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Guest Post: MF Global - A Fractal In A Frying Pan

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by MsCreant

MF Global: A Fractal in a Frying Pan

Gerald Celente, in an interview with Russia Today, claims he cannot access his PM trading account or get answers to his inquiries. It turns out Lind-Waldock, who he originally had the account with, was subsequently bought out by the now bankrupting MF Global. Understandably distraught, Celente asserts, “They took my money out of my account, six figures, and they have it. They closed out two of my positions, and I cannot get any answers, and I can’t get my money.”

Celente got many of us thinking—“If a guy like him can be refused access to his money, then who is safe?” Some argue he should not have been buying “paper gold.” Celente states that he was buying PM futures and taking delivery. “Max Keiser” the “Silver Bears” “Turd Fergusen” and more, have encouraged us to buy silver and “Bust the Comex.” Many of us here on Zero Hedge have fantasized in the comments section about someone wealthy enough to lay a few billion on the Comex for PMs and then stand for delivery. Celente, it is arguable, was doing this not only for himself but perhaps for Joe and Josephine Average who do not have the ammunition to fight this fight.

But as I got to thinking, I realized all of the above misses a valuable take away lesson. It is not simply the case that MF Global is a “first domino to fall” or a “canary in the coal mine” or a “harbinger of collapse.” MF Global is a fractal in a frying pan. Because of the defaults that must take place (municipal debt, sovereign debt, empty box MBS, CRE, I could go on and on), MF Global is showing us an early template, or fractal structure, for how these bankruptcies are going to manifest in our daily lives. MF Global is now falling out of the frying pan and into the fire and MANY OF US WILL FOLLOW. As the flow of bankruptcies increases, our everyday lived experience will be reshaped by the realities of the new structure as it is branded on our lives—financially and emotionally.

While Gerald Celente is crying about his lost six-figure account, Bill Fleckenstein also has personal money tied up with MF Global. He is hopeful that he will get it back but is critical of the authority figures involved. Celente does not expect to get all of his money back. Ann Barnhardt of Barnhardt Capital Management has shuttered its operations after six-years in the business. She did not feel like her clients’ funds were safe in the futures and options market any more. Lawrence Lepard, who posted on Zero Hedge, wonders if the MF Global failure was a hit job done by the Fed. My point is not about who is right or wrong (time will tell), but that we are getting an early, slow paced look at things to come—the story telling, guessing, shock, denial, hopeful strategizing, negotiations. The success, failure, triumph, rage, loss, and sorrow. As we move through time and defaults, the pace of people finding out that they “can’t get to their money” is going to pick up.

Today there is headline space to chide or support Celente and Fleckenstein. Today we have time to focus on what the one MF Global bankruptcy might mean about the state of the financial industry, the health of our economy, the impotence (or outright corruption) of our government regulatory agencies, and what it means for some of us as individuals. As more and more defaults and bankruptcies occur, more and more people will be claiming to have been robbed, crying about their lost retirement/college fund/income stream. They will not be news anymore. It will be the new normal. Before this is all over, most of us are going to claim we have had “our money taken” when, in reality, we are creditors who will be caught up in massive, multiple, overlapping, bankruptcy proceedings. We will want to focus on our individual situations—who did what with our money, why it was wrong, and who should go to jail. Many of us will also be the reason someone else has to go bankrupt. We will be their crook, their robber who did this that and the other with their money. And someone might want us to go to jail for it too. We are going to be at each other’s throats, in courtrooms and on the streets.

Gerald and Bill—you are not special. Today you can garner attention and sympathy (or contempt) for your plight. Tomorrow you will be but a grain of sand in an avalanche of financial discord, fuel long burned off in a raging firestorm that will consume everything, a fractal spark that flew out of the frying pan, giving us a glimpse of the future.

My husband read this and asked, “What do you advise?” At first blush, I find advice to be condescending. Who am I to advise? Buy precious metals? Have some cash on hand out of the banking system? Take all your cash out of the collapsing financial system? Stock up on some basics for emergencies? That might be decent advice but it is not the point. We need to be flexible. Focus on one individual’s situation, one company, or one country for that matter will soon be unsustainable. Few of us will escape the consequences of participation in the financial system. It is both broken and corrupt. Our “inability to get to our money” is going to cascade into each other’s lives, blowing up all kinds of relationships. We must keep our eyes and ears peeled for stories from multiple perspectives. This is why we read ZH.

