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Guest Post: Obama's Re-Fi Plan: The Perfection Of Debt-Serfdom

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

Obama's Re-Fi Plan: The Perfection of Debt-Serfdom

How better to corral restive underwater debt-serfs than to herd them into accepting a new, "better" set of lifelong servitude shackles?

President Obama is taking credit for a new government plan to "save homeowners." That is of course pure propaganda to mask the plan's true goal: the perfection of debt-serfdom. The basic thrust of the plan is straightforward: encourage "underwater" homeowners whose mortgages exceed the value of their homes to re-finance at lower rates.

The stated incentive (i.e. the PR pitch) is to lower homeowners' monthly payments via lower interest rates.

This is the Federal Reserve's entire game plan in a nutshell: don't write off any debt, as that would reveal the banking sector's insolvency, but play extend-and-pretend with crushing debtloads by lowering the cost of servicing the debt.

The key purpose of this "plan" is to leave the principle owed to banks on their books at full value while ensnaring the hapless debt-serf (the "homeowner") into permanent servitude to the banks.

If the net worth of your home is a negative number, then what exactly do you own? You have the right to occupy the shelter, and you own the debt. So how is this any different from a lease? There is no equity, and no equity being built: there is a monthly payment in return for the right to occupy the dwelling.

The difference is the leaseholder can move at the end of the lease with no debt obligations. The underwater "homeowner" debt-serf is trapped by his/her mortgage into what amounts to lifetime servitude to the holders of the mortgage.

All the plan does is perfect this debt-serfdom. In a truly capitalist, transparent, free-market economy in which assets were always marked to market, then mortgages that are grossly misaligned with the market value of the house would be written down and the mortgage holders forced to book the loss.

Over-leveraged lenders, i.e. the "too big to fail" banks which dominate the U.S. mortgage market, would see their capital reduced to zero by the writedowns. They would be declared insolvent and liquidated. Their shareholders and bondholders would book losses.

But these losses are unacceptable in our crony-capitalist/cartel-capitalist Status Quo, so the "solution" to systemic insolvency is to manipulate the debt-serfs to keep paying, and thus keep the unicorn-and-pixies valuations of real estate on the banks' books at full value.

This is the same game that Japan's lenders and Central State have played for two decades, and it remains the heart of their failed policies and decaying economy. In Japan, lenders papered over their bad debts with all sorts of back-door machinations: they extended new loans to debtors so the debtors could continue to make interest payments, they created zombie accounts filled with delinquent loans that were still kept on the books at full value, they wrote new loans at near-zero rates so interest payments were lowered, and so on--the same ploys and games being played by the Federal Reserve, the Federal government's housing lenders (Fannie and Freddie) and the banks.

The propaganda machine is running at full throttle, of course, with the usual parade of toadies and lackeys trotted out to say what a great and wonderful thing this plan is for poor homeowners. But industry analyst Ken Rosen inadvertently revealed the real motivation for the plan: to keep underwater homeowners from "walking away" in so-called "strategic defaults." underwater homeowners thrown lifeline by Obama (Mercury News).

Why is strategic default anathema to the Status Quo? Because the abandoned house will eventually have to be sold on the market, and at that point its true value revealed. The mortgage holder will then be forced to book a stupendous loss, and the inflated-paper "asset" on the books vanishes.

The Big Lie here is implicit: "your house will someday come back in value, so hang in there, debt-serf." No, it won't. The bubble has popped, and the mania has left town. Housing will retrace to pre-bubble valuations circa 1996-98.

As usual, the Plan is all about managing perceptions and political theater: we're here to help the little guy, the struggling homeowner; we are in charge, we have a plan, we're competent, this will fix the housing market.

Too bad they're all lies. Perception management is not the same as actually solving the underlying problem, yet perception management is the Status Quo's response to every problem.

The perfection of debt-serfdom is now complete. First, make student loans "necessary" for the "good life" and then make that debt permanent and unbreakable. In other words, institutionalize debt-serfdom and lifelong servitude to the financial sector.

The re-fi "plan" herds potentially rebellious mortgage debt-serfs into new corrals, with the incentive of slightly lower interest rates. The lifetime of servitude to financial Overlords remains firmly in place. That's the "plan."

The Plan has other flaws as well:

Got A Hundred Bucks? Buy A Home (Or Virtually Anything Else) Using 2,000x Non Recourse Leverage (Zero Hedge)

On the Administration’s Latest Potemkin Help Struggling Homeowners Plan (Naked Capitalism)

 


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Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:11 | Link to Comment RacerX
RacerX's picture

wow, this sounds like a GREAT plan!  (if you're a banker)

and don't forget about state & local govt's--that get much of their tax revenue from "home property values". They're key-stakeholders in this game too!

The King is dead! Long live the King!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:14 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

bbbut...Oblama was on LENO.

I guess he hadn't had some adulation lately and was desperate

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:19 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Leno? In a just world he'd have been on COPS.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Dexter

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

It's a full banker buffet alright.

1) Resets the mortgage so people wind up paying way more in the long run (described here: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/gses-expand-housing-subsidy-refinance-mode...)

