Guest Post: MF Global - A Fractal In A Frying Pan

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Sun, 11/20/2011 - 10:54 | 1895564 wrs
wrs's picture

Nice post, how was I first?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:29 | 1895624 spiral_eyes
Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:33 | 1895634 Manthong
Manthong's picture

I seem to recall Fleck commenting in a KWN piece not too long ago that he had money in BAC and was not worried about it.


Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:05 | 1895696 strannick
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Few of us will escape the consequences of participation in the financial system. It is both broken and corrupt. Our “inability to get to our money” is going to cascade into each other’s lives, blowing up all kinds of relationships. We must keep our eyes and ears peeled for stories from multiple perspectives. This is why we read ZH.

-This is why we read ZH

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:31 | 1895739 trav7777
trav7777's picture

MFG isn't the first...Reserve Primary, anyone?  JFC, that was locked up for months and it was supposed to be a cash equivalent.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:09 | 1895933 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Primary reserve fund broke the buck on Lehman paper. It was locked up for over a year...

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:11 | 1896079 knukles
knukles's picture





got inside information from TPTB?

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 01:01 | 1897636 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am cutting in here because I know you will forgive me.

Thanks to everyone who commented, positive and negative. It would not be fight club without both.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 01:06 | 1897650 knukles
knukles's picture

Well done.

Wed, 04/18/2012 - 00:27 | 2353708 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

BOP knows and respects Missy. Very nice indeed... 

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 09:52 | 1898092 Willzyx
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Primary Reserve was a case illiquidity.  When you say breaking the buck, you are talking about a 3 cent / dollar haircut on cash reserves.  Sure, the funds were tied up and redemptions were frozen, but all you really had to do was hold the rest of its securities to maturity to get back 97% of investor funds.

MF Global on the other hand was insolvent.  The money is gone.  Period.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 20:37 | 1897036 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

MF Global definitely isn't the only one and there are more to come trust me.  Things are falling apart, and what the system is doing is feeding on itself to prolong itself for a few days more.  When a system is down to that it's almost gone.  Individuals who thought there money was safe where wrong.  People who thought things couldn't happen, where wrong.  Even if there was money to bail this whole mess out, it still wouldn't work.  Because they are now being told or realizing that no society on this planet has been able to print/devalue their currency and still maintainn it's status.  The insidious trap to debt or currency monetization is to not do it in the first place.  Once you do it, it ensares you by saying print just a little more, a little more.  It's always just out of reach and then you look down and see the ground coming up at you fast.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 03:23 | 1897769 Xanadu_doo
Xanadu_doo's picture

"...saying print just a little more, a little more.  It's always just out of reach and then you look down and see the ground coming up at you fast...."


Pass the frickin' crack pipe -- I need to keep chasing the dragon, BITCHEZ.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:07 | 1895927 margaris
margaris's picture

So say we all!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:54 | 1896031 Westcoastliberal
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Yes and ZH always delivers.  Thanks Tyler!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 17:08 | 1896404 Pegasus Muse
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Celente has an interview from several days ago up on KingWorldNews.  He turns in an Oscar winning performance in the categories of Best Rant and Righteous Indignation.  Classic Celente:  

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:20 | 1895725 SRSrocco
SRSrocco's picture


Gerald has made the interview circut on his MF Global fiasco.  He was on Financial Sense this weekend along with Erik Townsend.  Erik also got screwed on his oil futures when the market dropped from $115 down to $75 back in May.  Townsend describes how he had protected himself with puts and knew the price of oil would be coming down, but he noticed his account was showing liquidations.

He called his broker and they told them that they were liquidating his puts to cover his longs.  He told his broker that he was making a lot of money on his puts and they didn't need to liquidate the contracts.  The broker tells him that according to some hidden rule in the contract his account was showing a negative on his longs.... so they had to sell his puts to make good.

Erik decides to sell his longs a at loss to get out of the situation, but he was unable to do so because of this same insane stipulation in his contract.  He lost over $200,000 on this trade and explains the whole thing and how he is now deciding not to go back in the futures markets at all.

I highly recommend listening to this interview:

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:49 | 1895773 T1000
T1000's picture

If you think you can take all you money out now and be safe, you may be wrong, dead wrong.