 

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Sun, 11/20/2011 - 12:56 | 1895790 spinone
spinone's picture

The reason people won't be able to get to their money is because it wa illusory. As the rug is pulled out from under these illusory assets, the effect will be deflationary and people will lose confidence.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:17 | 1895947 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Currently that is truly the issue - the banking asset base on the TBTF banks IS ILLUSIONARY because if one considers the basis of politics if there was a viable means of exploiting the current situation SOME GROUP with adequate knowledge would have used it to their advantage - my concern grows because I believe that the TRUE circumstances MUST be EXTRAORDINARILY PROFOUND - The more research I conduct the more convinced I become  that the world's largest banks' asset base is compromised by some enormous amount...50%, 60%, 70%, 80%, 90%? - I think most governments are beginning to grasp that fact & they recognize that they cannot allow the general population to know...With such imbalances the next step is continued aggression...Iraq, Afghanistan, & little Libya...next Iran...God Bless the people of the world...May the truth , at some point, finally be published & understood and those responsible be prosecuted...

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:16 | 1895804 eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

If Gerald really wants physical gold, I don't see any point of buying future and standard for december delivery, especially when gold was on sale in september (did he really think price would fall further under 1,500?).  He's talking about "six figure" in positions so I guess he had two contracts worth $350,000.  That's just one trip to a coin dealer in Manhattan! The dealer in my area would probably charge 1.5% over spot for an order like that which means $5,250 fee.  The story just doesn't add up unless he's doing a little gambling and leveraging too.  

 

Maybe he reckened he could beat the "white shoe boys", "the gambinos" in their own rigged game?

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:07 | 1895810 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

great post MsCreant!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:16 | 1895821 beaker
beaker's picture

I bet he is now.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:21 | 1895827 Urban Roman
Urban Roman's picture

<= up

<= down

Auntie Stoneleigh's suggestion:

  1. Go here and open an account. 
  2. Whatever cash you can raise, put it into notes, 90 day or less.
  3. Keep rolling them over as needed.

You won't get any interest, but there will be no complex web of counterparty risk.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:28 | 1895830 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Great post.  Only on ZH.  Any solutions will have to occur outside the current cancerous squid system and will need to run parallel to the reality they create in the MSM or risk being sucked into the fractal vortex of their evil.

No better venue than the citizen's Internet to establish an international and democratic body for investigation and indictment. The community has to be more than communication.  We need actionable legal solutions to hold the criminals accountable. Corzine will be an interesting test case. We'll see if they flip inside that mob. RICO anyone?

Going to need a Truth Commission that will make The Nuremberg Trials look like a picnic.

http://www.infowars.com/5-reasons-why-the-establishment-media-fears-ron-...

"Establishment news agencies like MSNBC profit from the corrupt money printing policies of the Federal Reserve. MSNBC’s parent company, GE, has received billions of dollars of taxpayer money."

http://www.worldfinance.com/latest_news/1848-us-top-court-allows-fed-bai...

http://sadhillnews.com/2010/12/02/feds-secretly-bailout-ge-harley-davids...

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:52 | 1895890 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Want a solution? Read this. Edwin Vieira is the nation's foremost monetary scholar, lawyer and historian.

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin243.htm

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:04 | 1897713 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

"Only on ZH"

So totally agree. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:44 | 1895836 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

No one was yelling and screaming when so many People lost most or all of their Money in Bear Stearns, Washington Mutual, Countrywide, Ambac, AIG, Freddy Mack, Fanny Mae, New Century Mortgage, NFI.  Many of the Stock holders got wiped out just for the Government to give their equity to JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Goldman with AIG, etc.

