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what? no gold and silver bars?
speaking of survival gear, any recommendations for a first gun (or two) purchase? there's a gun show here in socal this weekend and i do not plan to leave empty handed (ignoring the waiting period). my thinking is one handgun and one shotgun. i've researched handguns and am leaning towards a glock (19 or 21) or a springfield xdm (9mm or 0.45). i have minimal background knowledge of shotguns, however. any thoughts or recommendations
all depends on what you're looking to do. If you need to hunt small game, a .22 rifle is a good choice. For self defense.. there's discussion boards that argue this endlessly. To me, it comes down to your situation and what you prefer. Can be anything from a 20ga shotgun to 9mm/.40/..45 pistol. Def. no easy answer.
Imo when SHTF, it'll be the things you don't think of (like water) that will cause the most grief. That's where self-defense may be most appropriate--to protect against the zombie hoards.
"Junior" shotguns (ones designed for teaching young kids) are also a good defense choice. They are shorter barrelled making it easier to swing to target and less intimidating for women to use. Also, 20 gauge has less kickback and is not as "scarey" to shoot. (I teach beginner women to hold the gun stock against their ribs under the arm, rather then against their shoulder (Granny style), until they are completely comfortable with the gun(s).)
Also, loud (less expensive) handguns (such as the Taurus 0.45) are good for startling a potential attacker. I believe that a loud bang can compensate for a beginner's lack of skills.
A .22 is definitely a good tool to get early on. Cheap gun, cheaper target practice, a good squirrel, rabbit, snake gun. Generally quiet, espec with low velocity rounds. Easily available ammo.
Ruger 10/22 is a good .22 cal rifle for hunting and general shooting practice. They can be had hella cheap. I'm amazed at how accurate my bare-bones one is (standard barrel, cheap plastic stock, etc.) and I don't think I paid more than $150 for it.
For shot guns, look for a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 variant. They are very cheap and very common. You can pimp one out with lots of stuff to make it fit for you if you so desire. I've seen them for as little as $300 New. For a zombie apocalypse, look for the variants that come in all black, as opposed to cammo or with wood stocks and grips. The all black ones are generally cheaper, shorter and more for shooting "zombies" than game birds. Those one or two requirements are likely to get you a decent defense weapon without nerding out about barrel length, capacity, grip type blah blah blah.
Don't forget antibiotics. The best way to get good antibiotics with no prescription is "fish antibiotics" which are the same pills as the generics made for people.
Here are some on ebay.
Now if I were creative government official, instead of scaredy legislation to throw American citizens into jail, I'd put survival guys to work for country they love. How? Protect our borders. Pay those who already prepared with guns, train, provide good house and offer them work on border.
if.. we were to be blessed with a fire..
then here are some simple rules everyone should understand.
fires burn slowly at first.. then spread and then burn hot.. until they burn themselves out of fuel.. and then smolder.. unless a good wind comes long and carries one of the hat ashes to new fuel.
how much fuel is there in America?
how many areas are there in which this fuel is condensed?
is there more fuel in south central LA than in Montana for instance?
how long before that fuel burns itself out?
I would offer.. if, I.. F.. spells IF!
there is a problem and fires start burning.. all anyone would have to do is keep their family safe until the fires burn themselves out or down to an easily controllable level..
then all you have is clean up.. some new construction and a better place than you started with.
think of all the new roads and building America has built all over the World after we burned them down with bombs!
the real question is.. if someone were to decide on a controled burn..
what would you like to see accomplished?
be rid of the top 1% of the top 1% becuase you are tired of thier drunk driving of the Country maybe?
that is my issue.. maybe your is being rid of the Jews! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LjvSIBKVc
maybe it is closing the boarders and sending the Mexicans home? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajkAP_M4ZAM
I dont know what is important to you..
but as long as you are not getting in my way? (clearing out Wall Street, Washington DC ("K" Street Plus the Lobby Whores) and then my personal State Houses) I dont care what YOU! do..
