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Guest Post: The "Solution" Is Collapse

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

The "Solution" Is Collapse

So the root problem is the system, human nature, blah blah blah. There are no "solutions" that can fix those defaults. Thus the "solution" is collapse.

Policies create incentives and disincentives. Some are intended, some fall into the category of unintended consequences. Regardless of their intention, policies that create windfalls ("easy money") or open spigots of "free money" (or what is perceived as free money by the recipient) quickly gather the allegiance of everyone reaping the windfall or collecting the free money.

This allegiance is soon tempered into political steel by self-justification: humans excel at rationalizing their self-interest. Thus my share of the swag is soon "absolutely essential."

Humans don't need much incentive to pursue windfalls or free money--seeking windfalls in the here and now is our default setting. Taking the pulpit to denounce humanity's innate greed, avarice and selfishness doesn't change this, as seeking short-term windfalls has offered enormous selective advantages for hundreds of thousands of years.

That which is painful to those collecting free money will be avoided, and that which is easy will be pursued until it's painful. Borrowing $1.5 trillion a year from toddlers and the unborn taxpayers of the future is easy and painless, as toddlers have no political power. So we will borrow from the powerless to fund our free money spigots until it becomes painful.

It won't become painful to borrow from our grandkids for quite some time, and it will probably not become progressively painful, either, because we will suppress the pain with superlow interest rates and other trickery. The pain will more likely be of the sudden, unexpected, "this can't be happening to me" heart-attack sort: the free-money machine will unexpectedly grind to a halt in some sort of easily predictable but always-in-the-future crisis.

"Solutions" that turn off the free money spigots are non-starters, not just from self-interest but from ideology. Any attempt to tighten the spigots steps on ideological toes, as each spigot is ideologically sacred to one political camp or another.

Liberals don't want to hear about scamming of their sacred "we must help everyone in need" welfare programs, and conservatives don't want to hear about cartel looting of their sacred "free enterprise" system.

And so we have gridlock, what I call profound political disunity. Everybody at each trough of free money fights tooth and nail to keep their spigot wide open, and so the "solution" is to borrow 10% of the nation's output in "free money" every year until the free-money machine breaks down.

Each ideology worships their own version of cargo-cult economics: if we wave the dead chicken over the enchanted rocks while dancing the humba-humba, prosperity and abundance will magically return and we can "grow our way out of debt."

We're like a sprawling family bickering over the inheritance: we'll keep arguing over who deserves what until the inheritance is gone. That will trigger one final outburst of finger-pointing, resentment and betrayal, and then we'll go do something else to get by.

The "solution" is thus collapse. This model has been very effectively explored in The Upside of Down: Catastrophe, Creativity, and the Renewal of Civilization by Thomas Homer-Dixon. The basic idea is that when the carrying costs of the society exceed its output, the whole contraption collapses.

The political adjunct to this systemic implosion is that the productive people just stop supporting the Status Quo because it's become too burdensome. The calculus of self-interest shifts from supporting the bloated, marginal-return Status Quo to abandoning it.

So the root problem is the system, human nature, blah blah blah. There are no "solutions" that can fix those defaults. The "solution" is collapse, as only collapse will force everyone to go do something more sustainable to get by.

Until then, arguing about "solutions" is a sport to be enjoyed sparingly.


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Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:41 | 2507496 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Rand Paul Endorses Romney...



collapse imminent...........

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:41 | 2507503 jcia
jcia's picture

<----Infiltrate the GOP establishment
<----Wants to progress in his political career

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:46 | 2507513 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

The "bickering" results in the inheritance being SPENT on lawyers, accountants, etc., not just dissipated into the ether.


WE lose, THEY win.


Same as it ever was . . .

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:51 | 2507533 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Nuclear false flag attack on US soil currently underway:

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:55 | 2507556 Manthong
Manthong's picture

People don’t want to step out of their comfort zone and deal with reality, CHS.. 

Speaking of stepping out, isn’t it time for “Humba-Humba with the Stars”?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:09 | 2507607 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Seems to me the USS Librty echo has begun.

Not good at all. Be well everyone...


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:45 | 2508214 Michael
Michael's picture

I've been thanking God on this site for the complete and total worldwide economic collapse since ZH started a few years ago.

