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Guest Post: More Government, Less Wages
Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics
More Government, Less Wages
Yes; correlation does not prove causation. Yes; there are lots and lots and lots of other factors involved — the end of Bretton Woods, globalisation, deindustrialisation, the birth of the computer and the internet, financialisation, the United States’ growth into a global imperial power and more recently the beginnings of a decline.
But whatever the exact causality this does not make happy reading for those who lean toward the idea that more government involvement in the economy translates to a bigger share of the pie for the working class.
Quite the opposite — while wages have just hit an all-time low, corporate profits have just hit an all-time high:
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Both scales are percentages, so why not put both plots on one scale?
ot. ...but...it appears that no more comments are allowed at marketwatch....
Who gives a fuck about Marketwatch, again?
On topic: How surprising that if gov't gives money to corporations, they have more money, but the people who provide that money (tax slaves) don't?
WHAT. A. SHOCKER.
Lets turn to our prevaricator in chief for some real answers...
"The truth of the matter is that, as I said, we created 4.3 million jobs over the last 27 months, over 800,000 just this year alone."
First off, what do you mean by..."we"? Is that we, as in you (in government) or we out here trying to live, work, create jobs and raise families?
And would those numbers be gross or net jobs?...they're gross aren't they?
"The private sector is doing fine."
At who's expense and by what measure?
Are we speaking about publicly traded companies where one person does the work of five as board members are issued stock that they dump into a stock market as soon as it vests which is propped up by state permitted algos?
"Where we're seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government. Oftentimes cuts initiated by, you know, Governors or mayors who are not getting the kind of help that they have in the past from the federal government and who don't have the same kind of flexibility as the federal government in dealing with fewer revenues coming in."
By flexibility you mean destroying the currency people accept as their wages by just issuing more debt & printing more money...right?
So your solution is for us to allow you to print more in order give more to those who didn't really earn it and to hire more state & local government workers to oversee it all who can't be supported through the tax base already.
Oh, thats just fucking brilliant.
Bingo. The Public Sector has grown exponentially in the last five years with the average "do nothing" bureaucrat bringing in about 120K a year.
The private sector is working to barely survive, while one worker does the job of four, lives on less than 40K a year for a family of four, and owes more in taxes and interest on debt that can't possibly ever be paid.
This poor overworked and underpaid guy is supposed to support that bureaucracy which is destroying his job, destroying his paycheck, destroying his family, destroying his health, destroying his marriage, and LOVE it.
So, he is just supposed to keep his mouth shut, run happily on his hamster wheel, pay taxes and vote.
What a crock.
The literature on the relationship between the size of government and economic growth is full of seemingly contradictory findings.
This conflict is largely explained by variations in definitions and the countries studied. An alternative approach - of limiting the focus to studies of the relationship in rich countries, measuring government size as total taxes or total expenditure relative to GDP and relying on panel data estimations with variation over time - reveals a more consistent picture.
The most recent studies find a significant negative correlation: An increase in government size by 10 percentage points is associated with a 0.5 to 1 percent lower annual growth rate.
We discuss efforts to make sense of this correlation, and note several pitfalls involved in giving it a causal interpretation.
Against this background, we discuss two explanations of why several countries with high taxes seem able to enjoy above average growth: (i) that countries with higher social trust levels are able to develop larger government sectors without harming the economy, and (ii) that countries with large governments compensate for high taxes and spending by implementing market-friendly policies in other areas. Both explanations are supported by current research.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1734206&download=yes
The government sector, federal, state, and local, has grown from 26% in the 1950s to 42% today.
ROUGHLY.......
From 1600's to 1901( ish ) total gov tax, fed/state/local take was under 10%. We conquered the wilderness, built ever house, farm, city, port, railroad, mills, foundries, mine, canal, factory.
Up until FDR the combined take was around 15%. Buisness began to flee the industrial north.
After FDR, citizens began to flee their great cities, built by their grandfather's. Buisnesses flee the nation.
Now people talk of fleeing America and its high cost of government, which can not be supported by citizen taxes anymore, but must by printing and foreign governments.
public sector didn't get better....they just kept their labor agreements throughout the years of outsourcing, union-busting, 401k no match retirement plans, at-will employment in the private sector.
private sector got worse.
private sector became SO BAD that it is worse than public sector.
average household income should be $90k inflation adjusted. private sector gave up $30k because they thought they were capitalists and voted for anti-labor politicians. ALL the good jobs have unions idiots....doctors get half of their money from government, pilots get government training, lawyers get power from government, etc.....
THIS IS WHAT THIRD WORLD IS LIKE.....
private sector is exploited so much by the oligarchy that government jobs look better in comparison......
Also, in Japan, the best of the best want government jobs!!!!! imagine that after lost decades, outsourcing, job -insecurity, loss of benefits, no over time, etc.