They got away with it then and looks like they found another way to Rape and Pillage the average Investor.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:46 | 1895879 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Apples v Oranges. Shareholders versus segregated accounts. Account holders at the banks in your list were made whole.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:33 | 1895851 kujo
kujo's picture

Still my favorite

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:05 | 1895868 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

It is possible that there was a big enough player at MF Global that was causing problems for the TBTF like JPM or Goldman.  Or, maybe they wanted to take out someone like Gerald Celenti and that was the way to do it.

Maybe the missing $600. Million was payoff money to Corzine to orchestrate a failue.

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:45 | 1895874 Tao 4 the Show
Tao 4 the Show's picture

Fractal metaphor is worthwhile and the post makes a good point. Statistical modeling is wrong-headed at this point and I'll explain why:

Statistics are a fantastically useful approximation for many situations, but not a good representation of reality in many human situations. Using an extreme example just to make the point, after <20 B years of existence, how many times have duplicate human races formed and created this exact economic situation? Defined processes can be studied and modeled statistically, such as coin flips, cell membrane channel openings and quantum processes. Not macro economic situations.

Though statistics can model some types of trade activity, they simply mean nothing w.r.t. the huge imbalances that exist now. It would take a long post to explain this well, but I hope the point comes across to some extent.

You might do better with sand-pile statistics- as with avalanches or earthquakes, as they represent a system responding to applied forces while seeking equilibrium or balance. Most of the statistical models people use in markets apply to systems currently in equilibrium. Think that's where we are now?

No, this is more like an avalanche (though TPTB will try to control it to their own ends), and the little avalanches we see are the best image we can look to for guessing the bigger events ahead. I have found this approach helpful for many years.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:06 | 1897716 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Great observations. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:50 | 1895886 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Well done MsCreant - a very thought provoking & insightful post - when you consider the JPM 'Super-Priority' lien within the MF Global bankruptcy for the use of a lousy $8 million short term funding facility it truly is a tragic analogy to the current environment whereby the socialization of losses are emblematic of the fact that only certain individuals are insulated from all risks while others must accept their consequences on an ex post facto basis...truly a Thug Life...

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:43 | 1897717 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

The micro reflecting the macro. Thanks for your comment.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 13:59 | 1895903 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

I'm hearing that Celente knew he would lose his contracts and cash with MF Global and just let it happen. He said in an interview it was around $100,000 in question. He's worth quite a bit more so he didn't have most of his eggs in that particular basket. He's actually getting a nice return by being able to greatly amplify the coverage of the MF Global story by appearing on so many different media outlets. What better way to get this story in everybodies face and doing it in terms anyone can understand: "I was robbed and here's how and why it happened".

Many people never heard of or cared about Corzine until Celente's story hit Drudge Report and was cross linked all over the place. Celente's public profile has also increased greatly which isn't bad for his business either. I'd like to think he exposed himself to an affordable (for him) risk and let it blow up to get the story into many more grass-root level ears. Celente is now a household word discussed everywhere in the same breath with Corzine, Goldman's Sacks, MF Global and the Fed.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:00 | 1895916 Ron Real
Ron Real's picture

MF Global is certain a canary, but I wonder why no one mentions the ongoing Olypus case in Japan. Olypmus, while not bankrupt, yet, is in a $5 billion scdle. First, it was discovered that they pay out about $660 million in "fees" to small Cayman Island companies for facilitating deals to purchase some overvalued companies. Now that smells, but it gets better. It trns out they had lost billion in the early 90s and covered it up in the bookkeeping. The Cayman deal was just a way to get the books near right. Apparently the hole they were tring to cover is $.95 billion and they had called in the Yazuka to help.

Most "assets" in the financial world are ultimately of the same type, purely fictitious. While it might be a good idea to be "flexible", it can help only a bit. The volcanno is exploding, flexibility is of limited use.

 

I have no idea of how you, personally, can survive this, and certainly not "profit" from the coming of a new dark age. But there are things that can be done collectively.

 

Mr. Ocrap in the WH, just back from formenting a third World War in the Pacific, has to go, ASAP. The Emporor is totally dedicated to saving the collapsed Empire; he will not allow the necessary measures to be taken.