It's the only solution.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:10 | 2508935 gwiss
gwiss's picture

Nietzsche: "that which is about to fall deserves to be pushed" -- the premise of Atlas Shrugged, no?  So.  Whose gonna be our Ragnar Danneskjold or our Francisco d'Anconia?  If Bill Gates wanted to do some good, he'd quit pissing his money down a hole in Africa and instead help push the reset button -- he'd be a hero for ages, rather than being forgotten within 50 years of his death the way he is headed now.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:54 | 2509235 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

BillyGoatGates supports the globalist agenda via his "Foundation" for aerosol delivery of "vaccines" and whatever else shit he can spray humanity with.

fuck Gates, and the Trojan horse buggy system he rode in on.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:06 | 2509466 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

very good article

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:09 | 2511133 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

10% of GDP is added to debt each year, which given that debt is currently at 100% of GDP means that debt is essentially growing at 10% per year while GDP grows at less than 2% per year.  So the economy doubles in roughly 35 years while the debt doubles in 7 years.  

Yeah, sounds like a sustainable path to me.


What would be nice to hear just once is a serious discussion of the evils of baseline budgeting.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 14:28 | 2510566 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

Please do not lower Nietzsche by mentioning him in the same breath as that idiot Rand.  She's a clown, the same people who used her to attract idiots like you to their cause laughed at her stupidity behind her back.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 19:11 | 2511134 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Sorry to break the bad news, but Nietzsche is dead.  God has the last laugh.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:07 | 2511217 gwiss
gwiss's picture

Interesting that you should respect Nietzsche, whom I respect as well, yet on the basis of no understanding of my personal philosophy whatseover decide that I must be an idiot.  Care to expand?

There is also a big difference between Rand's philosophy, which is incomplete and therefore stillborn and lifeless, and her novels, which are quite penetrating studies into the routes by which society becomes parasitized and eventually collapses.  Philosophy was not her strong point, that was a bridge too far for her.  She was able to understand people and human nature in a way that remained almost subconscious for her -- she was able to replicate the progression of the disease of the tragedy of the commons without ever being able to consciously spell out exactly what philosophical errors were being made when it was pursued.



Sat, 06/09/2012 - 09:24 | 2509995 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

And "they're" letting the collapse happen while they stuff "theirs" into tax havens.  Nobody knows better than "they" do how this is all going to end.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 09:36 | 2510007 kentmills
kentmills's picture

Michael - you're right.  The Federal Reserve system, Agenda 21 edicts, IMF scams, etc. won't go away on their own.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:57 | 2507568 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I read that...I'd sure like to have more information. That's awfully close to home.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:09 | 2507608 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

Selective disasters causing a consolidation of the population to small areas in preparation for evacuation by flying saucers.

(It is Friday isn't it???)

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:39 | 2507699 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Chicago was on high alert a few weeks ago. They were planning on major evac of the whole city.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:03 | 2507589 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

Alex Jones is a disinformation asshole. Fuck Alex Jones...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:56 | 2507991 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

Some of his news flashes are alarmist, but by and large you don't hurt yourself by mining his websites for useful information. Doesn't mean you have to believe he is the next Paul Revere, just that even if his main motivation is capitalizing on the growing survivalist/prepper movement, he still highlights events of significant concern that the corrupt MSM will never tell you about.

Maybe he's a sincere believer, maybe he's just a psy-op frontman for the spook branch of the NWO. I know that I've been helped towards my current state of awareness by guys like him, Jim Sinclair, James Rawles, Bob Chapman (RIP), Gonzalo Lira, and of course Ron Paul.

They are sources and influences, but in the end we're the captains of our own intellectual ships.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:34 | 2508161 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

More of a cult "leader", frankly. Whether or not a thousand years of Western civilization can survive a hundred years of mass TV media remains to be seen.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:15 | 2507630 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Ordered by the Kenyan Peace Prize Alciada agent osama bin obama

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 14:32 | 2510576 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

You're just sad because the real terrorist tricked bush into attacking Aphghanistan to bankrupt our country.  News flash, Bin Laden won, the game was over before the Kenyan took office.  It's been extend and pretend since then.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:34 | 2507681 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Very sad and disturbing, but bullish for cancer centers and Service Corp. Intl...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:59 | 2507755 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

If this were a false flag - why sanitize media reports?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:18 | 2508091 pods
pods's picture

So how much did the Pentagon misplace this time?


