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Guest Post: Pakistan And India To Go To War Over Water?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John C.K. Daly of

Pakistan And India To Go To War Over Water?

A peaceful and stable Pakistan is integral to western efforts to pacify Afghanistan, but Islamabad’s obsessions with its giant eastern neighbor may render such issues moot.

Since partition in 1947, Pakistan and India have fought four armed conflicts, in 1947, 1965, 1971 (which led to the establishment of Bangladesh, formerly East Pakistan) and the 1999 Kargil clash.
With the exception of the 1971 conflict, which involved rising tensions in East Pakistan, the others have all involved issues arising from control of Kashmir.
But now a rising new element of discord threatens to precipitate a new armed clash between southern Asia’s two nuclear powers – water.
Lahore’s “The Nation’ newspaper on Sunday published an editorial entitled, “War with India inevitable: Nizami,” the newspaper’s Editor-in-Chief and Nazaria-i-Pakistan Trust Chairman, Majid Nizami, asked his fellow citizens to prepare for a war with India over water issues. Nizami told those attending the “Pakistan-India relations; Our rulers- new wishes” session at Aiwan-e-Karkunan Tehrik-e-Pakistan, which he chaired, “Indian hostilities and conspiracies against the country will never end until she is taught a lesson.”
While The Nation is a conservative daily, part of the Nawa-i-Waqt publishing group, with a circulation of roughly 20,000, it has a website, and what’s more, close ties to Pakistan’s highest military circles, so Nizami’s comments should hardly be rejected out of hand.
Furthermore, Niazmi’s audience included some high ranking Pakistani officials, including Nazaria-i-Pakistan Vice Chairman Dr Rafique Ahmed; Pakistan Movement Workers-Trust Chairman, retired Colonel  Jamshed Ahmed Tareen; former Foreign Secretary Shamshad Ahmed Khan; Jamiat Ulema-e-Pakistan Secretary General Qari Zawar Bahadur; retired Air Marshall Khurished Anwar Mirza; retired Brigadier Hamid Saeed Akhtar and Jamaat-e-Islami Lahore Chief Ameer-ul-Azeem, among others.
At issue are Pakistan’s concerns over India’s ongoing construction of two hydroelectric dams on the upper reaches of the Indus River. Islamabad is concerned that the 45 megawatt, 190-foot tall Nimoo-Bazgo concrete dam 44 megawatt Chutak hydroelectric power project will reduce the Indus River’s flow towards Pakistan, as they are capable of storing up to 4.23 billion cubic feet of water, violating the terms of the bilateral 1960 Indus Water Treaty. The Indus, which begins in Indian-controlled Kashmir, is crucial to both India and Pakistan, but is currently experiencing water flows down 30 percent from its normal levels. The Indus is Pakistan's primary freshwater source, on which 90 percent of its agriculture depends. According to a number of Pakistani agriculture and water experts, the nation is heading towards a massive water shortage in the next couple of years due to insufficient water management practices and storage capacity, which will be exacerbated by the twin Indian hydroelectric projects, as they will further diminish the Indus’ flow.
So, if push comes to shove, who’s got Pakistan’s back?
During the Boao Forum for Asia, on China’s southern Hainan island on 1 April, Pakistan and China agreed to support each other “in all circumstances” and vowed to uphold their sovereignty and territorial integrity at all costs. Pakistani Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani told Chinese Executive Vice Premier Li Keqiang, “China’s friend is our friend, and China’s enemy is ours,” adding Pakistan considers China’s security as its own security and supports China’s position on Taiwan, Tibet and Xinqiang. Li replied that China would support Pakistan’s sovereignty and territorial integrity in every situation, telling Gilani, “No matter what changes take place at international level, we will uphold Pakistan’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.”
It might be noted here that in October 1962, coinciding with the Cuban missile crisis, India and China fought a brief but bitter war along their disputed Himalayan border.

Fifty years later, China and India have yet to resolve their border issues over Kashmir and China continues to claim most of India's Arunachal Pradesh to the base of the Himalayas in the absence of any definitive treaty delineating the border. Kashmir remains the site of the world's largest and most militarized territorial dispute with portions under the de facto administration of China (Aksai Chin), India (Jammu and Kashmir), and Pakistan (Azad Kashmir and Northern Areas).