 

2) Increases homeowner cash flow in the short run, therefore lowering chances of default.

 

3) Gives the banks a brand spankin new set of documents including Deed of Trust and Note, so all these pesky fraudclosure issues go away.

 

4) Giveaway to the transaction folks whether it be banks or brokers, more churn fees.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:48 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Folks, YOU WILL NEVER OWN A HOME outright.

 

Government is the ultimate owner. That's why you pay the property tax. 1% every year at least. Same as wealth/asset tax.

 

Any guarantees that property tax won't go up next 30 years? Hah.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

There are a few counties in the US where there are little or no property tax, but as I recall most of them are not places you'd actually want to live!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:04 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

some may even give you free land....homestead act.

 

caveat: raising a family 200 miles from any civilization may not be worth the free crappy land.

 

market is sort of free and working, so free stuff means market value is zero to negative.

 

over the 30 years of home "ownership" assuming inflation = property value growth:

 

MORTGAGE $300,000

INTEREST TO BANKSTERS $270,000 (@5%)

PROPERTY TAX $90,000 (@1%)


SECRET: The real wealthy owners of America don't get mortgages.

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:16 | Link to Comment pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

This isn't really about debt serfdom, it's about haircuts on MBS's that are still in Joe Six-Packs retirement portfolio.  Haircuts there make everyones savings go nuclear and the game is over.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:25 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

you mean the avg. balance of $50k in boomer's 401k "retirement portfolio"?

most Joe Six-Packs have maybe six dollars in his portfolio.

 

It is actually about not making foreigner governments mad. US government bond is pretty much all home mortgages repackaged anyway. US told China that we will go invade oil rich countries and give them oil discounts if they hold on to Fannie and Freddie.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:13 | Link to Comment Council of Econ...
Council of Economic Terrorists's picture

It's all in the name.  Root words of mort gage = death pledge. 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:46 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

I like it...

 

Morgue-gage: aka. "debt till you die suckers!" -world banksters.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:03 | Link to Comment franzpick
franzpick's picture

Tax strikes are probably punishable with 30 days in the electric chair, so maybe it's time for a 'homeowner' de-occupy movement of strategic default, or the increasingly popular buy (something at half price) and 'walk' for those still in position to do that.

It's just a matter of time before the homeowner populace sees through the continual Case-Shiller understatement of home price declines and overestimate of recent sale values (by excluding distressed sales and by monthly price averaging).

Mortgagors of the World Disburse will be my sign at the desert cities civic center camp-in this weekend.  

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Fox Moulder
Fox Moulder's picture

I haven't read the fine print, but it also probably turns a non-recourse morgage into a recourse one. I.e. if you sign you can't walk away from the debt.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:38 | Link to Comment legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

In Nevada, it may do the opposite.  Last year the legislature passed a bill making Nevada like California, where banks cannot seek deficiency judgments.  Under the old rule, they could.  So, lets say you have a 2005 mortgage and want to walk away from the house.  Well, it may be better to go ahead and refinance, then the new law would apply, presumably, and when you walk away the bank cannot seek deficiency.  So, in Nevada this might turn a recourse debt into a non-recourse debt.  That is, unless there is a special provision......

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:43 | Link to Comment Bollixed
Bollixed's picture

The problem lies in the Feds ability to tax the forgiven debt as income.

They have you coming and going. Somebody has to pay for Barney Franks pension.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Goner
Goner's picture

This is not an issue since the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007. I dont know if the new plan impacts this at all but I doubt it.

1.  Normally, debt forgiveness results in taxable income. However, under the Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007, you may be able to exclude up to $2 million of debt forgiven on your principal residence.

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205004,00.html

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:40 | Link to Comment legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Yes, along with that war criminal GW Bush, who should have been hanged along with Saddam.  Come to think of it, GW killed MANY more people than Saddam ever did.

Obummer just continued the same despotic policies.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:46 | Link to Comment DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

"GW killed MANY more people than Saddam ever did"

 

Forgetting the Iran-Iraq war, are we?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:59 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

We did give the Iraqis and Iranians the weapons to fight that war - and help us test them.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:40 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

some of them may have been defective weapons sold for full price.

 

Sort of like USAID genetically modified crops  that was rejected by EU health regulators got "donated" to African countries. But US did take full credit for par value...

"US donates $$$ every year to poor African countries!!! so when US comes after your oil, gold, and other wealth, US will be preferred over China"

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:13 | Link to Comment Blano
Blano's picture

And the Kurds after Gulf War 1.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:30 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

obama....still kissing up to wall st. with bailouts.

 

folks, remember, refinancing just eases cashflow requirements, but in the long run it is more money for the banks.

Also, holding up inflated housing prices = holding up taxable assets for your governmint --> more taxes.

 

In california, people are selling as prop 13 tax limit eventually catches up thus taxes become bigger liabilities in terms of total cost while home valuations are falling.

 

Home is not a good investment unless valuation growth exceed that of inflation.

Folks, even if you are not losing money on a home, when inflation is 4-5%, you are losing 4-5%.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Prop 13 only applies at the maximum assessed value the property ever had.  If your property taxes in California go down because of market conditions, they can re-hike them again by any amount up to the former peak before they are restrained by the Prop 13 1% increase limit.

