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Guest Post: So Where In The World Is Safe?

Tyler Durden's picture


From Simon Black of Sovereign Man

So Where In The World Is Safe?

Yesterday’s letter about social upheaval received a lot of comments, and I want to address the major themes today.

First, ‘Simon the White’ wrote: “You imply that it’s not just the USA, but that all Western countries are screwed. Where will the contagion end? You appear to be arguing ‘expatriate at all costs,’ but if things are bad enough that there is rioting in the USA, where on earth will be safe?”

To summarize yesterday’s letter, I view social upheaval as a foregone conclusion– it’s already happening around the world, and is a direct consequence of deteriorating economic conditions. In the developed world, social upheaval is a gigantic pyre desperately seeking a spark.

I recommend having a place outside of your home country as an escape pad, but I recognize that many people either cannot or do not want to leave– at least, not yet. Even those who are aware of the problems are still comfortable at home.

I think this is fine… as long as you HAVE A PLAN.

The funny thing about the boiling frog is that every day, the pot gets a little bit warmer. First they start by fondling 5-year old girls at the airports, then it’s train stations. Train stations become bus stations, bus stations become shopping malls, etc.

This erosion of civil liberty and economic opportunity is a slippery slope, and only YOU know your breaking point. Having a plan ensures that, when you reach your breaking point and/or social upheaval hits, you’ll at least know exactly where to go and what to do when you get there.

This is not a decision you’ll want to make while packing your suitcase.

To Simon the White’s point, where will it be safe if there’s rioting in the streets of the United States? To be perfectly frank, it’s not the rioting that I’m concerned about. It’s the government response to the rioting.

Certain countries (and the US is near the top of the list) will have a Mubarak-style response to social upheaval. When you see wide-scale riots in the streets of Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, you’d better believe that all available police forces will show up in full combat gear to squash the protestors.

Politicians will denounce participants as a ‘fringe minority of criminals’ and laud the police for their courage and professionalism. That’s when the real fun will begin… ‘cuz if you think you’re living in a police state now, just wait until they tighten the screws in response to mass riots. It’ll be an all-out war.

I acknowledge that some countries which are ‘stable’ today will probably experience their own problems in the future. There are four key differences to bear in mind, though-

First, what is the level of dependence that the country (or specific location) has on the outside world? Is it like the tiny nation of Palau that has to import everything, or is it like Chile, which is largely self-sufficient? The more dependent, the more potential for nasty upheaval. The US is OK here.

Second, are there existing tensions within society, particularly among race or class? Countries with an expansive gap between rich and poor are going to be the first to break. With the erosion of the middle class in North America and Western Europe, this is becoming a great concern.

Third, what is the level of violence and criminality in the culture? Is it a society that deals with turmoil in a calm, stoic way (Japan), or do people go postal? In the US, there is certainly historical evidence (Hurricane Katrina, LA riots) which suggests that pockets of the country could become unglued.

Fourth, what is the expected government response? Does the government have a massive military or paramilitary force that will violently crush protestors or impose some state of martial law? Again, this is what I view as the greatest threat in the US.

Bottom line– I’m not suggesting that everyone simply pick up and go, damn the consequences; thinking people need to weigh the options carefully against their own situation and craft a very deliberate action plan, including a clear idea of where to go in case you reach your breaking point.

Chile is one place that I recommend, and I’ll address the ridiculous coverage of the protests there next week. Andorra is another great example.

Next, Hamsterdreams writes, “A lot of us reading your articles are already too poor to have a second home in another country! What can we do?”

Here’s the deal. The traditional recipe for success is pretty much dead. ‘Working your way up the ladder’ just isn’t an option anymore. The best way to improve your cash position is to learn a skill that’s valuable to other people– so valuable, in fact, that they’re willing to pay you for it.

This could be anything, ranging from learning a foreign language to certifying rare coins to growing organic vegetables in people’s backyards. Think about how you see the future and then consider what services will be in demand based on that vision. Learn how to provide those services.

Also, if you don’t have much money, you’ll find that the opportunities to provide valuable services and create wealth are often greater overseas where the economy is growing and the market is not already saturated with competitors.

To give you an example, in July’s Sovereign Man: Confidential I wrote about some great opportunities in Kosovo. I even offered to co-finance them if a highly qualified person demonstrated interest. No one has taken me up on the offer.

Last thing to bear in mind: if you’re low on cash, remember that your living costs can be reduced dramatically overseas. If you’re barely surviving on $2,000 per month, you can live quite well in places like Ecuador on $1,000 per month.


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Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:15 | 1577699 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

I'm thinking about putting on the long DRV long FAS trade, both trading at about 13ish.  I figure next week one goes from 13 to 6 and the other goes from 13 to 50... can someone talk me out of this one?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:22 | 1577735 maxmad
maxmad's picture

ahhh... "stradling" the tight rope... Normally doesn't end well... But what do I know...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:31 | 1577768 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I think if you want to play it that way, options might be the better way to play it since you can put less money in and have greater upside potential and limited downside.

just my .02

as an example: following yesterdays ZH prediction that the HPQ "good news" release ahead of their earnings was an indication of truly shitty earnings and guidance to come (which was a spot on call by the way) taking a small out of the money put position in HPQ say in the $25 range, would have netted you anywhere from a 3500-5000% gain today. that does not suck.

Just keep an eye out for such opportunities. They are out there. And sometimes, ZH can give you the heads up on it. Like in the case of HPQ.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 21:32 | 1582576 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

Derivatives need to be outlawed.  Trading needs to be limited.  All financial planners need to be recycled into plant managers in solar energy plants.  90% of service workers need to be transferred plants that make products (renewable energy products).  All investment banks need to be beheaded, and their heads put on a stick.