No guesses therefore as to whom Beijing might back should Pakistani-Indian tensions continue to rise.
Accordingly, to keep the peace, one might paraphrase Ronald Reagan in Berlin – “Prime Minister Singh, tear down those dams!”
But don’t bet on it.


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Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:47 | 2345726 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Well, shiii-it...

So much for trying to spark a "color revolution" in Pakistan!

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:01 | 2345750 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Jump up turn around,

Kick the paki to the ground!

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:04 | 2345754 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

This may be the color revolution the US is looking for...anything to screw up Pakistan.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:08 | 2345757 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I hope they all kill each other - they'll be a lot less shouting

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 21:34 | 2345948 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

At least China has one child policy. India needs to control population.


India and Pakistan fight each other everyday anyways. Dumbasses kill each other under the control of Russia+China versus US+UK.



Sat, 04/14/2012 - 22:48 | 2346019 patb
patb's picture

China has an official policy.

India's female infanticide culture is tripping off an even worse sitaution in India.


It's a real mess, a goddamned mess.



Sun, 04/15/2012 - 00:55 | 2346124 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Channeling Global concerns.... or so it seems... :-)



Water is a global concern now. Everyone will fight over it. Here, in Bangalore, most common sound in my neighbourhood is Bore-wells digging for water. Used to get it at 2-300 feet. 

Now it's a 1,000 feet and falling......


Sun, 04/15/2012 - 11:44 | 2346522 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Nothin more aggressive than a bunch of horny men with no women. War will be brutal. Testosterone factor. 

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:32 | 2345830 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Not without going up against China they aren't...

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:17 | 2345881 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

I don't think Pakistan needs any help to screw things up. They are doing a fine job on their own.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 04:50 | 2346222 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

The slow encroachment of China into South Asia began with the occupation of Tibet in the 1950s. It was extended by the 1962 border war which was halted only by the forceful intervention of President Kennedy. It was resumed again by the occupation of a portion of Kashmir by the Red Army on the request of Pakistan. It continues to this day with the encirclement of India by various Chinese naval and military bases in the region.
The only thing which contains this new and unprecedented South Asian power (i.e. China) is Indias development of thermonuclear weapons and long range delivery systems.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:50 | 2345731 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

not that I am any fan of Bill Clinton but there were portions of his keynote speech at the export import bank thing a couple days ago that touch on the growth vs water issue.  he mentions that one major river system in China is drying up and they are attempting to build canals to another major river system.  he fears this will dry up both and push China to tap the Mekong.  Pakistan IS in trouble but it isn't only Pakistan - the entire south east asian box of dominoes is vulnerable to the water issue.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:15 | 2345806 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

As is the Middle East. For the Arabs and the Israelis, the West Bank is as much about water as it is about land.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:15 | 2346384 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

Aral Sea is just about gone:


For years now, the Colorado River runs dry before it makes it to the sea.

In the Western U.S. the Ogallala Aquifer is rapidly being depleted.

Population increasing.  Water Resources dwindling.  A very bad trend.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:51 | 2345734 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Some people think they can't have enough lead for the future.

Others think we don't have enough oil for the future.

Me? I'll take water over both.

Call me silly.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:31 | 2345828 xela2200
xela2200's picture


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:52 | 2345736 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Two things increasingly in demand for modern agriculture; water and oil.

Oil is used for machinery and irrigation pumps, not to mention harvesting, processing, and transportation.  Oil is also important in the production of fertilizers and pesticides (insecticides and herbicides).

Conversely, the increasing use of artificial fertilizers increases the need for water as the salt levels in the soil rise.  Water conservation practices such as drip irrigation unfortunately exacerbate the situation.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:59 | 2345749 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Yet over 80% of the world's agriculture is still done the old way: an ox followed by a scantily clad rubenesque semeuse.


