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Guest Post: A Primer For Those Considering Expatriation

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Mark Nestmann via Chris Martenson of,


A growing number of Americans are frustrated with the way in which their economy has been managed and are becoming increasingly concerned about future measures the government may take to keep its coffers full.

A question that is arising with increasing frequency is: does expatriation offer a viable protection to those concerned about a more financially-intrusive US system?

The answer is 'yes', it does offer a completely legal solution for ending your obligation to pay US income, capital gains, and gift taxes on your worldwide income. But it is certainly not for everyone and should only be pursued after lengthy and diligent consideration.

And before you begin dreaming of a tax-free future, you should realize that the United States imposes taxes on a broader basis than any other country. The United States is one of two countries, and is the only major country, that imposes significant income, capital gains, gift, and estate taxes on its non-resident citizens.

In virtually all other countries, individuals end their liability to pay income tax after a sustained period of non-residence, generally one year or longer. But to legally and permanently end U.S. tax liability on their worldwide income, U.S. citizens must also give up their U.S. citizenship and passport. This process is called "expatriation."

Yes, it's a radical step. However, if you're a U.S. citizen, you can make nearly all of the preparations for a possible future expatriation without permanently leaving the United States. This is a four-step process: 

  • Phase 1. Relocate your assets from the United States to other jurisdictions, preferably where the assets won't be taxed.
  • Phase 2. Identify foreign countries where you would consider living,
  • Phase 3. Obtain a suitable second passport
  • Phase 4. Expatriate—give up your U.S. citizenship and passport

Once you've accomplished the first three phases, summarized here in Part I of this report, the final step—expatriation—is much easier than if you're starting from scratch. Part II of this report describes the expatriation process.

Are you a good candidate for expatriation? You are, if:

  • You are comfortable living outside the United States, or are already doing so
  • Your spouse and children are comfortable living outside the United States, or are already doing so; and
  • You have already or are capable of shifting the majority of your income and assets outside the United States.
Phase 1: Relocate Your Assets Outside the United States

With a few exceptions, the IRC imposes taxes on both U.S. source income and foreign source income of U.S. citizens. Non-resident, non-U.S. citizens (also known as "non-resident aliens") pay tax only on U.S. source income, although some U.S. sources of income (e.g., most capital gains) are tax-free.

To prepare for this more favorable tax treatment in anticipation of expatriation, begin moving liquid assets outside the United States to more tax-friendly jurisdictions. Begin selling assets that can't be relocated (e.g., real estate) so that you may reinvest the proceeds overseas.

Invest only in countries and investments with which you are comfortable. If you are accustomed to buying and selling U.S. securities, consider using offshore bank or brokerage accounts to target non-U.S. securities. If you are an experienced real estate investor, investigate real estate purchases outside the United States. Keep in mind that a targeted investment or real estate purchase may also qualify you for legal residence in some countries (Phase 2) or even a second passport (Phase 3). If you have substantial domestic investments in precious metals, consider moving the metals offshore.

The vast majority of foreign banks and brokerages now refuse to accept new U.S. citizen clients, especially U.S. citizens resident in the United States. However, banks and brokerages in a handful of countries still accept new U.S. citizen and resident clients and allow them to purchase non-U.S. securities. A few banks in Austria, the Bahamas, Hong Kong, Liechtenstein, Singapore, and Switzerland are suitable for this purpose. The minimum deposits in these banks start at $100,000. Minimum deposits in offshore brokerages start around $5,000. Fees are much higher for banking services and securities trading than in the United States.

Both the accounts you hold offshore and the income derived from them must be reported to U.S. authorities. The penalties for failing to make these disclosures are draconian. Consult with an expert familiar with the tax and reporting rules for international investments when you file your annual tax return.

Offshore real estate is a non-reportable asset for U.S. investors if owned individually or jointly with your spouse or other individuals. Income or gain from foreign real estate investment is reportable and taxable. Countries offering first-world infrastructure and where real estate is relatively affordable include Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Ireland, Mexico, New Zealand, Panama, Spain, and Uruguay.

Numerous potential "land mines" exist in offshore real estate investments. Among them are the lack of a multiple listing service in many countries, difficulty in establishing good title, and legal provisions giving squatters the right to live on your property. Retain a knowledgeable real estate attorney in the country in which you purchase real estate to avoid problems.

You may transport precious metals you own in the United States to another country and store the metals in a safety deposit box, bank vault, or private vault. One option for doing so is to use a secure shipping service. Make certain the service not only promises secure transport but also assists with completing non-U.S. customs and tax declarations. Another option to transport precious metals out of the United States is a like-kind exchange under Sec. 1031 of the IRC. If you move the metals yourself, the best option can be to hire an import agent in the country to which you're taking them to handle the import formalities. You will generally post a bond through the agent covering taxes due (if any) plus the agent’s fee.

Phase 2: Identify Foreign Countries Where You Would Consider Living

Once you give up U.S. citizenship and passport, you no longer have the right to live in the United States. You may generally make brief visits, but in most cases, you won't be able to stay more than approximately four months annually without becoming subject to U.S. tax on your worldwide income based on the IRC's "deemed residence" rules discussed in Part II of this report. Finding another country to live in is therefore an essential part of any expatriation exit strategy.

Even if you have no plan currently to leave the United States permanently, finding a country that you may wish to relocate to in the future is a prudent safeguard. If economic or political conditions deteriorate in the United States and reach your personal breaking point, having legal residence in a suitable offshore jurisdiction provides a valuable "insurance policy."

If you merely want the right to live in another country in the form of a residence permit, but don't necessary want to be physically resident there, a number of countries can accommodate your needs. These include Belize, Costa Rica, Malta, Mexico, the Dutch Caribbean territories, and Panama. In most cases, you can qualify for residence (although not the right to work in the country) by either making an investment or demonstrating a minimum guaranteed pension payment. Residence rights may be purchased in some countries by making an investment of $80,000 or more in real estate or other assets. A guaranteed pension payment of $1,000 or more may also qualify you for residence. In other countries, you may need to qualify on a points system. Some countries have multiple programs to consider. 

Phase 3: Obtain a Suitable Second Passport

To end your responsibility to comply with U.S. tax and reporting obligations, you must give up your U.S. citizenship and passport. Without a second nationality in place and passport in hand, however, giving up your U.S. passport would render you a "stateless person." Avoid this status, as it makes it difficult or impossible to legally live or travel internationally.

A second passport also conveys numerous other benefits:

  • It gives you the right to reside in the country that issued the passport, and possibly other countries. For instance, a passport from a member of the European Union conveys the right to live and work in any other EU country. 
  • It gives you a way to travel internationally if your primary passport is lost or stolen, or if the issuing government confiscates or refuses to renew it.
  • It provides you with the opportunity to travel to countries blacklisted by the government that issued your primary passport. For U.S. citizens, this includes countries such as Cuba, North Korea, etc.
  • It avoids disclosing your primary nationality, should you ever need to keep that a secret. This can be useful if you're ever confronted by militants who oppose the government that issued your primary passport.  

