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Guest Post: The Taxpayer Funded PR Campaign For Obamacare Begins

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by James E. Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada,

 

Only in public schools and universities is the fairy tale still taught that governments are representative of the people.  The blue collared man on the street realizes the chips are stacked against him.  For those who don’t have political connections, the pseudo fascist system that is still referred to as “capitalism” in the U.S. is akin to a casino game of chance.  That is, the odds are always in the house’s favor.  The house is the federal leviathan and its equivalent at the state and local level as well as the big, cartelized industries which feed off government protection.  As comedian George Carlin accurately observed:

It’s a big club and you ain’t in it!

Even the catalyst for the American Revolution, the Boston Tea Party, was not a grand political statement on the unjustifiable nature of taxation without representation.  At the time, founding father John Hancock was the richest smuggler in North America.  The British Parliament lowered the import tax on tea in 1773 which cut into Hancock’s profits.  According to economic historian Gary North:

The Tea Party had stopped the unloading of the tea by throwing privately owned tea off a privately owned ship – a ship in competition with Hancock’s ships. The Boston Tea Party was in fact a well-organized protest against lower prices stemming from lower taxes.

The state, by virtue of its monopoly on predation, has always functioned as a power center to be exploited by the elite few.  Politicians deceive their way to public office by promising voters the world while pocketing the campaign funds to do the bidding of their corporate masters.  For all his populist rhetoric, President Obama was bankrolled into office by Wall Street; namely Goldman Sachs.  This is why no top financial executives have been charged for fraud stemming from the housing bubble.  It’s the same reason he backed the granting of immunity to telecommunication companies for illegally aiding Washington in warrant-less domestic wiretapping of private communications. Obama travels the country on the taxpayer’s dime to convince Americans he is still the fighter for the middle class.  The more gullible of voters will believe the lie time and time again despite his administration being staffed by Wall Street alum.  They are infatuated with the idea of being part of something meaningful.  This naivety en masse is the true aim of the state.  It ensures for the least amount of objection and more opportunity for exploitation by the establishment.

The President’s “universal health care” scheme is yet another example of the incestual relationship between big government and big business.

In what can only be described as a modern day case of Orwellian irony, the Health and Human Services Department has awarded a $20 million contract to public relations firm Porter Novelli to begin promoting the Affordable Care Act.  From The Hill newspaper:

The Health and Human Services Department has signed a $20 million contract with a public-relations firm to highlight part of the Affordable Care Act.

 

The new, multimedia ad campaign is designed to educate the public about how to stay healthy and prevent illnesses, an HHS official said.

 

The campaign was mandated by the Affordable Care Act and must describe the importance of prevention while also explaining preventive benefits provided by the healthcare law. The law makes many preventive services available without a co-pay or deductible, and provides new preventive benefits to Medicare patients.

To sum up this disconnect between reality and fantasy: the myth goes that government is beholden to the people.  Elected representatives only ever act in the best interest of their constituents.  This is why Congress enacted a health care reform bill that was opposed by a majority of the American public.  But of course the reform was for their own good.  The public wasn’t allowed to know the final ramifications of Obamacare before it was passed.  The truth is never meant for the little people.  That’s why then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi declared “we have to pass the bill so that you can…find out what is in it.”  In other words, “obey us unconditionally.”

Again, this whole affair was supposedly done in the public’s interest.  Average Joe just doesn’t understand what is good for him.  How dare he question the intention of his political leaders!

Now a promotional campaign must be undertaken to convince the people that this new frontier in health care is a great step forward to more affordability.  Taxpayers only have to pick up the $20 million tab to be told about the good their government delivers to them.

What the ad campaign won’t reveal is that the Affordable Care Act was never the product of well-meaning souls but was crafted exclusively by the health industry itself.  The bill is virtually identical to a plan outlined by the trade association American’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) in 2009.  A former Vice President to Wellpoint Inc. was revealed to have written the original bill in 2009.  Stocks of health care companies actually shot up as the bill made its way through Congress.  The reasoning was quite simple since the bill acts as a huge subsidy to the industry.  With millions poised to be forced into buying insurance, Howard Dean was dead on when he called the bill “an insurance company’s dream.”

Like compulsory vaccinations, the individual mandate is nothing but an industry bailout.  Under the guise of protecting the right of citizens, government merely acts as a puppet of entrenched special interests.  Politicians and bureaucrats further advance their dream of centrally managing more of the economy while simultaneously appeasing big business.  Competition is inhibited with regulatory red tape as the big players continue to rake in income and market share.  The state looks out for itself and its financiers only.