The way things are going, the only reason to own a home will be as an income property (which is quite doable in the market today given so many people are going back to renting).

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Or when M1 is cruzing along at 30%, M2 at what 10-15%, what's that mean if your home is worth say 75% (lucky!) of what it was three years ago?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:17 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

That it is a depreciating asset just like any other consumption when you compare "growth" vs inflation.

 

Fed is inflating to discourage you from walk away from your mortage and punishing banksters for frivolous due diligence and risk management by making you think you are not losing money because home values are "stable" whereas inflation is showing up everywhere else except in your wage.

Same bs they are pulling with stocks and QE.

 

Your home value doubled? well in next few years everything else except your home will double in price.

 

Except banksters fooled you into spending more on a bigger house = more maintenance fees, more taxes, more insurance, etc.

 

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Will my iPad double in value?  (Sorry.  Couldn't resist)

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:39 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

How much gold and silver is in it?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:39 | Link to Comment Silverdes
Silverdes's picture

If it doesn't, you can always just eat it!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:51 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

iPad will depreciate faster than gadahffi's portfolio managed by Goldman Sachs unless you got one with gold plating.

 

 

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:29 | Link to Comment johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

as long as your home can be siezed for non-payment of taxes, you own nothing

 

if it can be taken, you dont own it

all one is ever doing is renting a home

 

you only truly own what you can carry on your back

your right to drive can be taken on a whim, putting you on foot or worse

rule by force, hidden in plain sight

refi yourself into bondage

woohoo

do you suppose alcoholism is up in the US these days?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:51 | Link to Comment SwimmininNawlins
SwimmininNawlins's picture

I know alcoholism is up in "my" house these days.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:08 | Link to Comment JB
JB's picture

I can't afford to be an alcoholic any more... :(

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

weed consumption is WAY up in my home.  come to think of it, it's always been way up there.  good times.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Strider52
Strider52's picture

Most people can't afford to pay attention, except to who got kicked off Dancing With Stupid People.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

 

 

That's just more libertarian nonsense.  You guys are FREAKS!

If you want to take this to such stupid extremes, YOU can be seized.  Everything can be seized.

You're just trying to romanticize the image of a man roaming the plains with nothing but his gold and his guns, trying to flee the supposed "slavery of serfdom" - i.e. the modern world.  Dukes of Hazard meets Gunsmoke with undertones of Tarzan

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:06 | Link to Comment Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Bad job Lib! Trying to discredit all the preceeding statements by associating hyperbole with reality as a whole doesn't do the trick. Try again would you? You're on to something, state it in a logically balanced way next time. 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:10 | Link to Comment FeetOnTheGround
FeetOnTheGround's picture

"Libertarian nonsense?"  Being as individually free as possible is nonsense?

BTW, you CAN be seized!! Ever try not paying child support (or any other court-ordered debt)?? Have you recently tried violating a restraining order?

Maybe you can name a few assets that CAN NOT be seized? Because most everything I can think of CAN easily be seized (of course, right after the legal paperwork has been duly filed, stamped and approved). Does 'drug asset forfeiture' count? How about failing to pay your property taxes - do you think the city/town/state is going to send you a bouquet of roses for not paying up?  Get enough traffic tickets and your driver's license will likely be seized right along with your car. Sell raw milk, and your milk, cash and property will be seized.  .gov can seize entire country's bank accounts!

I guess Libertarians could be considered 'FREAKS.' If by that you mean they are currently a minority, with viewpoints greatly differing from 'mainstream' persons when it comes to what it really means to be free.

Funny, but I don't see much romanticizing going on here - unless you mean banks (who stand to lose a great deal) snuggling up to whomever they think will best help them protect THEIR assets at every turn.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:21 | Link to Comment legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

That is why people of means should consult with an asset protection attorney.  The government cannot seize what you do not own.

I create asset protection trusts, both domestic and abroad, to hold family's nest egg so future creditors, including the government, cannot get to those assets.

If done correctly, it is all perfectly legal.  11 states have statutes that allow asset protection trusts.  I prefer domestic entities over foreign entities, but that is a long story as to why.

I had a doctor come into my office who had saved $2M cash over his career, he was now retired and in his 80s.  He wanted to protect that cash so it would go to the next generation and I explained he could use a Nevada asset protection trust to do just that - since he had no creditors chasing him.  He said he would think about it over the weekend.  Unfortunately, Saturday he was driving down the road and hit a pedestrian.  He came into my office Monday panicked saying he wanted to go ahead with the trust.  I said, so sorry Charlie, too late.  Once you have creditors including potential judgment creditors chasing you then you cannot fund such a trust.  It is obviously an American story because in the end we negotiated with the pedestrian to take just the insurance money and the we were able to go forward with the trust.  I love happy endings.

 

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:56 | Link to Comment Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

legal eagle,

if one wants to contact you personally to discuss establishing an irrevocable trust for domestic and foreign assets, how would he do that? 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:13 | Link to Comment legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Sorry buddy, do not give out my professional details here.

