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Guest Post: The Predatory State of California, Part 2

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

The Predatory State of California, Part 2

Due process and rule of law have been replaced with "legalized" looting and harrassment by government in America.

Yesterday's entry Welcome to the Predatory State of California--Even If You Don't Live There generated dozens of emails recounting similar stories of "we don't need no stinkin' due process" looting and "fishing expeditions" by California and other state/local governments.

Let's begin with correspondent (and Arizona resident since 2001) R.T.'s experience of his account being looted without prior notice or due process by the state of California to the tune of $1,343. R.T. finally reached an employee of the State Franchise Tax Board and received an explanation.

The state representative stated that "we don't try to contact the person involved," i.e. the taxpayer whose account is about to be looted. The rep went on to explain that the state had received a 1099 from a financial institution for the year 2006 and had promptly stolen the citizen's money in the event that tax was owed to California.

Everyone who believes the government is "here to help disadvantaged people" needs to wake up and ask what kind of government we have when due process has been replaced with "legal" looting. R.T. reported the income in question on his 2006 Federal and Arizona tax return. Wouldn't common sense, not to mention common law, suggest that the state of California should be required to ask the citizen who now resided in another state if the income in question had been reported in that state?

How about notifying the citizen of the state's claim and his/her rights to present facts relating to the state's claim?

There was no due process. How can this be legal in a nation that is nominally governed by rule of law? First the state steals the $1,343 and authorizes its parasitic predatory bag-"person" Wells Fargo Bank to steal another $100 for handling the state's theft.

A week or two later the citizen is notified of the theft as a fait accompli. Now the onus is on the law-abiding citizen to attempt to reclaim his own money from a distant, all-powerful Kafkaesque state agency. How can this be legal in a nation supposedly operating under rule of law?

Let's be very clear about what happens here in America on a daily basis:

1. The state (or other agency of government) steals citizen's money without due process.

2. Then, in a move akin to the executioner making the condemned buy his own death bullet, the state authorizes the "too big to fail" corporate bank which received billions in taxpayer bailouts to steal $100 from the citizen for the digital theft of his money by the state.

3. If the citizen needed that money to pay rent, buy medication to stay alive, etc., tough luck, Buckwheat, the state of California has your money before they notify you of the purported tax liability or provide due process or recourse and now you enter the Kafkaesque insanity of pleading for a "refund" of your own money from an agency designed to thwart transparency and the reclamation of your own money.

So if you get evicted and are living in a cardboard box and pass away due to inability to buy your meds, hey, the State of California's political class and special interests could care less: they want your money and the rule of law means nothing to them.

If you understand that a purported tax liability is one issue and due process is another far more important issue, then you understand that we now live in an authoritarian nation where "rule of law" is only invoked at the convenience of the political and financial Elites for propaganda purposes.

The state of California has three basic methods of looting law-abiding citizens:

1. The old "you didn't pay a $25 filing fee, the fine is now $499 which we took from your bank account." Never mind you have the cancelled check endorsed by the state, proving they received it and cashed it; the Board of Kafkaesque Authority claims "we didn't get the check" and loots your account for the $499 (true story.)

2. "Fishing expeditions" where companies and citizens are dunned for taxes and fees they might owe, though there is no evidence they do in fact owe fees and taxes. I received many emails describing these fishing expeditions, for example, merely having a license is "evidence" that you must have unreported income.

3. Enforce all sorts of dubious claims, most importantly:

A. That anyone collecting a pension from work performed while residing in California is liable for California taxes on that pension, regardless of where they live;

B. Any income resulting from something invented in California must be reported as income in California, regardless of where the income is derived from or where the inventor now lives.

In other words, residency has no meaning. Any income remotely connected to California--for example, you had the idea while residing in the state--obligates you to pay California income tax on that idea in perpetuity.

Lest you think this far-fetched, please consider this report sent to me by correspondent J.J.: Will California Gamble in Las Vegas? The Stakes are High in the Gilbert Hyatt Case:

To summarize, the California FTB sued Gilbert Hyatt, an inventor of a microprocessor chip, for tax fraud. The FTB claimed that Mr. Hyatt did not file a return for the income derived from his invention. Mr. Hyatt claimed he was already a Nevada resident at the time he invented the chip; California claimed otherwise. Whether that case has merit is still to be decided and could lead to a recovery of around $50M for the FTB, including penalties and interest, which account for over 80% of the total.

The real issue, however, is the FTB’s misconduct in pursuing Mr. Hyatt in Nevada. According to Bill Leonard, a member of the California State Board of Equalization, as published in his newsletter:


Tax agents rummaged through his trash without warrants, visited business partners and doctors, and shared his Social Security Number and other personal information with the media. This is outrageous behavior and I call on the FTB to rein in their agents. What really galled me is the FTB testified in open court that this level of harassment was only a typical audit. If true, then the stormtroopers are alive and well at the FTB.


Mr. Hyatt sued the FTB for torts and other misconduct. The FTB claimed it was immune from being sued under the doctrine of comity- defined by the Nevada Supreme Court as “an accommodation policy, under which the courts of one state voluntarily give effect to the laws and judicial decisions of another state out of deference and respect, to promote harmonious interstate relations.”


The Nevada Supreme Court sided with Hyatt. The FTB appealed to the United States Supreme Court who ruled 9-0 against the agency.


There are two key questions that the taxpayers of California need answered: were any employees of the FTB disciplined? Will California continue to pour money in this case by appealing in what could be called a hostile environment?

Rummaging through trash without warrants and harrassment is precisely the sort of conduct that occurred when Federal agencies ran roughshod over the Constitution in the COINTELPRO campaigns of domestic spying and subversion.

What exactly is the difference between the jackboot behavior of the California Franchise Tax Board, the Federal agencies that conducted COINTELPRO and any other run-of-the-mill fascist agency doing the dirty work of the Elites and special interests by ignoring legal rights and due process?

It's very simple: either we have due process and everyone is equal under the law, or we have an authoritarian regime that is only nominally democratic for PR purposes.

Naive citizens might suggest alerting our fearless elected representatives to these systemic abuses by the state. This overlooks the fact that the agencies are conducting the looting at the behest of the elected toadies and their owners, the special interests and corporate lobbyists. Your complaint about being legally looted will go straight into the round file (or digital equivalent), and your name forwarded to the "hit squad" for harrassment and worse.

You know the dominant emotion that the government at every level generates in law-abiding, taxpaying citizens? Fear. People don't want their names used in reporting these kinds of outrageous abuses because they've heard too many stories of the COINTELPRO-like harrassment that the jackboot agencies unleash on anyone who dares to question their looting and lawlessness.

Our fearless elected representatives, meanwhile, are too busy brown-nosing their donors to care what happens to mere citizens. After all, the citizens don't fund their campaigns, the special interests do, and the special interests care about one thing: raising more revenue to fund their fiefdoms. They don't care how the state raises the revenue, and so neither do the political lackeys they fund.

What sort of government do we have when the typical response of law-abiding citizens is fear of retribution? When state looting and concerted campaigns of harrassment are "legal," then what sort of rule of law do we have?

Answer: none. The only action that will change things is to vote with your feet and leave the oppressive states where due process has been rendered meaningless and find states where rule of law and equality for all before the law still has meaning.