You may qualify for a second citizenship and passport by ancestry, marriage, religion, or extended residence in another country. If not, a handful of countries offer “instant” citizenship in return for an investment or contribution. The Commonwealth of Dominica and the Federation of St. Kitts & Nevis are the only countries with an official, legally mandated, economic citizenship. (Note: Dominica and the Dominican Republic are different countries.)

Dominica is the least expensive option. The nationality law of Dominica authorizes the government to waive the normal requirement of seven years of legal residence to acquire citizenship in exchange for a cash contribution. Total costs including all fees for a single applicant come to about $105,000. Add $25,000 for your spouse and up to two children under 18. The Dominican passport holders can travel without a visa, or obtain a visa upon entry, to nearly 90 countries and territories.

The Federation of St. Kitts & Nevis offers two options to obtain economic citizenship. One option is to make a direct contribution to a charitable foundation set up to support displaced sugar workers: the Sugar Industry Diversification Foundation (SIDF). Total costs including all fees for a single applicant under this option come to about $285,000 or $335,000 for an applicant with up to three dependents.

The second option is to purchase "qualifying property" with a minimum investment of $400,000. Fees and closing costs add a minimum of $100,000. Total costs for a single applicant come to at least $500,000 and close to $600,000 for a family of four. The St. Kitts & Nevis passport provides visa-free entry, or visa upon entry, to more than 120 countries, including nearly all of the 27 member countries of the European Union.

In all cases, applicants must pass a strict vetting process that includes a comprehensive criminal background check.

Bogus second citizenship offerings abound. In recent years, I have received offers to purchase passports from Costa Rica, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic, Ireland, and Lithuania, among other countries. Some of these offers are outright scams. Others involve illegally purchased or stolen documents. Even if you succeed in obtaining a passport on this basis, it may be revoked at any time and you could be subject to arrest and/or deportation.


Once you've completed Phases 1, 2, and 3 of your four-step plan to disconnect from the United States, you're ready for Phase 4: expatriation. While you may never take the final step of giving up your U.S. citizenship and passport, taking the preparations summarized so far at least gives you that option.

In Part II: Important Consequences of Expatriation, we explore:

  • The nuts and bolts of expatriation, including the legal process of expatriation
  • The tax consequences of expatriation
  • The immigration consequences of expatriation
  • The pros and cons of U.S. investments once you expatriate
  • The tax consequences should you choose to spend more than a few months each year in the United States after expatriation

Click here to read Part II of this report (free executive summary; enrollment required to access).


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Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:12 | 2281388 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

only pussies run

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:20 | 2281400 Waffen
Waffen's picture

pussies fled and founded our country

pussies fled to conquer the west

sometimes a fight is unwinnable

i have my eye on Uruguay, if I had more capital that is


More realistically I am hoping my fellow Texans have freedom blood still flowing in their veins.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:23 | 2281431 adr
adr's picture

Do Texas have enough Freedom Blood to kill 75 million blacks and hispanics? That is about what it will take.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:47 | 2281533 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

trav that you?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:24 | 2282200 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Nice avatar who are the girls?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:21 | 2282320 Xkwisetly Paneful
Fri, 03/23/2012 - 04:29 | 2282776 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

This is total fucking drivel. If you're going to post a link kindly make it worth reading.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:37 | 2283622 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

So it is right up your alley.

Want drivel read 90% of below.

Delusional fucking imbeciles to the 10th degree.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:48 | 2281534 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

plenty of freedomblood, just not enough ammo. Let's hope it dose'nt come to that,

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:28 | 2281725 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Thank you for the lasting image of a fat Texan attempting to chase down everyone at the u-haul corner.

Also: Joe Arpaio is a fascist fag.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:26 | 2281443 anarchitect
anarchitect's picture

The problem with Texas is immigrants diluting the historical attitude of independence. And no, this isn't a swipe at Hispanics, but rather at immigrants from other states. Same thing in New Hampshire. The "Live Free or Die" state, with its low taxes, is being invaded by people from Massachussetts.  The problem is that they don't leave their stupid political views behind, the kind that fucked up the places that they left.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:57 | 2281570 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Same thing with Nevada.

Californians have brough their tort lawyers, govt. dependancy and love of regulation to what was once a libertarian paradise.

Once they get an income tax on the ballot bye bye Nevada

How do you think Harry Reid keeps getting elected?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:29 | 2281734 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"How do you think Harry Reid keeps getting elected?"

Repugnicant opponents.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:25 | 2282332 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

WOW real close.

Unionized casino workers and repugnicant candidates are very. very close,

if one inhabits imbecileville.

But thanks for playing.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:49 | 2282031 seek
seek's picture

Same in Arizona, but interestingly getting Californicated triggered a republican backlash. The state is actually pretty libertarian and in my opinion has become more so, but the influx of Cali immigrants definitely polarized things. I can't remember any time in my history (which goes back through the 70s) things having been as polarized -- but at the same time, I can't remember the state being more free on many levels (constitutional carry, medical MJ, etc.) than today.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:22 | 2282323 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Barry is rolling over in his grave.

What the OP posted is right on the money in both AZ and NV.

How's that monster libertarian sales tax working out?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:16 | 2281681 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Sorry, but NH isn't that cheap unless you own a shack. There is no sales tax but they make it up on real estate taxes.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:19 | 2281689 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Depends on the area.

Property taxes are comparable to where I live now and in some areas far lower.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:30 | 2281741 anarchitect
anarchitect's picture

Sure. Property taxes in TX are high too.  But it's easier to fix something at the local, rather than the state, level.  And let's not even talk federal.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:02 | 2282284 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

The entire south is being overrun with northern scum. They turned their former states into sewers then relocate elsewhere and begin the process of destroying wherever they go to.

They are the socio-political equivalent of bubonic plague carrying rats.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:12 | 2281650 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture



You just have to seek value, and to do that you need timing. For instance, it is said that one ounce of gold could buy you an entire block in Berlin during their inflationary experiment.  Right now, property in Ireland is VERY cheap, and they even speak a dialect of English.  

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:57 | 2282387 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Irish property is not very cheap...yet.  

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:16 | 2281981 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

It seems that the great goldbug guru Jim Sinclair, is himself announcing his own international expatriation plans (He currently lives in Connecticut). Jim posted the below on his Mineset site today, repeating the classic 'three flags' advice of the grand-dad of investment newsletter writers, Harry Schultz (in his 80s, and living now in Europe in tax-free Monaco):

« According to Dean Harry Schultz, the way to live your life involves the following:

- Money in one country
- Citizenship in a different country
- Body in another country where neither your citizenship nor money resides.

