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Guest Post: Startling The Global Community, Canada Withdraws From The Kyoto Convention
Submitted by John C.K. Daly of OilPrice.com
Startling the Global Community, Canada Withdraws from the Kyoto Convention
Canada has announced its intention to withdraw from the Kyoto treaty on greenhouse gas emissions (GGE), sandbagging the other signatories to the convention. The Kyoto protocol, initially adopted in Kyoto, Japan in 1997, was designed to combat global warming with the agreement allowing countries like China and India take voluntary, but non-binding steps to reduce their greenhouse gas carbon emissions.
International condemnation was swift.
China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Liu Weimin said at a news briefing, "It is regrettable and flies in the face of the efforts of the international community for Canada to leave the Kyoto Protocol at a time when the Durban meeting, as everyone knows, made important progress by securing a second phase of commitment to the Protocol. We also hope that Canada will face up to its due responsibilities and duties, and continue abiding by its commitments, and take a positive, constructive attitude towards participating in international cooperation to respond to climate change."
Xinhua, China's state news agency, labeled Ottawa's decision "preposterous, an excuse to shirk responsibility" and implored the Canadian government to reverse its decision so it could help reduce global emissions of GGEs.
Beijing’s comments are significant, not least because the PRC is currently the world's biggest producer of GGEs after the U.S., but China has stalwartly insisted that the Kyoto Protocol remain the foundation of the world’s efforts to curb GGE emissions, which scientists maintain are a significant contributor to global warming. Pleading its special status as a developing nation China at the recently concluded climate change negotiations in Durban was granted an extension of the terms of implementing the Kyoto protocol until 2017 even as it bowed to pressure to launch later talks for a new pact to succeed the Kyoto protocol that would legally oblige all the big GGE producers to act.
Japan also expressed displeasure at the Canadian decision, but in a more nuanced approach, Japanese Environment Minister Goshi Hosono urged Canada to continue to support the Kyoto agreement, which included "important elements" that could help fight climate change.
UN climate chief Christiana Figueres opined in a statement released to the press, “I regret that Canada has announced it will withdraw and am surprised over its timing. Whether or not Canada is a party to the Kyoto Protocol, it has a legal obligation under the convention to reduce its emissions, and a moral obligation to itself and future generations to lead in the global effort.”
A spokesman for France's Foreign Ministry called Canada’s decision “bad news for the fight against climate change.”
Even plucky Southern Pacific island nation Tuvalu weighed in with its lead negotiator Ian Fry bluntly stating in an e-mail to Reuters, "For a vulnerable country like Tuvalu, it’s an act of sabotage on our future. Withdrawing from the Kyoto Protocol is a reckless and totally irresponsible act."
The silence from Washington on the issue was significant, as the United States Bush administration refused to sign the protocol, arguing instead that China and other big emerging emitters should come under a legally binding framework that does away with the either-or distinction between advanced and developing countries.
Toughing it out, Canadian Minister of the Environment Peter Kent stated that the protocol "does not represent a way forward," adding that meeting Canada's obligations under the Kyoto convention would cost $13.6 billion, asserting, "That's $1,546 from every Canadian family - that's the Kyoto cost to Canadians, that was the legacy of an incompetent Liberal government."
Canada’s decision nevertheless has garnered a few supporters. Australian Minister of Climate Change Greg Combet has defended Canada's decision, remarking, "The Canadian decision to withdraw from the protocol should not be used to suggest Canada does not intend to play its part in global efforts to tackle climate change." One might note here that coal is Australia’s third largest export.
So, why the abrupt Canadian volte-face? Canada has the world's third-largest oil reserves, more than 170 billion barrels and is the largest supplier of oil and natural gas to the U.S.
The answer may lie in Canada’s far north, in Alberta’s massive bitumen tar sands deposits, a resource that Ottawa has been desperate to develop. Since 1997 some of the world’s biggest energy producers have spent $120 billion in developing Canada’s oil tar sands, which would be at risk if Ottawa went green in sporting the Kyoto accords.
According to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, more than 170 billion barrels of oil sands reserves now are considered economically viable for recovery using current technology. Current Canadian daily oil sands production is 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd), but Canadian boosters are optimistic that production can be ramped up to 3.7 million bpd by 2025.
So, what’s the problem?
Extracting oil from tar sands is an environmentally dirty process and the resultant fuel has a larger carbon footprint than petroleum derived from traditional fossil fuels, producing from 8 to 14 percent more CO2 emissions, depending on which scientific study you read.
So, Canada acceding to the Kyoto Treaty terms would effectively kill the burgeoning Canadian tar sands extraction industry. The Canadian tar sands already suffered a massive setback earlier this year when the Obama administration effectively sidelined the Keystone XL pipeline, which was due to transports tar oil production across the U.S. to refineries on the Gulf Coast.
So, Ottawa on the Kyoto convention has effectively drawn its line in the sand(s.)
Where things go from here is anyone’s guess.
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I know there are many weather changes now in almost every country, but the earth is actually cooling, and it is thought that we are entering an ice age (www.iceagenow.com). Apparently all these weather changes are typical of the period just before an ice age. There is NO preparation for this event, and millions, if not billions will die due to food shortage and freezing conditions.
There was some stuff in the TV media a couple of years ago about the Maldives being under water in a few years, and they all went 'green'. But the Maldives have not changed in that time, and the sea levels generally are actually FALLING and not RISING.
The false parts are the 'warming' and the 'Co2 angle'. Otherwise, we are experiencing 'climate change', the clever 'take a step back' replacement term for 'global warming'. The globalists are making the most of these weather changes to enforce a carbon tax, which will eventually be used to tax breathing. And, it is this effort that is thankfully failing.
I used to be terrified of global warming and I read and read and read, but then realised it is all crap (although the weather changes are very real, as you point out).
I visited the Maldives for a 10 day diving trip. The highest natural point on the main island is 14 feet. I asked many locals if they were concerned about the ocean rising, and to a person they laughed. One of them pointed out a new hotel being build, funded in part by european nobility. I guess they put their money where their mouth isn't.
