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Guest Post: Spontaneous Order And The Jersey Shore

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by James E. Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada,

It’s tough to do just about anything today without experiencing the far-reaching hand of the growing regulatory state.  Virtually everything the average shopper see on the store shelf is stamped with government approval.  With the increasing use of red light safety cameras and even domestic surveillance drones, the dystopian world which George Orwell painted so brilliantly in 1984 is sounding more prophetic by the day.  The result is a new generation that is coming of age amongst a pervasive and all-inclusive nanny state.  With a federal register that grows by tens of thousands of pages each year, tyranny is spewing forth across America from Leviathan’s home of Washington D.C. every single day.

While the seeds of big, progressive government were planted decades before in the midst of the first World War and war between the states, it wasn’t until the New Deal did the United States finally succumb to a full blown welfare state.  Family support and voluntary mutual-aid societies were replaced in a matter of years by a coercive bureaucracy.  Perhaps the most unfortunate element of the rise of the welfare state is that the line between society and the state has blurred even further.  The growth of democracy is often accompanied by the public identifying itself with the state.  In the people’s minds, it then becomes impossible to imagine how society would function without the political class in direct control.  The state is gradually turned to for all of life’s dilemmas without proper consideration given to how peaceful solutions could be utilized.  Masked in its role as savior, the state is given an opening to extend its true role as the great societal exploiter.

This occurs even as there are many ways society can cope with perceived complications when left to its own devices.  It is a great myth that humanity can’t organize itself without the assistance of government.  There is, in fact, a natural order that develops within even the most unnoticeable of tasks.  The most immediate example is the queue line at any grocery store.  At least in America, it is generally accepted practice that one must wait their turn while wishing to be checked out.  “Cutting” in line is seen as a social stigma.  Yet nowhere is this written down as a formal rule.  Private grocers may enforce such a rule but often times there is no need to.  Decades of tradition have done the job for them.

The line at the grocery store is just one example of how order is established through unplanned methods; or what economist Friedrich Hayek referred to as spontaneous or “extended order.”  In his book The Fatal Conceit, Hayek described extended order as

a framework of institutions – economic, legal, and moral – into which we fit ourselves by obeying certain rules of conduct that we never made, and which we have never understood in the sense of which we understand how the things that we manufacture function.

To Hayek, civilization is the result of an “order” that was “not from human design or intention but spontaneously: it arose from unintentionally conforming to certain traditional and largely moral practices.”  The cooperation and division of labor which allow a market economy to flourish were the result of spontaneous order.  And because enterprise is the best means by which people can achieve their objectives, it can be deduced that the decentralized control of productive factors, otherwise known as laissez faire capitalism, is mankind’s saving grace from a life of incredible hardship.

The beauty of spontaneous order is that it is all around us whether we realize it or not.  Its biggest enemy is the encroaching omnipotence every government represents.  Politicians are infatuated with the idea of controlling others or they wouldn’t be politicians in the first place.  The idea that societal order can arise without their permission is a terrifying prospect.  To public officials, spontaneous order means “we don’t need you and your guns to tell us how to live.”  Politicians end up combating the notion by overly emphasizing any reported tragedy as a justification for more laws and governance.

Recently in the state of New Jersey, there has been a rash of drownings on the state’s shoreline.  So far this summer, there have been a total of five deaths related to drowning.  These drownings all have one thing in common: there were no lifeguards on duty at the time.  In response, one of the supervisors of state’s beaches is asking for the legislature to “pass a law imposing stiff fines for anyone caught swimming after lifeguards have gone home.”  Some lawmakers are considering proposals to alter the current laws so that towns are less liable for any drownings.  There is even some talk of extending life guard coverage.

What doesn’t get mentioned in any news coverage is that all of the recent Jersey Shore drownings have something else in common: they occurred on public, or socialized, beaches.  These beaches are governed primarily by local municipalities that leave them free to the public in the evening.  Many people visit public beaches during this time because, according to the Asbury Park beach safety official Joe Bongiovanni, “it’s free.”  Combined with government authority and the ability of victims and their families to sue the town for drowning accidents, beach-goers are given a false sense of security that someone will pay for the costs of their own mistakes.  In other words, they make choices they may not have made otherwise.  As Paul Mulshine of The Star Ledger points out, “people who take such risks feel it’s someone else’s responsibility to save them from themselves.”  Rather than stop bad behavior, increasing the amount of lifeguards on duty will just incentivize risk taking.

The real solution is to privatize the beaches by having the various local municipalities relinquish their control.  Allow the market to function and for the beaches to fall into private hands not through crony public-private partnerships but allowing individuals to procure the land through methods such as homesteading or establishing a type of joint-stock company.  The difference between the open market and government is that bureaucracies are always using a top-down approach to develop the perfect solution to even the most negligible of problems.  On the other hand, the market finds solutions in so many different ways that it is difficult to imagine just how it would operate when left uninhibited.

In his classic “Fable of Shoes,” Murray Rothbard demonstrates just how ridiculous it is for enemies of the marketplace to vilify supporters of enterprise by asking “how can business provide for so and so if government doesn’t do it?”

The libertarian who wants to replace government by private enterprises in the above areas is thus treated in the same way as he would be if the government had, for various reasons, been supplying shoes as a tax-financed monopoly from time immemorial.. [H]ow would most of the public treat the libertarian who now came along to advocate that the government get out of the shoe business and throw it open to private enterprise? He would undoubtedly be treated as follows: people would cry, “How could you? You are opposed to the public, and to poor people, wearing shoes! And who would supply shoes to the public if the government got out of the business? Tell us that! Be constructive! It’s easy to be negative and smart-alecky about government; but tell us who would supply shoes? Which people? How many shoe stores would be available in each city and town? How would the shoe firms be capitalized? How many brands would there be? What material would they use? What lasts? What would be the pricing arrangements for shoes? Wouldn’t regulation of the shoe industry be needed to see to it that the product is sound? And who would supply the poor with shoes? Suppose a poor person didn’t have the money to buy a pair?”

Judging by how abundant shoes have become, it should be obvious that the market, that is millions of people economizing and trading voluntarily, has done a decent job of turning footwear into a relatively inexpensive good.