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:15 | 2345765 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

Two things increasingly in demand for modern agriculture; water and oil.


actually it's three things


water, oil and the (recombinant) DNA of all manner of beast, fish, insect, human and plant

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:53 | 2345791 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Earl, most of us can't vote up or down if you start a post with a quote.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:52 | 2345738 Reformed Sheep
Reformed Sheep's picture

Are there any other nuclear neighbours where one has the source of essentially all water, and the desire/need to sequester it for their own people?

This could get messy in more ways than one...


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:56 | 2345742 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

What the world needs now is contraception.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:09 | 2345761 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

and the idea that parents should feed their own children

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:01 | 2345857 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture



What the world needs now is contraception.


not to worry the Eugenicists are on the case

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:13 | 2345763 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture


In 2500 years,  the worlds population will equal the mass of the planet, if we maintain a 1.3% growth rate.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:16 | 2345808 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

No problem in one billion years the mass of human flesh would be a thousand solar masses and collapse into a black hole.  Problem solved.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:09 | 2346377 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

so we've got that going for us.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:15 | 2346385 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Soylent green is people!

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 21:39 | 2345951 Fox-Scully
Fox-Scully's picture

contraception s not absolute but abstinence is!

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:15 | 2346046 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Yes, because that works so well. It is not like we have millions of years of evolution driving us to reproduce.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 15:07 | 2346974 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Kinda conflicts with "Mary's" situation eh?

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 22:09 | 2345977 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

Yeah, eddiebe, part of the TPTB plan is to contraceive humanity out of existence, or at least down to the hundreds of millions.  I hope that you are part of the elite...otherwise, they are coming after you.  You are under attack just like the poor Indians and Pakistanis. 

You need to read a bit more on the founding of Planned Parenthood and Margaret Sanger.

China is the model, says David Rockefeller (From a China Traveler, 1973)

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 17:59 | 2345746 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

CIA/Neo-Con wet dream going on in Balochistan...........these idiots want to partition Pakistan and kick the Chinese out of the port cities............

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:26 | 2345777 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

You brought it up...

Blood borders
How a better Middle East would look
By Ralph Peters
Armed Forces Journal - June 2006

Complete with fun-filled "before and after" maps!

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:06 | 2345756 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Coca-Cola seems to get all the water they want in these poor countries so they can sell their crap to the locals.....



"Of the 200 countries where Coca-Cola is sold, India reportedly has the fastest-growing market, but the adverse environmental impacts of its operations there have subjected the parent company and its local bottlers to a firestorm of criticism and protest. There has been a growing outcry against Coca-Cola's production practices in India, which are draining out vast amounts of public groundwater and turning farming communities into virtual deserts."

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:44 | 2345843 Reformed Sheep
Reformed Sheep's picture

Not just in this region - same in the US and elsewhere.

There are places in the US where water is classed as a resource that can be taken without limit, including by corporations.

Doesn't work that way, when residents of a municipality end up having to ration their supply while Nestle, Coca-Cola, Pepsico, et-al can pump all they want, and then sell this 'free' water to the locals at the same price (or higher) as gasoline...


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 22:59 | 2346031 patb
patb's picture

people drink the coke and then piss it back, then it ends up as rain...

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:20 | 2346049 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Bottled water is a big problem also which includes Nestle as a culprit. A plant literally can lower the water table in a region killing everything around them. Hey, but we need to drink it until our pea comes out completely transparent. The gods of marketing have spoken. They said that we don't get enough hydration from the water that we drink. They forget to tell people that 80% of our water needs can be obtained from prepared meals (sorry no chips).

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 01:06 | 2346138 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

8 Glasses a day was the biggest lie. It is BAD for us. Terrible actually. Changes our body chemistry, dilutes, plays with ph..... not to speak of BPA...

Drink when thirsty, eat when hungry. Period. Simple.


Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:07 | 2346372 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

unless you have kidney stones.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 12:24 | 2346635 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Little known fact. You can actually DIE from drinking too much water.

ORI I had a strong dislike for you, but that is changing as I noticed our posts are starting to look similar.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:12 | 2345759 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

I never understood why they fight for Kashmir. Kashmir is a hell hole with no natural ressources...except water.

And yeah China and India are probably gonna fight it again over the border dispute... and India probably gonna get his ass kicked.

