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Guest Post: Need for Economic Crimes’ Nuremberg-Type Trials

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Ten Tanosborn

Need for Economic Crimes’ Nuremberg-Type Trials
 
I prefer the Spanish word “perogrullada” to its English equivalent: truism or platitude.  During my youth we had something closer in meaning to perogrullada when we would confront someone expressing the obvious, saying “no kidding, Dick Tracy!” [Dick Tracy was then a very popular comic strip detective and crime solver.]

Well, the great minds here in America are now telling us that a double-dip recession is beginning to look more as a probability than a possibility.  And I say… no kidding, Dick Tracy!  We actually never came out of the recession, never mind some intermittent data that only served to confuse and mask the true state of most world economies, particularly those in much of the Western World.  How can any student of economics knowing, or even guessing, that there were trillions of dollars of overvalued assets and phony paper still in the books of many major world banks, disregard it as a non-event?  Depending on how many trillion are inflating the books, recession will stay with us, particularly in much of Europe and the United States, for as long as a decade.

Although some of the latter day economic crimes are global in nature and deserve to be tried by an international tribunal, many nations are not quite yet prepared to grant authority on complex economic matters to an international body, such as the International Court at The Hague.  The United States, a nation where much of the techno-financial crimes originated, would never consent to such scrutiny, and the likely indictment of many of its most prominent leaders in banking, finance and politics. No one would expect such masochism to take place for crime which took place, and was allowed at the apex of American economic and political power.

But we don’t need any foreign legal authority to tell us about the criminality which was, and continues to be, harbored in both Wall Street and Washington; we are well aware of it although seemingly impotent to do anything about it.  All Americans need is some honest leadership which will listen to their clamor for economic justice; leaders that would bring about the formation of a US economic tribunal (USET) under existing laws and, if necessary, ex post facto extraordinary laws that would have to be enacted to restore trust and bestow a sense of socio-economic fairness and morality in our nation and the people we elect to represent us.  That tribunal would have to be totally independent and without influence from the White House, Congress or the Justice Department; a legal body that would be granted temporary investigatory, prosecutorial and punitive authority under a predetermined code, or set of principles.

Those of us who are history buffs, specifically World War II, including events that preceded and postdated that war (1937-1947), tend to look at the Nuremberg Trials (1945-6) with different degrees of criticism.  One does not need to be a legal scholar to realize that much of the Nuremberg proceedings simulated more a lynching party, or a guillotine exhibition, than a trial conducted according to universal precepts of common law.  The defendants, prisoners of war, were not allowed to challenge the fairness of the judges, nor were they given the right to appeal.  Many of the crimes for which they were charged, and convicted of, had been and were being committed by the accusers, or their governments; at times such crimes falling under retrospective law.  And, to top it all, the trials were conducted under their own, and unchallengeable, rules of evidence.

Yet, even if History ultimately renders the Nuremberg Trials as illusory justice, or even a mockery of justice, the argument will remain strong that an important purpose was served by these trials: placating the demands for justice of a bleeding continent which had shed 40 million lives and experienced ruinous destruction; even if in reality it was a victors’ justice, it was by most accounts a remarkable improvement over past historical situations where post-war resolution usually amounted to no more than vengeance over an entire nation or people.

Fortunately, we should be able to do much better today, and our government could offer more than just a semblance of justice in bringing about the unraveling of economic crimes through such an economic tribunal.  The flaws in the Nuremberg Trials could be overcome for the most part, and an equally important purpose would be served: the soothing and return to trust of a nation which has been economically and incestuously raped by the very leaders and holders of the people’s trust; the raping conducted under the auspices of the free marketplace and globalization.
Obama, impotently and clueless, talks about creating jobs… How about using a trillion dollars in requisitioned ill-gotten profits and punitive fines from the gangsters or banksters in Wall Street?  A perfect way of funding, without adding to the national debt, the creation of several million jobs to renovate an infrastructure which is beginning to look as that of a developing country!  Most of these Wall Street firms would be forced out of business, but their services really add no real value to commerce or society… the industry having proved itself as nothing but a parasite, one able to contaminate the nation’s institutions, as well as the greed and vanity of our elected politicians.

 

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Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:26 | 1583341 Belrev
Belrev's picture

I seriously doubt that the Rohtschild brothers will allow that to happen on any serious level. Over their dead bodies, but they will kill millions if they have to in order to prevent that. Keep dreaming all yee sheeple. The world is run by greed, fear, violence and injustice, that is how it has always been and that is how it always will be for the simple fact that the sheeple are incapable of organizing and acting as one powerful force.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:27 | 1583346 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

the thing that puzzles me most about zero hedge and the alternative media community?

the number of hand-wringers who just want to say we're all screwed.

so we have a big wonderful community of freethinking people who see through all the seventeen shades of bullshit and THAT means we're all screwed?

fuck that, bro. how about some optimism?

http://azizonomics.com/2011/08/17/job-creation-101/ 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:01 | 1583396 snowball777
snowball777's picture

And upset a worldview that conveniently excuses a lifetime of failure?

The idea of a sudden change of heart in US leadership is more plausible.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:25 | 1583415 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

We are all screwed.

There's just no simpler way to put it.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:27 | 1583438 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

You want optimism?

Imagine every light pole in Washington, D.C., adorned with a politician.  Just imagine.

It's not hard if you try.

I am Chumbawamba.

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:42 | 1583473 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I'd rather see them cleaning toilets or digging coal.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:51 | 1583623 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Either image will bring a smile to your face and a skip to your step.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:22 | 1584015 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

What a day, what a day for an auto-da-fe!

 

 

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 10:37 | 1585835 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

For there to be an uprising, people would have to get their lazy fat asses off the couch and turn off the TV.  I am thinking it ain't gonna happen.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:11 | 1583532 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

nice to see ya back...

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 16:44 | 1583941 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Curiously, a call for a lynch mob gets 12 thumbs ups and no thumbs down at the time of this posting. (Admittedly, I added to it, but it also illustrates the anger that 11 other wingnuts contributed to the tally.)