In a free society, it would be unjust to force some into paying for the constant supervision of those less cautious of life’s risks.  Just as a child learns to avoid a hot stove by painfully touching it, we all learn through misfortune.  The Jersey Shore drownings, tragic as they are, should serve as a lesson all beach visitors.  Common sense isn’t something to be legislated.  It can only form when the right incentives are involved for people to make smart decisions without relying on a central source of authority.  And just like the free market, common sense is also a product of spontaneous order.


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Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:38 | 2637822 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

There is a population bubble going on that needs to correct itself. If you go swimming at night in the ocean and you disappear in a rip tide then you were the part of natural selection that was very much selected for extinction. If anything they should encourage this activity.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:27 | 2637906 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Absolutely brilliant insight !

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:34 | 2638252 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

It's easy to give up responsibility, especially in this day and age when everything you consume seemingly just is, nicely pre-packaged and ready for consumption, and all the services that make one's life easy are taken for granted. What is difficult is realizing that whatever you have, whatever you can get, can go away in just a week's time if the machine grinds to a halt, if the power grid goes down, if the very state of life that we are in is merely a step or two above what people lived like a hundred years ago... a thousand years ago.

People don't train themselves to face hardship because everything comes so easy now. This builds complacency, apathy, arrogance, a need for some higher authority to support the continuity of your existence.

As the saying goes, "nothing builds character like good ol' hardship." You have to learn to live and not simply exist to see that there are greater things than being handed the illusion of false security.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:09 | 2638068 knukles
knukles's picture


The population bubble means a whole boat load more people... as in downright crowded.
So all the more people to do dumb ass things and drown/get washed away bt a tsunami/Humongoloid car accidents heretofore impossible in say the 30's when there were no 346 lane highways... etc.

And then it's all covered 24/7/365/subatomic by media... so we're simply gonna know more, more often and more often than not...
Like a Jersey Shore Drowning, who gives a fuck anyway?

Then add onto it, the normal human tendency to which our egos push, toward greater control, power, property, money and prestige and there's a perfect platform for a bunch of retards to add in additional legislation....

Further enthralled by a bunch of people who love to talk about fixing social shit and doing nothing their little selves (a process referred to as hypocrisy) but turning "it" over to TPTB... which reinforces the total cycle of anal societal decay.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:06 | 2638286 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Blaise Pascal - Online Library of Liberty - Week of 5 June, 2012 -

Ut olim vitiis, sic nunc legibus laboramus (“Once we suffered from our vices; today we suffer from our laws”)

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:45 | 2638683 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Everything is so sleepy here in the mountains a streaker gets front page news. It is amazing the carnage and stupidity that goes on down there in the flatlands. You can have it.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:22 | 2638243 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Those drownings are Mother Nature's way of saying your genes aren't needed.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 00:28 | 2638362 natty light
natty light's picture

I don't think risk-takers who make a bad decision are necessarily due for culling from the population. Lots of inferior genetic specimens eg retarded people are protected and are not removed.

Blowback away but it is the truth.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 17:05 | 2639241 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

That's not particularly natural selection, like swimming at the exact spot a hungry shark is swimming. It's more in the realm of bad luck.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:44 | 2637827 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Warning: be alive at your own risk.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:45 | 2637830 Thisson
Thisson's picture

The argument presented here in a real reach.  People don't risk drowning because they think that they can sue the municipality if/when things go wrong.  There are plenty of drownings on private property as well.  I think there's something else going on here, which is that ignorance in society is rising to a fatal level.  People are being raised in a such a manner so that they can no longer take care of themselves.  How hard is it to avoid drowning?  How hard is it to know, before hand, what to do if caught in a riptide or undertoe?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:47 | 2637833 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

How hard is it to not go in the fkin water at night when there is no one to save your ass? Or,if you do go in and get dragged out in a rip, have your last thought on this earth be "well I bought my ticket".

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:49 | 2637938 Matt
Matt's picture

A more important question:

statistically, is the rate of drownings going up dramatically, or are they in line with historical norms?

If the latter, it is simply a matter of too much media attention suddenly applied to an existing problem.

I would be in favor of removing liability for people drowning in the ocean. I mean, really, how far out can you sue the city? What is the imaginary line drawn where it is determined that you are far enough away that you are responsible for yourself?

Without changing these rules, with the proposed solution of privatizing all the beaches, it seems that people who fall off a boat and drown within the waters designated private property could still have their surviving family members sue the private land owner for failing to save their lives.


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:24 | 2637988 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

This happens more or less, every couple of yrs here,  after the LG's leave its a free for all , always has been, it is clearly posted "no swimming/swim at your own risk" this = no liability, in fact in my 30yrs actually going to the bch here, I've never heard of any of these towns getting sued because of  a drowning. 

 "Beach-goers are given a false sense of security that someone will pay for the costs of their own mistakes"  this should read "its hot and a nice swim in the ocean would be nice...BUT that ocean does look a little rough and probably should be careful..

But in the land of dumbfounded dipshits its clearly somebody elses fault, cause the coffee cup didn't say the coffee is hot...

The more productive solution would be to post a "what to do when caught in a rip current" which by the way NJ is notorious for.

Educate don't legislate


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:41 | 2638008 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Re. "educate don't legislate": San Francisco has one of the most wealthy and well-educated populations extant.  The homosexual community receives more education and taxpayer funded services than anywhere on earth, dare I say even more than NYC.  

Last I checked (I moved from CA in the middle part of the last decade) the SF homosexual population spreads HIV like it's  going out of style.  There's a certain strange, suicidal part of the community that actively desires to acquire HIV if they don't already have it.

Go figure.   

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:03 | 2638053 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

For most, common sense, better judgement, and education are tossed aside when genitalia's start rubbing

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:10 | 2638158 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Sure, but it's not really a homosexual phenomenon.  Once you get people addled with sex and/or drugs, they just don't tend to be all that rational. 

Check out how many jealous straights have killed a lover over an affair, or some random victim while they were lit up like a Christmas tree. 

SF's a pretty good spot for gay sex parties and lots of drugs, that's for sure.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:26 | 2638182 VallejoVillain
VallejoVillain's picture

The billboards for them queers are disgusting. The sight of two men holding each just doesn't sit well.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:50 | 2638212 Jena
Jena's picture

The population most affected by HIV in the U.S. today isn't white and homosexual, it is black and heterosexual.  The Washington D.C. area HIV rate of 3.2%, which is higher than Gambia, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Senegal, and just behind Nigeria.   The national rate is around 0.3%.  

