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Guest Post: Paul Ryan's Budget

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics

Paul Ryan's Budget

So Romney has picked Paul Ryan for Vice President; a man with a remarkably similar “deficit-reduction” strategy to that of George Osborne here in the UK, where unemployment and budget deficits have soared, and GDP remains well off its peak.

If Ryan or his Democratic rivals really understood the budget deficit, they would understand that its huge size is a result coming primarily out of a depression brought on by excessive total debt:

As debt soared from the 80s to the 90s, tax revenues soared as the economy boomed on borrowed money. But as the debt continued to grow relative to income, the costs of the debt mountain meant that income that might once have been invested in businesses and consumption went toward debt service instead. And so once we hit the point at which debt repayment exceeded new debt acquisition, we were flung into a depression. This has had a relatively severe impact on growth; since the deleveraging hit in 2008, GDP growth fell considerably from its long-term trend (nominal potential GDP):

So with the private sector (not to mention state and local governments) who acquired so much debt in the boom now deleveraging, Federal revenue has dramatically fallen, producing the huge Federal budget deficits we see today. Of course, Federal spending was on an unsustainable trajectory before that. But without a serious plan to get America out of the deleveraging trap (there are three routes out — liquidation, inflation and debt forgiveness) all talk of reforming entitlements is meaningless.

So, does Ryan’s plan address the problem of excessive debt?

No. Ryan completely misses the point of excessive total debt, and instead paints a portrait of the problem being one of excessive public debt:

Oh no! What a scary chart! But Ryan claims he is going to make public deficits disappear! How?

Ryan intends to cut taxes; reducing corporate taxes from 35% to 25%, and introducing two new income tax brackets; one of 10%, the other of 25%.

But here’s Federal tax revenues compared to the weight of total debt:

To get private debt to a sustainable level via tax cuts, Ryan would have to cut taxes to zero for a very long time (and hope that people use their tax cut to pay down debt instead of spending it at Chipotle and the Apple Store).

The biggest problem with that? Over 75% of Federal spending is mandated by law, and so US public debt — which Ryan believes is the real problem — would soar (as has happened in Britain). Ryan might seem worried about the future possibility of massive public debt (as opposed to the current reality of massive total debt), but his plan could conceivably result in much higher public debt  — after all the OMB and CBO have gotten it all very wrong before, just twelve years ago foreseeing massive tax surpluses of $48 and $87 billion respectively in 2012.

So does he have any real plan to significantly raise revenues?

Ryan intends by 2022 to have to closed enough loopholes to yield an extra $700 billion in revenue every year. That’s a lot of money. So which loopholes does Ryan claim that he will be able to close?

In his entire 98-page manifesto, Ryan doesn’t name any — but he has ruled out taxing capital gains as income, surely the biggest tax loophole of all, and one that has seriously benefited his running mate.

Ryan might talk tough on public deficits, but his own figures show that even if he can raise the revenue he claims to be able to raise (very dubious), the deficits won’t be gone for twenty yearsMeanwhile, he has not even approached the subject of excessive total debt, which is the real problem.

The only policies likely to return the US to strong organic growth are those that would produce some form of debt jubilee. Neither of the major parties has any plan for that.


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Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:43 | 2697084 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Ryan the fraud is perfect for Romney the fraud which are a the perfect couple to run against Obama and Biden the frauds.

USA!  Universal Suckers of America

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:02 | 2697102 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos."


 Funny how people like to fight over who gets to be the next Captain of the Titanic:

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:15 | 2697167 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

all of these guys have magical budgets where they get these revenues from the gods by just saying they will. 


here's a law: if you have no concrete mathematically explicit plan that adds up you are not allowed to propose it. very fucking simple. yet so simple that not one proposal or chart of late would qualify for submission, save for ObamaCare which isn't even that, but simply a tax and ponzi for ins co and gov. insanely unconstitutional bs.


bravo all these shitheads are useless.


PS even if gov budgets were balanced somehow and they will never be, just the student loan bubble is enough to torpedo the nation.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:22 | 2697219 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Are you suggesting that students actually attempt to pay back those loans with interest?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:41 | 2697284 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

i did not suggest any such thing.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:46 | 2697299 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

I would recommend that students (as a united entity) pay back the principle, but not the interest. I would reccomend that they choose to be free, instead of submit to alife of debt enslavement

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:27 | 2697420 JoBob
JoBob's picture

You apparently support getting something for nothing and screwing all the previous borrowers who lived up to their obligations. Some great "engineer" you are!

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:45 | 2697460 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Nice try, but you're still a loser.

I said they should pay it back you fucking imbecile...

And as far as those previous borrowers that you refer to, they all just had their homes repossesed in case you didn't notice...

and judging by your name Jobob, you're no more than an inbred genetic catastrophy

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:07 | 2697492 Michael
Michael's picture

Revenge votes for Obama is the solution. Black balling Dr Ron Paul was not a smart move this time.

No self respecting Ron Paul supporter will vote for Mitt Romney since he is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Rothschild's and Rockefeller banksters just as Obama is.

The Presidency is a wholly owned subsidiary of the international banking cartel, multi national corporations, and Goldman Sachs/JP Morgan.

