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Guest Post: The Perils Of Underestimating Complexity And Mispricing Risk

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Keith Fitz-Gerald of Peak Prosperity,

"If you’re rich you get a bailout. If you’re poor you get a handout. And if you’re middle class you get left out." That's not a sustainable way to run the system, exclaims investment strategist Keith Fitz-Gerald.

A cancer at the core of our current economy is the magical thinking, "no pain, all gain" philosophy, pursued by those running it. They are doing all they can to remove the consequences of failure from the system -- blind to failure's essential 'waste-clearing' function in a healthy free market.

Without the discipline of Darwinism, the individual actors in the system make all sorts of malinvestments that would never make sense in an efficient marketplace. But since the losses from these inane pursuits are socialized, there's no incentive to stop making them. At least, up until the point where the class whose back is burdened with paying for the socialized messes finally breaks.

This is the thing: let some of these things fail because when failure occurs you have an asset redistribution. The faulty assets are, in fact, bled out of the system. The quality assets are assumed by responsible parties. That is the law of capitalism. That’s the way it works.

 

So if we think back to the credit crisis and we think back to what happened in 2007 – 2008 they went screaming and yelling to congress, "Oh my goodness, we’re going to have to do this or the sky’s going to fall!" Well, the sky fell anyway. They pumped $700 billion into this, then a couple $ Trillion. Well, if the government multiplier that all these conventional economists talk about actually worked our economy should be screaming along at six or eight percent right now, but it's not.

 

And the reason it's not is because it's a complex system and despite all the pushing and pulling they’ve done on one end, they didn’t understand that all these other things would happen at the other end. Too big to fail? It's not too big to fail; it's too big to survive.

 

We have monopoly laws that we should have been using along the way but our regulators were asleep at the switch. They’re out manned, outdone, outclassed, at every turn of the road. Wall Street does not want to do anything that remotely resembles reigning itself in and it has no incentive to do so.

 

It sure as hell is not the free market that everybody likes to think it is. And that, to me, is extremely disturbing because they have removed the hand of risk from the marketplace and these businesses now have every incentive to screw up because they know that a) they won’t be held accountable for it and b) they’re going to get bailed out.

 

They have put so much debt onto this that our unborn great, great, great, great, great, grandchildren could not possibly pay this off. The only way they’re going to get out of this is to deleverage it and remove it from the system.

As an expert on Japan with deep personal ties there as well, Keith and Chris also discuss why that country is a great "black swan" candidate for the back half of 2012.

Click the play button below to listen to Chris' interview with Keith Fitz-Gerald (44m:22s):

 

Or click here to read the transcript

 

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Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:52 | 2737642 kito
kito's picture

i will be posting this periodically leading up to elections....its that important

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaKlE-KQ_FU&feature=player_embedded#!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:10 | 2737645 Michael
Michael's picture

We could have more prosperity even if a loaf of bread cost ten cents under a gold standard.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:04 | 2737726 Captain Kurtz
Captain Kurtz's picture

There can be inflation under the gold standard also.  Remember its a standard and ultimately there is a peg or ratio to determine price in dollars.  Additionally fractional reserve lending can stil exist under a gold standard.  It's quite the non sequitor distraction if you ask me.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:16 | 2737782 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

That's why a rigged standard is not the answer either. Gold should be used as money, and instead of fiat dollars in our pockets, we would have warehouse receipts, which are of course 100% reserved (not fractional).  You could still use plastic too, but all the digits would represent a physical gold deposit somewhere.  In a free society, there would be all kinds of choices.  You could choose a bank that lends out your gold for higher interest, or you could choose banks that just keep it safe for you.  It would be up to the consumer to decide what is best, not the government.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:03 | 2737949 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

X

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 04:34 | 2738133 Hober Mallow
Hober Mallow's picture

These guys speak like super-sales assholes

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:45 | 2738239 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

ILLUSION OF CHOICE - OBAMA VS ROMNEY - DEMOCRATS VS REPUBLICANS

Really great youtube video........ thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaKlE-KQ_FU&feature=player_embedded#!

Sadly I see only 1,064 views. This video needs to be seen by millions! Judge Napolitano nails the "What ifs"

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:34 | 2738062 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

As long as we are living in fairy tale land...   Why don't we just use fiat money and set a strict limit of dollars per capita?  & make the crime of printing money punishable by death and torture...  & while we're at it, why not just abolish the debt based monetary system?  As well as ALL centralized authority?  LOL cus there are too many muppets.

Super easy.  Then we don't need the Gold all the Illuminati already own... and we don't have to worry about the death of an economy by means of wage stagflation and currency hyperinflation.  Simple brAH.

 

BTW everyone already knows risk is mispriced.  Remember CDOs, CDSs, NINA LOANs?  & in future past tense.  Will you remember Government Bonds being senior risk (secure risk) assets?  LOL!  T-minus 10 to Derivitives Thermo-nuclear destruction of the world. 

 

& btw anyone noticing that the U.S. nuclear regulatory agencies are closing nuke plants when the come up for review?  LOL wah teh fuhk brew?  Is someone planning for total collapse besides me?  XD

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:56 | 2738311 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 ...That's why a rigged standard is not the answer either. Gold should be used as money, and instead of fiat dollars in our pockets, we would have warehouse receipts, which are of course 100% reserved (not fractional).  You could still use plastic too, but all the digits would represent a physical gold deposit somewhere.  In a free society, there would be all kinds of choices.

Exactly. Who's to say fractional reserve banking is wrong... as long as everyone knows the score, and banks are not issuing legal tender, but their own, discountable currencies, that aren't getting the implicit subsidy of government deposit insurance? Without that subsidy, risk-averse lenders would only lend to banks that kept 100% reserves, thus pushing up the rates fractional reserve lenders would have to pay to less risk-averse depositors who would know there was a chance they'd lose some or all of their money if the market turned against their bank.

Interestingly, even before the Fed, the US government frequently allowed banks to suspend exchanging their notes for specie (while being able to demand specie from the debtors) during banking crises - so the current pro-bankster attitude by our elected 'representatives' is nothing new.

As long as the bulk of the electorate are cluelss on this subject, nothing will change. It's just too enabling of wealth extraction by our elites for them to forego it voluntarily.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:14 | 2738334 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

Big Jim speaks Big Truth.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:39 | 2737789 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I hate to say it, but there's nothing, "that important" in the universe, except, um, well.......maybe the need to find an open stall when you've got a bad case of explosive diarrhea.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:54 | 2737943 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

Don't forget your family, friends and your wife and kids. For everything else there's a bottle of merlot.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:04 | 2737951 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Or at least a good doobie.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 04:13 | 2738122 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

demons have the best weed!

that looks like an intergalactic ballistic bomber, BiCheZ!

who the fuk didn't ante this time?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:32 | 2738081 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

I'll settle for the boxed variety until and unless frns are replaced with dollars.