Read more here:


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:56 | 2638221 Jena
Jena's picture

But if you think that has nothing to do with you & you live on the East Coast:

1) Don't plan on ever needing blood (you can't always bank your own or rely on friends & family);

2) Don't plan on ever needing a blood product (you don't where it's come from and it isn't synthetically made yet);

3) Be wary of organ and tissue donations;

Not all surprises are HIV.  Lots of other viruses/pathogens come along with the overal package.

4) Overall public health may take a hit with a 3.2% HIV rate.


Sat, 07/21/2012 - 09:06 | 2638599 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

my body will only accept cow's blood .........

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:30 | 2638310 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

"The population most affected by HIV in the U.S. today isn't white and homosexual, it is black and heterosexual."

Sadly, there is a reason for this phenomenon, courtesy of psychotic eugenic obsessed criminal elites:

Following the storyline of “HIV came out of Africa” researchers at the Wilford Hall United States Air Force Medical Center and San Antonio Military Medical Center, have concluded that people of African descent are more likely to have a genetic trait that makes them “more susceptible” to contracting the HIV virus.

Matthew Dolan, co-author of the study suggests:

The benefit that the Africans got from a mutation that gave them some resistance to malaria has, statistically at least, rendered them some increased susceptibility to HIV.

The question researchers asked was: how do some people exposed to HIV contract the virus while others do not?

The study analyzed more than 1,200 US military service men and women infected with HIV to answer questions about the genetic aspects of the disease.

In 60% of African-Americans and 90% of Africans, a genetic trait was identified that made HIV 40% more prevalent than in Caucasians.

These researchers did not consult Wangari Maathai, a Kenyan ecologist and Nobel Peace Prize winner, who says that HIV was created deliberately in a laboratory as a biological weapon.

Maathai stated at a press conference after receipt of the Nobel Peace Prize that:

Some say that AIDS came from the monkeys, and I doubt that because we have been living with monkeys (since) time immemorial, others say it was a curse from God, but I say it cannot be that.

Maathai maintains that HIV was created by,

agents to wipe out other people . . . In fact [the HIV virus] was created by a scientist for biological warfare. Why has there been so much secrecy about AIDS? When you ask where did the virus come from, it raises a lot of flags. That makes me suspicious.

She asserts that HIV was created for the purposes of population control in Africa.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:16 | 2638891 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Homosexuals hate themselves. It's not that complicated.

So do people who inject drugs.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:56 | 2637848 respect the cock
respect the cock's picture

Miller is a clown...I tend to lean libertarian on a lot of issues but some of his "ideas" are absolutely ludicrous.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:09 | 2637871 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

They've always been raised like that, but we're interfering with the natural selection process. People are being protected so much they are not being eliminated from the gene pool. In fact, we are paying them to breed and paying them to not think for themselves. If you want something unsustainable, there's your prize.  If you can't afford one child, why would you have 15?  And why should anyone else have to pay for it?

The other thing I noted is he wrote people standing in line which I don't agree with.

The line at the grocery store is just one example of how order is established through unplanned methods; or what economist Friedrich Hayek referred to as spontaneous or “extended order.” In his book The Fatal Conceit, Hayek described extended order as a framework of institutions – economic, legal, and moral – into which we fit ourselves by obeying certain rules of conduct that we never made, and which we have never understood in the sense of which we understand how the things that we manufacture function.

I'm sorry, was he absent from school the day the kid breaking in line got his ass beat? 

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:10 | 2637874 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yep.  The article cited also includes "tort reform" lol...  as if the shit hasn't been around for...  decades if not centuries (even tort law under the common law was always "reforming").

The other issue here is sovereign immunity and qualified immunity...  so the state of new jersey allows itself to be sued for any and all reasons?  My local municipality is sovereign and immune...  regardless of how negligent.  Had a case where cop t-bones driver X causing life threating and permanent injuries/disfigurement due to the negligence of cop.  Is city liable?  Yes...  to what extent?  To the extent the city has liability insurance coverage...  How much coverage does the city have?  $10k lol.  Why does the city not pay for more insurance coverage?  Because it doesn't have to, it's fucking immune from suit.

So I'm having a hard time understanding why any municipality is shaking in its boots about a negligence lawsuit...  no one gives a shit about turnip lifeguards...  and the city is the only deep pocket...  and if the city is immune from suit...

Am I missing something here?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:29 | 2637995 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Nope, absolutely no litigation pending...

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:49 | 2638655 Bob
Bob's picture

Apparently you're missing all his earlier work, which focuses on similarly gripping fantasies that relate primarily to his own neoliberal utopian dreamworld and how much better and gooder it is than this one. 

You're right, no connection. 

It's another autistic masturbatory exercise in neoliberal ideology, defined in Wiki as "based on the advocacy of economic liberalizationsfree trade, and open markets. Neoliberalism supports privatization of state-owned enterprisesderegulation of markets, and promotion of the private sector's role in society."

He's just a tool.  But his constituents love the fucking beach:

Make better sense now?  All your beaches are belong to us, suckers.


Sat, 07/21/2012 - 00:20 | 2638357 sgorem
sgorem's picture

what the article omits is that more than half of the Jersey Shore drowning victims had cinder blocks tied to their legs, hmmm, in Jowsey?:) now that's Darwinism at it's finest.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 17:14 | 2639263 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I agree the example and interpretation is bad but the point is valid. We put money in FDIC insured banks because government guarantees it. We do not evaluate which banks are better and we cannot tell them apart. Even when the morons like BofA and Citi go under the government bails them out. So all the stupid decision makers, ineffective corporate management processes, etc are preserved. What should have been economic natural selection is aborted.

I read an article in a car magazine this week about the future and self driven automated cars. One of the points was that when necessary it could be turned off and driven manually as now. My thought was how skilled will anyone be at driving if they have rarely ever done it? As a libertarian I also considered the endless government control scenarios, as well.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:50 | 2637838 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

How about the growing THIEVING regulatory state? Nevada takes 75% of hardest hit fund and uses it for "admininstrative expenses." No help to consumers, lots for bureaucrats.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:55 | 2637842 The Count
The Count's picture

Something more for the common sense department. As tragic as any shooting (or other method) is when innocent people are killed by a lunatic is...