 

Which are: 1) Glass-Stegall in one form or another to applied across the world to allow an orderly bankruptcy of the decaying mess of bad paper, 2)emergency goverment credit to maintain populations until production can be resumed,  3)international agreemnet on fixed exchange rates, 4) long term massive physical develoment, exemplied by NAWAP and the China High-Speed railroads, and 5) a return to space.

 

I would suggest that the crietrion for a successful redevlopment plan is it would allow about 1 billion people to be living off earth by 2112, no less. That would be about 5 percent of human population.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:05 | 1895917 Ron Real
Ron Real's picture

MF Global is certain a canary, but I wonder why no one mentions the ongoing Olympus case in Japan. Olympus, while not bankrupt, yet, is in a $5 billion scandal. First, it was discovered that they paid out about $660 million in "fees" to small Cayman Island companies for facilitating deals to purchase some overvalued companies. Now that smells, but it gets better. It turns out they had lost billion in the early 90s and covered it up in the bookkeeping. The Cayman deal was just a way to get the books near right. Apparently the hole they were tring to cover is $.95 billion and they had called in the Yazuka to help.

Most "assets" in the financial world are ultimately of the same type, purely fictitious when traced to their source.

 

While it might be a good idea to be "flexible", it can help only a bit. The volcanno is exploding, flexibility is of limited use.

 

I have no idea of how you, personally, can survive this, and certainly not "profit" from the coming of a new dark age. But there are things that can be done collectively.

 

Mr. Ocrap in the WH, just back from formenting a third World War in the Pacific, has to go, ASAP. The Emporor is totally dedicated to saving the collapsed Empire; he will not allow the necessary measures to be taken.

 

Which are: 1) Glass-Stegall in one form or another to applied across the world to allow an orderly bankruptcy of the decaying mess of bad paper, 2) emergency goverment credit to maintain populations until production can be resumed,  3) international agreemnet on fixed exchange rates, 4) long term massive physical develoment, exemplied by NAWAP and the China High-Speed railroads, and 5) a return to space.

 

I would suggest that the criteria for a successful redevlopment plan is that it would allow about 1 billion people to be living off earth by 2112. That would be about 5 percent of human population. So wind power, recycling, bicycles etc. just won't cut it.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:13 | 1895938 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

You had me up until the techo-conucopia stuff.  We can't afford to maintain existing infrastructure - let alone build new.  The resources are now too scarce to produce at the low prices necessary for such development.  Personally, I'd like to see effective slow-rail before dumping scarce resources into high-speed folly.

Rather than "Up or Out," I think we should be looking more at an organized contraction and reduction in consumption.  

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:21 | 1895952 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

Ron real...get real...1/20th of the total population of the globe living in space in a hundred years!...There's no chance in hell that the pop. of the world will be 20 billion in a hundred years!  A great percentage of the pop. coulden't even handle being in a rocket launch let alone 'live' in space...

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:37 | 1897749 oldman
oldman's picture

Hey Ron,

Thanks for this:

"Mr. Ocrap in the WH, just back from formenting a third World War in the Pacific, has to go, ASAP. The Emporor is totally dedicated to saving the collapsed Empire; he will not allow the necessary measures to be taken."

I had the pleasure of being a guest of the organizer of Moana Nui 2011 last week in Honolulu which was an alternative conference to the APEC meetings held at the same time. One of the major topics of conversation was the US/China conversion of their sacred Pacific Islands into underwater mining sites and the likely division of broad swaths of the sea into 'Chinese Protectorates' or 'US Protectorates'. These peoples of the Pacific are aware of the threat and are attempting to organize resistance against the high probability of being exploited for everything they have while being completely helpless to do a thing about their coming dis-enfranchisement.

On Thursday, I was shocked to see come across the tv screen at the market where i was shopping:

"Obama Pledges Military Support For the Pacific";

because there is no war there except the one these two out-of-control monsters must be planning, probably together while we are all waiting for a 'black swan event'.

Doesn't anyone see that the masters of the universe have completely lost control and in their panic planning actions that are the model of their insanity? The little people know what is going on even if the former middle-class of the US do not. Even the little people here in the US know and are among the 99% on the streets in the rain and cold while we sit here and criticize and call them names denigrating the only patriots we have seen since the murders at Kent State.