Good point about depositing your gold in trust with a reputable institution. On deposit is in "trust" while available to be lent out would be equivalent to owning stock in the institution. In other words, segregated vs. non-segregated accounts. With the sorry state of affairs, i.e. non prosecuted thefts of depositor's assets, seems a return to old fashioned virtuous conduct on the part of individuals should be making a comeback and would hopefully put a well needed end to the too big to do right institutions and their criminal leaderships. Lying, cheating, contributing and printing their way out of hypothecated madness will continue to be the chosen solution for the foreseeable future though as long as people continue to believe the frn=dollar paradigm.

One asset I find particularly interesting in the US are deeded mineral rights with proven reserves.  I heard there are liabilities to owning them, but I can’t figure out what they would be.

   

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 04:59 | 2738139 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

well, what are lawyers for?

unaccustomed as i am to being asked for legal advice when i'm not in jail :> i have no fuking idea!  that is my legal knowledge of mineral rights

but maybe like all rights which have  been bifurcated from the land they hafta be enforced

so maybe it's some big goobermint piece and you know the senator and have a judge in every county, just in case?  no problemo

but if there is a young family living there and yer "deed" is from the 5th century BC and written in greek, maybe not, especially since they just put in a new well and are raising organic chronic on the 7500 acres

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:18 | 2738836 Boxed Merlot
Boxed Merlot's picture

yer "deed" is from the 5th century BC and written in...

 

Joseph Smith's golden tablet "language".  I find it quite amusing that mormon "antiquities" predate american indigenous people's claim to the land given the water craft walk across the pond by Joe's forefathers.

 

Thanks for the laugh about legal advise outside the confines of jail.  Who would ask such mundain things unless one were being detained?  Or un(der)-employed with nothing better to do?

 

The best to you and yours, regardless of the future.

Now, where's that box and my bottle of water?

 

 

 

 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 17:57 | 2737644 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

"They have put so much debt onto this that our unborn great, great, great, great, great, grandchildren could not possibly pay this off."

 

That is simply not enough, public debt is one thing, but with persistance, we can also enslave them to private/government debt as well.  Student loans, car financing, mortgages???? The possibilities are endless.

EAT THE YOUNG.  Let's double tripple or even quadrouple dip into their capital pool.

These future rent payers have to pay for the privledge of being in my world.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:02 | 2737654 Wynn
Wynn's picture

"The rich are the scum of the earth in every country". - G. K. Chesterton, (1914)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:22 | 2737670 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Rich is a relative term, and countries are for little people. We live in a global economy now.  Baseless class warfare.

 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:11 | 2737792 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Unless of course you've just won the $300+ Million Powerball, and then everyone else is the scum of the earth.

Perceptions do change when your bank account is full of wads of cash.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:49 | 2737897 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

I remember when I had a stuffed bank account, not much has really changed except the people that enjoy my company though.  Imagine that.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:05 | 2738057 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

For 'Americans', everything is situational. It is all a matter of being on the wrong/right side of the fence.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 03:24 | 2738105 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

For AnAnonymousitizens, everything is situational. It is all a matter of crapping on the left/right side of the road.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:43 | 2738197 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Situational awareness to Chinese Shitizinsim Citizens: Watch your back lest you be run over by a magic time-traveling rickshaw whilst you're pooping on the roadside..

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:41 | 2737819 Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture

A new report flags 26 companies that paid less in taxes last year than they paid their CEOs, ending up with little or no tax bill on an average $1 billion in revenue. Here's how they pulled it off.

How did they pull this off? Mainly by using loopholes such as offshore tax havens to reduce Uncle Sam's take, while handing out executive perks along with astronomical pay and generous stock-options grants.

On average, the 26 companies had more than $1 billion in U.S. pre-tax income, yet they still got tax benefits -- or refunds -- that averaged $163 million, concludes the study, "The CEO Hands in Uncle Sam's Pockets," from the Institute for Policy Studies. The tax breaks helped CEOs hit profitability targets, one reason CEO pay continues to rise.

"We're being fed this image that America is broke, and we have no choice but to slash spending," says Sarah Anderson, a co-author of the study. "We are actually quite a rich country, but so much of our wealth is diverted into the pockets of top executives."

http://money.msn.com/investing/26-ceos-paid-more-than-uncle-sam

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:09 | 2738019 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

Pure hokum.  Do CEO's often make too much?  Yes.  Does their compensation make any measurable impact on shareholders or the economy?  No.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:41 | 2738294 BigJim
BigJim's picture

More to the point, what was the tax rate on the CEO?

Typically, higher-income earners pay higher taxes that corporations, so if you're a 'tax-is-good!' kinda person, you want individuals working for corporations to earn more than the corporations, because in aggregate they'll pay more tax.

This whole 'corporate tax is too low' bsuiness is bullshit. Corporations don't pay tax - people do. Think this is wrong? Then consider:

Let's say corporation 'A' has yearly profits of $1 Billion, but has 1 million shareholders. That means, before tax, they'd be getting on average $1000 each.

Now, let's say, corporation 'B' has ernings of only $10 Million... but has 2 shareholders... ie, before tax, they'd be getting on average $5 million each.

Still think coporation 'A' should be taxed higher? 

Tax people, not companies. Companies are just collections of people.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 10:52 | 2738459 odatruf
odatruf's picture

I up arrowed you because I agree. Anyone who thinks about it for a second should, too.

The only reason not to set corporate rates to zero is to retain some leverage in case there is an economic activity that is right on the bubble as far as being worth it for a company to make, but which has positive social value. In that case, a tax credit for doing it provides leverage and the push for the company to make the activity worthwhile.  This incentivizing is vastly better than a mandate on the company and I would much prefer that private entities do these things then having the government doing it directly.

The trouble would be in keeping the number of activities that deserve any incentive very low.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:41 | 2738295 moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

right q wrong answer. some things are further reaching in significance than the $ figure of individual compensation- importance is both cumulative and social

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:47 | 2738299 moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

"To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it." G. K. Chesterton

"I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean." G. K. Chesterton

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:14 | 2737665 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Darwinism is no longer allowed.  Though the political left in the US ridicules Christians mercilessly and considers Darwin to be scientific fact they fear Darwinian theory more than anything else in life.

