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Guest Post: Sanctions Force Iranian Retreat from Global Stage

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Dan Graeber of OilPrice

Sanctions Force Iranian Retreat from Global Stage

Domestic demand for gasoline in Iran was driving growth in the energy sector for the year. OPEC, in its latest report, said retail gasoline consumption in Iran was up more than 20 percent for the first five months of the year, though overall oil demand was relatively flat.  Inflation, meanwhile, was up from stable levels reported last year.  Iran has struggled to find a reliable consumer base given international sanctions pressure and the recent levels suggest the Islamic republic is retreating somewhat from the international energy sector.
The Organization of Petroleum Economies, in its August report, said Iranian crude oil production in part led to a decline in overall output from the Vienna-based cartel. OPEC said crude oil production for its members, not including Iraq, was reported at 28.1 million barrels per day in July, a decline of 270,000 bpd compared with the previous month.  The decline in OPEC oil production in part was led by Iran, which saw its export options curtailed by sanctions imposed by the U.S. and European governments. Tehran announced it still had a viable consumer base in China, however, which received about 12 percent of its oil needs from Iran. The Indian government, meanwhile, said it would circumvent EU sanctions by extending government-backed insurance to tankers carrying Iranian crude because of the "definite need" for oil.
Sanctions, however, have hurt the Iranian economy and its overall crude oil levels. Italian energy company Eni reported that it's been unable to get oil out of Iran for the second straight month, however, because of insurance and banking problems. OPEC reported that the Iranian central bank posted an inflation rate of 22.9 percent this year after ending last year relatively flat. Domestically, oil demand reported a growth rate for May of 7.9 percent, or around 100,000 barrels per day. OPEC suggested any growth from Iran's oil demand was likely the result of gasoline consumption. The Iranian Oil Ministry, however, reported that domestic gasoline consumption was down 6.1 percent during the first two weeks of Ramadan, but has since recovered modestly by 1.8 percent. Gasoline consumption in Iran was up 22 percent during the first five months of the year compared with the same period last year, OPEC said.
Growth in Iranian gasoline demand could be a sign that the country's energy sector is retracting in response to sanctions pressure. Any external inhibitors fro Iran were in contrast to neighbouring Iraq, whose crude oil production is at least partially handicapped by domestic political disputes. On Monday, Iraqi officials said oil output reached 3.2 million bpd, taking the No. 2 spot from Iran among OPEC members.

Iranian threats to close the Strait of Hormuz in early 2012 caused an increase in oil prices. While recent spikes in crude were in response to Persian Gulf tensions, long-term trends were attributed mostly to economic stimulus initiatives in the United States and European Union.


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Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:15 | 2717245 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

"7th Circuit Court of Appeals Rules Brokerages Can Use Segregated Client Funds to Pay Creditors"

HEY TYLERS! WHAT'S THE 411 ON THIS! Why no story.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:17 | 2717256 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

The Obamessiah has decreed that any money you have, well, you didn't build that, so now on you funds will be corzined away for the sake of the state.

Disagree and we will send Homeland Gestapo to break your teeth. No hope, no change except for the banksters.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:19 | 2717263 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

if you think ANYTHING was/is/will be different with either party in the WH you are F-ing delusional.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:30 | 2717270 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

No way man. Mittens is definitely out for the good of j6p whom with he has so much in common. No way he would make things easy for his buddies the banksters.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:03 | 2717504 Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

Doesn't matter to banksters who wins, they win regardless.

But that doesn't mean the difference doesn't matter or won't have consequences.

One candidate prescribes "shared success". The other candidate prescribes "equal opportunity, unequal outcomes".

These policies won't affect banksters, but they certainly affect the common man/woman and our economic environment.

They certainly have the last four years.


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:52 | 2717297 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Be of good cheer, I think Mormon moron is no different, just a ken doll alterative to the mulatto.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:37 | 2717279 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

And it will be far different under Romeny. Hope and change is on the way, the smiling vulture capitalist and his gang of lunatic Morman heritics are headed for Washington. Just google Morman Religion and read what this lunatic religion believes, they are one step up from Tom Cruise and the Scientology nut jobs.


Also, why repeat a proven lie and expect it to carry weight on Zero hedge?

"You didn't build that". It is a proven fact that this statement refers to things like sewers, roads and bridges, yet you propose to lie and use it as a reference to a private business enterprise. Why lie? It makes no sense unless one believes they can not make their case based of facts.

Sure, Obama is a loser, Bush was a loser and Romeny is a wall-street whore. Does telling lies affirm anything of value in the debate? I think not.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:55 | 2717301 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Obamney, Rombama, whats the difference? They are both freaks sucking the ass of their puppeteers.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:59 | 2717819 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Obamney is smart enough not to start a world war where as Rombama not so much. Could Rombama have picked a worst running mate? It only crystallizes my opinion of what a moron he is.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:36 | 2718141 monad
monad's picture

White meat or dark, its the same dumb turkey.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:53 | 2718053 monad
monad's picture

You are so mean! You are ruining my illusion of choice. I would do something about it but this wasn't covered in school and they didn't teach me how to think either. Tebow did WHAT?! Aw, kittens... what were you saying?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:31 | 2717354 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I'm gonna insert a post here at the top and dare to talk about oil in a thread clearly intended to be about Iranian oil sanctions.

First, the article is chock full of contradictions.  Here's a nice one:

"Growth in Iranian gasoline demand could be a sign that the country's energy sector is retracting in response to sanctions pressure. "

Iran consumes about 2 million bpd domestically.  They had refinery capacity of 1.5 mbpd as of 2009 and as of late 2010 they announced adding sufficient new refinery capacity to fill domestic needs.  

They are pumping about 3 mbpd.  This is down less than 1 mbpd pre sanctions and they are exporting plenty to China and India to fund life.  There are no riots in the street.  There is no starvation.  There is only desperate Obama sycophants trying to declare their lame sanction policy effective.

All that really matters?  Iran's oil extraction rate from the ground was about 6 mbpd in the 1970s.  They are way, way post Peak.  This is forever.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:37 | 2717363 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

They produce oil...make tons of money...launder it through apparently every it out and buy preoperty in my dog shits on their lawn...It's all connected.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:05 | 2717823 Element
Element's picture

'Written' by a ghost-writing algo?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:36 | 2717843 chistletoe
chistletoe's picture

It seems to me, the same thing happening to the numbers about Iran,

happening to the numbers about the USA hoi polloi ....


Down in the trenches in america, the people have been figuring out that the banker fees are ridiculous,

no matter whether checking account, credit card, gift card, debit card, whatever,

and add on top of that sales taxes and all the other government requirements,

so people are simply going back to cash transactions and barter,

which saves them a whole lot of overhead and regulation and other headaches

and it also results in a black market economy which goes completely  untallied by the statisticians.