But like the Jews said there were in the White House..
either you believe in the Constitution of the Untied States?
you believe in the procedural law that has enslaved America.
it is that simple.. and in the end.. those will be the two sides. They are already the two sides.. people like to twist things to allow for thier egos and personal importance.
which side are you on?
maybe you want to figure that out now and start acting like it.. you wouldnt want your nieghbors believing that you are part of the problem with the fires start.
Every question and answer on a gun forum
Police are the Terrorists..
NOT! the working class Protesters!
NOT! the College Kids Protesting!
Police ='s Terrorist!
Wall Street Owns the Lobby!
The Lobby Owns Washington DC!
The Duly Elected Lobby Whore in Washington DC Own the Police!
We the People! are screwed!
Uploaded by corbettreport on Dec 15, 2011
Original story: http://ur1.ca/6o4g5Previous video on this story: http://youtu.be/-v1h1bUfCVc
There are reports that President Obama has moved US troops to the Syrian border. James Corbett, host of The Corbett Report, helps us inspect what's going on around Syria.
SPIN IT JEW BOY!! SPIN IT!!
US Troops on Syrian Border! and then after Syria! IRAN!! is NEXT!! Sweet Lite Crude!! for ALL! at $150 a Barrel! Wall Street owns the Mercenaires! and the Big Oil Corporations! it is Double Winning for the Top 1% of 1%!
but if you are poor!
your childrens blood will be paying the real costs!
either you believe in the Constitution of the Untied States?
I have not seen Congress Vote on a War with Syria, have you?
Uploaded by RussiaToday on Dec 15, 2011
This week Max Keiser and co-host Stacy Herbert discuss re-hypothecating Alec Baldwin's cake and eating it too. And, as Al Capone before him, JP Morgan's Jamie Dimon complains of the thankless task of being a "public benefactor". In the second half of the show, Max talks to Reggie Middleton about German debt and MF Global
KR on FB: http://www.facebook.com/KeiserReport
Penn & Teller on the 2nd Amendment
This whole thread is worth spedning a chunk of your weekend on. However, here are the bits that I've kept and you may find them useful too.
"US Army Field Manual FM 21-76"
Hundred Pushups Program - Single Page Printablehttp://hundredpushups.com/hpu_bw_pocket.pdf
200 situps Program - Single Page Printablehttp://www.twohundredsitups.com/thsu_bw_pocket.pdf
missed some off:
Had two Savage 20/22Mag over-unders in my father's estate. Sold one, keeping one. The 22 Mag blew the head off a 5 foot rattler in the front yard. Only downside is you can't shoot 22LR out of it and 22Mag ain't cheap but the ballistics are way better than the LR. Makes a good 2 and 4 legged varmint gun with proper ammo.
A yard rake works pretty good on snakes including rattlers. A stick with a loop of rope on one end is what snake ranglers use.
A burlap sack in a pinch. I wouldn't waste ammo on a snake in your yard unless it was a 50ft Annaconda with a child in its jaws.
Even better is to bribe the local road runner population to keep snakes away. On a busy day, I have over a dozen around. We've never had a snake on the acreage and have only seen one in the surrounding desert even though various rattlesnakes, King snakes and others are common in the area. I'm not really a bird person but they're entertaining to have around. An ounce of prevention and all that...
we are talking survival here...so go with a Glock 19 is a good choice for a pistol..3 mags..and 1000 rounds of cheap ammo..200 rounds of good defense ammo...corbon or black hills comes to mind...
Shotgun for home defense..one that holds 6-8 shells...12 guage..get OO shot with a few slugs mixed in...100 rounds
I would get a rifle for longer distances if you have that...228 caliber....a brand name...again 1000 rounds of ammo..6 magaizines...100 rounds of good defensive ammo..