It is to be believed in but never, ever actually applied because that is mean.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:39 | 2737692 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

What are you trying to say?  I can't help but think you tried to rub off your assanine theories on me. Your post doesn't quite help me explain observable phenomenon.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:40 | 2737695 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

That's silly and shallow interpretation of Darwin's theory. Natural selection means only that those who survive survive. It doesn't state how. Its up to us if we attempt to survive as wise, cooperative and compassionate specie or a bunch of greedy, competitive, violent brutes. Former option is IMO our path to sustainable future while latter is just a wet dream of some heavily traumatized psychopaths in upper echelons.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:05 | 2737730 Kimo
Kimo's picture

"It doesn't state how."   er, would that be adaptation? 

How about a job with the Treasury?

http://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/324120300

 

 

 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:17 | 2737742 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

I concur, but then again adaptation is still quite broad term. It doesnt state proper way to adapt, as some people would like to imply when imposing ideas of competition and economic violence.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:47 | 2737698 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I seriously doubt many Christians, let alone most free market cheerleaders or liberals have actually read Origin of Species and instead have used this misquoted phrase to support their own greed, hatred and their own inate assholiness. You can bet filling the empty heads of prison guards at concentration camps with "survival of the fittest" ideals helps them to beat and torture those they view as less fit.

The ironic thing is so-called Christian businessmen have no problem using the misunderstood "survival of the fittest" myth when applied to business. They are quite happy to throw out the whole humble, forgiving Christian philosophy when it comes to money, business or screwing over people they dislike. So take your moral holier than thou attitude somewhere else where the crowd is less intelligent.

This whole survival of the fittest mindset is useful for the owners of the sheep. It keeps the the sheep viewing their owners as obviously more fit, and therfore superioir, while the sheep fight each other over the table scraps. However, let's not forget the church's role in teaching that whole Divine Right of Kings mentality that did the same thing to keep the sheep in line.

Always remember, Christianity is a degrading slave religion. That's why the owners love it. It keeps the sheep in their place.

 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:57 | 2737716 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

Christian businessman is prime example of oxymoron.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:29 | 2737812 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Mitt Romney is a devout Christian businessman.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:37 | 2737818 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

And, Barack Hussien is a devout Marxist Muslim.

 

But, what's that got to do with Ben Shalom being the devout ChairSatan?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:42 | 2737826 knukles
knukles's picture

"Remember....Christianity is a degrading slave religion"

Unlike Islam wherein a woman's place is as chattel.

 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:54 | 2737838 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Also true of Christianity for most of its history.   The next President of the United States belongs to a Christian sect that until a few generations ago openly practiced bigamy.   Just a few hundred years ago, Christians burned women at the stake in America.

Even today, there are no women Priests in Catholicism because they are not worthy of direct communication with God.

 

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:12 | 2737862 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

What's wrong with voluntary polygamy?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:51 | 2738244 11b40
11b40's picture

Give it try. You will find out.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:48 | 2737865 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Also true of today's Republican Party and their War on Women, denying them their free contraceptives. Gosh darn those Medieval brutes and their fuedal ways.

So, what would you rather be, a Mormon with the possibility of plural wives, or a faggety assed atheist marxist getting your ass fist pumped by Ben Hussien Shalom Obama?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:20 | 2737914 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Neither.  And I am not either.  But which are you?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:46 | 2737935 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Wow, what a come back. Maybe we could bring back the sitcom Happy Day's and you could play the part of Potsie.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:35 | 2737965 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Are you claiming the high ground now?  Ha.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:57 | 2737842 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"And, Barack Hussien is a devout Marxist Muslim."

I see we enjoy Rush and Hannity.  Carry on.

P.S.  Obama is a complete tool, and it is not necessary to make shit up in order to think so.  But for those with small minds.....

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:33 | 2737857 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Oh yeah that's what I hear everyday when I listen to Rush and Hannity. Back to your douchebag ways I see. I guess anyone that doesn't agree with you has a "small mind". As if you're gonna crush my feelings with that little ditty.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:22 | 2737917 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, anyone who says what you say has a small mind.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:59 | 2737947 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Why don't you finally go eat Rand and come back and brag how you got stanky fingers and pussy breath. And, to prove it, you should post pictures of yourself smiling with her pubes hanging from your teeth.

Of course, since she's been dead since the early eighties you shouldn't mind that her pussy is all dried up like your pathetic little life.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:38 | 2737966 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You have issues.   But I did laugh.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:24 | 2738223 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

"Barack Hussien is a devout Marxist Muslim"

So when Israel gives the orders to start the next, kill some more muslim war (iran) for us. Our devout Marxist Muslim will fake them out and use the usa military to attack Israel to stop the Palestinian holocaust?

Can I use that word "holocaust" or did the TPTB copyright it for 40's ethnic cleansing only? Laws against "denying the holocaust happened? What type of control ideology is that?

How come this special class of victim gets a law? Are their laws against "speaking about the Palestinian holocaust" that has been happening since the 40's? Must be because it still is going on since the world lets the oppressor

Barack Hussien is a devout Marxist Muslim, Zionist puppet (employee)just like every one of our bullshit leaders since Kennedy.


Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:58 | 2738252 11b40
11b40's picture

Rush, Hannity, and virtually all other right wing radio hosts are owned by Clear Channel.

Clear Channel is owned by......Bain Capital.

Enjoy your brainwashing sessions.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:19 | 2738499 jelyfish
jelyfish's picture

lol whaaa.. I did not know that.  Not really surprised, but a direct connection... Talk about propaganda

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:27 | 2738511 DosZap
DosZap's picture

11b40

Hate to pop your bubble but,

 

Just because you work for a particular OWNER, does not mean your speech is dictated by them.

Mine never was, and I was an employee.

And I guarantee you Rush Limbaugh has enough money, that he can afford to fund himself if he were to be told what HE could say.

His Ego would never allow it, going from a 13,000 year announcer to a multi,multi millionaire has afforded him a rare luxury.

Once your net worth surpasses 100 million bucks, you  are all but untouchable in our system.And he passed that goal a long time ago.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 17:16 | 2739100 11b40
11b40's picture

Good luck trying to pop my bubble(s).  Pretty funny.  Stick your head up your ass if you like, but the golden rule is same as it ever was....the man with the gold makes the rules.

Rush may be a demi-god to the dim-wits who slober over his hate-filled diatribes, and fall for the paid shills who call in to his "entertainment" shows, but even with his $400million contract, he is in no way capable of standing up to Clear Channel if they were decide his time as a useful idiot was up.

