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Guest Post: Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied
Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man
Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied
I was approached recently by a member of our Sovereign Man community who filed the paperwork to relinquish US citizenship some time ago. Long story short, after an incomprehensibly long wait, the US government finally sent him a reply: Application DENIED.
Absolutely shocking. That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting. That you cannot do so freely, and immediately, is nothing short of totalitarian.
It’s still an embryonic movement, though more and more US citizens are being driven to divorce their country. Last year nearly 1,600 people gave up US citizenship, up from 1,485 in 2010, 731 in 2009, and 226 in 2008.
While some renunciants have philosophical misgivings about being American, most do it for tax reasons. There’s a growing number of expats who, despite living abroad for years, are still paying huge portions of their income to Uncle Sam.
What’s more, the filing requirements are getting more and more onerous. US citizens living overseas have to keep up with all sorts of changes to the tax code that they may not be privy to, and the penalties for noncompliance are severe.
I can’t tell you how many friends I have who are US citizens living abroad that had no idea they were supposed to file the Report of Foreign Bank Account (FBAR) form every year; or the new FATCA form 8938; or those with businesses that must file form 8858 or 5471.
Usually these things come with pretty nasty penalties, possibly up to $10,000 per instance of failure to file.
Then there’s the latest, greatest tax target: accidental US citizens. This group consists of foreigners who happen to be dual nationals because they were born in the US or have an American parent.
These foreigners have spent their entire lives outside the US. They know absolutely nothing about US tax code. Now they’re getting Dear John letters from the US government saying-
“I see you are a US citizen but have never filed your taxes. Please enclose a check for the following absurd amount of money, which includes interest and penalties for the last 20-years…”
Such tactics smack of desperation… typical of the same sorts of cannibalistic moves that failing, bankrupt governments throughout history have exacted upon their people.
Citizenship is nothing more than accident of birth. Yet in the modern nation-state paradigm, governments lay claim to citizens from the time they’re born as if we’re property.
Children are saddled with obligations that they never signed up for– taxes, compulsory military service, a debilitating national debt, etc.
Most countries at least have procedures to voluntarily surrender citizenship for those who choose to opt out of the system; in the United States, it is contained in section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act.
The process usually takes place overseas at a US consulate– you have to fill out a series of forms, swear an oath in front of a government official, and eventually file a final tax return. Some people even have to pay a steep ‘exit tax’ on the value of their assets.
I know dozens who have done this, and from what my friends tell me, many of the consular officials attempt to impugn, insult, or otherwise intimidate people looking to surrender their citizenship. It’s their last-ditch effort to keep the milk cows from escaping the dairy farm.
For example, one official tried terrorizing a friend of mine last year in South Africa, saying, “This smells like TAX EVASION to me!”
Despite all the forms, the bureaucracy, and the intimidation tactics, I had never heard of a case where someone’s properly submitted ’application’ to surrender citizenship has been denied (bar Ken O’Keefe). Until now.
But in what may be the most distinguishing mark of a totalitarian state, the US government has now officially prevented someone from freely leaving the system. The Soviet Union comes to mind.
It certainly does make one wonder to what desperate lows they will sink to next.
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Thumbs up, people we want to get out should be kicked out. Where do they think it's better?
Yup.
And as for the Mexicans leaving, this is a cyclical issue due to very low # of jobs available. When times are good, locals dont wan't to work those $7/hr jobs whereas the Mexicans are eager to do so and still manage to love of that + send half back home for pesos.
You're both forgetting that our neightbors down south are victims of a cespol of corrupt scumbags who can't see beyong their own personal greed and the "almighty" dollar.
South America and Central America would be much better off if the world wasn't dollarized and if they adopted a new monetary system such as the Salinas-Price silver standard.
I'm sure that people in North Korea, Burma, and other third-world shitholes might still think that the U.S. is the promised land. Mexicans are getting smarter and more are leaving than coming in.
You like what's happening in the U.S.? I feel like I'm living in Germany in the 30's. Pretty soon the doors will slam shut and the prison will be from sea to shining sea.
Yeah contrary to widely held opionion, many of them come here to work.
Pretty soon? FEMA camps? Hahahha. Welcome to our world Pale Face.
Signed,
Chief Joseph, 1879
Yea...pretty soon. You can still leave the country, although no where are you out of reach.
I've been looking at places in South America, New Zealand, Australia, Asia, and Europe but the things holding me back are still stronger than the things making me want to go. I'll regret that decision in 5-10 years but I'll be part of the really big crowd regretting what becomes of us and US. I think East Germany will be the closest model of what our country will become. Beats North Korea but not where I want to be.
"In 1999, Mr. O’Keefe announced his intention to renounce his United States citizenship, and did so in March 2001, infuriating his government tormentors to an even greater degree, but remaining steadfast in his activist efforts (16). Ken, who was subjected to contaminated immunizations and pills during the Gulf War and who has relentlessly campaigned against the usage of depleted uranium (17), returned to Iraq and founded the Human Shield program in late 2002, where civilians from Western countries would place themselves in front of non-military targets to show solidarity with the Iraqi people in the face of an illegal occupation. Mr. O’Keefe was ultimately deported, as well as many other volunteers, and the humanitarian project had to be disbanded (18). To drive the point deeper into the US-Zionist trachea, that he wasn’t going to stop fighting for humanity, Ken O’Keefe burned his American passport on January 8, 2004 (19)."
Much Respect
http://www.maskofzion.com/2011/01/kenneth-okeefe-under-assault-in-defens...
States aren't allowed to secede from the Union (see Civil War), then certainly tax paying citizens cannot secede. Of course there is the old movie, Born in East LA, where the American-Mexican is deported and then needs to "illegally" cross the boarder. Might want to try that tact. Cross border into Mexico, lose all documentation, and then show up as an undocumented worker.