European nobility who paid for the extravaganza of the Maldives parliament meeting underwater in wetsuits and breathing apparatus, which was televised for the world a few years ago, to show that soon the Maldives would be no more, God save their souls ..... UNLESS .. we all work together to reduce our carbon footprint!!! Good scam.
Another scam is PEAK OIL
http://thedailybell.com/1362/Peak-Oil-Bites-the-Dust.html
http://thedailybell.com/2973/Americas-New-Production-and-the-Farce-of-Pe...
Interesting that the good people of the Maldives laugh when asked about rising seas, because I have read that those in the oil industry laugh when they are asked about peak oil. Peak oil has been on the go since the 1970s, so if the peak was then, how come we have hugely expanded the oil production since then? Also, they say that no big oil fields have been found for decades (and these are reputable sources, like investment articles, etc) - again, not true - offshore in Brazil, in Puerto Gaitan in Colombia, both in the last 2 years, for example. They will do their best to make it seem like there's an oil shortage, due to price fixing, wars and manipulation of countries, but it's not true.
Global warming (climate change), peak oil and the war on terror, are each multi billion dollar promotions designed to scare us so that we relinquish our freedom and privileges (what is left) to globalist institutions, with the end goal of One World Government.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/warmest-year-with-a-la-nina-ev/58392
funny way of cooling off
Another interesting aspect is that the mainstream media NEVER report such news on the Maldives (ie. falling or unchanged sea levels) which would argue against a global carbon tax or agreement, because they are OWNED by the very originators of the global warming promotion (ie. the Rothschilds) (see David Rothschild travelling the planet on youtube documenting the horrors of CO2 induced climate change. Sure, it is climate change, but it is not by any means proven to be due to CO2.
The Rothschilds lead a cabal of elite families (banking families) who have been working towards one world government for centuries. They have many prongs to their attack (fiat currency, GM food, recombinant pandemic viruses released deliberately (future), vaccines for sterilisation, RFID chips, false flags, etc, etc). They own 300-500 trillion dollars, the most powerful family in the world.
There are many good articles on OWG, central banking, Rothschilds, and the fakery of global warming on www.thedailybell.com.
Thanks for your question.
I understand what you saying and I'm absolutely against any carbon taxes or whatever taxes they invent to get some money from producing countries to level field with services economies. At the same time mindless push to extract any available $ in natural resoureces, regardless of costs must stop, don't you think?
absolutely agree
Funny you know so much yet don’t even know the basics. The term Eskimo is inappropriate, they like to be called Inuit… Def. of Eskimo: “eater of raw meet”.
The rest of your point of view seems just as educated…
Funny how it is YOU who suffers from foot-in-mouth syndrome here.
For your information, the word "Eskimo" is only considered inappropriate in hyper-politically-correct Canada, where they can't even bring themselves to use the simple and universally-recognized word "native", the guardians of political correctness there insisting on the absurd phrase "Aboriginal First Nations Peoples" instead (and note to Canadian purveyors of PC: they were NEVER nations in any meaningful sense).
In Alaska, "Eskimo" is the ONLY word used, by both Eskimos and non-Eskimos alike, to describe that ethnic group as a whole, and NOBODY calls themselves "Inuit" here (although talking more specifically, the words "Inupiat" and "Yupik" are used to refer to either one of the two main branches of Eskimo peoples in Alaska).
Please educate yourself before casting PC-colored stones.
Hey, I jumped on the Eskimo bit mostly to discredit your argument by discrediting you. OK, sorry, cheap shot…
I understand your point but I disagree with the global warming issue.
BTW if you happen to be in my neck of the woods down here in FL, don’t call blacks niggers just because some blacks call each other that way… it’s not about PC it’s about self-preservation.
I hope you still have a good weekend.
Very magnanimous of you, Catch-22.
Notice, though, that I did not bring up CO2 or anthropogenic global warming --- I was merely pointing out some obvious evidence of a warming climate in my neck of the woods. I'll let others make whatever inferences they will.
And for what it's worth, I was much more attacking the ridiculous extent to which political correctness runs rampant in Canada in my post above than I was attacking you --- I NEVER overlook an opportunity to tweak the Canadian collective nose in that regard.
;-)
Yeah, it's always a disaster when it happens in your neck of the woods. I'll give you an example; back in the late 70's early 80's the water levels rose in the great lakes. This wa particularly devestating on Lake Erie. The high water level caused considerable eriosion of lake front properties and their owners were pissed that the government wasn't doing anything about it.
What could they do, lake levels are cyclical, and people who lived on the lake took for granted that the low water level was the norm, because it was all they had experienced, however government water level charts showed that over time, the levels fluctuate considerably with a relatively stable range. You had to have lived in the area for several decades to be aware of the phenomenon.
Again, this time in the late 90's early 00's a friend of mine bought a large boat and moored it in Gorgian Bay. When wlthout warning, the water levels dropped. In order to get his boat launched, they had to get a huge vessel to anchor at the marina exit with engines at full throttle to push enough water into the basin to be able to float the boat. Having a good set of navigational charts was a must because the hazzards marked were that much closer to the surface.
What I am saying is, it's all cyclical. If you want to know what it could be like you need to talk to the elder citizens who have had decades of experience and have seen the cyclical nature of things.
But we all know, that in this age of the worship of youth, the elderly are not but a burden, and have nothing to offer.
Talk to us you might just learn something.
In Canada we often refer to our primitive friends as 'chugs' due to their propensity to drunk a lot of alcohol. I ran a spacing crew of folks from the local reserve and was very impressed with their aggressive chain saw work. Boss man Slavador says "Hey chug get back to work". First nation guy replies "Shut up Bohunk or I'll cut your legs off!"
Only the stupid and useless are PC in Canada...
"Chug", lol!
I've worked with more than a few "chugs" myself, just never ran across that particular word before.
Too funny!
Only the stupid and useless are PC in Canada...
like Harper
What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?
Exactly.
cant they just play farmville instead? i dont think walruse hunting is a billion dollar IPO to be
Do you have any idea of what the terrain and climate around a place like Kotzebue is actually like?