They can clawback your money that you withdrew, even if "organic", back TWO years!

"The Madoff trustee sued the New York Mets owners demanding withdrawals made as long as six years before the bankruptcy, before a judge restricted him to a two-year window. The Mets owners are fighting the remaining demands"

How far back will these criminals "clawback" time to get your funds? They wanted to go back six years in the Madoff case. 

I ain't afraid of no ghosts, bitches. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:52 | 1895776 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Molon Labe.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:14 | 1895819 Harlequin001
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I place my investments through offshore companies held in trust. Any clawback and the company is history.

I keep my money...

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 16:40 | 1896325 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Yea like G Celente had GLD cos it could not happen to him , once your money is out of the account its gone.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:24 | 1896113 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

clawbacks don't work if they don't know where to dig

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:38 | 1896155 been there done that
been there done that's picture

Great, then we should also be able to "Claw Back" Banker bonuses and alleged profits going back 10 years.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:50 | 1895774 cocoablini
cocoablini's picture

Celente whines about the whiteshoed boys but at the same time wants to make easy money playing their game. Except they changed the rules of the game for their benefit. dUH!
We need to remove all our money from brokerages since its only SIPC insured and basically insolvent. Not federal but private insured. duh. Broker investment houses need to burn.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:15 | 1895820 jcaz
jcaz's picture

Yeah, cause "Federal" insured is gonna be sooo much safer....


Mon, 11/21/2011 - 03:25 | 1897770 Xanadu_doo
Xanadu_doo's picture

More like "D'oh!"

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 05:43 | 1897853 w a l k - a w a y
w a l k - a w a y's picture



"D'oh!" is a catchphrase used by the fictional character Homer Simpson . . .

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:58 | 1895912 oldman
oldman's picture

Anyone who witnessed the failed Hunt play on silver saw the rules changed, but there was little said of this. This oldman was so outraged by this that he dropped out of the market he loved, commodities, and went to trading munis. It was a good decision because a lot of people who said he was mad ion 1981, thought he was a genius by 1984; but no one knew that he had lost interest and faith in the sysytem and had been only a lucky fool.

When everyone knows the future and talks about that and nothing more, it is time to move on---he is getting that sense now. Only a fool would begin nibbling at banks in the middle of a collapse.

wish me luck, dudes        om

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:48 | 1895998 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Yeah...I caught that interview as well. It was quite good.

The Clif Notes:

Rules can get made up and 'jiggered' however the CME and it's Clearing Members see fit...and at any given time. They are no longer a non-for-profit and accountable entity. My mind quickly moves to what Henry Kiss and Rothschild said about controlling the money flow/'s their tool to garner CONTROL.

This is a nice missive from MsCreant...too bad she is preaching to the choir.

Most of the people that visit this place understand MMT and the scam being run behind the scenes. Unfortunately...we reside in the minority. I've turned lots of people onto places like this where they can get a view of the underbelly of the beast that enslaves them. I'm guessing that about 1 % of those people have the mental capacity, attention span, and level of education to absorb and process the material.

When you watch the Occupy Movements....every 3rd or fourth word from the unhappy protesters seems to be the "D" word. These college/university educated people don't appear too educated to me. They appear indoctrinated...and brainwashed....and their levels of brainwashing are thick and deeply rooted. Their cries for "proper" Democracy is a signal that the Oligarchs are winning....and the future looks bleak.

The "Death Dealers" on Wall St. are comfortable in their positionings. Bankruptcy is a right of passage to a sick little game that they joke about later at their private soirees. I'm guessing 98 of the 99% of the Occupy Movement don't even know what a Primary Dealer is....much less what their ties are with the FED windows and their inner workings on the CME's casino.

Americans can't hold these criminals in D.C. and their masters on Wall St. accountable......they believe they are suppose to be living in a Democracy.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:58 | 1896224 oldman
oldman's picture

All too true what you say, but these dudes are all we have right now. I am grateful that at least someone is in the streets of the US because this is a connection with the rest of the world that we have been cut off from by the msm propaganda. These dudes are a far better Secretary of State than Hilary Dilary Dock.