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 09:33 | 2510005 ootofthehoos
ootofthehoos's picture

Here is the audio of someone calling NRC hotline over it:

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:47 | 2507523 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Obama's election to lose, sadly. The only good part being collapse will happen sooner rather than later with Obama. Next four years will not be kind for the political elites.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:04 | 2507594 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

These things are not won or lost, they are decided. Stay home it won't even matter. Obama is a lock.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:05 | 2507597 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

is Oprah still backing Ogolfer?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:01 | 2508009 Ace Ventura
Ace Ventura's picture

I thought so too, until the recent word that Flip Romulan was seen at the Build-a-Burger conference. Since Flip is nothing but a pure vanilla version of Barry O, I think the establishment is quite pleased to select him as their puppet of choice.

It's quite possible that they soured on Barry because he truly and demonstrably doesn't really give a fuck about the job.....other than the considerable perks. Those he clearly enjoys.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:03 | 2509259 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Romney goes to the 'Bergers, and then Rand Paul endorses him.

interesting times.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:43 | 2507641 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

correct, as usual, baby_B

lotsa radiation just SE of you recently, so i am advising caution 4 you&yers

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:02 | 2507588 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

---> would vote for anyone besides Obama

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:07 | 2508039 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

anyone? sure but not anything.  Romney is some sort of failed fucking lab experiment.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:36 | 2508170 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

At least the alternative to the Hawaiian Allende are not actively undermining the country, as the "Great Destroyer" is doing.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:23 | 2509403 PersonalRespons...
PersonalResponsibility's picture

Both; one helps the other.


The question is, do you believe or have you given up?


Actions speak louder than words.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:45 | 2507514 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

That crushes my hopes that RP would run as an Independent. I'm not going to set myself on fire but I am really, REALLY PISSED!!!!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:46 | 2507522 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'm still writing him in.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:52 | 2507543 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

I'm thinking everyone should write themselves in as an act of screw you all rebellion. At least then they will see how many votes they missed and not because we were to lazy to go vote.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:03 | 2507591 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Sounds like an interesting idea. But I'd sure like to shake the establishment to their knees and show them we aren't going to stand for the choice between two of the same ilk.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:12 | 2507620 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

Me too but I'd at least like to know that his own flesh and blood has the same convictions that I do. Maybe he is playing the game but I DON'T WANT TO PLAY and I'd have more respect for him if he didn't either.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:22 | 2507640 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Agreed. But I had my reservations when watching them being interviewd side by side. Rand would tread lightly on certain questions that Ron would respond boldly to. I had hoped it was due to inexperience, but we all know where "hope " has brought this nation now.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:27 | 2507663 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

OK, you've talked me down off the cliff... for now, but Ron has some explaining to do!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:45 | 2507714 Goner
Goner's picture

I am a bit confused (normal) The article say that Rand endorsed Mittens, not Ron. Why would Ron have to explain vs Rand?

Or is it a simple misunderstanding that started with the commonly writin RP (for Ron Paul) so people thought this was Ron instead of Rand?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:51 | 2507734 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

Beacause I believe that RON would talk to his family before the entire world about any future plans he has. So WTF is up with RAND?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:55 | 2507746 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture


Rand can explain to the people of KY, but he isn't accountable to me.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:35 | 2508162 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Robot:  Hey Senator Paul, Robot here.  Listen, there's no way I can win without getting a good chunk of your Dad's supporters on board.  So, in the interest of party unity and paying back the interests of the libertarian independents, how would you feel about the VP nod?

Rand:  Hold on, let me call Dad first.

RP:  Oh f-ck yea Son....I thought the best we'd get would be the Sec Treasury slot!  Like they say in Prometheus, big things have small beginnings! Have them reboot the Robot and input the new programming!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:09 | 2507610 Jena
Jena's picture

I voted for him in the CA primary and I'll be writing him in the general.  I don't see much choice.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:13 | 2508065 Hohum
Hohum's picture

Dr. E,

Vote for Gary Johnson.  You don't have to bring a writing implement.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:48 | 2507527 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ah, that was Rand Paul not Ron Paul.  Still writing the latter in and will sleep well.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:55 | 2507561 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