Many millions of Ron Paul supporters like me will be voting directly for Obama in November in a political strategy so we can get a real Liberty candidate on the ballot in 2016.

If you don't like Obama next year, then impeach him for illegally attacking Libya, gun running fast and furious, and being disqualified for his forged birth certificate.

Fox news is an infomercial for the republicans and the GOP. MSNBC is an infomercial for the democrats, and ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN is left leaning, brainwashing, social engineering scum. Try not to get your news from them.

What's Romney gonna give me? Will he cancel the TSA/government 750 million hollow point bullet order, abolish NDAA and the Patriot act? Then fuck him.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:16 | 2697586 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"Many millions of Ron Paul supporters like me will be voting directly for Obama in November in a political strategy so we can get a real Liberty candidate on the ballot in 2016."

Bullshit I've been supporting RP since b4 mommy started taking you to play soccer.  It's one thing to vote RP on principle. it's another to vote for man dismantling America.  That's your political strategy?  I'm starting to think you're one of the OWS drones.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:24 | 2697595 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I'm a RP supporter. If I can't write him in I am voting for Obama. Obama makes me sick to my stomach but both parties are controlled so Romney or Obama makes no difference. At least enough people can't stand Obama because he is the one currently in offce and his re-election might spur the American people into action. If Romney gets elected then people will wait for another 3.5 years untill they recognize he is no better and this will only prolong the situation. We are out of time. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:43 | 2697619 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

If waiting a little longer were the only difference , that's still ok by me, it's 3.5 more yrs of stacking and prepping.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 17:07 | 2697821 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I'll go along with that.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 20:32 | 2698030 economics9698
economics9698's picture


The budget will get paid for with inflation, taxes, or borrowing.  Ryan is looking at production and making producers produce more.  If more is produced the standard of living does up and people have more things.

Don't get lost in the banking bull shit.  

Study some tax tables and see what happens in the real world.

I guarantee you 100% Ryan’s 10/25 tax rates will bring in more revenue.

100% bet me on it.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 19:21 | 2697983 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I didn't participate in one OWS protest, but name one other group who stood up to the wall street fraud, Ron Paul supporters never protested, so name one. And before you say Tea Party, they protested Obama. They would not exist if mcCain won. And If McCain won, he would have done the same thing as Obama (except kill Osama since he explicitedly said he would ask Pakistan for permsission  to enter their air space and the ISI would have tipped the fucker). Well there would be no obamacare but that's not the reason we are in this mess, it may just speed it up, or maybe not. I don't make predicitions. But, tangent aside, why the hate towards OWS, at least they fucking tried.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 21:02 | 2698060 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I didn't participate in one OWS protest, but name one other group who stood up to the wall street fraud, Ron Paul supporters never protested, so name one. And before you say Tea Party, they protested Obama."

I voted for Paul in the primary and I'm a TP supporter.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 18:27 | 2697922 Inspector Bird
Inspector Bird's picture

Vote for who you want.  But your strategy is flawed.  The #1 goal should be getting Obama OUT.

Seriously - there's something to be said for the fact not much will be left in 4 years regardless of who wins, but Obama is going to employ a scorched earth policy.  There will, literally, be almost nothing left to work with in 4 years.

Romney isn't much better, but at least he recognizes business is important.  It's a subtle differentiation, it amounts to very little in terms of government spending, but the truth is he's more likely to yield a result which will set us up for a good Liberty candidate.  Why?  Because in all honesty the Republicans have sheltered the core of a new party (Ron Paul's supporters like me), and our basic needs are covered more by Republicans than Democrats. 

We share some social beliefs (but not policies) with Democrats.  We share no economic beliefs.  Republicans share very little in the social realm, though Ryan is a small step in the right direction with his views on homosexuality, but slightly more in the economic realm.

The balance between the two parties is not distinct, but I believe that if you focus on getting the economics moving in the right direction the social stuff follows anyway. 


I'm not voting Obama.  Ever.  I don't want to vote Romney, but I fear him less than Obama, and I believe this election is one where a vote of conscience, which I've engaged in virtually every election, will be a dangerous proposition.  Obama must go.  He has to go.  There is no question.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 20:25 | 2698026 pods
pods's picture

Funny but I see these posts every election cycle.  They always say the same thing.  We HAVE to vote the guy out.  

Voting is for your benefit.

It keeps up the illusion that you have any say in what goes on today.

If that illusion is ever destroyed, and the bars become visible, people are shaken.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 20:42 | 2698040 object_orient
object_orient's picture

Let's all work really hard to get Obama out of office. Then in 2016 we'll work really hard to get Romney out of office. Then in 2020....

If a presidential candidate is viable, by default he or she is terrible on everything important to a Ron Paul supporter. Why expend all the effort every four years when it won't make the slightest difference? Voting [in national elections] is stupid.

Sun, 08/12/2012 - 19:14 | 2699502 sharkieboy
sharkieboy's picture

Well is cheap and action speaks louder than words. AS much as i  can remember Obama save GM which Romney would have send to  the dogs or Bain them... as they say. 