Are "fishing expeditions" and looting unique to California? Unfortunately not, as author/Iraq vet and midwest resident Chris Sullins reported two years ago:

Last week I received tax return forms in my name mailed to my address by a nearby city government. I've never worked in that city and as the letter states my physical address is not within that city's limits. I've lived at the address for over 10 years and this was the first time I've received such a notice.


I sent this letter in response with copies of the forms they had mailed to my address:




To Whom It May Concern:


My spouse and I recently received City of X individual tax return documents which stated a “return must be filed by April 30, 2010.” This letter you are now reading serves your agency notice that we are not required to file a tax return with the City of X. I will make it clear that we do not work in the City of X. Likewise, the mailing address your agency used to contact us is not and never has been within the city limits. Therefore, you will cease and desist from attempting to collect money outside of your legal authority.


Any future attempts by your agency toward collection of taxes on person(s) employed outside the city or at this address which is outside the physical boundary of the City of X will be considered harassment. Therefore, it would be in your agency’s best interests to remove our names and our address from your tax collection rolls posthaste.


Sincerely, Chris Sullins


I'm sure this overreach was done by the city due to their lower revenues, lost income and property taxes. But, to do this under the color of law is nothing short of official fraud. However, proving official misconduct is another matter. There was no official's name on the forms and I can't imagine I'm going to find a signed memo authorizing this new attempt at collection outside of the city's limits.


In the meantime I wonder how many people who reside on the same road also received the same tax forms? How many of them are just going to fill out the forms and send checks to the city without any protest? How many of them will ignore it altogether? But the important question is out of how many households did anyone bother to write a letter of protest? How many actually told them NO? This last question is the most important when considering the extent of the local MacRib Test.


If enough people don't say No early enough, things often tend to go past the camel's nose in the tent. I can imagine the local city continuing to extend its boundaries in the future and/or performing other actions under an air of legality. I can imagine situations in which cities overreach their boundaries and authority, yet still convince judges or a state administrator (aka bureaucrat) to garnish citizens' paychecks for supposedly unpaid taxes and fines which were never owed in the first place.


This outright theft would continue until the citizen trudges through an onerous Kafkaesque process of "proving" they didn't reside within the city and that the tax wasn't ever really owed. The city/judge/administrator could then play the "oops" game and blame a computer error or some other complexity of the system which they had purposely misused. Of course, the costs for the citizen to challenge such an "error" will be designed in advance to exceed the cost of submitting to the "error" in the first place.


Citizens must box in any attempts by government to exceed its authority. They must frame and contain any acts conducted under the color of law. This does not require violence. The simple act of refusing to comply is enough. This was evident in the many peaceful revolutions that took place in 1989 when people said NO to communism across Eastern Europe. Although governments hold the threat of force in reserve to force compliance, the American government will not use it against the citizens over taxation at this time.

You know what would be refreshing? A state government which openly declared itself committed to rule of law, due process, transparency and respect for taxpayers and taxpaying enterprises. If they followed through on their commitment with action, they would quickly attract a flood of the best and brightest fleeing parastic predatory states that have long since abandoned rule of law for looting and servitude to special interests.


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Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:24 | 2277103 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Personally im still waiting for the 'big one' to get rid of that shitpit.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:02 | 2277227 Michael
Michael's picture

I just thank God every day for the complete and total economic collapse of the USA so those government thugs and their families gets what's coming to them and get exactly what they deserve. I'll laugh my ass off when all their pension money goes up in smoke too.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:27 | 2277295 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

The Californians are already in exodus because the place they created for themselves is Heaven turned into Hell.  Now they are bringing it with them, and when they move into your area you'd better watch out because most of them like nothing better than to step all over Libertarians just like they did in the course of their own state history.  No one ruins wonderful places as well as a Californian.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:33 | 2277323 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

kinda ironic that your name is "fukushima sam."  because right now, what happened in fukushima is pretty much ruining california:


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:16 | 2278022 imaginalis
imaginalis's picture

Hey Troll Magnet, Try to google Rocketdyne

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:24 | 2277445 oldman
oldman's picture


We are seeing these jerks from California land here everyday and they are brutal bastards without a word of spanish or iota of respect for another culture----they demand their rights in loud and braying donkey voices when, in fact, they invited only to be here as tourists!

IUn this South American nation a 'resident visa' is not a right, but a privilege granted to those meeting certain conditions of residency. I came from California twenty year ago and it was very differeny---of course, I had been asked by all of the yuppie boomers to 'get out of here if you don't like it!'.

Anyway, it is galling to have escaped these maniacal shit-eaters only to have them flood a beautiful culture and nation the way it has been flooded by them in the past few months.

Can't you keep them home and away from sanity, please?                om

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:12 | 2278016 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Regardless of what State one is living in, we are living in a lawless country. We are not independent country anymore. We are subjects as it was in the Dark Ages.

The USA is a lawless society. The ruling Zionist elite has a total disregard and disdain for the Law of the land and American people. By controlling/owing the White House, the Congress, the Supreme Court, and the mass media, we are treated like brainless POS with no rights whatsoever. The USA is not a 3rd-world country. It is not a fascist state. The USA became a Mafia state similar to the Russia today.

The only question I have: How far and how long will it go before things will blow up a big time?


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:13 | 2277837 jpmrwb
jpmrwb's picture


You are misinformed. I lived in California and got out just in time. I now live in Idaho and I am a libertarian

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:11 | 2278005 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture


No one ruins wonderful places as well as a Californian.

Hence the term 'Californication', which was coined in the 70's as the Cali Hippies moved into Oregon and other Western States.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:46 | 2278311 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

And here I thought the Red Hot Chili Peppers were responsible for that. LOL.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:11 | 2278619 chipshot
chipshot's picture

what a dick....pinhead sterotype punk with the IQ of a bedroom slipper...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 21:14 | 2278635 DrewJackson
DrewJackson's picture

This has happened with the South from Yankees.   These carpet baggers want to spread thery socialism down here after they ruined their own Cities/States.


It is a disease!!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:27 | 2277302 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

man, i don't wish hardship on anybody but these parasites working for california gov't agencies...they deserve to take a big one up their ass.  here's my story:

i have a home in a decent part of the state.  last year, they sent me a property tax bill claiming that my house is worth $1.3 million.  i went to appeal that shit and told the assessor that if he truly thinks my home is worth that, he could have it for $1.2 million.  hell, i told him, he could have it for $1 million!  the fucker wouldn't budge and told me that similar homes in the area sold for much more recently.  the problem is, those homes never sold because ultimately the buyers couldn't finance.  but still, the assessor argued, that those homes were on the market for so and so and therefore, my home is worth that much.  in the end, they knocked off $500 from my tax bill, so instead of forking over $13,000+ to the city that never does anything efficiently, i ended up forking over $12,500 to "pay for" police, schools and some other bullshit that i nor my neighbors ever benefit from - 4 break-ins in the past year in the neighborhood and zero arrest of course.  

what a bunch of fucking assholes.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:58 | 2277396 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

And you still live there? Get on Mapquest and type in "Texas"!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:02 | 2277406 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Fuck Texas.  That state is currently fishing for taxes on our service company in Ohio. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:05 | 2277415 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

nothing against texas but i don't want to move there.  i have a decent biz here in taxifornia and am trying to milk it as much as possible before i move the fuck out of this country.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:19 | 2277629 oldman
oldman's picture

Hey Troll,

Let's stay friends---please don't come to South America with that attitude; we're full up. The milkers are not wanted here by the locals and they take out on everyone milkers and non-milkers like myself.