It is the ARCTIC --- even spruce trees will not grow there. The "growing season" (i.e., average frost-free season) is around 60 days, and rarely above 60 degrees even then. Farming in the tundra, in that climate, would be about as possible as spending a day at the beach in southern Algeria.
yes the fake global warming has created a fake arctic ice melt
The ice melting is not fake - its happening. Probably more reported on in Canada than south of the border. That being said ... whether or not it is due to cyclical conditions or man made, I don't know. There has been so much crap spewed on both sides of the debate. And one other caveat - Cap and Trade was/is a ponzi scheme waiting to happen.
+1. Agreed, global warming and ice cap melting is a reality. How it is cause, though, is really not well known.
I have read many reports about sun spot activity increasing in the last 20 years. I believe much of this is caused by the sun.
Do a little more reading then
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming.htm
http://www.skepticalscience.com/solar-activity-sunspots-global-warming-advanced.htm
do you drive a car?
if you smoke 5 packs a day you can't tell people it causes cancer?? messengers dont have to listen to themselves.. no one else is either
Yeah, CO2 has a greater effect on global warming, oops climate change, than the sun. Looking to buy a slightly used bridge in NY, I have a suggestion...
Obviosuly you've never heard the term synergistic.
And no doubt you are unfamiliar with homeostasis, second order effects, and compensating feedback loops, or with the second law of thermodynamics.
Dude I would wipe the floor with you on all those topics. You continue to live in your world of denial.
Yeah whatever.. You are so successful in wiping the floor with deniers that the harder you work, the more skeptics you and your greenies create. Based on your track record to date, you are an abject failure.
On a separate note, I am sorry if it hurts your feelings that I do not believe in your AGW one world religion. I suggest smoking dope or deprogramming as an alternative, more fun and it will definitely increase your circle of acquaintances.
Yeah yeah, attack the person, not the topic, sure sign of failure in your argument.
Hmmm Praetor, would you like me to quote the posts where you and your greenies refer to sceptics as deniers? Hung by your own words, just like the EA clowns.
YES. IT IS TOTALLY, COMPLETELY FAKE. Always with these people you have to look a little deeper to understand what SOCIOPATHIC LIARS they are.
My uncle used to fly over the Dew Line conducting surveys and kills himself laughing at the BS we get spoonfed nowadays. What people forget is the polar ice cap moves around, there is no exposed land at the North Pole. At the end of the Second World War, the North West Passage was completely free of ice.
Current readings at Resolute suggest that this winter is going to be a cold one. Hopefully, the passage will be so full of ice this year that they get the idea it is not simplistically "melting" as they claim. Then again, the arctic oscillation and decadal oscillations change the ice situation all the time.
Everybody pays lip service to this thing as though it has scientific merit, but it's all doublespeak for a wealth redistribution con. IT'S NOT REAL. Conceptually, it's identical to a Medieval Catholic Indulgence: money for "forgiveness."
Message to the Club of Rome: TAKE YOUR "Threat of Global Warming" AGENDA 21 AND SHOVE IT!
Can you provide a link that supports the claim that "At the end of Second World War, the North West Passage was completely free of ice" - Thanks
Sun Cycles look it up, its at its peak till 2015.
Please provide a reputable citation or link
there are many google is your friend. (google sun cycles at their peak till 2015)
No... I have lots of links that refute any correlation with sunspot cycles and the observed GW.... you first...
Of course you do, faggotmeister. Greenie scientists are the same as whores, except more expensive and alot uglier.
hmm spitting hyperbole and making up names, feels like grade 7 every time I see one of your posts
I think you are insulting most kids in grade 7.... but it is rare to have a lower grade with such a potty mouth, tough call.
C'mon Faggy, you can do better than that....
here is one for ja if you don't want to google :) because i am nice.
http://www.eworldvu.com/international/2011/5/6/solar-cycle-24-and-global-climate-science.html
All I see is an opinion piece....
Here is an actual peer reviewed paper that came out recently, there is an added bonus in that it is a new methodology that is somewhat indepencent from other studies....
http://thingsbreak.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/anthropogenic-and-natural-warming-inferred-from-changes-in-earths-energy-balance.pdf
Here's some actual facts that should make you very happy then ...
http://biggovernment.com/jdunetz/2011/05/13/nasa-gets-caught-faking-clim...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/feb/01/leaked-emails-climate-...
If it is so stark and plain that global warming (climate change) due to CO2 is plaguing us all, why do people fake the data then? `
so all the data is "faked?" Case closed? Those guys in brittain are the only one working on it? The oil companies have not offered 10,000 a head to scientists to take their position? The powers that be and the current energy powers have no interest in keeping the status quo?
things at the top are real confusing ...Canada is totally in grip of the Globalist from the normal look of things...then how come this withdrawal suddenly
Wait, China is lecturing Canada about environmental issues. Too funny!
Thanks Tyler for the Friday funnies contribution.
Maybe Canada figured out that a warmer planet might benefit them, eh?
pods
It is all about the far North and what lies underneath spurred on (some might say ironically) by the melting ice cap :
http://www.economist.com/node/14313727
Guess Canada will have all the jobs now!
Oh yeah, one more thing, FUCK YOU AL GORE. You truely are a piece of shit!
Canada has a massive housing bubble to deal with. It cannot afford paying for global warming. Each nation for itself and let the earth fend for itself.
Besides, global warming means more wheat production in Canada.
Canada will need that agricultural money to support its insolvent banks.
Instead of O Canada, we have the new Canadian anthem - et tu, Canada.
Vancouver is a tad bit more expensive than Seattle.
If you live in Detroit, I guess you're fucked.
Yeah Canadians! Finally getting a brain and backbone. Love you guys, keep up the good work.
Mankind cannot cool down the world by making small changes in our use of fuels. The entire climate change shenanigan is a phony ploy by environmentalists to extract money from big oil and utilities. The science of weather is very complex. Simply reducing CO2 output from mankind won't have an impact on temperatures.
Richard Lindzen is one of the world's top atmospheric physicists and is known for his work in the dynamics of the middle atmosphere, atmospheric tides and ozone photochemistry. He has published more than 200 scientific papers and books. He clearly concludes that CO2 levels in the atmosphere have minimal impact on global warming.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lindzen
We are still coming out of the backside of an ice-age and the world will continue to warm up regardless of what Al Gore and the UN tells you about CO2.