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:09 | 1583987 CosmicBuddha
CosmicBuddha's picture

13 thumbs up now!

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:10 | 1583989 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Imagine every light pole in Washington, D.C., adorned with a politician.  Just imagine.

It's not hard if you try.

You might say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one,

and the bankers, before we hang 'em, let's tar and feather just for fun.

 

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 20:53 | 1584545 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

leave them hanging and let them rot.  its a sign. 

 

look at gold and silver in the asian market. to the moon alice.....

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:28 | 1583440 mrkolice
mrkolice's picture

"No, I'm not a pessimist. At some point the world shits on everybody. Pretending it ain't shit makes you an idiot, not an optimist." shitmydadsays

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:43 | 1583480 Dan Watie
Dan Watie's picture

Arnold can get into Rothschild Castle. C'mon Arnold, prove you are more than a Hollywood American Hero! Don't let these girlie men get away with this!

 

http://www.nogw.com/images/rothschild_arn_buf.jpg

 

Arnold, say it ain't so!

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:43 | 1583479 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Its rather comical to assume that "The Rothschild" have anything to do with this.

Its not them but Nixon who ended austerity and american virtues and if you take history serious, it won't be the bankers who you'd have to go after, but Clinton and then Greenspan and then Bush.

The bankers can be charged for lending a hand, but they did not invent the policy!

Nuremberg was an epic failure, last not least because Germany was still at war (until 1948) and between 1945 and 1948 almost 2 million German Mothers and Children and Elder men lost their lives. One cannot expect a nation under such enormeous threats to take a farcical trial any serious while searching for bread and trying to run from Eastern European death squads of which arriving refugees told their fresh horror stories on a daily basis. Epic crimes committed on all sides!

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:51 | 1583492 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Seriously?

Its rather comical to assume that "The Rothschild" have anything to do with this.

Its not them but Nixon who ended austerity and american virtues and if you take history serious, it won't be the bankers who you'd have to go after, but Clinton and then Greenspan and then Bush.

Dude, you are either seriously misinformed or willfully blind to what is going on. Nixon, Clinton, Greenspan, et al., were puppets dancing on the strings of the decision makers in the banking cabal.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 16:47 | 1583947 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Yes indeed, but it is not altogether clear to me what the top of that cabal looks like. Is it a centralized power structure or millions of dickweeds collectively taking us down like a swarm of locusts. Niall Ferguson, in his book "The House of Rothschild" describes an empire that died of natural causes (dissipated). Don't dismiss him too quickly; I think he is one of us.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:48 | 1584075 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

>describes an empire that died of natural causes (dissipated).

Sorry, but that's not true. It is a centralized power structure based in London who happen to have "millions of dickweeds" working for them. The Rothschilds specialized in providing banking services to governments before there were central banks and then became those "central banks". They have always gone to extreme measures to avoid ANY and ALL publicity of their dealings hence the shroud (until recently) over our own Federal Recerve. Of course the real blame here goes to those self-serving egomaniacs who call themselves politicians who sold their decisions to get re-elected or were in debt to the banking cartel from the start. The banking cartel was just being the ruthless greedy bastards they are but they never forced any government or politician to take their money. We need a president who will stand before this country a say "Fuck you! We are taking our country back and ending the Federal Reserve".

Tue, 08/23/2011 - 13:24 | 1590911 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Nonsense, they all act on orders from these strange

looking fellas that live in Area51... Who is misinformed? lol

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 16:28 | 1583911 Tim White
Tim White's picture

Well put...

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 18:18 | 1584128 illyia
illyia's picture

Belrev. I agree. Up to this certain point:

"that is how it always will be:

Not so much with that last point. Example: Game theory discussion regarding sports figures using steroids (etc) to trump non-users ends up speaking to "corrupt players" v "upright players" (Scientific American and other GT sites). "Corrupts" only function by stealing credit within a functioning (on-balance sheet) game from "uprights". Everyone must still believe that baseball (or other sport) is useful or beneficial and is not corrupted entirely - or they will not play.

As long as there are uprights to steal from corrupts have something to gain. But at a global level, if the entire game is actually rigged, the uprights cease to function as patsies giving the corrupts no way to gain from stealing from them.

When we approach that level - and it must be an exhaustion level - then the corrupts will have to work to eat, too. We've never seen this GT play out on this kind of scale, but I think we might this time.

Peaceful Sunday

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:24 | 1583342 Misean
Misean's picture

We used "No shit, Sherlock".

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:31 | 1583354 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

We used both the Sherlock and Dick Tracy versions. The Dick Tracy version seemed to have more panache for me.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:51 | 1583486 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

In India, it was Sherlock land. Never heard of Dick Tracy growing up. It was always, and everytime... No shit Shearlock (which always made me wonder about the origin of english last names, as in, was Sherlock a maere bastardization of Shearlock, which of course would suggst barber-ous genes....).

An interesting exclamation here was "Jesus Holy Christ on a Crutch", and "Jesus Holy Shit on Toast" which was funny since we were all hindus and yet declared many times a day that Jesus's shit was holy. Also showed how programmed we were eh? No one said Holy Rama's Shit on Toast. Never. Or, No Shiv Sherlock either. Now, in true programmed style, we've reduced religion and spirituality into caricature, so someone will probably pee on a painting of Krishna in a gallery, soon.

Anyways, what a waste of space this article. of course we need it. And of course, if anything did happen, as the author himself shows, they would be Nuremberg-esque show trials. Not going to happen. 

A new system will find it's own definition out of the ashes. The new normal has not shown it's full hand yet.