You will certainly be welcomed by all if you come here with a lot of money and generosity---yeah, you just give it to those in need. We don't have all the government you have there but we do have government and it is oppressive if you are on it's opposite side.

Come here if you want to do nothing and give your money away. You will be honored and remembered upon your death by all of those who you have shown your natural graciousness.

Take care, my friend                    om

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:04 | 2277808 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

hey oldman,

i have no desire to move to south america.  my eyes are on asia - extremely low crime rates which is very important, pretty decent education system for my kids and lots and lots of beautiful women to look at while i'm sipping on martini.  i've narrowed down my list to 2-3 countries and of course my family loves it over there.  

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:56 | 2277960 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Sensible.  I read too much history to think that South America would be a stable place to raise a family and leave a legacy for posterity.  Asia for me too, Troll.  I left the Golden State in 2010 and will never go back.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 18:00 | 2277974 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Ohio is a bunch of cocksuckers, they send out fake assessments all the time looking for easy revenue. The secret is to have 1 person answer all the calls for the state, and let her have 40 weeks of vacation a year, so they can just hand off the articles to the AG for collection, since you never called... Also, they allow private firms to collet missing tax money, which is a safe and flawless process as well...

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 02:15 | 2293555 ClipperBASIC
ClipperBASIC's picture

Ohio like many states is having financial problems.

One of the newer ideas has been to trick/force people to pay sales taxes on out-of-state internet purchases.

Never mind that the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that states can not collect sales taxes on all such purchases.

Cite: In Quill Corps. v. North Dakota,  504 U.S. 298 (1992); the court specifically dealt with personal property sold in interstate commerce by a seller that did not have a physical presence in the buyer's state.

The states are hurting for money, so honest and ignorant taxpayers are being tossed under a bus.

The newest trick is to somehow get large internet vendors to force people to declare a transaction as either 'taxable' or 'tax exempt'.  Of course, to qualify for 'tax exempt' you must submit an exemption certificate that will be tossed in the round file, unless it's for one of the politically correct reasons.

And guess what!  Declaring that the seller does not have a physical presence in the state therefore under Federal Law, according the the U.S. Supreme Court, the sale is tax exempt--- Well that reason is NOT politically correct and therefore a corrupt multi-national seller will simply refuse to make the sale, unless YOU the buyer bend over and pay an ILLEGAL SALES TAX.



Case in point: Dell Marketing L.P. refuses to accept a completed and signed Ohio Exemption Certificate despite Ohio Laws which state that they have no liability in conection with any potential sales tax once they have received such a certificate.



Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:02 | 2277407 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Fuck Texas.  That state is currently fishing for taxes on our service company in Ohio. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:09 | 2277623 zuuma
zuuma's picture

NO!  Don't type "TEXAS"! California refugees are lefty locusts. You want Dallas to turn into Marin County? You want Pelosi to be your congrescritter from Lubbock?

Want your taxes quintupled, your borders thrown open, your guns banned, your oil rigs shut down, etc..? That's what they like. That's how they vote.

They should STAY there & fix it.

Either that, or take a nice, hard bankruptcy FAIL. Bust the public unions, & de-fund illegal aliens. RESET.


Don't type Texas. Type "Kevorkian"

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:22 | 2277647 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Texas is now filled with Cali wackos my sister said. She moved to Central Texas years ago when it was a nice peaceful place. Now they have a homicide a day and horrible traffic. She's moving further out since she prefers rattlesnakes to Californians.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 22:51 | 2278883 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

Question for TM: How were they able to increase your tax bill like that? Prop 13 prevents this from happening...supposedly. The value is set to a baseline value (the purchase price in nearly all cases) when you buy the house and cannot be raised more than 2% of the assessed value per year, maximum. Since the base tax rate (note: not including special assessments, mello-roos, etc) is 1% of the assessed value statewide, you would pay (for example) $1,000 tax on a $100,000 house. The following year, they can raise the assessment by up a maximum to 2%, so the following year the taxable value goes up to $102,000 and the tax becomes $1,020. Once you buy a home, they can't just come in unilaterally and raise your base tax rate by whatever they want, and the only way the base changes is if you do new construction, improvements, etc.

In 2010 I bought a house here that was valued as high as $1.02M at the peak, for $350,000. It needs a lot of work, but that's the reason why it was so low. Zillow shows the value today at $614,000 (homes in the neighborhood are going for around $500K or so) and I was worried that the county might try to change the base value upon purchase to an amount higher than the purchase price, for tax purposes. This has happened in some instances, even though the law says the county must go by purchase price to set taxable value. There are a couple of "weasel" words in the tax law that allows them to do this in some circumstances, but it's rare. In my case, I breathed a sigh of relief when the tax bill finally came and it was based on my actual purchase price, and not $1.02M!

So I guess my question is, what happened in your case, because I haven't heard of this happening. How long had you owned your house when this happened, and what triggered the assessment increase? Your story, as told, makes no sense to me. I'm not saying it isn't true (anything can happen in this state, for sure) but your details are lacking and the way you describe it, in theory at least, should not and could not happen. More details might make it clearer, though. Not saying you aren't telling the truth, but I'd love to hear more about it.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:28 | 2277306 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

There are two co-workers in my company (mid 50's in age) that were both "peace officers" prior to coming here.  He and his wife also worked some part-time jobs so they could contribute then take advantage of Social Security as well.  Their "pension" fund was cut in half prior to their retirement, hence their working here.  Additionally, since they both had a state-sponsored retirement plan, they could not receive social security payments. 

Sucks to be them.  Both are voting for Romney I believe. Stupid fucks.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:10 | 2277432 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I feel bad for the teachers.  They work hard at making the world better any way they can. I'm sick to death of cops, though.  At least the "law enforcement officer" kind.  Peace officer, if done right, is something altogether different.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:18 | 2277456 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

The lesson I have learned in all of this is that the Government hands that feeds will inevitably bite. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:36 | 2277334 tempo
tempo's picture

I live in So. CA. and most of my friends are Govt employees and teachers. They love their retirement at 100% pay with unlimited health care. What is the problem, the Fed will buy all the Ca unfunded liabilities. For those that live in the South, get with the program. Our motto is "milk the system". The old saying is true, "Its much better to owe the banks millions (billions) than thousands"

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:19 | 2277662 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

The Fed will print another trillion to bail out Cali pensions and many other local gubbermints.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:52 | 2278575 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

Just toss it on the balance sheet my amigo, no problemo!


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:09 | 2277244 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

That would trigger another bailout for uncle warren's insurance companies..  Thank you for playing..

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:14 | 2277260 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

As Maynard says, "Mom's gonna come and wash it all away."