I have resisted this sage advice from Harry for many years knowing that the day might come when his genius proves true.

That day has come.

Seriously consider this advice.

Jim »

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:06 | 2282060 neidermeyer
neidermeyer's picture Plenty of options ,,, pretty ladies , they have a stable currency that is not debt burdened ,, lifes a beach... English is widely spoken... last time I was there you could buy Gold cheaply at the pawn shops (they mine a bunch there). Also as of 2004 the Philippine code no longer requires that you renounce your US citizenship when you gain Philippine citizenship.

And perhaps best of all , The Phillipines is the only country in the world where drinking and driving is perfectly legal.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 07:57 | 2282874 The Real Fake E...
The Real Fake Economy's picture

you fail to see the point then.  US is 1 of only 2 countries in the world that will tax you on any income you earn, no matter where on the planet you live.  by expatrioting, you can tell uncle sam to take a hike.  

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 10:16 | 2283224 Davalicious
Davalicious's picture

> The Phillipines is the only country in the world where drinking and driving is perfectly legal.

I live elsewhere in Asia. Drinking and driving isn't recognised or tested here. There are a lot of developing countries with the same situation.

I love the Philippines. But they are in a nose dive at the moment. Politically, who knows what is going to happen there. Some of my Filipino friends have shifted to New Zealand.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 21:04 | 2285699 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

Philippine residence: recommended.

Philippine citizenship: consider that many Philippine laws are copied from the US, including taxation on worldwide income.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:42 | 2282364 Jim Cramer
Jim Cramer's picture

Yes we do. I talk to more and more Texans who want our freedom and to deny responsibility for other states irresponsibility.

I do believe the populace of this state harbor enough ammunition to take care of business if we had to.

Plus we have Rick Perry........./sarc

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:31 | 2281468 e-recep
e-recep's picture

me thinks you work for IRS.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:10 | 2281647 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

You are what you eat.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:58 | 2281814 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

Count me as one Happy frickin pussy then. Second passport is on the way soon. And speaking of pussy plenty of good stuff down here.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:14 | 2281848 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

THEY LEFT OUT A BIG DETAIL: if you have some money/assets (I believe 2 million is the threshold) YOU HAVE TO LEAVE 30% of everything at the door before leaving.

You think they will let you go before you pay your “fair share” of the debt???


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:38 | 2282228 smiler03
smiler03's picture

I believe that is specifically on property only.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 00:19 | 2282623 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

All unrealized capital gains @ ordinary rate...the exit tax.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 19:49 | 2282129 Curt W
Curt W's picture

when they left europe for the americas, they were fleeing government oppression and taxes, not sure where to go now.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:27 | 2282207 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Do you really believe that the US will be the same in a hundred years or less.  I will tell you what will happen.  We will break up or balkanize into 5 to 7 regions and those areas will become their own country.  In a sense the grand experiment would have failed and whats left is a broken country that fooled itself into thinking that you can be intolerant and still be unbiased, BS. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:04 | 2282289 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

I certainly hope so, its the only alternative left to war and the sooner the better.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 22:37 | 2282397 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I have either lived in, visited, and/or worked in more than 40 states and more than 10 countries.  The grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence.  Why do our minds work that way?  I do not know.

Here in Texas we elect men like Ron Paul.  We grow money managers like Kyle Bass.  We know how to get oil from a turnip.  We are a net food exporter.  We have a history of sacrifice for independence.  We accept risk taking and failure as natural.  We may just have a chance.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 22:39 | 2282448 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

True enough- but you also elect people like W, Perry, and Hutchinson and a congressional delegation that folded like lawn chairs on the debt ceiling and NDAA.

Send more steers please. ;-)

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:39 | 2574583 marathonman
marathonman's picture

As a fellow Texan this comment is incredibly painful but true.  The truth sucks sometimes.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:14 | 2281395 EmileLargo
EmileLargo's picture

Emigrating is a hell of a lot harder than people think it is. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:23 | 2281432 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

No! It Isn't!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:45 | 2281519 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Living and settling in other countries can be quite easy ... We Europeans do not think of it as difficult at all, even when we prefer 'home' here.

Of course it can be hard if you are totally broke, and have no starting seed money, especially if you have to make arrangements for family and children with you.

But with modest capital, it is very doable. There are actually large numbers of Americans who have escaped over here to Europe, very quietly. You run into them every now and then, it seems another of those 'hidden' stories. No doubt US media does not want to cover how many people have picked up their marbles and happily hit the exit door.

Chinese people who have saved money are arriving in the old Communist Eastern Europe ('everything for sale'), meeting a 'friendly' immigration lawyer who knows some 'friendly' government officials, and quickly becoming EU citizens, giving them the right to live and work anywhere in Europe. - This is true in much of the world. You go there, make connections and friends, you find a way to stay there. - If the Chinese can do it, so can people from America etc.

For Americans with modest capital, you have the 'Dutch-American friendship treaty', you pop around 10k into a Dutch bank account, start some 'business' ... 4 years later you are a Dutch EU citizen. Of course this takes 50K or so to support yourself for 4 years, more with family. - Nearly everyone in the Netherlands speaks good English, to make it easy for you.

For most European-type languages, it takes about 500-1000 hours of work to speak and read it with some halfway competence. Most basic vocabulary is around 2000 words. Once again, doable if you are not lazy.

Beyond that, what is needed is flexibility, a lack of arrogance, a willingness to get along with your neighbours, an open mind.

People from the far corners of the world with little education and capital are emigrating and making a great life for themselves, at times very quickly ... people sometimes who have little education or resources.

Start-up emigrating seed money for yourself and family, is your main hurdle. Aside from that, emigrating is not hard at all.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:46 | 2282246 smiler03
smiler03's picture


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:30 | 2282338 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Def need that lack of arrogance!

Going from 950SQ ft to 450 SQ FT,

and relying on mass transit instead of one's own car,

def requires putting that arrogance on the back burners.

Afterall get free substandard medical care, oh wait it is superior to US care it is just that Euros fly to the US daily for advanced care while the inverse never, ever happens.

BTW can get free medical care in  the US too, just move into a home half the size, sell one car and use the proceeds to fund a medical account.

If only, if only all the idiotic moronic wannabee Euro, American trash would just move there instead of turning the US into yet another euro liberal socialist shithole characterized by massive governance stifling anything and everything.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:30 | 2281742 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Highly variable; completely dependent on where you want to go and how much loot you have on hand.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:17 | 2281403 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:17 | 2281854 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture


Technically any one of the 50 states of the union are foreign and outside of the "United States"....... Now good Luck getting the judiciary to pay attention to this fact... it is a convienient trillion Dollar taxing oversight .( source cited below)

These are the Definitions taken directly from the US Code which of course makes the theft  legal... Not their fault if 300+ million americans dont know where they live. 