Everybody blaming uncertainty but one thing is for certain is we need congress that can function. Obama is far from being perfect and even Romney is a swell guy, but i have not heard anything which  will change anything in  Washington so  far. Just bunch  of talk and plans that will  not make sense. You can  not solved this problem without cutting military in half, raise retirement age to  70 and  deal  with health care and the insane amount they are charging compare to  the rest of the world. Lets get real please.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 18:35 | 2697939 WhyDoesItHurtWh...
WhyDoesItHurtWhen iPee's picture

I was going for this douchbag guy .........

Sun, 08/12/2012 - 14:33 | 2698964 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

I'm glad RP got railroaded out of the GOP. An RP win would have been a devastating blow to the liberty movement. He would have merely become the captain of the Debtanic while it was already underwater and been blamed by imbiciles for sinking it. Now libertarians can continue to say, "See, we told you so. If only you would have elected Ron Paul..." An RP loss is actually a victory, and I believe Dr. Paul knows this which is why he didn't challenge the GOP on all of their shenanigans. It doesn't matter who is the next president or who is in the next Congress. The music stopped in 2008, and now we are all just dancing around with no tune.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 17:49 | 2697881 Landrew
Landrew's picture

Dude, why so harsh? JoBob doesn't have the same interest in education as we do. That said it doesn't mean we shouldn't have an honest debate on spending, funding and even more to the point priority of education. Do we want to be Hati or spend as they do in Germany (Europe) Asia? We can as the 1% would like return our nation to a country of lower intelligent workers digging around the dirt for zero value added higher wage jobs or we can investment even more in education as the Europe/Russia/Asia (really the whole the developed world) and enjoy a return of high wage value added jobs? That is the real question? Should a teacher be paid more than a ball player or a CEO of a bank? I myself not having children in a system any longer still think teachers are under paid. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:03 | 2697493 dog breath
dog breath's picture


Why did I buy a car without waiting for the next junkers for clunkers program?

Why did I pay off my student loan debt when the government will reduce my loan?

Why am I still making payments for my mortgage when the government can restructure it so I pay less principal?

Why am I paying for my medical insurance when Obamacare will kick in?

Why am I working when I can get 99 weeks of unemployment?

Why don't I start a business and if it goes into bankruptcy, the feds will come in and bail me out?

Why don't I buy risky securities and if the bottom falls, the feds will do another TARP and buy my securities?

Why dont' I start a green company that no venture capitalist will touch and ask the White House for a loan so I can milk the money until bankruptcy?

Why am I the idiot who doesn't wait until the feds ride in their white horse and save the day?  Some else will pay for that, not me.



The government is encourging the mentality of not doing the responsible thing under the guise of helping us.  No different than a rich parent always bailing out his spoiled kid.  Time to cut the cord.  Tough love.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:48 | 2697309 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"Ryan the fraud is perfect for Romney"

Come on are smarter than this shit. I know Paul and other than being mostly asleep he's one of us.

Quit being an ass clown and throwing worlds around like fraud without any basis. You embarrass the legitimate movement. Paul is close to the best thing to happen for a vp.

Used to be we called that libel and we shunned it...guess we rot from both ends then.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:54 | 2697325 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

If he is campaigning to end the fed then he is good. If not, he is evil

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:03 | 2697360 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Very good. We care about facts. He voted for,the full audit.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:10 | 2697379 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

ok, where is his stance on giving the power to coin money back to the people?

Does he support allowing the Fed to print itself monopoly money for free, and they charge us interest to use it?

You better come up with the right answers because I'm not going to let you off the hook here

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:31 | 2697427 JoBob
JoBob's picture

Gosh, Daddy, we didn't know you were in charge of letting people off the hook when they have better opinions.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:48 | 2697465 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Look you fucking retard, opinions are opinions, and facts are facts. Catch a clue and go fuck yourself

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:04 | 2697495 neptunium
neptunium's picture

Stop arguing asshats...


Anyway, the delivery of this goon reminds of the 'company' guy in Aliens, every heavily manipulated syllable is unconvincing - as if he's speaking to a bunch of gullable tards, well, he is in fairness - but what you have to master to be a good politician is to lie with conviction - Obama does it well, Tony Blair did it well - this guy is a B-movie actor by comparison but then he was speaking to people who look up to protozoans intellectually.


: ) 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:05 | 2697498 neptunium
neptunium's picture

And I'm not inferring that good-liar = good policies, just that a good acting performance gets, and keeps you elected. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 19:30 | 2697989 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Paul is a public figure so libel laws don't apply to him. It's called Gertz v. Welch (He would have to prove he is not a subjective adjective, fraud, and ironically, prove fraud and malicious behavior. Romney needed Florida to win, he just lost it. Obama wins Florida on basis of Paul's budget plan. He gets PA too because of Paul. But the PA republican party is handing the election to Obama on a stick due to Corbett's words and acctions not to mention the voter ID law in PA and the fact after it passed its sponsorr said "We needed this to pass so Romney can win here." Talk about foot-in-mouth.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 17:20 | 2697827 monad
monad's picture

If actually getting a job and applying their new collegiate talents is impractical in surreal Obamaoland, I suggest that they hit up their loaded, tax exempt cults. Surely the various international cons can perform some domestic charity, or at least bail out their own? Otherwise, fuck 'em all. Their stupidity is no claim on my limited time and resources. Through deception and coersion the government bred these idiots, impeding the competent from maintaining stable, autonomous culture. Life is fatal, you're on your own. Losers.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:55 | 2697330 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

I have another idea;

No more plans that extend beyond the very next fiscal year.  Period.  