And it is not just Rush.  It's a litany of other right-wing propagandists all around the country.  The medium is the message, and Clear channel owns the medium.

http://www.infowars.com/bain-capital-owns-clear-channel-romney-supported-by-talk-show-sphere/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Channel_Communications

Clear Channel Communications, Inc. is an American mass media company headquartered in San Antonio, Texas. Founded in 1972 by Lowry Mays and Red McCombs, the company was taken private by Bain Capital, LLC and Thomas H. Lee Partners in a leveraged buyout in 2008; as a result, the company now operates as a wholly owned subsidiary of CC Media Holdings, Inc..[5][6]

Clear Channel specializes in radio broadcasting through subsidiary Clear Channel Broadcasting, Inc. and division Clear Channel Media and Entertainment (formerly Clear Channel Radio); and billboard advertising through subsidiary Clear Channel Outdoor Holdings, Inc.. Clear Channel is the largest owner of full-power AM, FM, and shortwave radio stations and twelve radio channels on XM Satellite Radio, and is also the largest pure-play radio station owner and operator. The group was in the television business until it sold all of its TV stations to Newport Television in 2008.

P.S. -- Bain owns most of Thomas H. Lee Partners, too ;-)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:43 | 2737827 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Mitt Romney is a MORMON businessman.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:51 | 2737833 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Mormon = Christian.  He believes in Christ.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:41 | 2737929 hannah
hannah's picture

mittens believes in mittens...first and formost.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:58 | 2737945 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

You must know very, very little about the Mormon faith.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:16 | 2738706 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

I always thought of Mormons as Christian.

Much as I hate Wikipedia quotes...

Mormons self-identify as Christian, though some of their beliefs differ from mainstream Christianity. Mormons believe in the Bible, as well as other books of scripture, such as the Book of Mormon. They have a unique view of cosmology, and believe that all people are spirit-children of God. Mormons believe that returning to God requires following the example of Jesus Christ, and accepting his atonement through ordinances such as baptism. They believe that Christ's church was restored through Joseph Smith, and is guided by living prophets and apostles. Central to Mormon faith is the belief that God speaks to his children and answers their prayers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormons

Can you please explain what you are saying ebworthen?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:07 | 2737907 monad
monad's picture

No he's not. Check it, he's a bishop of a pagan communist cult. "Latter Day Saints"? Didn't Jesus mention that? He's a pro-war draft dodger campaigning to represent the conservative party, the party of old school values, which he has demonstrated that he doesn't have.

If he gets this nomination the Republican party is finished. If Obamney gets elected we're totally fucked.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:03 | 2738209 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

"Christian businessman is prime example of oxymoron"

Zionist Banker is prime example of oxymoron

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:17 | 2738219 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Actually, "Zionist banker" is a tautology.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:05 | 2737731 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture


"Always remember, Christianity is a degrading slave religion. That's why the owners love it. It keeps the sheep in their place."

the owners probly had darwinist ideals that the slaves were all animals, not a Christian ideal at all. are you forgetting the movement against slavery was led by the Churches and prominent Christians

"Divine Right of Kings mentality"

how about a Mao'ist kill anyone who isnt a communist mentality, or "Religion is poison mentality"??

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:39 | 2737755 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Probly had Darwinist ideals? All of that Divine Right crap existed well before Darwin. If I'm not mistaken. Darwin himself believed in a God or higher power and never applied his theory to humans. That was all done by his detractors and those wanting to use his theories to justify their own ugliness.

I never said Christianity cornered the market on stupidity and homicide. Just that they say one thing and do another. I would also posit that Mao and Stalin and Hitler were all religious folks. Their religion was called communism and the Third Reich. We also have a similar religion in the US. It's called American Exceptionalism in which we believe it's okay for us to shit all over other countries to extract resources and use low cost labor and if they say anything negative about it we call them terrorists and kill them.

As for the churches being anti-slavery circa 1860, you could have found just as many southern churches who preached in favor of slavery as you could northern churches doing the opposite. There were also non-Christians involved in that. See, that's the problem I have with religion, they take all the glory for their partial involvement in anything that turns out positive, and hide the skeletons in the closet instead of doing the Christian thing and seeking forgiveness. This why the whole hypocrisy claim comes up so often against Christians. Admittedly Mao, Stalin and Hitler were vile, nasty bastards, but they weren't hypocrites.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:14 | 2737796 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture

"Mao, Stalin and Hitler were vile, nasty bastards, but they weren't hypocrites" 

all three sold the idea of paridise on earth to the mindless masses that followed them, all three brought hell on earth thru their eternal abyss of lust for power, if not hypocrites forked tounged decievers and mass murderers, but trully they were hypocrites as well

i dont get this "Divine right crap" in all Christs teaching elitism was not somthing that stood out for me, the zionists are a cultural movement from the OT, but Christ drove out the money changers, challenged the high priests, challenged the monarchs, challenged the imperialist, and condemed hypocrites

the little guy found hope and solice in Christian teaching for little under 2000 yrs now, a hell of a lot longer than Roman imperialism, a hell of a lot longer than communism, nationalist socialism, or US imperial democracy, and i tip it will see off neo secular atheist darwinism

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:32 | 2737814 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

problem is is that the Romans highjacked christian teachings and used them to extend their Empire in stealth for a little under 2000 years now.

 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:15 | 2738067 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Going that way is dangerous: it negates the point. If christianity has changed along the way, during 2000 years, the little guy has found solace in different forms of christianity.

At this point, one could also state that for 2000 years, the little guy has found solace in imperialism.

That would debunk the point of the other 'American'...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:43 | 2738652 akak
akak's picture

The ragingly bigoted and otherwise meaningless babbling of the demonstrated troll above are unworthy of response.
Please do not reply to it, or to him, in any way.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:48 | 2738765 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

hi

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:42 | 2737823 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"the little guy found hope and solice in Christian teaching for little under 2000 yrs now"

Really?  How many little guys and gals were tortured to death during the Spanish Inquisition?  Did they hope the torture would stop soon when they said they were proper Christians?  Did they find solace in their deaths?  How many innocents were burned as witches in Salem?  And you do realize, don't you, that the Nazis called themselves Christians? Look at some of their symbols if you can take the challenge to your belief system.

Believe what you want, but study history before you make outrageously false claims about the acts of men.  