   Sock traders are a blight on mankind (speaking as one myself).  Give it up, dude, and become an electrician...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:17 | 1577708 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

According to a CNBC poll this morning, 47% of people are voting for their mattress...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:23 | 1577740 maxmad
maxmad's picture

National Bank of Serta, Bitchez!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:24 | 1577748 maxmad
maxmad's picture

The Bernank hates that bank!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:23 | 1578013 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Chief sorry he no be here for long moon. Chief been busy with young sqaw.

Chief say buy land:

And avoid dangerous derivative exposure.

I am The Chief

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:15 | 1578238 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

National Bank of Mother Earth!!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:17 | 1577710 Badabing
Badabing's picture

Don't worry, Bank of america will help us out!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:19 | 1577718 Lazane
Lazane's picture

living through chaos described above in the us is a better scenario than the chaos already rearing its ugly head elsewhere, if you leave your location, there is a good chance that you will never return. no place like home.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:20 | 1577719 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Believe me! If it would ever get hot arround here => PLANE => OUTA HERE!

I've got enough liquid assets to make the move and all Visa's for the family are valid for another 4.5 years.

Next year, I'll already renew them back to 5 years.

I had this in mind already 2 years ago to move out if needed.


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:07 | 1580074 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Call Simon. Kossovo beckons.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:23 | 1580125 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

but where would you go, you little green eraser?

if you were smart . . . you would already be there.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:21 | 1577726 PaperBugsBurn
PaperBugsBurn's picture

Hey, what happened to this story:


and it's gone from the twitter feed as well?????

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:26 | 1577763 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Lunch time for The Bernank.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577778 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

article right here

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:31 | 1577800 Dingleberry Jones
Dingleberry Jones's picture

That's the cached version. His point is, why has that story been removed? WTF?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:33 | 1577817 PaperBugsBurn
PaperBugsBurn's picture

WTF is going on???  ZH selling out?


but it's not cached and all the other ZH stories are??????????????????????????/


Head Of Citi Global Equity Markets: The Market Wipeout Cometh Share  Share

From: Zero Hedge

9:43am - August 19, 2011

And so another bank steps up calls for a market crash (and push for the logical Fed response which would be, well, you know the story). Market commentary from Citi's head of equity trading who just said that "in absence of any earth shattering news flow we trade to the lows for a proper test of sentiment." Yes, you read that right: US banks are now openly demanding a market crash simply to force the Chairsatan's hand. To: Undisclosed recipientsSubject: [Citi]: EQUITY MARKETS - "SOME COLOUR FROM GLOBAL HEAD OF EQUITY TRADING" => MARKET COMMENTARY - The price action in banks is horrendous again today - the sector feels broken and I am blaming politicians .  I am sure you have seen a number of plausible explanations ahead of options expiry to explain the technical factors and all sorts of stories about funding, which are more sector specific, and of course the need to liquidate bec...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:59 | 1577934 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

It is far more likely to be a server burp:

This thread on Apple was having the same issues, and was providing Access Denied when trying to open it (this was mid-way through reading it).

I suspect there's a code issue at fault.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:32 | 1577816 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Citi Bank SUCKS!!!

Great Info Grab!! Thanks!!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:31 | 1577790 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Cit Banks Legal does NOT agree with the 1st amendment..

and Tyler.. unlike Citi Bank.. does NOT have an un-limited amount of Tax Dollars to WASTE on bullshit Esquires!

.25% FED Window.. + Bail-Outs.. Plus a Billion Dollar Legal Team..

Equals the 1st amendment is to expensive to protect for those of us that are not on the Lobby Gravey Train!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:50 | 1578389 Bay Area Guy
Bay Area Guy's picture

Unfortunately for the US, I agree with you.  We have free speech so long as someone in authority says we do, then we don't.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:51 | 1580718 edotabin
edotabin's picture

I would slightly adjust that. We have freedom of speech as long as there isn't a significant audience. It works better this way because the idiots can continue to believe they can speak freely yet never have an impact.

Now that the internet has raised the level of human consciouness astoundingly within the past ten years, all of a sudden it (free speech/internet) is the reason for the revolts and violence etc. Some governments are considering shutting down services like twitter, facebook etc. during times of violence.  CNN did a whole segment on it.

Funny how they all badmouth China for the internet restrictions but when push comes to shove the "WEST" seeks to do exactly the same thing.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:22 | 1577730 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Underground, bitchez...

Hollow Earth.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:23 | 1577738 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

A lot of the choice of where to go depends on what ones desired living condition is. If you seek a large metropolitan city, you'll be much more limited in terms of finding a place that is truly a safe haven from the madness.

If you like sparsely populated remote places where you can largely fen for yourself if you so chose to and won't be bothered much, the options multiply rapidly.

It's a lifestyle choice.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:40 | 1578088 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

You're dead on.  It's a lifestyle choice.  I made it long ago (maybe I hit my breaking point easier?), and moved to very rural southwest Virginia of all places.  It might as well be a different country from the more populous parts of the USA.  We have just about zero crime -- everyone knows everyone, and most of us are proficient with firearms, and that takes care of that.  Being so sparse, we don't have much in the way of government either -- we can go beat up all 5-6 of them if they get out of line.  The state and feds ignore us -- too tiny to bother stealing from, regulating and doing government types of infrastructure for.  We had a neighborhood watch before that term existed, we call it the LOL gossip network (Little Old Lady in this case).  Everyone has security as a priority, as so far out in the sticks, no one will see someone opening up your house with a chainsaw, so we pay attention to who is where and are they a stranger...not in a bad way, just to be aware.

I make my own electricity, all solar PV and backup generator.  I could have been on the grid, but then I'd have to comply with and get building permits -- this way the tax savings on the hom^H^H^H^ barns I've built pays for the system every year all by itself.  I have a lot of acres (about 50 at last count) springs, hills, trees, meadows, grow a bunch of my own food, maintain a herd of deer for hunters to collect and feed me, and run my businesses from here -- almost, but not quite self-sufficient.

