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Guest Post: MF Global - A Fractal In A Frying Pan
Submitted by MsCreant
MF Global: A Fractal in a Frying Pan
Gerald Celente, in an interview with Russia Today, claims he cannot access his PM trading account or get answers to his inquiries. It turns out Lind-Waldock, who he originally had the account with, was subsequently bought out by the now bankrupting MF Global. Understandably distraught, Celente asserts, “They took my money out of my account, six figures, and they have it. They closed out two of my positions, and I cannot get any answers, and I can’t get my money.”
Celente got many of us thinking—“If a guy like him can be refused access to his money, then who is safe?” Some argue he should not have been buying “paper gold.” Celente states that he was buying PM futures and taking delivery. “Max Keiser” the “Silver Bears” “Turd Fergusen” and more, have encouraged us to buy silver and “Bust the Comex.” Many of us here on Zero Hedge have fantasized in the comments section about someone wealthy enough to lay a few billion on the Comex for PMs and then stand for delivery. Celente, it is arguable, was doing this not only for himself but perhaps for Joe and Josephine Average who do not have the ammunition to fight this fight.
But as I got to thinking, I realized all of the above misses a valuable take away lesson. It is not simply the case that MF Global is a “first domino to fall” or a “canary in the coal mine” or a “harbinger of collapse.” MF Global is a fractal in a frying pan. Because of the defaults that must take place (municipal debt, sovereign debt, empty box MBS, CRE, I could go on and on), MF Global is showing us an early template, or fractal structure, for how these bankruptcies are going to manifest in our daily lives. MF Global is now falling out of the frying pan and into the fire and MANY OF US WILL FOLLOW. As the flow of bankruptcies increases, our everyday lived experience will be reshaped by the realities of the new structure as it is branded on our lives—financially and emotionally.
While Gerald Celente is crying about his lost six-figure account, Bill Fleckenstein also has personal money tied up with MF Global. He is hopeful that he will get it back but is critical of the authority figures involved. Celente does not expect to get all of his money back. Ann Barnhardt of Barnhardt Capital Management has shuttered its operations after six-years in the business. She did not feel like her clients’ funds were safe in the futures and options market any more. Lawrence Lepard, who posted on Zero Hedge, wonders if the MF Global failure was a hit job done by the Fed. My point is not about who is right or wrong (time will tell), but that we are getting an early, slow paced look at things to come—the story telling, guessing, shock, denial, hopeful strategizing, negotiations. The success, failure, triumph, rage, loss, and sorrow. As we move through time and defaults, the pace of people finding out that they “can’t get to their money” is going to pick up.
Today there is headline space to chide or support Celente and Fleckenstein. Today we have time to focus on what the one MF Global bankruptcy might mean about the state of the financial industry, the health of our economy, the impotence (or outright corruption) of our government regulatory agencies, and what it means for some of us as individuals. As more and more defaults and bankruptcies occur, more and more people will be claiming to have been robbed, crying about their lost retirement/college fund/income stream. They will not be news anymore. It will be the new normal. Before this is all over, most of us are going to claim we have had “our money taken” when, in reality, we are creditors who will be caught up in massive, multiple, overlapping, bankruptcy proceedings. We will want to focus on our individual situations—who did what with our money, why it was wrong, and who should go to jail. Many of us will also be the reason someone else has to go bankrupt. We will be their crook, their robber who did this that and the other with their money. And someone might want us to go to jail for it too. We are going to be at each other’s throats, in courtrooms and on the streets.
Gerald and Bill—you are not special. Today you can garner attention and sympathy (or contempt) for your plight. Tomorrow you will be but a grain of sand in an avalanche of financial discord, fuel long burned off in a raging firestorm that will consume everything, a fractal spark that flew out of the frying pan, giving us a glimpse of the future.
My husband read this and asked, “What do you advise?” At first blush, I find advice to be condescending. Who am I to advise? Buy precious metals? Have some cash on hand out of the banking system? Take all your cash out of the collapsing financial system? Stock up on some basics for emergencies? That might be decent advice but it is not the point. We need to be flexible. Focus on one individual’s situation, one company, or one country for that matter will soon be unsustainable. Few of us will escape the consequences of participation in the financial system. It is both broken and corrupt. Our “inability to get to our money” is going to cascade into each other’s lives, blowing up all kinds of relationships. We must keep our eyes and ears peeled for stories from multiple perspectives. This is why we read ZH.
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And with that is my new word for the day : leptokurtic.
You live and learn, if you keep your eyes open.
Though this was not directed to me, I read it and know you heard me. Thanks!!!
I heartily agree with your reasons to hold physical, Turd.
On busting the Comex, search for Eric Sprott's latest commentary on his difficulty taking physical delivery. Perhaps busting the Comex wouldn't be as difficult as thought...
The fact that silver has no counterparty risk means absolutely nothing to me. This is a commodity which has collapsed by >30% TWICE in the past six months. If you look at a one year chart of silver, it has gone from ~30 to ~50, and now back to the low 30's again. If you add the wholesale/retail arbitrage, there is not a single person who purchased physical silver this year who has made money on it, despite the fact that physical bullion is more popular than ever. Sure... it has no counterparty risk, but the volatility will make you vomit for nothing. I think the "real" reason you recommend physical silver is because investing in metals is part of the anarchist/libertarian/anti-government culture, and many of your readers WANT to hear it. What truly puzzles me, though, is your insistence in evaluating 15-minute charts to make daily predictions on silver prices. It has a very "carnival palm-reader" quality to it.
I'm not being critical to be a jackass. I think there's a lot of innocent, worried, gullible people out there that are being led astray, for no other reason than hubris and fanaticism.
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
Everyone has a right to their opinion. Even if they are wrong.
'Sure... it has no counterparty risk, but the volatility will make you vomit for nothing. I think the "real" reason you recommend physical silver is because investing in metals is part of the anarchist/libertarian/anti-government culture, and many of your readers WANT to hear it. What truly puzzles me, though, is your insistence in evaluating 15-minute charts to make daily predictions on silver prices. It has a very "carnival palm-reader" quality to it.'
Silver is one of the few assets that hasn't broken its all-time high. Historically speaking, silver has been the money of peasants across centuries and continents so many 'investors' believe that it still is.
Compared to fiat, silver is magic.
no clue of the relevance of this notion of silver being peasant money.
But yeah, have at it, stockpile the stuff and be a peasant. The value is what you can trade for it and silver's price volatility and value density preponderate against using it as a strategic wealth reserve.
As a MINOR spec position, sure. Wealth reserve? No. A gamble is what silver is. Silver is for people who don't make enough money to buy gold. I would recommend they buy 1/10ths or palladium if they desire to speculate on scarce industrial metals.
Classic Trav.
You caught me in a lie. Silver has never been a monetary metal. I'm ashamed now. But then you go on:
'Silver is for people who don't make enough money to buy gold.'
Right you are. Soon Au won't be affordable(it is money). The peasantry will have no choice(right again) but go to ... errr.... palladium?!
LO-fucking L Trav
Not copper, nickel, zinc?
Lets see someone try to carry $50,000 in silver on their back.