They need and merit our support unless we are only whining about change                om

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 11:59 | 1895686 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

And send the family an invoice for the one yuan cost of the bullet used for the execution.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:18 | 1895724 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Bullets are free nowdays. Just a normal business expense.

They make up for it by selling the organs to Israel.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:03 | 1895694 Cliff Claven Cheers
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Spiral, isn't amazing the ChiComs adhere more to the rule of law and capitalistic principles than the supposed western democracies?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:33 | 1895744 trav7777
trav7777's picture

lol and you take a few isolated cases in a sea of fraud to claim this?

For every one person executed there are 1000s still engaging in counterfeiting in China and with the express permission of the Chicom gov't.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:03 | 1895800 T1000
T1000's picture

At least they get a couple good hangings. You know how many our corruption musters? A big fat zero.

China 1 - USA 0

Score one for the rule of law in china. While we get jack shit. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:36 | 1895859 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

Just because the ChiComs decide to hang a few low lying apparatchiks every blue moon and the USComs never do is not a point for the Chinese. Both systems are prison colonies.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:16 | 1895944 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

They were killed because they didn't pass some of the loot up the chain. Rouge thieves go down every day in the USA, but the bankster group never does. Madoff went down because he was stealing from the protected group, the joos. If he had kept his scam to the gentiles, he would be walking free today.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:56 | 1895902 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture


What do you know about China, besides nothing.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 22:56 | 1897389 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Having been there, I know that the "rule of law" in China means exactly jack-shit.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:03 | 1895799 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Capitalistic censorship, violent repression, and divisive exploitation of the ignorant?


Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:56 | 1895906 eftian
eftian's picture

Sounds a lot like the usa lately..

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:57 | 1895907 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture


You know even less about China, if that is possible

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:53 | 1895778 old naughty
old naughty's picture


...and in here, we perhaps have them to thank for sounding early warnings!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:58 | 1895793 defencev
defencev's picture

That is right. At least mafioso Corzine should go to jail, Marxist Obama removed from the office and shit Behanke kicked out. But do not whine...

All this cascading bullshit is in the minds of people who are reading Zerohedge. DO NOT READ THIS BULLSHIT EITHER. Just choose your banks and brokerages carefully. Take as much as possible of your assets to HK and Singapore. The Banks like DBS, Standard CHartered and HSBC will be fine.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:58 | 1895910 eftian
eftian's picture

HSBC lol

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:00 | 1895915 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture


HSBC together with JPM is the other big naked shorter of paper silver on the crimex.

The only good bankster is a dead one.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 19:09 | 1896467 defencev
defencev's picture

My own approach is quite simple. HSBC provides excellent services, has good loan to capital ratio and is quite active in Asian Markets. What you can do with HSBC is to open accounts with different branches in different countries of this bank. These branches are licensed in each country and covered by local government insurance scheme. I typically keep funds in local currency and thus covered by government insurance in each location. Not only there is a good chance the bank will be bailed out by UK (where is head quartered) in case of emergency but also that I will be able to recover funds in various jurisdictions if it does not happen. So far, HSBC did not ask for bail out anywhere...

 In my view, it is the best global bet.

Perhaps, I need to add here that as a Premier customer with HSBC, I have an opportunity of instantaneous and free  transfer funds between accounts in different jurisdictions with excellent exchange rates. If something really serious start happening, I am sure that HSBC will not be the first bank to collapse and I will have plenty of opportunities to move funds or even cash all of them (HSBC has also its own international ATM network).

You, guys are just ignorant jerks sitting in your caves subject to brainwash by various dubious idiots pretending to be in the know. As all absolute idiots, you are absolutely sure that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong. The thing is with such an attitude you will end up where you began: in your filthy cave with nothing.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 23:07 | 1897416 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"As all absolute idiots, you are absolutely sure that you are right and the rest of the world is wrong."  Project your own mentality much?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 23:27 | 1897463 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

HSBC is one of the global leaders in derivatives trading.

Derivatives are backed up by the deposits at HSBC.

Your money, IOW.

When the flag goes up, CDS, CDO, CLO lien holders are not subordinated - they go to the head of the line, even in front of local government insurance schemes. Your money will disappear like it did at MFG.

HSBC is off the list.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!