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:26 | 2277296 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+1, Learn to Swim.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:31 | 2277314 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Fucking great song and supurb album

I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and all your demons
I'll be the one to protect you from
A will to survive and a voice of reason
I'll be the one to protect you from
Your enemies and your choices son
They're one and the same
I must isolate you
Isolate and save you from yourself

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:45 | 2278546 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

This isn't happening to only California, other states are finding hook or by crook ways to get money from you to fund whats left of their economies.  Welcome to a real third world.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:27 | 2277111 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Made me laugh.

No, US citizenism means a government serving the best interests of the middle class, not the disadvantaged.

Now, when the environment is getting too small, government or not, it is getting too small.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:40 | 2277148 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

China-bot, you need to go in for reprogramming....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:53 | 2277193's picture

I used to think that the Chinese were cultured and intelligent people. Then this guy showed up.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:04 | 2277232 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Must have been built during the Mao era...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:35 | 2277328 akak
akak's picture

I think he was born during the Great Leap Forward into Stupidity.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:51 | 2277377 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

it's the opium taking effect.  We conquered and enslaved them once with it, it can be done again. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:07 | 2277569 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

China-bot program like fortune cookie!

   Lucky numbers: 3  5 13 46 55

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:07 | 2277247 prains
prains's picture



here kitty kitty, melamine milk for yu!!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:28 | 2277114 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Lesson:  Don't bank with Wells Fargo.  Bank in the state you live within.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:36 | 2277137 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

Beat me to it!  If you live outside California, choose a bank with its HQ elsewhere.  

You lose, Wells Fargo!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:20 | 2277282 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Unless of course you are opening a corporate account and don't want to go through compliance.  Those WF Branch Managers will sign off of on any BS story without documentation to get an account opened.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:03 | 2277609 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Think bank consolidation,  think Dodd Frank.  The regional banks are being devoured by WF, BofA and the other behemoths.  The sheeple are being herded into the financial repression corral for a major fleecing.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:01 | 2277223 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Haha, you don't get it, do you?

The lesson is, don't leave any money in the bank beyond what is needed to pay your bills.  LIMIT how much they can grab.  You can be erased at the touch of a button.

What more does anyone need to know?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:38 | 2277343 Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

Could someone tell me why you need a bank account , mostly because if people did not have one they would have seperation anxiety, there is no other reason.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:22 | 2277466 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Besides as a requirement for employment or that the post office is weird about money orders in the amount of a mortgage payment?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:43 | 2277356 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

this goes for all accounts... 

obviously your mattress is not a suitable place for very much capital, but other assets can be MUCH more difficult to steal.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:30 | 2277489 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

bank local

use credit unions

dont put your money with any bank whose name has been in the newspaper in the last five years

buy a mattress...stuff it full

It's very simple: either we have due process and everyone is equal under the law, or we have an authoritarian regime that is only nominally democratic for PR purposes

as for that statement...has anyone at MF global gone to jail yet?

how about anyone involved with the whole mortgage gate fuckall?

we have have the second option

always have

3 presidents in a row admit smoking the reefer but its still illegal for everyone else

authoritarian regime that is only nominally democratic for PR purposes....winner!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:30 | 2277120 john39
john39's picture

the so called "rule of law" was always an illusion.  people don't get it unitl they have to square off against the government or a big corporation in the legal arena.  sure the little guy wins once in awhile, but usual, goliath wins, one way or another.  and the cost of even fighting is more than most can bear.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:34 | 2277130 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Yes. When fighting legally becomes impossible precisely because of the laws that are fucking you over while at the same time claiming to protect you = insanity.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:34 | 2277133 drink or die
drink or die's picture

If you bank with Wells Fargo, Bank of America, etc, you deserve what you get.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:12 | 2277255 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Caveat Emptor!

If you use small local banks or credit unions, ask them who their correspondent banks are, you could still be "transacting" within a big bad bank network!


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:37 | 2277141 Timmay
Timmay's picture

Obama's fault.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:37 | 2277142 Buzzworthy
Buzzworthy's picture

The rule of "whose law" is the question.  The Founding Fathers had the radical idea that the law could be used to protect the ordinary citizen and enshrined it in the Constitution.  Too bad the powers that be find the Constitution problematic and so they do whatever they can to skirt it for their own selfish interests.  Its difficult to see how this nation can continue on this path without a massive political upheaval.  What will it take before the Sheeple wake up and find they have been skinned?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:29 | 2277487 snblitz
snblitz's picture

The rule of law was tied at the hip to trail by a jury of your peers.  Blackstone called it the most important safeguard of the peoples' freedom.  Notice how the government increasingly has removed your right to a trail by a jury of your peers?  IRS tax courts for example. No peers.

I know our peers are no longer educated enough to be jurors, but imagine the world as it once was:  The government had to find a jury of twelve of your peers to take antyhing from you.  And back then your peers were actually educated in their rights.  utopia lost.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:40 | 2277150 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

from reuters....


"Detroit is in danger of running out of money within the next 60 days due to massive cash outflows, and it does not have the financial latitude to pay off in full the swap agreements that could be triggered by the Moody's downgrade."


Its not just California, the states and cities are toast....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:07 | 2277214 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

"Massive cash outflows"?   Is that what Reuters's euphemism for run away government spending is these days?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:31 | 2277315 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Oddly, there has not been very much chatter in the past year about the muni bond default issue.


From what I am seeing with a few pieces of commercial property here in CA, we are now having a major re-set in their values on the tax rolls. Either the local appraiser has re-set them or we have had to force the issue through 3rd. party appraisals. In either case the tax base is going down on commercial and residential property.


I think that perhaps those folks who were trumpeting the muni bond problem were about 1 year early since they did not quite understand the timing on these things. My guess is that during this year he swans are coming home to roost.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:41 | 2277156 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

This whole stinking shit pile can't reset fast enough.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:37 | 2277338 -1Delta
-1Delta's picture

but ipads will fix this

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:42 | 2277163 pleseus
pleseus's picture

Last month the State of California sent my wife a bill for over $ 500.00 for contested medical expenses from 2008.  She paid the bill not wanting to deal with the harrasment or incurring any furture fishing expeditions by the State Tax Board.  I must say personnally this is this closest thing to tyranny me and my family have faced and I have heard it is happening to more and more individuals and businesses. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:43 | 2277164 jowenchrist
jowenchrist's picture

Was just in the lovely state of CA - how came they say they are broke? they're completing one hell of a fine new airport in Sacramentoville. "Arnol you got some 'splaining to do!"

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:45 | 2277171 The Paucity of Hope
The Paucity of Hope's picture

Old saying: You have a very good case here. Now, just how much justice can your afford?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:47 | 2277173 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

What's sad is that this kind of story NEVER get to the mainstream republicans/democrats so they could wake the fuck up...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:49 | 2277181 Dave Thomas
Dave Thomas's picture

If you think this is unique to communist states like California you're wrong. Even the state of Texas goes on wild and wooly tax liability escapades.

We had a new thing called the "Franchise Tax" passed in 2003, if you make less than 150,000 dollars you don't owe anything.

But somehow the state tends to arbitrarily decide that you've all of a sudden started making millions and decides to send you a bill for $10,000 dollars. At which point you call up and go, "WTF? I only made 105,000 last year, where did you get these numbers?" "Uhh sir we base them on a number of factors."