Same thing about Iranian oil.

No one really knows, anymore, how much theyr eally pump,

how much they really refine for their own people,

how much they really export,

because none of thoes transactions can be tallied in US dollars anymore,

and gold leaves no paper trail .....


giggle .....

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:59 | 2717498 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

I'm sorry, but this article lost all credibility for me when its author, Dan Graeber, referred to OPEC as the "Organization of Petroleum Economies".

I mean, for crying out loud, this guy is a senior analyst at and yet he can't even get OPEC right?

Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. It even spells it out at the top of the friggin' OPEC report he references.

If he can't even be bothered to get the easiest details correct, why the fuck should anything else he says be believed? It's a poor reflection on as well. It's a mistake not even a rookie would make. Hell, I'm just another dumb hayseed hick from Ohio, and even I was able to spot that glaring error.

The ironic twist to this is that, according to his bio paragraph, he "also teaches media literacy courses at Grand Valley State University."

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:45 | 2717679 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

That OPEC flub was beyond bad, wasn't it.  When I tell people Indonesia had to leave OPEC about 10 years ago because they could not export anymore amid falling extraction rate and rising domestic consumption, it's a blank stare inducer.

OTOH, who is and why would anyone think they are significant?

Grand Valley State . . . okay I have never heard of it.  OTOH, Magueri recently spouted a much quoted oil article from Harvard and in just the past two weeks his Brazil and Iraq presumptions have been blown out of the water.

So oh well.  


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 04:12 | 2717723 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Grand Valley State, that bastion of higher education, is in Grand Rapids Michigan.  Don't go.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:12 | 2717248 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

So...where are the sanctions against these folks ?

Deutsche Bank AG (DBK) is among four European banks being investigated by U.S. regulators for alleged money-laundering violations, according to an attorney with knowledge of the matter.

Or sanctions against the murdering Obama administration?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 05:30 | 2717743 malikai
malikai's picture

DB is a Primary Dealer.

End of Story.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:14 | 2717253 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

For whatever it's worth I know Biderman is a big deal and his video blogs are on here a lot. I watch these pretty often instead. Usually worth the watch.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:18 | 2717258 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Iranian people are suffering for the greater good of "God's Chosen Hebes". Whoever gets in the WH will do the bidding of AIPAC next spring.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:44 | 2717289 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed! You don't get within a mile of the oval office if you are not approved beforehand by AIPAC. They decide who the American people are allowed to vote on for president.

I dare anyone to dispute that nobody is allowed near the major party nominations without AIPAC's approval beforehand.

Why I might ask does a small nation, that lives off of America taxpayer handouts, have the ability to decide American political candidates and decide most if not all American foreign policy.

I am of Swedish Lutheran background, and as near as I can tell, WE have no say at all in deciding such important questions. So why does another minority people literally hold the reigns of American power?

Yes, of course this question makes me an anti semite, but the question still stands. Why does one group hold all that power, and the group I belong to hold no power at all. Is it our blonde hair they hate, or our radical lutheran religion????

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:27 | 2717438 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Well at least they don't hate you for your freedoms nowadays....

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:28 | 2717536 Haole
Haole's picture
"If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it." - Mark Twain
Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:23 | 2717937 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

The only thing AIPAC decides is who they tell the rich Jewish donors who to support.

This is a signifigant pile of coin, so it is YOUR politicians who bend over backwards to compete for that money by supporting pro Jewish policy.

AIPAC does not donate money to politicians, unlike Unions, the NRA or Greenpeace.

They are comprable to a Consumers Report to donors on pro Israel politicians and they do have a lot of influence with those donors. Piss off AIPAC and you will not get any pro Israeli donors money.

AIPAC is not the problem. Money grubbing pols wanting that money is the problem.

At least, if you're going to rant, get some facts first.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:02 | 2717990 Haole
Haole's picture

By your comments you don't seem to be aware of just how many duel Israeli/American Zionist "citizens" occupy, and have occupied, numerous positions at the highest levels of "U.S. government".

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:38 | 2718148 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

Way to Rahm it home!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 18:52 | 2719026 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Why? Because the stupid goyim sheep allowed organized Jewry to obtain near-monopoly control over Big Media and Big Money. By which they own and control most all the politicians. As to Whites in general, Jews regard them with fear, contempt, and hatred: they do not intend to be pogrom'd, or ghetto'd, or holocaust'd ever again. 1900: Whites = 30% of world population. 2000, after a century of Jew-induced massacres, revolutions, and white-on-white wars, Whites down to 9%. By 2100: extinct. That's the ZOGplan. With the world reduced to even lower IQ'd and/or collectivizable blacks, browns, and yellows, the Jew-globalist plutocrats and banksters think they can rule forever. We'll see.  

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:59 | 2717307 DoolieDoink
DoolieDoink's picture

Time for the citizens of the remaining world to start a retaliatory embargo of US banks and products.

Also, what will be fun is that for sure, in future Iran will not be selling oil in dollars !


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:35 | 2717674 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Bi-lateral trade deals /comodity swaps that do not require dollars have been going on for some time.  Dollar sanctions against Iran only encourage dollar trading alternatives.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:18 | 2717260 bushwarcrime
bushwarcrime's picture

So wait.....sanctions are working against Iran. But they would not work against Iraq??  First Iran was our mortal enemy(post 1979), and Iraq was our ally against them.  Then Iraq became our mortal enemy, so much so we needed to destroy, invade, destroy them again.  But my sanctions were so much stronger than todays sanction!  Why are we not invading Iran??? I demand to know why we are not invading Iran!!!!

Yours truly,

Shrub the War Criminal

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:01 | 2717501 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

You really, really, really dont want to invade Iran.

Mountain passes followed by limited routes can attrit the hell out of you.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:27 | 2717262 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

What kind of fucking bullshit propaganda is this article?

Here's the 'reality' of the Hebrew stranglehold on Washington (& all that comes with it)...



US Reliance on Saudi Oil Heads Back Up


Oh ~ & if you thought you were done paying for the follies of the recent past... Think again... Dig deep now... Somebody's livelihood DEPENDS on your politically correct ignorance...

U.S. Treasury increases auto bailout cost estimate

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:45 | 2717291 Ted Baker
Ted Baker's picture

Oh boy the beauty of the logic of prejudice

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:04 | 2717306 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture


Ha!... You stupid MF... You're probably still stuck in the paradigm that ad hominem type comments mean anything anymore (that you're gonna win some sympathy arrows from the PC emos)... I'm guessing that anyone who didn't vote for Obama in '08 was a RACIST too, right?...