Mayor Bloomberg, a true moron, immediately calls for tighter gun control. The anti gun lobby has a problem with logical thinking. There is something called cause, and something called effect. I would like to tell him that Switzerland has the most liberal guns laws in Europe. And I think everybody would agree that Switzerland is considered a safe and civilized country.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:55 | 2637846 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Not all lunatics are violent. Just sayin'.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:55 | 2637847 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Allow me to add how about you don't bring your 3 month old child or your 3 year old child to the midnight showing of Batman on opening night. How about you stay the fuck home and at least try to act like a parent.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:59 | 2637857 The Count
The Count's picture

You took the words out of my mouth... But of course your form of plain common sense is not acceptable to the mind police.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:11 | 2637878 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The compassion here is overwhelming

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:20 | 2637887 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Hey Machoman I read your posts and I really respect what you have to say. What I think you may miss here is that my heart actually aches for these poor kids that get exposed to situations that they should never have been put in. I have become a total sap as I have gotten older and make it a point to try to defend people, especially kids, that can't defend themselves. Compassion for the stupid parents? None.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:19 | 2637970 smiler03
smiler03's picture

So Americans are praying for families afflicted by a lunatic.

12 dead and 59 wounded

Red light "accidents" in 2008

7,770 dead and 733,000 wounded

Which is a bigger threat to American lives?

Red light cameras, shameful, robbing you of your rights to run a red light.

No wonder you have so many people on disability, never mind, you can always pray for them.



Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:42 | 2638258 freedogger
freedogger's picture

The solution to red lights accidents is to increase the amber duration by a second. Often the contracts between cities and the camera company prohibit decreasing the amber duration. So no, it is not about saving lives, it is just another tax.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 01:45 | 2638413 Isotope
Isotope's picture

The solution to red light cameras is to get a 1-2 watt handheld laser and use it to examine the lens of the camera at night.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 09:58 | 2638635 Sofa King Confused
Sofa King Confused's picture

A 22 works quite well also.....not that I have done that before.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 00:59 | 2638386 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

How many people are getting killed in the middle east due to our aggression and imperialism?


Sat, 07/21/2012 - 00:59 | 2638387 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

How many people are getting killed in the middle east due to our aggression and imperialism?


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:36 | 2637919 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

"Switzerland has the most liberal guns laws in Europe." Liberal gun laws to the average  American means a ban on guns.  Sucks how the progressives hijackd so many words to confuse.  Unfortunately Bloomberg is considered a liberal to many although he's anything but.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:45 | 2637932 tankster
tankster's picture

Yes, but its not because they have liberal gun laws!

Why do all you dick-wagging gun worshippers think your gonna be on the winning end of an exchange of fire. The odds are you will Not be. This country proves again and again they're not emotionally intelligent enough to carry guns.

And as for protecting your 'physical' at the end-of-days? It better be buried somewhere cause you can bet that someones coming along with a bigger stick than you.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:52 | 2637943 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

I would rather be on the losing end of an exchange of fire with an opportunity to defend myself and my family than go down begging on my knees totally helpless against a person who most likely acquired a firearm illegally.

Most people are not emotionally intelligent enough to carry guns, and the real nut jobs certainly did not get it by applying for a permit.


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:19 | 2637976 tankster
tankster's picture

Good points.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:22 | 2637984 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Hey tankster, good shit man. I appreciate that response. Not because I feel validated. But because It's awsome to see open minded people out there.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 07:20 | 2638561 petolo
petolo's picture

Most people lack the selfless gene to do anything but save their own arse. Why did no one grab this psychopath below the knees in the dark. It seems no one ever has the instinctive courage to take thelaw into their own hands. Even a mouse will fight to the death to save its offspring. No thinking involved.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:24 | 2638656 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Do WHAT?!  A MOUSE?!  "the selfless gene"?

My God, what University of Alice In Wonderland do you people come from?

It's call CHARACTER people and genes don't have shit to do with it.  It is something that is taught, learned, instilled.  Obviously you missed out on any of that.  Your parents might have been willing to die to save you but they did you a disservice in raising you a dumbass.

Mice eat their young as well.  Is that too a noble attribute of your family?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:48 | 2638129 graneros
graneros's picture

Hey the Aurora police were on scene in 1 and a half minutes after the first call.  Pretty damn good respone time.  Problem is 71 people were shot anyway.  If one of those people in the theatre would have had a gun this could have turned out differently.

This country also proves how many dick-wagging keyboard operators such as yourself are not intelligent enough to come up with a logical thought.  It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand that anyone can find themselves staring down the barrel of a criminal's gun.  I'd rather go down fighting by exchanging fire and hopefully taking him out than just lying there in a pool of blood.

In my part of the world (Rural Rocky Mountains of Colorado) every house has plenty of firepower.  The criminals know it.  While break ins and robberies are most likely common where you and your gun free pals have nothing BUT your dicks to wag at an intruder,  I can't remember the last serious crime we've had here.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:56 | 2638274 Vooter
Vooter's picture

"In my part of the world (Rural Rocky Mountains of Colorado) every house has plenty of firepower.  The criminals know it.  While break ins and robberies are most likely common where you and your gun free pals have nothing BUT your dicks to wag at an intruder,  I can't remember the last serious crime we've had here."

So let me get this straight--you think that the crime rate in rural Colorado is low because everyone is armed, not because there just aren't a lot of people there? I guarantee you that if you check the crime rate in rural areas of countries in which the population is not heavily armed (i.e., most countries), you'll find that it's not much different from the crime rate in rural Colorado. I mean, do you really think that there are gangs of bloodthirsty criminals roving around rural America who are simply being held at bay by armed property owners? Personally, I think the reality is that in rural America, you have a lot of heavily armed homeowners warily protecting themselves from...crickets.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:19 | 2638650 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Another liberal dumbass opens there mouth and confirms........THEY ARE STUPID.

I live in a town of less than 10k.  You let the criminal factor here find out that you are unarmed and trusting in the police to save you, and they will have you for lunch one day.  We don't have a lot of people like you around here.  Their survival rate is real low.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 02:16 | 2639868 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Oh bullshit, what town is this and what is the murder rate? It would have to be 4,000 over 10 years to kill most of the liberals. There is no such town in the US

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:45 | 2638938 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I don't think you understand what the word "rate" means in this context.