On 2nd thought, this is a bad idea as the IRS will be running Gitmo and will be water boarding US citizens to determine their social security number.
They have vays ov making you talk.
The conditioning continues. Remember the blood samples taken in the recent Hunger Games movie? Why are things like that put out? Prepare for the day when your blood sample will be your ID. Lose your documents? No problem! A simple prick of the finger will solve that problem in a flash...
what do you mean "denied." ?
you mean like tying to break up with Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZHe3GYQp_8
Will the application blend?
Renouncing your citizenship is very easy. It just has to be done the right way:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1481
Most applications that are denied are rejected because the applicant is trying to renounce citizenship and still maintain benefits.
MF
Even more reasons to kick'em out but the bag of clothes they carry
Stop being such a "homer". the ship is sinking
So what? Do you have a lifeboat? I Do!
Max's message: Everything is fine, everything will always be fine, the status quo is good, everyone who complains is crazy.
Max's real message: Stop wasting time on unapproved thoughts. Be enlightened and content with TPTB like I am.
Max, anyone can google "renounce citizenship" and see what the regs are. What the regs say, and what happens in the REAL WORLD, aren't always the same thing. Consider, for example, MF Global...
I want to have a business lunch with you, i love your thoughts .. you inspire me
you are so great, that i want to become you one day, you look like a bright graduate from the Ivyleagues.
is that you in the picture? I wish to see you one day.
From reading that, you don't even have to renounce, you just need to make an "affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state" - so, move to another country and enlist in their army, and you're out of the US citizenship.
What "benefits"???
For now, they just want our money. Wait until they start wanting to murder us!
Ragnar is that you?!
If anyone understands the vagaries of citizenship requirements it's President Wok The Dog.
Mr. Black, I enjoy reading your commentaries but without proper citations this could all be made up.
That you even have to ‘apply’ to relinquish what you never signed up for is intellectually insulting.
Backwards logic. If we follow this line of thinking citizenship is not a birthright but must be applied for. No thanks.
Leaving is easy, just load everything up on your Gulfstream 5, and you are outta here.
Here in Canada we were a little leery of having fleets of drones buzzing along our border, until we realized, they're not there to keep us out, but rather to keep Americans in.
Excellent remark. In So. Cal our interstate freeways now have border patrol checkpoints asking for citizenship. You can't even get close enough to the border (fence) anymore without Green Vans chasing you down making sure you don't get any closer to the fence.
I recently flew domestically for the first time in a while, and I was struck by the ever-increasing arrogance and impatience of the TSA, treating everyone like terrorists, as they herded us through the irradiation chamber. Check this out: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/18/tsa-missi...
Snippet: "The inspirational motto displayed at the TSA's air marshall training center since the agency's inception is: "Dominate. Intimidate. Control."
First currency controls, to make sure "your" money stays here, then control over your physical body. It's as American as cavity searches for unpaid parking tickets.
Harper signed the NAU act on February 8th 2011 which could very well put Canadians in the same boat as Americans:
A secretive agreement signed by U.S. President Barack Obama and Canadian minority Prime Minister Stephen Harper in Washington on Friday February 4 aims to remove Canada's sovereignty. The secretive deal between Obama and Harper will establish a new border AROUND Canada and the United States. And it will begin the work of REMOVING the border between Canada and the U.S. in order to form a new corporate controlled (fascist) America called the North American Union (NAU).
The North American Union (NAU) is an economic union of Canada, Mexico, and the United States. The concept is loosely based on the European Union, including a common currency called the Amero
United States big business want complete control of Canada's vast natural resources. Canada is the last remaining country on Earth with vast amounts of untapped natural resources. The deal was made to rob Canada and Canadians of its financial future. Greedy U.S. corporations have used up all remaining natural resource supplies in the United States so they have made a secret and very lucrative deal with Stephen Harper to sell out his country.
Stephen Harper is a traitor. He is working secretively with a foreign government to dissolve the country we know as Canada. The secretive negotiations are being done without the involvement of our Parliament, or the people of Canada or the United States. It is an undemocratic betrayal of all of us. It is an illegal act of treason.
When TPTB implode the US dollar and economies of both countries we could very well wake up the next day using the Amero and find ourselves subject to the same Totalitarian laws and government that are currently under construction in the US.
Learn more here.
As a Canadian I am ready to defend my country from this bullshit but I do have an exit strategy for the worst case scenario.
That's it. I'm gettin' my tinfoil hat. The neutrinos coming in from the full moon have reached maximum and we still have 11 more years of this to go.
Instead of ad hominem and juvenile comments try an intelligent rebuttle and some critical thinking...or at least something that is actually funny.
I'd cut him some slack for using 'neutrino'
What a freakin' load of tripe. This guy is so far off his meds, he needs a whole pharma plant to calm him down.
"Greedy U.S. corporations have used up all remaining natural resource supplies in the United States" - oh, yeah, that whole Bakken thing is empty. And there's no water or arable land left, either, so the US is going to need all of Canada's wheat and cows and polar bears.
Canada is the last remaining country on Earth with vast amounts of untapped natural resources. Yup. Chile, Brazil, Argentina? Nothing to see there, move along. The entire continent of Africa - oh that was sucked dry by the European terrori colonialists. Oz? The dingos ate everything.
Morons like this make me ashamed of Canada's educational system. He probably believes Harper eats babies, and Bambam doesn't eat dogs.
That's quite the attack, plenty of ad hominem, even some name calling and you didn't even rebuttle on the original argument of Canada being very close to having americans laws like NDAA and the National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order with NAU in place.
I actually didn't write the copy in the italics....and I agree it is lacking. Here is how I would write it:
"Greedy U.S. corporations have used up all remaining natural resource supplies in the United States" should read...