 § 927. Other definitions and special rules

(d) Other definitions

(3) United States defined

The term "United States" includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.


§ 993. Definitions

(g) United States defined

For purposes of this part, the term "United States" includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico and the possessions of

the United States.


§ 3121. Definitions

(e) State, United States, and citizen

For purposes of this chapter -

(1) State  

The term "State" includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa.

(2) United States

The term "United States" when used in a geographical sense includes the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, and American Samoa. An individual who is a citizen of the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico (but not otherwise a citizen of the United States) shall be considered, for purposes of this section, as a citizen of the United States.


§ 3306. Definitions

(j) State, United States, and American employer

For purposes of this chapter -

(1) State

The term "State" includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.

(2) United States

The term "United States" when used in a geographical sense includes the States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands.


§ 4121. Imposition of tax

(d) Definitions

(3) United States

The term "United States" has the meaning given to it by paragraph (1) of section 638.


§ 4132. Definitions and special rules

  1. Definitions relating to taxable vaccines

(7) United States

The term "United States" has the meaning given such term by section 4612(a)(4).

§ 4612. Definitions and special rules

(a) Definitions

(4) United States

(A) In general

 The term "United States" means the 50 States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, any possession of the United States, the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands, and the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands.

(B) United States includes continental shelf areas

The principles of section 638 shall apply for purposes of the term "United States".

(C) United States includes foreign trade zones  

The term "United States" includes any foreign trade zone of the United States.

§ 4662. Definitions and special rules

  1. Definitions

(2) United States

The term "United States" has the meaning given such term by section 4612(a)(4).

§ 4672. Definitions and special rules

(b) Other definitions

(2) Taxable chemicals; United States

The terms "taxable chemical" and "United States" have the respective meanings given such terms by section


§ 7651. Administration and collection of taxes in possessions

(2) Tax imposed in possession

(B) Applicable laws

All provisions of the laws of the United States applicable to the administration, collection, and enforcement of such tax (including penalties) shall, in respect of such tax, extend to and be applicable in such possession of the United States in the same manner and to the same extent as if such possession were a State, and as if the term "United States" when used in a geographical sense included such possession.

§ 7701. Definitions

  1. When used in this title, where not otherwise distinctly expressed or manifestly incompatible with the intent thereof -

(9) United States

The term "United States" when used in a geographical sense includes only the States and the District of Columbia.

(10) State

The term "State" shall be construed to include the District of Columbia, where such construction is necessary to carry out provisions of this title.

[Code of Federal Regulations]



Sec. 1.911-2 Qualified individuals.

(g) United States. The term ``United States'' when used in a geographical sense includes any territory under the sovereignty of the United States. It includes the states, the District of Columbia, the possessions and territories of the United States, the territorial waters of the United States, the air space over the United States, and the seabed and subsoil of those submarine areas which are adjacent to the territorial waters of the United States and over which the United States has exclusive rights, in accordance with international law, with respect to theexploration and exploitation of natural resources.








Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:27 | 2281996 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

US people often get attached to these internet memes of 'magic legal words' that somehow give you 'rights'.

As the lawyers in America laugh and sometimes tell you, the law in the USA, in practice and reality, is not what you see in the text ... American 'law' is whatever the US judges (bribed and corrupted) say it is ... which can be directly the opposite of the words in the US Constitution, or any law on the books.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:40 | 2282356 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Hilarious, gun ownership is a right all the while the union makes sure everyone knows it is a priviledge.

Great guffaws reading your material here, can live like king or deluded yourself and suck hind teat.

Not debatable in the slightest. The US poor are in the top  1% of the world, nowhere else are obese people who own homes and cars considered "poverty stricken" but keep believing/posting otherwise and pretend the Americans are the brash arrogant ones.

People are not dying immigrating to Europe on a daily basis for a reason.

oddly enough they do die daily coming to the US with lint in their pockets barely speaking english and yet somehow they find opportunity and become tax paying citizens, small business owners etc.........that not happening anywhere else in anything remotely close to the numbers it happens in the US for the sole reason of lack of opportunity but you just keep pretending otherwise.

A non German speaker landing in the middle of Berlin has about as much chance of making it  as a snowball does in hell, not one teeny bit different in any other Euro including Norway.



Thu, 03/22/2012 - 22:41 | 2282454 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

US poor are in the top 1% globally?

You may want to reconsider that math.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:39 | 2283639 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Really? Half the world exists on $2/day it sure is fun to play pretend though.

Plug that into a normal distribution and then toss in the US poverty income rate and tell us that is not in the top 1%.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 23:00 | 2282490 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

"People are not dying immigrating to Europe on a daily basis for a reason."

Not to pile on, but.....

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 08:49 | 2282988 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

Millions of third world people have been turning up in UK and EU generally with only "lint" in their pockets since 1945, many are doing just fine. Dont know what your talking about.
Concerning another silly point of yours: Americans and others do not go to Europe for medical facilities very much because it is mostly a public sector service there.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:43 | 2283662 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

You people must take an inordinate amount of drugs.

There is just no other plausible explanation.

Yea it is a silly point, folks fly from all over the world for US healthcare they don't for Euro healthcare even though they used to before it became nationalized completely devoid of anything remotely leading edge.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:19 | 2281411 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I worked an an expatriate for 10 years outside of America. There are some decent places if you have money but it's not all milk and honey. Better to stay here and fight the beast. 

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:02 | 2281589 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Then you know that you do not need to give up your US citizenship.

All income derived from work in a foreign country allows you almost a $90k deduction. Add the standard deduction and your 3-4 dependend deductions and you are tax free on your first $120k. Plus you don't pay any serious tax on the next $30k and you do not have to pay SS tax.

What's the reason for giving up citizenship? the only restriction is that you can only be in the US for 35 days per year So what?

One more added thing. Since your foreign employer does not have to issue a W2 or report your income, declare less than $120k if you are making more.

Be brave and do it if you want. you be flying in six months time.

First step: Find a job overseas. English native speakers have a good chance in some countries. Check expat community web sites 9in the country you prefer.

That's all you need to know. over to you.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:09 | 2281638 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

You may be liable for taxes in that country however. In many countries, you can be in and out as a perpetual traveller and pay taxes nowhere. Just take a trip somewhere every 90 days. US passport also helps since you do not need visas.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 19:04 | 2282054 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

This is not true. There are only about 15 countries you can enter with a US passport without a visa.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 22:04 | 2282379 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

But not too many countries deny visas to US passport bearers.