No more "here's our plan....we'll borrow a trill this year, because the following year the US will win the lottery.

Screw that...if you don't have a plan to fix something in the short do NOT have a plan.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 18:33 | 2697936 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Ryan has a plan...

>>>but he has ruled out taxing capital gains as income, surely the biggest tax loophole of all, and one that has seriously benefited his running mate<<<

That's the plan.  Protect the wealthy and fuck everybody else.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Sun, 08/12/2012 - 15:06 | 2699014 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

How do you figure this flattrader. Right now, 49% of the country pays zero the "wealthy" pay all the taxes so the broke dicks can suck off the proverbial teet of the system. Let's all share in the sacrifice, flat tax, isn't that what Ron Paul would want? Let it rip, I'd be like a pig in slop if that were to happen. But it won't as the middle/lower classes will bitch and wine if they have to pay anything in taxes.

Yeah, the path we're on is a great one, you can really feel the prosperity can't you...

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 19:32 | 2697990 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

There is a word for your idea: myopic.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:09 | 2697170 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

POTUS is just the gas station attendant

Ben Beranke is the EXXON

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:30 | 2697253 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

All Presidents since Kennedy have been purchased, not elected

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:45 | 2697294 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture

I'm guessing Kennedy is an example of what happens if you refuse to be bought?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:57 | 2697318 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

United States President John F Kennedy was assisinated by the Bankers, because he started printing paper money that was not subject to paying interest to the Bankers. The Bankers immediately regained controllof the printing press and we have been their slaves every since. Revolution required

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:22 | 2697320 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, well at least there's some Pall there 4 everyone now.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:29 | 2697426's picture

All we need now are six pallbearers. Case closed (pun intended).

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:51 | 2697469 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

PALL is the ETF for Palladium. Buy Physical bitchez...

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:56 | 2697478's picture

Lennon scores at the Palladium:

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:11 | 2697179 malikai
malikai's picture

I'm going to write in Bob on the ballot. I'm sure he'll be pres one day.

We'll finally get some slack.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:34 | 2697268 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Bob will end the fed and won't waste our time with all this disinformation and propaganda bullshit

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:57 | 2697132 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Welcome to the 2012, United States Presidential Election Extrvaganza, brought to you by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America and Koch Industries.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:21 | 2697215's picture

Don't forget media and unions. They don't work hard so you have to.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:24 | 2697232 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Some of those Union boys work ten times harder than any non-union man can even comprehend.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:42 | 2697287's picture

If union members work ten times harder than anyone else then why don't they just build factories of their own?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:49 | 2697311 MillionDollarBoner_
MillionDollarBoner_'s picture


The could call it the "Twentieth Century Motor Company"...


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:02 | 2697357 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

And compete with China? China does not have a building dept or planning commission, or building codes or enforcement. They can  live in cardboard boxes in the sewer lines under the city, which allows them to work for seventeen cents an hour. Is that what you want for the rest of the world. Take off your aluminum foil and come out here in the sunlight with the rest of us. You will be safe, we're not going to let any harm come to you

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:15 | 2697384's picture

There are union members currently employed in the US. Somebody has built and is maintaining the private infrastructure which provides a workplace for those union members. If union members work ten times harder than the people who have built and are maintaining those facilities then why can't the union members build facilities which equal or exceed those where they are currently employed?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:29 | 2697424 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

what private infrastructure? Do you mean the one in a parallel universe?

The union built and is maintaining those facilities, like the Golden Gate Bridge for example. Would you drive over that if it was built and maintained by some non-union, non english speaking, non-educated, no documents kind of workers?

 You have to be out of your ever loving fricken mind.

I will let you have the last word, you win. We'll just do away with all the Unions in the world and let a bunch of drug addicts be in charge of the infrastructure, bridges, highways, our electric grid, etc.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:50 | 2697430's picture

Wow, talk about your false dichotomies!


Enjoy the following video in which union members work ten times harder at partying than anyone else:

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:29 | 2697679 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

Is it a coincidence that most of them were black?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:04 | 2697642 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Your example, the Golden Gate Bridge, was built with private funding using local non-union labor and private contractors you moron.  Search it yourself, in this day and age there's no excuse for willfull ignorance.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 19:36 | 2697994 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Harbanger, you win the comeback of the month award. To-fucking-che. WOW!

Sun, 08/12/2012 - 01:42 | 2698358 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

>>>>>> Hiring was handled entirely through the ironworkers' union, local 377 <<<<<

"in this day and age there's no excuse for willfull ignorance"

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:52 | 2697470 Satan
Satan's picture

'cause they would have to hire union workers ...

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 17:32 | 2697864 get your snake oil
get your snake oil's picture

as a masonry foreman of 30 years,with all projects 5 million dollars or more in masonry alone,in at least 8 different states. I can honestly say your full of shit.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:22 | 2697222 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Make the "credit market" pay back the credit market debt, and I'm in !