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:11 | 2737858 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture

"Believe what you want, but study history before you make outrageously false claims about the acts of men. "

its is yourself that need a history leason. I doubt you even know what nazi stands for, hitler used the Christian vote, but he dispised Christianity as a weak iresulute ideal, he admired islam for its totalitarian structure

ahh the inquisition.. if you can actually give me the number of tortured heritics, or burnt witches without google-ing i'll give you a point, but regardless if you actually picked up a history book and read about the EVIL nasty Christian inquisition, you might find the courts that tried and convicted those people to torture or death were sanctioned by the municipalities and were motivated generally by political motivation much like Hitler manipulating the vote, or Obama, or Romney, such fine Christian men. fool.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:50 | 2737979 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I'm sure you can find lots of examples through history of Christian leaders that didn't kill and maim.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:02 | 2737848 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Would you say "little guy" could be replaced by "slave", thereby making Christianity a slave morality (and mentality)?

Seems to me the little guy is an infinitely stupid dupe who's been had by those with the master morality (and mentality), whether they claim to be Christian or not.

So long as there are men with the slave morality, there will be slaves in one form or another.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:21 | 2737871 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture

id say the little guy is the man not born into priveledge and power no more than that

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:01 | 2737894 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I wouldn't say Christianity was a slave religion, more of a brainwashed religion. Nobody is sold into Christian slavery and anyone that disagrees with the religion can leave and stop practicing the faith.

You can say that children with Christian parents are obviously taught the Christian faith, but as far as I know no one is killed for either leaving the faith or converting to another religion as can happen with Islam in some Muslim countries.

Plus, nobody is forced to attend Christian churches, even if you are a true believer, as opposed to the Muslim religion where your required to pray toward Mecca five times a day.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:30 | 2737957 i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"the little guy is the man not born into priveledge and power"

Thank you for your timely demonstration of the slave mentality!!

Those who took the hazardous sea voyage to the New World had hopes, dreams, a work ethic and a can-do attitude in defiance of those born into privilege and power.

What made America great was the belief that "anyone could make it" to wealth and/or power. Indeed, it was because America provided such an example that TPTB determined to destroy American freedom and autonomy right from the day after the Declaration of Independence was signed. Now, finally, after 235 years of concerted effort, they have succeeded.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 00:35 | 2738004 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture

your grasping for straws pal really, the little guy isnt a predetermanation, the rest of your statement i agree with fundamentally because im Christian, as were the founding fathers

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:19 | 2738069 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Those who took the hazardous sea voyage to the New World had hopes, dreams, a work ethic and a can-do attitude in defiance of those born into privilege and power.

What made America great was the belief that "anyone could make it" to wealth and/or power.
____________________

With the good help of generous sponsors like the Indians and negroes...

______________________

What made America great was the belief that "anyone could make it" to wealth and/or power. Indeed, it was because America provided such an example that TPTB determined to destroy American freedom and autonomy right from the day after the Declaration of Independence was signed. Now, finally, after 235 years of concerted effort, they have succeeded.
______________________

Why would an elite be wary of 'Americanism'? 'Americanism' has removed any bounds that could exist on them, they can do the same as before with no negative consequences.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:41 | 2738646 akak
akak's picture

The ragingly bigoted and otherwise meaningless babbling of the demonstrated troll above are unworthy of response.
Please do not reply to it, or to him, in any way.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:49 | 2738770 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

shut up

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:11 | 2738063 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

they take all the glory for their partial involvement in anything that turns out positive, and hide the skeletons in the closet instead of doing the Christian thing and seeking forgiveness.

___________________________

Hey, 'Americans' have been doing the same and probably this feature in 'American' christians comes more from 'Americanism' than it comes from christianity, as one can assess by history.

But yep, 'Americans' take all the glory for their partial involvement in anything that turns out positive (to them) while they keep shifting the blame on humanity for anything turning out negative.

'Americanism' at work.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 04:22 | 2738127 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey A2 !

at least you have something to jerk off to

fuk you if you don't have enuf guilt, BiCh!

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:43 | 2738654 akak
akak's picture

The ragingly bigoted and otherwise meaningless babbling of the demonstrated troll above are unworthy of response.
Please do not reply to it, or to him, in any way.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:41 | 2737822 imbrbing
imbrbing's picture

There are no true christians left, but maybe so few a child could number them.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:20 | 2737924 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

George, you sound bitter, but you should remember that it has been the Progressives and modern liberals who have applied the principles of Darwin more agressively than anyone else politically, specifically with respect to eugenics. The left (communist/socialists/progressives/liberals) have been smitten with Darwin and his philosophy, and nowhere, more than among the left, has survival of the fittest been close to a secular religious mantra.  On the other hand, this country, with all of its blessings and faults, would never have existed without Christianity; it never could have been createn by moslems, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, or Shitoists.  Maybe you just want something to hate, and Christianity fills the bill.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:01 | 2737723 Captain Kurtz
Captain Kurtz's picture

It's true what you say about christians and democrats, but in the end it is an illusion.  Darwinisn doesnt yield to legislation nor political affilitiion--either way, left or right.  It IS.  It's sort of a false pretense to say any individual or group can influence it.

 

If one doesnt like the outcome of Darwinism well thats another topic altogether now isnt it?  Just something to think about.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:18 | 2737668 q99x2
q99x2's picture

It has been this way since the 1960s. It sucked before. Now it is about to change the world from anything boomers have ever seen outside of a war zone.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:16 | 2738490 DosZap
DosZap's picture

It has been this way since the 1960s. It sucked before. Now it is about to change the world from anything boomers have ever seen outside of a war zone.

Guess what, YOUR invited to the party too.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:32 | 2737682 Schacht Mat
Schacht Mat's picture

This article highlights the fundamental failure of pure democracy.  The rich vote with donations, the poor with numbers, and the middle class become the fleeced.  Just like pure capitalism, pure democracy, or pure anything, is unhealthy.  At some point, either the state funds the campaigns of all candidates (having a minimum poll rating - say 5% or 10%, in the nation) EQUALLY, and individuals who receive over a given percentage (or amount) of their income through government largesse (meaning earned income working for the government is not included in this assessment) are restricted from voting (just as children cannot vote because their level of maturity requires the society to support them) or our one person of legal age  / one vote democratic system will continue to erode the middle class until the middle class (also known as the foundation of our society) crumbles and takes the democratic system with it.  Historically, we are either past the point of no return, or very close to it (depending on whose assessment you use).  The next four years are the last chance we have - and the apparent choices look grim - we may in fact be doomed.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:21 | 2738070 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

In 'American' nations, the middle class makes the vote.

Poors are for a large part disenfranchised and the rich have to buy the elective process.

The only class that can vote themselves stuff is the middle class.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:41 | 2738638 akak
akak's picture

The ragingly bigoted and otherwise meaningless babbling of the demonstrated troll above are unworthy of response.
Please do not reply to it, or to him, in any way.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:32 | 2737683 diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

boltzmann hung himself on vacation

infinity set theory will do that to you if you have a conscience

 

if you are a psychopath you could construct a giant digital hologram of the real economy and swap out the input/output matrices gradually, defrauding the entire planet systematically and living like a king...