I love RON Paul. I have his magnet on my car and sing his praises. I'm even ordering his wifes family cookbook but I'm sure his son knows what is up.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:57 | 2507566 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Ron's career is pretty much over (unless he is written in for president and TPTB don't manipulate the vote), Rand is just playing the game, for now.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:31 | 2507901 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"(unless he is written in for president and TPTB don't manipulate the vote)"

I don't know what State you're voting in, but most States only allow a write-in vote for the Primaries, not the general election.  So your vote will most likely be discarded, not counted.  I used to think the votes were manipulated before the 2010 elections and Wisconsin recall.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:15 | 2509287 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Rand's "playing the game, for now" - he's taking the other side to you, yes?

that's the game - .gov vs. the people.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:44 | 2507711 10mm
10mm's picture

Dont's let the Po Po see that magnet.They will send out a flying thingy to see whats up.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:06 | 2507780 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

They could save money and just ask me whats up. I have no problem speaking my mind :-)

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:05 | 2507599 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

Ron Paul is running interference, wake up, he's just laying ground for Rand, he never had any intention of being president. Everyone is so easily played its really sad...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:25 | 2507656 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Dr. Ron Paul is looking to recapture the Republican Party and return it to a more coherent outlook.

Dr. Rand Paul... well, he simply doesn't exist anymore. Hopefully the people of Kentucky feel the same way about this worthless scumbag posing as a mere shadow of his father.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:49 | 2507730 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Here's Mr. Worthless Scumbag's contact page, if anyone cares to let him know how you feel.

As for the idea that the Bilderbergers threatened him, well... did he really not expect that before he ran for office? Surely Boy Wonder wasn't that fucking naive.

As always, government is nothing but the most organized form of crime.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:17 | 2509294 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

'Bergers don't need to "threaten" - they merely entice. . . look at their history with "candidates" it's all in plain view.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:33 | 2507676 CheapBastard
CheapBastard's picture
Home prices drop despite rate cut

AN aggressive interest rate cut failed to halt a 1.4 per cent plunge in capital city residential values in May, according to researcher RP Data-Rismark.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:41 | 2507705 CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

Ron Paul as an independent just splits the Republican vote and gives Obama the election (just as Ralph Nader split the Democrat vote and gave George W Bush the election over Gore).

All they're deciding is who gets to preside over the collapse.

It remains to be seen if that means the other party gets to preside over the rebuilding.  We may be smart enough as a nation to through them both out and start over.   But George Soros is banking on controlling us all post-collapse.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:03 | 2507758 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

In that case if I don't get Ron Paul then I would rather Obombya stay right where he is! The collapse should be on him and the rebuilding will be on us. Soros will be dissapointed when reality hits him. The plan will not go as they plan... it never does.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:11 | 2507807 CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

Four more years of Obama's rule by Executive Order?  Even if a crash is inevitable, we can still choose between landing on a golf course or plowing straight ahead into a mountain.


I'm on record as being all for Ron Paul as president.  But the reality is I can't have him, and that doesn't make Obama a good idea.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:17 | 2507827 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

And you don't think Romney will rule by executive order?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:38 | 2507928 gnomon
gnomon's picture

There would be a WORLD of difference between Obummer ruling during Martial Law and Romney ruling during Martial Law.  Obummer is a snake with totalitarian tendencies, and the people around him are toxic trolls of the same ilk.  The little people with their firearms would be "kulaks", and we know what happened to the kulaks under a tyrant named Stalin.

And don't forget that one of Obummer's soulmates said that 30 million Americans would have to be cleansed to get this nation in the right frame of mind for what they have in mind.  

Think CAREFULLY.  CHURN IS GOOD.  Churn this Obummer (and his cohorts) out of office.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:45 | 2508213 Chaos_Theory
Chaos_Theory's picture

Two words....Eric Holder.

More than anything else in this election, him remaining as the AG is determining where my vote will go.  Whatever it takes to send him back to being a civilian racist a-hole is where I'm voting, even if it means the Robot.