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:37 | 2277722 Blizzard_Esq
Blizzard_Esq's picture

Just happened to my co-worker. He didn't even bother conducting any business, he simply never started the business and only got a license.

Three years later, he has a bill for $2500 for unpaid sale taxes to the City of LA based on "estimated sales" of $30,000. WTF? He even cancelled his state business license 2 years ago....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:53 | 2277190 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

That anyone still believes in the legitimacy of these organized crime syndicates is where the problem lies.

Consent of the governed. Or as the author of this article (along with Californian Nancy Reagan) says, Just say NO!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:54 | 2277199 CuriousPasserby
CuriousPasserby's picture

In case anyone missed it last time, Big asset-protection rule: NEVER use a national bank. Anyone in another state can seize your account and you have to fight to get it back.

Use an in-state bank (they are [almost] all FDIC insured) or a cedit union. It's easier to fight in local court than in another state.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:36 | 2277512 Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

The FDIC only insures 2 cents on the dollar , and all deposits with big banks are now "loans" so you are not covered any more anyway.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 10:21 | 2280291 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

I recommend the Craft-Matic adjustable bank.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 13:56 | 2277202 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Saw it coming a couple years ago. Nothing surprises me. Government = MF Global.

Bloated Governments desperate for money are going to resort to anything to try to survive. Government workers eager to save their jobs are going to rationalize it. Banks never need an excuse. 

16,000 newly hired IRS agents and shotguns in 2009? Nope... never saw this one coming.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:00 | 2277213 centerline
centerline's picture

+1 gwar. Desperate governments will do desperate things. This is just the beginning. Like so many other things that begin in Cali and work thier way east. It is coming.

Read somewhere that in Greece (I think) they come in after you through the power bill. If you don't play along, no power for you.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:36 | 2277332 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

In NYC it's the water bill, and it's already begun as well.

Got stung for $40,000 for three months' usage, like 50 times the normal quarterly usage.  The building had 4 apt. tenants and a bar (with low-water-usage fixturing).  It was a one-hit and done for the city.  However I appealed but we'll see how far that goes.  I wonder how many other tenants on the block got hit with the same.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:02 | 2277217 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Regarding some of the above comments:  The TBTFs will be the first to vaporize your funds under any bank holiday (most definitely coming); it might take you months (if ever) to get those funds back.  You should be aware that if you have any dealings with the IRS, one of their first questions will be "who's your bank?".  Rule #1: get thee to a credit union.  Rule #2:  maintain a balance sufficient only for Bill Pay; keep either cash or physical in a "safer" place.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:04 | 2277235 centerline
centerline's picture

Rule #3. Don't fuck with the IRS.

Play it by the rules and stay a little on the conservative side when it comes to taxes. At some point the system will fail when too many people are crushed by the weight of the system. The goal is to make it to that point in one piece.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:50 | 2277375 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

This.  I deal enough with the IRS to know that you catch more flies with honey so to speak.  If you ever get reviewed and they find you to have conservatively done your taxes, you're golden.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:58 | 2277598 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

I use TurboTax just like the Treasury secretary, why should I worry?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:02 | 2277225 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Keep talking about government like it's legitimate.    What's legitimate about a group with the monopoly of force that can at it's will and pleasure derive people of their personal property and indeed their very lives?  The whole idea of democracy is silly, if a group of people want to rob someone simply being the majority does not make it right.  This is just a government, like any other, that is desperate for more revenue ripping deeper into the slaves, and with the way things are going the trend is not our friend.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:43 | 2277353 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

"Robbery" is certainly the right word when they can claim that 80% of the money you owe them is because of penalties and interest.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:03 | 2277230 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

If I thought tax collectors were going through my garbage, I would shit in a bag once a week and label it "tax documents".

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:17 | 2277452 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

That's form 1040EatShit for your information.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:06 | 2277241 ouchtouch
ouchtouch's picture

Keep your cash in the U.S. Treasury via  Good luck trying to intimidate them, California.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:13 | 2277256 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Connecticut and New York are bad too but CA is truly the epitome of shit.

I want to thrash CA again but I had my venting session yesterday in Part 1.

Fuck California.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:14 | 2277261 Its_the_economy...
Its_the_economy_stupid's picture

Bullish for shredders.

Shredd itall, solicitations, personal mail....everything.


Then burn it.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:47 | 2277366 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Actually, this is exactly what I do - that shredded stuff is great for starting my brush piles...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:14 | 2277262 jarboejl
jarboejl's picture

My mother (who lives in Missouri) has to pay income taxes on her business in California since it's partnered with UCLA and that's where their LLC is legally located.  They overpaid in 2010, and she is STILL waiting for that refund!!  I told her to re-register her LLC in Nevada so it'd still be close AND she could avoid state income taxes altogether...but the Ivory Tower Liberal UCLA Professor she works with won't have any part of it.  Goddamn, even when things are so obvious, they still won't let go of their ideology.  Geez.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:29 | 2277289 Strom
Strom's picture

It doesn't matter where your company is incorporated. If you do business in California, you have to pay California taxes on the money made in the state. Works that way in most states - at least the ones I've had experience with.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:28 | 2277687 Blizzard_Esq
Blizzard_Esq's picture

Yep. But you have to have a presence in the state of california per rulings from the US Supreme Court which is why has been able to avoid paying sales tax. Albeit California has passed a law trying to collect it anyways, remains to be seen what happens...

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:21 | 2277287 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

As they say, Globalism starts at home............

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:24 | 2277290 adr
adr's picture

i've had cities i live in try to collect taxes for years after I moved. I'll get a letter and send them proof in writing that I haven't lived there in 10 years. A month later I'll get a court summons, an illegal summons since it is sent by regular mail.

After dealing with it for years I went to the court one time. I said, obviously I don't live in the town or work in the town as my home address and the address on my W2 are not within the town. Here are ten years of records showing that I have never earned any income in this town during the entire time questioned.

I left with them saying I satisfied the inquiry. The next year I get another letter claiming I owe taxes again. They always say that non-filing could result in a warrant issued. All you need is for some asshole cop to run your plates while he is bored trolling for revenue and shoot you dead because a warrant was issued for non-payment of tax that was never owed in the first place.

But that's the new USSA.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:55 | 2277385 duo
duo's picture

where is this?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:25 | 2277294 chubbar
chubbar's picture

How many of these "misunderstandings" are the result of illegal aliens pilfering SS#s and using them when they work?

In addition to that comment. Anyone who has taken a look at the Asset Forfeiture laws that are now on the books isn't surprised at all by the actions of the IRS and other gov't agencies. This is outright theft where the burden of proof resides with the person unfortunate enough to be caught with money in their pocket when stopped by the cops. Since the law allows the cops to keep some of the stolen bounty they have an incentive to use the law to steal all the money they can find. Anyone think this is to push us into using electronic currency instead of hard cash? Just bizarre behavior from our gov't. What kind of assholes work in these agencies anyway?

I wrote to my senators about this and of course they both fully support it. Not surprising since one of my nazi senators was the cosponsor to the NDAA legislation. The only thing that may save us is total and complete collapse.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:32 | 2277317 snblitz
snblitz's picture

In 1996 I was robbed by an organized crime syndicate run in Massachusetts and supported by the courts there. It was 10 years later that I even learned of the case I lost in a state I have never been to and have never done business in.