Rewind... Here's the TRUTH of my above comment

1. US relies MORE on Saudi oil (CNBC)

2. US Treasury INCREASES auto bailout figure [REUTERS] (so go dig in your pocket some more)


Got anything to ADD to that?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:16 | 2717329 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

I thought for a moment yours would be the first post about oil in an oil thread, but not really.  You lost the train of thought.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:31 | 2717356 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "I thought for a moment yours would be the first post about oil in an oil thread, but not really"


What part of:

"US Reliance on Saudi Oil Heads Back Up"

did you not understand?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:55 | 2717489 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

I just can't get very concerned about oil depletion.

It is a problem that each of us is already facing up to and adapting to every time we fill up with gas.

The mal-Investment caused by financial lunacy is more worrying, as it directs precious resources toward propping up the unsustainable status quo, rather than letting real market forces shape a more practical and innovative use of resources, including the remaining oil.

Anyone for an overseas holiday or new plasma TV( funded with your credit card of course)?

Insanity bitchezz..

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:04 | 2717654 poor fella
poor fella's picture

They're both important so circular reasoning on your part IMHO.

Market forces are levered across the board and seem only to react to crisis lately (like politics) - oil depletion will continue unabated until something blows up and it doesn't matter how much mal-investment there is or how much money one has. All that matters is what can be distributed around the country. If 'practical' uses of oil doesn't magically arise from said market forces - nobody will give a flying shit about financial lunacy.

That clock is reading 12:59:45  - and we can't even talk about this during election season!?

Now; gay marriage and abiotic oil, those are things that don't concern me one iota...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:56 | 2717686 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

People can be happy and fulfilled at many levels of per capita oil consumption, other than what we have now.

Pumping consumer credit into the system is the equivalent of pouring growth hormones into the bacteria colony. Of course they are going to consume and multiply faster than is sustainable.

How can we hope to adapt to our environment or find better ways to do things when we have no real market signals to tell us what things are actually worth?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:25 | 2717268 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Since the NAR is exempt from money laundering, maybe the Iranians could swap oil for US real estate. Then again, that would be worse than selling it for worthless paper like the Saudis do which, btw, has a 5%+ inflation rate and no sanctions, go figure.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:28 | 2717269 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

In my neighborhood the worst houses constantly get sold and then knocked down and some arabian looking palace goes up 2 months later. So yes I think you are on to something.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:32 | 2717273 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Jokes on them, given the direction house prices are going. Maybe Goldman Sachs advised them to buy?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:32 | 2717274 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

my dog loves shitting on their yards. I love my dog.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:35 | 2717277 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

I love your dog too. Make sure you feed him... a lot.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:39 | 2717281 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:17 | 2717331 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:31 | 2717271 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This is from Ann Barnhardt's site. Her response to giving an interview with RT today...

"RT stands for "RUSSIA TODAY" and is fully funded by the Vladimir Putin regime. It is Putin's propaganda arm to the English-speaking world.

And so, after a nano-second's thought, the answer is NOPETY, NOPETY NO.

See, Vladimir Putin is the enemy. He is a very, very evil man and is the enemy of freedom. Those Russians are very, very clever and have essentially checkmated the western world, and the United States. They infiltrated the government, the academia, the media and the Church in the 20th century and put in place and set rolling the Marxist policies that are now in full bloom and have destroyed us. At the same time, Putin's propaganda news outlet, RT, is the only news outlet that is reporting on what a massive, unfixable clusterbungle the Western economies are. I'll grant RT that - their reportage on financial and economic matters IS INDEED ACCURATE, but their motives are not to help save the system or even to warn people of the looming disaster. The motive of the RT ownership is to bring about the collapse of the West that Russian Communists designed and executed over the last 70+ years, and thus set the stage for a Russian-backed and Russian-controlled currency and global economy.

So, no, I won't be appearing on RT, no matter what. Even if the show anchors aren't explicitly Communists and are merely people who think that the ends justify the means, the fact that RT is a Putin property and operational arm means that there is no possible way that I could ever, ever appear on that network.

Christians do not treat, parley, negotiate, compromise or converse with the enemy - even through intermediaries. The ends do not justify the means. If it is indeed the will of God Almighty that I have an audience of tens of millions of people, then I trust that He, in His omnipotence, can make that happen without my having to crawl into bed with VLADIMIR FLIPPING PUTIN. "

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:40 | 2717280 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Well as far as 'crawling into bed' is concerned... they have Lauren Lyster... francis_sawyer is in HER BED until further notice...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:40 | 2717283 Precious
Precious's picture


Aww shucks.  Poor little Ann.  That evil Putin.  

I'm gonna get dat wabbit if it's da last thing I do.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:16 | 2717332 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I was just trying to liven things up around here with a debate by posting her reply. For whatever it's worth in this particular instance I think she is a putz. If she has a message to spread she should shelve the god stuff and use the venue. God would probably understand or he/she/it would not have the venue available.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:06 | 2717403 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

coupla more brews & you'll be ready for A2,  fonz_oo

tell her to shelve the god stuff and then end with a theological statement based on "probability"?  L0L!!!  priceless!

i'll take annB just the way she is!


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:10 | 2717410 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

if u believe in god and god put you here to spread a message and putin is the vessel then you don't say no because god does not like putin even though god created putin. you pitch the message and chalk it up to strange bedfellows. 6 beers

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:51 | 2717569 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

she is a fighter with a ton of punch

+ she has divine balls

1 bong

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:08 | 2719062 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Barnhardt's a Christian-Zionist, Muslim-hating crazy who masquarades as a Constitutionalist Patriot. More war = more government, which she pretends to not understand. Every time she pretends to purity and ducks a major media interview, she shoots herself in the head. Good riddance.  

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:03 | 2717503 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

You really gotta like Anne Bernhardt, but I really think she needs to get laid.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:22 | 2717600 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


iwould marry her just to piss her off...

... imagine the make-up sex! 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:05 | 2719064 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

She'd cut your balls off and eat them.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:25 | 2717533 Haole
Haole's picture

Hard to shelve the god stuff when one is a delusional fundamentalist, extremist Christian psychopath.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:19 | 2717589 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

she's very e.vangeli


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:41 | 2717678 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

How did you do that?  Is that a different font?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:09 | 2717319 DoolieDoink
DoolieDoink's picture

I did not know there is a patron saint of hedge fund managers !

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:20 | 2717320 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

Much better commentary regarding Russia and Putin at the below link.  Unlike Ann Bernhardt's idiotic, wild-eyed screed above, it actually makes sense.

Is Washington Deaf as Well as Criminal?


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:24 | 2717342 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

In my humble opinion that article is pretty fkin stupid,

"The ears of the american “superpower” only work when the Israeli prime minister, the crazed Netanyahu, speaks. Then Washington hears everything and rushes to comply."

"Netanyahu lusts for war against Iran. He strikes out against all who oppose his war lust. Recently, he called Israel’s top generals “pussies” for warning against a war with Iran."