That is a little more than two pounds of gold. Maybe less.
Well, let's see, if many predictions of silver going to as much as $500 per ounce come true then $50,000 worth is 100 ounces or 8.33 pounds. That's not very tough at all.
If it only goes half that high, then it's 16.66 pounds. Again, not that tough.
If you are overweight silver you are just another speculator.
More than five percent silver in a portfolio and you are just another volatility junkie like me, with a different opinion on market timing.
shhhh...don't rain on the silverbugz parade here, man.
Don't inject facts into anything. Silver is going to $60 "next week" and shit.
Silver is too fucking heavy to hold in physical in ANY kind of bulk, and by that I mean hold in an amount you can run with. If you have to handle the logistics of moving your "wealth" with a heavy truck and a crane, then you haven't planned properly.
Hold silver as change for gold and in case it shoots the moon. But don't confuse this get rich quick fairytale for adequate wealth preservation.
You are so logical and that is why you should reread knuckles post above. One year who cares. What about all the paper millionaires from 2007, where are they today. So predicting the price of silver in a rigged market is a waste of time. The question you need to ask is who is and has been accumulating all the metals for the past 30 years, I've read that Ronald Reagan talked the Saudi's into over producing oil to crash the USSR's hard currency pipeline. This forced the soviets to pay for all their western imports in that other hard currency Gold. If this story is true, why would they do that and who are the people organizations to benefit. I mean if pm's are so worthless. RR was just the salesman.
Why are there enourmous private hoards of pm's out there and the public keeps hearing the parroted sqwauk that the sheeple shouldn't believe in the pm's inherent value. " its just a commodity"
The only way silver can repeatedly collapse by 30% is by repeatedly being bid up by 30%. The Greek debt situation has been repeatedly solved since its first, permanent solution was negotiated in May, 2010.
Either buy on the 30% pull-backs, or short at each 30% run-up. Sure, one view or the other will eventually be wrong for so long that it is collectively viewed as being a bad investment decision. For now, just make money off one opinion or the other, or both.
Max you are absolutely correct, the one year sucks and the three month blows - I like the 30 year myself.
http://www.moneyweek.com/investments/precious-metals-and-gems/other/mone...
(sorry about the moneyweek thing - but the author is cute)
Fight club this may be but when it comes to this discussion on Ag it has turned into a circle jerk with a possibility of sword fight on the horizon.
Using the commodity argument; yeah, it is a commodity who's primary characteristic - like that of oil - is as a consumable used once and tossed forever; I don't hear a lot of bitch and chew over the price of oil rising as we send rigs further and further out to sea to find it - all the majority of the putz economic sector appear interested in is why we pay so much for the stuff. Because you be using it so much - you useless vaginal swabs. At any rate the longer term prospect for silver is little different we are approaching a peak in production, we are likely to see nationalization of resources continue further tightening the supply dynamic for silver flowing into the marketplace - assuming of course this clusterfuck y'all so affectionately call a market holds together.
But the most important point I'd like to address - it's just so fucking shiny......I mean..... those who like it like it a lot.
And to address the concerns regarding running with silver on your back - one these colors don't run and two Ag makes great spoons - the tarnish from the flame comes right off with a bit of baking soda some salt and a piece of aluminum foil..... oh yeah it makes decent bullets too.
I recommend you take a look at the historical silver/gold ratio, and compare that to the S&P.
HTH.
If all else fails, you can easily transmute it into jewlery and add value. If you were really socially minded, you could create your own localised barter economy fixed onto physical silver and run with it. It has advantages over Bitcoin type operations where cracking is more dangerous than speculation. This would have two other benefits, which is networked mutual trust (i.e. contracts that aren't merely words on a page that lawyers spend immense amounts of energy making sure make them rich, and which can be held up for years if one party has the money & willingness to ruin the other party) and immunity to the very speculation you're citing - precisely because the market price is being held low. (Referencing historical cases)
By the way, the same could be said of owning a Bugatti or any other high end commodity - most things lose value when purchased, and unless you have generational thinking (i.e. antiques / art) then you'll always "lose out" on physical items. That's the point of them: to denote your ability to produce excess and revel in it. The illusionary 'safety blanket' of owning silver is probably worth a great deal to people ~ much better than a horse that might drop down dead the moment you purchase it.
For the record, your argument makes just much sense if you replace the word "silver" with "Groupon Stocks" or whatever the next IPO for the dotcom 2.0 bust is, which renders it slightly less worthy.
[Disclosure: I hold no PMs, but gave a +1 for honesty]
still the doe heads keep trading away with puts and calls ..like a little cottage industry ,
lines. many lines on charts .. to make a decision that could go bust in the night ,
warning after warning.. their just aint enough fiat in the system to pay all the bills .
yet the new traders on web sites still try to game the system ..
thinking they are smart enough .
This whole sorded affair is becoming another parable for localization - as in: "support your local PM dealer."
Personally, I'm making one last push to aquire more physical now - as those days seem to be numbered.
Turd,
You are THE SHIT. Most popular post on this thread. ;-)
Good call, MsCreant. The failure of the 'authorities' to guarantee the depositors is proof that this is a Lehman moment for the market, at least the futures market. Since futures deal with higher leverage than the equities markets, there is some sense that this type of collapse may not be model for the ultimate market failure. But the loss of confidence in the system is itself fatal. The CME has to know that this is a fatal blow to their business, so their failure to protect their customers indicates that they have accepted their imminent death, which can only mean that they lack the means to survive, ie, the fraud and corruption has reached the stage of 'total organ failure.' Clearly the cartel's strategy all along has been to direct their manipulation of the physical markets through interference in the futures markets, so we should expect the maximum corruption in futures, where fraud is easier to cover up. But the failure of this market will cascade, so I agree that MFGlobal is the fractal pattern. I only wonder what will be left when Ice 9 propagates through the entire financial structure, all the counterparties default, and all the money disappears. This might be a good time to think in terms of assets that you can possess, as I can see the brokerage computer reboot with all accounts at zero.
Fishhawk
"failure to cover up" is a "crime" as well. the authorities are barely being kept at bay now.
Worse than a crime sire.
The CME committed an error
It is a bit like the bumper car ride at the amusement park, some watch and can see the big picture ( ZH ) and others are in the game. When you are in the game, you believe you will win...that you are better, smarted, faster, more agressive and have no fear....that you are able to see it all so clear. Then you realize that some cars are working together to bump you...you just can't believe it. Then when you are about to grab that brass ring, they shut the power off for the season and leave you sitting there with a handfull of worhless tickets. From the sidelines it was all to clear how the day was going to end.
I grew up reading Kurt Vonnegut. I love your Ice 9 reference.
'Your CDS are useless'...............
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Actually not quite so useless as it functions as The New Faux Super Gold of TPTB. You can always sell it to a Greater Fool, but they can never sell it back to you because you know its real worth.
It's the most unprecious ponzi scheme ever created.
@MsCreant - I always enjoy your commentary -- always pointed, sometimes irreverent. :-) Good to see you posting too.