Currently, 36 countries participate in the Visa Waiver Program, as shown below:

Andorra Hungary New Zealand Australia Iceland Norway Austria Ireland Portugal Belgium Italy San Marino Brunei Japan Singapore Czech Republic Latvia Slovakia Denmark Liechtenstein Slovenia Estonia Lithuania South Korea Finland Luxembourg Spain France Malta Sweden Germany Monaco Switzerland Greece the Netherlands United Kingdom


Besides the visa waiver countries there are at least another 100 for which no visa is necessary for Americans.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:57 | 2282385 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Uhh, not true.  I know you can go most European countries without a visa.  Japan and Korea too I believe.  RIGHT NOW I am in no visa necssary Peru.

Peru, my Peruvian-American wife just informed me the other day, is NOT an option anymore for any exfiltration, ah well...


I just put up ¨Some bearings we sell in Peru¨up at my blog.  gmail me at my name or just use Google to find the article.  Nice bearing pictures!

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 07:56 | 2282870 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

You make a good tangential point about a foreign spouse.  When I married mine, people said "Oh, is she going to get a green card?"  I said "No, I married her so I could get a green card to her country."  This was in 2003.  People looked at me like I was from they're asking me if she has sisters.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:21 | 2281415 espirit
espirit's picture

You would also give up any "entitlements" such as SS and Medicare if you run.  Better to collect first, then move.

PM's in a secure vault or storage facility? That's a good one, might as well be in paper.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:23 | 2281433 5880
5880's picture


the NPV of those are huge

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:28 | 2281450 anarchitect
anarchitect's picture

I don't think you give up Social Security.  Of course, that's assuming that it'll still be there, or that it won't be means-tested away.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:48 | 2281538 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Older Americans here, have told me directly they are collecting their Social Security cheques ... and talk about how it is much cheaper to live a good life here than in the USA.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:47 | 2281528 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

>>>>>You would also give up any "entitlements" such as SS and Medicare if you run.

Like there will be any left? Especially after the laws they're passing for asset seizure. HAAAAAAA

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:21 | 2281421 adr
adr's picture

It looks like it isn't a problem if you have over $100k in cash sitting around. Then again if you have more than $100k in cash sitting around you probably aren't worried about much and probably already have a few foreign bank accounts.

How about writing how a married 35 year old couple with two kids and $50k in cash can get the hell out of America.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:19 | 2281691 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Depending on youth and education level, you have legal immigration routes with jobs, in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, via their immigration-points-criteria systems.

Otherwise, you may need to do what many people in the world do ... one of you moves first to get settled, get legalised, and find work ... then you bring the rest of the family over a little later. See also my post above with some more details.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:43 | 2281924 oldman
oldman's picture


speaking honestly, countries who are willing to accept the liabilities of the family above, most likely would not be desireable.

Australia, New Zealand, and many others would accept this family if it had something special to offer the receiving country.

You would have to work and pay taxes and accept the ways of others, however.

good luck      om

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:44 | 2282366 Shaktipalooza
Shaktipalooza's picture

We are a couple with two small kids who moved to Asia about two years ago. We are all US citizens and have lifetime, visa free entry (no work permits necessary) to live in a third country. I think the article deals a little too much in renouncing a US citizenship. That's something you should probably wait for after years of living abroad before making such a decision.

Having a young family does require extra planning and more stringent criteria. We weren't about to move our lives to the other side of the planet without a guaranteed source of income. In the end our move ended up benefitting us more financially than if we'd stayed in the US. 

Unless you're independently wealthy, the number one goal for most people intending to move abroad (especially if you have a family) is to have a profession that will compel companies to hire you. Working for a multi national corporation helps immensely.

Many of the expats I know and meet in Asia fall into two categories.

There is the younger crowd, usually just out of college, that comes here to teach english. The pay isn't fantastic but a frugal person can easily save some money and have some great experiences. It's not a path that would support a family but I do occasionally see teachers find other job opportunities arise from the connections they make.

The other category is the expat with a highly desirable skill set. They find their jobs before they move. The companies pay for their move, most often their housing, kids educations, bi annual flights home, nannies, etc. The companies bend over backwards to make sure the wife is taken care of. Happy wife, happy, productive employee. These people are often posted for only a few years, long enough to set up operations and go home. Why? Because it's damn expensive for a company to pay all these perks.

We chose a slightly different route than the one above. My spouse came over as a local hire but negotiated aggressively and came up with a great pay package. You always have better leverage when you're already in a good job. We don't get the housing, flights, etc., but we also don't have a time limit on when we have to come back to the US, ever. Visa's, resident permits, everything was handled by our sponsoring company. On a side note, the company did pay for our international move. Having a house full of people do all the work while I stood there with a checklist was far easier than if I'd moved across the street in the US.

Nearly two years into the move my spouse and I often talk about this being one of the best things we've ever done. There is a hell of a lot of opportunity in Asia, currently far more than in the US.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 08:02 | 2282879 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

You're exactly right.  About Asia and the wife being happy especially.  I worked it so that part of my contract is that my employer buys me a new house every 10 years as long as I continue to work here.  That leaves me extra to finance my lakeside villa (first) and a ski lodge (second).  I am not, like, a nuclear engineer or anything but of you're smart and work hard all this can SERIOUSLY be yours.  It MYSTIFIES me why people aren't beating down the door for my job...I'm gonna shut up now.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 10:08 | 2283208 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Look at Fiji or Colombia. In Fiji, a $50k investment in land or home (even if financed) grants you permanent residency with the option to convert it to citizenship. In Colombia you can get residency if you can open an account worth three times the basic salary (about $18k). You can find land or real estate in all price ranges, from a $20k apartment to a $500k home by the golf course in a gated community. Costa Rica, Belize and Chile also have very reasonable entry points.

Please consider that you do not pay US taxes on the first $85k of foreign income and that $85k will take you a hell of a lot further in South America or the Pacific than it does in the US.

The key is not really the initial entry point, it is the labor market. If you can find a way to earn a decent income outside of the US, the rest is not a barrier.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:21 | 2281425 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

A few million truly concerned citizens marching on DC can make a difference. But it has to be a movement and it can't be "oh but I'll lose my job if I go". Sacrifices have to be made and the movement has to be large enough to get the critters in congress peeing in their pants. We're not going to take it anymore

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:51 | 2281554 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

Time to refresh ye'ol tree of liberty...

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:26 | 2281715 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Don't know about the 'million persons marching' business working in America.

Have read stories of Americans reporting that, in recent decades, even when several hundred thousand people have shown up in DC for these events, the media just pretends they aren't there, there's a little news footnote with lying numbers, saying that '30,000 people came and demonstrated for a day', and it all withers into nothing.