I didn't do this because I thought the mad max world was on the way, or anything like.  I just got disgusted with being a defence contractor/intelligence analyst up in DC, had some friends here in this area, and simply pulled the plug on the dog-eat-dog lifestyle in favor of friends and neighbors who like helping each other.  It's so different than what the normal person lives in or through that it's pretty hard to get across.

Thus, I'd say the premise of the article is flawed.  Why wait?  It's a better life now!  We'll never have riots here in Floyd -- not enough people or roads to bring them in quick enough!  We do get our musical instruments and beer together once in awhile....We won't sit still for fondling, and the cops know it and we outnumber them and they know that too, and live here with us.  Why fly someplace when you already live in what's practically an incarnation of the garden of Eden as is?

Sure, it's a PITA to have to drive 50 miles (the first 25 might be real twisty and not all paved) to the nearest decent city to buy certain things we can't get locally.  So, do it once a year, or once a month if you're a bad planner.

I takes awhile to get set up like I am.  Waiting till the last moment is a fools move, maybe like waiting till today to buy gold.  You'd have to make some friends, learn how to live in the country (it's real different and takes different skills) and so on.  But the payoff is NOW.  Sure, instead of making 100k in the '70s in DC, I now make barely that here -- but since the cost of living is 1/10th there,,,,I'm rich!  Hard for a city dweller to understand, in the right places, land is sill 2-4k/acre in large lots.  Building a house can be done for 30k or so if you swing the hammer some yourself.  Food is, well, sometimes you have to pretend not to be home to avoid getting a free pickup truck full of vegetables...I get deer meat free for letting hunters hunt my spread.  Electricity, water, sewage, all free.  Heat is from my woodlot.

I should probably STFU as it's nice now, and if everybody tries to do this, it would ruin it.  I think I can count on human ignorance and inertia to protect me though.  Most people simply lack the balls to pull up stakes and try something really new after all.  It's as if they had something to lose by so doing.  You can count on a lot of denial there usually.

So, I trade and write software all day, party all night, cut wood and garden in between, and play music in the woods to entertain the wildlife.  How's your day by comparison?  Why wait?  Just surviving bad times is one goal sure, but what if effectively you're already surviving times much worse than I experience just because you're where you are now?  Why not start having a good life regardless of what's happening in some big city full of losers?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:36 | 1578332 Rbh110
Rbh110's picture

Great post.  Just what I want to do in Wyoming and leave the People's Socialist Repurblic of Massachusetts.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:54 | 1578403 AugmentedFourth
AugmentedFourth's picture

Great post man! You obviously know what's up!

I grew up in Northern Virginia. I understand EXACTLY why you got out. My folks still live there (begrudgingly & hopefully not much longer) and every time I visit it seems to have grown exponentially more crowded. I left in 2003...never moving back.

I live in Golden, CO now, which is a far cry from the applachians. However, it is one of the few "towns" left this close to Denver; Great community, neighbors-helping-neighbors, etc...

Anyway...code (and design electronics) here too. Trade a little bit with my retirement accounts and do allright. Just curious: How did you end up pulling the consultant in a remote location gig? That's basically where I want to head in the future. But I've got a sweet job for a small company right not into taking the plunge yet.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 15:17 | 1578483 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+1, You Sir, are Awesome.. Your protected simply because many/most people don't enjoy making things or taking care of themselves.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:06 | 1579006 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture



Dude. The first rule is....

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:05 | 1580423 dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

Sounds like heaven.  I live in the stix too, and this is the 2nd place in the stix I've lived, but in both places the govt. was still all over us for permits, so I'm jealous.  We also have too much police here for our population.  We have city, county, highway patrol & a drug task force.  Fema is also snooping around here lately.

I feel pretty safe that I can bug out if I need to though.  There is a large amount of national forest near me that I can disappear into if I need to.

I agree about the good life here in the stix though.  I work a lot growing and preparing food and educating the kids, but it is satisfying to be doing it all here.  Working in front of a computer under flourescent lights all day was killing me.  I need to move.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:47 | 1578379 Common_Cents22
Common_Cents22's picture

You must also consider culture, if you are a newly arrived American in a foreign culture, you could be an easy target.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 15:58 | 1578637 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Or bitterly disappointed when America slides downward to 3rd world conditions and you wonder to yourself WTF; why did I move here?!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:25 | 1577751 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Iceland, unless you don't like volcanos.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:12 | 1577792 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

...and living in utter darkness for 3 months out of the year...

don't get me wrong, Iceland is mad cool and the elves are fun.   i would highly recommend any person here who has some DI and time off to take a vacation there.   just don't be an asshole and the Icelandic people will share their warmth.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:50 | 1579211 JoeSexPack
JoeSexPack's picture

In Iceland now for a week.


This weekend is a huge End of Summer festival. Weather was mostly sunny today & about 70F, caught 4 whiting on a half-day boat. Friendly & honest people (left camera on tour bus & it was returned), very pretty girls, 1st World in all aspects, wide georaphic diversity & outdoor recreation options. English is a nearly universally spoken 2nd language.


That said, the weather changes fast, often windy & rainy, with 4 hour days in January. Many items like clothes & other imports can be wildly expensive ($500 for nylon Levi's jacket!). No crime to speak of, and mostly energy independent, but no oil would kill their fishing fleet.


On balance, I could get used to it, but I've never lived thru a dark northern winter. There are worse places.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:27 | 1577752 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"Last thing to bear in mind: if you’re low on cash, remember that your living costs can be reduced dramatically overseas. If you’re barely surviving on $2,000 per month, you can live quite well in places like Ecuador on $1,000 per month."

Very misleading... Unless you're exporting back to the motherland, your income will be substantially reduced.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:25 | 1577754 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I plan on riding my Silver to the Moon. I should be safe there.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:25 | 1577758 IBelieveInMagic
IBelieveInMagic's picture

Have you considered Tora Bora -- I hear they have some nice caves there...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 22:05 | 1579906 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

LOL!!! AND YOU WOULD NEVER BE FOUND---at least not by the US government-HAHAHAHA!!!!