Although letting the current Admin reap the whirlwind of passing the Event Horizon into the Black Hole seems like poetic justice, I'm not sure if the inevitable period of (unknown duration) full monty Big Brother without the mirage of empathy and concern for the plebes is worth the fun. 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:26 | 2507868 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

You mean 4 more years of Obama ruling by executive order just like W. did for 8 years before him? 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:36 | 2507916 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

Yes and the same executive order Hillary would be executing as well as Romney.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:16 | 2508080 gnomon
gnomon's picture

You are being disingenuous.  Hacking away at the Constitution during a period of relative stability (like Bush did) is totally different from a Martial Law environment in which there are urban riots because of economic collapse/race baiting.  There would be NO brake on Obummer and his totalitarian tendencies.  There would be a Stalinist Purge of both the Left and Right, leaving the ignorant sheep in the middle to be fleeced at gunpoint.

No one who had ever expressed a strong opinion, (one way or another), would be safe.  Remember that Stalin purged as many of his previous allies as he did of those who had opposed him from the beginning.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:50 | 2507976 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"The collapse should be on him"  What the MSM will suddenly stop covering for him?  The collapse will be blamed on everything but Obama, and the joke will be on you when Obama stays in power long enough to "rebuild" us in his image.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:46 | 2507521 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Yeah that pissed me off. Traitor.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:45 | 2508212 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Same here.  I thought that Ron probably wouldn't win, but now that he is out, I will be cementing my plans to leave this country permanently.

I am tremendously dissappointed in Rand.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:21 | 2507642 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

In a binary world, he could not endorse Obama.  Like the rest of us he will vote for what he perceives to be the lessor of evils, and like the rest of us, he will discover evil is still evil.


At some point, we will do the right thing but it will be long after all other options have passed.


I voted for John McCain the author of the National Defense Authorization Act.  Many others voted for the President that signed it into law.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:22 | 2507644 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

I think you all fail to comprehend the utter insdiiousness of all these collapse posts. None of these are written out of the goodness of anyones heart.

The fact is we are being Psychologically managed. First the 2012 bugaboo sets the scary imagery. Next all the collapse speak drives the nail home.

In simpler terms the reset is planned and all the anxiety we have built up is factored in to makes the GENPOP thankfull to OWG for saving their ass.

We are being managed straight down the road TPTB wants us on.



Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:22 | 2507850 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Rather insightful, for a change Gully. +100

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:51 | 2508433 koperniuk666
koperniuk666's picture

Gully, 'we are being managed'  -  this comment along with the many on ZH alledging that 'the Queen" or the "city of london'   are 'managing' the whole collapse  scenario makes me LMAO.

As someone who has ACTUALLY WORKED IN AND FOR THE UK GOVT . I can assure you that not a SINGLE one of them could find their own arsholes in the dark; they couldnt organise a piss up in brewery.

They are laughably untalented. Dont believe that Spooks or CSI crap. Even if  the staff were good when they arrived they will  have been ground down to zombie 'yes men' after a few years. 

They are just trudgeing along along in the hamster wheel waiting for retirement. 

Remember it is  governments INCOMPETENCE that got us into this mess.

Conspiracy - my arse. Govt is the ROOT of the problem Masquerading as the cure. Eliminate most  of the govt and the problem will be solved! 

all the c.nts in charge can offer is  - ' if you give us more power and more  tax, everything will be ok.."



Sat, 06/09/2012 - 07:36 | 2509911 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Well thanks for the reassurance. I take it that you're in a position of rather significant importance, have cross agency and cross department experience in every facet of government, and know precisely that every mook in the government is an incompetent boob and that there absolutely would be no dark ops plans hatched on the public "because you would know". 

Tell me, from your experiences behnd the scenes in the top hierarchy of MI-5, how did such incompetent boobs rise to the top of the food chain there? 

Once again thanks. Sure is nice to know that someone so connected to even the more shadowy aspects of the government is here to give us absolute assurance. 

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:41 | 2510780 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Well done!  Sarcasm of the highest order that needs no explanation as same.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:01 | 2508007 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Ron Paul cannot win the nomination.  What do you expect Rand to do?  Let's see what concessions Rand and Ron get.  If they do not get a prime time slot or two for speeches and the seating of about 500 delegates, I would say that Ron has blown it.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:46 | 2508215 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Have a backbone?

Might as well have endorsed Obama for all the differencs between those two.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:41 | 2507500 beachdude
beachdude's picture

Then let's get on with it...

Bring it.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:56 | 2507567 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Agree. Been seeing it coming since '93. Just get on with it already.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:41 | 2507502 redpill
redpill's picture

Friday comedy...