That is a polite way of saying, stop being a moron before you open your mouth.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 02:18 | 2639869 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

And after a couple decades, finally using the gun to blow their own head off due to boredom.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 02:57 | 2638458 capitallosses
capitallosses's picture

Here's my kind of "gun control"

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 02:15 | 2639867 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Not many gangbangers in rural Colorodo. Plus it's poor with difficult roads so why drive all that way to rob someone.

I've lived in Quaker communities where almost no one had a gun. No crime there either. Criminals did not drive from the cities 20 miles away to rob people. They robbed people on the next block even though they knew they had guns just like them.

Hell, I've lived a few miles from horrible slums in a couple directions for 20 years and not much crime here either other than car thieves and if you shoot them you will be the one in trouble.


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:18 | 2638240 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

I think a certain part of the population should stick 'Gun Free Residence' signs in their front yards.


The police will protect them.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 02:21 | 2639872 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

What percentage of the population has something worth stealing in their house? What do you expect to get - a couple hundred dollars, a tv, a computer and an iphone? Worth maybe $500?  You can make more than that in a couple hours dealing or hooking. If you're smart you can make 100 times more in financial finagling in a few days.

There are not millions of desperate criminals looking to interrupt your hee-haw rerun viewing. No one gives a fuck about your house or the crap in it. Not even criminals unless you have > $10K of coke or something.



Tue, 07/31/2012 - 18:54 | 2666718 Central Bankster
Central Bankster's picture



Then tell me why the fuck my car gets broken into on a street in the city and the only thing they take is my loose change and leave a $100 pair of sunglasses and a CD case?  Cause they are fucking brilliant and their crimes make logical sense?  No, they are sociopaths and they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves and they are simply looking for quick cash.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:14 | 2638647 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

How big of a candy-ass loser can you be?  "The odds are you will not be."  Who gives a shit about odds, stupid?  Its about having the OPTION  and dignity to defend oneself like a HUMAN BEING rather than the privilege of being shot down like a stray dog in the some DICK wagging a gun.

If I had of been in Colorado at that theater, I may have died, but you can be sure of two things: he better have shot me early in the game, and the SOB better be able to dodge bullets because some would have come back at him.

You liberal dumbasses are just that, DUMB!  You haven't thought past what some other dummy has said somewhere on CNN.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 02:22 | 2639873 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

Since it was dark and he used smoke or gas, you almost certainly would have been hitting other people, not the shooter.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 17:56 | 2637849 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

"The real solution is to privatize the beaches"


Are you stupid? The solution is tort reform and let people who bathe witout knowing to swim drown without any possibilty to sue, simple and plain. In my country there aren´t any beach guards what so ever, you can´t sue Mickey Dees for half a million dollars because their coffee was too hot and we´re doing just fine. 


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:24 | 2637903 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The solution isn't tort reform...  the solution is alreay present...  or, to put it a different way, there isn't even a problem.  Nothing sovereign immunity can't fix.

Tort reform in the US, at least in our modern iteration, started in the 70s...  tort reform at this point is merely an excuse to not be liable for one's actions.  It's a scapegoat perpetrated by insurance companies to justify higher premiums...  when people actually dig deeper, tort reform becomes nothing but a boon for insurance companies...  often times significantly limiting liability while at the same time not remotely reducing premium costs...  hint, your premiums aren't dictated by run away juries to any material extent.

The notion of tort reform basically flies in the face of the entire premise for tort liability...  when people understand what exactly causes runaway juries, they might not think as much of the wealth gap...

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:30 | 2637909 The Swedish Chef
The Swedish Chef's picture

But who is liable when you drown on a deserted beach? God? He made the beach, He should have made it safe, right? It just boggles the mind when you think about someone even considering to sue for a person drowning while on a night time swim. 



Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:32 | 2637913 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

If you drown on a deserted beach then yes god is responsible and if he/she truly exists then you two can hug it out in the afterworld.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:01 | 2638050 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

There is no god, and if there was, someone helped him make the beach, therefore creating a joint liability?

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 01:33 | 2638406 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

People need to get over the concept of suing...  there's a huge divide between filing a lawsuit and winning a lawsuit...  Further, the law has no problem whatsoever assigning fault to the deceased...

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:31 | 2637911 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

"tort reform at this point is merely an excuse to not be liable for one's actions."

Enough said, end of story.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:00 | 2637856 reader2010
reader2010's picture

Pretty soon, you will need to apply for a license to have sex with your partner in the name of rights protection.  Of course, some very expensive medical checkups are required on the regular basis for the bullshit. 

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:01 | 2637860 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

My wife has me convinced that I need one already....

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:05 | 2637866 reader2010
reader2010's picture

CongratulationsYou've got an All-American wife then. 

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:58 | 2637949 Matt
Matt's picture

a license or a checkup?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:59 | 2638044 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

911: " 911, what is your emergency. "
Man: " I think my wife is dead. "
911: " Sir, how do you know?"
Man: " Well, the sex is the same, but the ironing is piling up."

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:54 | 2638949 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

911: "911, what's your emergency?"
Man: "I think my wife is dead, you better send the coroner."
911: "You THINK she's dead? Are you sure?"
Man: "OK, hold on a second."
(sound of gunshot)
Man: "OK, now I'm sure."

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:11 | 2637879 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

It's not a real Jersey Shore story if it doesn't mention Snooki's due date*


*Dec. 21, 2012

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:33 | 2637914 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Mayans gonna get us, this is a sign.  Fuck.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 18:37 | 2637925 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

A visual emetic.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:41 | 2638007 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Please, the retards that produced that show along with the retards they found to be in it, anyone that considers themselves a fan, or who keeps track of Snookie's pap smear really need to get a life...

Why didn't they name it Vegas Nights! ?

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:03 | 2638054 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

I did not believe there was any significance to the end of the Mayan calendar until now. We are truly doomed.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:38 | 2638321 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

At first I thought the headline meant that by some freak occurrence and statist social conditioning that the entire cast of Jersey Shore drowned. 
My initial fleeting reaction was, Yeah!... government!!

(Oh does that make me sound like a eugenicist?)

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:01 | 2637920 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

More bullshit propaganda from ZH authors.