Sufficed to say, if you search lawyers in Nevada, or Alaska, the two most favorable jurisdictions for asset protection trusts, you will find several.  There are a few websites for Nevada lawyers that explain everything, including one by Jeffrey Burr and one by Steven Oshins.  They have nice detailed websites.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:56 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

rememeber, government can always change the laws/rules.

 

How about buy a gold coins and just hand it over? no portfolio to manage, no taxes, and nobody will be aware of the change of ownership?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:17 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

Why is he a "FREAK" for stating a fact?  If you don't pay your property taxes, the government can and will seize and sell your home to satisfy the liability.  The government can also raise property taxes, in essentially an arbitrary and unchecked fashion, if they so choose.  If you don't pay, men with guns come to remove you from "your" property.  This is fairly straightforward, yet it seems to upset you.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:12 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I always use television shows for political analogy

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:06 | Link to Comment NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

You are correct in this line of thinking, that is why I have opted to move onto my boat, all the comforts of a home, I own outright, and no property taxes. Win win!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:59 | Link to Comment lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

you have to pay to doc it.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 18:36 | Link to Comment NumNutt
NumNutt's picture

Total years slip fee is less then half of one months mortgage payment I was making on my house. Oh and when I get sick of winter I go south with everything. Plus I can take my entire 'home' and go on minnie vacations on the weekends. Don't think I will ever own another house again.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:48 | Link to Comment saiybat
saiybat's picture

They make it pretty clear in China when you buy a home there you buy a 70 year lease and chi-com can still take it from you at any time for any reason.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

I thought it was 100 years. ie. Hong Kong leased to British Empire. China got it back eventually...show syou Chinese are long term thinkers versus shortterm for Europeans and even shorter for Americans.

 

Regardless, when you hear that in China you never OWN a home/land but LEASE from the government may initially blame COMMUNISM. But in US it is the same game. 30 year mortgage is a LEASE TO OWN to see if you are a rich enough citizen. Then if you qualify you get to LEASE indefinitely for only 1% a year while YOU pay the upkeep, YOU pay the utilities, YOU pay the maintenance.....good deal for the government.

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:35 | Link to Comment DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

actually, it is a good plan.  But higher food & energy cost erode most saving gains from debt refinancing at lower interest rates.  This is a fatal flaw to the Fed ZIRP plan.  It lowers the interest rates, so more people can deleverage faster, but CPI inflation, from commodity speculation, due to cheap lending to hedgefunds, erodes its effectiveness.

 

Bernanke looks @ the Japanese ZIRP playbook as a guide, but the Yen isn't the world reserve currency, so US ZIRP has huge limitations, unless CME hikes margins, and unwinds leverage.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

So you're saying that our economy needs more (and better) central planning?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 16:44 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

either way USA style socialistic-capitalism will end in. It is just matter of do you want to go through  fake recovery followed by massive class war or just get it over with it now with bond haircuts?

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:36 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture


Here is an interesting post from Jim Sinclair's website about inflated bank asset values. Looks like we could be going deep into the Hurt locker with the banking sector.  

http://www.jsmineset.com/2011/10/23/jims-mailbox-799/

Bank Failures Provide Rare Glimpse Into True Asset Values

Each new bank failure also reveals key information regarding misleading financial reporting throughout the U.S. banking sector.  That is because figures disclosed by the FDIC in connection with each closing allow a glimpse into how dramatically bank assets are permitted to be overvalued under present accounting rules.

The true value of bank assets has been murky ever since April 2009, when the Financial Accounting Standards Board (“FASB”) repealed fair value accounting requirements.  Fair value requirements compelled banks and other financial companies to value their less liquid assets at prices approximating what they could actually be sold for in the open market.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:22 | Link to Comment swamp
swamp's picture

Housedebtorship = the only speculation in history paid for by the taxpayers, including the non speculating ones.

Real Estate only goes up. They're not making any more land. Gahuff Gahuff as they ridiculed me and NOW want ME TO PAY them too? 

Insanity.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:40 | Link to Comment Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

#WeCantWait to stay enslaved to debt forever!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:58 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

serfs up

ride the big one all the way down

wipeout 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:12 | Link to Comment sexcellent
sexcellent's picture

hope & change bitchez!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:12 | Link to Comment walcott
walcott's picture

depends where you're at. Prices are recovering where I live. Almost even again.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment sabra1
sabra1's picture

tent cities don't count!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:27 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What if the tents are on valuable property, like Walled Street?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:41 | Link to Comment Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

What I find really sad is that these are probably the same tents where, a couple of years ago, people would spend a night or two, in order to be first in line to sign up for those hot Florida/Vegas condo deals.  

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 16:09 | Link to Comment RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

I've been out of the loop for a while. Any of those deals still available?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 20:41 | Link to Comment Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

You only missed it by this much.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:18 | Link to Comment HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Tell me the truth.  Do you live at the end of the Rainbow?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:10 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Nah, in a van down by the river!

pods

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

SELL NOW!

 

SELL NOW!

 

You have actually found the goldenn unicorn shitting skittles in your hand.

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Lemme guess... that Porta-potty in ND is almost worth twice it's value now with all those outsiders coming in for employment..