And half of that bureaucracy is run by Wall St banks (i.e. JPM and the issuing of EBT cards).
let me tell you who gives a fuck....they shut opinion down...so you can no longer show the author is spreading bullshit....i dont use the sight except for a quick chart...and i have recently noticed the sheep on those sights based on their comments are starting to get it......so you and everybody should give a fuck...or will you only give a fuck when they shut our hedge down?
I won't give a fuck if/when they shut ZH down except that it will be the signal to disappear. By then it will have done it's purpose, and will come back if there is a purpose for it.
Marketwatch, Yahoo Finance, etc. are MSM muppet manipulators. Fuck anyone who is too willfully stupid to make investment decisions off a bunch of obvious lying sacks of shit, and fuck anyone who believes the gov't after 60 years of outrageous lies and crimes against it's own citizens.
How long until ZH gets shutdown? 2 yrs? 3? Is that time period too kind?
ZH won't get shut down. It is far too valuable for "intelligence gathering".
Now the MSM is telling the people to get a job they must have a facebook account or they are hiding something. What a joke. Now he people will all rush out and get an account. We were laughing and discussing how the MSM manipulates people into thinking Facebook will now equal a job. You just cannot make this crap up.
Most HR people I know could care less about facebook!
Marketwatch is just full of programmatically written content anyways.
Are prisoners who are now in our prison system and work for .60 cents an hour, considered "Gov't Workers" so that the aggregate wages for all government workers now lowered as a result?
So the more and more people that are convicted of "Crimes against the State" and funneled into the system would continue to suppress overall wages?
where's that list of the top 400 wealthiest people in the u.s.
Wages definitely took a turn downward in the 70's. Gold standard disconnect?
The closing of the gold window and the off shoring of jobs go hand in hand.
Adam Smith used the phrase "invisible hand" not to describe general market action but rather to describe the unconscious action by which individuals support domestic industry over foreign industry. Note that this effect only occurs in economies which use sound money. The modern US dollar standard actually encourages off-shoring as there is no desire to maintain wealth within a nation if that wealth is denominated in debt backed currency units.
Hype Alert...the three drivers of lower wages are;
1. More government, larger transfer payments coming out of paycheck.
2. No immigration laws and 20 million illegals.
3. Inflation transfers wealth to recipients of the counterfeit cash and capital owners.
http://usa-wethepeople.com/2011/09/income-inequality-explained-for-robert-reich/
but underlying all of those drivers is one critical factor....
easy credit to dupe wage earners think that they have not been sold out.
but now we know.....and the whole world knows too.
that's why elites are scared......SLAVES HAVE DISCOVERED THAT THEY ARE SLAVES AFTERALL BUT DESERVE BETTER!
The slaves have found the caps lock key. There's going to be hell to pay.
"By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry,..." The endless rigged casino aspect of the US stock markets, and the lack of accountability of Corzine et. al. for their crimes (which in itself constitutes a crime by Holder et. al. and Gensler et. al.) has driven me to diversify abroad; in one account of 45 positions, fully 20 are XXXXF holdings (in foreign securities). Canadian junior miners and similar elsewhere are volatile, but I'm not convinced the foreign stock exchanges are as corrupted as the US ones (yet). No mutual funds, no ETFs, no MMs, just real companies that make real junk, dig real holes in the ground and create real value. Two financials (AOD and CXS) which actually invest and make money somehow (for their dividend cash flow). Why buy Freakbook and MyTrace and waste capital? I just don't understand how either stays in business, so I didn't get involved in these social media IPOs. Then again, I'm not rich (yet), so YMMV.
One should not discount the imapact of the increase in size of the labor force as women entered the picture.
Families needed more income>>>>>>Moms went to work>>>>>>Wages declined>>>>>>Families needed more money>>>>>More moms went to work>>>>>Wages declined further>>>>>and so on....
You have the cart before the horse I am afraid. Women went to work... increasing the supply of labor and driving down wages... which forced more women to work to support a family lifestyle... which drove down wages further.
Another effect of women entering the workforce was that work which had been undertaken outside the control of taxmen and bankers came under their control when services such as child care and food preparation were taken over by day care centers and restaurants. "Women's work" performed outside the home for profit could then be denominated, tracked, taxed and borrowed against. The elites scored big on women's liberation as it allowed them to extract a percentage from forms of labor which had been previously untouchable by them.
+10
Cast that tax net wide, haul in the tax slaves, extract their wallets and send them to the IRS Processing Plant.
And now women are dying from what used to be men ailments. The whole concept was to get women to work to increase the tax base and further devalue the dollar. We must have growth!
On top of that, women "tow the line" and tend to be more unconditionally obedient (unless they are fucking you).
That's why women tend to be human resources people or middle managers - a male slave is less likely to snap back and have a "clubhouse moment" with a woman than a male. "Politically correct" is really just another term for "censor yourself".