This guys night vision is crap...
you are not going to bug out in a canyon like this guy has a picture off..you are going to need to survive in your city town neighborhood house first...and friends who think the same way is the better defense...key word is think the same way you will have lots of friends if you have food and they have none..lots...and when they get hungry they get angry and will kill you for it..
So the most important survival item to prep is your brain..and that of your family...can you and will want to survive...can you kill..will you defend or will you just give it away..like a good liberal...tons have been written on this...some good some just to sell what they sell...survival is in your brain first..
The key to survival has consistently been discovered (in real life instances) to be a shift in one's thinking. It starts out as, "Who will rescue me?" but things improve the instant it becomes, "No one, I must rescue myself."
Do you really want to prepare to survive a majority of unforseen and life-threatening perils?
Try ToughMudder.com. It's punishing but the cheapest full body training you can get in my opinion.
That $1500 pistol training will buy you a lot of rifle, and ammo to practise with. You end up with something that works at ranges greater than about 20 yards. Which seems sorta useful to me.
That's the reason the author didnt talk about handguns. Range. I don't give a shit how much tactical pistol training you've had, I could kill you with my air rifle. Seriously. You may as well be throwing fucking rocks.
How often do you have your rifle on you? Does your crystal ball really work?
PS: Like many, I can get the hit at 200 yards with my sidearm, if necessary. That is well beyond the range of your air rifle, little boy.
It is also a fact that all but a vanishly small number of concealed carry holders will ever use their gun in self-defense. Most COPS go their entire careers without firing a single shot in anger. The whole self-defense with a gun is complete and utter bullshit. I say this as a permit holder and lifetime rifle and pistol shooter. The grand majority of people are far more likely to accidently shoot themselves with the gun than to defend their life or the lives of their loved ones.
200 yards with a handgun? Are you talking a 6" or 8 3/8" .44 Magnum or what? The drop of most hangun calibers and 200 yards can be measured in feet.
Read the book Deep Survival. It covers this whole "mindset" topic in detail.
Also, I'm guessing there will be a difference between a wilderness survival situation and what will be happening in cities. If more people have a mindset of cooperation things could go smoothly. If the current mindset of "I've got mine (or I'm gonna get mine), screw you" prevails then it could be quite nasty.
Another thing this article kind of presents is this idea that you can buy you survival with gadgets. Learning actual skills, not just of the survival sort, but of the how to be a decent human being sort might prove much handier than the "I'm a badass with a big gun" skills. Especially once all of the badasses with big guns have killed each other off and everyone else decides it's time to strive for a better life than feudal gang warfare. JMHO of course.
Survival boils down to once sentence:
The better your skills, the less equipment you need.
The BEST survivalists I've ever seen are capable of living anywhere with the clothes on their back and a small possibles pouch.
Another thing to take into consideration is what type of ammunition one's firearm uses.
For example, the 12 gauge shotgun round is common, but can be found in 4 different lengths.
The 2 1/2 inch for very old/obsolete or target practice, 2 3/4 inch, 3 inch, and 3 1/2 inch magnum. And there are also rifled slugs, and a variety of shot sizes to choose from.
One would be wise to have a 12 gauge shotgun designed to fire any available length, such as a Mossberg 835.
For rifles, NATO rounds are 5.56 X 45 mm, which are roughly the same as a .223 caliber round. Of note, a .223 can be fired from a firearm designed for 5.56, but a 5.56 should not be fired from a firearm chambered for .223.
For pistols, the .357 magnum revolver, or Coonan semi automatic hand gun can fire either .357 magnum rounds or 38 special ammunition. For the semi auto pistol, a spring will need to be replaced. Of note, a .357 magnum round is not to be fired from a firearm chambered for 38 special.
Another pistol that utilizes a variety of ammunition is the Smith & Wesson Governor, which can fire the common .45 ACP, .45 long colt, and .410 gauge shotgun shell.
The most important factor in picking the firearm that will be "right" for oneself would be price, ease of use/operation/cleaning, availability and price of ammunition, familiarity, and the 3 P's. Practice, Practice, Practice.