Vivek (ORI)

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com

 

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:44 | 1583477 snowball777
snowball777's picture

"Keep digging, Watson"

"Fuck you, Sherlock"

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:29 | 1583345 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

Would be good to see Greenspan, Bernanke, Paulson & Geithner in the dock, although I expect they'd say they were only following orders.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:36 | 1583363 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Sadly, we have to remember that we are surrounded by armies of accomplices.  The welfare crowd doesn't care if their SNAP and WIC benefits come as a result of money printing and ruinous debt.  The 401k crowd doesn't mind some minor (major, really) transgressions as long as their balances rise and the price of their house goes up.  Hell, they could rape puppy dogs and the middle class probably wouldn't care if it allowed them to sell their house to a Greater Fool.  The upper class sure loves all of the criminality that pays their dividends and rents.  Bring on more Section 8'ers.  They are a reliable income stream. 

The politicians love it all for obvious reasons.  They have full campaign coffers.  They get huge perks, including inside information.  When they finally leave office they become lobbyists or consultants.  Didn't that little piece of feces Tom Daschle turn into a high-priced lobby whore for the medical industry? 

The guilt is everywhere we look.  Many ZHers point it out to friends and family, even though we know that straightening out the system, at least in the short term, will hurt our financial situation.  The rest just sing, "keep your hands off of my pie". 

An honest trial requires an honest judge and an honest jury.  Good luck finding that amongst the American masses. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:16 | 1583416 Bob
Bob's picture

Sadly, we have to remember that we are surrounded by armies of accomplices.

Going for irony here?  Surely the larger finance community--which skims far more wealth from the status quo--deserves a mention along with the SNAP and WIC crowd?

Of course, until Mr. Market has that dramatic coronary, they'll continue to clean up.  Fortunately, the nation has adopted Mr. Market as its top charity case . . . and it ain't just the banksters who carry his water. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:21 | 1583424 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Exactly, thanks for posting that.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:27 | 1583350 hognutz
hognutz's picture

As many people that they have hurt with their crimes?  Yes, it is Crimes against Humanity!   

 

Hang 'em high........

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:29 | 1583351 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I would be more than willing to sneak Dimon, Greenspan, Paulson, Rubin, Bernanke, Fuld, Raines, Mozillo, Romer, Mudd, Summers, Geithner, Lewis, Thain, etc. all the cyanide they can drink.  They can do their Goering imitation and I would be perfectly content with that. 

Now his nurse, some local loser
She's in charge of teh cyanide hole
And she also keeps the cards that read
"Have mercy on your soul" 

If they had any honor they would have already done it themselves. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:31 | 1583353 platoslast
platoslast's picture

Campaign finance reform, term limits bitchez....

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:38 | 1583367 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

A smarter electorate would still be needed. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:38 | 1583460 nmewn
nmewn's picture

It only allows me to give you a one up vote, so I'll give you the + million under the table like its always done ;-)

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:48 | 1583488 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Exactly. Bottom line. Bottom of the pyramid line. Don't see it happening. 

Vivek (ORI)

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:07 | 1583519 AngryVoter
AngryVoter's picture

Ron Paul

Obama

 

All voters should have to pass a test created by ZeroHedge before voting.  Ensuring they are capable of making an informed decision.  That should solve the problem. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:02 | 1583606 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

I just read that Ron Paul's money bomb was cyber-attacked last night. What was that saying, first ignore, then attack, then...

Edit "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win" Gandhi

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 19:04 | 1583899 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Or a more mature one. The US is an adolescent nation, spoiled and petulant that gets to elect its parents. It is time for American society to grow up and appreciate that the role of government is not to rip off thy neighbors so one can have a free lunch.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:39 | 1583465 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

there needs to be a reset button to the factory settings, set the date, hit enter...there is so much to unwind, patriot act,dodd-franks etc...this sytem cannot possibly be saved, sometimes it is better to raze and build new instead of remodeling....

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:33 | 1583357 High Wire
High Wire's picture

A nice fantasy but I think a more likely scenario is that like Pol Pot they will die of old age under the protection of the US military while the rest of us fight over the scraps.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:40 | 1583362 falak pema
falak pema's picture

From a layman's point of view, to further highlight the issues raised above :

I am no international jurist. But :

Eleanor Roosevelt was the promoter of the International Human Rights Bill that was signed in full assembly by members of the UN in Dec. 1948 in Paris. This defined the framework for international human rights. I don't know if economic crimes are part of the causes for claiming human rights violations. This is thus my first question.

The US administration in the context of German occupation jointly organised with the victor nations the International War crimes trials at Nuremburg. However, the US administration has NEVER signed  its subservience to the mandate of the International Tribunal of War Crimes that the UN has sanctioned under its own aegis, inspite of non signature by a Security Council member (USA for one, there may be others), this tribunal has functioned for war crimes in Balkans and in Africa. It would be the ideal place to organise similar trials if economic crimes were considered similar to war crimes. But it will never be allowed to do so if  MAIN security council permanent members never adhere to the principle of abiding by its rules when applied to their OWN citizens. There is a catch 22 situation there : DOUBLE STANDARDS. 

The USA and all others have to come on board before any discussion on this issue can even occur. This is a global problem and cannot be treated just on  country per country basis. If economic crimes are sanctionnable there will be a world wide cry for trying the Oligarchs who have pillaged the national economies on five continents. A similar common yard stick has to be established for judging them all. TALL ORDER.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:53 | 1583496 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

The United Nations is a Luciferian organization with New World, New Age, Alice Bailey and theosophist roots.

It is a huge part of the problem Falak. As it was intended to be.

Vivek (ORI)

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:37 | 1583364 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

they will manufacture war and distract with disasters if there was so much as a distant viable rumblings of trials. in fact, wars and violent distractions will occur shortly anyhow.

 

no shit, dick tracy!

enjoy.

 

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:51 | 1583385 platoslast
platoslast's picture

A few things may happen before these trial...

Social unrest like this country has never dreamed of...based on anything one can imagine...Class, race, religion, sex, education...removal of the president...hyper inflation will fuel the fires and the last thing the American people will focus on is the politics and economy...they will be trying to feed and protect there families. It's been the same for hundreds of years. The survivors/victors will be so tired of the unrest, the status quo will be perpetuated and even more oppressive, militarily and economically. once again the new standards will be accepted and the cycle will begin again.