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:28 | 2697323 Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

Perfectly stated, temporalist.  Just like Paul Ryan on the House floor urging his colleagues to vote for TARP.

"My fellow colleagues, we've heard a lot of non-sense and naysaying this morning, some of it hard to believe, but the pile of bullshit I'm about to deliver, is going to be massive."

BUSTED: Watch Paul Ryan Begging Congress To Vote For The Bailout


Sun, 08/12/2012 - 15:01 | 2699010 cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

Temporalist, I've got a suggestion...Move! You don't like it here, get the F out, there's a place for fags like you, it's called France.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:45 | 2697091 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Paul Ryan != Ron Paul.

The two are VERY different.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:03 | 2697145 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Seven people (at current count) think Ron Paul voted for TARP.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:21 | 2697216 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

....yeah, but they DO know who won American Idol, last year!

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:01 | 2697567 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It'll be nice not have to look at hair plugs next year.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:52 | 2697110 Bob
Bob's picture

Amen.  Thanks for telling it, Aziz. 

The claptrap "serious adult discussions" about debt only preserve the shell game that enriches parasites at the expense of working people. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:43 | 2697239 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Aziz tells half-truths. He is sometimes more troll-like than truth-like

Newly printed money is not "Debt", it is credit. It devalues existing dollars, in a way, a tax. That new money is not spent on the taxpayers. There is no logical reason that we should continue to accept this brainwashing. There is no logical reason that we should play in to their enslavement scam. Stay on the treadmill, you'll get somewhere

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:46 | 2697300 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

All FRNs are debt.  The word "Note" is right in their name.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:19 | 2697401 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

That's like saying that if I discover a new vein of Gold and take the nuggets to be coined, that if I have them print "note" on it, that it becomes a debt coin. How fucking rediculous! 

You are wrong, but keep on spouting it out anyways...

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 14:43 | 2697617 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

If credit is not debt, they why do they call it credit score?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:44 | 2697644 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Credit and debt are two words for the same thing.

The difference is perspective. Like when you leave one country you are emigrating, and when you arrive at a new one you are immigrating. When you are lending you are crediting, and when you are borrowing you are debting. 

Zero Hedge readers, of all people, should understand this.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 18:44 | 2697947 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



When they first started to become popular would credit cards have been accepted so readily if they had been called debt cards?


jus sayin...



Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:05 | 2697366 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Not debt? And you're calling Aziz out? LOL. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:41 | 2697451 engineertheeconomy
engineertheeconomy's picture

Dude, don't be a moron...

If you and I are playing Monopoly together and I'm the Banker and just print myself all the money I want right next to you with a copy machine but don't let you, and I buy up everything on the board, does that make you in debt to me?

See thru the VEIL...

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:39 | 2697539 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

The only veil you're looking through is your rectal cavity.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:24 | 2697674 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

engineer, with your credentials of asshatery you should ballot for Congress. As I can see, you are perfectly qualified for that.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:51 | 2697111 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

Make it bigger! I still dont have sufficiently strong emotional reaction. :3

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:53 | 2697116 monoloco
monoloco's picture

Ryan's a hypocrite who voted for the Iraq war, the prescription drug benefit, the patriot act, and TARP, he was part of the problem, now he's trying to act like he's the solution. He's just another corporately owned, neo-liberal, warmongering, errand boy for the plutocracy.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:28 | 2697247 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

is that a dolphin you're holding? pretty friggin big if it is. "the plutocrat of dolphins" perhaps....

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:52 | 2697553 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

You got it.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:45 | 2697782 Aziz
Aziz's picture

monoloco nailed it.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 20:00 | 2698009 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

You forgot the fact he hasn't left the Beltway since he left college. He's about as much a Wisconsinite(???) as me. Sure he has an office there but never once ran his own business or was a worker in a private business that was small and trying thru hardwork to produce something good and worthwhile. I've done both and I'm only 30, but when I was a kid i wanted to be a soldier or firefighter when I wasn't dreaming of being a baseball or basketball star (except I'm 5'8/5'9) so my hoop dreams fell short lol plus I'm white, so I cant jump high. Point is Paul's dreams came true: to do nothing and it's worked (something he hasn't ever done); he has never produced a single thing other than bureaucrats with the flick of his pen, which coincidentally is the hardest work he has done in the last 14 years.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:53 | 2697118 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

I believe Ryan has acknowledged that his plan would take a long time to bring the deficit down. Growth is also a key driving force in anyones plan and that is where most disputes arise. At the very least give the guy credit for attempting to put forth a plan.

I look at it this way is it easier to change the president or half of the 535 representatives in the House and Senate. Obama hasn't achieved any results in bringing the spending under control because he would tell you no one will work with him even though in the majority of his term the democrats have had full control. We clearly have a problem that needs to be solved or we go the way of Greece and so many others.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:06 | 2697152 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

"I believe Ryan has acknowledged that his plan would take a long time to bring the deficit down. Growth is also a key driving force in anyones plan and that is where most disputes arise. At the very least give the guy credit for attempting to put forth a plan."