Yawn... A 9mm will be a serious threat to the spectre gunship or 155 artillery round.
Lets face it. If shit hits the fan, it will not be a zombie apocalypse.
This is an utter waste of time and money. I don't get all this "prepper" bs--it's clever marketing, I guess. YOU DON'T NEED A GUN UNLESS YOU ARE TAKING UP THE SHOOTING SPORTS AS A HOBBY. Fuck's sake.
Just imagine how quiet it will be once all the nutters have buggered off to the bush. ;-)
Yes, leaving you and the other 3 million city dwellers to make the avg Black Friday bedlam scenes look like a day at Wallyworld.
Whereas camping out in the country with thousands of gun toting paranoids and surviving on squirrel will be a walk in the park ?
I swear there are some people who are just looking forward to armagedon (Arm-an'-get-'um). No Gubmint, you see ?
In a SHTF/Collapse/WROL scenario - (not inclusive of an EMP/Grid down or pandemic panic scenario), there will not be tens of thousands leaving the cities, at least not at first, and rarely all at once, unless a massively nasty occurrence like a firestorm or hurricane drives them out. No single person is going to want to leave the security and safety of their "home" until the food runs out, and even then not right away. they will literally not leave until there is no food, they will leave if there is no water and no way of getting it. Some will even stay until they are on the brink of starvation, thinking "The government will drop food, they will send FEMA, the Red Cross is coming" thoughts along those lines - normalcy bias, its a real bitch.
I am going to place some facts right here: there are, according to the FBI National Gang Threat Assessment of 2011 fully 1.4 million active gang members in 30,000 total gangs - a 40% increase since 2009. Active. As in currently following gang activities etc. The number of "inactive" is higher still. That recent FBI document listed a startling fact: these gangs are recruiting out of and joining every single branch of the armed forces.
However, I digress.
Deaths from a serious SHTF scenario will be upwards of 75-80% of any population, the elderly, the critically ill, the ones who must have daily dialysis, those reliant on medications. We have discussed this before on other threads. Let us say within 1 month, 70-80% of the populace, is dead, from what ails them or lack of life saving medical help.
Add in attrition - murders, falls, infected cuts, lack of potable water, disease going untreated or under treated, fires, people dying of heat stroke (summer) or freezing to death (winter), animal bites (unfed dogs going feral, and attacking in packs), take another 5-15% off of the total populace of any given major city. That is anywhere from 75%-95% of any major metropolitan area's populace dead within one solid month of a massive SHTF scenario. If the SHTF scenario is an EMP or Solar flare, and the city is one like Los Angeles that must have almost all of it's water pumped in from over the mountains, advance the timeline.
There will be, in my opinion and the opinion of others I know, 3 waves of exodus from the cities.
1st wave - lets call them the smart ones. The 1%. However, they are going to be leaving in dribs and drabs. Not all at once, and not all will take the same route. They will almost all, to a person, stick to major arteries of travel and not wander more than 1-2 miles off the highway. this exodus will last maybe a week before the slime balls get smart. The earliest ones out have the best chance. It will be small groups and families, say no more than 10 folks at a time. No real threat there.
2nd wave - Lets call these the awakening sheep - 1 week, perhaps 1 and a half weeks after the event(s). Food is not available, the water is shut off. They are sick and weak from lack of food, lack of potable water. Many will not make it out of the city because the smart animals, the real low lives, will be set up on major roadways killing and looting the fleeing folks indiscriminately. These animals will also be roving gangs of looters, snatching what they want by force, killing any who stand in their way. These are the hard core urban gangs, the organized criminal packs of animals that within hours of a SHTF will have "liberated" several warehouse/dock areas/food distribution centers. I know of 5 within a 5 minute drive of my wife's grandparent's house and they live in "the bad part of town" where shootings and arson are common, nightly news occurrences. The animals with military training or recruited folks out of the military...they know where the military keeps its supplies and armaments. They may also have military trained personnel in their ranks.