A few thoughts:
- The era of exponential counter-party risk has arrived. What asset you hold, in what form, and with whom matters more than ever. The Lind Walldock story is a reminder that even trusted brands change ownership. I actually had no idea that LW had been acquired by MF. That said, it is not news that since 2008 financial institutions were being routinely acquired *not* for their P&L but for their customer deposits -- presumably so they could be levered up 50X, e.g. through fractional reserve, reverse-repo, and sleight of hand by custodians.
- Cash and physical PMs sound good in theory but ultimately does not scale due to the associated security risk. Even Gaddhafi with a well-equipped army, could not defend his rumored $200 billion fortune. This is why I am a big believer in alternative assets, particularly intangible assets like patents, trademarks, brands and (especially) domain names.
As you say, stay flexible! Personally, I cannot see how anyone justifies any time deposits which do not offer instant liquidity in exhange for ~1% return. There is now ample evidence and precedent that ANY overnight deposit is a license for reverse-repo. My goodness. For the foreseeable future, investors will need to pay less attention to return ON capital (i.e. interest) and more attention to return OF capital (principal).
Actually, Lind-Waldock was acquired by Refco which kicked its futures business to Man Financial after Refco collapsed in a massive fraud. Man Financial then spun off MF Global.
Don't ask me how I know . . . :>(
I am so sorry. I hope it works out okay in your case. There is a chance it might.
your first thought is a great insight and I intend to use it in the future in explaining what aggregate contraction means.
Aggregate contraction makes this "exponential counterparty risk" real. The entire monetary system is a counterparty. If you think of time as a physical dimension, there are people out there right now in the future, YOUR counterparties as a participant in the creditmoney system, who you are DEPENDING ON to borrow geometrically more credit.
The FUTURE is the counterparty of the present in ANY growth system.
This is precisely how the system seems so incomprehensibly broken to the economists...the future is out there and they can't affect it and those people in the future are lousy counterparties. They CANNOT uphold their end. They won't have the oil supply to burn that we do. They will be making do with less. They won't be able to request generation of exponentially more credit.
Any farmer knows this principle implicitly, of the future being his counterparty.
And this week will be last week next week.
So . . you believe that "alternative assets", which must be guaranteed for you in multiple ways, by the same system that you acknowledge is corrupt . . these are better things than holding physical precious metals? Your Gaddafi example is silly. If you're enough of a target, you'll be pursued. Do you think the Gaddafi family could still collect on any "patents, trademarks, brands and (especially) domain names" if he'd had any?
Exponential counter-party risk is a great term. I think we all represent counter party risk. I am rebuilding a destroyed house. I am trying to pay as many folks as possible as fast as possible. The system may never crash. Or it may crash and I won't be able to get to my money. I will betray some contractors. Or the ones prepaid will be unable to deliver to me because they will go bankrupt. So getting this house done is in the forefront of my mind. We are in a web of relationships. Seeing all of these things from all of the perspectives as much as we can is our only chance.
Thanks for the kind comments.
I sure hope none of the slaves working in the service industry decide to poison their masters's food, accidentally leave a gas line open while doing repair work, cut random brake lines in the squid parking lot, take a detour into the heart of the ghetto while chauffeuring and abandon the dignified passengers. I would be appalled if a group of OWS individuals were to sell cocaine laced with poison to the midtown movers and shakers. Lawdy lawdy forbid someone duct tape up the relatives of some high end madams and insist women with AIDS be sent to a few select customers. Such a vulnerable class, those well-to-do no-time-for you people are.
nah, these court jesters are too busy trying to cozy up to move into a position to be themselves in the back of the limo.
Hehe.
If you are talking about OWS then you didnt meet some of the hardcore fanatics I met.
Conrad above has yet to touch upon their best ideas. Poisoning food is too easy to trace. Wiping traces of feces and blood in food and drink from a known hepatitis B and C carrier is untraceable, since it can take months to years to develop symptoms.
I told them they were very naughty and should cease and desist in such diabolical plans, but they wouldnt listen to ume.
I read ZH to find out how the sick are doing. Wonderful watching those who dislike regulations whine about lack of regulation enforcement.
The lack of segregation, and the failure to monitor, by exchanges and governemt, from Enron to now, has been a joke. It is criminal.
But, If it was enforced, the cry of lack of certainity would increase and sobs of pain about anti business policies.
I think you overstate the Libertarian position - Libertarians are not anarchists - they believe in the rule of law and feel that these rules need to be enforced fairly - just that the rules that we need to start with are those found in the Constitution. I have not heard any of the libertarian pursuasion argue that the common laws of contract need to be thrown out either - just that they need to be enforced in the courts. IMHO, we're putting the cart before the horse when we argue about whether we should have enforcement agencies as a constitutional matter, when they don't enforce the law, but just act to rubber stamp rampant crime and fraud.
Actually libertarians are anarchists. It is the perception of anarchy that is incorrect.
Read more Rothbard.
Anarchy implies lack of central governing authority, it does not mean Somalia esq social disorder.in fact this is exactly the statist argument, if there was no government with laws against murder etc then we'd all be running around randomly killing each other. Merely because a law exists does not prevent people from doing things. However taking that attitude means the government must think and approve (via laws) what behavior is appropriate (eat your peas. Buy us treasuries. Don't protest. Eastasia has always been at war with Eurasia.)
Libertarians believe in 2 main principles, (individual) property rights and non violence.
Libertarians believe free markets are the ultimate regulators, provided you have rights to your property (and not the banks laying claim to your assets as occurs now). Almost everything could be prosecuted as fraud.
Things like child abuse would be prosecuted under the non-violence law.
I can't help to wonder about the people who have apparently lost millions with MF Global. What will they do next? Will they find a new broker and start all over again? I suspect... yes. Most are nothing but gambling addicts. The thought of using capital to start a productive business will never cross their mind.
It's a whole lot easier - and prolly less risk - to speculate than start a viable business in America.
And... it's a whole lot easier - and prolly less risk - to be a thief than to speculate in America. MF Global proves that. Think Corzine is going to jail? Haha...
the people who own the government are the parasite class...they are always looking for productive people to rape. That is what the entire system of usury is INTENDED to do and why the Torah makes lending to gentiles at interest an affirmative commandment. Make THEM work for you so you do not have to work and can enjoy the production while you engage in leisure and total domination
OK, so I admit I had to ask my high-school-aged son what the hell a fractal is.
But this is a great article, and it jibes with a growing sense I've been having. Sometimes it seems the collapse is happening slowly, almost as if in a dream where falling takes for-e-v-e-r. But how would I know how long a collapse of the financial system takes? I've never experienced this before, and neither has anyone I can talk to.
My grandfather lived through the Depression; he ran a hardware store the whole time. He said when the economy drops by 25% that doesn't mean everything stops; it means people spend $0.75 instead of $1.00. The key is that they're still spending $0.75, and you have to figure out how to survive in that situation.
He died about 5 years ago at the age of 96, but he had a pretty keen idea of what was going on. He said that nothing had really changed; what was once perceived as super-risky is still, whaddyaknow, super-risky. You can't borrow what you can't pay back. If you ever get enticed by the rosy scenario, you'd better consider the disaster scenario. Your house isn't really worth 3 times what it was 5 years ago. So it's going to collapse, and you're going to lose your money. And so is everybody else. You aren't going to disappear, and neither is everyone else. You're going to have to figure out how to survive.