It's called can kicking. Everyone in DC knows that budgets can and will change by the time it effectively lowers the deficit. Now one could argue Romney/Ryan would spend less than Obama and have a fair point.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:14 | 2697191 blobbus
blobbus's picture

It's called can kicking. Everyone in DC knows that budgets can and will change by the time it effectively lowers the deficit. Now one could argue Romney/Ryan would spend less than Obama and have a fair point.

Right. Name one president's budget plan (7 year typically, cause you gotta re-elect me too!!!) that was seen through %100 to term. None. 75%? nope. Not even %50. Once elected all bets are off.

One could argue Clinton did it, but he got lucky because of the booming tech economy (hence high tax revenues). And no, Al Gore did is not responsible for it either.

Technically Bush II did "better" but two wars were kept "off budget" to make it look so.

Is all BS.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:55 | 2697332 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Agree. One point on Bush keeping "the wars off budget" though. I read that and get the impression people think they were not counted in the deficit numbers we saw during those years. Not true. However, when he put out his 10 year projections he never included them because he had no idea how long the wars would last or what they would cost.(looks like forever)However, when you see that the FY 2007 deficit was $162 billion that INCLUDED the costs of the wars. As did all the other deficit numbers from his 8 years in office. Same with Obama. Somehow Democrats took to stressing this issue as an example of phony budgeting as if it was more important than all the other phony budgeting that goes on with other goverment spending.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:59 | 2697346 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



It's one hell of a can, kicked by one hell of a foot, kicked down one hell of a road.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:09 | 2697377 blobbus
blobbus's picture

Yes. Point well taken.


Lets not forget that budgets also factor in some "rosy" (even OMB sactioned) economic growth and resulting tax revenues, which almost never materialize. 


Much like the rosy outcomes ("we will be greeted as liberators") predicted when starting wars. lol.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 17:13 | 2697829 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Sooner or later some people are going to stub and then break, toes when the can becomes a few tril heavier without the Fed Charter in 2013.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:48 | 2697308 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Actually I think he is trying to find a consensus so it would pass both houses and placed into law. Only recently have we found that you really don't need Congress because you can just issue unconstitutional executive orders.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:05 | 2697368 blobbus
blobbus's picture

Only recently have we found that you really don't need Congress because you can just issue unconstitutional executive orders.

Not discovered just recently, it has been going on for ages. People finally woke up when Bush II issued so many exective orders. I believe Bush holds the record (Obama is not even close).

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:34 | 2697433 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

The hardest part in making law is finding agreement amongst the parties and it should not be about issuing decrees on major issues. I understand Bush I, Bush II, Clinton and others used executive orders that was not my major point.


I found this interesting ... 

Total executive orders by president Obama 132, GW Bush 291, Clinton 364, HW Bush 166,  Reagan 381,  etc.

Remember Obama is still only halfway through his term.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 15:45 | 2697700 koncaswatch
koncaswatch's picture

I believe the above post emphasis was unconstitutional EOs; the subject matter being the point.

Also, as far as I'm aware the record holder for average EOs issued per year of presidency is FDR at 288.8 per year average for a total of 3466 throughout the presidency. Obama is averaging 34.4, Bush II was 36.2, Clinton 45.3 and so on.

It's the subject of the EOs that matter not the count. IMHO, Obama has a considerable amount of rights infringing EOs to be proud of.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:06 | 2697159 blobbus
blobbus's picture

 Obama hasn't achieved any results in bringing the spending under control because he would tell you no one will work with him even though in the majority of his term the democrats have had full control.


Um, no. With the threat of filibuster in the Senate (the presidents whole term), NO ONE has had control (except to bring things to a standstill).

Not a defender of Obama, just sayin'


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:20 | 2697213 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Senators are too damned fat & lazy to filibuster anything anymore and they all know it...they didn't have a problem passing "shovel ready" and ObamaCare did they?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:31 | 2697257 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i can't think of any fat Senators. true of Congressmen/women as well. Why is that?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:59 | 2697349 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Feinsteins ass has its own gravitational pull...for one ;-)

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 19:11 | 2697974 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Over the years here at Zero Hedge I've come to the conclusion that your cranial cavity is a black hole.  Knowledge may go in from time to time, but it sure as hell never comes out.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 21:10 | 2697980 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Savin it for you Rocky.



What's your solution?...any ideas on tax reform or are we locked into a "progessive" tax code (manipulated by the elites and politicians yearly) forever?

I'm all ears critter...out with chose this fight lets do it.


So, you just show your teeth and scamper off for another garbage can?

Unlike your opinion of me, I held you in higher regard, until tonight.

Sun, 08/12/2012 - 16:05 | 2699137 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'm all for legitimate criticism, but low and valueless remarks don't get the job done.  I was just dipping to your level.  I don't like it down there so I'll not descend again.  Sorry to have stirred you up.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:57 | 2697340 blobbus
blobbus's picture

Those are likely the only TWO Cases of compromise by the two parties in this president's term.

Shovel-ready was passed cause it was easy for politicians score points with constituents.

At least there was a healthy debate and compromised about ObamaCare.

TARP and related programs were also passed by both parties, not because of compromise, but because of threats (wether real or implied) from bankers and wall street.


Once Obama's honeymoon was over (first year of term) all compromise ended (as is so often the case with any president).