Yet, women aren't the majority of CEOs, Executive boards, because it is still a man's world. The women-to-male wage differencial, proves that.
" while wages have just hit an all-time low"
Thousands of federal retirees collect six-figure pensions
stop being mindfucked. Think about this.
400 americans have more wealth than the bottom 50% of all america COMBINED. 4 fucking hundred.
400, more wealth than 150,000,000 combine.
One more time for the slow. take all the wealth of 150 MILLION americans, add it together, the top 400 rich pukes have more.... you getting this yet??
Focus on the 400
It has nothing to do with being mindfucked, making the argument that 20 fleas taking 1/20 oz. of blood each from my ankle isn't as bad as one leech removing 1 oz. from my neck is silly.
All the parasites need to go, the middle class hosts need both groups to die off. Are you getting this yet?
you dont get it, its not a 20 to 1 ratio? the 400 are like one vampire sucking you dry and killing you. meanwhile THEY DO LITTLE TO NOTHING FOR YOU. Meanwhile your new mindfucked induced boogeyman ( the public worker), actually teaches your kids, are willing to die for your safety, cleans your streets, builds your roads, etc etc
You are indeed MINDFUCKED
So, do you hate Soros or the Koch's more?
fuck em all, Christ you think anyone of them gives a rat's ass about us.
How many millionaires did Bill Gates create?
Doesn't matter how many. It doesn't make up for the thousands of women he helped sterilize without their knowledge or consent.
FUCKING NONE... demand for a said product or service creates prosperity, not people. Learn your history asshole, it was actually Xerox that created the windows/OS operating systems of today. Apple and Microsoft "borrowed" it from a naive Xerox.
Christ Im so tired of stupid people. DEMAND creates jobs, not rich fuckers.
Wrong, asshole, over 10,000.
And if no one is there to fill the demand there can be no prosperity for anyone, correct? So I will assume Xerox could prove their claims, sued and won?
On a lighter note...after much searching, I've found a small business that Obama-Biden is helping out ;-)
The Crumb & Get It Bakery...be sure to click on the video.
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/wdbj7-radford-business-owner-declines-joe-bidens-request-to-stop-in-store-20120815%2c0%2c4370357.story
Teachers, streetcleaners, police, and road crews are state employees, not federal.
You are aware of the three tiered governmental structure in the US, yes?
They should all be privatized.
Privatization implies that the government should collect funds for such services and distribute it to providers in the private sector. It would be far better to let individuals retain their earnings and obtain the services which they desire on a free market basis.
I think I agree. IMO privatization implies the community raises funds however they see fit and bids it out.
That's what I meant
Just saying that privatization is one of those words which has been co-opted by hypocrites and so is no longer available in an unsullied interpretation by those who actually mean what they say. It's similar to the way the words capitalism and freedom have been perverted to mean the opposite of their true definitions. It's difficult to stay ahead of the propagandists and their distortion of language.
Nothing you mentioned HAS to be done by the government.
Trillions stolen, trillions destroyed, hundreds of millions killed.
Government, what is it good for?
Absolutely nothing!
War. It's what government does best.
Government = violence. Pure and simple. If you like violence then vote for more government.
Forget the 400. Focus instead on the politicians and TPTB that created the rules & the conditions which allowed the 400 to prosper at the expense of and on the backs of others.
Destroy the rules that have perverted the system, restore it to the beginning. Stop the government from picking winners and losers.
Limit the government, tie it down, restrain it.
I do not care 1 whit how much others acquire, as long as I am free to do as I choose without government interference, as long as I do no harm to others.
You just identified the fundamental flaw in libertarian reasoning. You blame government for giving power to the 400, yet the 400 seized that power by force against the will of most Americans. They control the system by bribery and corruption. If you take away elected government, they have no middle man and they exercise their same power directly. Just try to prove by any example in history that these same sociopaths will somehow just go away and behave themselves without government. History proves they will stay in control, and crown themselves.
They are not behaving themselves with increasing amounts of government so the solution is to double down on more government!? Sorry wrong "cure." Will they go away? No, but there are ways to minimize their destructive impact. There are plenty of examples if you care to look, its called decentralization and what it does is give those parasites too many hosts to choose from therefore they can't co-opt the means of coercion (thank you 2nd Amendment) in such a unified fashion over such a large population. See Tower of Babel for an ancient example.
And a real free market contains competition which by its very nature is decentralizing.
+1
Over just the last 40 years, our government has grown and the corporations and TPTB have all grown...so where is there any evidence anywhere that government restrains them in any way, shape or form????? Government ENABLES them with tax codes and regulations and stifles us.
a lot of those bankers would be gone now if there wasn't any government inteference/intervention.
You honestly think those 400 do not make up most of TPTB to begin with?