"The private sector is doing fine. Where we're seeing weaknesses in our economy have to do with state and local government."

President Obama, June 8, 2012


Ride, Choomwagon, ride!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:45 | 2507516 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Who needs money?!

President Obama, June 1, 2012

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:49 | 2509596 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

I need money to buy thingamajigs

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:11 | 2507615 potlatch
potlatch's picture

The very fact no one is discussing this as a solution -- a choom summit in the choomwagon -- makes me think, I am guessing this *is* our most potentially fruitful course of action at this juncture going forward...


Who's in!!!!??

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:54 | 2507555 hedgehog9999
hedgehog9999's picture

Really funny and the 700K jobs created: $10/hr Mcflipping and McCleaning type of jobs enhanced by the infamous Birth/Death model of creative statistics.

And what's wrong with state and municipal governments cutting back, they are overbloated anyways, the Feds should cut back as well except they own the printing press........the really sad part is the only reasons state and municipal governments are cutiing back is because their bloated and unsustainable pension plans are nearly broke......

As far as housing, incomes need to recover before a sustainable housing boom takes place. Hard to do that with Mcjobs type employment growth.....



Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:42 | 2507944 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

Can't cut back...

Union rules.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:43 | 2507947 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

Sounded like it was bullish for a Union bailout to me.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 17:23 | 2508805 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

Here are a couple of statistics from Obama's old stomping ground.   Illinois' pension plans are underfunded by about $83 billion and Chicago's an estimated $20 billion.  

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:28 | 2507625 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Where can we get some of the shit Barry's smokin'? Just kidding. He's clearly on the powder now.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:46 | 2507958 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

The sooner he progresses to MJ's drip line the better.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:07 | 2509126 penexpers
penexpers's picture

[slams fist down on desk]

This guy is a fucking moron!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:43 | 2507509 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The solution is to buy silver.  The silver market is extremely small, due to industrial use, and once P* gets pushed higher, JPM defaults on its naked short pos.  And those who do buy the bullion end up with real money.

Just a thought......

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:46 | 2507520 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

yes, litigation and confiscation remain the only wild cards.  that's where your like-minded and heavily armed neighbors come into play.

either way, paper will decouple from reality, just so robo can still post that "silver is getting crushed" when in reality you won't be able to get any for delivery with any paper.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:14 | 2507627 potlatch
potlatch's picture

I am a zen hermit, so I hold no metals.


I was not aware: are metal assets usually *not* available on demand?  Are they usually on paper or in paper? 



If I were to ever procure any metal, this boggles me.  What fool would do that?  Find an institution of storage you trust, and store the metal yourself.  Or is that naive of me?

Just a question: not an investor, just an observer and learner.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:45 | 2507716 Matt
Matt's picture

From what I can tell of the futures market, for every ounce of silver or gold that someone actually takes delivery of, there are 99 to 199 ounces of paper that are purely speculative, and settled in cash.

The big ETFs, GLD and SLV, are non-auditable and non-redeemable, so they may or may not have any, but either way, you are not getting it.

PHYS is audited and redeemable if you have a large enough stake to redeem, as I understand it.

If you buy gold and hold it, you have it.

I personally have not looked into storing gold in a vault, so I can't say anything about how easy it is to get your gold on demand.

Mostly, what people are talking about is not how things are now, but what will happen when there is an actual shortage of silver, now projected for sometime late 2015 I believe.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:06 | 2508505 potlatch
potlatch's picture

thnx dudes who gave me the info.  I am not an investor, and I did not realize the PHYS was that low, if that is the term: I am a college professor; we are all innumerate.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:13 | 2507799 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

get some PHYZ in your HANDS what is wrong with you!!!!!  from  a fellow zen hermit 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:53 | 2507552 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture


did you capture that eclpse photo yourself?