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:12 | Link to Comment Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

let the govt hold your mortgage, then if you default they will lease the home to you, then they will say if you live in govt property then you must take drug tests, pass green inspections of your home, have child protective services visit your house once a month, etc

 

this is the perfect plan for all the sheeple to be controlled and have govt invade their home lives

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:19 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

That's kind of spooky...

Oh gosh. What a boondoggle. For the fraction that apply and get approved…poof…liens and titles are magically perfected. Waive all rights. Plus, participation in HARP is optional and mortgagors with problematic loans will be targeted. Profits are privatized – paper losses go right to the taxpayer. The world is saved! Empty suit politicians pandering for votes and trying to look good while the shears are sharpened.

For a few wealthy insiders I'm sure HARP will be wonderful. Yet more "secret investors" will get in on this and make purchases while asserting "non-disclosure" clauses.

What a cynic I am…lol.

Look at the recent (Oct. 18, 2011) opinion out of the Massachusetts Judicial Supreme Court.

Bevilaqua v. Rodriguez

$nip>

The Bevilacqua Court, quoting the Restatement (Third) of Property (Mortgages) c. 3, Introductory Note at 97 (1996) (addressing common law applicable in both title and lien theory States). "An equity of redemption is inseparably connected with the mortgage, Peugh v. Davis, 96 U.S. 332, 337 (1877), and endures as long as the mortgage continues in existence." [emphasis added].

$nip>

If an entity lacks standing to foreclose how do they have standing to modify?

You have the right to challenge the fucking assignments!

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:12 | Link to Comment Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

If someone wants to break into prison...let them.

Anyhow, if the gov doesn't start knocking off more countries for access to pre-and post peak resources, they too won't be able to send CPS and EnviroInspectors to their houses.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:13 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

The MSM is painting this program as something for "Honest people who could just choose to walk away from their underwater mortgages, but who are doing everything right." In the same series of stories I was looking at, they had headlines talking about how some people may have been foreclosed on unfairly and that the government was going to do something to compensate them for their trouble.

They are working over time trying to refellate and keep the lid on this powder keg. If no one figures it out, maybe it won't blow. If a bomb blows up in the woods, and no one hears it...It still blew up!!!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:22 | Link to Comment Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Re: MSM

Indeed, they are, in a broader sense, attempting to "re-fellate" a sagging Presidency, upwards and onwards to re-election.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:27 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

To hell with re-fellate.  I'm still waiting for my initial fellatio goddammit!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

you performed the initial fellatio....

dont you remember?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:41 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Wrong.  I am the felatee, not the fellator.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:04 | Link to Comment lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

you wish; when the president says "sucks dat dick, bitch." you sucks.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 17:47 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

If you paid taxes, you fellated. And swallowed.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 18:25 | Link to Comment Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

A man can build bridges and dams....he can cross the oceans alone on a sailboat....he can write great novels and plays that entertain millions....

But if that man gets caught sucking just one dick...well...

He is a cocksucker his whole damned life.

:)

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:29 | Link to Comment eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

Don Birnan:

 

Re-fellation will result in re-erection instead of reelection

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:26 | Link to Comment eaglefalcon
eaglefalcon's picture

"Honest people who could just choose to walk away from their underwater mortgages, but who are doing everything right."

 

Webster Collegiate Dictionary has a word for this, it's called "suckers"

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:14 | Link to Comment ddtrader
ddtrader's picture

Reaffirm the debt, cleanup all past title transgressions and keep the banks books straight.  The banks will love this as it simply reduces the income reported on the mortgage versus forcing the bank to recognize the losses from the foreclosures that would surely come. 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:34 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Ya know if all of you and your buddies become debt serfs then maybe my 10 to 1 leveraged real estate investment my "home" is more likely to reflate. So I guess I have mixed feelings!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:14 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

If the net worth of your home is a negative number, then ... you have ... a monthly payment in return for the right to occupy the dwelling.'

Yes. And if the net worth of Usgov is negative, then your tax payments merely secure you the right to stay out of jail ... there's no upside.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:15 | Link to Comment LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

One word... Rent

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:16 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Endless debt, Mo Money for handouts.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:16 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

I disagree - student loans are the perfection of interest slavery.  At least some mortgage debt can be discharged.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:24 | Link to Comment lilmac929
lilmac929's picture

I clicked the up button for your comment, but I wish there was a "fucking awesome" button for user profile names.  Awesome GFI...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

did obummer make some announcement about a new student loan restructuring program?  I heard that but don't know the details.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I know this one! I know this one! "it's all about the student body now...and baby your body is just FINE!"

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:43 | Link to Comment Jena
Jena's picture

And will part of that "restructuring" include who gets to attend college and what they get to study?  When you nationalize student loans, it seems like the next logical step.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Definitely need more Art History Majors with 160K of student loan debt...............................

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Yes, that is a phenomenal username.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Yes, that is a phenomenal username.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

I smell many students moving abroad in the future. 

"Come and get it!"