As for restoring it to the beginning ...in the beginning there was land to homestead. How exactly do you want to restore that?
Homestead 1.2 million sq. miles of federal land?
Well I guess turning the national parks into patchworks of small farming plots is on some level preferable than waiting till the US gives up on democracy entirely and sells them to the rich to fence and build new mansions in ... still, not going to have much room for wild life left then in the end.
Sounds like a James Ashby solution.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_AzEeIGznU
I suppose the universe will stop existing if we don't have government run parks.
I didn't say that ... I said that if you divided up the existing national parks using homesteading rules (ie. you have to farm it) you would leave little room for wild life.
If you took all of the 400s wealth, all of their property, homes, jets, yachts, all of their companies, shares, bonds, everything and sols them and their children to Columbian crack pumps..... you could run the Federal Government for four months. One time only.
Then who's at your door, wanting to thieve you?
In theory we, the bottom people could with a years work, buy the 400. Lock, stock and barrel. But fedgov? We don't make in a year, all of, everything to run it for 4 months.
but if you took all the gov't buildings and all the land and all the tanks/ship/planes/nukes etc that the gov't says it owns and sold it to the local business men and investors and savers --and gave the money to the tax payers (who paid for it in the first place)--then what???? hummmm??
Fuck that 400 rich people straw man bullshit--
Its "your" gov't that needs to go--- wake up
crawldaddy
Stop using Class Warfare and look at Cronyism. If the top in your opinion isn't paying Taxes who is paying them? The bottom pays nothing or very little & I only say little because someone will come along and say they pay sales taxes. Warren Buffet is in the top 400 but he purposely pay's himself a smaller salary the rest he hides in Tax Exempt foundations for example so raising taxes wouldn't affect him at all. Therefore if it is the productive society that are the ones paying the taxes then how much more do you think they can afford to pay? Taxes for roads/schools are one thing but wealth redistribution is quite another.
Chart: A look at who pays the income tax in America
Obama Calls for More Redistribution of Wealth, Declaring: ‘I Am My Brother’s Keeper’
MY BROTHER'S KEEPER? '2016' STAR PICKS UP OBAMA'S BROTHER'S MEDICAL TAB
Report: 49 of Fortune 500 companies had negative federal tax rate in Obama’s first year
http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/04/report-49-of-fortune-500-companies-had-negative-federal-tax-rate-in-obamas-first-year/
rich man , poor man, blind man, straw man bullshit---its the gov't ---wake up. They are the bottomless pit you throw wealth into. everyones wealth-- the bunch the rich guy has and the meager lot of the poor man--wake up.
PFfffttt.. the welfare queens on wall street make that much IN A FEW HOURS
The 'welfare queens of wall street' derive their privileges from the State. Do you think people would leave their deposits with rehypothecating banks if they knew the government weren't going to bail out the bank when it inevitably over leverages? Do you think 'the 400' would be anywhere as wealthy as they are if the (supposed) TBTF hadn't been bailed out by the State?
Do you think the policymakers pander to government employees so they will continue to vote them in... so that 'the 400' who pull the strings can continue to rape and pillage through the captured monetary system?
The 'top 400' and the government parasites aren't two separate issues - they're inextricably linked.
Up until FDR, if a bank went bust, the owners, stockholders too..were personally libel. Everything they owned could be seized, and further debts upon them for the rest of their lives. Maybe, dimmly, you recall stories of in the 1929 Wall Street crash of men throeing themselves out windows. It wasn't because they were broke, but that they lost clients money.
But that was the ethos of those pre welfare, pre scientific socialism times.
We live amongst the effects of 60 years of leftist socialism intervention and control. So anything you see now from welfare to schools to the markets is totally the responsibility of leftist. You can not so much as change the paint color on your house with out permission. Little girls selling lemonade are shut down br gun carrying union cops. Outside of your thoughts there is no private sector, no zero, none private market.
yeah, lets go back to the days of monopolies, trusts, and no worker rights. You are a fucking idiot. Like many others here. You think you dont need anyone or anything, its so fucking laughable, its sad and pathetic at the same time.
You want no government, go live in any number of failing countries over in afriac. Head on over, I'm waiting, its a liberterians paradise.
You libs are so full of shit.
Gee we had the highest growth rates AND highest labor wages, fastest labor mobility, highest living standard in the world. European elites were insulted at the wages, wealth, dress and life style of their once subservient workers they met stateside. Workers, money litterally flooded the nation.
Yeah, lets not trust free people, freely organizing.
/sarc
Talk about Uncle Sam's messing with things....
RE might stabilize (it will never recover to the prior supernatural NINJA Bubble Highs), if the Gubbermint stops intervening and lets market forces do their thing. Moral hazard now rules so builders, realtors, lenders, banks, and even the buyers don’t care whether or not the buyer can actually afford the house or pay off the mortgage.