 

NO PAIN ALL GAIN

 

its a great ruse that plays off all the seemingly best intentions in the hearts of people who mean well - but tough love is what is needed today, true leadership and an end to the ponzi infinimoney racket (the age of engineered crises).

 

still dealing with the downstream implementation realities of the oldest con game in the book really, whether we are talking NWO banking cartels or false flag terror

 

 

we are all sick of getting the short end of the stick and watching the polarization of true wealth, we eat the consequences and cry gin soaked tears while madmen run the planet and brag about being teflon juggernauts

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:35 | 2737685 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture

the ideology of darwinism has given rise to the three most murderous socialist regimes in history atheistic socialist Russia, nationalist socialist Germany and athiest socialist China

Darwinism is not the driving force behind free libertarian markets, pretty sure if you check the history books you'll find its western Christian society that fosters to libertarian ideals

its God that offers life and free will, its darwin that offers elitism and murder on a mass scale without retribution, it become not the strong survive but the strong can do whatever they want so long as they remain the strong

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:43 | 2737696 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Your post screams retardation.  It's starting to look like the opinions section in my local paper in here.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:50 | 2737709 the exitchambers
the exitchambers's picture

someone who offers cynical hit and runs without any cognitive arguments would be best discribed as retard.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:58 | 2737717 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Jesus forgives me

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:32 | 2737892 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

 

the ideology of darwinism has given rise to the three most murderous socialist regimes in history atheistic socialist Russia, nationalist socialist Germany and athiest socialist China.

 

Darwin did not create an ideology, he was a naturalist who described what he saw, different plants and animals in the tropics from what he saw in England. He created evolutionary biology.

 

Ideologies are the product of culture, forms of advertising, all modern ideologies advertise industrial modernity and 'products', todays ideologies emerge from pop culture which writes the scripts for all of culture's actors.

 

There are murderous socialists regimes and murderous capitalist regimes. None of these have anything to do with evolutionary biology (which right now is obsessed with genomic taxonomy, BTW.)

 

Social 'Darwinism' is a science the way Jim Cramer is a financial advisor.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 08:22 | 2738271 11b40
11b40's picture

Was it the Tutsi's or the Hutu's in the Congo who were the Socialist?

What political ideology did Pol Pot worship?

The lust for power & domination will pursue the path that leads to victory. Ideology is but a tool.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:47 | 2737700 diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

Darwin and Galton is eugenecist origin mythos, totally

 

moreover transhumanism et al. is a new umbrella for the concept

 

you see the dust up between max keiser and thomas woods?

 

this is an old debate that is now finally coming to the fore

 

i really think our movement has become self-aware at this point and such things are a sign of it

 

we are no longer merely reacting to "bernanke puts" and the perpetually output false zeitgeist of lies and junk information

 

for a long time now the enemy has bragged of their breakaway civilization - i see now all of the prerequisites for our own nascent culture to become a truly Noble Culture

 

open debate about mises hayek menger etc.

 

hayek and bastiat i think are the sharpest shooters - but think of how these two disparate camps exist within our "awakening" culture and how the conflict that comes with us finally turning away from the eye of sauron and towards one another, even if it entails vehement debate, is a sign of self-awareness and could really forge (we must come to terms) or crystallize things...

 

a new renaissance sleeps within the breast of man today and Western Civilization especially

 

it is clear the NWO wants to destroy Christianity and all religions - fusing them into a theosophical one world religion aligned with the same bullshit attitudes and perspectives the author mentions regarding our consequence free for elites plutocratic environment  - i remember i first took up arms against organized religion though for genuine reasons, organized formalized dogma, 501c3 churches preaching Romans 13 etc. - who wouldnt instinctively rebel against such a corrupt system?

 

but i find myself today, shoulder to shoulder in the fight against the NWO with Christians - not fake, holier than thou Christians - but people who, like the philosopher Christ, drove the money changers out of the temple.

 

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/578788_502152066466974_20...  

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 21:43 | 2737895 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

Any 'new renaissance' will not occur until consumerism is ended and automobiles/execrescences of modernity are done away with.

One form of waste v. other forms of waste is not a real argument.

Capital is finite, when it's burned up there is nothing left but cannibalism.

Not much of a renaissance.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:02 | 2737925 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Unless of course, as a prepper, you've stocked up on an unlimited supply of KC Masterpiece Honey barbecue sauce. Then, even cannibalism can have its benefits. And, with the diversity of supply out there you can have dark meat or white meat, or even venture out into some Asian delicacies. And if you like it spicey you can snack on a little Chipolte Mexican or some Indian Curry dishes.

When your a cannibal and there's 7 billion other two legged MRE's, meals ready to eat, then the supply may seem unlimited. So chow down kids, 7 billion is a lot to eat, and time is a wasting.

Me thinks Mr. Downstroke doesn't like my acerbic satire.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:02 | 2737780 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

I love the whole "bigger asshole" method of attack here. Christianity supposedly preaches about peace and love and all that crap, meanwhile doing their own muders and pedophilia behind the scenes, or in the open in the old days of colonialism when they could get away with it. So they point to Stalin and Mao and say "but they were worse" as if that makes them better.

It's quite obvious why you are a Christian exitchambers. It seems you are quite comfortable with the cognitive dissonance required to hold such beliefs.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:54 | 2737942 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

It seems to me that the proper conclusion would be to assume the pedophile is not a Christian rather than determine that pedophilia is consistent with Christian doctrine............

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 00:27 | 2737999 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The Devil can quote scripture when it suits his purpose(s).

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:35 | 2737686 diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

its an engineered crisis like every one in the last century plus, it makes perfect sense when you realize its not supposed to make sense

 

i guess the onus of awakening the human species is all thats left to us, we have only fictional debts to pay, the strength left in our sinews, and our minds.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:54 | 2737694 exartizo
exartizo's picture

WHERE HAVE ALL THE MUPPETS GONE?