Should debt-slaves not be allowed passports?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment W.M. Worry
W.M. Worry's picture

Hardly indebted for life, that's hyperbole. A fifteen year mortgage doesn't take that long to pay off. By my calculations, about fifteen years. I've paid off two of them.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment W.M. Worry
W.M. Worry's picture

Actually I've paid off three. Bought my first house as a college student and rented out five bedrooms to room mates. Paid it off in five years. Forgot about that one.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 15:11 | Link to Comment RKDS
RKDS's picture

When the heck did you go college, the 1950s?  Man, I couldn't even borrow enough on my own for tuition (not private, state school), let alone a flippin' house.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:29 | Link to Comment karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Well the world needs fools.

thx

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment s2man
s2man's picture

Alfred, that's crazy talk!  What did you do, buy something you could afford?  That's unAmerican. /sarc

I got a 30-yr mortgage, in case something happens and I need the tiny payments.  But I'm on track to pay mine off in 5years.  1 down, 4 to go.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

People wonder when investment returns and interest rates will rise.  They cannot rise when lending rates are forcibly kept at zero.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

They must rise eveutally because the banks are  not making any money on THEIR investments...and they need all the cash they can get.

If everyone is not lending, and no one is making any money on investments, then eventually you either get a rise in interest rates or a stock market bubble and the smart ones running to gold till eventually either bubble explodes......and then citizens will  not be listening to anything any of the elites say. 

At that point, every leader will have their 'gaddafi meet pipe moment'

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:00 | Link to Comment Hot Apple Pie
Hot Apple Pie's picture

They must rise eveutally because the banks are  not making any money on THEIR investments...and they need all the cash they can get.

 

Nah, they don't need to make money form investments or interest, just add big fees to every bank transaction. Want cash from your account? $5 fee. Wrote a check? $20 fee. Talk to a human? $50 fee.

Bullish for mattresses.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 18:31 | Link to Comment Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

Thats funny....a good buddy of mine just opened a mattress store and is looking to open a second in the neighboring town. Business is good according to him.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:21 | Link to Comment slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

PR Flunkie: Hey guys the President has a new plan

Crowd: Oh....bummer.

 

;-)

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Ever see a used car salesman try and sell another used car salesman a car ?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:20 | Link to Comment The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

I know a whole 'zombie army' out there that won't take kindly to 'reducing' the debt burden of underwater homeowners...Many responsible renters and homeowners who have been 'rational' and 'thrifty' are going to blow a gasket when the Federal Govt. pays taxpayer dollars to support what many Americans view as bums and freeloaders...This is just f--kin' ridiculous...In the end the question arises...Where's my rent voucher or mortgage payment for being a responsible American...This could get extremely ugly and rightfully so!!!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

It should be that way, but I'm afraid enough will be sold on the notion that their home values will be inflated by it. They'll be wrong.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:41 | Link to Comment The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

Nothing can stop "homeowner equity" from dwindling...Once again only market forces and time can alleviate this F'd up situation...All Govt. intervention only makes the problem worse but I suppose seem tame and manageable in the election season...There's about 20% of Americans out there that will see this as nothing but 'socializing' the mortgage market...What's next...Why pay at all!!!  Lawsuits are going galactic and go long your local attorney...!!!!!!!!!!!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

you seem to forget the illegal activity of the banks in the first place, and of course the taxpayer dollars for generations of americans spent to prop up a bunch of gamblers

wall street and the big banks are the fucking freeloaders you tool

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:44 | Link to Comment The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

No..I didn't forget them...Rotten to the core...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:38 | Link to Comment DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

So this is the "plan for homeowners"?  Extend their debt whilst sitting on negative equity?

Another fucking stealth protection for the banks (not very well camouflaged - but none of it is these days).  Yet more servitude for the little guy while the elite get unlimited state-backed life support.

Are people really going to fall for this?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:30 | Link to Comment tsx500
tsx500's picture

"are people really going to fall for this ? " ........  well, does this http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80691723/   answer your question ?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

They have to keep this game going to keep the banks afloat.  But the bigger problem they face is of a paradigm shift.

If enough people started to realize the real rules of the game and notice the sucking sound in their lives is all the interest paid in homage to the banks for the privilege of using their money it is game over.

I remember a couple of years ago the big thrust was to recapture the people who were underbanked.  

That is also why it is pounded in your head that your credit score is the most important thing bar none.

pods

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:23 | Link to Comment bond trader
bond trader's picture

are the refied loans recourse?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:24 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Would you please stop picking on Obama.  He has done the best he can with a Harvard Degree in Socialism.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment devo
devo's picture

He might go down as a worse president than Bush. I figured that would be impossible, but here we are. Maybe by "change" he meant he was going to take all our change. In that case, you can't say we weren't warned.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Where do you get off saying "might"?

Bastard...do you really need four more to be sure?

jk about the bastard part.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:25 | Link to Comment israhole
israhole's picture

Well, you do get to tell your friends you're a "homeowner".  LMAO!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:26 | Link to Comment Yikes
Yikes's picture

Why is strategic default anathema to the Status Quo? Because the abandoned house will eventually have to be sold on the market, and at that point its true value revealed. The mortgage holder will then be forced to book a stupendous loss, and the inflated-paper "asset" on the books vanishes.