Looks more like a total than an annular eclipse though.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:55 | 2507562 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I downloaded it off the interwebs.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:06 | 2508510 potlatch
potlatch's picture

teh intranets create opportunity which is the American Dream

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:59 | 2507570 Vint Slugs
Vint Slugs's picture

Yes, the silver market is extremely small.  No, the solution is to not buy it - silver isn't money and hasn't been since the 1870s - but to buy gold.  I've said it here before and will again: the big commercial short in the silver market is China (they hold hundreds of millions maybe more than a billion of ounces of silver).  JPM's not naked short; they just inherited the Chinese client when they took over the Bear Stearns book.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:11 | 2507616 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Huh?  wtf were Quarters made out of?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:48 | 2507726 Vint Slugs
Vint Slugs's picture

You don’t get it.  Broaden your understanding.  Here’s a reading list:  Menger, Mises, Rothbard, Reisman, Fekete.  Their writings are all freely available on the internet.  Pick one. 

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:47 | 2510791 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You didn't answer the question.  What were pre-1965 coins made of?   And for extra credit:  Why are they not made of the same substance today?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:25 | 2507659 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I agree. silver stocks are becoming smaller and smaller in comparison to the industrial consumption to allow monetization. In this silver has nowadays the same problem as platinum and palladium.

Monetization is a process, and gold is not yet there.

If gold monetizes again - relax guys, I'm stacking, it is money, but it's not accepted everywhere and by everyone without comment - then silver could have a very, very small chance, later.

This does not mean that speculation is stupid, in the contrary, by not monetizing, it could have the hardest swings up and down.

A metal has to give price stability in order to become a monetary metal. Money is nearly always the one item that changes value in the least violent way. A safe haven of price stability. A reason why gold is being swung up and down, by the way...

Shake it and it does not become money...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:34 | 2507908 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Good points-- the noble metals wear many hats.  Can be used in electronic components, as catalysts in chemistry, as ornamental objects, as forks and knives, AND as stores of value due to their rarity, durability, and.... "universal" acceptance as same among human societies.  That's where things get sticky, for now.  Try paying for a hotel room or new car with gold or silver coins.  Technically, if they're U.S. Mint, they must be accepted, but if they aren't, well.... we are at the stage where gold, silver, etc. are still ghosts pointing to the Emperor, and saying, "where's the beef?".  That is why gold and silver markets are muffled and manipulated, we're at a stage where the money thermometers should read 110 degrees, but someone has used a Sharpie to draw "60" over 110.  That's good enough for most, for now, unfortunately, but you can't repeal the laws of mathematics quite that easily forever.  It's simple-- if fiat currency is used as a store of value, and its supply is expanding at a torrid pace, how can its "value" hold?  Supply and demand, that's what it comes down to.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:51 | 2510797 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

My "quarter" is accepted at the local farmers market for as many ears of corn as I can stuff into one of those cloth shopping bags.   Who says it ain't money?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:38 | 2507689 SilverSavant
SilverSavant's picture

Dear Slugo,

I know you really like the sound of your own voice, just as most of us do.   However, your claim that silver isn't money and that China is the big short seem to be a combination of prejudgious, in the first case and unsubstantiated rumor, in the second.   Do you have any facts to back up your claim about Bear Stearns Book?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:44 | 2507511 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Tell us something we didn't know.  hedge accordingly.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:44 | 2507515 hugovanderbubble
hugovanderbubble's picture

+1 CHS

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:56 | 2507564 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

This guy *consistently* has the most worthless, time wasting articles on ZH.

As long as it generates click revenue, it's not going to stop.

The next of his articles that appears, I start visiting every other day instead of every day. 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:00 | 2507577 Creepy Lurker
Creepy Lurker's picture

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:05 | 2507598 Lucky Guesst
Lucky Guesst's picture

OMG Thanks for that laugh :-D

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:45 | 2507517 Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

Governments around the world are trying to spread out the pain instead of letting it all happen at once so that the people in power can remain in power. 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:36 | 2507684 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

This in fact is the only game that remains.

The effort even if successful will mind-fuck a generation. I don't think they care. For this alone TPTB should be shot.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:02 | 2508487 Chump
Chump's picture

Where's the rest of that story about the dude who almost got eaten?  I'm glad I kept reading because at first I thought it might be furry erotica...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:45 | 2507518 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Guns - check

Gold - check

God - check


Bring it on.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:51 | 2507539 jcia
jcia's picture


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:15 | 2507622 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

And maybe Gold and God are mutually exclusive. Somewhere, maybe in Revelation, I remember a passage about people throwing their gold into the streets.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:59 | 2508002 New England Patriot
New England Patriot's picture

Perhaps you are remembering that in the new Jerusalem, the street is made of pure gold; Revelation 21:21. 