Campaign finance reform...term limits bitchez...

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:39 | 1583370 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

nuremberg was a travesty and miscarriage of justice where the miracle of the 6 million started.....  we don't need that scam anymore. please. just put the bernank and the rest of them in the octagon.......its national fight club time...

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:58 | 1583751 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Miscarriage of what? The germans never denied what happened nor would they. The point of Nuremburg wasn't to pine over rules of evidence such that what happened would be known for all time. The world already knew that. It was a simple "do you take responsibility for what was done." and of course the refrain "just following orders sir!" was the reply. Needless to say they created the orders bit we'll leave that asode for the context of todays "tri lemma." the fact is we r fighting various wars of choice. The fact is none of the nations we attack in any way represent a threat to the USA. The fact of the matter is these multiple wars of choice have bankrupted the USA. (a final fact is i support them all as well but we'll save that one for another day.) so have gitmo type crimes been committed here at home? I think a logical question as to who all wants us to actually win these wars of choice actually are right now.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:33 | 1584038 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

any admission at this monkey trial by germans was under duress, you can believe that. this trial was bogus and a big scam and everyone knew it. the real war criminals were eisenhower and churchill and many people in their prospective administration.  both of these two scumbags  were traitors to their own people and their own countries and to humanity...........

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:40 | 1583374 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

People who didn't want regulation are now getting Regulation with a capital letter R. The lobby whore money they've spent in DC now looks like wasted money. The Republican tax cuts have been in place for a decade. It's wealth that has gone into private pockets and there's nothing the Republican leadership can do about other than conclude they've shot themselves in the cowboy boot.

Congress appoval is at 15%. by extension, that't the approval rating for Michele Bachmann, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, and Ron Paul. Ron was going to grill Ben Bernanke. What happened to that? Legislation starts in the House of Representatives. What have Bachmann and Paul introduced? Nothing. If they can't muster and influence in the House, they'll never do it as President adn the former American middle class knows it in a way that Rupert Murdoch, Roger Ailes, and Rush cannot do anything about.

ALL Congressional Republicans need to be out looking for jobs in the US and filming the process with Faux cameras and the ACORN pimp and prostitute. Show us the application, the submission, the wait for the interview. The Bush tax cuts have been in place for a decade. If Congressional Republicans can't do that, then they need to be called liars, to their face, voted out of office and kept out of office. If you're unemployed, you need to conduct your job search from a Republican's office. Republicans need to be intimately familiar with your steps.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:44 | 1583376 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

To the victors, the spoils.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:46 | 1583378 24KGOLD FOIL HAT
24KGOLD FOIL HAT's picture

I lose 100% of the shots I dont take...so its worth a shot.

Go for it.  The American way is optimism and risk taking.  Down with this old world pessimsm. 

We cant start at the federal level.  Lets conceentrate all our available power on one little old county.  Once we succeed; just move the bandwagon to another county.  The world WILL take note.  Look what Sheriff Joe can do in Phoenix!  DC is too much of a murky illusion to start there.  Be a little snowball and grow into an avalanche.

Bet the assholes will throw out a couple trillion to try to stop it but lets not be bought off, OK Brothers and Sisters?

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:55 | 1583505 homme
homme's picture

Good post. It has to start at the local level.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:50 | 1583382 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

We no longer have people who can lead us with conviction and it is highly unlikely that those that lead us today will ever face conviction. They know only too well that if a couple of heads start to roll, then it is hard to stop the process. Therefore it is in their interests to display and practice solidarity amongst themselves.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:35 | 1583457 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

But the primal instinct of self-preservation will corrode their alliance and they'll split into factions as the system crumbles.

Human nature, bitchez.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:54 | 1583502 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Yeah.  You should have seen Ali Velshi on the Chinese National News (CNN) defending the Feds "independence".  Linda Blair couldn't have kept up.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:50 | 1583383 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Why are stocks collapsing?

Here is from Bill Bonner at The Daily Reckoning. His explanation seems spot on:

"Stocks are obvious. America’s businesses aren’t worth 20 times earnings. They’re not worth that much because we’re in a Great Correction. And after the action of last week... and yesterday... it is becoming clear that this correction will last a long time. Layoffs are increasing. Home sales are falling. And consumer prices are rising at a 6% annual rate. The New York Times:

The Philadelphia Federal Reserve Bank’s business activity index fell to minus 30.7 in August, the lowest level since March 2009 when the economy was in recession, from 3.2 in July. That was much worse than economists’ expectations for a reading of plus 3.7. Any reading below zero indicates a contraction in the region’s manufacturing.

 

Aren't you glad you own gold?"

 

From The Daily Reckoning...a good daily read right after I read ZH.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:27 | 1583570 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

It's interesting how many economists and pundits will say that the market is reacting to news, when it fits their expectations for what the market should do (continue to rise): Markets rise on (insert headline). Blah blah blah...

But when the market doesn't respond as they expect it to, they blame it on psychology: "Fear dominates market sell-off" are the types of headlines you see.

The truth is, I believe, that the markets are essentially psycological in nature, and if people are pre-disposed optimistically, the markets shrug off bad news (common headline over the last couple of years), but if they are pre-disposed pessimistically, the markets decline regardless of whatever good news or spin the media can create.

The population is in a collective mood of decreasing optimism, and the markets are reacting this way. That's why every new bailout that's announced has less impact on a shorter time frame. That's why another QE, if it happens, will have less impact than the first two, and possibly even a severe backlash, similar to raising the debt target, er, ceiling.

This is a long term trend, the correction to the 1982-2000 bull market, and we're not even halfway there. Of course there will be furious rallies, as hope fights for survival in cascading waves of fear, until hope has been extinguished and panic ensues. I don't know the time frame, but the outcome is inevitable.

The good news is, once it plays out all the way, hope will once again emerge to replace fear, as it always has over time.

My two cents.