"Multi national corporations are trying to secure the remaining resource supplies globally and Canada is a primary target"
wheat and cows and polar bears<--WTF are you talking about here? Canada is loaded with metals, ores, precious metals, minerals, rare earth minerals and one of the largest supplies of fresh water.
"Canada is the last remaining country on Earth with vast amounts of untapped natural resources." I agree this line sucks too it should read
"Canada is one of the few remaining countries with vast swaths of uninhabited land full of untapped resources including one of the largest supplies of fresh water and minerals."
When you get personal attacks like these from people that fall into the strawman fallacy or just plain ad hominem you can bet your ass you are onto something...
Oh, bullshit. " Canada being very close to having americans laws like NDAA and the National Defense Resources Preparedness executive order" -
DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF FOR THIS ABSOLUTE PIECE OF CRAP? DO YOU HAVE THE SLIGHTEST EVIDENCE - AND I MEAN EVIDENCE, ASSHOLE, NOT YOUR SHIT FOR BRAINS OPINION - THAT THIS IS BEING CONSIDERED? I DIDN'T THINK SO.
THIS IS JUST LIKE THE LIBERAL SCAREMONGERING A FEW ELECTIONS AGO WHEN THEY RAN ADS ACCUSING THE TORIES OF PLANNING TO PUT "TROOPS. WITH GUNS. ON OUR STREETS", WHICH WAS JUST AS MUCH BULLSHIT AS WHAT YOU'RE SPEWING. YOU FUCKING ANTI-HARPER PEOPLE ARE ALWAYS READY WITH THE HYPERBOLIC AND NONSENSICAL ATTACKS ON A VERY SOLID AND REASONABLE POLITICIAN AND YOU NEVER HAVE A SINGLE PIECE OF EVIDENCE TO BACK UP YOUR FANTASY LAND CLAIMS.
GO BACK UNDER YOUR ROCK, AND ROLL AROUND IN THE PUFFIN SHIT WITH IGGY AND DION.
You can forget about NON-worst-case scenarios. The actual scenarios will be much worse than what you imagine is the worst-case scenario. Don't waste your time, effort and resources on any western country. They are all 100% controlled by the worst predators on the face of planet earth. Get the hell out of dodge, or get ready to go down with the ship.
PS: Beware exaggerations - they simply destroy your entire message for most people. When you say nowhere else has any resources, people can and do blow off your entire message, even though the basic point (the predators want to steal the resources) remains completely true.
You're totally right I pasted from another article without proofreading. Nobodies perfect so I offered updates in a reply on how I would have worded it.
I appreciate the contructive criticism thanks H!
You don't need drones to keep us out.
Black flies already do an excellent job!
If you look closely at how our court system and maritime law are constructed, you'll find indications we're under maritime law. Such as: when you're born, your mother's water breaks and you're "delivered" like goods off a ship. You get a "birth certificate" like a certificate of manifest from the "vessel" (your mother) that carried you. Your birth certificate is signed by the "dock" or doctor. So, your body is essentially a commodity from a vessel.
When you die you're a "corpse" or corp.; corporation. Your "corpse" get's taxed like goods off a ship. Essentially each body, each corp. is a cash FLOW instrument for TPTB (there's an indicating maritime law word..."flow", like water).
In the courts there are gates, which are called "flood gates". There's a piece of wood on the top of the gate called the "bar" which is the "sand bar" and since most people haven't "passed the bar" you need legal representation to help you "sink or swim".
It's all in the words that have been legalized for operation under maritime law.
I'm familar a little with the birth certificate and strawman issue. Question is, how do I refuse to participate in the corrupt D.C. system. Can't one just give up his or her Coporate Citizenship and just be a Natural Born Soverign? We're basically, born into their corrupt Ponzi, debt based system of Tryanny and Bondage.
You would have to obtain an application for duplicate birth certificate (BC) and complete it as if you are only representing the person specified on it. There is a part on the application which asks if the application is being completed by self, relative, ...., or other, IIRC. You would select "other" and then specify that other is an authorized agent for the name on BC. Then you would have to rescind most other signatures such as driver's license, voters card, social security, etc. In other words, you will have to eliminate every and all areas which you signed on as being contracted to Wash. DC. Even past hunting licenses can get you in trouble if you claim a "free man" status. The one thing that should be avoided is the term "Sovereign". Some of the Sovereigns were pretty brutal and have a bad name which can freak out the powers to be by designating them as possibly being dangerous. You can't say you are driving because driving is commercial and you must be licensed to do so just like cattle drivers driving cattle from say, Colorado to Texas back in the old days. You are only traveling which by law, one would have the right to do as long as you are not contracted with Washington DC in any way shape or form. I'm not even close to this yet and am just learning it all. The great thing about this is the fact all this is 100% backed by law and yes, income tax is unconstitutional and as long as you are not contracted with Wash. DC, you are exempt. Same with carrying a concealed weapon due to the 2nd amendment, etc. Now, don't get me wrong, if you do not say the exact proper words because laws are really just words and you must be able to properly define the words used in law. F up on the words and you could find one will end up in jail. This stuff can be very dangerous if you are not totally educated.
Once you're out of the system of debt bondage you no longer pay the illegal, unconstitutional Income Tax. It's all about keeping their Ponzi Scheme going.
Chumbawumba is calling you to the general chat room.
Did the applicant have evidence of a second citizenship to fall back on? I'd bet that there are laws & treaties about not stripping people of citizenship if they would become "stateless persons" as a consequence. Maybe this doofus forgot to get his Central African Republic papers in order before he mailed his shredded passport to the U.S. embassy in Conakry....
The usa is a toilet bowl full of corruption, murder, and larceny but at least we have a toilet.