When are 'we' going to support these 'dirty, lice-infested, ragged, leaderless animals' that are the only ones in the country fighting back wallstreet, the banks, and corrupt criminals that we allow to govern us?

I apologize for this preachiness, but I am very frustrated with the lack of support of many here at ZH who whine about Celente loss of $$$$ out of one side of their mouth and criticize the only activists who are standing against all injustice.

Sorry, Ron---I got out of control and started to burn up the more I thought about all of this, but it is ALL_CONNECTED. I really want to congratulate you for your raising the coming war in the Pacific issue because it is being planned as I write this.

thanks again      om

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:29 | 1895973 tradewithdave
tradewithdave's picture

Thought for the day.... let's say you are the powers that be and you do want to hit the RESET button, but you need to make it look like the people hit the reset button... you didn't.

What better way to do it than to reach out and touch someone (i.e. creditors who thought they were bank account holders in MFGlobal) to start the cascade for you? 

First people start liquidating futures accounts.  Then they start liquidating equity brokerage accounts.  Then bank accounts.  But it takes a whole lot to get people to do actually do this.  When you can use a debacle like MFGlobal to legally steal, but at the same time you can invoke price suppression on precious metals through frozen accounts and increasing margin requirements, you cover your tracks pretty well because there's no panic in the market.  Those who would scream (via their account activity) have a handkerchief over their mouth soaked in ether. 

The Fed Is Dead... Long Live The Fed

www.tradewithdave.com

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:24 | 1896049 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Interesting thesis. That is why I believe it a hit. But still have a hard time with creditor appellation . Segregated account holders are not creditors by law. Now we can ignore the law, and perhaps that helps get the ball rolling. But I see red when u call me a creditor.

Of course, silly me, believing in rule of law. My bad. It is so hard to operate with a "reality based community paradigm" when we are clearly going down the rabbit hole.

Possession is nine/tenths ........my new motto

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:40 | 1895987 macktheknife
macktheknife's picture

Good to see you writing full pieces, MsCreant - and Tylers- please continue to support her writing.   I have read through the comments, and I don't fault any of the critics of this peiec - this is Fightclub, afterall.  Reading this peice gave me that feeling of watching you own middleschool daughter sing in her first school play:  you want her to be Lea Salonga, and you just love the fact that she is up there trying. 

What the critics miss is a few years of MsCreant participating in the comments - showing an extremely consistent wit and humor and humanity - she is never mean, and always tries to add intelligent interaction - a Den Mother kinda thing.  And, she has built longterm friendly relationships with a lot of the original posters -Turd, Rocky,Cog Dis, Do Chen, TMos, and Crockett - almost daily interactions over a few years.    It has been fun to watch regular commenters be given a space to write a full essay - we saw Cog Diss do it.

When I used to participate in comments, it was frustrating becasue, although I had strong feelings about these financial issues, and could use logic to tease out the issues -what was frustrating was that I didn't have ANY actual real experience in these issues.  We all want to be Bruce Krasting, but we don't have the years of experience.  Yet, like MsCreant, , many of us come to ZH, and want to participate.   How, then, do you participate, when you don't have the experince yourself?   Well, a bunch of us have experience in buying metals- and maybe in guns and warfare - and can occasionaly participate- or we have particular knowledge of Peru or Africa, and can participate when the topic relates.

What is clear is - there is a different world at ZH - that exists in the comments - and is difficult to take out to the main articles; as much fun as it would be to give Trav or Johhny Bravo a daily article, like Bruce Krasting gets - it wouldn't work.   The Tylers DO have a good sense of what works, and who has earned the right to participate: and MsCreant has certainly earned the chance.   As ZH grows - it obviously must stick MOSTLY to finances; but people also come here to learn what TMos is thinking, and Rocky Raccoon- and I can't put my finger on it, nut I am also fascinated to follow DoChen Rolling - how he has managed to  make a Ball Bearing business in Peru - a fascinating story - I don't think can be explained.