If India-Pakistan go to war, it'll probably turn nuclear with tens of million of dead...

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:25 | 2345775 RichyRoo
RichyRoo's picture

Look at a map, Kashmir is the centre...

India to the south, old UK colony, NWO slave labor, USA ally

China to the east, NWO slave labor, USA enemy

Pakistan to the west, China ally, USA enemy

And to the north, all the ex-USSR 'stan' countries ... crazy horse

And Kabul is only 500km from Kashmir accross a tiny little spit of northern India, so throw that mess into the pot as well.

So we have Russia, China, India, USA (via bases) plus potentially radical Islam all clustered around the same tiny patch of ground.

Its a powder keg.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 01:07 | 2346140 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well said Richy, I'd just change that to India, current UK colony. Still in the Grip. Completely. Just does nto look like it on the surface.


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:18 | 2345810 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

And now if you think a little more you will understand why ISI played a game of chess with USA and why the mighty superpower could not control few hundred ragtag Afghans in ten years. Pakistan has all it hopes pined to the collapse of America through its economy.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:38 | 2345904 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

The Kashmir partition was the last act of a dying colonial Britain. It would be sort of like if England, after losing the Revolution, gave away something valuable it had no rights to (say, Louisiana) to a neighboring country (say, Mexico), and had Europe enforce it.

The way I feel about it is, primarily, fuck the US corporate interests that have offshored jobs there. My only question is whether the crony US would use military force to defend Hyderabad and Bangalore. This is one of those rhetorical questions.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:43 | 2346246 Zeff
Zeff's picture

Kashmir with no natural resources? I think you need to get out of your couch and see the reality on the ground. Rivers originate from there, from strategic to natural positions, it is a gem.

Mon, 04/16/2012 - 10:00 | 2348338 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Everyone in the region depends on runoff from the Hindu Kush.

This is why I'm skeptical of China's long-term growth. It is incapable of providing food and water to its people without nature's benevolence.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:17 | 2345769 Fix It Again Timmy
Fix It Again Timmy's picture

Money used to arm both nations could better be used for solving the water issues and providing alternatives to building dams, but huge dams, arms, missiles, and nukes are sexier...

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:28 | 2346058 xela2200
xela2200's picture

What you want to be rational too. Sorry, these two countries hate each other. As a historical note, Pakistan and India were one country as Ghandi got independence from England. However, they just can't stand each other, so they split. Pakistan quickly started killing the Indians that ventured into the country via train, but they were nice enough to send the dead bodies back in return trip. India soon did the sane thing.

And you want them to come together to solve their problems. Good luck. Next month, Yugoslavia reunification.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 10:47 | 2346465 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

Check the history again:

The Indian Independence Act 1947 (10 & 11 Geo 6 c. 30) was as an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom that partitioned British India into the two new independent dominions of India and Pakistan [over the objections of Ghandi].


Many contend

that he [Mountbatten, Britain’s special envoy sent to arrange British withdrawal] hastened the independence process unduly and recklessly, foreseeing vast disruption and loss of life and not wanting this to occur on the British watch, but thereby actually causing it to occur, especially in Punjab and Bengal. These critics contend that Mountbatten cannot escape responsibility for the way in which events spiraled out of control in the run up to and after independence.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 12:25 | 2346643 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Fair enough. I got my "facts" from Indians that I used to work with. I guess there are two sides to every story.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 01:52 | 2346159 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


soon thre will be no 'money'

we will have a situation in which a billion means nothing

we have a little time left for this money thing, after that time is up it will be a struggle to provide things of value to shore up our point of view

our military will probably come home and we will have to fight with principles and lets not completely abandon our principle especially if we don't have much to back up our promises (gold anyone?)

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:18 | 2345770 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture
Guest Post: US And Canada To Go To War Over Water?

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:26 | 2345823 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

I wonder what side Canada will take in a war between Pakistan and India being that our population is almost about 20% pakistaini, 20% East Indian, 30% chinese, 20% muslim and about 5% caucasians.