Rome collapsed about 1500 years ago. I've been to Rome. It's a big city again now, full of people, going about their business and getting stuff done. People get on and off of buses, right next to the ruins of the Forum, with babies in strollers and bags of groceries. And they call themselves Romans. Now they have a finance crisis. The babies' diapers still need to be changed.
If Gerald Celente is outraged that he can't access his money in the accumulating rubble of this debt-based interest-fueled system of buying and selling abstract money; well, he hasn't been reading his own stuff, has he? Yes, it's rigged. Yes, it's unfair. Yes, it's falling apart. We know that or we wouldn't have memberships at ZeroHedge.
Just buying gold isn't the only answer; gold is, as some point out, as edible as an iPad. Sure we should have extra cash and food on hand. I grew up on a farm in a place where it gets really cold and you could freeze or starve, so I get preparedness.
But it's bigger than that. What we need to do is stay flexible and alert. The old system is ending, and something new will replace it. It takes a couple paragraphs in a history book. In real time it seems to take for-e-v-e-r. But it's happening right now. The more actively we participate, the better off each of us will be. Not sure what the right first steps are, but it probably doesn't matter. Motion toward...something...is better than stunned inertia and shock that what we've been saying is actually physically true. If our first motions turn out to be going in a wrong direction, then change direction. But being shocked that the money one had tied up in MF'ing Global is not accessible right now is a waste of time and energy, and is actually silly.
Um, most school-age kids seem to be having trouble with simple algebra. Did he really know about fractals?
I have three teenagers in the house, they all know about fractals, and have no problems with algebra or calc.
NOVA did several docu. on it, good stuff
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics/hunting-hidden-dimension.html
Then you've done well!
ETA: Definitely not a knock on the students, just "the system." Teaching in the college sciences, we find that most non-major students are unprepared for math, from exponents to trig. This used to be a core subject for everyone, but I'm told that is no longer the case.
Yeah, actually; I was impressed too. He's in 8th grade in the Minneapolis Public Schools. Mind you, he isn't doing anything terribly complicated with fractals, but he knew what they were. The curriculum these kids are getting is at least as advanced, if not more, than I got in the 1970's and early '80's. How rigorously it's drilled into them, or they're assessed, may be a different matter.
Thanks for hearing me.
Is this why the Central Banks are buying physical Gold bars?
Is this also why so many nations are demanding their goild be moved from London storage back to their own homeland ...Hong Kong...Iran...Venezuela...all asked for their physical gold to be brought to their own possession.
U of Texas also asked for physical possession...is this why?
Central banks can hold reserves directly at other central banks; I don't think they generally face this kind of counterparty risk (ie risk a broker goes bust).
They do face default risk if they hold reserves as sovereign debt. But Euro area countries aside I don't think that's what they're worried about just yet. I think they're increasing gold holdings because cooperation has broken down & they don't know who will be devaluing next...
Barnhardt's didn't want to put customers at risk going through FCMs like MF Global. But what about risks to funds held at ordinary discount brokers (eg Interactive Brokers, Fidelity blah). I don't think they have the same (outrageous) rules as the FCMs. So maybe equity holdings via these brokers are safer, & it's only futures (& options) traded via FCMs that face this kind of risk? But then, what happens to funds after closing out a contract.
Fractal or not, it's a real can of worms.
Just saw this:
http://market-ticker.org/post=197702
CBs typically have only what would be termed "Hitler Risk"
I hope to read more from you. You are certainly insightful.
BTW, I guess your husband is a professor. He should definetely try post some blogs of his.
Ms Creant
Are you replacement for Leo?
"While Gerald Celente is crying about his lost six-figure account.."
Inaccurate statement. Celente is raging. You might be sobbing and crying if it happened to you but he is furious (rightly) and kicking off (damn right too)
"Gerald and Bill—you are not special.."
That's your opinion, which is worthless
"Tomorrow you will be but a grain of sand in an avalanche.."
Actually I follow Celente because he's got a great mind... unlike you who is entirely forgettable with or without an avalanche
"My husband read this and asked, What do you advise?"
Wait for it, here comes the genius....
"At first blush, I find advice to be condescending.."
Yes your advise is condescending... vacuous too ...here comes the condescending advise though...
"We need to be flexible..."
Bingo! Why didn't I think of that? we need to be "flexible". That was soooo worth waiting for... the puzzle is solved, we're saved!
"Our inability to get to our money is going to cascade into each other’s lives, blowing up all kinds of relationships."
If I was your husband I'd have left you already you aimless pointless patronising woman
This article is total crap. I haven't read such inane condescending shit since Leo topped himself
Maybe we could get an ounze of wisdom out of YOU instead of pointless degrading crap denigrating one persons opinion. I can make my own judgements thank you.....i need access to YOUR brain please !!!!
A snowflake is a fractal...but not in a frying pan.
Go ahead. Don't be shy, tell us what you REALLY think. LOL
"Gerald and Bill—you are not special.."
That's your opinion, which is worthless Says: zero govt.
27 negatives and counting. It would appear other's rank your opinions about the same...
Are you Celentes mom?
You actually exemplify her point, LOL! Flexibility is key. My house on Galveston Bay is wood frame old pine built in 1927 by my grandmother. It has withstood several direct hits from Cat 4 hurricanes because it was flexible. Other less flexible structures are long gone.
if MsCreant had written an article on how to be flexible rather then just the inane/worthless and pointless word "flexible" then fine
but as her dribble stands it's just a patronising and snide slap down of Celente and others who've lost money from the MF'ing scandal
I couldn't give a rats arse how many people have junked me... more reason why majority vote is no way to settle anything because most people are dumb (53% of voters vote afterall proving most of the people can be fooled most of the time)
Once again the minority who agreed with me are right to do so ...genius is a minority occupation, not a majority vote... the junkers can also Go F themselves for being as brainless as MsCreant
For the record, the word you're looking for is drivel, but you can dribble on yourself all you want. I can see you don't need permission from me. Her piece is a lot more relevant, thoughtful and constructive than your rants against Ron Paul for neglecting to advocate for total anarchy, etc. I mean, stop me when I get to something you said that actually provoked thought here in the Fight Club. Or are you still working on that? I see. Well, TD may just decide to publish YOU when something rolls down your brain stem.
Actually "for the record" the word i used was "dribble" (inane saliva dribbling down a comatose/senile persons chin) because that was the precise word i wanted. So "for the record" I wasn't "looking for" the word drivel
And you're quite right (just once) I don't need your "permission". Like MsCreants article that's a collection of worthless and pointless thoughts
Her article is not "relevant". It is known news repeated with the object of patronising MF Global clients as forgettable grains of sand and they're "not special"."
There is zero content (knowledge) above. Her "advise" which she thinks is condescending (so why give it then?) is to be "flexible". That's beyond inane. Why not be "rubberised" or "fluid" two words just as meaningless without further context.