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 16:12 | 2697739 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"least there was a healthy debate and compromised about ObamaCare."

That's outright false, but I'll give you a chance to defend youself if you want to be taken seriously. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 19:07 | 2697971 nmewn
nmewn's picture is a lie.

Reid openly bribed Senator Nelson for the 60th vote to block any possibility of a filibuster and Nelson is a democrat. I don't recall any republican senator voting for ObamaCare.

There was no compromise then and there won't be any going forward with these fucking snakes.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 13:58 | 2697563 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Budget issues (spending) only require 51 votes not 60 in the Senate to move forward.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:30 | 2697256 Van Halen
Van Halen's picture

blobbus, I respectfully disagree with the assessment as I maintain that Obama is not destroying this country by accident, but on purpose. He hates us all and the people behind him have decided that it's time for America to go.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:49 | 2697313 blobbus
blobbus's picture

He hates us all and the people behind him have decided that it's time for America to go.

Wow. I dont know which is scariest. Washington politicians or their constituents with their twisted-perceptions/baseless-factless-arguments-and-knee-jerk-conclusions-based-on-30-second-out-of-context-soundbites/170-char-tweets/and-photochopped-images-distributed-on-facebook.

If not already, critical thinking is dead-and-gone in this society.

We are screwed.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 20:07 | 2698015 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Defending Obama in any form is treason on this board for some of the patriotic Americans, aka our very own version of the taliban, who have taken over this site and scream and whine in big capial letters. It does not matter if it is true. Some on this board have no interest in truth, just power, for them and their corporate masters, aka the Tea Party, the ultimate corporate creation after Justin timberlake and kelly Clarkson. yes, I actually talk to women, so i know this stuff.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:51 | 2697319 monoloco
monoloco's picture

If Ryan really was interested in cutting the deficit, he wouldn't have voted for the Iraq war, the patriot act, the prescription drug benefit, the GM bailout, and TARP. He's a fraud and a phony conservative.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:40 | 2697445 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

He might be a phony conservative. Obama was for all of the above spending wise and except for the war in Iraq he is no different. No one has called him a fraud.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:42 | 2697455 JoBob
JoBob's picture

A promise by Congress to do something in the future is totally worthless. All it means is that they did not make a decision now and can revisit the subject later.  Even if they do make a decision, they can reverse it before the next election cycle... or whenever consequences begin to pinch someone.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:58 | 2697121 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Who cares what Ryan thinks or says?  Roosevelt's VP said it best when he said the VP job is "not worth a bucket of warm piss."  Combine that with the fact that even the prez tows the party line and you get back to the total ownership of both major parties by the same (plus or minus 5%) corporate oligarchy.  So who gives a rat's ass about who is the dem or rep prez candidate or, even less, who their choice for alternate shill is?  This is all just window dressing for morons who haven't yet woken up to the total farce, a billion dollar show to provide the illusion of real choice.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:00 | 2697137 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Bush II's VP begs to differ.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:09 | 2697163 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Yeah, I'll give you that one.  If you've got an intellectually lazy prez (Bush wasn't a moron IQ-wise believe it or not) and a Darth Vader type as VP, the VP can have major influence.  But the main point is, who cares anyway since they are never working in my interest except by fortunate accident.  And that's both dems and reps.  So this political campaign and election show is much ado about nothing.  Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:33 | 2697265 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture hmmm. trying to imagine Paul Ryan filling those shoes. Hmmmm. nope!

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:39 | 2697279 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

No disagreement from me.

I do think Cheney was a member of the deep power structure who by necessity had to assume a more visible role.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:08 | 2697164 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Yeah, Cheney mattered in the sense that he ran the country while W pretended to be President, but the conclusion he has is undeniable. The elections are just for show to pretend our government still functions for the people of this country.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:15 | 2697195 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

The only choice the little folks are ever going to get is "Paper or Plastic?"  And even that one is going to go away! 

Don't the bribery statutes specifically exclude campaign contributions? 

It isn't the government that sucks,  it's it's owners that suck!

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:24 | 2697229's picture

I always ask for double bagging in paper and plastic.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:56 | 2697123 Predator
Predator's picture

Sheeple love charts with red and green colors.  Yeah, that's the solution.  See?  He published it so it must be right.  A career politician bought and paid for by the plutocrats.  R&R = Remove & Replace.  Maybe the reality check of the upcoming thumping will force the idiots back to compromise and Simpson/Bowles?  JK.  We're doomed. 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:56 | 2697126 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

Neither party will address the real problems until it is too late.  This has been proven time and time again.  The MSM is against addressing the real problems as they are financed by the same sources as those that finance the two main political parties.  Independant media is the only place to get real news.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:58 | 2697136 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture



"Neither party will address the real problems until it is too late."

Hate to break it to you, but it's already too late...