When they ask you “how do you plea?” they are attempting to CONTRACT with your LEGAL FICTION,STRAWMAN,ALL CAPS NAME VERSION OF YOU. From my research some people have been successful with “I don’t plea, wish to contract.”I demand common law jurisdiction, I waive all benefits.” Don’t let them plea for you, they cant, only you or you representative can. All courts are CONTRACT COURTS, AND JUDGES ARE EXECUTIVE ADMINISTRATORS OF THE CORPORATION,NOT JUDGES.
Yes, We need to go back to a De Jure form of government. We have been under a De Facto type government since 1871 and the place named Washington D.C. rules under this De Facto govt. and we are all slaves to this. Also, since 1933, the United States govt. has deemed the U.S. citizens as their enemy of war and also claimed a bankrupt status. Yes, our government has been deemed officially bankrupt since 1933. Our birth certificates are a surety against this incredible debt and the Federal Reserve Notes are not real wealth but is the opposite.
My advice to you is, if you need to appear in court, hire a competent attorney, who won't spout this B.S. and get you into serious trouble. Judges get really, really pissed when you try to overturn the legal structure via oral argument. Fact of Life #3, right behind Death and Taxes.
Agreed. If you go spouting off about admiralty you're gonna end up with a negative outcome.
higher CPI indicating the coming bond selloffs?
http://capital3x.com/think-tank/is-german-and-us-inflation-projecting-th...
which means Gold to let it rip?
.
No, it means zonetraders is shoveling more crapital3x shit.
Isn't that called bondage?
I don't feel like a penquin...
Well, then under the proposed rule to prevent those w/tax debts (over $50k) from leaving - that means the U.S. will actually "own" endentured servants.
I can't believe our representatives think that this rule is ok. WTF?
And they laughed at Ron Paul when he said the U.S. was building a virtual prison....
Any illegal will buy his identity and actually happily switch identity with him.
How true.
Of course they would, because they know the bills, when they come, will not be paid. They will not be paying the taxes with that false SSN number either.
All one has to do is to apply for citizenship of an African or Asian country. You'll automatically be stripped off your US citizenship.
People like you Mr.Black are in minority. Far more people want to come into the US than leave US.
Not anymore.
Young men in Mexico say the U.S. no longer offers them a better future http://investmentwatchblog.com/young-men-in-mexico-say-the-u-s-no-longer...No, that's not true. There are still plenty of freebies in Califas. I hear San Francisco will even buy you a bus ticket and have representatives on the bus to sign you up for all the stipends. Free everything in California. Go there, get some. Also free citizenship and selective service cards. Yee haaaa.
Welcome to the Hotel California.
A little tid bit of facts to my above post for one to look up and verify. Most of us are contracted with Wash D.C via our birth certificate (straw man) (All capital letters "TRADE NAME" as is on your driver's license). Most are then considered "vessels" under admiralty law, and also a prize in war (war was officially declared against American citizens by the United States Government under FDR in the Amendatory Act of March 9, 1933 (a/k/a Emergency Banking Relief Act) to the Trading With the Enemy Act of October 6, 1917. Prize on land is called "booty" ie: government fines, confiscation, fees, taxes, etc.
Folks, this stuff is not taught to our students of law. We have been the subjects to a total Ponzi scheme ever since 1871. I now understand why all the unconstitutional acts that have been taking place for over a hundred years now. Washington DC is totally under a De Facto form of govt. and are not bound to the De Jure govt. which is totally based on the constitution and in play before the civil war.
Talk about oaths! Attorney's take an oath to the courts and one being represented by an attorney is deemed a ward of the court. This De Facto govt. is generally based on prima facie evidence as opposed to true fact evidence, IIRC. One who can crack the code, so to speak, could trump this prima facie evidence with true fact evidence and until we understand what has happened to us, I am sad to say we will perrish as a republic.
One should avoid entering a court room like the plague. One representing the birth certificate (straw man) ie: the non Washington DC contracted authorized agent, authorized signer, auth. rep., etc. to the straw man can enter an appearance on the straw man's behalf by properly filing a document which specifies that no plea is entered. This process then verifys that the straw man is not deemed by the court or judge to be incompetent and without representation to where this judge can plea on their behalf. This presentation or entering of a "no plea" stymies the judge and court because they do not have a contract on the straw man resulting in a limbo status.
They real key to all this would be for one to completely cut all the contracts with Wash. D.C. in order to totally remain out of their jurisdiction. You are domiciled in the Republic of California as opposed to the State of California which is domiciled in Wash. DC. Orange county as opposed to County of Orange which is domiciled in Wash. D.C., etc. I could go on and on but, I know you get my drift. It is also imperative that one be sure that all ties to Wash. D.C. are cut otherwise, if they find out you have a signature contracted to one of their contracts, they will burn you.
Chumbawamba is pretty well-versed on this subject and, from what I understand, is apparently putting together a series of articles (to be posted here at ZH) explaining the steps to take to disentangle oneself from the federal corporate government's control matrix. I don't know how he's progressing, but he's in the ZH chat room on a pretty regular basis if you want to ask him about it.
If nothing else, Chumba'll make you laugh.
Here is the practical problem with your approach. I believe you are essentially correct in just about everything you say... as a matter of historical fact. However, why does this history exist? The answer is this: the people of the country would have hung every individual in the entire federal government if they understood what was being done to them.
The practical (not theoretical) problem with all your facts is this. The predators-that-be have done all you mention to avoid being hung long enough to implement an overwhelming police state.
The increasingly egregious behavior of the predators-that-be makes it completely clear they are no longer afraid of revolution. They believe, with good reason, that their legions of jack-booted-thugs at every level is more than sufficient to put down any attempt to unseat them, or force them back to any reasonable form of "real or semi-legitimate government" (however you wish to characterize that, given the fact that "governments" are inherently fiction and therefore REQUIRE "consent to be government" from EVERY individual, and revokable by the individual at any moment).