And besides, isn't that what's happening now with Occupy Wall Street? People out there in significant numbers, getting busted and arrested, beaten and tormented by police? While the gatherings themselves are partly infected with bribed provocateurs and police agents?

The American oligarchs have the corporate media and the CIA's Wikipedia to make sure what they want to have ignored, stays ignored by most people.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:15 | 2281849 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

pretty obvious that "mass protests" in the streets don't have the same effects they used to - the State has anticipated and adapted to this form of protesting, as you point out - no media, unless there are injuries, and they have all sorts of fancy new weaponry & gadgets they're just dying to use - "make my day, protester!" - why feed their machine?

best to educate yourself, learn how to inform others in an effective way - ie, in a way that is increasingly palatable for those new to the "story" and not just dumping a lot of information you've gathered over time - build community, trusted individuals around you, and become as self-reliant as you can. . .

if you can't or won't "leave" then work towards being as autonomous as possible. . . just my opinion.

(great points upthread on making a move - made me nostalgic. . .)

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:39 | 2282358 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

I know its ancient history but you may want to search for 'bonus marchers' and see what happened when thousands of veterans turned up in DC to demand what they had been promised by our benevolent leaders. Take to the streets? In Amerika? Takes guts - sadly lacking these days.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 22:51 | 2282469 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Well, part of the problem with OWS is that theyre mostly idiots who want to fix our horribly screwed up system by giving more power to the same government bureaucrats and regulators that got us here.

Their strategy of "Fight The System by Further Empowering The System" is only taken seriously by the openly statist/authoritarian wing of the left in the US which is composed mostly of pseudo intellectual urban fools.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:22 | 2281426 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

i like Chris, here's a teaser then...ENROLL :)))

Dear Chris,

any decent website offers these "services" for free, even the US gov site does that too! Pathetic way to get "clients"!


An Expat!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:55 | 2281562 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

And don't forget another ZH favourite - Simon Black! The Sovereign Man!

Seems like selling 'Getting Out of the USA' packages is one of the few truly growing businesses out of America ...


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:17 | 2281855 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

someone anticipated a niche market, eh.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:24 | 2281437 Andrew G
Andrew G's picture

Countries offering first-world infrastructure and where real estate is relatively affordable include Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Ireland, Mexico, New Zealand, Panama, Spain, and Uruguay.

Real estate in Australia/Canada/NZ is "relatively affordable"? Better revise that sentence Chris...

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:31 | 2281464 anarchitect
anarchitect's picture

Lots of places in Canada are reasonably affordable.  But yes, Vancouver and Toronto are megabubbles, and most areas will probably see at least something of a correction.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 19:09 | 2282064 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Australian real estate is insanley over-priced.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:26 | 2282204 edstar
edstar's picture

Agree. I live in Sydney. The cost of living in Australia is very high (housing, food, travel). 

Taxes are relatively high reflecting good government benefits (education, medical, social security).

Wages for low level jobs (waiter, shop assistant) are high (eg $17 per hour, double on Sundays).

I like it here, but one should definately do their research before moving anywhere! It should not for exaqmple be lumped in the same sentance as Argentina. They are as different as chalk and cheese.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 10:59 | 2283422 smiler03
smiler03's picture

deleted, I didn't engage brain before typing....

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:31 | 2282343 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

P.E.I. and New Brunswick are both dirt cheap by comparison.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:24 | 2281438 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Good advice, but I sill can't believe it's come to this.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:27 | 2281447 Village Smithy
Village Smithy's picture

He should have included the fact that there are some medical procedures that are required. The first is called an IRS colonoscopy.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:45 | 2281452 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture



Best be early, not late

If you want to expatriate

Best move I ever made

42 years ago

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:32 | 2281454 dumpster
dumpster's picture

into a different t fire from a frying pan

look  into  eastern washington  spokane area .. idaho  pan handle , wyoming , montana , utah//   Fairview lots of water, power, yadda

many places will be okay in my opinion // just step away from the population centers .. .. lots easier for the average person .. and familys ..

and 42 years ago person  .. you were how old with how big a family ..

apples to oranges


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:37 | 2281457 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Dear Americans,

Canada is very close has plenty of space, lots of resources, water, bacon, maple syrup, hockey, a wide open border and plenty of wilderness to hide in. We welcome hard working english speaking brothers from another mother. The NWO is having trouble taking over Canadian politics 1. due to our paper ballots and retireees who count them. 2 They chose Harper who is an asshat.

When shit hits the fan head north we will do our best to accomodate you.


The Great White North

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:55 | 2281567 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

take off, eh?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:07 | 2281628 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

You have no idea what this is aboot, ya hoser

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:14 | 2281665 Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:59 | 2281817 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

in canada the nwo has penetrated even deeper than elsewhere.   multiculti fembo emasculated anti gun regulation to the nth.    canada is like california except we have more water and resources.   otherwise we are just as bankrupt.  I have no problem welcoming some ZH'ers but really nobody wants the people that fucked up their own country to come fuck ours up...    My message to is stay the fuck where you are and fix your problems because the problems will get bigger and just follow you.  

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:31 | 2281900 GoldenGal
GoldenGal's picture

We didn't feck up our own country dogbreath the ahhemm British Monarchy ( you know that ugly biatch you put on all your currency and gold and silver coins to boot) runs America through our President of america(notice, I don't say our American president) and her likes with the Rothschilds et al are what is fucking up our country. Oh , I do agree in that we are somewhat to blame in our apathy , but then when the nwo is poisoning our water supply with flouride, putting bisphenola in canned goods , chemtrails and numerous other insundry acts to dumb us down, I don' think we fecked it all up as you say......Again, look to that old hag on your currency and start with that answer.....Oh and just because "OH Canada" is your national anthem don't think your not still bound to God save the Lizards, oops I mean the Queen!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:26 | 2281879 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


We welcome hard working english speaking brothers from another mother.

you're recruiting the guys only then?  oh, canada.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 19:17 | 2282074 Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson's picture

My parents inherited 10 acres on the NY/Canadian border south of Montreal.  They sold it for 10k almost 20 years ago.  The border was literally a half mile away and unguarded.  What I would do to get that property back.  It could be like a modern day underground railroad.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:35 | 2281485 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

But beware, some places can become boring like Abu Dhabi. Erik Prince got legal residency in beautiful Austria now:

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:22 | 2281868 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

how very fitting for the *ahem* person that he embodies - as the picture graphically hints.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:37 | 2281495 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

Dear zh community. My girlfriend left 3 weeks ago to return to her home country of norway and has already found a job in journalism. While she is a dual citizen with the us i am not. The plan is for her to get a job and rent a place and for me to quit my job and move to norway. I am anxious about doing so mostly because i dont see how ill get a job in morway as it it is hard for foreigners to secure employment. I love my girlfriend and so i plan on moving and am embracing the possibility of failure but i was wondering if anyone here could find a job in norway.