There is a part for MsCreant, and I would like to see more.   My only advise is - MsCreant:  write what you know about - there is a real person behind this avatar, and we trust you.  Next article, why don't you dig deep into your own experience, and tell us a story about something that you feel very deeply.  Why don't you write something that has nothing to do with the economy.    All those years of watching Ed McMahon on Johhny Carson show.  Night after night, he had absolutely no reason to be there. Somehow, though, he was perfect.  You really can't explain that.  MsCreant, you are like that in the comment section, and ZH is right to support you.  I look forward to learning more of what you are seeing.  Now I need to figure out how to get all the beautiful titty Avatars to come over to my Ranch House for a party - I actually had a dream like that, but woke up French Kissing  Robot Traders Mom, and found a discarded Raccoon Tail in my underwear,  and I just felt sick to my stomach.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 00:45 | 1897618 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

you speak like somone is interested..?

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:12 | 1897720 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You always leave wonderful things for me to find (Almost, there was that one post where I was a little naive about what you were up to). Thanks for the great support!!

I'm not sure I'll ever write another thing like this again. The muse grabbed me and I followed. The muse grabs you by the balls here and there, does she not? 

I would leave you a titty tribute, if I could, only because it would make you happy.

Thanks again.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:44 | 1895997 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

"Double-Tap" the financial bastards and anyone who gets in your way........ Country's work when the the government fears the people. Not the other way around.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 14:48 | 1896012 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Excellent essay, MsCreant.  "Fractal in a frying pan" is a most delicious construct, and a perfectly apt description.  This is why I have been 100% physical in ALL my assets for going on 3 years now.

-Chumblez.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:13 | 1897721 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

High praise from you dude. Love you.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:15 | 1896087 michael___c
michael___c's picture

ms-creant addresses the human condition's 'new normal.' being a creditor and seeing the impact on relationship, being there, doing that. 

flexible, yes, mentally, zen, beginner's mind, no expectations, no past, no future, seeing these as mental projections only. that's the inner meaning of 'zero hedge,' is it not?

negativity just feeding the globalist agenda. freedom: a rifle, can of beans and gold bars? or a light, detached heart and calm present mind? (both, i think...)

just watched the 'thrive' movie. talks about repressed free energy inventions. buckminster fuller suggested electrical energy as basis of currency. only way to inflate that would be to open up new (i.e. zero-point) sources. 'two roads diverge...'

i personally may or may not survive. for sure, if i do it will not look like it does today. who said something like, being condemned to hang reallyclears a man's mind?
lol, cheerio

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:15 | 1897722 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am working on all of this. I was pissed off at my banker recently. My neighbor told me, "Don't take it personally, MsCreant." I didn't like it at the time (I have a "right" to be pissed, after all) but his wisdom bore into me like a Koan. This is our error. Thanks for the post.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:40 | 1896163 Hillbillyfreak
Hillbillyfreak's picture

Celente, this is the trend forecasting guy, right?  Well, it seems there is one trend he didn't forecast -- not being able to access the "money" in your account at your financial institution of choice when the SHTF.  

And don't tell me this is different; that the money is lost because of fraudulent, criminal activity.  It's not different.  The whole monetary system has been fraudulent for however long.  The debt bubble is imploding.  It is only a matter of time before everyone understands what is happening.   

The fractal is missing one key element and that's - retribution.  That's a polite way of saying it.  If Mr. Fleck and Mr. Trend Guy want their money back they might think about starting their own Occupy movement and begin with one of Mr. Corzines homes.  

   

 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 19:38 | 1896826 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+1 Hillbilly... Mansions... Or estates...

Corzine lives in mansions and estates... not houses...

Well his ex wife does anyway...

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:54 | 1896207 Monedas
Monedas's picture

 It's worser than we thunk it wuz ! I'm not one to say, "I told you so !" ....... "Hoarders have more fun !".....maybe ! I'm restrained by my modest procedures ! Even I, the Monedas, thought they would at least give you your paper filth back ! These aren't shots accross the bow or glove slaps to the exposed cheek......these are down and dirty GUT SHOTS ! They are desperate.....you be decisive ! Fuck 'em any way you can ! Monedas 2011 Comedy Jihad Government Abuse Audit Center 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 15:56 | 1896216 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I've been outside of the mainstream economy pretty much my entire life & I have my money where I can get my hands on it without having to ask someone first.  Anybody who ever fully trusted this system has not been paying attention -- even in good times it was a fraud -- but too many people were making money and thinking everything was great.  Better figure out a way to keep what you have because it's game over, folks.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 17:17 | 1896427 alzaebo
alzaebo's picture

I've always looked forward to MsCreant's posts.