The builder wants to sell the box and get his profit…the realtor wants her commission…lenders the fees and the banks want their cut too…and the buyer wants a free near zero down house (which he can walk away from at his whim) --- they all pass any risk on to the taxpayers via the FHA and other Gubbermint channels. Until his chain of recklessness is broken, the housing market will remain broken.
how about the price of milk? price support. how about the price of coke? price support(nmake it illegal and the price goes up) . how about the price of fuel. (military bids raise the price) how about insurance (make it manditory and the price rises with out losing customers) Everything -I mean everything is corrupted because the govt's are involved. Ezcept life--that gets cheaper till your life ain't worth shit--
Fucken government jobs with all their bennies. Government employees need to get real job out in the private sector.
Guvment is bad and taxes are theft. Please jerk me off with upvotes.
How about you comment in a reasonable and slightly more intelligent way and then we consider the up vote.
wow! what a mindfucked idiot you are. So being a marine, teacher, fireman, etc arent real jobs?
You sir are an idiot..
you think marines, teachers and firemen are the preponderence of govt jobs? How many teachers, marines and firemen were here: http://www.glittarazzi.com/players/112607-jeffrey-neely-vegas-gsa-photos.html
mindfucked, mindfucked, mindfucked.
Suprise the top 1% dont make you go around clucking like a chicken.
nice retort, Jeff. Good luck on the job search.
Taxes come out of wages, profits, or shareholder value. Which of these things is easiest to outsource to China, with tax benefits too?
Taxes are economic friction.....and the more friction you have, the more energy it takes to overcome it. Especially if your economy is at a standstill....
Wake the fuck up, there has not been a "free market" or true price discovery for many many years. Isn't fascism great? You can keep the profits but pass the debt on to the taxpayer all the while shipping more jobs overseas and demanding that your workers accept less pay while they pay for your failures and you keep the fat salary. I love the crony state < sarc off >
LawsofPhysics
And lie with "impunity" free trade is one thing fair trade is quite another. In reality Trade Agreements are not a free market they are filled with government intervention. A perfect example was NAFTA the politicians through those agreements have limited the sale of American products in foreign countries, Tariff's are not equal, the environmental protection that the same politicians pushed in the U.S. is not applicable to the foreign countries, etc.
Flashback
Obama’s trail of broken promises The prophet of hope now doesn't even bother with explanations when he reneges on his campaign pledges.
snip
After the New York Times recently reported that “the administration has no present plans to reopen negotiations on NAFTA” as “Obama vowed to do during his campaign,” there was no explanation offered whatsoever. We were left to recall Obama previously telling Fortune magazine that his NAFTA promises were too “overheated and amplified” to be taken literally.
It’s true that politicians have always broken promises, but rarely so proudly and with such impunity.
in full http://www.salon.com/2009/06/06/sirota_17/
Clinton seeks to re-evaluate NAFTA
snip
Democratic presidential frontrunner Hillary Rodham Clinton distanced herself Monday from one of her husband's signature White House achievements, saying NAFTA should be reassessed and "adjusted" and any new free trade agreements postponed.
"I think we do need to take a deep breath and figure out how we can make it work for the greatest numbers of people," she told USA TODAY. Clinton said NAFTA's benefits have gone to the wealthy and cost jobs for working people. She said a "timeout" in new accords would last until she felt the issue of trade in the 21st century had been adequately studied.
In 1993, Bill Clinton signed the North American Free Trade Agreement, which lifted most tariffs on goods traded among the United States, Mexico and Canada.
The New York senator said she has no qualms about splitting with her husband on a key economic point — one in which he battled fellow Democrats and their union allies. "Part of leadership is continuing to evaluate what we currently do to figure out if we can do it better," she said.
Yet ironically
Labor Silent in Opposing NAFTA-Style Korea Free Trade; Here’s Where They Used to Stand
Crony capitalism = monolopy capitalism. They go hand in hand, and both have the same effect of sticking it to the working class and enriching those at the top. No doubt the actions of the government captured by big business are not worker friendly. But concluding that the solution is no government role in the markets is akin to telling a cancer patient that all radiation is bad for him. Most radiation is bad. Some types of radiation, properly controlled and delivered, will kill cancer and save the patient. Same with government. We'd all prefer to just be cancer free, but those darn oligarchs keep popping up like tumors.
Your choice of cancer as an analogy is apt.
Limited Govt.is an oxymoron.
Its very nature is too replicate like a tumor,until all the host organism is
is squeeezed out of existence.
Ying and Yang.The eternal fight between liberty and the enchroaching state.
Yang is winning handsomly at this point .
We are all Ying now.
An excerpt on the cancer analogy from https://charliefoxtrotnation.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/consent-is-neither...