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 23:57 | 1584988 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Excellent. Very good understanding.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:54 | 1583387 24KGOLD FOIL HAT
24KGOLD FOIL HAT's picture

Forgot about the State Central Bank of North Dakota.  Stuff like that.  Common ZH, lets ask for a volunter county, maybe in SoCal, and put our members to work exposing the local shit.  When taxes are lowered by 50%, even the masses will see a tiny glimmer of light!?!?

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 11:57 | 1583391 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

this post is ridiculous and takes away from the credibility of this website

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 15:47 | 1583846 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

wow 

 

so much rage.  you guys need help

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 22:07 | 1584740 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

lol!

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:09 | 1583392 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

duplicate

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:00 | 1583395 Fate
Fate's picture

All the current cast could hang, and there'd be new criminals in there before their predecessors' bodies were cold. 

There IS a trial going on:  the whole Western military-industrial complex is on trial.  It is nearly over.  The jury is deliberating.  There are only a few holdouts now.  The verdict will be:  GUILTY.  The penalty will be:  DEATH. 

This whole rotten system needs to be heaved off.  We need a return to our Constitutional roots.  Break up this American Empire and let the states choose their own paths. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:30 | 1584034 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

All the current cast could hang, and there'd be new criminals in there before their predecessors' bodies were cold.

A strong rope can be reused many times. Just sayin'...

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:05 | 1583397 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

We could hang all the geitners, paulsons, bernankes, obamas etc But that would simply be getting a few low and middle level operatives - when we go after the rothschilds, blackrock etc Then we'll be getting to the real criminals.

Its akin to bombing afganistan and iraq for 9-11 when if we really wanted to bomb places where the 9-11 plot was hatched and carried out we'd have bombed Saudi Arabia, florida, west germany ( and kennebunkport for good measure).

http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:05 | 1583399 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Nuremburg II is a great idea.  Ideas are what will right this sinking ship; whether a trial is realized or not.

It has been pointed out here at ZH a thousand times; TARP, ZIRP and QE1-Infinity is for the banksters and their political whores.  The results are self-evident.

Even Rick Perry mouthed the words "treason" and "the Fed" in the same sentence.  Please don't tell me that he originated the concept.

Cheers to our academics, traders, and trolls this morning.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:05 | 1583402 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

In the past four years, the real power that is, has shown it's hand. They have looted the country, sent the money to Europe, admitted to it in Congressional Testimony, and absolutely nothing has happened.

The mortgage issue is one giant criminal conspiracy, not one of the masterminds has even been charged with a crime.

The President send our troops to war without even an attempt or gesture to do so in a legal manner. Every officer that participated in executing the attacks on Libya violated his oath of commission. The President should have been removed from office by this time. Nothing has happened about it.

The President sent assassins into an allied country without permission, and claims to have executed a Saudi citizen without trial or reason - he did not resist according to the latest "story". Then the assassins themselves were executed to prevent the truth - whatever it may be - from leaking out. How does this differ from what a mafia don does, or for that matter, what a Latin King does in a drive by?  Nothing is done about it.

Yes, the laws are for us sheeple, to be used against us, not for us. There are two laws, one for us, and blank check for them.

To pretend otherwise is to be a fool. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:06 | 1583404 darkpool2
darkpool2's picture

Remember those immortal words of Barry Goldwater?.....we need some " extremism" to fix the problems.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:15 | 1583418 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

good old barry was a creation of the chicago outfit.  arizona has always been controlled by the mob. as is nevada and california. gold old barry owed his entire "career" if you want to call it that to the jewish mob..

http://americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_219.html

 

so much for the thing we call conservative thought.    the same thing can be said about national review and william f buckley. dear old bill was always controlled opposition.  george carlin said. the parties were created to make you think you have a choice. you don't have a choice. its all smoke and mirrors. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:27 | 1583437 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I am forced to agree with you by the facts.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:56 | 1583635 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

how about the "great conserative'  ronald reagan?  reagan was created out of whole cloth by the chicago outfit........

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2L-Z8sPetsY

back in the twenties, some jewish mobsters who were living in the russian jewish part of chi town, were having a party. there were some reporters there. one of the mobsters got up in front of everyone and started bragging and said something along the lines of ......just look at us now. once we were horse thieves in russia but now we are rich men.....when he saw the reporters writing it down, he stopped talking..........

such is life in this gulag....

the chicago outfit started hollywood and LA and they also started las vegas.....so many sheep do not know their own history.....

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:04 | 1583650 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

oops almost forgot.  conrad hilton, the great grandfather ( i believe) of paris hilton, was very much involved with the chicago outfit. that is why his business ventures got so big. he used mob  money to acquire his new hotels etc......he was a figurehead and they used his company to launder drug profits. etc ......probably still do to this day for all i know....obama's campaign finance chairman, penny pritzker, another scion from chi town, got her money from the family trust. her great grandfather( i believe ) was also heavily involved in the mob and this is where the pritzker family fortune came from  and it goes on and on............the mob is very much into the hotel industry. always have been and always will be probably. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:54 | 1583498 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

Before his time as a Community Organizer obummer worked for Business International Corp. A Purported CIA front company that spevializes in placing operatives in deep cover.

So was the 'real' barry the BIC schmuck or the Community Organizer? I'd say #1.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:11 | 1583409 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Creating ex post facto laws?   Are you nuts?   Why on earth would we want to do that when we have all the laws we need to put the conspirators of 2008 in jail now.    A new super legal tribunal?    Are you out of your mind?    Why do that when Congress can appoint a special prosecutor when the Dept of InJustice fails to, or has a conflict of interest, pursue federal crimes.

We have RICO and that is all that is needed to take down everyone involved in the March 11th 2008 meeting at the New York Federal Reserve Bank, which was one of a series of continuing meetings where Wall Street and the Federal Reserve meet to continue illegal and criminal operations.   This is what RICO is all about, and those who attended those meetings and/or aided and abetted them are co-conspirators and subject to the full force of federal RICO Acts.