The fact is, mankind is finished. Given the rapid advancement of military, surveillance and police state technologies, earth is now a permanent slave planet, with only minor details left to be implemented at this point. I do admit that the predators-that-be and predator-class could still be overthrown, but this would require that a substantial number of humans WAKE-THE-FRACK-UP, understand what has happened and what is happening, and eliminate the predators. However, that is not happening. By the time the few individuals who are partially awake (anarchists, libertarians, RonPaul supporters, etc) realize the predators will not back down in response to verbal complaints and "voting"... it will be vastly too late.
So the practical problem with your ideas is this. The predators-that-be and predator-class are now at the point where they will no longer be constrained by people taking advantage of [what they'll call] "technicalities" in the law. They will have you locked away forever or shot. The time for looking at old papers has long passed. I am very impressed that people like you, RobMenard and others have deconstructed what you have. But I am sad to say, it will not save us. Like all predators, the current ones can only be stopped by cages and/or weapons. Period. They will not stop voluntarily. Of that you can be certain.
'The Soviet Union comes to mind.' Russian Troops To Target Terrorists in America As Part of Drill
Tried to give up my virginity once. Application denied.
I feel you, dog. My virginity was taken from me. I have never recovered from that hour removing the stain from my parents couch. I became a lesbian and will love women unto my dying breath.
Don't leave! Maria Bartiromo just said that THIS market is moving on fundamentals!
I flushed my fundementals this morning and am baking up some more.
She is a nasty whore.
National Security is deception/Illusion to hide the fact that we are Slaves of the Coporate Banking Global Elite. They have set up a Police State to protect THE UNITED STATES CORPORATION. Ever wonder why your name is in CAPITAL letters on your birth certificate. Yes, unknowingly we've all been given away at birth to debt bondage and slavery to a "strawman". Research it.
It is not the duty of the police to protect you. Their job is to protect the Corporation and arrest code breakers. Sapp v. Tallahasee, 348 So. 2nd. 363, Reiff v. City of Philadelphia, 477 F.Supp. 1262, Lynch v. N.C. Dept of Justice 376 S.E. 2nd. 247.
The FCC, CIA, FBI, NASA and all of the other alphabet gangs were never part of the United States government. Even though the “US Government” held shares of stock in the various Agencies. (U.S. V. Strang , 254 US 491, Lewis v. US, 680 F.2d, 1239)
Social Security Numbers are issued by the UN through the IMF. The Application for a Social Security Number is the SS5 form. The Department of the Treasury (IMF) issues the SS5 not the Social Security Administration. The new SS5 forms do not state who or what publishes them, the earlier SS5 forms state that they are Department of the Treasury forms. You can get a copy of the SS5 you filled out by sending form SSA-L996 to the SS Administration. (20 CFR chapter 111, subpart B 422.103 (b) (2) (2) Read the cites above)
The IRS is not a U.S. Government Agency. It is an Agency of the IMF. (Diversified Metal Products v. IRS et al. CV-93-405E-EJE U.S.D.C.D.I., Public Law 94-564, Senate Report 94-1148 pg. 5967, Reorganization Plan No. 26, Public Law 102-391.)
The IMF is an Agency of the UN. (Blacks Law Dictionary 6th Ed. Pg. 816)
The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF. (Presidential Documents Volume 29-No.4 pg. 113, 22 U.S.C. 285-288)
And finally,
There are no Judicial courts in America and there has not been since 1789. Judges do not enforce Statutes and Codes. Executive Administrators enforce Statutes and Codes. (FRC v. GE 281 US 464, Keller v. PE 261 US 428, 1 Stat. 138-178)
Take a breath, man.
It's a complex world we live in and I have no sympathy for these rats abandoning ship when we need them the most. Step up Americans. Organize, have voter registration block parties then vote and give back to this insane government what it is giving to us.
The only cure for contempt is counter-contempt. The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.
H. L. Mencken.
God Bless America and RICO the banksters and their whore republicrats in D.C.
@ Turtle,
Inhaling, slowly exhaling. AMEN to that brother. Let's RICO their asses.
Does US citizens get taxes while living abroad? Thats insane...
Waste of time attempting to renounce something that doesn't exist. It's just another form of wrestling with pigs. Their only legitimacy comes from the barrel of a gun, and they know it.
New answer to the ? "What's in the safe?": Legitimacy by the case.
"Superman Renounces U.S. Citizenship, Flies To Iran"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNIoJyNlJ90
The way to do it is to form your own cult, then cry "religious persecution" when you're taking your 15th wife or whatever the powers in charge frown upon.....
Worked when we ditched England circa 1776.....
Didn't work so well for a lot of Germans circa 1944 tho- hmmm....
The fact that one can draw these parallels says it all......
Didn't help Vernon down in Waco.
Exactly- you leave FIRST, don't wait to get kicked out- they'll wave you bon voyage...
Ah, finally the voice of reason. Just go live where you want. Don't ask for permission to leave. Good little doggie.
I'd leave myself but I haven't figured out where it's better.
Vat!? You do not vant to be a member of the Facikleptoligarchy!?
Your choice is DENIED!
In other words; OBEY! (and alvays carry your paperz!)
the federal govts tax rights are limited to it's tax treaties, under foreign law you may be eligible to renounce US (foreign) citizenship and get new state recognition residency and citizenship from a new state without the prior state's permission.
If state's do have a "right of claim" to citizens that "right" would also extend to foreign states, and would exclude citizen "poaching" or giving citizenship to another state's citizens.
If such "state citizen ownership right exists" then Obama is at a minimum a "dual citizen" or foreign national.
Would someone please point out where it contains the requirement for a final fleecing:
http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-1...