By Exartizo (An Ex-Goldman Sachs Employee)

August 25, 2012

Where have all the Muppets gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Muppets gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Muppets gone?
Goldmanites killed them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Markets gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Markets gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Markets gone?
Corrupted and Manipulated every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where has all the Market Volume gone?
Long time passing
Where has all the Market Volume gone?
Long time ago
Where has all the Market Volume gone?
Destroyed by HFT Algos every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Politicians gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Politicians gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Politicians gone?
Into The Banksters Pockets every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Corzinators gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Corzinators gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Corzinators gone?
Skinned Alive and Burning In Hell every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all The Banksters gone?
Long time passing
Where have all The Banksters gone?
Long time ago
Where have all The Banksters gone?
Lynched by Icelanders every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Icelanders gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Icelanders gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Icelanders gone?
Why they lynched The Banksters every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Germans gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Germans gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Germans gone?
Inflationary bread lines every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Grecians gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Grecians gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Grecians gone?
Back to Ouzo and Olives every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the Americans gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Americans gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Americans gone?
To buy channel stuffed American Autos every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the houses gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the houses gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the houses gone?
To minorities that can’t afford them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the “Gen C” Kids gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the “Gen C” Kids gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the “Gen C” Kids gone?
Texting on iPhone’s every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:46 | 2737699 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

What's a middle class again?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 18:48 | 2737707 diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

i was born in 77, the modern age, where we dont put people on the moon and we dont have a middle class

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:25 | 2737808 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

 

 

Old Paradigm: vibrant, growing Middle Class, productive economy, putting people on the Moon.

New Paradigm: aggressive entitlement class, ZIRP economy, putting people in Walmart.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 13:52 | 2738776 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

do you zhers beieve in the moon landing? I don't

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 14:05 | 2738800 akak
akak's picture

How ironic then, you being a lunatic and all.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 15:09 | 2738898 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

never heard of ya

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 16:28 | 2755341 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

I love the possible double layered paradox that considering that opens up!

An appropriate saying is that "The lies are different at every level."  Anyone who spends enough time looking at the contradictions in the apparent evidence that "we" went to moon starts to have serious doubts, due to the manifest contradictions. (I have read a couple books and watched a couple videos about that, enough to see that there ARE serious contradictions in the evidence.) HOWEVER, the next level of lies is that "we" may well already have very advanced technology, that is being kept hidden from the public. ((There also is the question of the reality of some "aliens" which I remain an agnostic about, since I have no first hand knowledge whatsoever.)) Anyway, I believe that the best way to resolve ALL of the apparent contradictions is to believe that the APOLLO missions were partial hoaxes, which were used to hide some other real missions, made using secret technology. Therefore, "we" did NOT go to the Moon the way that the public was told ... that was a propaganda publicity stunt, but "we" DID go the moon using other secret technology ... (((and MAYBE encountered some possible realities that there were lots of different aliens out there???)))

Anyway, that is my way of attempting to resolve the contradictions. That the APPOLLO missions were partially hoaxes is one of the WORST of all the conspiracy theories to have to believe in, from a psychological point of view, since it dashes the some of the greatest hopes. However, like I said, anyone who takes enough time to examine the evidence discovers lots and lots of contradicitons, that can not be easily explained away!  Thus, as I said, adding ALL of that evidence together, which I am aware of, I concluded as I said above, that APOLLO missions were partial hoaxes, to hide even more astonishing space mission successes made with secret technologies ... Remember the basic facts that there are several thousand patents that have been classified as secret by the government! Of course, I have ZERO first hand information about any of that, and so, I have HEDGED my bets by believing what I have outlined above.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:08 | 2737733 akak
akak's picture

The middle class is the king class in US Citizenism, whose nature is eternal.

Don't you know anything?

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 23:00 | 2737948 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Hey, you sound like Anony...something...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 05:20 | 2738146 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey, eb!

middle class is still 6, 7, & 8 i'm pretty sure...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 19:12 | 2737738 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

Suggestion for a ZH guest post:  why, on a sufficiently long enough time line, all democracies decay into unwieldy, cradle-to-grave welfare states in which the ups and downs of market forces get deemed intolerable.

TBTF, ZIRP, NIRP, QEx, ESM, EFSF, SMP, Twist and the rest of the alphabet soup of programs are all symptoms of aging democracies where elected officials want to avoid at all costs any near-term pain that could yield lasting future benefits.  And the electorate continually devolves into a state of dependency, unwilling at first and then unable to take responsibility for its decisions and actions.

Just pointing out the elephant in the room... like a senile geriatric, an advanced-staged democracy makes assine decisions and eventually becomes the ward of someone else (e.g., tyrant).  And ultimately it is no one other than the electorate that is to blame.

Let's just get on with the inevitable fall, so something new can arise.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:49 | 2737832 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses [...]" -Alexis de Tocqueville or Alexander Tytler

Because it is the path of least resistance.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 00:11 | 2737992 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

We don't need something new to arise, we need the Constitution to be restored... and it will be after the MASS ARRESTS occur and the traitors to the American dream are taken to the cleaners... http://tinyurl.com/cd5cyjo/

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:30 | 2738031 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

Altough I love your avatar, I have to disagree.

The majority weren't consulted on any of the programs you sight.  If it were up to us, the Dow would be at zero and Hank Paulson, Jamie Dimon, Angelo Mozilo, Rob Rubin (I could do this all day...) would be in prison.

The actions you sight were actions of the elites hi-jacking countries, not those of democracies.  

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:45 | 2738538 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

Our views are not mutually exclusive.  The merry band of government bureaucrats you have in mind is the metaphorical "tyrant" I mentioned.  We're already at the terminal stage - if the U.S. government were a cancer patient, she'd have three weeks to live.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:19 | 2737801 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

<<"If you’re rich you get a bailout. If you’re poor you get a handout. And if you’re middle class you get left out.">>

 

Hits the nail on the head!

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 20:25 | 2737811 dolph9
dolph9's picture

America is finished when the economic collapse finally hits the upper middle class, as it inevitably will.  Then the elites won't have any footsoldiers left, and it's game over.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 00:47 | 2738015 LouisDega
LouisDega's picture

What is considered poor? Just curious.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:23 | 2738225 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Working all the time at a job you hate.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 01:32 | 2738033 AynRandFan
AynRandFan's picture

Geez Louise.  So this is what an unedited comment forum looks like.  Darwinism?  Mormonism?  Sorry, but even the forum at Marketwatch is (was) usually better than this.

The prevention of failure is keeping several sectors from clearing, and threatens to poison the overall economy.  Central banks are motivated to prevent failure so that the system doesn't collapse.  But, the biggest problem is not central banks but instead the socialistic culture that keeps Europe from cutting off failed states and/or systems.  It is the culture that keeps the U.S. doling out paychecks for 2 years so that folks can watch TV all day long, while running up the national debt.

The goal of economic equality cannot be reconciled with the principle of failure.

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 15:59 | 2738072 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

Money is based on robbery, backed by murder.

The debt controls depended on death controls.