Think about it.   Think about who was involved or attended the 3.11.08 meeting at the NY Federal Reserve Bank.    All we have to do is take over the Congress.    You don't think so?

Welcome to the New American Revolution.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:22 | 1583427 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

Plus there's the small matter of Article 1, Section 9.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:23 | 1583432 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

+ Maiden Lane

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:17 | 1583419 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Another false flag attack coming....coming....coming; the coward's way out.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:17 | 1583421 chunga
chunga's picture

Yeah but this time everyone but those on trial are gonna pop a cyanide tablet...and they won't even know it until it's too late.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:22 | 1583429 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

One of the principles established by the Nuremburg trials is that those in positions of command and authority either knew, or by virtue of their position ought to have known, of crimes against humanity being committed by subordinates.

So the "I didn't know" defense was extinguished for those with command responsibility. Precisely what should happen here, now, all the way up to and including the President.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:41 | 1583470 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

You mean Dick Fuld, Ken Lee and the rest of the multi-million dollar scumbag CEOs shouldn't be allowed to use the bullshit argument that they didn't know what was going on in their own companies?  These guys were in charge of the sausage makers.  There is no fucking way they didn't know what was going into the grinder. 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:08 | 1583526 Kayman
Kayman's picture

WestVillageIdiot

Well.... Rupert Murdoch didn't know ! sarc/puke

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:31 | 1583448 DOGGONE
DOGGONE's picture

Crime? -- Massive Deception by Omission

“Ongoing extremes” at
http://www.durangotelegraph.com/index.cfm/archives/2008/june-26-2008/soa...

Dear Editors,
Here are four ongoing extremes, “Real Dow & Real Homes & Personal Saving & Debt Burden” at http://homepage.mac.com/ttsmyf/RD_RJShomes_PSav.html

which are kept well-away from the people’s attention.

Q: Why are they not apparent?

A: The Establishment: These truths are bad for business.

Q: But how about the people?

A: The Establishment: F___ the people.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:49 | 1583468 toady
toady's picture

This article addresses one of my favorite lines of thinking on the economic front.

Usually there are many comments saying 'its all perfectly legal', although I haven't seen one in this comment section yet.

The names mentioned so far are limited to financial types. I beleive that is a flaw.

The main problem with prosecuting the people behind these financial problems is that it is 'ALL PERFECTLY LEGAL'!

The legal backing for all this these shenanigans has been bought through campaign donations and added to some middle pages of 10k+ legislation that was never read. So the congressmen, an the presidents who signed this shit, are all going down too.

The only way any trials happen are a) after a major crash, Nurmberg-style, or b) in a international court that the US disavows. Any attempts to extradite will be thwarted by US political pressure or military action.

When talk of prosecutions arise, just remember, 'its all perfectly legal' and move on...

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:57 | 1583507 surfeitndearth
surfeitndearth's picture

OK, so charge them all under Obsenity legislation on the books.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:45 | 1583478 zippy_uk
zippy_uk's picture

I am so glad this article has been posted. We have not got a problem with the system, but a problem with the people running the system. No good economy has ever been built on lies, and infact one could argue that capitalism works by exposing (economic) lies.

Take today - Tony Blair has been on TV in the UK saying that there is no moral collapse in the UK (YES, there definately IS - see middle class rioters with jobs for why) and that politicians and bankers should not be dragged into such a discussion.

What he forgot to mention is that HE lives in a £6M mansion in Bucks funded by his job working for J.P.Morgan. Lets not forget also that most of the MPs expneses scandal happened on his watch as PM. He was also happy for his Chancellor, Gordon (Broke) Brown to ignore regulation of the city and sell UK gold at the bottom of the market (many suspect a covert bailout).

So we need economic crimes punished. We probably already have the laws to do it (all countries involved) and it should be pursued to the end of time for the individuals concerned.

This is a positive side to this. We are discussing it and ZH is clearly a key forum for it. But as voters we must a) Vote b) Not give our vote away c) Ask the key questions to those how seek it - like how many will you prosecute for economic crime from the banking crisis? 

The system IS there. WE must use it, and tell others to do so also.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 19:07 | 1584272 smore
smore's picture

Unfortunately, the Moral Collapse has been accompanied by the Education Collapse and the Attention Span Collapse.  Only one thing is assured: More Collapses Ahead.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 19:59 | 1584385 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Don't forget the "getting up off the sofa stoned too fast" collapse.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:46 | 1583484 indio007
indio007's picture

The problem is we are all ignorant and lazy. As the good book says, Heaven helps those that help themselves.

 

We can prosecute these crimes ourselves. The greatest acheivement of the oligarchs and kleptocrats is that we can not have justice unless they permit it via some district attorney or attorney general. Nothing could be further from the truth. There was a time in this country that crimes where prosecuted by the people themselves.

 

Observe ,

Private Prosecution, A remedy for the district attorney's unwarranted inaction.

Yale Law Journal 1955

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B1wtyXDQr0s-ZjRkYzNlZjMtN2M2ZS00ZDViLTk3ZWQtMTUwNjg4Yzk5ODUw&hl=en_US

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:54 | 1583500 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

No can do.

Wouldn't be good for the economy in New York city.

Who would be left to buy the $100 hamburgers and $80 pizzas?

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:57 | 1583508 ghostcommander
ghostcommander's picture

Great article!
The Nuremberg, and the Japanese Imperialists trials did not go far enough. The entire SS officer corp, and other officers in the Nazi and Japanese hierarchy should have been eliminated.

We would not have the deepening recession today if all those  fraudsters involved in the "Housing Fraud Bubble" had been brought to Justice.

Some of the same people that were involved the the world's greates fraud are still out here doing damage to America's recovery. Many of the same people who were involved are now into mortgage foreclosure frauds, preying on homeowners facing foreclosure.

There seems to have beeen a legalization of corruption in America, and anything goes caspitalism is justified by those in the American business and political community. They still are thinking they have the right to continue with their crimes.