Nice immigration polices we have had for the past 30 years. People I know cannot get immigration from Britain but all you have to do is claim to be some sort of fucking refugee and you waltz into the country and get on all the free programs. Granted, most of the chinese are industrious and bring assets with them but most of the others don't bring shit except a bunch of values from the homeland.

Canada will be exactlly like most of the European countries within a generation.

Let them fight. How can you have over a billion people in an area the size of Quebec.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:06 | 2345866 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

Canada is fortunate that its governors had the foresight to open its border to the races and nationalities  that you have enumerated; if America had been so wise their problems would be far fewer


as for a war with the US, there will never be one as Canada will be (like Taiwan) assimilated into the mother-ship in the late teens of the 21st century

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:33 | 2346066 xela2200
xela2200's picture

All countries have had an open door policy from the beginning of times. Until, the quota gets filled, then they become the undesirable scape goats. Canada still has room, so spare me the rhetoric. Although, Mexico is still trying to get rid of those pesky Texans. They already conquered the landscaping industry. Pools are next year.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:37 | 2346243 memyselfiu
memyselfiu's picture
Ethnic groups-CANADA

British Isles origin 28%, French origin 23%, other European 15%, Amerindian 2%, other, mostly Asian, African, Arab 6%, mixed background 26%



Sun, 04/15/2012 - 10:53 | 2346479 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

What is the date of your stats? The percentage of caucasians in greater Vancouver is 38%. I have no problem with immigration if it is done equitably. When the people being allowed into the country is based upon how shitty their country is, that is a real poor policy. The majority of immigrants are from third world countries and Canada is not going to solve all their problems by moving them here.

I am not full of myself, I do not want my children to live 23 to a house and work for six bucks an hour. Having a fear of gangs that have moved here or muslims that want to change how we, as Canadians, live, is not unreasonable. I guess we chould change the school programs for the muslims because they do not want to abide by the existing rules of the country they fucking immigrated into. Try asking Iran or Pakistan to change a program to accomodate Christains after you claim refugee status and work your way into their country.

I have no fear of immigrants who want to move to Canada and try to live and work the way we currently live. I cannot stand the fact that one person can come here on refugee status and then have 15 more family members follow him and all go instantly on government assistance. Why should a sixty year old be able to immigrate and go on pension when they never paid a fucking dime into it?

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:46 | 2345844 Reformed Sheep
Reformed Sheep's picture

Won't come to war - the Harper government will just give it all to the US...

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:39 | 2345906 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

The Americans will use the ultimate weapon against Canada... No NHL Hockey for You!

If the US stopped the Canadian teams from crossing the border and forced the Canadian teams to only play against themselves, civil war would break out by the end of the first season.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 21:29 | 2345942 owensdrillin
owensdrillin's picture

If they did that, the Canucks would probably win a cup. (or not)

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:36 | 2346071 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Don't mess with their hockey. The only thing that Canadians seem to riot about. That and been called buddy. Yeap, they are strange people.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:17 | 2345771 toady
toady's picture

Most people look to Israel and the Middle East as a flash point to start the next major world conflict, but this Pakistan / India thing is where I think the shit will hit the fan.

And water is a good reason. Water will also be a problem in China as glaciers in the mountains become depleted. That combined with the MASSIVE populations in the area will lead to major conflicts.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:27 | 2345778 RichyRoo
RichyRoo's picture

Plus being 'brown people' their deaths will make good TV and be politically acceptable in the USA, who will be making a fortune selling arms to the Indians.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 12:28 | 2346648 toady
toady's picture

Yep, good for the good ol' usa all the way around. They just need to only have troops on the ground for humanitarian reasons (delivery of arms sales) and a plausible denability

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:38 | 2345782 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

India and china will once go to war. China would like nothing more than to divert all the himalaya water like they're doing with the mekong in laos.

But this is the kicker! Pakistan and india are in talks to form a fron against china because they both realize they'll both lose if china joins the war.

And time is a killer right now because india already knows the drought and pakistan will also within 10 years when most of the biggest glaciers are gone witch supply the water and still cause the floods in pakistan.

In india the monsoons are shorter and it rains less and water consumption risises each day.