Applying energy laws and general systems theory to human society reveals profound paradoxes! The oldest book on the Art of War begins by saying success in war depends on deceit, and ends by saying that spies are the most important soldiers. Civilization was made in the crucible of conflicts. Those who were the best at being dishonest and backing that up with violence controlled civilization. Those who were the best at death control were also the best at lying about it. Everything goes down its path of least resistance, which in the human world is the path of least morality. The history that made War King evolved as information became more important that physical power to become that FRAUD IS KING.

Follow the money to its SOURCE!!!  The supreme organized crime gangs, the biggest gangsters, were the international banksters, who effectively took control over governments. (We live in a plutocracy hiding behind a fake democracy.)

Advances in science and technology have astronomically amplified to become a global fiat money electronic fraud, backed up by atomic weapons. The idea of "competition" was displaced to become competion between different systems of lies and robbery, in which those who were the best at being dishonest prevailed. However, since the lies can never be made to become true by being backed up with force, the system as a whole becomes more and more insane, and heads towards psychotic breakdowns, due to that paradox of failure from too much "success."

The collapse of the American Dollar and American Military would be the collapse of a social pryamid system of Neolithic civilization that has been amplified quadrillions of times more than anything previously existing in known human history. Our political science should be changed as much as our physics and biology have!

Of course, I have been worrying about those things for several decades, as presented here:

http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/article.php3?id_article=161

That article provides links through to tons more of my kind of bla, bla, blah about these topics ...

In our complex systems, "somebody taking the loss" shall spill over from financial collapse to world war and martial law. It is a COMBINED money/murder system, and one cannot be changed without the other. Since our civilization is controlled by the people who were the best at being dishonest, the future will be the hyper-complicated collapse of the Fraud Kings' systems.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 02:57 | 2738093 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Darwinism is an invention by 'Americans' to justify their breach of their own principles.

Darwin never wrote anything about so called 'Darwinism'

Second, it is been a while since natural selection has been suspended in human societies through cultures.

'Americans' have managed to sell the illusion of suspending the physical world existence through their infinite growth meme. Concumitantly, they have also developed various human selection programs in order to bolster their own society order: 'Americanism'

As it includes selecting greedy people on the base that greed is desirable and that 'American' economics leads to a world depleted of resources, expect some fireworks down the way...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 05:28 | 2738150 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

exactly!  american christianz do not accept social darwinism b/c  it would relieve the citizenism of too much guilt

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 06:20 | 2738186 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

They must not accept it as theft of indian land was not accepted.

'Americans' have been doing a lot in what they call "social darwinism"

'Americanism' is a story of society driven human selection.

'Americans' have substituted nature with themselves.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:05 | 2738211 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Um, so now it's Americanism?  What happened to US Citizenism?  You know why people hate you so much?  I'll tell you.  You envelop anyone and everyone who happens to live in the US into your convenient little perspective of hate.  There are a lot of us that live decent lives and just want to be left alone to live in peace, and don't much care for the actions of our government or anything else that you perceive we are all blobbing up.  Give it a rest already.  OnAndOnymous, that should be your moniker.  We're sick of you.  Why don't you yourself find something productive to do. 

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 12:40 | 2738637 akak
akak's picture

The ragingly bigoted and otherwise meaningless babbling of the demonstrated troll above are unworthy of response.
Please do not reply to it, or to him, in any way.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 07:58 | 2738253 TheFuture_MrGittes
TheFuture_MrGittes's picture

Off Topic.

Another refinery fire - Venezuela Amuay refinery.

This seems to be happening more frequently, so I decided to search Google news (search term: refinery fire) for 6 month periods over the past five years, using the number of results as a proxy for the frequency of occurance and got:

26/02/12 - 26/08/12 ~74,800 stories 0.17s
26/08/11 - 26/02/12 ~594 stories 0.44s
26/02/11 - 26/08/11 ~1150 stories 0.32s
26/08/10 - 26/02/11 ~505 stories 0.26s
26/02/10 - 26/08/10 ~668 stories 0.16s
26/08/09 - 26/02/10 ~175 stories 0.22s
26/02/09 - 26/08/09 ~176 stories 0.48s
26/08/08 - 26/02/09 ~166 stories 0.27s
26/02/08 - 26/08/08 ~501 stories 0.22s
26/08/07 - 26/02/08 ~848 stories 0.18s

Something don't smell right, and it ain't just burning crude.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:37 | 2738360 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

"If you’re rich you get a bailout. If you’re poor you get a handout. And if you’re middle class you get left out."

 

Not exactly the full story because the economic assets from which these government subsidies come from exist somewhere.  Even when money for handouts and bailouts is printed from thin air, the things that are purchased and the people who work at the many Solyndras are real.  The wealth to pay for bailouts and handouts comes by dilution of the value of the dollars held by everyone, and in proportion to the number of dollars they hold.  

 

When wealthy people are bailed out, the dilution in the value of their dollars is compensated for at least in part by the bailout.  The poor get handouts that are roughly adjusted for inflation.   And much of the handouts to the poor are on an in-kind basis, so inflation directly affects goverment budgets not the number of dollars in the direct handout.  Governemnt can print however many dollars it takes to prove a certain level of these services.

 

The middle class only gets left out of being compensated for inflation caused by money-printing.  Because of that, its wealth is the pool that government dilution affect most.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 10:58 | 2738466 BigJim
BigJim's picture

We're conflating individuals with groups here.

Yes, if you are rich, and the government inflates to pay for bailouts, then the purchasing power of your dollars declines. But if you were one of those rich who got saved from utter bankruptcy by government intervention, you're not seeing any dilution in your dollars' purchasing power because, without the bailout, you wouldn't have had any dollars left to purchase anything.

What's more, a lot of 'the rich' are principally rich on paper. If paper assets had been allowed to collapse back in 2007, the loss in relative, nominal wealth would have far outstripped the wealth dilution effect wrought by the price inflation the bailouts caused.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 09:55 | 2738373 razsil
razsil's picture

Not only that, but we encourage people to bet on Wall Street. If they win they get paid enough money to make generations in their family to be comfortable and if they lose, we pay to cover it.

I don't know about you, but when I hire people to work for me I try to pay them for their skills and not for their luck. You must read this article - Paying for Luck:  How to Stop Gambling with Employee Compensation - http://rsilberman.com/?p=555 - that talk about how to avoid those macro problem in your own business and not make the same mistakes those people are doing.

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 11:52 | 2738550 Jim B
Jim B's picture

Peak Oil = Peak hype! 

 

Price will regulate the supply of oil and substituton...

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 18:05 | 2739195 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

it's easier for an extremist to walk an AR-15 onto a flight than for a billionaire to give a crap about anybody

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