Until Justice gives these "hook and crook" capitalists an attitude adjustment, there will be no improvements in America.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:13 | 1583538 gunsmoke011
gunsmoke011's picture

Actually - I gave up long ago on any serious change. I use to worry about my children and grand children being stuck with the impossibly insurmountable debt - but then I came aorund to the reality that it is not / and never has been the intention to ever pay it back. The U.S. will simply continue the party until nobody is any onger willing to pay for it -- then we will default. The issue I have is - when are other people going to wake up to this fact - and stop the madness. I always listen to and read about people who are all to aware of the problem - but have simply given up and say screw it - there is nothing I can do about it. I wish just once - someone would stand up and say NO MORE! This corruption of Wall Street and Washington will NEVER be solved at the ballot box -- Repeat NEVER. Those who write the laws are not serious about solutions - they are , like everyone on Wall Street only interested in how they can profit from other peoples mysery. That said - I think the day is a lot closer than many can imagine that someone WILL stand up and say NO MORE - and when they do they are going to find they have a lot of followers. This will ultimately be resolved in the streets - when people who ahve worked their entire lives, played by the rules, paid their fair share get fed the fuck up with those who have not - all the while pissing and moaning that MORE needs to be done for them. Stated differently - when the "Haves" no longer have and the "Have Nots" continue to demand that everything from free housing, to free food, to free medical care, to cell phones and EVERYTHING ELSE is a "Human Right"! The day is approaching when those of us who have worked our asses off - will jsut as soon shoot lazy bastards as we would to see them receive on more penny of undeserved "Entitlements"! For me - that day is already here - I am just waiting for others to come to the same conclusion.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:05 | 1583655 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Count me in, gunsmoke

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 19:17 | 1584300 smore
smore's picture

I'd support Ron Paul for Dictator at this point.  I don't trust any of the boobs and crooks in Washington to do anything except get in his way.

In the Roman Republic Dictators were elected several times, and did the job, Cincinnatus being perhaps the best example.

http://blip.tv/file/get/MikeDuncan-0407ThePublicThingTrialsAndTribunlati...

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:16 | 1583539 besnook
besnook's picture

nice utopian rant. there will probably be shanghai trials after the usa decides now is the time to take out china before it gets too big to take out. south america will the hide out of choice for the smart criminals and after 300 years of english dominance the world will slowly learn how to speak mandarin over the next 50 years.

 

you are on the wrong train. this is the crazy train. don't expect rational decisions  made in support of self interest. this situation is all about irrational decisions leading to self destruction.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:19 | 1583548 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Trial? Only if this is the result..

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=070_1260377467&p=1

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:39 | 1583591 wombats
wombats's picture

Legal lynchings, mob rule, laws made up for convenience as we go along.  Orwell would be proud.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 13:46 | 1583601 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Bravo!

Round them up, give them a criminal fair trial, and if convicted brand them for a lifetime as liars, cowards, and thieves. Top CEO to bottom custodians that saw shoplifting and failed their duty to put a stop to it.

Shame for the shameless, bar them from the industry for life.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:05 | 1583651 MFL8240
MFL8240's picture

Great article, should be in the fiction section.  This TRIBE is real tight.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:17 | 1583675 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8

 

Just putting the idea out there that possibly this article is a bit naive.

 

 

[p.s. logout button is broken - this is nicht gut; I switched IPs & proxies and still came back to being logged on - which given my setup means cookies of the non-hidden n suspicious kind shouldn't be working... not so cool]

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:23 | 1583694 oogs66
oogs66's picture

how about sarbanes oxley for politicians

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:42 | 1583726 pitz
pitz's picture

The creators and users of the H1-B visa should be subjected to a Nuremberg-like trial, and punished for their misdeeds.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:49 | 1583735 killben
killben's picture

Good Idea!

When small time looters in the UK are tried and convicted why should big time criminals go scot free.

Should include parties to wilful devaluation of dollar, parties who funnel money to enitties under any guise whatsoever.

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:50 | 1583737 killben
killben's picture

good idea.

big time criminals .. should have a minimum time in prison .. 15 years

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 15:10 | 1583770 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

I assert there are two reasons the warring in Iraq and Afghanistan cannot be terminated any time soon. One reason is the financial interests of the military-industrial complex that relies on warring for its financial well-being. The other reason is that any termination of that warring would be perceived as a defeat of the US and its satellites and puppets. Defeat would then give rise to claims (correct, as it were) of war crimes by the US and its posse and the need for Nuremburg-type trials.

Nuremburg may have been an improvement over prior practices, but it was still, in essence, an exercise in victor's justice. And, as indicated, the fear of victor's justice is one reason the current warring cannot be brought to an end.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 17:16 | 1583992 Caggge
Caggge's picture

Why were we in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh yeah! Those evil Al Qaeda folks flew planes into the World Trade Centers. Who is in the World Trade Centers? It can't be international bankers. I wonder if Al qaeda had the right target in their scope. It seems to be the same target most on here focus on. When the American public has had enough of this crap, I wonder what they will do. Could America, the management folks not the people, actually be the evil empire they said we were?

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 18:39 | 1587994 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Al Cia Aeda hit their intended target in the twin towers.            Tuco

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 18:40 | 1584173 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Fuck the trials.

Lets go right to a Bill of Attainder for these mothers. Capital Punishment. No Defense.

Plus Congress will be able to get rid of all the crooks who contributed to them.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 20:24 | 1584477 gwar5
gwar5's picture

They are traitors and the biggest threat to all nations. +++

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 19:47 | 1584394 MFL8240
Sun, 08/21/2011 - 20:07 | 1584442 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

A rehash - Bloomberg is late to that party, having been beaten to it by... Rolling fucking Stone.

 

 

If you need a single reason why America is fucked, and going to tank first, it is that a music magazine is scooping the shit out of the rest of the media. Woodstock III bitches.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 20:22 | 1584474 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I don't know Ten Tanosborn, but I think he should be president.