All that aside, I like the Iceland idea.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:27 | 1577760 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Bed wetting liberals ! Avoid Socialist countries ! Shut up and live quietly amongst solid, conservative people ! Do not trust your future to living amongst people like yourself ! Holcomb, Kansas ? Free natural gas to warm your blood ! Monedas 2011 Liberals will be ridiculed by my wicked (if not funny) humour......IN COLD BLOOD !

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:34 | 1577827 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Spare us the Rambo routine. You guys are the first to hop on board and tow the party line when it's time to turn on your neighbors.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:53 | 1577899 Monedas
Monedas's picture

97% of whiny, control freak complaints to moderators are made by intolerant, wienie libs ! Thanks for seeing me first ! Monedas 2011 Liberal tolerance has a direct positive correlation to their control of the media ! I know liberals like every graceful curve of my penis glans and every little wrinkle of my scrotum !

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:39 | 1578082 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Seek help.  Seriously.  Or get back on your meds.  I certainly don't need some cretin on the internet telling me what to do.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:02 | 1578166 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

It is impossible to have any sort of rational discussion with anyone who refers to himself in third person. It's a very bad sign.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 16:00 | 1578646 andybev01
andybev01's picture

andybev01 would agree with that statement.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:48 | 1580459 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I think I recognize you from Turd's forum! the uncontrollable exclamation points are kind of a dead giveaway!  And spare us the homo routine!!!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:26 | 1577764 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Take my chances on an 1861 moment here in the US and plan to that tune. When the SHTF it is not realistic that the US will remain a contiguous 50 states. It is doubtful the feds would have the resources or the will power to crush a secession again. The only downside is whether the regime will call on foreign troops to do their bidding for them.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:53 | 1578131 BrosMacManus
BrosMacManus's picture

ooooh, an invsion of the fighting THAT back would be worth getting behind. Puts some perspective on our current kinetic actions.  

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:26 | 1577765 reefermadness
reefermadness's picture

The worst thing you can do is head off to a land where you don't know anyone, don't understand the culture, stick out like a sore thumb, best stay put in the environment you know and fight back. This article is for pussies.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:28 | 1577779 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I know a group of people that would disagree with you. Most of them now reside in mass graves scattered around Cambodia.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:12 | 1577966 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

"You got to know when to hold 'em;

know when to fold 'em;

know when to walk away;
and know when to run. . . "

- K. Rogers

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 22:21 | 1579948 bigkahuna
Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:13 | 1583672 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

God Bless Us Everyone.. We Are A Broken People Living Under Loaded Gun..

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:26 | 1580141 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Cambodian middle-class, like Ukrainian, was weaponless. So the bearers of the Jewish Ideology had an easy time killing them all. Not so in America...which is why PlutoJews and Jewpols (Bloomberg, Soros, Schumer, Feinstein, etc.) are so desperate for gun control. If they can't get it before system collapse, They - not Us - are doomed.  

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:49 | 1580462 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Pot Pot was a Jew?  Who knew?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577783 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture


Unless you have a starship, there's no where to run and no where to hide.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577788 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

"reefer" good point: nothing more depressing than living in "somebody else's country."

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 10:51 | 1580924 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Frankly, with every passing day this country feels more and more like "somebody else's country"

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:28 | 1577771 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Why flee... Lynching the government sanctioned pedophiles has to start at some point.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:28 | 1577772 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:28 | 1577774 jackvegas
jackvegas's picture

So let me get this straight.  When you see wide-scale riots in the streets of Cincinnati and Pittsburgh, you DON'T want all available police forces to show up?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577786 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Personally, I want cops shooting at rioters so the revolution can finally begin.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:42 | 1577877 European American
European American's picture

Personally, I want rioters shooting at cops so the revolution can finally begin.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:35 | 1583456 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Personally, I want to shoot rioters.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577794 DonnieD
DonnieD's picture

At first, yes.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:27 | 1578021 That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

Saw this on the local craigslist the other day, very interesting...

"The charter of the Old Town Longmont Militia would be extremely limited, as any good militia should be. The purpose of the militia would be solely to coordinate citizen-initiated protection of the homes, businesses, and residents of the Old Town and Downtown Longmont areas in the event of extreme strife or civil unrest. It is expected that activation of the militia would result only from these types of events:

-- Widespread looting, violence, or rioting within or near the boundaries of the militia.
-- Declaration of martial law by local, state, or federal authorities.
-- Unusual military activity within Boulder County.
-- "Terrorist" attacks within the State of Colorado.
-- Collapse of the United States Federal Government.
-- Severe natural disaster.
-- Declaration by local, state, or federal authorities of a "State of Emergency" within the boundaries of the militia.

These are the types of events we cannot expect or rely on our government or local law enforcement to wholly protect us from, and that demand a united citizen response, if for no other reason than to show solidarity as a community against those who may wish to do us harm, to make clear that Old Town Longmont is not "easy pickings" for crime or chaos. "Activation" of the militia simply means that members are put on standby notice of the triggering event and asked to prepare for further coordination of protective activities. The activities that would be undertaken would be dependent on the nature and severity of the crisis."

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:21 | 1578264 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Well that is interesting.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:42 | 1578364 EFNuttin
EFNuttin's picture

Note that from my own observations and talking with other folks here in Alabama, in the IMMEDIATE wake of the April 27 tornadoes that killed hundreds in this state, looting began right away, as did cops drawing guns; where there were cops to be found.  Every single resident I spoke with had things stolen by looters from the wreckage of either their homes, neighborhoods, or both.  All it took was some chaos, destruction, and loss of all utilities for looting to begin.  The looting finally stopped once the National Guard was fully deployed and had finished sweeping through the areas pounded by the tornadoes.