Just go to india on google maps and soom in on the north! City after city after city! If you go there, you constantly see people everywhere. And believe me, it's a big country.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:51 | 2345912 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

I find it ironic that if there is a thread on global warming it's a 500 comment shitstorm and conspiracy party;  but change the topic to water wars and everybody knows whats up.  (comment not directed at you specifically)

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 08:08 | 2346318 BliptoP3
BliptoP3's picture

Don't confuse global warming with global warming caused by C02(which is completely idiotic); for those of us who believe the sun controls our climate, and things are about to get much colder, - this won't help the water situation as the glaciers will grow, but there will be less melt run-off.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:42 | 2345783 Manny
Manny's picture

It has all to do with the fact that Pakistan never established an identity of its own after becoming a nation. The founders of the country were too caught up in the big brother envy for India. Couple that with they were nation with not so many resources and were not good at creating a vibrant economy. So whenver they were down they started criticizing India for all their problems. That worked wonders with the people. And since people responded postively to all the India bashing all Pakistani governments whether they were military leaders or the few spans of democracy resorted to India bashing at every opputunity. Now the seeds of hatred are sown so deep that it becomes impossible for the people of Pakistan to ever consider India a friend. And a lot of Pakistan machinery is devoted to supporting terrorists and terrorists camps to keep a covert war going against India. So they supported Khalistani extremists in Punjab during the 80s and the Kargil war in the 90s and the attack on Indian parliament and the attacks of 26/11. All stage managed and performed with the blessings of the ISI and Pakistan.

On the other hand although India has a democratic identity the politicians in charge are the most corrupt on the planet and are always too busy enriching themselves. India has spent a lot on defense in the last 3 decades but because of corruption the defenses today are weaker compared to Pakistan or China as compared to 3 decades ago. And the co-operation between Pakistan and CHina has got stronger. This has allowed both nations to flex their muscles. It won't be out of the reach of imagination to see Pakistan initiate a war with implicit or explicit support from China.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:44 | 2345910 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

That is too simplistic.  As this relates to foreign affairs, the sophisticated elitist knows to follow the money.  The essence of foreign affairs is graft and corruption.

In this case, follow the money.

This crude chap who wrote this story about China giving Pakistan free reign over these matters has spent too much time watching the Power Rangers.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 01:24 | 2346149 Manny
Manny's picture

It is based on reality. You should Google the extent of co-operation between Pakistan and China.For both of them its the story of my enemies enemy is my friend.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 13:40 | 2346793 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

China tells US "Pakistan is our Israel"


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 18:46 | 2345786 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

FYI, rather a LOT of major oil producing fields/regions are at the latitude that would get fallout spread from a India/Pakistan nuclear exchange -- to say nothing of Shanghai.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:09 | 2345804 jimmyjames
jimmyjames's picture

An open fluid border crossing?

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:41 | 2345840 nmewn
nmewn's picture

An eco-pacifist's worst nightmare...back the green side or pick a brown side or wait for the yellow side to make the decision for


Sat, 04/14/2012 - 19:58 | 2345852 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

well, at least they're not proposing nukuler power plants! [at least not on this page...]

this whole border thing is great, tho

  • take no shit
  • take no prisoners
  • take your lunch
Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:02 | 2345856 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

Luvz me some desalinations...


Desalination: The ultimate Green Technology research area.

Power them with windmills...


Long desalination plant manufacturers....

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:01 | 2345859 stock trout
stock trout's picture

If a war goes nuclear it will shut down virtually all US Fortune 500 companies, which run their data centers and operational support directly or indirectly in India. Nuclear war would actually improve US employment greatly.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:04 | 2345865 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Stop WWIII and for $399.00 buy a

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Sat, 04/14/2012 - 20:39 | 2345905 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm taking the [ 5th ] on this one!

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 22:36 | 2346006 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Pakistan and China (may be Russia too) are playing the same game, America and Pakistan played against USSR in Afghanistan.
That region is called "graveyard of empires".

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 21:09 | 2345928 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

A “peaceful and stable” Pakistan to “pacify“ Afghanistan??

How sweet does that Orwellian perversion of language disguise the bitter reality.