At least all that money we spent building the fence along the Mexican/US border will be good for something! Silly me, I thought it was to keep them out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-bJ9V7U428
They already presume the sovereign right to strip us, detain us, rob us, declare us personae non gratae, and kill us without a trial. Should it be any surprise that they won't allow us to wander off the plantation unescorted? So, sensational headline, though it sounds like an issue with a specific consulate, however without full details there is no telling what is going on. Find it supremely ironic that the country that fought to break the bonds of perpetual allegiance now favors them stealthily reinstated.
Something tells me the finale is gonna be killer. [quiver]
What does china bot guy have to say about this? US Citizenism is...undeniable???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ0up_MjsLk
I was just mentioning the fact that, in this case, now that the person has been ''denied'', this means the U.S. Government is now liable for any and all expenses for said person, commensurate to their life style, as in the case of divorce. There are, also, grounds for the return of all taxes ever paid, with interest. Failure to pay, or comply with the reverse side of the same law would demand enforcement. In the case against the U.S. Government all employees would be subject to capture and death.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBml1XZDg3w
...of course you realize, this means war. LMAO
You know things are bad when even would-be illegal aliens from the south don't even want to come here.
Fascist Gov't Inc. comes with one move -- eat the people.
Is this some sort of joke, no one needs to apply to revoke citizenship.
First of all there are no citizens of the united states. One reason is no one takes an oath of allegaince and even if they did there can not be allegiance to a corporation. There can only be allegiances between men.
See Calvins Case It is a complete run down of the law of allegiance and is binding on the courts. It is cited in over 400 federal cases.
http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=911&chapter=106337&layout=html&Itemid=27
"In fide, in faith or ligeance nothing ought to be feigned, but ought to be ex fide non ficta"
Secondly , the courts have held that the US can not deny expatriation for any reason. They have also said that the best proof of renunciation of citizenship (their legal fiction version of course) is allegiance to another.
The courts can not resolve politcal questions. Allegiance is a political election and no gov't has the power to determine it. PERIOD.
That all being said I don't know what to make of this article. Someone is being manipulated or lied to.
I don't want a divorce from the US because I seen a lot of the world and it sucks hard. But if our govenrment keeps this up I will meet you all in Texas and you can shut lights off when you leave US
Think I'll just stick around the plantation and be hemorrhoidal in my intent.
Not wanting to be a member of a country that won't let you go?
This is simply the end point of Marxist politics.
Groucho Marx, that is.
Tyler,
What is going on. I have been away with my computer shut off for three hours and new articles here show that there is a difference between the new comment and comments numbers. I have noticed this before. Who is accessing my account?
dogbreath
The 'new comments' numbers have been unusable/nonsensical for me since the new 'features' were added a while back.
I suspect it's a bug that is somehow related to why Sac hasn't reinstated the 'track' functionality.
thanks, but that doesn't explain that I can read an article and the new comments remains the same as the comments and stays that way. the shit worked before.
its great being a dog ay!
We don't know the details, and Simon Black is known to embellish. His $40 hamburger farce comes to mind. Perhaps the application was denied because the form was incomplete, and all the applicant has to do is fill it out correctly? We don't know. Do Tell Simon.
the united states is a totalitarian nazi state. this denial is in no way shocking.
Corporations are soverign, individuals are not. Individuals attached to corporations by employment or ownership share some of the unlimitied rights of soverignty, with of course the higher ups getting the most.
This is the most imporant idea extant. It trancends politics as the driver of socitey, culture, events and governance itself. Corporations are becoming ever more sovergn. This is the arrow of history. You can like it or hate it but there is nothing you can do about it. Governments are more and more either co opted by corporations or corporations simply replace government. So while the vast majority here decry government they fail to realize that there is a new boss. Will it be a better one? Who knows?
To speak of US corporations or German ones is absurd. Multi national corporations are trans national. Of course the vast majority of corporations are small and embedded in national systems but at any moment the big corporations can buy them, if the so desire, and make that corporation part of something global.
Still it is best to be an American because America is going to be the defacto home of the most powerful gigantic corporations, and the wealth that follows. So too America will become the physical home of more and more of the worlds wealthy and so the political sphere will do more and more to aid corporate soverignty in a virtuous circle.
Be a company man and accept the embrace of the corporation, or alternately the security state aparatus and military, or be nothing. An individual, alone, is nothing.
Corporations are soverign, individuals are not. Individuals attached to corporations by employment or ownership share some of the unlimitied rights of soverignty, with of course the higher ups getting the most.
This is the most imporant idea extant. It trancends politics as the driver of socitey, culture, events and governance itself. Corporations are becoming ever more sovergn. This is the arrow of history. You can like it or hate it but there is nothing you can do about it. Governments are more and more either co opted by corporations or corporations simply replace government. So while the vast majority here decry government they fail to realize that there is a new boss. Will it be a better one? Who knows?
To speak of US corporations or German ones is absurd. Multi national corporations are trans national. Of course the vast majority of corporations are small and embedded in national systems but at any moment the big corporations can buy them, if the so desire, and make that corporation part of something global.
Still it is best to be an American because America is going to be the defacto home of the most powerful gigantic corporations, and the wealth that follows. So too America will become the physical home of more and more of the worlds wealthy and so the political sphere will do more and more to aid corporate soverignty in a virtuous circle.
Be a company man and accept the embrace of the corporation, or alternately the security state aparatus and military, or be nothing. An individual, alone, is nothing.
Individuals are sovereign. Corporations DO NOT EXIST.
Even in fundamental law, all organizations are called "fictitious entities". These laws were written when humans were not quite as completely brain damaged, when pretty much everyone understood that nothing real POPs into existence when a group of people sit around a table and say "let's collaborate to establish a bakery"... or a "government".