So this guy is so powerful that the US bows down before him and his own generals have the balls to speak out against his wishes? Sorry, something is fishy there.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:49 | 2717377 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"something is fishy there"

Paul Craig Roberts is a limited hangout for the religious right. He seems like a really wise and kindly old uncle, but......

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:54 | 2717388 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

A worthless reply devoid of any substance.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:16 | 2717424 kill switch
kill switch's picture

A worthless reply, devoid of any substance.

I'll do the same



Short retort.... PCR is ok but    Fuck You!!!  psychobilly

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:51 | 2717385 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"So this guy is so powerful that the US bows down before him and his own generals have the balls to speak out against his wishes? Sorry, something is fishy there."

As the article states: "When a resolution introduced by the Israel Lobby is delivered to Congress, it passes unanimously."  This is despite the fact that the American people are far from having reached a consensus on Israel and the US government's proper role with respect to that country.

I would agree that - along with the endless parade of US politicians making the yearly pilgramages to Israel and the AIPAC conference - something is definitely fishy, but it has been for some time and predates Netanyahu.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:57 | 2717391 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

agreed all around

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:06 | 2717510 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

The truth is that the United States of America is Israel's bitch.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:01 | 2717562 Precious
Precious's picture

"Netanyahu", {hebrew} "Nethaniah" meaning 'the gift of the Lord'.

... and a family history of narcissistic personality disorder.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:48 | 2717633 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

correct w/ the 'translation'

there is a nathanael in john's gospel at the end of ch1;  he is introduced to theRabbi by philip in this 'version'

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:58 | 2717673 poor fella
poor fella's picture

It's not anti-semetism if I think Congress is a bunch of WHORES is it... ? I've never seen these fuckers jump to anything the way they do here. Granted, it's an old clip but never ceases to piss me off - before entering a Strikeforce cage match, I'd watch this to get my game face on.

They should repeal the Patriot Act or NDAA with such zeal. Absolutely disgusting....

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:45 | 2717473 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

I like "Crazy As a Shithouse Rat" Ann- but I think she is pissed that Vlady P had her favorite Russian punk band "Pussy Riot" thrown in jail for 3 years on some trumped up charges.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:03 | 2717652 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i hope they like the meds...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:22 | 2717834 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

"He is a very, very evil man and is the enemy of freedom." News flash stupid we aren't free in the west either. Freedom died when we let the zionist control our money for profit.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:43 | 2717963 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Sala'din will be very unhappy the Christians have changed policy on treaties.

It is quite a suprise that Putin doesn't feel the need to blow sunshine out his ass for the benefit of a western audience, unlike our domestic tv media does.

Who could have guessed? Truth as anti-western propaganda.

I mean, It's not really like the banksters and their bought and paid for minions in Govt. are really porking your pie , is it?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:39 | 2717282 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

BREAKING... According to a Belgian journalist (who's been covering extensively the war in Syria), NATO sources told him that Israel will strike Iran on August 20.

Time to buy some oil contracts...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:41 | 2717286 Precious
Precious's picture

... and my Magic 8 Ball says ....

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:54 | 2717299 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Here's why I think this might be for real.

- Trusted journalist

- Never made this ``prediction`` before

- 24 hres warning

- All the propaganda lately

- Israeli warplan leaked

- US will have 4 aircraft carriers off Iran this week or within two weeks as ZH noted earlier this summer


Shit gonna get real.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:07 | 2717314 surf0766
surf0766's picture

I do not think this administration will not attack Iran. They are taking care of syria. Iran and Saudi playing nice this weekend.


Things aren't the old game plan.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:48 | 2717478 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

if the yids want a war they will not get the green light til after the "election" this fall. NO WAY Obummer is gonna have $6+ a gallon so close to Nov.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:10 | 2717659 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

People still voted for Bush when oil was sky high because he was the decider and the country was at war with Al-CIAda. No president has ever lost an election during a war.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:18 | 2717832 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

What makes you think the people who voted actually mattered. Our election outcomes are all predetrimend in advance. The hope and change guys actions should tell you why he was picked. The polls liked him and the zionists new that it would be easy for them to continue on their same path if the new guy was well liked by the public. We have had 4 years of the same crap we have had since 9/11. We are israelicans now.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:39 | 2718337 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Now-a-days things are different. It does not matter who is in the white house.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:23 | 2717835 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Except that after the election they have no leverage.

Post election,the grovelling stops for another three years.

They will go,but I think September new moon is more likely.

The fourth carrier group will be there and fully 'worked up'by then.

September is going to turn into a gamechanger on a lot of fronts.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:09 | 2717825 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

" Trusted "? So he does not work for any of the zionist controlled propaganda media outlets?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:42 | 2717287 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Seems to me that I heard that Israel was going to strike Iran on August 20, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011 as well...


Fuck the Apartheid state of Israel...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 06:37 | 2717775 Haager
Haager's picture

It's scary, could be true that there were plans for Agust 20. Could also mean that its a deadline notice only.  

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:45 | 2717971 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture


That Brussels Bank Guy ...

Always with the leg pulling.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:41 | 2717285 Muppet Pimp
Muppet Pimp's picture


Romney is a venture capital failing business turn around guy.  That sort of thinking is in his blood.  He is the obvious choice in this election, as we desperately need a turnaround.  When faced with status quo or the turnaround guy, the turnaround guy gets to drive the bus, hands down.  He has some pretty decent plans on his website, his background in turning around failing operations clearly shows.  This might turn out pretty good for US.  The lifetime congress critters had better get on board or be prepared to be run over once the momentum gets going.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:57 | 2717389 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Friday humour is on Fridays around here. Just so you know in future....

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:39 | 2717459 Kiwi Pete
Kiwi Pete's picture

He's more a shut your companies down and ship your jobs off to China type of guy. But first you get to train up your Chinese replacements. He's that type of a great guy!

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:50 | 2717481 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

this kind of shit is ripping small town US apart- want to know what happens next- look at early 30s Germany( hopefully we'll get a "Really Final Solution"

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:42 | 2717288 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

After Nagasaki and Hiroshima no one has dared to use an atomic weapon to settle differences. So why have them? Well they are a deterrent.

North Korea is a totally evil society for what it is doing to its people but no one dares to touch them. Infact the US has given them oil, food stuffs etc to calm them down.

Similarly, Iran's motivations may well be the same.....regime preservation.

So all the missles, aircraft carriers, drones etc are nullified when you know that your enemy has an atomic weapon.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:27 | 2717346 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Netanyahu hasn't figured that out yet...

Israel probably has 700+ nukes... 700??? WTFF???

Iran, with it's resources, could have probably BOUGHT 700 nukes on the black market over the past 40 years if it had wanted to (has it??? apparently not)... Instead ~ PERSIA has not attacked any country in over 200 years (same can NOT be said for the United States or Israel)...