Privatize this and privatize that.  Sell the national parks so collusion and cronysm can pave the way to yet another so-called "market" to rip off those less fortunate among the populous. No enjoyment too small.

The "privatization model" ONLY works with justice and the rule of law not some fascist collusion with uncle sam known as TBTF ripping the fraud pyramid from top to bottom. 

James E Miller has to know this, and that he is trying to fake some intellectual fortitude while ignoring the obvious tells this reader he's shilling on the tit for fascism.

Give me a fucking break and let the stupid drown already, including these sorts of terrible "privatization because the free market will fix everything with a complimentary blowjob and life-jacket" ideas.


Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:47 | 2638022 Rocket-Man
Rocket-Man's picture

I was going to post a note that this article was a waste of Friday afternoon ZH space but you explained why, which I was too lazy to do.  So an upvote for you Widowmaker.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:21 | 2637977 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture

Damn Libertarians. I wrote the Libertarian National Anthem for them a year or so ago:


 The Libertarian National Anthem

by Squeeky Fromm

(To the tune of “Do Re Mi” from the Sound of Music)

Me . . .The Center of the World.
Me . . . I’ll never have enough.
Me . . .The One, it’s all about.
Me . . . Keep your hands off my stuff!

Me . . . Don’t try to take my Dough!
Me . . . Will never be a “We.”
Me . . . It’s MINE, ALL MINE!!! and so,
Everything comes down to Me, Me, Me, Me.

ChorusTo the same tune:

Me. . .Me Me . . . Me Me Me Me.
Me. . .Me Me Me Me Me Meeee!!!!
Me. . .Me Me . . . Me Me Me Me.
Me. . .Me Me Me Me Me Meeee!!!!

Me. . .Me Me Me Me Me Meeee!
Me. . .Me Me Me Me Me Meeee!
Me. . .Me Me Me Me Me Meeee!
Me Me Me Me . . Me Me . . Me Me Me Me. . .

Squeeky Fromm
Girl Reporter

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:57 | 2638041 Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

Brilliant...but blaming the libertarians misses the mark. if liberals and libertarians were agreeing on a reasonable path I believe this country would be in fine shape. 

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:36 | 2638109 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

If you are talking about liberals in the sense that the word is used in the US (as opposed to Europe, which is far closer to libertarian) there is simply no common philosophical ground for agreement, much less a common vision of what is a reasonable path.  The need for control in the mindset of American liberals over people they will never know living in places they will never go precludes any agreement on anything.

Most libertarian types dont care what a hard core progressive area like San Franciso does or how its people live, but the progressives are deeply conccerned about the goings on elsewhere and have no intention of allowing anyone else to live in a manner or than what they the San Franciscans deem proper.

There can be no compromise with such people, it is only agreeing to drink half a glass of poison instead of a full one.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:40 | 2638200 SqueekyFromm
SqueekyFromm's picture


Thank you for saying it was brilliant!!! But, if Libertarians were reasonable, then they wouldn't be Libertarians.  Can you imagine the idiocy of the author saying that beaches ought to be privatized??? Like what would that solve??? Before long it would be a $5.00 towel fee, $3.27 flip flop fee, $2.00 sand replacement fee. Then, they would do bundling stuff like cable TV, where you pay for stuff you don't use, like a $6.00 Sun Tanning Fee, even if you lay under a umbrella. 

Squeeky Fromm, Girl Reporter

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:23 | 2638302 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Squeeky, you are more right than you realize. I grew up on Long Island in the 70's. We used to skip out of school and sneek off to the beach in the Hamptons. Literally pull over and park in the sand and go swimming. Grew up, moved to the midwest and got married. I took my wife back east to show her my old stomping grounds- now it costs 10 bucks at a meter where it used to be free, McMansions everywhere right up to the dune line. Guess it's their way to keep us commoners out... Next big storm, they'll be demanding federal bucks to do beach renourishment- they can go to hell and use their own dinero...

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:08 | 2638067 PeterSchump
PeterSchump's picture

I think you have mistakenly posted your personal anthem.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:40 | 2638117 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

You display all the intelligence and emotional stability of your namesake.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:38 | 2638259 Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Animals have a 'concept' of their owning something, or of the collective owning something, but not of other individuals owning something,


Hi animal.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 19:55 | 2638040 blindman
blindman's picture

oh, fuck off dirt bag inc, llc..
no offense, of course. just fuck off.
if you die you die, no foul or harm so
just fuck off.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:14 | 2638079 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

6 or 7 billion people on the planet.  who cares?  if you are stupid enough to not know your limits, then guess what.  live and learn or perish.  darwin may or may not have been right, but he might have had a point?

this isn't a mass shooting at the batman fan club.  nature is a bitch.  nature wins.  if you can't swim, don't go in the ocean.  and even if you are a good swimmer, then you know not to go in the ocean when it's too rough.

if i go to a beach, i prefer there aren't life guards.  it means i'm responsible for myself and not surrounded by idiots waiting for a bailout when they over extend themselves. 

i really like my analogy there.  that's lotsoffun.



Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:35 | 2638107 blindman
blindman's picture

right you are my friend. where i come from
there are both places where swimming is advised
and guarded and ill advised and unguarded.
it is choose your poison and enjoy the weather
as far as i can see. either way, if you die
you are on your own and then you can rightly
say to them that remain, fuck off with your stupid
and bad ass self important self, and good day.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 12:55 | 2638245 Jena
Jena's picture

Lifeguards on the beach.  Funny.  Where I grew up, there were lots of beachs and you could walk for miles without seeing a single person.  Not a single lifeguard, ever.  No large population base, of course, so maybe it'd be different if there were.  I doubt it, though.  Even in the summer when tourists were in town or during clam season there was no real regard for anyone's safety.  The clams were a different story -- they were more carefully watched.

Most beaches in the area were extending further out toward the ocean as sand got added to them, and rivers constantly changed course as they met the sea.  We had a lot of known areas for rip currents but every local who went in the water knew that one could pop up anywhere.  Getting out of a rip current was just one of the topics of discussion.  Being able to remember it what it happened to you was the test, I guess.

Every summer, the Coast Guard helicopter would fly up and down the coast looking for someone who got swept out.  Generally, they were a tourist.  Sometimes they had fallen off one of the fishing boats that took people out, but most likely it was a rip current.

No way to life guard 20 miles of beaches. 