All that exists in the realm people talk about all day is:
predators DBA government
predators DBA corporations
predators DBA organizations
The predators exist. They are real, living, physical entities. The so-called "governments" and "corporations" and "organizations" LITERALLY do not exist. They are "fictitious entities", just like "SantaClaus". This should not be difficult for humans to understand --- in previous generations regular folks did understand. To not be able to distinguish real from fiction is the most fundamental and extreme form of insanity. Wake up and get real. Otherwise you are insane.
Individual soverignty is worth nothing. Not in wealth or power or freedom from the long arm of the law if it happens to point to you. Unlike everyone who has skated in the financial meltdown, or the war fiascos. Now to be fair someone who keeps their nose clean and finds a way to make a living can leave what he or she things is a good life. Just don't pretend it is a soverign one. To start kings were soverign and so across the world cultures that left tribal organization models developed, Then governments, democratic to aome degree or totalitarian became soverign. Individuals were never soverign in a sense worth anything, anything big that is. Now corporations are becoming soverign. Excatly why do you think MF Global/Corzine has played out as it has, or banks essentiall stealing homes from individuals. If they came after your home you wouldnt stand a chance.
Don't spew that "long arm of the law" bullshit. There is no "law" and there is no "government". However, I made completely clear that predators do exist. When a predator shoots a bullet through your brain, it matters ZERO whether that predator claims to "work for government" or not. You are dead either way.
Thus, you are INSANE to claim that "a man with a gun" proves "government exists". That's so stupid as to be childs play.
To say "sovereign individual" is the same as "individual", except it makes clear that you are not a "subject" or "slave" of any fictitious entity. This should be clear to everyone, but obviously in the modern world most humans have no freaking idea "government is fiction". So the few of us who are not insane need some way to state that "we are our own masters", that "we are not slaves of any predator DBA <insert-organization-name>". We are ourselves, and we are only responsible for ourselves. That's all "sovereign" means, and that's all sovereign can mean.
If your brain thinks corporations are "something real", you are FINISHED. You might as well flush your brain down the toilet, because it is now completely worthless to you.
The reason MFG and Corzine "played out the way it did" is obvious. He is a high-level predator in cohoots with other high-level predators. Unlike most "regular folks", the predators collaborate with each other, because they get a LOT more results that way. Which is exactly what you pointed out, isn't it?
The predators get away with the egregious rip-offs and abuses they do because billions of morons like you believe "government is real", and "corporations are real", and you do not understand that ALL that exists is predators DBA governments and corporations. As long as you and most humans are that stupid, you indeed "stand no chance".
Nail
Head
HIT!
This is the fallacy inherent the notion that real individuals need or should "apply" for anything from utterly fictional, non-existent, non-entities (governments and every other type of organization).
Just post an announcement in a large newspaper stating "I am not a citizen of the USSA" (or other country/government). No real, physical, living individual needs permission or approval from any
predators DBA government
predators DBA corporations
predators DBA central banks
predators DBA other organizations
Just post your notice, leave, and live your life. And "good riddens" to the predators DBA federal government of the USSA.
Reblogged here: http://talonspoint.wordpress.com/2012/04/26/you-are-not-allowed-the-libe...
Thanks for sharing this article. While I have no interest in relinquishing my citizenship the ability to do so is a good barometer of the existence of liberty...or in this case the lack thereof.
As an atheist I probably believe in one less god than most.
I don't believe in Zeus or Apollo.
i don't believe that Jupiter and Mars are gods.
I don't believe in Odin or Thor.
Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy and The Easter bunny are also off my list too.
Show me some evidence please.
It's your patriotic duty to be a tax slave.
Having Canadian and European passports, I made a final decision: I am never going to have an american wife.
Having a Canadian and European passport, and having had 2 wives, I've decided never to have another wife - period.
In this case, the passport is not an issue!
LOL
No objections whatsoever.
So long as she has a vague birth certificate she may or may not qualify to be President...
My people came to America years ago for a "better life". They go that. Now I'm here, there aren't any jobs and even though I did everything "right" and went to college like I was supposed to (and racked up a ton of debt in the process) I'm still not finding the prosperity. Where do I sign up to "sign out"?
I don't know what I find funnier, the column or the twisted logic of the commentors. It's really pretty easy to renounce your citizenship, unless your objective is to expatriate money without paying taxes. If that's your game, then it's not about citizenship, it's about tax fraud. I'm shocked, i gotta tell you, to discover that this government, hail, any government, frowns on tax fraud. Simply shocking stuff! Hey, where do the smart people go these days. Looks like they left this site about a year or so after they left Deninger.
because the global banking racketeering ring isn't and hasn't been committing fraud against US taxpayers. gotcha.
Man Tries To Relinquish US Citizenship. Application Denied
I don't believe it at all; this is impossible. To deny a renunciation, maybe, but not a relinquishment. Unless the person had no other citizenship or expatriating act (did not qualify under the constitution).
Please provide Name, name of embassey where he tried to relinquish, circumstances, and any evidence to support your claim?
No?
Thought so. This is bogus.
Go to SovereignMan.com and ask those questions lao.
Black will probably provide details...that is....unless you don't want to follow up.