If you want some seriously scary stuff, look up accounts written by Hurricane Katrina survivors, particularly in the New Orleans area.  Before long, it was shoot first, ask questions later.  Odd that the original post doesn't bother to mention that, unlike most Western democracies, in the US of A, there are about 200 million firearms in private hands which changes the civil unrest calculus quite a bit.  I was amused watching a video of the recent London riots as nobody was wielding anything more intimidating than a stick.  In Alabama, someone would have been firing a 12-gauge at least into the air if not into the looters.  The old rule of thumb in Texas was, "One riot, one Ranger."  Now that Ranger is likely to have an armed Predator drone overhead and some sniper backup on the nearby rooftops.

Invest in brass and lead.  

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:54 | 1580465 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

I don't know what you are referring to re Katrina, but most of the worst crimes comitted just after the storm were perpetrated by the NOLA police deptartment.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 12:39 | 1583466 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

So that's who left all the bodies in the restrooms at the Superdome & the Convention Center? So that's who was firing at rescue boats & helicopters?

yeah, right.

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:18 | 1583678 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

The video you will see on this web site is horrifying. The crimes committed against law-abiding gun owners are beyond comprehension. The arrogance of anti-gun politicians and government officials and their hate of freedom will churn your stomach.

The law is the law, the Constitution is the Constitution. If ONE local mayor or police chief can decide what the Second Amendment means, it opens the door to tyranny—where ANY mayor or police chief can say what the Second Amendment means.

You've seen this brand of abuse of freedom in the history books—in the pages about days of gun confiscations leading to the terror of Stalin, Mao and Hitler. But you'd never in a million years think it could happen in America.
Well, it can and it did. And it will happen again unless we take action today.

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, Police Superintendent P. Eddie Compass unleashed a wave of confiscations with these chilling words:
"No one will be able to be armed. We will take all weapons. Only law enforcement will be allowed to have guns."

Thousands of firearms were then confiscated from law-abiding gun owners. The police gave no paperwork or receipts for those guns. They just stormed in and seized them.

With your help we're going to make the first time in New Orleans the LAST time in America. Thank you!

Now, one year later, these crimes against gun owners have snowballed into a far greater threat to our freedoms.
Even though NRA secured a court order demanding their immediate and unconditional return, almost every single confiscated firearm remains locked in government trailers.

With the stroke of a pen, Mayor Nagin and Police Superintendent Compass are getting away with "murder"—a savaging of the second, fourth and fourteenth amendments of our Constitution. And they have put America on notice that they're going to keep seizing lawfully owned guns under any pretense.

New Orleans gun owners are showing up at these trailers, with serial numbers of their firearms, expecting Mayor Nagin and his band of anti-gunners to respect the Federal courts.
They are met by stony-eyed bureaucrats who say serial numbers aren't enough—and that gun owners now need PROOF OF PURCHASE of these firearms.
How many of those gun owners do you think had original receipts for those firearms? And even if they did, how many do you think could find those receipts in the wreckage of a hurricane?
Many of these firearms were passed down from father to son, generation to generation. Some are precious heirlooms. Some are collector's pieces won in our wars. And they were all lawfully owned and they must be returned to their owners.
With your help we're going to make the first time in New Orleans the LAST time in America. Thank you!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 16:24 | 1578758 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

Honeypot link to attract, log, and eventually contain domestic terrorists.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:03 | 1578991 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture


all of those Christians who belive in the Bible and the Constitution of the Untied States need to be rounded up so the Mexican Labor can take our place.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:28 | 1577775 badameli
badameli's picture

lol Newfoundland Canada is safe. But the weather is garbage.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577796 Shirley Wilfahrt
Shirley Wilfahrt's picture

A seal walks into a bar and orders a whiskey. The bartender asks, "What kind of whiskey you want?"

"Anything but that fucking Canadian Club!"

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:55 | 1577924 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Rim shot.....(I did laugh though)

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:00 | 1577940 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The little bludgeoned fur seal pups now have a spokesperson ! Monedas 2011 I personally do not have to get drunk first before harvesting fur for humanity !

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 16:26 | 1578765 Mr Kurtz
Mr Kurtz's picture

I like Canada, especially their default national flag...three beavers pissing on a frog.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 16:28 | 1578766 Mr Kurtz
Mr Kurtz's picture

Double post, uhhh must be the server, couldn't be my fault!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:51 | 1577905 Stumpy
Stumpy's picture

With climate change, these will be awesome places to live. Except when you're too close from the water, which means about everyone there.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:30 | 1577789 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Gold. Nuff said. 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:31 | 1577801 PaperBugsBurn
PaperBugsBurn's picture

WTF is going on???  ZH selling out?


but it's not cached and all the other ZH stories are??????????????????????????/


Head Of Citi Global Equity Markets: The Market Wipeout Cometh Share  Share

From: Zero Hedge

9:43am - August 19, 2011

And so another bank steps up calls for a market crash (and push for the logical Fed response which would be, well, you know the story). Market commentary from Citi's head of equity trading who just said that "in absence of any earth shattering news flow we trade to the lows for a proper test of sentiment." Yes, you read that right: US banks are now openly demanding a market crash simply to force the Chairsatan's hand. To: Undisclosed recipientsSubject: [Citi]: EQUITY MARKETS - "SOME COLOUR FROM GLOBAL HEAD OF EQUITY TRADING" => MARKET COMMENTARY - The price action in banks is horrendous again today - the sector feels broken and I am blaming politicians .  I am sure you have seen a number of plausible explanations ahead of options expiry to explain the technical factors and all sorts of stories about funding, which are more sector specific, and of course the need to liquidate bec...

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:57 | 1577929 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

people don't seem to respond to your "zH selling out" posts

maybe they don't know

i know, but i can't tell you, b/c i don't know if you're s'posed to know, or not.  do you?  what would lizzy do if i wuz a rat?

i think you shld talk2tyler.  pick two and go4it!