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 20:15 | 2638080 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

Bennies are simply poor swimmers.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:29 | 2638144 e.blair
e.blair's picture

I know the area very well.

-The vast majority of the people who go at 5pm are locals.  Few tourists drive all the way to a beach and sit around waiting till 5pm.

-The locals are going for a 45 minute swim, and so don't want to pay for such a short amount of time.

-It is not blazing hot at 5pm.

-The waves are better usually at that hour.

-There is no problem finding a parking space.

-Has nothing to do with whether one is rich or poor.

-Nobody is thinking they can sue if they drown.

Just because the lawyers like to fuck up everything they fucking can doesn't mean that it would be a good idea to privatize the fucking beach.  This is a stupid fucking article.  People die in Yosemite, so privatize Yosemite?  This has nothing fucking to do with Austrian economists.  There is no money to be made after 5pm.  Privatizing the beaches would just result in ugly pavillions and big fucking "beach closed" signs.  Notice that this genius doesn't even explain how exactly privatizing the beaches would make a fucking difference.  People have been drowning as long as there have been people and will continue drowning as long as there remain people.  This isn't big government we're talking here.  During the day we're talking 2 adults selling badges, 10 high school kids checking badges at entrances, and a dozen life guards.  Government actually happens to work fine.  Maybe it is even the fucking exception that proves the rule.  But it does work.  TYLER TAKE DOWN THIS SHIT.  STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER READ ON ZERO HEDGE.  What the fuck does a Canadian know about beaches anyway?  That's a central problem with economists.  Keynesian, Austrian, Chicago, wherever, they start abstracting away with no knowledge of particulars.  TYLER WTF?  HAVE SOME STANDARDS MAN.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:01 | 2638279 pavman
pavman's picture

The biggest problem with privatization is... when any government agency privatizes a positive revenue generating enterprise (take Chicago parking meters for example) they trade long-term, steady income for short-term quick money.  In the end, privatization screws over tax payers as we all know how quickly these clowns blow through OPM.  And when ass clowns are in charge, you get a moronic tradeoff like $1.75 billion for a 100 year lease.  Then people scratch their heads when the parking meters go from $0.25 / minute to $4 a minute.  DUH.

Eventually, these same assclown governments need revenue again, usually after the elected official who made the genius deal has left office, and ... with no government owned, income producing entities...guess where they get the $$s?  From the parking meters or electric plants or water works they used to own?  No.  They don't have that anymore...eventually, there's only one place they can find for revenue and its your pocket (don't look now, there's 4 different government entities with their hand in YOUR pocket, and soon to be triple dipping thanks to obamacare if you own stocks that produce dividends).  And that's not including the Stealth tax that hurts the most vulnerable of society, e.g. inflation (in case any reader just happens to be an assclown politician...).

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:02 | 2638148 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The only problem I see is that drowning folks families have no business suing the government. 

They should just sue the ocean, and everything would be fine.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:27 | 2638187 bushwarcrime
bushwarcrime's picture

Agreed this is the stupidest article ever on ZH.  

Privatize the beaches? WTF, you can't spit on a NJ beach without getting fined, arrested, harrassed.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 21:43 | 2638206 notadouche
notadouche's picture

What next?  Who will protect me or who can my family sue if I fall asleep in my bathtub and drown.  Somebody else HAS to be responsible.  How could I ever be held accountable for my own actions?  

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:02 | 2638227 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

When they wouldn't allow my dog on the beach in NJ that was the last straw.  Haven't been back.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:27 | 2638247 blindman
blindman's picture

first of all anyone taking new jersey as an
example of anything relating to humanity is
an idiot. really, consider the rest of human history
and a bit of science and philosophy before you take the jersey shore populace as an example. oh fuck, yes, people drown
because they are morons. should we then configure all
of the structure of culture to make well for the morons
who attempt to swim but can not bother to first learn the
skill and in the ocean at
times of rough seas? there are places of protected
swimming for us, yet no guarantees.
i say it is up to their loved ones to help them out
or, oh well, they end up where they belong.
their loved ones have only themselves to blame for being
finance and its liquidity is not the ocean as much as
some would wish it were so. these are criminals not
gods of the seas, certainly not life guards.
and might privatizing waterfront property just entirely
eliminate the urban population, bad swimmers, from access to the strand? or would parking just be really
public access regulation is bad enough and now this mojo is encouraging further exclusivity. jesus, i can't be
bothered anymore in a country where you can be executed
for chewing gum and by the commander in chief, no trial, no trail and no gum, living in his own private idaho. and this land is your land, this land is private?
from .... here to there . oh hell

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:47 | 2638269 pavman
pavman's picture

I was shocked by the nanny-state mentality I found in Generation Y....

While working 3 years ago @ one of those questionable financial instutions, on a floor with Communist "art" (aka vintage Soviet Union propaganda posters about how work is good), that may or may not be headed up by a guy who's name reflects an asset that once held some real value (before they found a way to grow it in a lab), a Gen-Y colleague freaked out because I wore steel-toed boots during the winter to work.

I couldn't believe it.  Here we were surrounded by soviet propaganda posters and he's freaking out over my choice of winter footwear.  I was like...what's the big deal?  Its not like I'm running all over the building roundhousing people in the head.  In fact, until that point in time, I just assumed, justifiably so, that a steel toed boot's main purpose was to prevent toe breakage should something drop on your foot (that and it works great for kicking solid ice from wheel wells).

Anyway, I think Gen Y is definitely a cohort of pussies who were coddled too much as infants and need a good ass-kicking (no pun intended...really).

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 22:59 | 2638277 TerraHertz
TerraHertz's picture

Australian here.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha... Wait, are you serious? Ha ha hah ha hah ha hah... You PAY to use the beach? Ha ha ho ho ho... and you, you want to PRIVATIZE the beaches? Ha ha ha ha ha ha...

So, who are you going to sue after a shark bites you in half?

The sea. It can kill you. Get used to it. Also lawyers should be used as shark bait.

Fri, 07/20/2012 - 23:19 | 2638300 DrPepperJawa
DrPepperJawa's picture

I'm not going to repeat what others have said other than to say this wasn't a good article at all.

I hope this guy never goes to Hawaii where ALL beaches are public beaches.  He might have to interact with those pinko, commie, leftist socialist, <INSERT YOUR FAVORITE INSULT>, Hawaiians who have a right to enjoy the beautiful beaches of their state. 