Crony capitalism = monolopy capitalism = Fascism
The Vampire Economy by Gunter Reimann available at www.mises.org
So are you depending on Dr. Barry or Dr. Mitt to bring you the cure?
One is Dr. Mengele and the other is Dr. Kevorkian...I'll let you decide which is which. The important point is that both of them are going to kill you.
Only a complete ideologue would suggest that those are the only two options. You do not have to be in favor of oligarch rule (free market) on the one hand, or Barry/Mittens on the other.
You advocate for representative government. Romney and Obama are the only choices you have in selecting the President of the United States. If they are not what you are looking for how do you propose to get to the place where your view of the virtue of representative government meets the reality of the day?
LetThemEatRand
For the most part I am against government interference but I have to give you a +1 since day in day out we all complain about the fraud in our markets/government then again when that fails? Just pointing this out (still giving you a +1) what is the recourse other then voting them out.
Report: Cronyism, political donations likely behind Obama, Holder failure to charge any bankers after 2008 financial meltdown
Voting them out is precisely the recourse. We need a government by the people for the people, not by the corporations and for the corporations which is the current model. The problem is that most people are stuck in the left/right blue/red paradigm, so we go from Nixon/Ford to Carter to Reagan to Bush to Clinton to Bush to Obama [most likely next to Mittens, then God forbid another Clinton etc] while literally nothing changes.
So you will vote out Obama and rely on Romney? That is the practical application of your suggestion.
I believe you are attempting to "Raub" this commenter, for the second time.
I don't understand the reference, Google didn't help.
Wrong again. Using mustard gas to "cure" patients is well insane. Similarly the medical industry used to give lobotomies up until the 1960's for things as innocuous as depression. Small or no government might seem scary but its nothing to fear. As its the best solution to a captured and corrupt government. You know like stop doing what isn't working and trying the opposite tract.
More bullshit.
Trickle down economics does not work!!! The only thing that trickles down is piss from the 1% onto the rest of us.
Tax the rich like back in the golden aera .. the 50's and slash the military (50% to start) if you want to really cut government because that is where most of the increase has come from!!!
Bravo!! Encore Encore.
Bingo, and yet even though you speak the simple truth, the mindfucked Koch peasants will downrate you.
FYI_ anyone who downrates the above comment, look in the mirror, you aint rich, so why you being the Riches bitches?
I'm not crawldaddy so I think they should tax him.
I have no problem with taxes, I love my country. Whats your problem?
If you feel insufficiently taxed, do you send extra money to the government every year beyond what you are told that you owe?
where did I say I was insuffieciently taxed? I didnt, learn to read. I said, unlike the ultra rich, and some here evidently, I dont mind paying taxes to support my country.
But the country uses your money to kill innocent people around the world. How could you not mind that and retain any scrap of humanity?
yeah like that is your biggest concern, Most here are so afraid some black family may get food stamps, thats there biggest worry.
It is my concern but obviously not yours. I've protested against war since 1970 when I was six years old.
Violence is the sole organizing principle of government.You can't have one without the other. What makes you think that even a sound safety net would be worth its cost in human lives and freedom?
I can better spend my money, you on the other hand might well be be better sending it through the hands of your legislators, administrators, staff, contractors, lobbyists,
bank and government financiers, and union heads.
If you coffee fetch, coathold, bootlick, butt sniff, play ball you'll get cut in, ( as you well know ).
When the govt proves it can use the money it steals from the people wisely and efficiently, then we can worry about whether we should allow them to take more of it.
Why would the military-industrial-congressional complex come down hard on the military-industrial-congressional complex?
What - you concerned your Viagra won't be covered anymore?
I agree with your sentiment but lets look at human behavior. The ultra rich will never be taxed, they just buy loopholes with contributions.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370001/General-Electric-avoids-...
The reality is that you want what 90% tax on the rich but only the well off will pay, not the elites.
So to go further, if you made 200K with a small company and paid say 40% and the law you propose would make you pay 90% on 250K
Lets look at the math:
200K X40%= 80K in taxes you keep 120K
250K X90%= 225K in taxes you keep 25K
Now you tell me, is that an incentive to grow your buisness or employ fewer people by staying small?
Libs are idealists, conservatives are realists, thats the difference
Its not that we don't hate the corruption, we just have to be realistic about the effects of fiscal policy
I believe the very first law past by the first CON-gress was a subsidy for sail shipping interests.
i saw jon aziz on the keiser report and he seemed to be drunk, as he made absolutely no sense in anything he had to say
probably drunk when he wrote this article. Its worthless trash. I'm actually embarrassed for the guy.
L0L!!!
has he also adopted shadowstats'TM agenda?
or has he had it all along?