Celente's mantra is "thinking for yourself". Clearly the best MsCreant can manage is to recycle the news and add a twist of patronising to people who have lost money
if you thought for yourself about society, Ron Paul and Govt you'd not be such a moron to think (?) zero Govt means "anarchy" (a small group running riot over society). You have swallowed unthinkigly the propaganda spewed by the stablishment like a good little zombie.
it is Govt and Law that leads to anarchy (see Soviet Russia, Mao China or the EU, Washongton and Wall Street right now). It is Govt and their tons of Laws that have caused anarchy in every country in history
I want order in society, natural social order, which developes naturally as it does in nature through freedom of the individual. Society does not need a monopoly institution (Govt) nor its monopoly Depts (Judiciary, Law, Police etc) to be civil
It is adding monopoly institutions run by small groups that causes anarchy (small groups running riot ober society).
But as you've shown you don't think about anything deeper than rice paper (and cannot think out of the box you've been given to dribble in) before you shoot off another vacuous sentence.. nor does Ron Paul or MsCreant
The lights are on but nobodies home... like this recycled news, running on empty condescending article
If the precise word you wanted was dribble then I apologize. My complaint lies not with your word choice but with your diction.
Your argument for the clarity of your thinking fails to convince me. A great example of an environment with Zero Government is right here on Zero Hedge. No controls, no taxes, no laws, no restrictions. Just free exercise and free expression. Then someone like you comes along and proves why the majority of people prefer to have at least some government - to protect themselves from unpleasant, unorganized influences like you. Then the small (Pauline if you will) government becomes larger as some join the side of the unorganized and unpleasant on principle (I would count myself in that category) and government enlarges itself in response and you end up with what we have in DC.
Small groups running over society is not anarchy. None of your examples illustrate anarchy or an anarchic form of government. Look here or here if you wish. Your understanding of anarchy and government seem to be lacking. But since this is a free forum, I will let you get back to ranting against one of us commenting on a commentator.
"If I was your husband I'd have left you already you aimless pointless patronising woman"
You could never have been her husband. To be MsCreant's husband it is necessary that you possess a certain number of functioning brain cells. You do not qualify.
next time her husband loses money the batty bitch will tell him he's "not special.. just a grain of sand lost in an avalanche"
Next . . .
Hey there,
You are sooo crabby. You took most of my comments out of context, as if you relish being pissed off or something. That is fine, be pissed. But I don't think me or my post inspire that much contempt intrinsically.
*I would be crying, freaking out, no question. Never said I would not be. What I did say is that he is not the only one here and going into the future he will not be the only one this happens to. I made the point that I think it is going to happen in one way or another to an awful lot of us. Furthermore, other posters have pointed out other incidents that have occured before this one, further making my point that Celente is no one special.
*Gerald and Bill are not special does not mean I think I am superior to them some how, in fact I think I am saying all of us are Bozos on this bus together. You too. It will be like the angel of death, you just don't know at the out set who will get it and who won't but lots of us will. The "special" was obviously about this issue, not their respectability. You really looked crabby and looking to start something for no reason with this one.
*Even if you follow him, this incident that happened to him is already one of thousands of rip offs already going on everywhere. Think General Motors and other situations that have been discussed in these threads by others who would remind us that GM Global is not the first situation with poor heavy handed handling where winners and losers were picked and the rule of law ignored.
*Insult away, it seems to be what you need to do. Other posters here had critique for me and they did not need to be derogatory when they pointed out issues to me. You did.
*I was uncomfortable about the "advice thing." But I thought I made that clear.
*It seems you did not find my fractal observation worth reading this post, that was not a "point" for you. That is okay, others did.
*Good thing you are not stuck with a woman like me. I'd call you on your shit and you would hate it. Since you don't know me (I could be a guy pretending to be a woman for all you know) it would seem that this post has been a great projection screen.
Yes I'm "crabby", exactly like Celente raging at this blatant criminality and theft of othes money amongst 4 totally inept/corrupt Regulators (5 if you include Govt)..
..got a problem with being crabby? ...its a social trend strongly on the up and will be 'hip' for a good 6 more years to its peak. But you're more than welcome to sit about and pretend to be the great well-balanced know-it-all philosopher. Emotionally dead, not registering, let it all slide by like grains of sand right?
"..he is not the only one here and going into the future he will not be the only one this happens to.."
Observational genius! It appears to me an absolutely pointless observation except you add the added stab Celente's "crying" (anger) is only a grain of sand (trivialsed by numbers) amongst many
then you dig again he's "not special". Nobody is special in your philisophical dead zone
actually the individual is the world and all that's in it. If the individual is not special then the collective is also made worthless. Your averaging in numbers is emotionless, thoughtless and pointless (philosophers, economists and statiticians in a nutshell)
"Insult away, it seems to be what you need to do."
If it makes you feel more rightuous that i throw insults for no better reason than i'm in the mood to throw insults (pointless ranting) then let me not hold you back from your self-delusion
The points/insults i've thrown at you is that you are patronised Celente & Company as not special and numerically trivial and your article/advise is pointless (no knowledge)
"Flexibility" is not advise on how to deal with this economy or corruption. It is an inane word without further context or strategy
The fractal observation is a physics word you used to descrbe economic robbery. Robbery takes place once, it does not repeat on itself like a fractal. I fail to see the accuracy of the description
The MF robbery is a fractal of putting a monopoly institution, Govt, known for economic and social robbery (ie. anarchy) at the centre of society. i'd agree with that observation ....if you'd made it
The point was the robbery does repeat and the definition of the situation changes given the shifting perspectives and the fluid dynamics of the equation. My inability to get my money (I am a victim) to pay what I owe you makes me your perp (maybe not to you, maybe you understand I was stolen from, but maybe your wife, or maybe the woman you owe who you can't pay because I didn't pay you). If you observe the event as synchronic vs. diachronic you enable different perspectives as well. But even then, there is more than one robbery.
You want Celente to be special. He is another victim. He is also another perp. Like you. Like me. We all have to pull our heads out of our asses to see that we are passively enacting these roles because we are narrowly focused on our own situations.
I agree that my post is useless for you.
BTW, I'm angry too. I like my anger to be productive. When channeled well it is a positve protective emotion. Channeled in a way that mindlessly attacks does unnecessary damage that often can't be undone later.
The elites are the enemy, but so is the system. Your avatar indicates you should understand that much.
Celente is in the elite class. If/when a revolution comes, he will probably be hung too. But then again so might you and I. Just depends on the perspective, who is carrying the rope.
Get it now?
Huh? So if you're pulling your ass up the mast on a sinking ship, does it make you feel better that there's folk under you? Those bank employees will inevitably be people who paid your brother-in-law the photographer good money for his services, dropped off their laundry at your cousins' cleaning franchise, made once a week plans for dinner at your best friends' restaurant, or bought their gas at your 7-11. Till now.
That's exactly what MsCreant does such a fine job of pointing out: in a rockslide, everything goes down the hill, and the pebbles what shifted when Corzine made his lunge towards the top of the sand pile are already moving boulders closer and closer to a place near you!
bud, if you are truly representative of the " solutions" supported by the 99 per cent, looks like things are gonna get nasty real fast! Dog eat dog!?!
my comment was supposed to be a response to Heroic Couplet, but didn't get slotted in there for some reason...oh well, since I'm looking at Zero Government's instead, hey, whassup with that? One of our fellow ZH'ers steps up to give it a shot, and you're all over her like a snapping dog? Comparing her to Leo?