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 01:04 | 2638392 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"it should be obvious that the market, that is millions of people economizing and trading voluntarily, has done a decent job of turning footwear into a relatively inexpensive good."

More like globalization and the exploitation of foreign pools of workers with reduced labor and environmental standards, but why ruin a grand fish tale with facts?

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:05 | 2638638 prole
prole's picture

Why ruin a good chat board with your tiresome commentary Che?

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 01:10 | 2638396 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

"we all learn through misfortune"

Except perhaps for those who inherit money for a living, and those TBTF who are protected from misfortune.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:06 | 2638640 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

That too can be a "misfortune".  There is way more in life that makes it fortunate than just money.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 01:52 | 2638418 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

Some great posts here..

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 03:38 | 2638464 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

What a fucking stupid article.  Privatise the beaches?  Who the fuck thought that little pearler up then?

I tell you what worries me more nowerdays.  Peoples ability to take responsibilty for their own actions, they just dont in todays gimme gimme world, it is always someones elses fault init?

Just wait till the power goes out one of these days, most of the pricks I know with them stupid fucking smart phones constantly fucking about with them, at all times are in for a real eye opener when the fucking thing wont work.  I bet a lot of you ZHers know at least one dick who lives through the stupid fucking toys?

We are going to hell in a hand cart folks, people have become to fucking stupid by half.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 09:58 | 2638634 prole
prole's picture

OK here is a (otherwise) Libertarians take on things hyea:

Give me the Government Beaches. Every square inch of land within (well as far as I can see) of me which is privately owned is "PRIVATE PROPERTY NO TRESPASSING" In other words, "my fellow Americans" all hate me, and as soon as they have ownership of some land they immedietaly exclude me. Give these beaches to the "private sector" and they will no sooner be all owned by some Insane money NWO "wildlife reguge" no humans allowed. (or at least no rabble=me) That or rich people's McMansions which exclude me. I believe a lot of California is set up like this?

Private sector beaches = Kennedy Compound next to Striesand compound next to Gates compound and any rabble who approaches gets shot by Blackwater Security.

Give me the Government Beaches of Ocean City Maryland.... Here where the rabble can lounge on the white sandy beaches all day all summer for totally FREE (by my last personal knowledge) Yeah parking/hotel is expensive etc, but the beach is free, and evenings the beach is open and unguarded, guarded all day, famous pro lifeguards.

If you can't swim and drown at night, maybe you should have stayed out of the water

I think what sucks about Jersey beaches is they are for PAY? Is this true you Jersey Inmates? That is what sux about them and that is what the writer should have been qvetching over.They have chains around them and fences and like everything else in New Jersey they just plain suck

So in conclusion: The Free market is great until it isn't, and now that I have reached total cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy rate of 100 I will self-destruct.

Bonus Comment: It is my belief that the British system of private land is somewhat better (or way better) than US, and that in Britain a hiker or mountain biker can wander through the countryside, including if it is technicaly someone's private property. I would appreciate confirmation/rubuttal of that last point.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 10:57 | 2638722 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

The term "Spontaneous Order" is an oxymoron to me.  It wreaks of all that is wrong in thinking today.  The idea (and hopey feely wishy thinking) that if we take a model and put all the pieces back in the box, shake it really well, and throw it high in the air, it will all come together in perfect order when it hits the ground.

Thinking like that reminds me of watching my 5 yr old run around making believe he is Optimus Prime with all the power and ability his little mind can dream up.  Order does NOT come from spontaneity.  Order comes from the rule of law.  The laws of physics determine the order of our world.  The laws of biology determine the order of our bodies.  The rules/laws of a football game determine the actions in that game.

The real question in pretty much every subject of ZH that we then discuss and debate back and forth is, what are the laws that determine the order of the human mind? The world today is running as fast as it can to explain the laws of the mind on the genetic make up or the chemical make up of the brain.  Right now they are trying to determine what went wrong, chemically or genetically with the freak that shot up the theater.

Maybe it is as simple as this: the rules and laws of the social interactivity of the mind MUST BE TAUGHT.  We are not animals that act on chemical impulse or biological instinct but rather HUMAN BEINGS that must be taught right from wrong.  That we are taught we are not just another "animal" life form, but rather a being with something the animal world does not have......a conscience!  That we should listen to our conscience.  That we should avoid those things that distort our conscience (our lines of right and wrong, good and evil).  That the greatest/highest social challenge in life is to learn to "love one another as we love ourselves".  Just imagine the problems in the world that would be solve by following that rule.

All the little plans, schemes, rules, etc. we come up with are never going to correct the deficiency of right and wrong we have in this country.  There are SO many things that are wrong that are taught as right today.  We live in a world where evil is good and good is evil.  When that is the case, and you dream about things like "spontaneous order", it is time to wake up and then grow up.

Sat, 07/21/2012 - 18:59 | 2639388 RichardP
RichardP's picture

That the greatest/highest social challenge in life is to learn to "love one another as we love ourselves".

Greater love hath no man than that he should lay down his life for a friend.

One of the dudes in the Colorado theater threw himself in front of his girlfriend.  So far as I know, she survived.  He didn't.

On hunting trips, I've seen bucks throw themselves in front of does that were being shot at.  Makes me proud to be an animal.  Oh, wait ...  Not.

Sun, 07/22/2012 - 02:03 | 2639859 mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

More people die driving to the Jersey shore than in it.

Believe it or not, tourism is the biggest business in NJ, mostly for the shore. If it was private, it would be lined with mansions and that business would be pretty much gone. Most of the beaches are only there due to massive government expenditures on pumping sand onto them. And all those private houses on barrier islands 3 feet above the water haven't washed away  due to such government efforts - arranged by the wealthy owners.

People don't form lines naturally in most countries - it's more like a fight.

No town has been sued for these drowning, typical strawman argument from the frozen libertarian.

Wouldn't the libertarian credo be that people should be allowed to go swimming whenever they want? Including hurricanes and whatever?  Instead it seems to be his interpretation that rich people should buy all the shoreline they want and keep everyone else off. Common ownership of ocean and rivers is fundamental in Anglo-Saxon societies - pretty much the only societies where people form the lines voluntarily he loves so much.







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