Iam willing to do pretty much anything to begin with. Even being a janitor. I would like to find ANY oppotunity to work off the get go. Ill be in oslo. Any help would be appreciated

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:39 | 2281500 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

My closest contact is Finland sorry :( but on a positive note society is very friendly there, you will have lots of fun, good luck!

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:21 | 2281702 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Is it Borja??!! My best pal is in finland too! Small world eh?

As for Norway I say go for it! Its one of the best countries and I'm sure your lady is worth it too! And it wont all be as hard as it seems now! Really if I was an american I'd be looking to get out of the US - the civil liberties there are appalling

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:16 | 2282179 espirit
espirit's picture

I say look for another gal to support you.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:32 | 2281747 jayman21
jayman21's picture

Netflix has a great series about this called Lillyhammer.  I doubt it will help with real world issues, but it was sure a nice tv series to watch.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:30 | 2281892 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

while I support your desire to find another space to live in, and wish you luck, sincerely - I can't help but wonder what the reception here would be if you were, say "mexican" and were hoping to find work in amrka - same words in your post, just different demographic. . .

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:57 | 2281952 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

The job scene is better faced once you get here to Europe.

First thing for you is to commit to learning Norwegian ... a bit complicated as there are two major types of the language, but dig in and show you are trying with it once you get to Norway. That's your best investment in time right now, even before you leave the USA. - This is very important despite how well Norwegians tend to speak English.

Next is try to develop some feeling for the cultural subtleties here. It is especially easy for Americans to appear arrogant, belligerent, overbearing, and to annoy people with questions about how much they earn or how much their house cost, that can be extremely impolite to Europeans.

Your username suggests you are working in that corrupt mafia US legal profession that has been stealing from, destroying, and unfairly jailing millions of Americans ... it is important to leave American legalism and legalistic attitudes behind here. It is utterly, utterly different here, the legal and social systems avoid much of the sh*t which a US lawyer considers as normal behaviour.

Once in Norway, if you start navigating the language and show people you are not like the stereotypical arrogant American, job prospects will likely turn up as you make contacts.

If you are a lawyer, try to get an LLM degree from a Norwegian or European school, that will open doors for you.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 21:39 | 2282357 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

bank guy. you are the man. i was planning on learning intensive norwegian and it won't be a problem. i can learn fast. i'm a lawyer. i have no interest in continuing to be one but i would do it if i had to. 

i'm not paying for any more degrees but if they'd send me to school for free, i'd consider it if I had a standing job offer contingent on the job, or if someone hired me outright and let me go to school while working. 

i am not going 'back to school' just to get an LLM with my thumb up my ass. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 08:08 | 2282884 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Bank guy didn't mention it, but you also might want to consider marrying your girlfriend if you can stomach it...spouses get a MUCH beeter reception and job hunting benefits that some random dude living with a Norwegian chick.  Civil ceremonies are cheap...

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:06 | 2281964 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

i have bad news for you.  but - you'll figure it out later.  right now, you would hate me.


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:25 | 2281993 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

Whats the bad news? Thanks for the replies everyone.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 08:11 | 2282891 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

He was probably going to make a crude joke about odor.  I find that men who date women from fish-eating cultures get a disproportionate about of totally unfounded bullshit about that.  Ignore him.

Very best of luck with your move.  If I wasn't in Asia, Norway would just about top my European list.  Hoipe you can make it work and keep us all posted on ZH. You won't be the last bugging out...

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 10:05 | 2286411 BiggerInJapan
BiggerInJapan's picture

you lucky cunt, go there as soon as possible!!! just get ready for the 3 or 4 months of night between Nov-feb.

North europe countrys are the best, I would recomend singapure, New Z00land and australia too.

what the hell I even recomend Japan, but be warned there are japanese here(and some radiation too) eheheh.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:41 | 2281504 youngman
youngman's picture

I live in Colombia.....check it out....Medellin is wonderful

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:56 | 2281569 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

They offer citizenship?

If so, how long's the wait...and what's the price tag?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:03 | 2281603 vegas
vegas's picture

No better place in the world than Colombia. And if it matters to you, the women are the best. Youngman has it right.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:28 | 2281733 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

That's kinda my primary motivation...

Just wondering if they offer dual citizenship.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:24 | 2283524 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Colombia? One of the best places in the world to be kidnapped. Could be exciting I suppose.

Another perspective on Colombia, the second most likely place in the world to be kidnapped,

"The southern Colombian region I was intending to stay in for a night was universally listed as a “DO NOT GO FOR ANY REASON” area by all travel advisories (US, UK, Aus, Canadian) due to high likelihood of kidnappings and multiple recent incidents of bus hijackings and torchings. "

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:02 | 2281824 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

Medellin is More than wonderful. It's super wonderful. Luck you.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 19:37 | 2282110 BernankeHasHemo...
BernankeHasHemorrhoids's picture

I am married to a Colombiana and I have dual US-Canada citizenship. Medellin is a lovely place with the hottest chicks on the planet. Far more freedom there than in the US which has turned to fascism.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:49 | 2282252 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I love Medellin too, a great place. I spent 2 years there and miss it everyday

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 10:07 | 2286416 BiggerInJapan
BiggerInJapan's picture

what is the cost of machine gun equiped bodygards per day? and how many do you carry?

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:46 | 2281525 seventree
seventree's picture

He doesn't mention the US "exit tax".

Exit Tax for US Expatriates


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:31 | 2281744 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

The thing is to not announce you are 'expatriating'.

Just leave, and never come back ... fade away ...

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:00 | 2282151 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

I have always wondered that, myself. If you wanted to leave the usa and become citizen in another country, once you are a citizen and everything is in your name as a citizen of that country, why would anyone go through the expatriation process and its risks and cost when they could just tear up their usa passport and never go back? I supposed they could even change their name in their new country if they were paranoid. why not just abandon the passport?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:30 | 2283582 smiler03
smiler03's picture

The freedom loving US government has already thought about you just leaving and fading away. They can extradite you and welcome you back to the largest prison population in the world.

"U.S. Efforts to Extradite Persons for Tax Offenses".

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 08:11 | 2286296 laosuwan
laosuwan's picture

this report says that deporation is difficult or impossible if the person has another passport and that the usa government is trying to extradite persons for tax fraud, not failure to file some form or whatever petty thing like that.


I still think if you are just joe blow working in some small business or whatever, living abroad as a new citizen of another country, there is no chance the usa governmetn will try to exptradite you for moving away.


Only the very rich should have to bother with this expatriation process stuff.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:55 | 2281808 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

In real life, the monkeys that gave you that second
passport will ask you to pay up again after two years
of residence for no reason, they will just change the rules
to milk you. Decent passport through consultants 100K
plus recurring charges or it might just expire if you don`t
keep paying up. Your local warlord will offer you a better
deal .