A strife-ridden and unstable Pakistan is the de facto current preference for the architects of empire.

The first choice for the US leadership has been, and is, to have a dependent and subservient military government rule over Pakistan. The “peace” would be for the US to sell arms to both India and Pakistan. The “peace” would be for both poverty-stricken nation to silently divert their wealth to armaments and a corrupt oligarchy. The “stability” would come by making everyone forever accept that state of affairs.

A strife-ridden and unstable Pakistan is the actively sought preference.

It is the preference to block the Iran-Afghanistan-Pakistan pipeline. It is the preference to thwart and choke off China from resources. It is the preference to provide excuse for ringing Russia with military bases. It is the Shock Doctrine, opportunism coupled with made-up crises.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 22:20 | 2345989 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

The turmoil in MENA called Arab spring is direct result of dying American empire. India was soviet ally till her collapse and than India stepped in to the sinking American ship. Best India could do was to be friendly with their neighbors. What a foreign policy nightmare is to pick a fight with china and friendly with USA. Time has changed. Brazil has gained tremendous respect simple standing against American policies in South America.

India should think a little more than a year ahead in the future.

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 21:12 | 2345934 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

India and Pak... what a pair to draw to!  With China as a wildcard,,, it would be horrible if India and Pakistan and China started nuking each other...


Wouldn't it?

Sat, 04/14/2012 - 21:34 | 2345947 janchup
janchup's picture

I'm glad this is all a dream.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:31 | 2346395 rwe2late
Sat, 04/14/2012 - 23:52 | 2346081 Hangfire
Hangfire's picture

Maybe this would be a good time to switch from earthlink as my tech support may be turned to dust soon.   

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 01:26 | 2346150 zonkie
zonkie's picture

While proxy wars, insurgency and terror attacks have been going on for a while, they will never fight a full on war.
Nuclear deterrence really works
This is all a ploy to get concessions and counter concessions from the west.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 02:10 | 2346167 Savvy
Savvy's picture

This is odd and a bit off/on topic. Fellow traveling in India took this pic in 2010

On the first attempt I took lots of pictures but this one stood out the most. I took several at the same time in colour and then several in black and white. The ones in colour show nothing but the one in black and white shows what appears to be some kind of ship in the sky.


Modelled in 3D with Autocad


I bring it up because the UFO (for lack of a better term) seems amphibious


link to thread:

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 03:10 | 2346183 George Orwell
George Orwell's picture

For years I have been advocating a preemptive nuclear strike against China, India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh as a way of lowering human population and mitigate the effects of Peak Oil.  I think water can be the catalyst to make that happen.

Pakistan launches a nuclear strike against India over water.  India responds by launching their nukes.  China joins in and nukes India.   And finally the US joins in and nuke both China, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

We can kill about 3+ billion people in one swoop.  Available oil freed up by killing them is on the order of 20 million barrels per day.  That's oil that you can continue to use to haul your fat americans asses around town in a Chevy Suburban at $2.50 a gallon.

Don't you want to pay $2.50 a gallon?

Unleashing a biological weapon into the region is still on the table of course.  But killing 3+ billion people using bio agents will take time. 


George Orwell

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 04:50 | 2346221 FinkPloyd
FinkPloyd's picture

"For years I have been advocating a preemptive nuclear strike"

   Might i ask to whom and where have you being doing this advocating ??

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:24 | 2346237 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

Theres a fault in your logic chain though. Why would China nuke India in return for India nuking Pakistan? That would simply invite their own annihilation in a second strike. Maybe you think China really cares about Pakistan though? But heres the point, they dont.
As for India however, they might be best advised to treat any Pakistani nuclear strike as a strike by China and act accordingly. So your scenario might just play out after all.
That said, this is some quality trolling though, and calling yourself George Orwell, nice touch.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 10:47 | 2346467 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

let them all nuke.  i'm tired of h1b visas.  figure it out for themselves.  no more off shore and no more here.   i live in gandhi ghetto.  it is not fun.  they are not pleasant when they know they have the majority.