I still don't understand why the main stream media doesn't listen to Richard Lindzen or quote him. Oh yeah, the MSM is in the pocket of the environmentalists lobby.
Canada did the right thing for their country and their citizens.
I for one hope it stays warm. Take a look at the ice core data from Greenland. From the data you can see that we are experiencing a nice warm period that is well, abnormal in that the earth is usually much colder and in fact we are cooling if you look back more then the microsecond of history that is our time on earth.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/09/hockey-stick-observed-in-noaa-ice-...
Not global warming but climate change. I don't buy into everything scientists are saying but from my own observatations in a few locales - just denying is stupid. Anyone who posts and says it is getting warmer .... you are missing the whole point.
A reputable scientist like Lindzen has some good arguments against man-made climate change . Many other reputable scientists have equally good arguements for man-made climate change.
If he is right and we do nothing then all we have lost is a few percent in GDP growth and we gain a cleaner planet.
However if he is wrong and we end up ruining the planet the downside could be our extinction.
That's a huge disparity in outcomes. A rational approach is surely assume that we are causing it and to do all we can to stop causing it.
you just nailed it.
Yeah, here we go again with the precautionary principle. Let's burn the village to roast the pig, or cut off the leg to cure the ingrown toenail. Without a proper cost benefit analysis, the PP is so much bunk, designed to impress the credulous.
Oh you mean that big tobacco, coal and oil shill? Gee who would've thought he'd go against AGW? /sarc
The same Richard Lindzen that recieved $2500 per day from oil and coal interests?
http://www.logicalscience.com/skeptics/Lindzen.htm
and from the link you provide
I guess none of the greenie scientists are on corporate payrolls. But I seem to recall a letter from one of the east anglia scientists in 1999 suggesting alliances with Goldman Sachs. Would you like me to share it with you???
and if east anglia were the only scientists and science working on this subject, that would mean something. This subject is too big, invloves too many systems, and effects too much money NOT to have corruption on both sides which it does. To think evidence of it on either settles the issue is naive at best.
One certainly gets the impression oil supplies are tighter than is commonly understood.
And? Paying a carbon tax won't solve anything. Plants eat CO2. The environmentalists want to stop the third world from industrializing... keeping them into slavery forever. So please.
Environmentalists are TOOLS of the elite. Fuck em for being so stupid.
Sorry guys but have to finally respectfully and fully disagree,
the deal was a nitemare and foolishly signed by JC. We have
some of the largest investments in the world underway to
vastly lower our CO2 outputs, (our oil industries desperately need
massive overhauls for all the above reasons) but we are so
lucky to have these resources, the skilled people, and great
protection for the north american continent! Nobody is pointing
fingers from this side of the border fellows, we have alot of
hardwork ahead to fix the terrible mistakes and legacy of the
oilpatch, worked for Exxon at one time in the oilsands business
The Globalists no longer need the Carbon tax since they have other ways to fuck us. Why stir up the sheep when you can slaughter them without showing your knife.
how can anybody think that those thousand year old ice shelves that are breaking off and melting are going to " grow back" if we have one cold winter . too funny
I'm picturing a bunch of climatechange debunkers standing next to a melting iceberg, calling it names and saying it's faking it.
Ah yes and the world has never had a climate change in the past. We have never before had an ice age or warm periods. Ice tables have never grown or melted they have always been in their same pristine condition . It's only happening now when people like Al Gore can start a fund in which to make money off of the ever changing weather habits. Climate by it's very own nature is always changing.You zealots look like clowns.
have you read the conclusions presented at Durban? It would be enrichening for a specialist on climate matters to address it here at ZH. We are all, those of us who are not climate specialists, as this is admittedly a new pseudo science, impressed by the correlations based on empiricism, which does apply even if the theory has not been elaborated to explain "transient phenomena" and explain why/if transience is or is not a systemic breakdown. Those guys who work on this have now stated, two years after Copenhagen, that 75% of change based on data analysis conforms according to new syntheses, to human activity. I don't see many articles in december 2011 refuting these new conclusions. We are talking about scientific facts not fiction.
I'm not expert in the environmet sciences but one thing I know we use much more energy every year and lets say our devices are about 50%(maybe more or less) efficient it means that whatever left is emmited to environment and nobody can negate it. If it has impact on our world, I don't know, but probably it has to have some influence.
Hey, if you want to talk about pollution I'm up with that. When the air is so bad in SoCal that you can't go outdoors, that's a tragedy and something needs to be done.
When our manufacturers ship the "dirty" manufacturing plant to China and India, well that's OK by me. And when China has to close down industry to be able to have air clean enough to an Olympic games, it kind of drives home the point.
The thing is, it's never the polluter that pays. Pollution controls are deemed to be government interference, so the polluter gets off and the consumer pays. (as always)
BUT when some asshat tells me that the gas I exhale with every breath is a pollutant, I say fuck you.
The CO2 bogey man is a hoax, and nothing more than a money making scam set up by Goldman Sachs and the NWO oligarchs.
are you saying an inbalance of any substance or compound within your body could not cause you harm? And this principle could not apply to an ecosphere? The CO2 is "natural" argument is the most naive and illogical one in the pack.
Durban proved nothing other than greenies like to spend money, and produce CO2 to indulge their mutual self admiration society. It was an abject failure and an embarrasment for UN seeking more money from the great unwashed.
Having lived for a negligible span of time, you might not know it, but glaciers advance and retreat countless times over the course of millions of years.
I guess it is just market forces when a good fraction of the worlds cities that define human culture are under 5 feet of water (not to mention the mass migrations and loss of arable land)... Adam Smiths Invisible Hose or some such....
lol...if you think that's what's gonna happen...probably will throw the planet into an ice age if/when the Gulf Stream stops.
I'll be short Iceland Real Estate
There is good reason to believe that N. Europe will indeed ice over despite the overall temp of the plant increasing...
Of course, faggotmeister, there is good reason to believe that N. Europe will indeed ice over despite the overall temp of the planet increasing.;.. the great god Gore told you so...
More pessimism porn from the fagmeister. How the fuck do you know this will happen, when the orginal computer models were predicting in 2000 that snow would be a thing of the past in England by 2010. Gawd, you are pathetic.