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:32 | 2283593 smiler03
smiler03's picture

You too readily judge the rest of the world by your own corrupt country.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:49 | 2281542 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

1 Oz. of gold a month bro. Bed&breakfast. And very small boxes of serial. No guns. But a laugh, and some weed. Legal.


Well, fuck it, you're welcome.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:34 | 2281757 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

We actually have lots of private civilian guns in Europe ... more difficult to own in some places than in others, and there is more bureaucracy surrounding them ... but:

Germany: 25 million civilian privately owned handguns, shotguns, rifles.
France: 19 million civilian privately owned handguns, shotguns, rifles.
And so on.

We do not carry them around, or have as high gun ownership rates as in the US, but 100 million plus private guns in Europe is definitely significant. - Also, we talk much less about the guns, and gold and silver, that we own.

What may give Americans the illusion Europe prohibits guns, is a special case - the crazy UK Brit government did indeed confiscate all privately owned handguns in the 1990s (though not long guns). - But the Brit regime has crazy moments, the cult of law and lawyers going too far (like happens in the US in a different way, with the US judges no longer honouring the US Constitution).

It is not like that on the European Continent. Here we know the Nazis can come back, they were here before, we know 'things can change'. We have seen fascism, like the US is seeing now. Guns stay in European people's hands and homes. Belgium is a big gun-owning country too.

Facts of gun ownership and policies in countries around the world:

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 19:04 | 2282052 malek
malek's picture

You are living in a dream world.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 20:02 | 2282156 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Thanks I have grown tired of asking him FAL, AK or any other militarily significant rifles are in civilian hands in Europe.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:34 | 2283604 smiler03
smiler03's picture

@ malek

No he isn't living in a dream world, he lives in Belgium. He knows, he's there, You're not, you're an ignorant redneck.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 03:59 | 2286171 malek
malek's picture

No, he doesn't know. Otherwise he wouldn't post that ridiculous link as "evidence."

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:50 | 2281550 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

Or you could move to a barren corner of Afghanistan, the US won't be able to find you there

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:03 | 2281958 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

not sure,  the reports are the 'found' some bin kind of guy 3 or 4 times :)


Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:31 | 2282005 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Cue William Banzai photo of Obama's murdering US drone aeroplane

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 15:58 | 2281574 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

You may transport precious metals you own in the United States to another country and store the metals in a safety deposit box, bank vault, or private vault.

Ya crazy? The FBI has shown again and again that they don't care and can go seize anything anywhere if it's in a bank... keep your precious metals where only YOU know where they are at.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:20 | 2281693 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture


Ironically I hid mine in your backyard.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:22 | 2281697 exodus11
exodus11's picture

There is no need to "expatriate".  The US passport is excellent for worldwide travel. That's what you want. If you were born here its your birthright to have that passport. What you need to do is stop cooperating with the laws if the gov is not going to abide by them also. Sorry, but the laws are for both parties. The example is set by the gov. If they ignore them so should you. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:35 | 2283618 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Welcome to prison you terrorist, and while we're at it, we'll confiscate your entire worldly possessions.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 16:28 | 2281727 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

One thru 3......Tick.

4. Only if I fight to regain the USA ,and lose.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 08:16 | 2282903 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

The US is already lost.  Haven't you seen Bush and Obama wiping their ass with the Constitution the last 12 years?  

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 17:21 | 2281869 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Does no one find it hilarious that the "modest capital" amounts are more than 90% of US citizens could ever afford? 100k to open a bank account, economic citizenship for 100k, 200k, 300k, 80k to 400k in real estate, are they fucking kidding?

If we were rich enough to expatriate, we wouldn't need to you fucking loon!

There is a message here, and it is that freedom to live where one wants is a privilege reserved for the ultra-rich - by worldwide income standards $100,000 is an astronomical sum. The serfs can travel but they can't ever leave. Globalization my ass. And good luck going the other route, when your work visa is up for that last renewal before you'll be eligible for citizenship it magically comes back denied. Despite all the rhetoric, the world's governments are still incredibly hostile to immigration, with a few well known exceptions. It's all about temporary migrant labor - support our economy while we give you nothing back (and probably double tax you).

It's very easy to go abroad, but the legal rope tying you to your home country is a Gordian knot, and that's just the way the world's leaders want it.

Getting a foreign job, a work visa, and putting some physical distance between yourself and the Motherland is the best most will ever be able to do.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:08 | 2281967 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Money is an issue, but for a single person it is workable on 25 - 50K.

Many Americans have thrown away that much, buying useless garbage on credit cards.

Certainly, the fee-in-advance 'services' tend to involve the big bucks. Trying to arrange in advance over the internet ... well that is not so cheap or easy.

The real-world most common route, is to go somewhere you like, and slowly work your way into the system. This is, of course, is not easy for many Americans, who have never travelled outside of North America ... most Americans do not even have a passport (Very shocking and surprising to Europeans.)

And the way that immigration is most commonly accomplished ... the cheapest route of all ... is to marry someone local. Pretty girls have the edge here, but males and females of all ages have done this, and lived happily ever after.

Go somewhere, learn the language, be a part of things ... and you may well find the way.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 08:18 | 2282906 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

The cash mentioned is almost beside the point.  You don't need a dime more than an airplane ticket if you can get a JOB first.  It's no harder to get a job in another country than it is to get one here - probably easier since 2008.

Thu, 03/22/2012 - 18:48 | 2282029 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture
  • Phase 4. Expatriate—give up your U.S. citizenship and passport
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    Really bad advice that.  You have to be really greedy and resentful to dump your US citizenship over tax liability.   And what he does not tell you is this, if you give up your citizenship you cannot ever get it back and it will in future be nearly impossible to obtain a visa to return for even a visit. 

    The idea of paying some banana republic 100,000+ for their passport is ludicrous, most people with that kind of bread have decent legal and financial advisors telling them how to avoid a majority of US liabilities, and if you are wealthy enough to want to flee the USA over the duty to pay taxes then try to remember that unless you inherited that cash it was the economic freedom of the USA that granted you the ability to make all that money. 

    One can expatriate without having to give up their citizenship and the USA only taxes it's foreign residents on INCOME and even then you can deduct the local taxes you paid in your new foreign jurisdiction.  Simple answer is stop having income.  Clearly if you can afford to do as suggested above you do not need income. 

    I for one feel that anybody who would seriously consider giving up their US citizenship in order to avoid taxes is a soulless pig we are well rid of, just keep in mind if you select that option you will never be allowed back.  By the way, you can only give up citizenship and your passport on foreign soil.  You may not do it in the USA or in an American embassy. 

    Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!