  • Tips: tips [ at ]
  • General: info [ at ]
  • Legal: legal [ at ]


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:05 | 1579004 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Bro! I answered that idiot and so did like 10 other people..

he does not understand why the 1st Amendment of the Untied States is soooooooooooooo expensive to maintain when being sued by Citi Banc who has a 0.25% FED Window to draw down from as well as all the other stimulas dollars to throw into the fire.. to harass Tyler!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:59 | 1578152 Lazlo Toth
Lazlo Toth's picture

Um. Pardon. As far as I know... the editors may have decided to edit, change, or re-post the story.

Secondly, you are trying to start something.


Fourth - Troll.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:31 | 1577808 pods
pods's picture

Living near a nuke plant, we have a plan in place, getaway place and route, BOB, etc.  

If widespread panic ensues in the US it will be brutal.  The JIT delivery along with the entitlement mentality will cause the cities to burn.  Shit, in the US a circus team winning a championship in one sport or another is grounds for burning and pillaging.  It really is not a stretch in seeing that people will "feel" entitled to half or all of what you have, or whatever they might want off of your store shelf, without having to compensate you for it.  Hell in Katrina it was the cops doing alot of the pillaging.

Get as far away from a major city as you can, as fast as you can.  Cities also have the greatest police presence, and that might not be a good thing if you are not one of the herd.


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:37 | 1578074 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I heard that Galt's Gulch was nice this time of year.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 16:39 | 1578867 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Yes, but it has been damn hot here this summer.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 16:08 | 1578680 andybev01
andybev01's picture

What (or who) is BOB?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:13 | 1579048 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture







='s BOB.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:55 | 1579230 andybev01
andybev01's picture

I thought it was somethin' like that. ;-)

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:07 | 1579014 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

someone here shared this the other day!

all credit to the original poster!

Nuke Plants across the United States Map! PLUS!!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 19:56 | 1579591 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

They are not all nuke plants North Dakota does not have any nuke plants

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:20 | 1583684 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

FT Calhoun Nuclear plant and North Dakota Prepares for historic flooding

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 03:56 | 1580468 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

If you think you're safer in the country than in the city during a financial/social collapse, do some research on what happened in Argentina.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:34 | 1577830 Dingleberry Jones
Dingleberry Jones's picture

Yet another vacuous Simon Black post. 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:35 | 1577842 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

If you don't have the means to pick up and go to Chile or any one of several equally attractive potential bolt-holes, and are not likely to have the money to get there when TSHTF, AND if you have a college degree, there is one option most people never consider. You can quite easily get a job teaching English in Chile and many other attractive places around the world. In many cases all you need to have is a degree and be a native English speaker. If you have TEFL certification and teaching experience even better - but often not necessary. And there are inexpensive, short TEFL certification courses offered in many US cities as well as overseas. You can check out the large numbers of jobs ( including plenty in Chile) by visiting Dave's ESL Cafe

Pick the country you think will work for you and start applying for jobs there teaching English. You'll make enough to live well - not fancy - but most important you will already be there when TSHTF. AND any savings you already have will go a lot further there to supplement your salary than they would here. Plus you will already have a social network - nobody is that interested in helping refugees - and you'll also speak the language, be comfortable with the food, know how the 'system' works, etc.

I realize this isn't a solution for everybody, but it sure is for a lot more people than realize it. And (shameless plug) if you are thinking about living and working overseas,  I can offer an inexpensive ($2.99) little eBook titled 'Security Planning For Expatriates & Families" that might come in handy.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:37 | 1580174 Jorgen
Jorgen's picture

What is the use for e. g. Chileans to study English when the Anglo world economically collapses? Wouldn't say Mandarin be more practical? ;-)

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 07:44 | 1580644 Marco
Marco's picture

For accessing the knowledge locked up in English language publications.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 23:36 | 1580170 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

'cept when the tidal wave hits

Sun, 08/21/2011 - 14:25 | 1583697 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

'cept when Winter comes.. that lasts 9 months out of the year.. snow fall maybe 10 months but at least 9 months of the year with no mountain to ski!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:37 | 1577856 Civil Shepard
Civil Shepard's picture

Anyone up on underground military bases (UMBs) in key cities in the US?  Chicago's deep tunnel project, whose enormous layout is very secretive and whose purported purpose of flood control is an obvious sham, continues to be worked on for ten years now.     Makes me wonder about other large projects such as the Denver airport, the Boston big dig, the NY ground-zero rebuild.  

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:43 | 1577859 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

These expatriation rants almost always miss one important factor: FIREARMS!!

Fourth, what is the expected government response? Does the government have a massive military or paramilitary force that will violently crush protestors or impose some state of martial law? Again, this is what I view as the greatest threat in the US.

Don't be a party to the riots; problem solved?  If there is a country that will allow me to bring my significant arsenal along, without hassle, without registration, I'll reconsider expatriation.  Until then imho the best solution is a remote, self-reliant location within the uSA.

To be perfectly frank, it’s not the rioting that I’m concerned about. It’s the government response to the rioting.

This also seems a bit misplaced.  What percentage of the population is the government?  If widescale rioting breaks out they'll have their hands full and be overwhlemed, as was just demonstrated in London.  Not living in a crowded metro area, I am more concerned about large-scale social unrest that would result in brigands, starving bands of people roaming exiting the cities en masse and roaving rural areas, though I think this outcome is a low probability.

Bottom line - the most prudent action for those in the uSA still residing in metro areas is to have an appropriate retreat elsewhere within the uSA.   I don't envy those who'll be waiting in airports for international flights when the balloon goes up!


Defend yourselves! (easier to do at a well stocked retreat, with friends, family & similarly principled neighbors or with your carry-on and luggage at the airport or, if you make it, at your newly emmigrated foreign residence... with a baseball bat & knives?)