Yikes, what is this, Black Sunday? Maybe my comment needs do double duty! Lighten up guys...
btw...I was originally just intending to say nice work MsCreant and leave it at that, till I saw the downward drift.
Nice work MsCreant!
;-)
hey ms_C!
for the wild west show you are talkin' about:
PMs, supplies & cash = prudent investment "stance"
it seems extreme
but it isn't
since i can't give you a greenUpskie, i''ll just give it to myself! L0L!!!
You can rank the article though!
i'm thinking about it, fuu
will that change what zH gives me in "Similar Articles You Might Enjoy"?
these branching universes start off so innocently, don't they?
Choice is serious business.
Ya'll know how to have fun!
Thanks for the article.
@MsCreant
'As more and more defaults and bankruptcies occur, more and more people will be claiming to have been robbed, crying about their lost retirement/college fund/income stream. They will not be news anymore. It will be the new normal. Before this is all over, most of us are going to claim we have had “our money taken” when, in reality, we are creditors who will be caught up in massive, multiple, overlapping, bankruptcy proceedings.'
In Kyle Bass' latest interview he mentions what's coming as the Atonement. How all this plays out in the psyche of the average American, I have no idea. I have to believe that many will be overwhelmed. This will be an opportunity for social scientists(economists, sociologists, psychologists etc.) to make up for the complete and utter failure of the past 30 years.
"This will be an opportunity for social scientists(economists, sociologists, psychologists etc.) to make up for the complete and utter failure of the past 30 years."
The key word being "opportunity" in that statement. I imagine most of them hiding under their desks for some reason. Or standing in line waiting for government handouts with the rest of the lemmings.
@ d-Dub$
They are mostly receiving a comfortable salary within the American University system. That's the hiding place of choice for many. My 'beef' here, is that America has lost(in many institutions, not just 'higher learning') a moral sense that has been replaced by layers of phony intellectualism. The pervasive 'problems' in US society are moral courage while many would have you think that the battleground is ideological/theoretical. The youth have been drugged by symbols.
I hope you are right:
"This will be an opportunity for social scientists"
I am one. My crew is asleep.
It seems to me that the comex does not have the metal which it was due to stand for in November / December this is why they have not honoured the guarrentee of MFG's transaction as they should have.
They also have claimed that they hold $100billion in reserves to facilitate the $800 Trillion of transactions which passes through the comex. i dont think they have this either if they cannot guarrentee the $700 million then they can not operate.
it really is time to buy physical
Excellent Post! Pattern recognition at its finest. This Fourth Turning is going to be BIG.
Well said, MsCreant. As I and many have been saying, this economy simply cannot recover until such time as all of the criminal syndicate Wall Street bankers have been forced out of the system. A bank IS a trust. The TRUST is broken...and will continue to be broken again and again, as the players remain the same to this date [less Corzine now].
Capital cannot, in fact will not, form up in such a corrupt system, and as such, the collapse will simply continue, sometimes in slow motion, sometimes in great big confidence lost gaps. And then sometimes, it will briefly bounce when it is announced that B. Bernanke is printing more money to fill the ever growing gap. We have been witnessing this now for two years.
The very fact that Bernanke continues to answer our problems with his schemes is PROOF of the problem. It is very simple.
CAPITAL CAN NOT FORM IN THE CURRENT BANKING REGIME!
agree, cdad. as do many others.
but finding the right mechanism in which to change the current banking regime is the real task - if we don't want to wait for the long, drawn out, painful, slow motion, natural collapse. they ain't just giving it all up.
so as there are some that may be awake to all this, those with the means (financially and politically) that dare to stick their necks out there first are going to get them chopped. or they will be ignored and marginalized (see Ron Paul). that leaves things to the more financially powerless - which doesn't normally end peacefully because we have no other means of leverage . but it seems the mass of americans and europeans are some ways from that point.
The average American has the perfect leverage. It is his wallet. Deciding NOT to participate in this economy is the most direct route to the banker's jugular vein.
I am so tired of these posts that portray the citizenry as helpless. It simply is not true. Yes, it does not work instantly...but it works. And instant things...they tend to be overrated, anyway.
Buck up, folks. Quit buying the newest iteration of the I-whatever. Quit banking at BAC. Forget the latest fashion. Stop eating out at these crappy corporate restaurants. And NEVER EVER buy a GM vehicle again.
Let's go, folks...commence the revolution of the closed wallet.
well, if you've got a few millenia to wait for all that, cdad, good for you. i don't as i am a mortal. and i'll wager i'm way ahead of you as to "bucking up" as you say. and here we still are.
so if you really wish to wait on the closed wallet revolution - i'd say you might as well wait up at night for the tooth fairy. it just isn't gonna happen unless the bulk of people don't have anything in their wallets to bother opening them in the first place. and that's really what we're trying to avoid, yes?
Cdad
Well said. The criminals don't even trust themselves.
ZIRP has destroyed savings and capital. It has temporarily saved the criminals.
Thanks Ms_Creant.
And Zero Gubmint- FUCK YOU ! The only thing similar between Ms_Creant and Leo is their gender. So why don't you offer up some of your prescient wisdom.
The broken trust is a sad thing. I am a parent and it makes it hard to parent when all the authority figures act like these people do.
Physical Bitchez!
libertarian86.blogspot.com
Yeah Gerald Celente is buying paper gold (after lecturing everyone on planet Earth not to) for Mr. and Mrs. America out of the kindness of his heart. MsCreant you're either a Goddamned fraud or an idiot, let enquiring minds know which, ok?
For those who only know how to brainlessly repeat in Mickey Mouse voice what they read on ZH, it seems to me Gerald Celente and Fleckenstein got their asses burned for SPECULATING with a derivatives account
Tyler, your "guest posts" which about 85% of the time end up being advertisements for silver and gold, aren't much different than FTAlphaville's whoring and exposing their ass from their short skirt for investment banker/dealer advertising space----you better clean it up or blog readers will vote not with their feet, but vote with their mouse, clicking on another blog.
don't let the door hit you on the way out big fella.
Could you elaborate? Are you suggesting that "Celente and Fleckenstein got their asses burned for SPECULATING with a derivatives account" and that therefore, since something like that is to be expected, there's no huge crisis?
Or am I misunderstanding your point? Maybe an explanation without the flaming so it's easier to follow your reasoning?
Troll Alert! Troll Alert! Troll Alert! Ding Ding Ding
No. He bought futures to take physical delivery.
suuuure he did. It's funny how after losing asses, people's "real" reasons/excuses start getting thrown around
Tedk = uninformed or stupid. Celente was buying options to take physical possession. Celente was robbed of his cash money in his trading account, the bankruptcy trustees' transferred his options to a new broker, but did not transfer any of his cash to the new broker. This effectively created an instant margin call with the new broker on gold options that he ALREADY HAD PUT UP MARGIN FOR, AND ALSO HAD THE FUCKING CASH TO PURCHASE THE OPTIONS . He and all the other account holders in MF Global cant get any of their cash, it is gone and unaccounted for. Theft, pure and simple.