The ones that actually make it out in the second wave will be the lucky, frightened, near starving, most likely sick ones that crept out on not so commonly traveled routes. Lets be nice and say 1% make it out. Scattered across a wide area, not much threat there.
Wave 3 will be the worst. This will contain the real bad element that sees the handwriting on the wall. Corpses piling up in the streets, disease running rampant, supplies running low, intermittent block to block warfare between rival "gangs". Based on best case scenario calculations, 1 to 2 months after a SHTF scenario, the Golden Horde heads out. These are going to have their own problems (loose organization, fuel needs, water needs, food needs), they will very likely stay on the major arteries of travel (man is a curious animal, 99.9% of the time, they take the path of least resistance, even if going a different route will shave their travel time in HALF), and if they are smart send scouts out 2-3 miles off the highway to find fuel, food, supplies that the first couple of waves or other survivors may have missed. These are the ones small towns and rural settlements on major roadways, and perhaps secondary roadways, will fear and have the worst time with.
Just an opinion, YMMV. All postulation anyhow. Fictional, you know...
Your scenario is predicated on a total and swift collapse of society.
One significant solar event, one massive collapse of an economic structure, one massive war in the Middle East/North Africa region, one EMP, one nuclear warhead, it all plays out the same. I purposefully wrote this post thinking along the lines of mass economic collapse which seems to be where we are headed. Once the banks start holidays and the trading markets shut down, products and serices stop moving.
When the price of oil spikes and fuel becomes so expensive people cannot affort to fill their tanks, the collapse accelerates. Trucks stop moving because 99.9% of all truck drivers rely on credit cards to purchase the vast amounts of fuel that is required to move your food the average of 1500 miles from farm to store. No trucks moving, trains instead? They will be seized nd shut down for governmental use, and make no bones about it, when the economy collapses, the Goverment will make an immediate move to clamp down and try to maintain order.
This is not just predicated it is proven. The big difference in an economic collapse of the Western World? It has worldwide impact.
Allow me to expand on that point.
FerFal in his highly regarded blog is continuously haranguing on how these "dire" predictions of chaos based on economic collapse will likely not happen, because they did not happen in Argentina when it's economy collapsed on 2001.
He lived through and lives in a country that experienced one of the worst economic meltdowns in modern history.
However. He lives in Argentina. Argentina is not the issuer of the world's reserve currency. Food in Argentina doesn't have to travel an average of 1500 miles from farm to market. Argentina's entire infrastructure is far smaller than the United States, and therefore less vulnerable. In Argentina, you do not have to pipe water literally hundreds of miles to bring life to the desert. Argentina has one bank, with exposure in the Billions of USD. The smallest of the US "too big to fail" banks have literally trillions of USD in exposure. You cannot buy a single drop of oil with any amount of Argentine Pesos from an OPEC country. Petrodollar, baby.
You cannot compare Argentina's collapse to a collapse of the US Economy. It is comparing apples and jackasses. Not even in the same family.
When the US Economy finishes unwinding, the repercussions will be felt worldwide. Argentina collapsed and they barely noticed it in Europe. When the US Economy goes, China is going to experience the economic equivalent of a kick to the junk. Europe is going to have an economic coronary. Africa, the Middle East, and South America will have economic strokes. When the USD collapses, the effects on our country are going to be profound, to say the least. The effects on the world will be devastating.
Fuel costs alone will cripple our country. When trucks and trains stop moving, food, fuel, everything stops moving. Supermarkets run out of food. Power plants cannot get the fuel they need delivered (coal), cannot afford the fuel (oil), or have to shut down because the workers cannot afford to drive into work (gas prices in the $60.00 a gallon range).