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:43 | 1577883 lesterbegood
lesterbegood's picture

Become part of the solution?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:44 | 1577887 Stumpy
Stumpy's picture

In this bleak future, is there some place for people who cain repair, programs or teach computer stuff?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:47 | 1577895 jackvegas
jackvegas's picture

In the late 30s there was a German family that saw the writing on the wall and decided to head for a safe haven to wait out the coming global conflict.  They chose a place with a small friendly indigenous population that was so far off the beaten path and of so little consequence that the world would surely overlook them.  The place they chose? Guadalcanal.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:51 | 1577906 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

There is no Away.  Pick the safest place for you and defend with your life.  And who says you might not be a force driving the social upheaval?

Best is to reinforce local community interconnections, especially blood family ties.  The author likes to talk about boiling frogs slowly.  One of my favorite first video games was Frogger.  Choose your death.  Everyone does.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:52 | 1577913 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Robinson Crusoe Island, formerly known as Juan Fernandez Island, Más a Tierra, or Aguas Buenas, is the largest island of the Chilean Juan Fernández archipelago.

Although I think I'd prefer Tierra del Fuego.

I'm learning to hate heat.

Learn to fish.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:55 | 1577925 European American
European American's picture

The best America can come up with for "rioting" are angry young blacks flash mobbing it. Everyone else is too busy being busy being distracted by their personal self indulging dramas. On the other hand, take away their prescription drugs, their junk food and their ability to stay transfixed on texting and we may have Burn Baby Burn!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:09 | 1577967 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Flash Mob Robbing worked out quite well in the UK - the trick is that US citizens are too conditioned now.

But you're right, it was tested on the US market, and failed due launch into something more than unauthorised shopping.





Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:57 | 1577928 madbuilder
Fri, 08/19/2011 - 12:59 | 1577939 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Cheyenne mountain. They have great entertainment. 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:04 | 1577948 youngman
youngman's picture

I live in Medellin Colombia....great country....we have ore...and more to be found..we have a new refinery...lots of hydro electric with more on the way...we grow our own food...good beer and rum...meat is iffy...great chicken and pork though....great internet and phones...and beautiful women...good when hell hits....we can survive....

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:21 | 1577975 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:12 | 1577979 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Totally agree with the above Cali Columbia is better dont you think. Either is a great place to be a minor feudal lord in the new new world order

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:41 | 1578358 Truthiness
Truthiness's picture

what do you do for work in medellin?

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 20:03 | 1579616 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

facilitate the export of Cocaine; or starve.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 15:30 | 1578526 Fred C Dobbs
Fred C Dobbs's picture

And the best women in the world.  

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:04 | 1577949 mirac
mirac's picture

Chile...Nope!  Too much quake,tsunami and volcano threats-same as Phillipines or Indonesia.  Canada, Spain, south of France, Brazil, Argentia, Uraguay, EquadorColombia, Venezuela-all interior.  South away from nuclear fallout should that scenario happen.  Don't know Africa well enough to discuss

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:43 | 1578366 Rbh110
Rbh110's picture

Namibia.  Some European influence as former German outpost.  Large country with a very small population.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:11 | 1577972 glokk26L
glokk26L's picture

One thing to also ponder is local ordnances for firearms ownership.

My part of the US is pretty good.

Most foreign nations treat ownership as a "privelege" reserved for those who have some coinage, and carry would be "verboten."

Unless one can finance security guards, who would be allowed to tote a blaster to watch one's back.

My part of the world, one who hasn't the funds can still watch their own back as best they can.

In Chile... I believe you can own some things, but ponder that as a privelege and likely only for citizens, not visitors or "new residents".

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:56 | 1578112 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>One thing to also ponder is local ordnances for firearms ownership.

In most places there is an ordinance prohibiting ordnance.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:11 | 1577973 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

I do fear the police state trying to crush the upheaval. Those will be difficult times. But that aint my worst fear. Considering the level of political and economic ignorance that is driving the populace, what I fear the most is that a successful upheaval will end up in a Robespierre-esque era.

Most people (including many here on ZH) think that the rip-off being exercised on the masses is a result of capitalism. Thus when the masses are finished with the politicians and banksters, they will turn their attention to the system that they see as the culprit, i.e. the free market (as if such a thing ever existed) and they will do its exact opposite.

The war of ideas was the most important war but it is lost already. Just like a cancer spotted too late, socialism is already too deeply settled into the people's minds. There is hardly any turning back from that.

Sat, 08/20/2011 - 08:23 | 1580687 Marco
Marco's picture

I have nothing against the market, I have something against lack of regulation of shared resources (among which unfortunately is land, making the whole anarcho capitalist ideal so much unworkable trash ... if there was an infinity of land to homestead anarcho capitalism would work fine, but there isn't). The market is necessary to allocate resources and retain personal freedom, government intervention in the market is necessary to preserve the environment and retain opportunity and fair access to natural resources. Was Locke a socialist? (ie. the Lockean Proviso.)


The banksters and politicians were merely figure heads doing the bidding of the billionaires in the background, who have accumulated most wealth from the government mediated theft. Do you really think a free society can result from leaving all that stolen wealth in place, and even more creating an environment where rentseeking based on that wealth is actively encouraged? Ultimately these people hid their theft too well for courts to claw it back.


To the poor there is precious little difference between the state and a landlord.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:17 | 1577993 Chief KnocAHoma
Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Chief sorry he not be here for a long moon. Chief been busy with nice sqaw.

Chief say buy land in safe area:

And avoid high risk derivatives exposure.

I am The Chief

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:18 | 1577996 glokk26L
glokk26L's picture

Right now, blasters, ammo, food, and silver are cheap.  Water filters, tools, and seeds.

My advice, buy some.

Ponder body armor as well.

I try, daily, to envision what items I am dependent upon others for, and to hedge accordingly.