MKistake
ron paul on face the nation-total hit on him started off with 911-host is a dirtbag-makes me wanna puke
That guy was such a dick.
interviewer : are you suggesting that actions have consequences?
paul : yes, you fuckwit
"They hate us because we're free" ... I remember hearing for the first time and what immediately came to mind was "that is going to be used as the pretext for perpetual war"
Trying to understand our enemy and their motivations should not be confused with appeasement, as many a warmonger believes.
Also, yes, neoconservatives, actions have consequences. Perhaps we should investigate this causal chain a bit more?
funny how they don't hate the swedes
and if they do hate us for our freedoms, I guess the solution is to take all those freedoms away so they don't hate us so much.
We have to destroy freedom to save it
Mscreant. I don't recall reading you on ZH before. Are you new? I'm sorta torn at this point. How could such a monsterous and evil system allow us open acces to 'true' information? I've wondered before if ZH is actually a sort of 'catch basin' for those who have slipped through the cracks.
I mean come on, how niave would one need to be to not at least ask this question?
Maybe I'm just paranoid but ZH somehow seems 'to good to be true'.
I'm NOT making an accusation, I'm just putting it out here that ZH ought to be scrutinized as a potential elite op.
I'm 90+% that this site is legit and brilliant, and possibly the greatest thing since the Gutenberg press, I just have a tough time trusting ANYTHING any more and to add a side of frustration to go with my confusion is the realization that THEY would very much prefer that I, WE, be in precisely this dis-confabulated state.
MsCreant is a fellow reader of ZH, whose comments appear from time to time on the posts. Tylers' have given her a platform to speak from, and that's got to be lauded...closer thing to a free market meritocracy of thought as I've seen! Unfortunate to see the amount of vitriol spewed.
Anyways, your comment made me laugh! I'd been almost convinced I was the most paranoid person on the planet....but you've set a new mark I cannot imagine being beat....not saying you're right or wrong for it, just a hell of a joker... here's a quote from Claude Steiner I offer in appreciation:
Good quote! But you're only an average paranoid, I'm afraid. I'm much more paranoid than you too.
I've wondered also for some time why ZH is allowed to exist. Possibly so TPTB can determine which way the wind is blowing among the better informed? Or as an element of Hegel's dialectic? Or just to make tons of money like Huffington did? Or is it just to build a database of our IPs so the Men In Black will know where to go to pick us up when TSHTF? Or like Google, Wikipedia and Wikileaks are alleged to be (and there is evidence) is just another CIA black op? Who the fuck knows? Not me.
But I enjoy this blog and many of the contributors and responders.
Nice to see other paranoids up in the middle of the night pondering what new disasters may befall us. Look no further than "1984". Ya think you are all safe and cozy in your secret little room, when, BAM!! Caught naked and vulnerable. Bwahahahah. Honestly, I've often thought how perfect a place this is to round us freedom fighters up. Almost like hippies in a park. : )
FeralSerf : And now that you decloaked they are coming for you! What's that knock on the door??
Jokes aside, I do have more than a pang of concern if I find ZH down. If it ever goes down permanently, you will know some serious bad shit is happening.
This other quote must be somewhere else in the comments but I have missed it: "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you." I'd say that for the regular ZH commenter (and perhaps reader), paranoia is a definite character trait. Of course to me, a certain level of paranoia simply seems prudent and reasonable.
MsC, thanks for the terrific article. It's one I'll have my husband digest, too.
You helped give me the courage to do it with a comment you left me. Thanks.
The 'Tyler Durden' of ZeroHedge had some skills in navigating an extremely corrupt system, before ZeroHedge got underway.
This is not simple or easy, and not without risk and danger that continues.
Though indeed it is reasonable to ask how ZeroHedge manages to maintain itself out there, critiquing the oligarchs 'system' so brutally, without the system yet moving to crush it.
Partly it is that a significant sector of the ruling apparatus, actually learns from ZeroHedge as well. Where else could Bloomberg and Reuters and the FT, go to steal so many story ideas, and learn in advance what could be mainstream financial 'news' days or weeks into the future?
Not just ZeroHedge readers, but both CNBC and the oligarchs like to have a good general financial news source that is fairly close to real-time.
And 'Tyler Durden' is set up somewhat internationally, with suitable escape plans discreetly ready. When the fascist plans go into effect, if 'Tyler' is in the wrong place at the wrong time, he indeed might 'disappear'. 'Tyler' knows the risks and has prepared as best 'Tyler' can.
Indeed 'tis a great and noble undertaking, setting up shop in the devil's own neighbourhood and distributing news about the devil's doings. For however long it lasts, it is much appreciated.
ISEEIT and Bank Guy
The only fear about ZH is a take down or a sell-out. The Tyler's integrity limits a sell out, but a take down, as in a life sentence for a traffic ticket, while driving in (name the country) is possible.
But I completely agree. ZH is the best window on the corruption in the financial criminal enterprise.
I wish I could let you meet me and reassure you. I am soooo nobody. I submitted, it was accepted. It's fucking real as near as I can tell. If not, I have really been fooled, hook, line and sinker. I dare to have hope that real human beings are out here fighting to help put together a big picture so that we can decide for ourselves how this should go.
If it is CIA, man they are good and let me join up. But I don't think so.
For the past couple of years, many of us have stated that you have to have physical in hand. There is no better example for this concept than MFG. 2008 proved to me that our (the World's) financial system is nothing but smoke. After reading up on thousands of years of financial history, its apparent that what we are going through is nothing new, other than scale (massive)
The fraud and corruption is to the core and the lands are lawless.
I have no doubt that what happened to Celente will happen to us and our bank accounts, 401K's and any other binary account you may have.
GET GOLD and SILVER NOW and TAKE POSSESSION...
Its no 100% guarantee, there is no such thing, but its the best we can do.
Nice conceptualization of MFG as preview, Ms. Fractal world indeed. Small community capable of self-reliance is one's only real hope for the coming shit storm, imo. Flexibility foremost, absolutely.
Thanks, MsCreant--glad to see you stepping into the limelight!
Ms is the reason I don't really post here, because in the beginning, every time I started to post something, she would beat me to it.
I read MsCreant and Turd's site every time they post something, and I am greatful for both of them.
You should post more if it feels right to do so. Thanks for the kindness.
Regional banks are showing a nice positive divergence
Check it out for yourself:
http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=SPY&t=5d&q=l&l=on&z=l&c=KRE&a=v&p=s&l...
GS is probably very close to a major intermediate low
GS and MS will probably not get into any type of trouble, because after the MF failure, TPTB will certainly prop up GS and MS, or some "enterprising PigMan" like Warren Buffett or Wilbur Ross will announce a massive investment.
I'm sure the "officials" are now marshalling up the potential "investors" as we speak.
To be unleashed at the absolute worst possible time for the bears.