ZH you lost me at, "sovereign citizen"; do you mean these sovereign citizen? ref below-- first, my attitude is rise up and bring down the banks and these losers (current leaders, banksters, bailed out CEOs, etc) – i.e. the ones who are driving the world into the ground; but if you mean "sovereign citizens" – ZH—don’t waste your time with these freaks-- these people are just plain stupid and are nothing more than a distraction from what we need to focus on to make things better:
The sovereign citizen movement is a loose grouping of American litigants, commentators, and financial scheme promoters, classified as an "extremist anti-government group" by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation.[1]
Self-described sovereign citizens take the position that they are answerable only to common law and are not subject to any statutes or proceedings at the federal, states or municipal levels, or that they do not recognize U.S. currency and that they are "free of any legal constraints."[2][3][4]
They especially reject most forms of taxation as illegitimate.[5] Participants in the movement argue this concept in opposition to "federal citizens" who, they say, have unknowingly forfeited their rights by accepting some aspect of federal law.[6]
In a 2010 publication, the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) estimated that approximately 100,000 Americans are "hard-core sovereign believers" and another 200,000 are "just starting out by testing sovereign techniques for resisting everything from speeding tickets to drug charges."[7]
History
The concept of a sovereign citizen originated in the Posse Comitatus movement as a teaching of Christian Identity minister William P. Gale. The concept has influenced the tax protester movement, the Christian Patriot movement, and the redemption movement—the last of which includes claims that the U.S. government uses its citizens as collateral against foreign debt.[6]
Gale identified the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution as the act that converted sovereign citizens into federal citizens by agreeing to a contract to accept benefits from the federal government. Other commentators have identified other acts, including the Uniform Commercial Code,[8] the Emergency Banking Act,[8] the Zone Improvement Plan,[9] and the alleged suppression of the Titles of Nobility Amendment.[10]
Many of those in the movement consider the term "sovereign citizen" an oxymoron, preferring to view themselves as sovereign individuals "seeking the Truth".[11]
[edit] Theories about sovereign citizens
Sovereign-citizen leader Richard McDonald has established State Citizen Service Centers around the United States. Writing in American Scientific Affiliation, Dennis L. Feucht describes McDonald's theory, which claims that there are two classes of citizens in America: the "original citizens of the states" (or "States citizens") and "U.S. citizens." McDonald asserts that U.S. citizens or "Fourteenth Amendment citizens" have civil rights,
legislated to give the freed black slaves after the Civil War rights comparable to the unalienable constitutional rights of white state citizens. The benefits of U.S. citizenship are received by consent in exchange for freedom. State citizens consequently take steps to revoke and rescind their U.S. citizenship and reassert their de jure common-law state citizen status. This involves removing one's self from federal jurisdiction and relinquishing any evidence of consent to U.S. citizenship, such as a Social Security number, driver's license, car registration, use of ZIP codes, marriage license, voter registration, and birth certificate. Also included is refusal to pay state and federal income taxes because citizens not under U.S. jurisdiction are not required to pay them. Only residents (resident aliens) of the states, not its citizens, are income-taxable, state citizens argue. And as a state citizen land owner, one can bring forward the original land patent and file it with the county for absolute or allodial property rights. Such allodial ownership is held "without recognizing any superior to whom any duty is due on account thereof" (Black's Law Dictionary). Superiors include those who levy property taxes or who hold mortgages or liens against the property.[12]
--wikipedia
Great post Tyler. I shared this story yesterday on here. Glad to know ZH reads Simon Black.
A great blog.
BB
Fine. Get the f$ck out you bloody cowards and take your stinking money with you. You are no different than the bankers and the politicians.
No, just get the fuck out, leave the valuables behind, they are only in existence because of the freedom and power of the nation you want to fuck over, without the USA you would be eating shit with the chickens and poking through garbage dumps for recyclables. You get to get rich or fail trying or just coast, whatever suits you here, if you are not rich it is your own failing not because taxes were too high. Pay up or get out, just stop fucking whining you spoiled little brats.
"Usually these things come with pretty nasty penalties, possibly up to $10,000 per instance of failure to file."
Close... the nasty part of the penalty is FIFTY PERCENT of the MAXIMUM value the account had during the year you failed to file. There is no shame... none.
Citizenship ? You could be British but if the US wants you you are extradited without trial or prima facie evidence to the US "justice" system so choose to be German which refuses to extradite its Citizens except under an EU Arrest Warrant......
This story is suspicious for the gaps in it's facts. Any US citizen can easily renounce citizenship and there is no application process or denial or appeal. The laws and regulations are specific and clear, you just have to be outside the USA and surrender your passport to a US consular official in any American embassy along with a sworn and notarized and witnessed affidavit as to your intentions. You will probably be informed of the consequences of this action and asked to sign a statement that you understand what you are doing and the once done there is no power on the planet that can ever undo it. That your chances of EVER setting foot in the country again are about as good as winning the Powerball, unless you are here after extradition for trial on charges you might well be leaving behind. Go to Mexico or Canada and walk into any US consular office and do it, just stop whining about the nation and fucking leave already. I suspect the person above is great at making theater but never did have any intention of actually stabbing the nation in the back for his own person exceptional greed. Just a raging attention seeker with personality problems, and very possibly just made up by the author.
I was thinking of asking "Are you fucking nuts?" but then I realized I didn't need to ask.
It would appear that you think the USSA is a beacon of what is good in the world.
That's why I knew I didn't need to ask.
The country is nuts, you even have to fill out a form to leave your mothers womb.... no seriously, you can't even see or speak a word yet and there they are taking your biometric signature footprint on a birth certificate....
8 hours after your born they are floating a bond on the market betting on how much tax revenue you will generate for the state over your working life.
It's really sick, the hardly born are being sold on the open markets like cattle so that the govt can float bonds.
Wouldn't surprise me if they had a "tax slave futures market" for the unborn or even non-consieved unborn.
They are likely working on some kind of derivitive based on the average number of kids people have after marriage...
as soon as that's in place they will be able to use the number of marriage certificates as collateral on something or other..
Creative banking!
You two drama queens need to grow the fuck up!
Shame there's no secondary market in US citizenship - we could see how the price was doing.
& some people (need I say Bo Xilai) would probably find it very handy :p
Wall street has been missing a big opportunity. As soon as you are conceived, not even born -- your future value to the IRS/IMF should be securitized and hypothecated 1000x in leverage.
That should keep the ponzi going a few more decades. Then they can securitize every sperm, and then every atom of every sperm... Let AIG sell the CDS on that.