Later I learned that the state or more exactly a certain county is well known for its shenanigans

Romney was in charge of the state at the time I was battling to hold onto my money and I wrote him. No response. Not even a form letter. The organized theft operating within his state and under his authority was not a concern of his.

And for the record I am writing in Ron Paul.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:37 | 2277335 toadold
toadold's picture

You need to check out the credit union or local bank that you use.  I've been screwed by a credit union in the past.  Some of the local banks offer you no protection what so everr if you  get your identity stolen.  Be careful of credit unions that are or were associated with a company that is going or has gone under.  As the lose company employees they try to expand and also get greedy and move into areas of finance  where they have no experience.  I got jamed on a car lease that turned out to financed by a credti union. I had to go to court on them. 

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:37 | 2277339 bankrun
bankrun's picture

Keep physical! And I'm not talking about gold, I'm talking about Tide!

"Law enforcement officials across the country are puzzled over a crime wave targeting an unlikely item: Tide laundry detergent.

Theft of Tide detergent has become so rampant that authorities from New York to Oregon are keeping tabs on the soap spree, and some cities are setting up special task forces to stop it. And retailers like CVS are taking special security precautions to lock down the liquid. 

One Tide taker in West St. Paul, Minn., made off with $25,000 in the product over 15 months before he was busted last year.

'That was unique that he stole so much soap,' said West St. Paul Police Chief Bud Shaver. 'The name brand is [all] Tide. Amazing, huh?'

Tide has become a form of currency on the streets. The retail price is steadily high — roughly $10 to $20 a bottle — and it’s a staple in households across socioeconomic classes."

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 14:56 | 2277391 WTF_247
WTF_247's picture

I am sure if we could subpoena internal documents that a lot of these agencies are using the same tactics of scammers.  Send out 10,000 bogus bills for services never performed to businesses, you will get a certain percent paid with no contesting the bill amount.

The states send out 10,000 letters saying you owe taxes, a certain percent will get paid regardless of whether the person owes or not - simply because people either do not want the hassle or legitimately think they forgot to pay so they write the check.  

This is no different than companies engaging in illegal/shady behavior A because the revenue from A outweighs the fines and lawsuits associated with A.  In the end its a sound decision to do A because it netted you profits you would not otherwise have.


Since no one is ever held to account for doing this it will continue forever.  It is also very difficult to prove pattern of behavior because one cannot get access to the documents proving this was a coordinated effort to defraud.  This is both for businesses and governments.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:00 | 2277400 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

Natural & Constitutional Law

Universe bounty is a given, making supply-side economics, pulling demand forward to horde the future with exponential replication on the assumption of tax base control, a crime against nature, which the resulting majority will choose every time, to float currency downhill.

The primary false assumption rests upon the nature of dissolving the connection between peoples to secure the blessings of liberty for future generations, and government as the means to provide what they cannot provide for themselves. We, The People doing the delegating does not describe the majority. It represents individual sovereignty, aggregated, and is measured implicitly, as preemption is expanded. The only question is timing, when you want the system to blow up, which is a function of easily measured agency intent. What is G as a percentage of economic activity?

Agency always argues scarcity after the fiat, which is when the propaganda begins, as if the supply and demand curves are somehow magically unrelated, and only through its expertise may the problem be solved, because the so stupefied population is simply too ignorant to govern their own behavior. Direction of acceleration at the margin is what you care about. Speed is a derivative. First you see it; then you don’t.

What is the speed of gravity at the time of the bang? Time buys money, not the other way around. Set yourself up to be patient and the empire’s impulse drive becomes inconsequential to your investment strategy. What you care about is the margin. They need a dynamic battery, but if they employ a dynamic system they lose control of energy distribution, which serves to moor the empire status quo, ensuring legacy supremacy through preemption.

The key to fusion is installing delay devices quicker than the speed of current across the associated separation of charge, hence the speed of light, which simply reflects the measuring device. If you think about it, that will solve your battery problem, but it will not solve the tendency of the majority to short it out. Talking is one thing; doing is another. At no time is the universe not aware of your progress, but you may fool yourself at will. The result is fission.

The price of energy enforces consumption patterns, leaving credit expansion ahead of income for disposable income as the root of preemption. Take a look at oil, the Apple channel, and monetary expansion. The scarcity model is playing chicken with itself. As a parent, government may not preempt your sovereignty unless you accept its value system, but you cannot choose your children. Ferry intelligent children to wherever they want to go, to balance the forces and provide for your own.

The universe is a bomb of bombs. Surf the wave accordingly, by compiling the neutral. On the order of the universe, humanity is significant, but not yet substantial. Just leave everything a little better than you found it.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:04 | 2277414 Lmo Mutton
Lmo Mutton's picture

Rule of Law has left the building.

This is Anarchy.  No law.  Anarchy as in when a citizen does not guard his property at all times it will be stolen or destroyed by those that do not heed any laws.

Zombiefest 5.  It is open season man.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:28 | 2277481's picture

Anarchy means "no rulers." If there were no rulers with absolute power to commit these crimes then the problem would not exist. Anarchy is the solution not the problem.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:10 | 2277425 snblitz
snblitz's picture

There was a time when banks stood up to the IRS.

Long ago my banker called me with a seizure order from the IRS.  He said it did not look valid to him so they were going to ignore it.

Fast forward 10 years and BofA could not role over fast enough.  I didn't know the money had been seized by the IRS until the checks starting bouncing.  After talking with Joan (IRS rep) we proved her basis for the seizure was baseless. I got the money back.  A month later more bounced checks and the money was gone again.  We again proved the IRS was in the wrong.  Another month later the money was seized again.  Except this time we had been referred to 'problem tax payer resolution' in San Diego because of our uncooperative attitude.  Again I got back the money, closed the bank account, and shut down the business.

About a year later "Joan" was featured on the front page of the business section of the local newspaper as relatively insane woman who have been reeking havoc with companies all over the local area.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:10 | 2277434 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Case in point:

Small rural village in NW Ohio. Jackboot Police Chief. Gradually infiltrates the entire Village Administration including Finances. Gets a few hapless "entitled" council people in his pocket. Runs off the competent and capable Village Administrator. Gets a puppet promoted in his place. Starts having the Village pay for the Police Department expenses out of different funds to hide the real cost of the wages and the department expenses. Runs off the fiscal officer. Runs the dept whereby no one wants to drive near the very rural Village as many tickets are written every day. Inflates the infraction amount. Speed trap. Signs are ambiguous. Impounds vehicles and charges outrageous amounts to get them out of impound. Self promotes how he is saving the village from "drug dealers". Local businesses verge on bankruptcy. Then he and council stooges get an income tax implemented.

Concerned citizens get a referendum. Concerned citizens get elected. New council starts the work of getting rid of the gestapo. Income tax overturned. Very little funding to run the village properly. Months and months later, some progress has been made. Very difficult to undo what should never have happened in the first place if the system of checks and balances are followed.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:23 | 2277469 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

You'll be happy to know that 1.5 million California state employees carry special plates that make them immune to red light cameras, speeding tickets, parking tickets, and just about any motor vehicle violation.  That makes up for it all.