NOTHING TO FEAR ABOUT IT...OUR MOST ADMIRED CENTRAL BANK WILL CONTINUE BUYING WHATEVER IS AVAILABLE:- EQUITY, UTRYS, MBS. EMPTY HOUSES, DOES IT MATTER WHETHER BILLIONS OF DEBT ARE ISSUED EVERY MONTH TO COVER THESE PURCHASES, WHO CARES WHETHER THE DEBT CELLING IS FUTHER BROKEN, WHETHER UNEMPLOYMENT GOES UP, AND MORE UNDERWATER MORTGAGES DEBTORS ARE KICKED OUT OF THEIR PREMISES?? WE BOUGHT NEW PRINTERS WITH BILLIONS OF CARTRIGES....
Many US government employees are doing very well, Local school administrators are making $275,000 and above. Police, firemen and public works employees sometimes make well over $150,000 with overtime. Add in the Cadillac health care coverage and the only wages going down are for those people that work in the private sector.
Teachers recently asked for a 30% raise. Life is very good and profitable in the public sector. Public employees also can retire with 75% of their normal pay with cost of living increases over time.
stop the lies asshole.
Where's your documentation?
hey genius, I'm not the one making ridiculous assertions. See... how this works in the grown up world is that you ask the person making ridiculous assertions to document. Do you get that Jethro?
I've already seen documentation of the points yogibear made. The report was written by government workers so I expect you'll agree with the findings.
Are Federal Workers Overpaid? A CBO report suggests that government workers make more than their private sector counterpartsBucking conventional wisdom, a recent report by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office suggests that federal government employees earn more than their private sector counterparts of equal or similar education levels. According to the CBO, federal workers earn on average $52.50 per hour, while employees in the private sector earn $45.40. The exception is workers with PhDs, who earn more in the private sector than in government. Those at the other end of the educational spectrum—workers with only high school degrees—earn 36 percent more working for the federal government than they would in a non-government job. It should be noted that most of the difference between public and private employees is due to the benefits government workers receive, such as healthcare and pensions.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2012/01/31/are-federal-workers-ov...
Oops now that you've posted a source crawldaddy suddenly has to mow the lawn or take the garbage out or drop his little sister off at piano lessons.
Ah well.
University of North Florida pres makes $600,000+ with grant moneys and wages-- gov't worker--
Not precisly true. In virgina we get 1.75% salary for every year worked in our pension.(and we contribute %5 of salary) So for 25 years of house fires, no sleep and hepatitis and aids exposure I will recieve $55K (base) X 43.75%=$24k a year.
Add it the fact that we have not recieved a step increase or COLA for 5 plus years. Each year the "cadillac" healthcare plan goes up in price (its anthem blue cross. same at the local welfare recipinets are covered with) while wages remain stagnant.
Public sector employment at the local level means guaranteed poverty for life.
I cant speak for federal employees
Whats with the down arrows? Anyone care to factually refute what I posted?
so -you dont get time and a half or double time ever--and you pay for that 3 hots and a flop in the fire house and its two on and one off? is that right -- uniforms?
Danger?? thats really not all that true either is it--more hollywood that fact--the truth is you get what your worth plus what the union organization can bully out of the property owners.
For years this country went well with volunteer fire fighters ( those guys weren't even heros) but when the realestate game was used by the "fire fighting industry" (read lobby)to have insurance rates go up unless you have a "mandated" number of manned fire houses in the district--- well then all of a sudden we got heros comming out our a--.
I'm about sick of heros--- get a real job.
Oh and screw your public sector unions too.
Anthem Blue Cross and Anthem Medicaid are too different plans with very different reimbursement rates... but on the whole, you are correct; Medicaid recipients have very good health care. If you think 55K is guaranteed poverty for life... think about the poor private sector BA schleps who make 35K with no pension. Cries of poor from public-school teachers will fall on deaf ears here, as they should.
maybe you did not see the part where I pay 5% a year and yield 1.75% on my pension? no one carrying me on that score.
Firemen don't even make the top ten occupational death/injury. Try commercial fishing, logging, construction none of whom are paid what you are, have few if any bens nor retirement and are paid by production, not time served. If you're underpaid, quit.( you won't, you know the score. ) I've crunched the numbers in my town and it would be way , way cheaper to pay off any fire damage then have the department. The rescue should be privatized and run out of the hospital.
maybe I won't die in a fire or get hit by a texting driver working a vehicle accident. maybe I won't get cancer from exposure to smoke and hazmat calls.
I served my county in the army and serve my fellow man now. when your child drowns in the pool(god forbid) I will be worth my weight in gold.
Then why not offer your services on the free market?
John Stossel - "What should you be paid?"
Teacher - "Well, uh, a fair wage"
Stoss - "What do you make now?"
Teacher - "55k"
But they teach because it's about the children, not the money. Which is why they are protesting for...more money.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bpb9DymmoU
And it wouldn't be so bad if it didn't go exclusively to a few.