Israel is an Apartheid nation serving the warmongering interests of a Zionist banking cabal in the strategic 'oil rich' geographical area known as the Middle East...

All the rest of this dialogue is bullshit...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:38 | 2717364 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I agree with you that Iran has no intent of acquiring a nuclear device for use against Israel BUT........


It is sad that peace can only be maintained by the threat of a greater evil.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:46 | 2717374 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Sadly ~ I agree with you there...

Illogically ~ Let's just give everybody a nuke & just all STAND DOWN (if that what it takes)...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:18 | 2717517 i-dog
i-dog's picture


"Illogically ~ Let's just give everybody a nuke"

It's not illogical at all ... it's the principle of the 2nd Amendment.

It's only illogical if you are opposed to the 2nd Amendment and wish to assign the monopoly of force to your master.

Frankly, anyone who supports the 2nd Amendment yet wishes to deny nukes to Iran (and others) is nothing but a fucking hypocrite!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:28 | 2717606 steveo77
steveo77's picture

Allowing Iran to have nukes would be nothing less than insane and stupid.   


Your protest fails large, on the basis of reality.    Stop talking shit and get real.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:56 | 2717684 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

steve-o - in case you're not keeping tabs, at this point, you're losing badly on points.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:25 | 2717798 i-dog
i-dog's picture

He's also losing badly on principles. He's given us a perfect example of moral relativism that the kiddies at home can learn from.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:22 | 2719090 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Not "everybody". If Ann Elizabeth Barnhardt gets her hands on a thermonuclear device, we really are doomed.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:25 | 2718504 RichardP
RichardP's picture


There are many nations with no nuclear bombs which have not been invaded.  Including Iran.  Your logic suffers ...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:28 | 2717347 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:35 | 2717350 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Francis I am totally wading in deeper waters than I understand with Israel. So let me ask you this...If Israel dropped a nuke on Iran and just ended it. Would it be instant WW3?

full disclosure I am 5 beers in the hole.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:58 | 2717383 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

My best guess is it would result in one of these scenarios:


The best move is NOT TO PLAY (Everyone seems to know this except for Israel... & even though they PROBABLY know it... it's not stopping them from being MF'ers and trying play POSSE with global fears)...

My instinct is to say "Fuck 'em for that"... IOW ~ I highly HIGHLY doubt that nukes will fly anywhere or anytime... I just fucking HATE the assholes who use that threat (in combination with the strategically well placed banking, media, & political interests around the globe to FEAR MONGER 'price manipulation' of goods & assets for PROFIT...

It's HATEFUL... (& shameful)... there can be NO APOLOGISTS towards that cause...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:31 | 2718307 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

World would have been a very peaceful place if Iraq had been an atomic power. Perception of having one is equally good. In case of Saddam, when UN observer made it clear that Iraq does not have them, he was hunted like a rat. Remember Qaddafi very honestly gave it up and was dragged in the streets.

Now for the world peace Iranian should work 48 hours a day to join N-club.



Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:01 | 2717308 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Oil trumps all.

All posturing by Israel and its poodle, America, falls when they realize they need the oil, or somebody else does and is willing to trade for it.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:22 | 2717340 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

eat here
get gas

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:54 | 2717571 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Liquor in the front and pumper in the rear...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:31 | 2717355 DoolieDoink
DoolieDoink's picture

Imagine – The nuclear armed Jews actually blow up Iran’s sites because their propaganda machine extols the fears of an arab nuclear armed state.

Hostilities eventually must end – at that point then,  do the deranged US expect Iran to sell oil to US and Europe as before, in dollars !!!

Or with Israel’s expertise are they planning  a state take over bid; like they stole Palestine ?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:10 | 2717453 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

It's not that simple...

The Apartheid state of Israel is damn lucky to even be recognized in the first place... It would have never become so without the fraudulent establishment of the United Nations...

Israel has no real power... Western media is controlled & has been fed a steady diet of their bullshit for about as long as anyone on this blog has been alive... That type of persistence usually means that your agenda eventually gets etched into stone, but something has 'smelled' funny all along...

Nuclear Iran is just a smokescreen... Iran has no interest in glassifying the ME region... Why should they? (they're the ones sitting on top of a sea of oil (not Net & FUCKING YAHOO)... They're [the Apartheid state of Israel] just playground bullies towards the Palestinians (& TASOA needs the idiot & bought & paid for US polticians to sign off on fighting the real battles)...

I guarantee you that the VERY DAY Iran (if they want to), tests a nuke... Then VENEZUELA will, all of a sudden, find itself squarely in the crosshairs...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:11 | 2717415 kill switch
kill switch's picture


Amerikan sanctions,,,,,, The Eye of Sauron Something New Under the Sun

August 18, 2012

Fred Reed

The pieces come together. Within the last week I have read:

1) New software, associated with Facebook, will recognize customers in stores so as to offer them discounts; having your photos uploaded to allow this service will (for now) be voluntary.

2) A new surveillance system in New York will store footage from cameras in, for example, the subway, so that when an unattended package is discovered, the police can look back in time to see who left it.

3) TSA is perfecting a laser that will allow detection on travelers of trace amounts of drugs, explosives, and doubtless a wide variety of other things.

4) The government is moving toward mandating black boxes on cars to record information thought to be useful in ascribing blame in crashes.

5) Various police departments are beginning to use “drone” aircraft to monitor the population.

These are recent pieces of the coming world. They have not yet all been completely deployed and linked. Some are voluntary, for the moment. Others are in development. All are coming.

Add the now-routine tracking of passports, cameras that read every passing license plate and record the time, NSA’s automated monitoring of email, Google’s and therefore the government’s knowledge of your searches, GPS tracking of cell phones, detailed records of bank transactions, and so on. Not all of these are instantly accessible by the police. They can easily be made accessible, and they move in that direction.

In short, the technology exists for a detailed, unblinking, unforgetting watchfulness of the entire population beyond anything imagined, or perhaps imaginable, a few decades ago. This is not Fred-drank-too-much-coffee. It is happening.

The capacity of hard drives is now essentially without limit, the power of computers to sort and search infinite, and the speed of the internet no longer a bound. Almost microscopic cameras, wireless concealable microphones, face recognition, voice recognition, recording GPS: You can buy all of this in consumer stores. The government has far better.

People speak of the onrush of the police state. I think that many do not understand how fast it comes, or how thorough it will be.

The political framework falls rapidly into place. Few or no safeguards exist, and probably few are possible. A growing authoritarianism rapidly erodes what protections we had. The courts allow random searches of passengers of trains and subways without probable cause. Warrantless tapping of personal communications is rampant, or done with secret warrants from a secret federal judge. TSA has Viper squads that stop cars at random for searches. In many places it is against the law to video the police, who everywhere become more militarized and less accountable. For practical purposes, citizens have no recourse.