Thank you for posting this. It was my second wish that has stuck its nose out on a ZH post. Yes, Kyoto and Durban are important to the world, its future. The Canadians are soooooooooooooo deep in rucking up the mud in Alberta for tar sands, as they will probably continue to do for Arctic oil in futre, they don't want to pledge their support to the global cause. One more first world country traitor to global ecological protection.
And they are called out by.....
Wait for it..............
CHINA?
:)
pods
its a cynical world; Every dumb nation, slaving away according to the old mantra, the hyperconsumption age, cheap oil paradigm, hanging on to past values, blind to the Apache's eerie ear that can pick up the hoof beats of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, way before the average man does. And don't hang your prejudices on Al Gore, he is just an Oligarch with a hidden agenda, as he got cheated out from "top spot". The game is much bigger than the players, that is what keeping your eye on the ball is about. Never say die to hope and to Apache wisdom.
That drought in Texas keeps up, the temperate zones migrate north, armed, hungry Mercans start crossing that border like wading across the Rio Grande and those Canucks will wish they never heard of tar sands.
That drought in Texas keeps up, the temperate zones migrate north, armed, hungry Mercans start crossing that border like wading across the Rio Grande and those Canucks will wish they never heard of tar sands.
**********
That was tried once (1812)
The result of it was we lit your White-house" on fire-
We sent the US Cavalry into full retreat when they came after the great Chief Sitting Bull-
Good one! Those wily Canucks chased the Americans all the way back to Washington, burnt down what was then the Whitehouse, but then went back home when the Yanks ran out of beer. The Americans called it a "retreat" and claimed they won the war.
Laura Secord!
actually it was british regulars that did that
actually it was british regulars that did that
*************
Get real-in those days canada and britain were one and the same-
I suppose if you go with those thoughts-it wasn't the americans who won the war of independence--it was the french-
agreed- however the majority of the fighting in the war of 1812 took place between 'canadians' and americans. This particular incident however, as well as a few sorties along the east coat of the 13 colonies were conducted by british navy regulars that were on their way back from war excursions during the peninsular war. The remainder were fought by primarily landed 'canadians' and indians.
Sure. That will double RE prices in Canada AGAIN!
**CHUCKLE**
Canada was one of the biggest cheerleaders of the environment until they discovered they can make a shitload of money selling us oil derived from tarsands which is one of the dirtiest sources in thw world and one of the most environmentally destructive as well.
Well go ahead Canada. No matter whether or not Global Warming is real, you will continue to destroy your immediate environment as well as feed your delusions of infinite growth from the money derived from your oil industry.
That shit will run out in your lifetime and then what.
In any case.....don't ever lecture us again on anything. You may have been right in the past....now you're just like us.
Fuck you Cannucks.
"Cannucks" When liberals are losing the argument, they always resort to name calling and emotional rants. Put a double L on your forehead, why don't cha.
"Cannucks" When liberals are losing the argument, they always resort to name calling and emotional rants. Put a double L on your forehead, why don't cha.
ROTFLMAO !!!
What a programmed robot. Say something against the all powerful diety of oil and the illusion and delusion it has wrought and you are immediately tagged a liberal.
For your information Asshat, I have voted Republican/Conservative since 1972 starting with Nixon and ending with George W. in 2000.
Oil is not a god. The industrial age delusion it brought with its attendant wealth is just that...a delusion and illusion. It will end in our lifetimes.
Same with coal.
And you will be left with this.....
http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/57_tn.jpg
And this.....
http://www.myessentia.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/TarSands.jpg
And this.....
http://www.desmogblog.com/sites/beta.desmogblog.com/files/blogimages/01_...
And this....
http://www.circleofblue.org/waternews/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/tar-san...
And this...
http://one-blue-marble.com/images/photos/tailing-pond-alberta.jpg
And this.....
http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/mountaintop-removal-pr...
So....imapopulistnow...it is a better bet that YOU are a Liberal since they jumped to conclusions without evidence...as you did about me....AND you want to rape the land to continue an illusion of a system that will fail from its own weight in our lifetime, which definately proves you are NOT CONSERVATIVE since you do not want to CONSERVE.
But....thanks for playing "THE ASS IN ASSUME STANDS FOR ME" game. Come back soon and play again.
Obvious people like this guy never worked a hard day in their life.. City dwelling artsy communist who lies that he is a conservative.
Read his bleeding heart posts- dude judges (and of course blames) everyone even though his liberal beliefs are the chief reason for the moral decay of this once proud nation. The last tell is the personal attacks he delivers to those with undeniable truth and reason.
Oh...hi Mr. Sits In His Mother's Basement Masterbating To Pictures of Hitler and Ayn Rand.....
That's quite good how you got your head Photoshopped to your ass for your Avatar.
Listen junior....I have been working since the age of 10, first starting out with a neighborhood lawn care business. I have managed multi-million dollar retail stores from high-end jewelry to furniture to consumer electronics. I have also been a meterologist for 5 different TV stations across the country and have also run and managed not 1 but 2 video and tv production companies. At the age of 48 now, I travel world-wide managing, setting up, and running and trouble shooting electronic and video scoring systems for the PGA and Tennis worlwide.
Oh....and in the mean-time I am beginning to put together a small working farm on my 4 and 1/2 acres of land 40 miles from the nearest big city with the intent to increase that acreage in the future for when the shit hits the fan in earnest. While I am doing that my wife home-schools our 5 kids who all work on the land when they are not involved in Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, church functions and achieving better test scores than their government schooled friends.
And you will still be masterbating to Hitler and Ayn Rand and Margaret Sanger in your mother's basement.
But once again.....thanks for playing "THE ASS IN ASSUME STANDS FOR ME" game. Come back and play again soon.
So you are 48 and managed to vote for Nixon at age 9?? If you don't lie you don't need to remember what you said.
I would laugh my ass off seeing you in a Rig Fab Yard or Drilling Site. You even think that all those job in your little Radio, Television and Film career actually created wealth. Wealth is only created my mining, processing and and transporting said valve added goods. Lies coupled with your personal attacks yield more who you really are..a liberal with so much self doubt of your importance that you lie to feel better.