What would a company ever do without that ONE CEO? (continue on perhaps?)
When you cut expenses through outsourcing and layoffs, and see it directly affect your compensation through shareprice, short term thinking is strongly weighted to one side. So in fact, C-Suite CAN cut its way to prosperity.
Amazing how long it can go on isn't it? In fact mirroring our managed collapse - Central bankster skillz never cease to amaze (although, there's a fanatical global elite that will do anything for status quo - an army of POWER and MONEY vs. an unstructured army of 'NUMBERS' needing manipulation through government intervention).
I never realized a multitide of soft oddly shaped water balloons could be juggled over jagged rocks - so far so good.. (sarc)
The problem is:
People who work for unions and government think they have the same market worth in the private sector while those living on government assistance think they all have jobs. All these people know the truth and just pretend they are equal or better.
That is the bitch about equality; it can't just be declared (or given to some), it must be earned- without the government picking who is equal.
wake up to reality. in REALITY government worker on average are more educated then their private working counterpart. THIS IS PROVEN OVER AND OVER. yet Govt workers are paid LESS, again PROVEN OVER AND OVER.
STop being mindfucked by the like of the KOCH brothers
Where's your documentation? If "THIS IS PROVEN OVER AND OVER," then you should be able to provide the documentation.
right here douchebag
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/blog_public_private_pay.jpg
you too stupid to use google?
LOL
You seriously think that the average person in the private sector with less than high school makes 39K, high school 50-51K, and bachelors 91K???
You are certifiably insane. That is so far removed from reality as to be comical.
Which average?
Median or mean?
He gets his "data" from your typical leftard government sponsored university. LOL
It's also including the "400"
And other 'private sector' employees like workers at GM, nurses and doctors (who get at least half their pay from gov), and just a whole shit ton of 'private sector' types whose incomes, ultimately, get traced back to gov (but only if you know the right people).
What was the source of that table? The fine government workers over at CBO have reached a different conclusion:
http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/images/pubs-images/42xxx...
Ezra Klein and Excel. You got me sold. Tell me how wonderful obama is now.
Is Klein one of those "red diaper babies ?"
Could you imagine what welfare programs would be if they weren't run by people with PhD's in Governenment? You think normal people would hand out checks for life to drunks and gullet stuffing inert obese hypertension fatties? You need credentials to swallow doing that for a living.
The fact that you take a lunatic like Ezra Klein at face value says...well...absolutely nothing for your critical thinking skills but lets look at this.
Anyone who works in the real world knows those numbers are laughable (what job pays high 30's without high school?) but lets see what the actual figures on average USs income say, eh?
2009 income levels from the census
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/income_expenditures_poverty_wealth.html
Table 703 divides average income by gender and educational level. Here we see
Less than High school
Less than 9th grade: Male 26,604 Female 19,588 national average
9th-12th grade: Male 33,194 Female 23,478 national average
You claim an average private sector wage of 38,918 and 36,407 public for the aggregate of these two groups.
High school grads
43,140 Male, 32,227 female national average
You claim an average private sector wage of 50,596 and public wage of 53,880 for this group
Bachelors degree
79,003 male 53,524 female
You claim an average private sector wage of 91,256 and public wage of 62,290.
So you see just how far removed from reality you are here, and how gulliable in swallowing whole the propaganda of a shameless propagandist like Klein?
Sorry, I will have to back him up on this one, with one caveat (that I dont know enogh to compare):
The higher pay from private work wouldnt come with all the bennies of gubt work (as in healthcare for life).
My girl (gubt accountant for 23 years with no degree) and father (retired, attorney who worked for the House for 33 years) would have made a LOT more in the private sector. My fathers situation is obvious, and the girl is constantly offered jobs from contractors for more money, but since shes so deep in the system she cant give it up at this point.
Another caveat- my little sister works for DOL and was hired away from her contracting job at a much higher salary, but the contractor she worked for was a joke.
Yes, I live outside of DC. I am actually a Libertarian and my girl jokes that if I had my way, she would be out of a job and we wouldnt enjoy the lifestyle we do.
I don't understand your comment that "she is so deep in the system she can't give it up".
Gun to her head?
No --its if she didn't have the job he wouldn't haave the life style
Private sector isn't a credentialed hackfest like government. Bill Gates, drop out. Steve Jobs, drop out. Something like 1/3 of self made millionaires are high school, or less ( Source,The Millionaire Next Door ). Our state pays more fore "advanced degrees", hence every cop, teacher is going to low rent, on line diploma
mill and geting their Masters in "Community Relations" Real bunch of MIT scholars. They they go back to the same job and hit up the taxpayers. But you are right, they be mo edkamaktited.
Lol.
Yeah, you can prove that easily enough by going to the DMV. Fucking geniuses.
poor crawl...Soro's buttboy.