Tue, 04/17/2012 - 05:12 | 2346774 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Time to stand against H1b was 10 years ago.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:48 | 2346409 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 No doubt the REAL George Orwell, humanitarian, opponent of oppression and totalitarianism, would not be surprised at the


by a self-declared bigot and wannabe mass murderer.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 03:26 | 2346193 bharat
bharat's picture

I never understood why India was considered China's enemy. So just because the people of two countries compete for natural resources, they should be considered enemies? The Chinese govt. really botched it up by strategizing all other countries in Asia as inferior or enemies. India is now firmly allied with the western powers, and given the state of American military strength, I don't think any one can challenge them. With over a 100 million Christians in India, the western elite will be forced to act if there is any sort of major war that would threaten India. What is really sad is that both India and China have the financial and technical resources to bridge the resource gap especially in oil (i.e. reducing oil consumption through electrification of transportation etc). The Chinese govt. unfortunately took the attitude that because China is big enough, they can reach unipolar status without making any compromise with other major countries in the region. 


Regarding Pakistan, we have gone through a divorce, the border is fenced and that is that. Everyone want to have a better economic relationship with them, and no Indian wants to occupy Pakistan or threaten its territory. The world is at a fork.  We could follow the path of conflict, or instead work together to reduce problems. There are elements in Pakistan that want Islamic supremacy in the Indian subcontinent. It looks like instead the Pakistani economy is collapsing and will take down the organized state with it, because of this obsession with religious dominance.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 05:52 | 2346249 Zeff
Zeff's picture

I think your overdid Pakistan here. Just because India has had economic progress, you can't hide all the problems in it. If Pakistan has a deep rooted distaste for Indian Establishment, then it is based on something! 1971, Bangladesh, Kashmir. No one's fighting over castles in the air my boy. India was the first one to break their promises over kashmir, what did Pakistan have in 1947? No money, no political system, it was a wreck. India frankly had alomst everything form the start, money, ammunition factories and whatmore a political system. If Pakistan has Lashkar-e-Taiba, India has Shiv Sena. Pity that due to the economic clout, no one sees it.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 11:18 | 2346505 rwe2late
Sun, 04/15/2012 - 09:38 | 2346401 egoist
egoist's picture

If nukes - so lamented on these ZH pages - were built in India, they might not need the dams and might have enough surplus power to pump / purify water for Pakistan. That is the source of peace.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 10:01 | 2346421 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Aside from the arguable pros and cons of nuclear power ...

the technological ability to be a good and peaceful neighbor,

hardly is the  "source" of being one,

as is clearly demonstrated in the current world.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 10:54 | 2346482 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Water, bitchez!

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 11:47 | 2346533 bahaar
bahaar's picture

Source of Indus river is TIBET, not Kashmir.  China has built 'run of river' dams on Indus river in TIBET to generate electricity.  India has built the same' run of river' dams in Kashmir region which is lower reaches of the river.  Run of the river dams do not reduce water supply of a river.  It just uses water force to run turbines.  Pakistan does not object to China building those dams up there.  But objects to India building dams further down.  Go figure.  Also Pakistan's Punjab province gets ample water from Indus river and its tributaries. However  water is denied  to Sindh which is a lower riparian region because Sindhis are Shias and Sindh wants to break away from Pakistan.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 22:55 | 2347682 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Have you considered the evaporation rate of the body of water behind the "run over the river dam"? Compare the two, the natural river to the "dammed river" evap rates....  you would be surprised as to the numbers..... so yes, by holding the water back you are indeed reducing the net flow of water down stream.

Combine that with trend for less seasonal snow pack and you have to beginnings of a water war.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 15:38 | 2347017 jack stephan
jack stephan's picture

Dominic Greene: you should know something about me and the people i work with. We deal with the left and the right, dictators or liberators. If the current president had been more agreeable, I wouldn't be talking to you. So if you decide not to sign, you'll wake up with your balls in your mouth and your willing replacement standing over you... if you doubt that, then shoot me, take that money and have a good night's sleep.

Sun, 04/15/2012 - 19:38 | 2347400 13thWarrior
13thWarrior's picture

World Bank is privatiing water. They will be fighting WB soon.

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