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:25 | 2277475 flacorps
flacorps's picture

I frequent online bulletin boards like and and For the last couple of years new posters (members) have been appearing there with ten, fifteen and twenty year old matters they thought long resolved that cities, counties and states are suddenly billing them for. Probation long ago finished and fines paid? Whoops, you owed $42 we forgot to collect back then. Utilities turned off when you moved away from your college town and deposit returned to you. Whoops, you still owed $122 and we want it now. Just pray that's all they want and they're not trying to tack on interest and fees, or submitting your drivers' license to be suspended under the interstate compact.

There is no statute of limitations on governmental obligations, and there is no accountability for those who go back through old records and arbitrarily attempt to exact new monies when they are not really owed. The citizen never has records that old, and the city hall can't produce any either ... but their computer entry is enough for them and you know what people say about fighting city hall.

This is how rapacious governments on the verge of going broke raid their couch cushions.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:24 | 2277678 Kali
Kali's picture

Beware when you "cash out" your retirement funds or 401k $$ from unethical employers too.  Waaay back in the 80's, I left an employer for a new job.  They cut me a check for the amount I had due to me, less approx $1500 to pay the taxes on it.  10 years later IRS comes after me for not paying the tax.  Being the pack rat I am when it comes to financial records, I still had the check stub.  Good thing too, the employer took my money and never forwarded it to the IRS, if I didn't have the stub, I would have had to pay thousands more in interest and fees to IRS.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:41 | 2277531 Cake Please
Cake Please's picture

Your bank accounts are not safe, and neither are your wages.  If you owe California money, and they can’t steal it from your bank account, they will garnishee your wages.  And, it doesn’t have to be a tax matter.  My son bought a travel trailer and failed to pay his DMV fees.  He relocated shortly after the purchase of the trailer and his DMV renewal notices were not forwarded to him.  The trailer is parked on remote piece of property that I own and the family goes there to enjoy nature and just hang out.  Maybe the fact that the trailer has never been on the road was the reason he forgot about the DMV fees, but, regardless, he racked up a couple of years of DMV renewal fees and penalties and the State promptly got around to the business of collections.  The DMV notified the Franchise Tax Board about the unpaid fees.  The FTB located my son through his employer (a large telco) and advised his employer that they needed to garnishee his wages so he could make good his on his DMV obligations.  My son’s first notice of his offenses was a memo from payroll advising him of the action being taken.  This memo was delivered through his boss, who had previously held my son in high esteem, but now had to reconsider his trustworthiness since he obviously did not pay his debts.  Long story short, the DMV debt is paid, wages have been preserved, and work reputation is on the mend.  However, that doesn’t make this a happy story.  IT’S A TRAGIC STORY OF GOVERNMENT RUN AMUCK!  THE BASTARDS COULD LOCATE HIM TO STEAL HIS WAGES, AND RUIN HIS WORK REPUTATION, BUT THEY COULDN’T FIND HIM TO TELL HIM HIS DMV FEES WERE OVERDUE!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:49 | 2277553 ddtuttle
ddtuttle's picture

I beleive when you file your registration, you simply say the vehicle has not been nor wil it be on the road, and pay nothing.  Although there may some penalties for not filing such, there might not be any actual registration due.  Good luck trying to prove that.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:17 | 2277648 Cake Please
Cake Please's picture

Tried that when making the debt right with the DMV.  It's called "planned non-operation".  They wouldn't let me do it.  They said I'd have to supply evidence that the vehicle had been demolished, which has not occurred.  It's just parked.  I'm still looking for an out here.  Unfortunately, for reasons I don't fully understand, I go into a demented state when dealing with the DMV.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:58 | 2277594 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

"Answer: none. The only action that will change things is to vote with your feet and leave the oppressive states where due process has been rendered meaningless and find states where rule of law and equality for all before the law still has meaning."

Thats why I expatriated in 2010.  Any expat can tell you that this same harassment and theft is exactly what the IRS has been conducting against expats for decades.  But it keeps getting worse, like a house on a hill in Malibu where each year the erosion gets closer and each year the house slumps more.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 16:41 | 2277730 Blizzard_Esq
Blizzard_Esq's picture

There is some due process here. But after the money is taken. 

According to the Federal tax court people can only contest their tax liability after they pay it. Against the Feds you simply don't have standing in tax court until you've overpaid. 

Against the State, at least in California you are "compelled" to pay. If you want to fight the taking you file a Writ of Mandamus for its return as well as a claim for damages under California Government code claim (900 et seq.). 


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:12 | 2277832 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

"rule of law" is only invoked at the convenience of the political and financial Elites for propaganda purposes"...... LOL


It has been that way for decades....Are you are now just getting it?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:44 | 2277927 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

The State of California Fish and Game raided an auctioneer that had a 40 year business history in the State.He was always careful to check with authorities on selling endangered species list items. He had heard a rumor that California had banned the sale of Ivory by anyone. He checked with authorities a week before the sale when items of antique carved ivory were scheduled to be sold. The authorities were "unable" to give him any information then nor a half hour later when he got a call back from the desk officer who was "unable to find" out anything. Later that day the auction gallery was raided by 20 uniformed officers fully armed with guns drawn and seized all items. The employees were terrified and shaking long after the police left.

The police chief claimed he was in his office when the auctioneer said he called and seated next to the desk officer. The Chief claimed that no call had come in and he was not asked by anyone about the law. The auctioneer however showed the Police Chief his cell phone which indicated the Police phone number and that the call lasted 5 minutes. None the less the police walked off with everything which now will in all likelihood not be returned to the consignors. The auctioneer thought the State was so desperate for revenue for which there is a $1000 fine per item and a possible jail sentence they are cracking down on all laws possible. People caught in the trap pay the fine rather than risk losing in court and having to serve time.

It is perfectly understandable that anything made since the US banned ivory imports would be restricted. Items made over a hundred years or more ago should be exempt. The illegal ivory trade still goes on today as the demand in Asia is strong.

Here is an example of a guy going out of his way to make sure everything he does is legitimate and he gets raided. There is not a ban on selling antique endangered species parts in the US supposedly only a permit is needed. All the major auction houses sell pre 1900s ivory articles. This means in Cal. you can't sell a piano with ivory keys. You can only give it away.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:58 | 2277965 Head_Shots_Work
Head_Shots_Work's picture

Oh damn - I visited kaliffuked once when I was just a young Boy Scout - back in 1973. Do you think they'll send me a tax bill for breathing the air? I might have accidentally brought back some dirt on my boots back also. Do you think they'll try to tax me for that? Isn't that earthquake, like, tomorrow? 322 - 188 days after the last big one? We're all waiting for the black swan to land now.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 17:57 | 2277966 Head_Shots_Work
Head_Shots_Work's picture

Oh damn - I visited kaliffuked once when I was just a young Boy Scout - back in 1973. Do you think they'll send me a tax bill for breathing the air? I might have accidentally brought back some dirt on my boots back also. Do you think they'll try to tax me for that? Isn't that earthquake, like, tomorrow? 322 - 188 days after the last big one? We're all waiting for the black swan to land now.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:11 | 2278169 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