At a higher level of generality, America is no longer a democracy. If you think this a rash assertion, ask yourself whether you have the slightest influence over policies that matter to you. Suppose that you want to end the wars, shrink the military, end affirmative action, genuinely change education, or reform a hostile and unworkable bureaucracy. Who do you vote for? Important policies are made in faceless bureaucracies immune to public influence. National politics employs a sort of political price-fixing, in which you are permitted to choose among a number on indistinguishable candidates and told that you are having an election.

None of this is going to stop.

Why is it happening? Some suspect a vast conspiracy to Sovietize the country. I doubt it. Don’t look for a conspiracy when human nature is an adequate explanation. Presidents never want to suffer the restraints on constitutionality, the agonizing slowness of a congress that often has little understanding of the issues; if presidents can do things by fiat, or secretly, they will.

We have now had twoconsecutive presidents with less than normal respect for the constitution, one a brown Plantagenet but with little grounding in European civilization, the other a privileged rich brat of limited intellect and schooling. Such as they will take any shortcut they can get away with, and there is no longer anyone to tell them no.

Men grab power when they can. Once grabbed, it stays grabbed. A police operation like DHS will always try to grow. People in power always think they know best. When a federal department has money, industry rushes to sell it things. In the case of TSA, this means new and more advanced scanners, then upgrades, and maintenance contracts, training contracts, and then a new kind of scanner, and the process repeats.

The people doing all of this are not thinking of installing totalitarianism. They are thinking dollars, promotions, power, ego, and perks.

The FBI? NSA? Federal officials in general? They know best. They are, they think, just fighting crime, terrorism, maintaining national security, what have you, and the more power they have, they better they can do this. Further, intimidating people is pleasurable. If citizens have nothing to hide, say all these cops, they have nothing to fear. If you torture terrorists, or those you think may be terrorists, well, the real world is like that. Do you want more terrorism?

A conspiracy would be preferable. You can crush a conspiracy. Human nature, which inherently drifts toward corruption, is a far tougher nut.

What difference will it make to live in a country in which the government knows everything whatever about everybody, and few safeguards against abuse exist? For most people, at first, probably not much. At first. But for people the government doesn’t like, a lot. Reporerters, writers, whistle-blowers, activists, dissidents.

And we are all vulnerable. Knowledge, as someone said, is power. Few of us have spotless lives, or want them. Did you once check into a cheap motel with someone else’s spouse or a lady of the night? What do the porn sites you visit say about you? If you are, say, a politician, do you want these things to come out? Have you written compromising emails about shady deductions on your taxes, or about your boss (“a weasely dickhead and probably a latent girly-boy”)? You have bar bills or liquor purchases of $300 a week? What if you show positive on a marijuana scan at the airport, which becomes justification for a full search of your house, or dismissal from work?

Things have already reached the point at which writers of my acquaintance, who do not have the power of the Washington Post behind them, have stopped criticizing the government. Whether they are in fact in any danger of persecution—I don’t think they much are yet—almost doesn’t matter. The mere knowledge that your email can be read is intimidating, like being closely followed by a police car even when you are doing nothing wrong. We are daily being followed by more police cars, both literal and figurative.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:02 | 2717442 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" ... "If you see something, say something" ... "If you don't bang your head against the cell walls, you won't get a headache" .....

Dumb fucking soylent green, err, sheep!


"The people doing all of this are not thinking of installing totalitarianism."

Riiiiiiight, riiiiiiight! What's the agenda here, G? (as if I don't know*.....)


 * Fred Reed = Washington Times = CNP = fucking Khazarians

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:43 | 2717563 flapdoodle
flapdoodle's picture

What is really, really sad is that just as soon as the technical means became available, Amerika lunged for the totalitarian option. 200yrs of "democracy" trampled on by the mad, frenzied rush of sociopathic leaders and faceless bureaucrats to the promised land, a working, sustainable fascist dictatorship which would make the pikers Stalin, Mao and Adolph Hitler green with envy...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:04 | 2717822 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

You don't like living in the United States of Israel? Geesh

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:02 | 2717864 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the world you describe has one all powerful antidote : the entropy effect...

No amount of technology will ever save a despotic autocracy. It will fall into the fatal trap of overspending and people's apathy which will eventually turn into rage. Those very technological gimmicks that were created for surveillance of sheeple will be used for surveillance of the bureaucrats by OTHER rival bureaucratic groups.

Stasi states always fail under their own weight. Admittedly it takes time and generations get sacrificed in that process!

That's why ensuring governments don't morph is vital. But it requires the vigilance and virulence of citizens which just doen't exist in the USA today! 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:42 | 2717445 delacroix
delacroix's picture

wouldn't it be ironic, if Iran detonated a nuke in tel aviv, constructed from plans purchased from an isreali arms dealer in the 60's

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 06:13 | 2717764 css1971
css1971's picture

Why on earth would Iran hit Tel Aviv when it can hit Ras Tanura and Al Basrah instead?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:22 | 2717601 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

since this thread seems to have become a catch-all for everything under the rug, I hope it's not too out of place to insert a small rejoinder to the title of this piece of disinfo....

Through long and patient study of the group psychology of their opposites of the sionist persuasion, the Iranian peeple have learned to imitate them in the diasporic department - moving themselves over continents and into communities, wherein having embedded themselves and practicing their natives bizness skills, they often act as traders and intermediaries on behalf of the home government, so as to circumvent sanctions and other problems that would otherwise impede the flow of currency and goods back to the mothership...

in this they appear to be increasing successful, even perhaps beating the artstudent\organsellers at their own game it seems...

this from FT -

Meanwhile, Iranian businessmen say small European banks, notably those in crisis-hit economies, still help with financial transactions to Iran through foreign nationals and money transactions to countries such as Turkey, Ukraine, Azerbaijan and some Persian Gulf Arab Gulf states. Businessmen, however, refuse to reveal the names of the European banks involved.   It is difficult for the U.S. to track transfers. Many Iranian expatriates – who are estimated to number at least 2m worldwide – hold dual nationality. They may be tempted by the high commissions on offer from the Iranian government or businessmen to help them circumvent sanctions.
  oh, and my favorite part:

But while Iran’s currency has lost nearly half its value against the dollar over the past year and inflation has shot up 23 percent, according to official figures, the average Iranian consumer has yet to notice shortages. Supermarkets and retail shops are still fully stocked with domestic and imported foods as well as luxury goods.