You know I keep telling people that FerFal has a solid blog. It is just when he starts throwing out these statements, I have to correct him. He thinks '01 was bad? Wait until the Petrodollar gets destroyed. The US will turn into a third world country literally overnight. It could even be worse. It really depends on how the masses react. A person is smart. People are dumb and panicy animals, especially when you remove those things that make their life "liveable".
As always, pray for the best, prepare for the worst.
I didn't happen during WW2.
And although it got pretty bad, it didn't happen during the Great Depression.
I should say, I'm in the UK. So it's a totally different situation to the USA. But I think you underestimate the resources and tenacity of your fellow countrymen.
During WW2 the UK was under imense pressure but reasonable, fair, representative government continued.
WW2 Happened BECAUSE of the economic collapse of Germany after WWI. You are also comparing apples to grapes. We were on a Gold standard then, and had GOLD backing our currency. This only becomes not only possible now, but highly probable unless and until we have a solid currency again. After Nixon removed the US from the gold standard in 71, he signed the death warrant for the Republic.
Fiat currencies are mathematically certain to collapse, it is only a question of when and how fast. Besides, the UK got a vast amount of economic and material backing from the US even before we "officially" entered the war.
I do not underestimate my fellow Americans, by and far, I am being generous.
Lets discuss an even more thought provoking statistic:
In the years leading up to the Great Depression, fully 90% of Americans were self sufficient and could grow and harvest adequate food for sustaining themselves and their families. This number includes the 27% of the populace that were "farmers". Only 10% of the populace all of which lived in urban areas were not self sufficient.
Today, perhaps 1% is self sufficient - completely self reliant upon what they produce to feed themselves and their family. 99%+ of Americans are completely dependent upon others to feed them.
The die off is going to be massive.
Now lets talk about electricity. Less than 30 years prior to my birth, electricity was not even commonly available in all areas of the nation. My grandparents were raised and lived a good portion of their lives without electric power. My great grandparents lived without it for their entire existence. So did every other ancestor of mine back to Adam and Eve.
The skills we, the modern Americans, have sacrificed in the name of "labor savings", creature comforts, entertainment, and convenience, have enslaved us all to the grid.
If you are "off grid", unless you are living without power 100%, you have only substituted one supplier - municipal power - for another - yourself. You are truly not self sufficient unless and until you, me, and everyone else can live without electricity completely for any extended length of time.
Someone below posted the Bosnian perspective. Civil war and no provision aside from occasional MRE drops. The death rate didn't appear to be nearly as high as quickly as you postulate, and that was with contant sniper fire from an enemy seige. I think everyone should read this real world experience.
then again they didnt have people like me paying a silver (U.S.) dollar per scalp for idiots either!
we need a good flushing in America!
get rid of the shit and piss!
This is possibly the best post of yours that I've read.
They had occasional MRE - read food drops, and outside countries were unaffected. This will be well and truly a different ball game.
Yeah he's got his own blog now...
He strongly recommends Bic lighters as an invaluable trade item. Get a 500 pack and sit on them. If nothing happens you can light your bong for a lifetime!
once TSHTF you can kiss goodbye the culture of "disposable items"
Get REAL lighters. And lighter fuel.
Damn you're Stupid.
1. He said for trading/barter. 2. disposable lighters can be refueled. 3. He was quoting what the Bosnian guy suggested have lived through the crisis.
Disposable lighters? Funny, just this morning I pulled one out of my glovebox that 2 years ago, last time I loked at it, was half full. It was empty. Bone dry. Nice spark, no flame.
They evaporate. Or something.
"The death rate didn't appear to be nearly as high as quickly as you postulate, and that was with contant sniper fire from an enemy seige."
Again, apples to oranges. You really think former Yugoslavia in the 90's (the "North Korea of Eastern Europe" if there ever was one) had infrastructure and a society even comparable to the U.S. today??
uh, yeah, I've been there.
What you think the truth is, is actually far from it. The serbs are a good people. The problem there was the seige and NATO annihilation campaign.
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