 

Why is a gov't program needed for this.  If it's in the banks best interest to extend and pretend they would of done it on their own.  I can only guess that we, the taxpayers, are going to be put on the hook for some or all of the reduced payments to the banks.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:29 | Link to Comment Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I think that this plan is so that the Banks can "perfect" the Note.

The interest incentive is so that the Banks that do not have the original Note can exchange a non existing Note for a Good and Marketble Note.   They will require the Borrower to sign a new Note for the new interest rate.

I think they realize that they can not foreclose on these Homeowners if they do not pay their Mortgage.  The Original Note was destroyed and they are having trouble in the Courts with the lost note Affidavids.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Well just wait 5 years and the new notes will be gone as well, than you can stop paying again or refinance again :)

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:09 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture
But that would mean that the plan is designed for those that are expected to default.
But industry analyst Ken Rosen inadvertently revealed the real motivation for the plan: to keep underwater homeowners from "walking away" in so-called "strategic defaults." underwater homeowners thrown lifeline by Obama (Mercury News).
Protect the dishonest banks, screw honest citizens, the Obama way.
Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:15 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Winner winner chicken dinner!

pods

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:28 | Link to Comment bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

the banker in cheif is gonna do the same refi for student loans and claim he is helping the students whose votes he believes he needs to win the election and also claim he supports the occupiers.... and the sad thing is theyre so clueless theyll believe him

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:29 | Link to Comment Crack-up Boom
Crack-up Boom's picture

ddtrader said "Reaffirm the debt, cleanup all past title transgressions..."

CHS missed the whole "let's solve the bankers' Linda Greene problem by suckering borrowers into reaffiirming their mortgages at lower interest rates" angle.  Major incentive for the government once again to save the naughty little banks.

And who knows what else the new "reaffirmed" agreements will state?  No one reads them before or after they sign.  Can Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac put devices in your home that can remotely regulate your power consumption (they hold a patent on such a device)?  What else?     

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:30 | Link to Comment SixFeetFromTheHedge
SixFeetFromTheHedge's picture

According to Google Trends it seems ex-students are having trouble paying back their student loans.. student loan bubble blowing up soon?

"Student loan forgiveness" on hot searchers today: http://www.google.nl/trends/hottrends?sa=X

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Well, you do get to write off the property taxes and interest off your income.

That will happen well through the life of the mortgage... Oh, wait... What's this 9-9-9 stuff again?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:39 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Desperation is setting in. They are going to come in either the front door or the back door my friend.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:32 | Link to Comment YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Obama should really spend his time figuring out how to attract tallented people to do startups which are the key employment driver. Once people have jobs, they will spend and they will buy houses.

All the populist maneuvers are reelection centric just like Trump has pointed out. Unfortunately Obama is too smart to do the right thing.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:33 | Link to Comment xcehn
xcehn's picture

Excellent post.  Bailouts are reserved for those that own the levers of power.  Just another transparent trick on the road to reelection.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment TruthHunter
TruthHunter's picture

OK Mr BO, (I think your plan stinks or is that your armpits?)

could you give us a negative interest rate until equity and LV are the same again?

 

 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:34 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

It's not even a new program. It's already been passed... in 2007 by Bush.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:36 | Link to Comment gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Wheres mine?  When does WF do this for the non FDIC folks......?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

The thing is about avoiding writedowns and making sure the broken chains of custody are repaired.  All of which will be at the expense of the public (of course) who is dumb enough and/or desperate enough to make a decision based on cash flow alone.  The incremental boost to GDP will be short lived though.  One last solid kick to the can is what it will amount to.  But the headwinds are gaining strength and thus, the half-life of this kick will be quite short.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:51 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

In my case and many others cash flow rules for another reason. I refinanced into a new thirty year and walked away with forty thousand back. Now if I am sued I have taken the last bit of equity and transferred it to financial instruments that cannot be taken in bankruptcy or to satisfy a judgment.

I doubt I will ever pay it off. I may try to refinance again, and if i walk away with a loss they wont be able to take anything from me. A gain would go to me, and any lawsuits in the next few years against this doctor cant pressure me to settle by threatening my assets with a judgment over my insurance limit.

My damn bank kept the original loan and never sold it. Just my luck.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Odin
Odin's picture

It doesn't really matter, all this debt isn't going to mean shit when hyperinflation sets in... You'll be able to pay off the balance on your house for the price of filling up your gas tank... Of course at that point they will try to shove some new global currency down our throats to "solve" the inflation problem...

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:13 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

I'll be waiting for them to pass a law that all bank loans need to be paid 1 old currency to 1 new currency. For everything else chop off 6 zeros from the old currency. Gotta protect the solvency of the banks after all.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

Prepaid property taxes bitchez!

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:43 | Link to Comment Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Something is afoot................headline story on Faux Business News.

"Ditch the Dollar" ?

Combine that with the Pope backing a central world bank and I smell trouble. Don't you love it ? The pontiff can give advice and financial wisdom but can't keep dicks from falling into little boys asses.

Oh' the humanity  ility

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 13:30 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Just doing God's Work. Stealing and buggering -- it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it.

If God is really omnipotent, why does He need anyone to do His Work?