Her kindness and intelligence shine through.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:22 | 1897729 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

:-) Thanks!

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 19:31 | 1896805 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"We must keep our eyes and ears peeled for stories from multiple perspectives. This is why we read ZH."

+5... Well said
As for G. Celente and his derivatives funds being stolen by JPM... by way of MF Global...

Gerald,

 

You sat at their table and played with their cheating dealer and their marked deck... What did you think was going to happen??

 

If you had bought gold and silver and taken delivery like us unsophisticated investors... you might get burned on one order... but nobody could get their paws on your six figures...

 

You know they are crooks. You know they are snakes. Snakes have no spine and wheel around and bite you the first chance they get...

 

So why are you surprised when they do so?

 

Much Love, Problem Is.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:21 | 1897728 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I agree, AND they are theives and he is no less a victim of theives. All of us get seduced by "something for nothing" at one time or another in this economy. I know I am not perfectly innocent. I bought a house hoping the value would increase (it did). And inflation nails our ass. And now deflation. 

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 20:00 | 1896931 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Every individual's experience of the coming storm will be as unique and varied as the opinions expressed on these pages each and every day. Many of us will be seen as victims by some, perpetrators by others. Anyone who has more than another will be challenged.

Every one of our lives is about to grow into it's own unique crystal. Polish your own as best you can.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:18 | 1897724 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Bingo. No more to say. Thanks. I hope you are well. I'll leave you stuff, or you will leave me stuff, and we never seem to hook up.

Life is good. 

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 08:07 | 1897904 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Though we do often pass like ships in the night, it is a deep comfort knowing that there are people like you sailing the same stormy seas. 

Life is getting more complicated lately, but my attitude about the changes is getting better every day. Stay safe.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 20:15 | 1896978 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Wow, welcome to the big league MsCreant.  I am reminded of how thrilled I was when Banzai started as a real life ZH contrib and that turned out so great.  Good Luck!  I am looking forward to your posts. :-))

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:18 | 1897726 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am not sure I will ever post again! Thanks.

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 20:42 | 1897043 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

Hate to rain on the parade.......but there is no flexibility. Either you have physical PMs, or you have a mirage. Any fiat or financially "flexible" instrument that you decide to use is out of your control. You only think you have it. Rules are non-existent because THEY CAN BE CHANGED AT WILL.  Therefore, we have no rules.  PMs are the ONLY thing that hold eternal value, difficult to confiscate today, and are portable.  You cannot outrun the squid........

Sun, 11/20/2011 - 23:41 | 1897487 saulysw
saulysw's picture

Submitted by MsCreant = Yay! Get comfy and read with pleasure.

Great comments too. With very few exceptions, lot's of love to from the ZH crowd.

As for the subject on hand. Hmmm. I think I am suffering from "precipice fatigue", if such a thing exists. We've been on the edge for so long now that I'm starting to admire the view instead of being terrified of the fall.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 02:26 | 1897736 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I think you have a valid critique. I commented to someone that others here can disagree and do it without being ugly. Thanks for being who you are.

I too have precipice fatigue. I call it collapse fatigue. I'll stand by the thesis though, intersecting, exponentially increasing, defaults that will restructure everything. May not be now. May take enough years to happen that I'll be dead and this will be my kids problem, not mine. I have to assume it is mine and plan accordingly. I know you have too. Always enjoy you and your avatar!! Kind of peaceful.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 03:00 | 1897757 saulysw
saulysw's picture

My fine wife just handed me a glass of wine, and the smell of dinner is wafting into the study. So, life is still good, right? Cheers to you.

Mon, 11/21/2011 - 00:42 | 1897611 Clowns on Acid
Clowns on Acid's picture

It's simple....where is Jon Corzine...?

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