I went to college in Kalifornia.  After college I moved to another state.  4 years later I got a job offer I couldn't refuse so I returned to Kalifornia (something I SWORE I would never do).  Soon after returning I went to the DMV like a good little serf to register my truck.  The prostitute behind the counter informed me that I owed $3800 to register my 2wd, 4cyl, bar bones Toyota.  I asked her if this was a mistake.  I was assured it was not a mistake.  When I asked why it was so much she said "I can't tell you that.".  Then I said "In that case I will NEVER pay you.", "I need to talk to your supervisor."  The super comes out and repeats that they aren't allowed to tell me why the charges are what they are.  Finally, for no apparent reason., he says "The charges are so high because you let your registration lapse for 4 years."  I said "But, I have been living in another state for the past 4 years, why the Hell would I register my truck in Kalifornia when wasn't living here?"  He says  "Ok, you will have to go in that booth over there and write a detailed paragraph explaining that you didn't reside in this state during the time in question.  Be very detailed and give work history and addresses and stuff like that."  So off the the little booth I go.  I worked on the paper for about 10 minutes and then came to my senses.  I got up, crumpled the paper I was writing on up and suffed it my pocket.  An hour and a half later I was full packed and was safely out of Kalifornia in to Nevada on the way home to Colorado.  This was 1997.  I haven't stepped foot in that god forsaken state since.  The story above is just the tip of the iceberg.  Trust me.  Someday I will tell you how I had an arrrest warrant in KA for failure to appear in court for a ticket I never received.


PS Did you know that if you are physically inside of CA for more than two weeks you are required to register your vehicle there? 


You are more free on mainland China than you are in California.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:31 | 2278254 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Cali is in the same class as the PIIGS except the food is not as good (except for Spain).

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 20:09 | 2278421 Trying to Understand
Trying to Understand's picture

In reading all the comments I can only sit and wonder what we, collectively, will think and say when the feds decide to start enforcing all the "new laws" they've put on the books over the last three or four decades that, thusfar, have not been enforces.  Our "local 911 Chief" will become a demigod, with more power than the Govenor....

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 23:46 | 2279152 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

And now, my true FTB story: Purchased a house here in 2002, sold in 2006 and made about $240K profit. Since profit on the sale was non-taxable ($250,000 exemption here), and didn't have to be reported, and I had very little other income that year (well below the filing threshold) I didn't file a CA 540 return. The law states you do not have to file a return if there is no taxable income, so I didn't bother. Fast forward to 2009, I had moved out of the state, and I started getting letters from lawyers to negotiate a settlement for my $26,000 tax bill owed to the state of CA. I thought, WTF? I don't owe CA a cent, how is this possible? I was able to come back to the county I had resided in and I went to the records section at the county offices, and I found the filing for taxes owned (lien statement), which I had never received in the mail. Not one notice, not anything ever from the state, until some time later, I got a notice from the FTB forwarded to me long after it had gone to collection status. The notice made no mention what the liability was from, either. I had to call them to find out.

Long story short, they based the tax bill on what they just pulled out of their ass, as if I had gotten the house for zero dollars, and claimed I owed taxes on the full sale price ($480K). It took many phone calls, letters and lots of sleepless nights to get this monkey (the FTB) off my back. I told them, and they actually agreed, that this should have not happened. And I am quite sure they would have taken the money from my bank account (shoot first, ask questions later) except they had made an error in my SS# and couldn't identify a bank account tied to that SS#! Later, I realized that they had taken this erroneous number from my filing for Homeowner's Exemption, when I looked back at it, a number I had written as a "1" was mistaken as a "7" due to the way I write the number 1 on paper. It was just my good fortune that this happened, because my bank account would have surely been cleaned out. As it was, they couldn't find me due to this error, so they just filed the lien and waited. This was the first and last time I gave my SS# in a real estate transaction, and that is why I knew where to look.

One lesson learned, don't file for Homeowner's Exemption in this state, because they require your SS# on the form (you and your wife's, if you're married) and they will use this info to dun you if they can. It's not worth it to me to save a measly $70 a year off my property taxes for the trouble it can cause. I bought a home back here in CA in 2010 (glutton for punishment, I guess) and I haven't filed for Homeowner's Exemption and I don't plan to, after what I've seen. They less info the state has on me, the better. I paid cash for the house I'm in now, and my SS# is not tied to the house in any way. The title co. tried to force me to disclose it, I just refused. They told me the sale wouldn't close if I didn't give them the number, but I prevailed and it not only closed, there was nothing said again about it when I signed the papers. Since then, if anyone asks for my SS#, I demand to know what it is needed for. If there isn't a legit reason, I will refuse to provide it. Did the same thing with all the utilities, I refused and offered to give them a deposit instead, which wiorked in all cases.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 00:29 | 2279270 TacticalZen
TacticalZen's picture

I've heard all kinds of horror stories about the California tax man.  Mainly how extreme they can be for wealthy people who have made another state their home, but they still retain a house or other real property in CA.  That gets the tax people all hot and bothered - to see if they can somehow prove the people should be considered as permanent residents and collect their 10% income tax.  They talk with the neighbors, go through the trash, all sorts of "KGB" type behavior.  Until and unless a person cuts off all ties with the state they will continue to try to collect revenue.

The best thing to do is to vote with your feet, your checkbook, and what remains of your personal honor.  Just leave.  I did in 1979 and haven't had a single regret.  Moved to Las Vegas, Nevada.  We're like Texas without any water.  We don't have a last call or an "assault weapons" ban.  We have no state income tax, a mandatory "shall issue" CCW law, and generally leave people alone.  We do have former Californians trying to screw up Nevada but so far they have not succeeded.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 11:47 | 2280550 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

Tac, I actually did move to NV during the time I was talking about. Only problem was, I couldn't tolerate the weather there. I was sneezing constantly from dust, I'd wake up in the morning and cough up blood because my mouth was so dry, and I had persistent itching that I just couldn't seem to stop no matter how much body lotion I used. I really wanted to make a go of it, I bought a brand new house there in a great area of NW L.V. and loved the house, and the area. But after some tme, I came to realize I would never be able to adjust to the dryness and lack of humidity. That's why I came back to CA, not because I really wanted to. I wish I knew of some other place I could live that has a CA climate without all the other negatives. But I agree with you, the only long term solution is to leave CA.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 01:32 | 2279425 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

i have received two emails from old college friends in california in the past week inquiring about job prospects in southeast asia and how to start a new life here. one a lawyer and the other a biochemist.

Tue, 03/27/2012 - 17:45 | 2295735 Cheekbones
Cheekbones's picture

This nightmare happened to me as well.  My parents who still live in Calif (I live in London) received bills for $6k, $7k and $9 addressed to me.  By the time I got them I had four weeks to clear it up before a lein would be placed on my still existing Wells Fargo Bank account. They said that - get this - because I had a CPA license in the state, they assumed I was working in the state, and then estimated what my income was and then charged me tax accordingly.  Talk about a stretch!

The worst part is that you can't actually get through to the Franchise tax board.  It took me two weeks of calling (on my holiday) to get an answering machine that took a message and promised to have someone call me back.  I was bounced back and forth between offices (they had different names, guessed at my previous addresses) over the next two month and four months later it was finally cleared up.  I finally spoke to someone bright - there's only two working there!

Lessons - keep filing state returns; and swear off wells fargo

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