I thought the old saying was when you assume, you make an ass of u and me.. but I'm sure the old adage has some more clever meaning then when it made generations ago to make employees more careful..
ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes I DID vote for Nixon at 9 in my Citizenship class at the private school I attended from kindergarten to 12th grade. That's right....Citizenship class....apart from the history class I was also taking. We actually at one time...at least in my school...had a Citizenship Class that taught us young minds full of mush all about what it takes to be a good American Citizen starting with the founding of the country until the present day.
We had a mock election and I was politically aware...as much as a 9 year old could be....enough to know that I like what Nixon stood for versus McGovern and so I voted for Nixon.
Sorry.....I guess I should have clarified.....but thanks for continuing to play "THE ASS IN ASSUME STANDS FOR ME" game.
I also apologize for bumfuzzling your pathetic Rupert Murdoch/Fox News mind by using some speech that might seem liberal yet telling you truthfully my conservative bonafides from an early age. You see....I finally awoke from the Matrix and realize that the whole GREEN/SOCIALIST/COMUNIST/MSNBC/GEORGE SOROS TOTALITARIAN vs. CONSERVATIVE/REPUBLICAN/FINANCIER/CORPORATE/INDUSTRIAL/MILITARY/RUPERT MURDOCH/FOX NEWS/RUSH LIMBAUGH TOTALITARIAN argument is complete bullshit design to fool one of you idiots on either side of the argument to look for and blame the boogy-man on the other side as the problem when it is the elites on both sides who want to chain you to their special brand of totalitarianism.
Global warming is bullshit. However, the immediate destruction of the land from mountain top clearing of coal and from the digging up of tar sands to simply buy us a little more time before the inevitable collapse of the industrial prosperity illusion is not. It is verifiable, measurable and repeatable. It meets all the requirements of the scientific method. You do know what that is ......right?
Oh....as far as laughing your ass off about seeing me at a Rig Fab Yard or a Drilling site...yeah....might be a bit tough on the old body at this point....but it still didn't stop me from trying to apply for one up in North Dakota during the Panic of 2008 when the company I was working for went out of business and I lost everything and was literally living in a pop-up camper in the woods with my wife and 5 kids until I found employment again and am living on a farm of my own making.
But I do get a bit sweaty doing this around the world for the PGA and ATP similar to this....
http://www.triptutor.com/system/images/Bigalsbeaverton345988954345_1.jpg
and this.....http://www.leddisplays.ie/data/images/outdoor_truss_led.jpg
sometimes driving this....
http://www.arpielleequipment.com/productImages/lull944e.jpg
but first driving this cross country with all the truss and LED cubes to build out.,....
http://www.articulatedtruck.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Semi-truck1.jpg
So....yeah...not as MANLY as working on a Rig Fab Yard or Drilling Site as I'm sure you have......because...after all.....(snicker) with such manly talk of sterilization for the poor and other Darwinistic love speech from you (chuckle) I'm sure you eat 10 penny nails for breakfast and shit out barb wire by evening to run fence on the back 40 by dawn the next day.....(ROTFLMAO !!!!!)
Quoting Jumbotron:
I also apologize for bumfuzzling your pathetic Rupert Murdoch/Fox News mind by using some speech that might seem liberal yet telling you truthfully my conservative bonafides from an early age. You see....I finally awoke from the Matrix and realize that the whole GREEN/SOCIALIST/COMUNIST/MSNBC/GEORGE SOROS TOTALITARIAN vs. CONSERVATIVE/REPUBLICAN/FINANCIER/CORPORATE/INDUSTRIAL/MILITARY/RUPERT MURDOCH/FOX NEWS/RUSH LIMBAUGH TOTALITARIAN argument is complete bullshit design to fool one of you idiots on either side of the argument to look for and blame the boogy-man on the other side as the problem when it is the elites on both sides who want to chain you to their special brand of totalitarianism.
This is the most intelligent post I've read in this thread today. You nailed the false left/right paradigm very well. Kudos.
Thanks.
It just took losing everything, becoming practically homeless, and staring into the abyss with a stark choice before me....either pull the trigger of the gun that was once on my head or have faith, love my family and find out what the hell was going on and what...if anything....was left worth believing in.
ZeroHedge has been a major...MAJOR part in allowing me to escape the Matrix, refocus my mind so I can concentrate more on doing the things that will really alllow me to take care of my family in these deteriorating times and quite honestly....helping me to put the hammer down and holster my gun....and if need be....choose a differnet target than my own head.
shale is even worse.
What Canada has here...let me educate you all...is the ability to move into Swing Producer Status which puts them in the big table. KSA is in decline as is the world at large. Canada's ability to move sands will be the throttle on the steepness of the decline.
Actually the reason why Kyoto was signed was the former PM of Canada, dishonorable Cretin err Chretien, was angling for a job at the UN. Bush subsequently stomped on his nomination but Canadians were stuck with the bill.
China, being presumably on board this idiocy about CO2, even though they are by far one of the world's worst polluters, is really saying to the world:
Hey, if you idiots want to destroy your economies over false science on CO2 emmisions, go for it; meanwhile we are exempt.
Carbon footprints are going to grow. A simple fact. 1.3 billion Chinese, 1.2 billion Indians, a couple of billion elsewhere in emerging economies. Economic growth demands energy. Solar and batteries are not ready for prime time.
If the AGW crowd is correct (I am skeptical of their orders of magnitude) the only practical and logical response is to work on adapting. All of the current efforts are miniscule relative to future consumption levels and will reduce living standards (with higher global poverty levels) far more than they will in any way assist in preventing climate change.
Wow, I read the first few posts and thought I was on some other site. Lets poison everything for a profit crowd are here today. The methane release from the lack of icepack isn't enough for you. If enough folks think like you we don't have that many years left, so why worry? Did you cats and kittens take stupid pills this morning?
Hubris.
This planet has climate. The climate changes. The earth's temperature fluctuates. The earth adapts. Maybe we die off, maybe we don't.
But to think that somehow, we are more important, in the overall scheme of things, than dinosaurs or dodos is the height of hubris.