At at time when Merikans are languidly standing by as witnesses to a slow moving train wreck and economic implosion that will jump them all directly from 1st to third world status, the comfortable continuity of Iranians' collective consumer confidence is causing great gnashing of teeth in the ZATONIC IMPERIAL COCCOON
Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:12 | 2717792 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 I know a few Iranian expats - though they call themselves Persians. And they tell the same story.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 04:43 | 2717727 falak pema
falak pema's picture

An interesting post in the historical perspective by Paul Craig Roberts on the venemous consequences of Hubris :

Hubris as the Evil Force in History -

Our anarcho-libertarian clique on ZH, all the while it decries government has no solution to propose other than more free markets; aka more corpocratic mayhem in real, elitist power  tilted social equilibrium. It would be well advised to eat some humble pie in the face of current US economic reality and the philsophical debacle that this dynamic portrays, since the delusional age of neo-conservatism has made the land of the free what it has become.

Play on sons of Reaganista logic. Your future is written in the ink of despotism unlimited. Central governments now more and more tools of the corrupt elites. 

The oil patch is the fatal trap where this despotism will become more and more evident, if the past 60 years are not already a damning evidence of that; as reconciling western values and real economic needs will become increasingly unreal.

Bull Run hubris time. But is Nettyyahoo, Napoleon? And is Iran Moscow moment? 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 05:48 | 2717753 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

while yur urge for self-improvement is laudable Falak Bey, even in yoga, standing on yur head for too long leads to diminished cognition, not énlightenment...pls make a note to self in this regard!

On the other hand, if yu have been hung upside down upon the rack, yu have my sympathies, but yu have been clearly spoiling for a good fight here for weeks...did some worthy opponent finally rise from the ranks?

At any rate, this muddled puddle of fish guts is in no way commensurate with yur recent efforts here, and rather than rise to the bait, I think I shall just take the opportunity to correct yur mendacious and provocateur-like lumping of two entirely different strains of anti-statism together in an attempt to get a rise....

"anarcho-libertarian" is a klassic oxy-moronic - the libertarian being they for whom an imaginary friend (mr invisible hand) substitutes for a deistic figure in their atheistic theology, in the thrall of which illusion they allow the pharaseeutical klass of money-changin "kapitalists" to konstruct a golden kalf of kleptocraptic fascism around which the rubes worship the principle of "markets" whilst getting their pockets picked[apparently live time demonstrations of this shell game in action have no effect upon the fervor of the heuristically-challenged hordes of self confessed lib-er-tar-ians for their onanistic ontology]....

anarchistically inclined human beans, on the other hand, celebrate a)the innate capacity of the species to produce and trade items of value with each other, with but a modicum of guile - b)the ability of proper toilet training to moderate the instinct to horde and react hyper-aggressively to all talk of sharing stuff - c)and view all theorizing about the necessity for komplicated hierarchies of any kind with the skepticism it deserves...left to their own devices, such persons would probably development into communities of well adjusted, productive and peace-luving peeples...the example of which would probably make the state and statism obsolete...but to date, that has not been allowed to happen.

thank yu for the opportunity to correct a common misconception.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 06:13 | 2717765 falak pema
falak pema's picture

always willing to advance the cause of debate. Fight club stimulates my neurones, even the yoga analogy is very appropriate. And I will gladly accept your critique. 

I know you have a penchant for extrapolating theory into practice. Your eloquence here about oxymoronic illogic is a perfect example. I will not comment on it as the pleasure of reading  its verbiage is a hors d'oeuvre in itself. 

So Santé! 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:08 | 2717783 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

blablabla, a few veiled insults, a few pats on your head, a "falak bey" thrown in for good measure and you are putty in his hands.

you want critique? your posts are shy. and elitist. in fact, you write them in a way that avoids confrontation with the younger generation and those that were not blessed by an education similar to yours.

you have not really entered Fight Club, you are just sipping dry martinis in the bar overlooking the fights, muttering elegant comments reminiscent of French and Farsi poetry. and now you have found a new friend in intelligibility.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:44 | 2717807 falak pema
falak pema's picture

lol, caught in the cross fire! 

I will admit, I don't buy theory over practice. But sometimes its better to bow to the critiques and let them show their hands more fully. 

Joyful has a penchant for beginning from theory and he has done it here. Start from oxymoron and build a theory around it to explain the real world.

I prefer starting from fact as you have done here; and I agree in the real political world, oxymorons notwithstanding, the double barrelled antistatist political reality has always existed. 

My amazement at finding such a heavy, consistent anti-statist slant here on ZH, to defend idealised versions of entrepreneurial John Galtism in the real world, dominated by corpocracy gone wild,  is a perpetual  theme which rankles a lot of feathers. So fight club shying is not my usual stance. Just saying...

BTW : Its not Martinis. Its wine. 


Sun, 08/19/2012 - 06:30 | 2717768 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

there are more strains of anti-statism, joyful. just a few major ones:

 - libertarians, a predominantly US political group gaining ground

 - anarcho-liberals (aka now anarcho-capitalists in the Anglosphere), a much older strain, born in the 1840's, the old black and yellow flag

 - anarcho-syndacalists, the black & red flag, together with the anarcho-communists

- anarcho-nihilists, the purest form of anarchy, the black flag (of the pirate, too), see illegalists

I note that the war for the ideals is going so fast that in all wikipedias the older anarcho-liberals are being blotted out with the anarcho-capitalist label, the voluntaryst label and conflated with libertarianism as an overarching grouping, something that historically is utter bullshit, then the overarching grouping is Classical Liberalism, the yellow flag still flying in europe.

Of course, a lot of this re-writing of history has to do with the current US elections, where labels are being sacrified for short-gain electoral propagandal reasons.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:08 | 2717824 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

I'm off the grid now Ghordius, and oftentimes have to measure my computer time judiciously...can't hang around on line all day no more...

this cacaphony of noise yu are putting up today is interesting yes, but methinks yur full of the same beans as Falak...perhaps yuv both been dipping in Ponce de Leons' wading pool!>!>???

 ....and Falak is misrepresented in yur above description - he is a jouster...of the old school[Provençal?]who hears trumpets and the sounds of pounding hooves where others are limited to the white noise of their screens...always in search of the black knight with whom to fight...I am nothing more than an errant alchemist on the stage of his theatrical production!

martinis? I'll wager there is never a bottle of the ol wormwood far from his writing desk, and as for Farsi, the more the merrier i say! btw...the "persians" are very much a key to unravelling the mystery of the khazarian kooks which yu pretend to dismiss...but I'm not ready to go there yet!

I'd nibble at the anarcho-muddle admittedly, but I am simply far too mellow of the moment to indulge in any serious sallies...I was kind of hoping to draw out some of the more mirthless of the lib crowd with my own bait, and like a good fisherman, I'm happy to wait...n see what specimens of vermi-kulture rise from their sub-soil sanctuaries!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:07 | 2717993 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

This is like a 60's flashback watching two tripping acid heads having a conversation.

Most entertaining.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:05 | 2717776 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

JOYFUL, come out to plaaayyyayyyayyy! if the above is not enough to raise you to the bait, how about this I was writing here?