For some of us.... diapers, wipes, and clothing in a few larger sizes are a good idea for people with small kids.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 21:10 | 1579771 delacroix
delacroix's picture

get a sewing machine, under $100. nothing wrong with wearing patched pants, or altering hand- me- downs


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:21 | 1578008 gall batter
gall batter's picture

I would never leave for many reasons, adult children, dog Trooper, and not enough cash.  But would like info:  I have a heavy gold bracelet.  Some sentimental value but I'm a recovering sentimentalist. Should I sell and buy silver with the money?  Or just hang on to the bracelet?    

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:52 | 1578110 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

FWIW I would hang on the the bracelet unless you can get the actual value of the gold from it if you sell. Most shops will only give fifty cents on the dollar for 24k, and even less for the value of 18k or 14k, and if it isn't stamped forget about it as you will definitely get shafted.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:17 | 1578244 gall batter
gall batter's picture

A couple of months ago, I took it to a jeweler who buys gold.  He said he'd give me $2300. plus for it.  Can't remember, exactly.  

Thanks for the advice.  

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:24 | 1578015 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

Hi AS,

I'm already overseas, have been for several years.  I think your suggestion is a good one, and is very doable.  Will be downloading the ebook shortly.  I'm an electronics technician by trade but in a collapse situation I'm guessing there won't be much work around.  I also sew but if I have to travel light, the supplies will have to stay behind.  The English teaching is something I can do anywhere with low overhead on my part.   Even if I can't get a proper teaching job, I can still do tutoring, even 'tutoring for food' if it comes down to it.  Any suggestions you can give are greatly appreciated.


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:54 | 1578405 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

English teaching!!!! may be chinese will help.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:29 | 1578039 automato
automato's picture

You sound like Butch Cassidy. Let's go to Bolivia! The reality is if the WORLD does enter a serious downturn, nationalism will surge especially in those places deemed safe. Another unexpected occurence will be persecution of foreigners whose home countries are experiencing the worst of the downturn. Good Luck being an American begging for asylum! "And how much money do you have exactly, Senor?" 

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:17 | 1578242 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

No need to leave this country -- just get really rural.  There won't be riots, it's nice NOW...that other stuff is fantasy.  And don't wait for a breaking point, do it now if you see it coming, it takes awhile to get all set up nicely.  Might as well ive a good life no matter what the external situation is for those who stupidly crowd too many together in the tiny cages we call cities.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:33 | 1578057 gwar5
gwar5's picture


If you can't buy your own expatriate get away, network with people that can or already have.  For many owners, it's nice to have a paying renter and someone to watch the place when the other is traveling. It's also possible to have a network fo 3-4 places for the seasons, or have your own place and swap. Build your network now.


Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:36 | 1578070 JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

Very interesting post here. Kinda rules out Argentia and South America in general for me.

New Zealand propably the best choice, I hear Chenney has a big spread there.

Austrialia another good choice.

Thailand is cheap and food never going to be scarce.

Austria is another small country thats very self sufficent.

I live in Canada and while it may be a good pick on the surface, we are joined at the hip with the US. If the USA breaks we will get creamed in the fall.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:57 | 1578144 bernorange
bernorange's picture

Thailand and most of the Pacific Rim is sensitive to the price of Rice just like the Arab Spring was sensitive to the price of wheat.  $.02 (FWIW)

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 14:40 | 1578352 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Nonsense! If the USA breaks, central Canada will get creamed, the rest not so much.

Ontario, Quebec along with parts of NB, and NS will be under presure because of their proximity to large US population centers. Right in the path of refugee streams, plus Vancouver to some extent.

Remember Canada is huge! There's a lot more to it then the 300 mile strip along the southern border. The first Winter here would be enough to seperate the wheat from the chaff! Anyone left over come the second Summer would have "earned" the right to be here, by way of self sufficentcy. These are the people who would be welcome. The rest would blow away as chaff has a preponderence to do.

Canada will do better than most locals in a "Mad Max" sort of world, which I don't see occuring. Or should I say a small chance of occuring - as in 5%.   

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 20:10 | 1579645 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

St range to read your post; It agrees completely with my observations. New Zealand is comatose; which is just fine. Australia; tropical regions around Brisbane, or Perth for that matter; super. Completely different psychology. As soon as you leave the US, the current military empire, the feeling changes. The desperation and the paranoia go away. Austria also, excellent, but of course right in the middle of the traditional power grabbing and war games in Europe; but for culture vultures; superb.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 21:22 | 1579790 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

I bugged out to New Zealand in '06.  The type of community you are looking for is plentiful, especially on the South Island.  NZ has a food surplus, plenty of water, grass fed livestock, low population density, and very low corruption.  It is large but isolated enough to have many companies making products locally.  Civil liberties are in decline but they still have a long way to fall.  The nanny state, green tape, and growing debt are problematic but I can think of much worse places as far as socialism goes.  I would give it at least a couple decades before the pigmen ruin this country. 

NZ Immigration has been tightening the immigration requirements recently but you might still be able to get in.  I could offer a crash pad if you make it to Auckland.  Email valis rising (all one word) at gmail dot com.  I don't check this email often but will check it in the next few days.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 20:13 | 1579652 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

Nakusp, BC, Okanagan Valley; small holdings listed as farming properties; practically no property tax. You can just hear about the problem on the radio; and then go fishing the next day.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:45 | 1578101 1000yrdstare
1000yrdstare's picture

My opinion, find a rural location (in your current country) water\food\shelter\security\silver\gold. I try to also find ways of becoming as self sufficient as possible, The auto problem is a sticking point for me now, I have to travel to far from work, although if the SHTF I don't think I will be rollin out to the job.

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 13:54 | 1578134 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

whereever you go, there you are

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 15:19 | 1578482 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

you can run, but you cant hide


you cant go far, cause..


no matter where you go, there you are!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 15:21 | 1578492 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

I do my dirt.. all by my lonely!

Fri, 08/19/2011 - 17:09 | 1579031 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture


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