We know for a fact that much of the world was covered by ice not long ago, and that dinosaurs roamed the equatorial forest of Siberia in the past. We know that much of the desert southwest was submerged at one time.
We know this and yet we insist that humans can somehow control climate. Shit we can't even control something truely man made like the ecomomy, and here we think somehow we have control over climate.
Come on man!
so what's your point exactly? That human civilization doesn't matter? That which you put into the atmosphere doesn't matter? Sounds like nihlism to me. It is exactly the opposite of your statement, hubris is that humans thought they could have their cake and eat it too.
You sound like you're trying to invoke the spirit of george carlin with your statement, but unsuccessfully.
what other species can mine out half of the most carbon dense energy source that took hundreds of millions of years and burn it into the atmosphere in one hundred? What other species can leave the orbit of the earth? Your logic needs work.
Simple.
The same crooks that brought you subprime mortgages and toxic assets have constructed a scheme where cash can be extracted from industrial nations to flow into a FUND.
Where exactly was that money going anyway that Canada was supposed to have paid?
It's all about the money, money, money.. it's all about the money, money, money...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxX-QOV9tI
Exactly so... hence the reason why the greenies are so bitter. Their gravy train on buscuit wheels is disappearing faster than a snow flake on mercury. Further, what is the value of a climatologist other than as an abject lesson on why lying, faking data and manufacturing conclusions is poison to one reputation and appearance of scientific integrity .
Kudos to the Harper government for standing against totalitarianism this time. The global warming hoax is on its last legs but TPTB will not give up without a fight on this, the green religion being as effective as the debt religion to maintain and accumulate power over the masses.
If the Harper gov can stand up against the watermelons, perhaps, only perhaps, they can stand up against the banks when they go bankrupt.
Not much hope here though. Just a fool's hope.
If you think Harper is anything but a globalist in the bankers' pockets, then your re-education is complete.
If you think Harper is anything but a globalist in the bankers' pockets, then your re-education is complete.
*********
Yep and why ever they backed out of Kyoto (which i agree with) but in the end it will be beneficial for Globalist largess-
Hmm, let's see. On one side I have the scientific community that through scientific method assessed facts and as far as the science knows AGW is very probable to be real. On the other side I have hoaxes, conspiracies, globalists, accusations of green religion, accusations of global communists by soup-sickle-watchers that be, etc...
Hmm, hard choice. Science on one side, chicaneries on the other... I wonder which is the religious belief here...
On the contrary, Climategate proved that the "science" was a fraud, with original data withheld from peer review because it had been so bastardized as to not be representative of any reality.
The AGW religion of Al Gore and David Suzuki just will not give up, they have done more damage to science through lies and manipulation than even Sociology and Economics.
Climategate was no such thing....
Here is your real climategate
http://www.desmogblog.com/skeptics-prefer-pal-review-over-peer-review-chris-de-freitas-pat-michaels-and-their-pals-1997-2003
Sorry Faggymeister, but Climategate revealed to anyone with half a brain that AGW was a political movement masquerading as science. Lie all you want, your spinning cannot change what Climategate showed the world. In fact, it was the original emails that finally convinced me that AGW was a scam to steal our money and transfer it to a small group of insiders.
Sorry rusky, but Climategate and its very selective release only ended up proving the prowess of Ruppert Murdoch. While the serfs where gobsmacked by a few quotes from some emails, Ruppert kept on hacking for political purposes even the virgin Mary. Nobody seems to question the small Climategate release when compared for example with the troves of documents Wikileaks releases. Nobody seems to care also that Scotland Yard hired a Murdoch Man when investigating "Climategate".... hmmm... no conspiracy there for sure. Guess it's always the NWO except when there's Murdoch...
I see you have never read the emails. Sorry Bro, you can spin away all you want but the damage to support for AGW is permanent. The scientists, by their own words, hung themselves out to dry. Murdock has nothing to do with and your commentary is another red herring talking point designed to distract. Doesn't work with me, and neither with the vast majority of ZH members.
nice post, well said
The scientific community, or a small group of greenies masquerading as scientists circle jerking each others reviews? AGW is not proven, full stop. Until then, why would we spend Trillions on a non existent problem?
Anyways, your views are as worthless as the AGW science. The general public no longer cares and the day in the Sun for AGW has passed. But be of good cheer, a new scam/religion is already on the way to replace it.
Hmm, so scientists are greenies... that awfully sounds a lot like those times when scientists were heretics...
So it's not a debate about science, but about the personalities of the scientists... that's very scientific of you...
Even if the debate was political... IIRC the only major political party to deny AGW as a whole are the republicans... Hm, the Republicans the only defenders of freedom in the whole wide world... doesn't that sound weird to anybody I guess...
Non existing problem... except for facts like record temperatures during a low solar cicle... like the fact of the increasing concentration in the atmosphere of gases like CO2 or methane... hmm, but it's not about the facts, is it? It's all about how greeny those scientists really are. Amen brother, very religious views you have.
ACh you are just rehashing the same old crap. Record tempertures, compared to what? Increasing amounts of CO2, compared to what?
I do not give a rats ass what the republicans have to say about AGW. And if what you said was true, why are record numbers of lberals opposed to carbon taxes. Care to guess why?
Anyways, this time next year, I expect even less debate since AGW is no longer fashionable or cool with the Hollywood set.
More americans believe in haunted houses than AGW. Good luck with the rest of your life.
Kudos to the Harper government for standing against totalitarianism this time.
What a fool. What makes the debt religion grow and accumulate power.....its the oil industry (in this case the tar sand industry in Canada) for it feeds the Fascist Totalitarian Industrial/Finacier global uber-state.
You are going to have totalitarianism no matter what. It will come from the Greens/Socialists/Communists or from the Conservative/Capitalist/Financier/Industrialists.
Meet the new boss.
Same as the old boss.
I don't believe global warming is a hoax, but I don't believe anything should be done about it. Might as well burn all we can in one last hurrah.
Kudos to Canada.
Russia approved Canada's move also, good job Canada!
Canada has the second largest CO2 'sink' forests in the World. Per Capita Canadians consume more CO2 than just about anybody. Hey World, ever heard of birth control?
In all fairness. Canada has one of the coldest winters and harshest climates on the planet and people STILL LIVE THERE.