Robo you are probably right but not just bad for bears bad for anyone trying to make an honest living all those front or back door bailouts devalue the currency and ethical trade . Hence the angry crowds gathering in cities around the world .
It still hasn't dawned on you yet has it? There are no longer real 'bears' and there are no longer real 'bulls' left in this so-called confidence market in the sense that you nostalgically still believe in. It's pretty much all Cray computers playing a chess match against one another. IOW you are not nearly quick enough to compete. Short of trading on insider info, you are nothing in this market as is your fanciful delusion seeking forever the discovery of diamonds in a veritable garbage heap. Your main problem is you don't know what's a garbage heap when you see it. So therefore your advice sucks.
You will be handed your stupid delusional head on a turd-laden platter as a consequence. You deserve it.
Well, when certain people are free to do whatever they want with OUR money or allowed to do things that affect the quality of our money, then we will suffer in one manner or another. If laws and regulations are not enforced, then you have anarchy which is an apt term for today's financial system. Plan accordingly.
Selling volume on GS is really weak.
Nothing compared to the huge sell orders that hit back in May
Stock is probably pretty close to being washed out.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=GS&p=D&yr=0&mn=9&dy=0&id=p59779572179
What's the difference between RobotTrader trading advice and the sound of one hand clapping?
One hand clapping does not stink?
Good answer, but I was thinking more along the lines of NONE, both are equally useless and pointless.
BTW, happy ZH anniversary!
MsCreant, nice work. I enjoyed the article. You are absolutely correct, it's a landslide coming our way.
Don't despair, the SuperCommittee will save us all. "The SUPERcommittee is tasked with proposing (at least) $US 1.2 TRILLION worth of spending cuts in US government spending over the next decade. The Treasury has racked up an official increase in funded debt of $US 5 TRILLION in 37.5 months - four times what the "super committee" is trying to cut over the next 120 months. The absurdity of this situation is beyond any fiction, it couldn't be invented." - Taken from "The Privateer" Gold This Week - article.
$120B per year is a total fucking joke
And a joke that won't be told...
Why no criminal charges?
That is the smoking gun......
MsCreant
First, I always read your posts, Always a good read. Thanks.
But more importantly thank you for shining a light on the MOST important lesson. This IS a pattern that will go forward. THAT is the lesson here. You are right.
The only asset that is safe is one you have in your personal possession. Whether it is a Au/Ag coin or two, or Heritage Seeds, a 308, and the rest.
Bankruptcies at ALL levels will proceed and escalate. Banks, Countries, Companies, Cities, Counties, Personal. Position yourself and your family.
You are all You Got.
Thanks again MsCreant for a most valuable insight and post.
And yes, I agree, THIS is why we read ZH.
P.S. Love your Avatar
bankruptcies should already have...mortgages aren't being paid, bills are being rejected...yet there appear to be no consequences.
Debt is a state of mind apparently
Thanks for hearing me!
Here is the avatar picture.
http://newslocal.whereilive.com.au/lifestyle/story/mad-bad-women-discover-the-furtive-world-of-the-femme-fatale-at-sydneys-pol/
She is pointing a gun and wants some answers, like me. I don't smoke, but the spirit is there.
Yes, we are truly fractaled.
Ditto that.
And thanks MsCreant.
The all singing all dancing crap of the world. This is your life and it's ending one minute at a time.
Failures to deliver aught to become a very hot topic. Let's say that somebody sold MF Global options contracts for billions in Italian debt without first owning any of this debt. But as luck would have it, the people who sold this 'crap' to MF Global were on the right side of the trade. A good republican trader selling to a staunch democrat who believes in gub'mint. Hackneyed, no?
But MF Global, you see, had used client accounts' money to buy these contracts, seeing it as a surer bet than the barbarous relic, and also sold contracts for gold with no hope of making any delivery.
People standing for delivery of gold were the worst affected! Surprise!
Gold doesn't materialize magically out of the futures markets!
You have to mine it. Trouble is that gold, before its confiscated or swapped out has to be mined out of the ground.
Plus, if they hedged their delivery risk and shorted Gold they could have been in a very difficult position. They may not have had enough Money to cover those Shorts and Buy the Gold for delivery. Maybe that is where the Money went in losses on Short Positions.
I also wonder if the so called investment in the Debt of say Italian debt is just a smoke screen. Kind of look here and not over there. So, everyone is looking a the investment in say Italian debt instead of other trades or practices.
Also, if a lot of the Money went to JPM for a Margin Call so to speak maybe some of that Money was intended eventually to go to Corzine. Is it possible that JPM did a swap with Corzine. Give MF Global the Bad Italian Debt in exchange for something of value like covering some of their Gold Shorts below Market Value. Then the Italian Debt would cause a $600. Million. Margin Call to JPM which it would be agree to eventually find its way back to him after a Bankruptcy? Maybe thru some kind of Trust or Off Shore Account.
I hate to say it but I think I am starting to think like a Criminal.
They always say follow the Money and the Money is the $600. Million that is missing without a trace.
$600 million is chicken feed to this crowd. This is one of the things that have been bothering me about this debacle. Madoff made off with 50 times that.
My tin foil hat's been buzzing loudly. I wonder where JPM and BAC really are in this and if they were part of a much larger conspiracy to defraud.
In his frustration Gerald Celente declared he will follow in the footsteps of the great "NiKyle" Bass and start hoarding coins. He plans on differentiating himself from "NiKyle" by hoarding pennies.
Yep, what a Cosmic Joke
All those MF Global guys ready to "stand for delivery" got ass-raped by the PigMen.
That is why investing in gold and silver is actually riskier than most people realize.
That is why no more than a 10%-15% allocation is prudent.
If you want to invest in "hard assets", you are much better off buying fine wine, fine art, vintage automobiles, motorcycles, etc.
Why risk it with the Alpha-Thugs and PigMen in control?
Gerald Celente learned his lesson.
Who is next?
With the possible exception of (non-vintage) motorcycles, the is extra-stupid advice, even by Robo (WndySrf) standards.
"six figure" money for delivery doesn't make a dent on comex, it makes more sense to make a 30 min trip to the local coin dealer
yeah...if he really wanted 6 figures of gold, why the fuck would he mess with futures? The print SAYS that they can give you 3 kilos instead of 100 oz anyhow. It'd be easier to wire money and get a couple biscuits from CNI or something
Good post. I agree. Plenty of metal dealers in my area. Cash and carry!!!!!!!
Investing in the hard assets you mentioned has risk too, but at least you can enjoy them. I think the key now is being flexable and very cautious.
Robo who do you think is next?
Anyone with a brokerage or bank account is subject to the same ass-raping and that is the point of the OP.
Alpha Thugs and Pigmen don't control much if anything. That's just stupid drivel that Rasputin always posted. However, if you want to believe they do, be my guest.
Being flexible means being diversified and open to not having what you thought you did. Of course that applies across the board, to the Pigmen and Alpha Thugs to, particularly with regard to ones life. LOL!
As to fine wine, does it get you any drunker than cheap wine? If all the bits are disappeared, who will pay more for fine wine than mediocre wine if they just want to get drunk?
Celente had money in his account that disappeared. Thats not being a crybaby