I could add a bait intro like "what the damn libertarians don't get" or so if you prefer ;-) ... but what really concerns me is this new "central planner" meme being sprinkled everywhere. anyway:


political interest does not need planning

one "invisible hand" governs most of the economy, the other "invisible hand" governs most of politics

the same way as you don't need to know the man that made the pizza you ordered, or the man that made the dough, or the farmer that grew the wheat

so I don't need to know the man that sells the weapons, the man that has a new enemy, the man that crafts thecasus belli, nor the man that wants a pipeline there, nor the holy man that calls for the holy crusade, nor the pretty bards that sing the news about it, nor the oracle of rationality that says that wars and broken windows will make the babes hot and fertile and so blesses the crusade, nor all the consumers of gas that will eventually pay for all this great effort

eventually my money will reach the holy man, and he will send the young warriors ready to die for what is most holy

it always strikes me as strange that some believe in the one "hand" but not in the other


your effort in finding hidden groups motivated by a semi-religious agenda is naive - and quite undescriptive of what really happens in real life with real humans. come on, joyful, can you resist?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:44 | 2717806 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You've got enough straw men in there to completely clear the wheatfields of the Russian Steppe of crows, Ghordie!!

"political interest does not need planning"

So, you would have us believe that Dubya got the top job through his dedication to learning and some mighty political tussles and debates against his ideological opponents, eh?

How about Obomber and vonRumpled? Did they get those top jobs through their widespread recognition in their respective fiefdoms, acquired during decades of highly visible campaigning and outlining of their policies from state to state?

You sure you don't choom, too?

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 02:26 | 2719867 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

come on, i-dog, now you are "straw-manning" or whatever. Exactly the opposite. Dubya's family connections with the oil producers is now old. And their courtship of the Christians was well prepared in advance. If you research, you'll find how being friendly to some feminist groups got Obama a Nobel prize.

you know what I am about, and Joyful too.

anyway, suit yourself

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:26 | 2717837 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Trying to put the pieces together: Iran oil embargo, Syria, Iraq, US Dollar

In my experience things are mostly quite straightforward and simple. And one of the best advices I got in my life was: Make it simple and stupid!

Fact is Iran does not sell its oil for Dollars since a longer while. Dont know since when but its not since yesterday. Gaddafi in Lybia did the same. He sold for Euros and gold but he boycotted the US Dollar.  Gadaffi problem now settled. But the oil market needs supply in addition whether from Iraq or Iran.  But it is forbidden by the US that its allies buy oil from Iran as long as Iran is not accepting US Dollars again. Iran can overcome this US pressure by selling to China, India and to Japan (Japan is paying in the new Yen/Yuan currency which is accepted by Iran since its not US Dollars).

So now the countries controlled by the US (except Japan which pays in Yuan/Yen) do not buy anymore oil from Iran. But the Iranian oil which used to flow also to the west has to be substituted and that is obviously on the short run only possible by increasing the output from Iraq.  But the US/UK did not manage in the past ten years to increase the output substantially because Iraq is unstable and nobody invests there, fearing the pipelines etc are blown to pieces by enemies of the US which are most probably located in Iran.

But there is the north of Iraq, Kurdistan. They are about to break away from Iraq and have signed mayor deals with Exxon, Chevron and others.  But the problem is how to get this oil out of the country. Through Turkey, no way because the Turks would like to have a huge chunk of the profits in exchange the oil flows through their territory. The Kurds do not like such a solution because Kurdish oil would fatten the coffers of their number one enemies. So Big Oil would have to pay the Turks by its own, which makes the whole thing not profitable anymore.

The solution: Bring the Kurdish oil through Syria to the European markets. Its the shortest way and at the same time it would eliminate Russias presence in the Mediterrean Sea.  Syria needs to fall otherwise the Kurdish oil can not hit the markets at competetive prices thus forcing the Europeans quite soon to buy Iranian oil again (just like the Japanese do already).

So, Iran does not accept US Dollars as payment for its oil but the Europeans might be forced soon to buy it because there is not enough oil on the market. Iran is happily accepting Euros, Yuan/Yen, Indian Rupees (not so happily but they accept it), gold is also welcome no doubt.

This gives me the idea, that a full US/UK success in Syria is really absolutely necessary.  Otherwise sooner or later Europe has to follow the BRIC road like obviously the Japanese did already.

This makes me also think, that all this propaganda about Israel is attacking Iran or the other way round is only made to distract the public from the real situation.  While thinking longer I came even to the idea, that there might be  already nuclear weapons stationed in Iran - under Russian control. Just to send a message to the US from Russia and China not to mess up with Iran which is for both their most important ally. Would make absolutely sense in my opinion.



Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:42 | 2717846 falak pema
falak pema's picture

very astute post; you have nailed it when it comes to highlighting the ongoing fragmentation of Pax Americana and USD hegemony in the oil patch. The law of diminishing returns on US investment in guns n oil. They need to act fast to secure Saudi/Iraq/Kurd mozaic and keep their Israeli friends happy. Its becoming mission impossible. 

The pipeline from Iran to Pakistan/india was also shot down for that reason by US interests. But now there are rumblings of another route from Turkmenistan to Pakistan. 

Russia of course is pushing Khazakistan to open up the flow to India via that region. China is now helping PAkistan to make the Himalaya access more broad autoroute. 

The emergence of Kurd state is obviously a long thought out game plan of US interests; which will NOT please the Turks! 

Divide n rule! 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:15 | 2717874 supermaxedout
supermaxedout's picture

Yes its not pleasing the Turks at all. Thats why they do more or less nothing to bring Assad down. Besides that it would be a terrible mistake by the Turks to get involved in a war without the need to do so. It would only endanger their economic success story which is still very much alive.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:18 | 2717902 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Nice summation.You're right,Keep It Simple Stupid.

Cutting through the smokescreens of the "Great Game" of empire is deliberatley difficult.

I also think that the likelyhood of nukes being be positioned in Iran is great.

The US had no knowledge of the tactical nukes in Cuba at the time of the Bay of Pigs,in

spite of considerable HUMINT.They have little HUMINT in Iran.

The US lost in that crisis,whatever the revisionist history

now portrays.

This is one hornets nest that should not be poked.

The Iranians thankfully have not been provoked by the Acts of War already committed.

Israel is a very dangerous wild card that will probably act before the election while they

still have leverage.My guess is September.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:26 | 2718011 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

The solution: Bring the Kurdish oil through Syria to the European markets. Its the shortest way and at the same time it would eliminate Russias presence in the Mediterrean Sea.


Who is going to make the Russians leave? I think they are quite happy to be there.

You think the US (or anyone else) is going to get all Marshall Dillon and tell em to clear out by sundown?

That's funny.

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