Obviously they consumer more CO2 than the people in the jungle.
The hot news in the climate world is the seisure of a climate skeptics computers in the UK at the request of the US Dept of Justice:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/12/14/uk-police-seize-computers-of-skept...
Fed skeptics are next.
heh Mumbotron, you could always turn off your computer
if you have such an issue with the source of the energy or
the people that help facilitate the delivery
heh Mumbotron, you could always turn off your computer
if you have such an issue with the source of the energy or
the people that help facilitate the delivery
What...and deprive myself of such ass-hattery as yours....**Chuckle**....not on your life.
I've got no problem with the source of energy and the people who provide.....just hypocrites such as the Canadians who touted for years about the environemnt (which is a valid concern regardless of how we go about it....we can argue about that) including the Kyoto Agreement (which the merits can be argued over...I'm ok with that) and then when the money comes rolling in from tar sands which helps feed their banking system which has and is now feeding the same delusion to the Cannucks as we have been fed in America that we can grow this delusion of wealth and prosperity in perpetuity and suddenly they are running away from Kyoto......that's hypocrisy my friend and that's what I am railing against.
As I told another poster above.....thanks for playing "THE ASS IN ASSUME STANDS FOR ME GAME" Come back soon and play again.
the conservative government, whose base in in oil country, recently won a majority in the last federal election with just 39% of the popular vote. They've been anti Kyoto for many years. They also canceled many of the initiatives that were set up over 10 years ago.
check this out; methane release is accellerating @__@
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/shock-as-retreat...
of course the NWO wanted to profit from it, and politicians made a mess and thus fucked up the chance to deal with this from a neutral POV, BUT IT IS HAPPENING, FOR WHATEVER REASON.
Really good take on why Canada pulled out in the form of a Reddit comment:
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/na426/canada_becomes_first_nation_to_pull_out_of_kyoto/c37kvlw
It's a bit more subtle than just the dollar value of the oil sands.
Canada was supposed to get penalized for the exploration and production of oil & gas and other resources that the world needs to survive. Basically that in a nutshell.
Goldman Sachs not getting a bonus on THAT trade. Love it!
perhaps Canada's answer to the people pulling the Moody's strings-
Moody's Turns To Canada: Ontario Outlook Revised To Negative, "Softening Economic Outlook" Cited
Why pay the protection $ if there gonna burn your bldg down anyway
As long as the market price exceeds the cost of extraction, oil is going to be pulled out of the ground and sold to someone. The Kyoto treaty was an exercise in futility because any consumption cuts made by developed countries will be more than offset by increased usage in developing countries.
The only thing that could prevent all this oil from being used would be introduction of a new form of energy that costs less than oil.
In a nutshell, you nailed it.
So there's no chance at stuffs like energy conservation, more mileage for cars and stuff, just because oil isn't expensive enough? Nevermind the whole gamma of subsidies given to the oil industry... So we're just slaves of the price and the market? Nothing more than serfs for masters made of numbers? I think that's not so.
China's population: 1.3B. India's population: 1.2B. Indonesia: 239M. Brazil: 195M. And there are billions more in smaller developing economies in Eastern Europe, South America, Africa, etc.
US population: 307M. If the world only consisted of the US, Japan, and Western Europe, then perhaps conservation might help. But even then, it would only delay the inevitable. It might take 150 years to burn all the oil rather than 75. Sorry, but all that oil is going to be consumed unless someone finds a cheaper alternative. Simple mathematics decrees it.
Your problem is that you are innumerate.
Well, it's not like the US has a good conservation track record. What makes you think that only if it was just about the US and its "friends", it would be possible.
I may be innumerate but I guess I'm not illiterate. Because even with those numbers, if we don't even try to conserve or anything, the situation will only grow exponentially worse. More people, all doing whatever they want and burning as much as they can get their hands on... and that is logical. Like we're so single-faceted as a species... a biological machine whose only end is to burn that mofukkin oil... And like no alternative, or at least a reduction is possible.
the whole of modern society and the majority of the population on this world are dependant and were created on the back of petroleum...there is no denying that, it is self evident.
It's lovely how all these English speaking countries denounce Kyoto because it gives free pass to India or China. They never stop to think that most of the greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere stay there for decades, and most of them were put there by these same countries who now cry foul. It's almost as if these countries just can't compete without subventions from the rest of the world.
It is lovely how these German speaking people accept their media outlets and political leader's statements at face value and do not think for themselves.
The nature of the political and bureaucratic processes is to exaggerate "problems" that ensure future funding. The nature of journalists is to lean left and support environmental claims without regard to economic consequences.
Climate studies are funded by environmental departments. No environmental agency is going to fund a study that does not conclude CO2 is evil. Very few reporters are going to report on studies that run couter to the climate change mantra.
I should start by saying I'm a latin american by birth and residence. I'm not german, and haven't spoken german in over 15 years...
Second. Climate studies are funded by universities too. The idea that it's all a hoax of some money hungry climatologists is ridiculous beyond reason. It's like forgetting that the real money hungry oil executives, your daily Koch brothers, are much more mean and have been engaged in deception over and over. But you still accuse climatologists... oh, because you percieve them to be "leftists"... That's REAL SCIENCE man! Keep it up... who's the serf now?
I can't believe Canada would do this the waters are going to rise and flood out al gores beach he just purchased a year ago ;(
I wonder if all those who claim to be critical thinkers and anti-propoganda wizards realize that the fight to discredit the global warming theory is entirely bought and paid for, by the same bastards that bought and paid for your government. Use all the crooked thinking you like, the simple fact is that homo sapiens sapiens in entering uncharted territory in regards to climate. If you truly care about your family you'll look to the facts yourself and not allow the twisted logic of others to cloud your vision.
That being said I appreciate the differing opinions on this website and the free thought which is so rare;y allowable in posting section.
The conservative government in canada has always bent over and took it up the ass for the american government, kyoto is no different- see avro arrow and the brain drain loss to NASA after the program was scrapped and all blueprints and prototypes destroyed. See free trade circa 1980's. The liberals aren't much better. The ndp is in lala land.
Global warming is anceint history; it's all about profits and money now.