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 14:10 | Link to Comment Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

maybe god doesn't give a shit, y'know?  about you and me and everyone else. 

maybe.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Yeah, this is just a futile attempt of the banks to get out from under their shadow inventory, even if it only lasts a few months when folks start missing payments again.  The size of the orifice must be immense with all the bankers hands up there working the puppet.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:54 | Link to Comment tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

The only thing more expensive than buying a house is "Making Homes Affordable"

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:59 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Best comment of thread.

The government Fannie, banks, etc, are doing everything they can to prevent housing from becoming affordable.

Government made health care unaffordable, college unaffordable, and housing unaffordable by just blindly subsidizing them.

Poor people cant afford this government and all the unintended consequences of policy.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Are people really going to fall for this?

Yes, because our populace is either contrite, dumb, or both.

Thebanks are getting more worried of a general debt strike.  Millions of Americans who refuse to pay their debt "obligations" due to protest, or the fact their job/lack of job doesn't bring in enough income to pay the rising bank tax that are mortgage payments. 

I cannot wait til I get into the black from my CC/Student debt. I am 13.5K away.  It is going to be so sweet when I finally "free".

BTW, great article here.  never see so many +1s in the comments.  You really could insert any POTUS, as all politicans are in bed with bankers. 

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:01 | Link to Comment bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

So far you still get an tax deduction for the interest expense and taxes when you own.  You do not get that when renting. Of course you need to have income (a job) to pay that mortgage.  Oops.

Someone (once and for all) need to build the final rent-own analysis tool that factors in ALL the expenses, tax deductions owning verses renting and calculate the IRR for the peasant homeowner-renter.

I for one am waiting for the OCC to rule that banks need not categorize their OREO for sale, but keep it on the books as rentals infinitely.  When will banks be landlords en mass?  Banks have already figured out that rents collected pay more than bonds, and they keep the property for the good times.

Some food for thought.  Go back and review your genealogy records via old US census records.  For those families with long American roots, look at the occupations of prior generations - the majority of people were sharecroppers that rented.  There was not much of a middle class until after WW2.  We are slipping back to that period.

It is always better to own something than rent.  Its just the economics of it all and whether the laws will change enough that let you continue to own things.

The bankers, mega-corporations made into human beings, the crooks called politicians and smart lawyer-lobbyists can turn the country upside down and inside-out all they want.

But America's political culture foundation is based on hunting.

We are a nation of hunters.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:14 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

"Go back and review your genealogy records via old US census records.  .... look at the occupations of prior generations - the majority of people were sharecroppers that rented."

Disagree. I'm the 4th generation and my ancestors were coal miners, carpenters, roofers, etc., gererally skilled or semi-skilled labor.

If you go farther back, the US economy was agrarian but there were many land owning subsistence farmers. This varied regionally - in the South, maybe sharecropping for both white and black - but so much land was available in the US that you might have been a poor farmer, but you owned that patch of land. Remember all the free land given out under the Homestead Act.

There were plenty of indentured servants pre-revolution but that was not permanent slavery. I have at least 1 relative who married into the family (pity on her!) who has a document freeing her 9th-gen-past parent who satisfied his contract after building 2 houses of stone of about 1600 sf each.

That was back-breaking work, man. But at least he got out from under it. Today's debt, maybe not.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:41 | Link to Comment wisefool
wisefool's picture

Very good post. However in nature hunters usually self correct because they eventually get to the 7th stage of a hunters mindset. Which is conservation and passing down a sustainible tradition to the next generation. Check out any predator-prey cyclical population chart.

The problem with tax avoidance and end game corporatism is that it becomes a cancer. Cancer is just bad ass cells that outcompete all the neighbors. Take a company like G.E. which is supposed to be about technology. I garentee a buck private tax accountant makes more than a mid-career technical worker. And the K-street messengers trample over this country's capitol and its constitution like demi-gods, with corresponing accrutrements, which is why they call it Gucci gulch.

We need sound money or sound taxation. The other will follow. I garentee that some "rich" person making $100k/yr is not stealing from the poor. But when guys like Romney and Kerry and John Edwards pay 11% effective tax rates and hold orgies, all that banquet food wasted IS taxing the poor by inflating the cost of poor peoples nessecities.

 Why won't Mitt Romney make his tax returns public?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/From-the-Wires/2011/1026/Why-won-t-Mitt-Romney-make-his-tax-returns-public

I dont exactly think it is class warfare to expect elected officials to pay a similar rate of taxation as their constituents.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 18:27 | Link to Comment saiybat
saiybat's picture

I'm all for elected officials paying the estate tax. There's no such thing as sound taxes. Sound money? Gold money won't make corruption go away you still get the whole package of a monetary system except inflation. Native Americans were once a noble people and look what money did to them they're just like everyone else.

Wed, 10/26/2011 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

60 Million Possibly Un-Forclose-able MERS Mortgages?

Well, the Obama Bin Lyin' plan gets the TBTF's off the hook for their fraud closure schemes by getting the debt serfs to refi and and hand the TBTF's brand spankin' new clear foreclose-able titles...

What a win-win for Wall Street's criminal banksters and toady politicians...

What a lose-lose for every one else...

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