Gold and God are not mutually exclusive. God made gold. God also made man with an intrinsic sense of value for gold. Moreover, if you look at references to wealth throughout the Bible, gold is usually listed. What's more, the word for 'money' in both Hebrew and Greek, the two languages of the Old and New Testaments respectively, is the word for silver.


God gave us precious metals. 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:30 | 2508371 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be as an unclean thing; their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them ...

Ezekial 7:19

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:56 | 2508251 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

translation error.  I think they meant Molotovs.   People were tossing their molotovs out into the streets.  Which explains why we have so many pottery shards instead of whole pots when they dig.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:56 | 2507563 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Listen to me. You have to consider the possibility that God does not like you. He never wanted you. In all probability, he hates you. This is not the worst thing that can happen.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:12 | 2507621 samsara
samsara's picture

That's your God,  Not his.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:14 | 2507628 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

Maybe we get the God that we wish on others.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:57 | 2507751 viahj
viahj's picture

maybe you both need to watch the movie that the persona of this website is based upon

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:27 | 2507662 Half_A_Billion_...
Half_A_Billion_Hollow_Points's picture

"Think of everything we've accomplished, man. Out these windows, we will view the collapse of financial history. One step closer to economic equilibrium."

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:05 | 2507772 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

Imagine that, a Deity with anthropomorphic penchants. 

The highest expression of animisim, I guess.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:47 | 2508221 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I guess you never saw Fight Club.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:49 | 2508430 SubjectivObject
SubjectivObject's picture

That's true; didn't recognize the dialog.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 15:17 | 2508304 pods
pods's picture

 Now a question of etiquette; as I pass, do I give you the ass or the crotch...?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:54 | 2509603 jumbo maverick
jumbo maverick's picture

Brought to you by planned parenthood.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 12:28 | 2507667 Badabing
Badabing's picture

@ Stackers

Guns - check

Gold - check

God - check


  low key low tech is the best way to bug out whether it be a mountain hideaway, motor home or boat. Cabins in the woods are fine as long as no one knows where it is and has enough land to support your family, motor homes are another alternative but fuel and blocked roads may be a problem in a SHTF scenario. If you know how to sail and don’t get seasick a sailboat will be a good bug out alternative. For about the price of one oz of Au a good sailboat can be got.

Something like this small enough to single hand sail, and slip under the radar while being big enough to live aboard.

  People have been getting around sailing for as long as gold has been money, say somewhere around 5000 years. As for navigating a GPS works fine but when the systems fail we may not have the support equipment to operate a GPS. Line of site vectoring is a good low tech way to navigate as long as you don’t lose sight of land. A compass has worked for hundreds of years also and you don’t need to see land but drifting can be an issue. The most accurate way to low tech navigate is with a sextant. Some can be intimidated with understanding the use but once it’s explained it is quite simple. With a sextant a good time piece is also needed, each time zone is divided into 60 minuets and each minuet is divided into 60 seconds and at the equator a time zone is 1000 miles so a second is .2777777777 miles or a little over a quarter mile. Not as accurate as a GPS but it will get you within sight of your target. Food on a boat can be caught and water can be made using a small manual desalinater or a solar still.   



Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:21 | 2507844 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

That is so funny. I was looking at exactly the same listings this week. The sea escape looks pretty good to me.
Is a site about the travels of a guy basically on the same page. Circumnavigating the globe with no electrical system on board.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 14:05 | 2508025 Badabing
Badabing's picture


thanks for that i love this stuff!

have you checked the salty dog lots of cool storys in the log about repates

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:24 | 2507856 whaleoil
whaleoil's picture

One word, dude: pirates

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:35 | 2508057 Badabing
Badabing's picture

land or water pirates?

stackers did say "guns" check

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:11 | 2507803 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

as someone much older and wiser than me once said: two outta 3 ain't bad 

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 11:53 | 2512116 e-recep
e-recep's picture

i don't get the god part. can't you live without believing in a deity?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 20:32 | 2535148 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Yes, but you'll have less to feel bad about.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:49 | 2507529 Dane Bramage
Dane Bramage's picture

Crises-driven society.  Even if there were a solution, not enough would care.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 11:50 | 2507530 walcott
walcott's picture

How about renaissance?

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