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:08 | 2697160 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

You may be right, the direction is definitely circling the drain, but I'll go down fighting.  The more it's discussed, the harder it is for the other side to bs their way out of it.  The more it's posted on sites like this, the more it is read, even by the clowns that are paid to click the red thingamajigy.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:09 | 2697169 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I'm going down buying physical assets.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:25 | 2697234
Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:19 | 2697400 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Here are some highly appropriate graphics I've found around the web relating to the farce of a representative democracy and economic policy we have in the US.  Download, print and display the "I Vomited" (instead of "I Voted") sticker on election farce day this November:

Double click on the image you want, hover mouse cursor over image, go to "file" dropdown menu, click "download" to get full res image.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 10:56 | 2697127 Rainman
Rainman's picture

All the muppets still want their cheese, so give it to them good and hard. We all know by now that collapse and reset is the only solution.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:04 | 2697148 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes, and the corporations still want their welfare too (especially the industrial military corporations). 


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:23 | 2697223 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

Laws, thats the one thing that never gets mentioned  'corporate welfare'. 

Amazing the b/s spewed  how someone bought a house they couldn't afford without the flip side being mentioned how those same folks pulled the wool over some multi billion $ bank's eyes.  Pffftt.  What ever happened to hundreds of years worth of lending standards?  How many mortgage brokers want to admit that they were paid a greater commission on loans that were guaranteed to fail?  It isn't red vs. blue, it's them vs you sheeple.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:01 | 2697135 carlnpa
carlnpa's picture

Reduce earned income taxes (including social security).

Raise individual capital gains taxes (above say $10,000 dividends/interest and 500K lived in home).

Raise corporate taxes to 1913 levels.

Raise import duties to 1913 levels. 

End fractional reserve banking.

End the FED role in money creation (we don't need a middleman to create money as debt to the Federal Reserve Banks).

Tax the crap out of large inheritances to end the generational oligarchy we have created (that our Constitutional founding fathers forsaw and tried to limit).

Maybe the only way out of this mess without a reset/revolution.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:34 | 2697267 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Lots of bloggers have shown us variations of this but I saw this on Mish's site yesterday.



Sorry about yelling like that.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:21 | 2697405 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

+1, I like it when you yell.

Default bitchez...

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:28 | 2697421 Bob
Bob's picture

Oh, you can pay it back if you really want to . . . you just have to want it bad enough.

Michael Hudson, The Road to Debt Deflation, Debt Peonage, and Neofeudalism

The better question, imo, is WTF are we thinking?


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 17:15 | 2697832 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

The more you stomp large inherantences the easier it is to discover the rich died broke while the cousins, sons, daughters etc suddenly moved up and out of the trailer park that they have endured for years.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:03 | 2697138 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ryan's voting record is very much about the socialization of PRIVATE losses.  no surprise this makes some people very happy.  How about forcing the owners and management to pay off the creditors the next time they run a company into the fucking ground?  Gee what a novel concept, with all the fucking bailouts (and unfunded wars) we have had is it really any surprise that public debt is high?  Most of that debt used to be private.  Bloody sheep.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:28 | 2697246 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

Laws, check the carry back/forward provisions for acquiring firms.   Incentives to run  companies into the ground. 

If my spending is your income, well if I have no money Mr Ryan where the hell is yours going to come from? 

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:44 | 2697291 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I have been running a business for quite a while.  "Back/foward carry provisions" is all paper-pushing bullshit, meaningless.  If you point is to "starve the beast", I agree.  But for now, the "beast" has a significant Army, for now...

At the end of the day, real shit has to really get done and if the paper you are giving me in exchange for provideing a real good or real service isn't worth shit, I will stop accepting it, period.

FYI, financial "services" is simply code for stealing wealth.  Atlas continues to shrug, but this points out why it is so important to insure that your "money" supply must be such that it's use prevents a realitive few from manipulating its value.  Fiat is fiat, digital or otherwise.  Fiat, without oversight (something Ryan has voted against constantly) is the most dangerous of all.


Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:54 | 2697327 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

The back/forward is about buying your competitions losses so as to get a refund of your past taxes and a credit against your future taxes all the while building your own monopoly position.  Que guiness commercial  "Brilliant".

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:59 | 2697343 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I know.  As I said, paper-pushing bullshit.  Has nothing to do with delivering real innovation or real service.  Which is all that matters at the end of the day.  Can you say capital and resource mis-allocation and mal-investment?

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 12:30 | 2697428 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

Exactly, capital flowing into non producing, fictional bull shit while the real economy continues to be starved of it. 

What do we get from either side of the ailse?  More bull shit!  Gay marriage, abortion et. all crap from both sides.  Divide and conquer.  It's all designed to force people to choose sides. 

Edward Bernays: if you can influence peoples emotions, you need not bother with their intellect as the intellect is subservient to the emotions.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:00 | 2697139 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

The real 1% has to do with intellectual common sense, and simply put, we (ZH'ers) get it. The 99% don't.


The fact this "budget" is even debated in any way without the word "lunacy" coming up just shows how out of touch people are.



Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:22 | 2697221 malikai
malikai's picture

I think you need to check the basement for your son. I think he's missing.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:38 | 2697278 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Thank you for your concern. As I told @Yen Cross last night (hipster Twitter slang for the kids), his Level 3 uncle just got paroled and took him camping this weekend.


The one place you won't find him is the new website that is almost completed, (of course I had to plug my website)...



Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:35 | 2697271 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

For a gal who raised such a "lost child" you sure nail the truth to a cross.

Sat, 08/11/2012 - 11:42 | 2697286 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

ROFL!!! +1

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!