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 21:17 | 1584501 randfan
randfan's picture

I think many, but not enough, Americans share these feelings.  Unfortunately, we also know that such a tribunal resides only in those dark fantasies we conjure up after reading a Matt Taibbi article. 

Let's face it, WE THE SHEEPS can't even get the legislators that we put in office to enact provisions as basic as the Volker rule. 

Nowhere in history, EXCEPT in this most recent financial crisis, have the spoils of war gone to the loser.  As WS brought this country to its knees, our elected officials, while bombasitcally excoriating WS, made sure that the entire financial system was kept whole, including brazenly using our tax dollars to remunerate the very criminals responsible for the crimes.  We (and sadly I include myself in this statement) sat there and watched a trillion+ dollar transfer of wealth from the middle class to the wealthiest 1%.  Then we were forced to listen to our Congressman and the President tell us it was necessary to keep Wall Street whole.  Although we may have doubted it, we did nothing to prevent it.

Not a single uprising, not a single act of civil disobedience, not a single act of retribution occured before or after the transfer of wealth to the richest 1%.  Why should WS fear anything when their money can buy legislation from ANY legislator -- left, right, center or other -- that we put in office?  Our votes are merely the smoke and mirrors to create the appearance of a representative democracy.

I'll go a more insane step beyond:  If I were writing a conspiracy novel, I'd say that Obamacare was the greatest sleight of hand in history perpetrated at WS's command by political leaders from the left AND the right.  Think about it for a second:  The healthcare debate, at the very height of the financial crisis, took this country's eyes off of seeking a root cause and subsequent solution for the financial crisis and, instead, put them squarely on a divisive piece of legislation that had no business being contemplated until the financial crisis had passed. Tea Partiers should have been storming WS, not gathering in DC to listen to the magician's assistants, Palin and Beck, pontificate about socialism.

When the definitive Decline and Fall of the American Empire is written 25/50/100 years from now, historians will surely wonder why ALL Americans were so passive about the crimes Wall Street committed. 

The financial crisis (financially) engineered by WS did not spawn a modern day equivalent to Robspierre.  Instead it solidified the middle class' role as lemmings and demonstrated just how passive we have become since our founding. 

Although there is much debate about the authenticity of this quote attributable to Jefferson, it nonetheless is true:

"...The dominion which the banking institutions have obtained over the minds of our citizens ... must be broken, or it will break us."

Suffice it to say that day has come.

 

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 23:36 | 1584946 RiskAverseAlertBlog
RiskAverseAlertBlog's picture

Before criminal justice -- this presuming innocence before guilt is proven beyond doubt (this being imperative, if crimes charged are not to pale to crimes more vile) -- certainly will come either one of two likelihoods: a). the presidency of the United States will be won by a patriot determined to act with the same spirit and determination of former leaders in times of crisis (Lincoln, FDR), or b). a vicious and all the more aggressive dog-eat-dog will eviscerate the upper class in a global replay of 1923 Wiemar Germany.

The Ivy League scum that has risen to the top, one way or another, will be skimmed off. Better it be from within. Justice will have its best hope of being served, then.

 

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 02:38 | 1585127 randfan
randfan's picture

As long as we choose to use silly labels like "Ivy League scum" as a flashpoint for our problems, we will never have a productive dialog. 

 

The people I went to high school with some 28 years ago that went on to Ivy League schools deserved to go.  The Ivy League grads I higher today are all very smart. 

 

The Ivy Leaguers that rise to the top merely master the rules that others have created.  As long as our system continues to hand out the biggest rewards to those that consistently devise ways to breach the spirit of laws while maintaining a plausible legal defense for those breaches that go beyond the letter of the law, Ivy Leaguers will do so.

The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves that we are underlings.

Redesign the reward/incentive system and the behavior will change; it's really that simple. 

The individual freedoms on which our Constitution was built have been destructively supplanted by an institution that did not even exist (and therefore was not even contemplated) at the founding -- big corporations.  Big corporations were a late 19th century/early 20th century construct.  But corporations have been great at convincing middle class Americans that giving corpoations money in the form of corporate income tax reductions is somehow better than giving it back directly to individuals. 

Thus individuals have even bought into the notion of putting their own interests beneath those of coroporations.  For example, we hear politicians arguing for corporate income tax reductions because, we are told, that will create jobs.  But why wouldn't lowering middle class income taxes by an amount equal to that which you want to lower corporate income taxes have the same effect?

I suggest that giving the money back to middle class Americans is substantially better than giving it back to corporations because big corporations may take that money and invest it abroad and sell the wares they produce in foreign countries to consumers in other foreign countries.  How exactly does that benefit America?  Middle class Americans, on the other hand, will use the extra disposable income and buy goods and service from local merchants.  Therefore, why wouldn't putting money in the hands of consumers have the same or an even more productive effect? The shop-worn argument that corporations will create jobs ignores the reality that they could very easily invest those dollars outside US borders.  

Americans need to take back America from the politicians and big corporations.  Until that happens corporate profits will continue to rise along with unemployment rates.  (That is not a typo.)  

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 16:25 | 1587447 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I wouldn't higher any more!

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 17:47 | 1587781 randfan
randfan's picture

Good advice.  Let's hire stupid people.  After all, stupid people will fix all the problems this country has. 

 

So your advice is that the people who did not develop the best work habits and who studied and learned less throughout their youth to get into middling schools should get the jobs?  Wow, brilliant, you're advocating a MORONocracy.  Maybe you could be president of MORONica.

Read my post carefully, it's the elite who figure out and fully exploit the rules quickly.  Therefore, the funniest thing about your MORONica is that the very same people running things today will figure out the rules in the new MORONocracy before the real morons like you do and you'll then be advocating a RETARDocracy. 

 

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 18:47 | 1588021 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

I have yet more advice.  "Lighten up Francis."

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 18:49 | 1588029 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

And please tell me you knew I was just making fun of your spelling...

Mon, 08/22/2011 - 16:23 | 1587434 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

This Sucks.

- Lloyd Blankfein

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!