With Obamacare, the middle class will end up being liable for yet another entitlement program that, like any other government initiative, will cost more than was initially estimated.  Worse yet, they will be bombarded with advertisements they paid for which attempt to convince them that Uncle Sam has once again delivered prosperity with a badge and a gun.

The disheartening part is some Americans will be foolish enough to actually believe it.

 


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Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:28 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

From now on I will be deciding what is for my own good.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Dear Infinity
Dear Infinity's picture

National deficit = joke.. can we talk about unfunded liabilities

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:55 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Let's talk. Albeit the 60-120 Trillion of U.S. debt alone, will get vaporized long before we have a say in things! /sarc

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:12 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

China also has union reps to represent factory slaves.

But when there is only one union rep, fascists can easily control it not to represent anything.

 

 

Schooling are good for one thing only.....developing critical thinking...starting with bullshit and lies.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:18 | Link to Comment JeffB
JeffB's picture

The government has full control of the schools as well.

They can and do begin the indoctrination early. At least in some of the schools.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:37 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

The problem in this country is that too many people are looking for handouts. I agree with the signs that say, “Share my father’s work ethic — not his paycheck.” We have to do something about the whole welfare mentality in this country. Tea Party Protester Valerie Shirk

Early yesterday morning, Valerie and Rob Shirk corralled their 10 home-schooled children into their van for the 2 1/2-hour drive from their home in Connecticut to Boston, arriving just in time to hear Sarah Palin denounce government-run health care at the tea party movement rally on Boston Common.

.......

The couple, who rely on Medicaid for their health care, were also upset about the nation’s new health reforms.

When asked why her family used state-subsidized health care when she criticized people who take handouts, Valerie Shirk said she did not want to stop having children, and that her husband’s income was not enough to cover the family with private insurance.

“I know there’s a dichotomy because of what we get from the state,’’ she said. “But I just look at each of my children as a blessing.’’

 

.......

romney, obama, clinton, or even bush......i think it is time for some cleansing of the stupids.....get rid of tea party idiots and US deficit  will decrease.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:04 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

First they make you sick. 

Then they give a drug that makes you think and feel you are not sick anymore.

So you get sicker.

They give you more "Drugs", so you feel.... sicker, yet better.

That is till your hair start to fall out. 

Then they tell you you have to come in. 

200 tests later, you're an inmate for life.

Chemically altered forever, ever sensitive to fluctating "test" results that are always off the "accepted" levels, you are now officially a slave to the medical system.

Every twinge, every little stab of pain, signals, the miraculous cycle of the body to take itself from dis-ease to ease, the sheer importance of the environmental factors that led to said dis-ease in the first place....lost.

The word pill-oried comes to mind.

German Chemistry folks, good german chemistry is all. Bustards...

ori

population-control-vectors

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:14 | Link to Comment Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

Like compulsory vaccinations, the individual mandate

Wow, so requiring vaccinations for children that group together for learning is the equivalent to a tax on individuals? If I was kind I would write that you are stretching things a bit. I am not kind: You are an idiot. Have you had any of the diseases for which one is vaccinated? Or your children? I have, and in some cases they can scar you for life. You are a lost cause.

~Surly, the Classical Liberal

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:28 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Surly Bear

ORI lives in India.

That explains it all.

The anti vaccination crowd is a bunch of assfucks anyway, as is the organic crowd, and the greed heads who think all taxes are bad instead of certain applications.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:11 | Link to Comment sskid
sskid's picture

Too bad there is not a vaccine for ignorance

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:18 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

sskid

There was. Anti vaccination stopped it.

It explains the rise of Organic food dimwits.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:24 | Link to Comment longdong silver
longdong silver's picture

the chemical make up of vaccines of the past has changed.

the mas culling of the worlds population is in full effect at this time. They are trying hard to kill you.

perhaps you should do more homework regarding the world we "live" in tiday.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:32 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Word on the pointless pound of 'cure'* and the eschewed ounce of 'prevention'.

Welcome to the Stockade Market.

* Warning: This 'cure' for mild upset tummy from Chipotle may lead to:

- Giant Boners

- Thicker eyelashes

- Permanently altered site-specificity

- Explosive diarrhea

- An unsafe drop in blood pressure

- Painful rectal itch

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:33 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Stockade Market. Nice one Gm!

Classic and scary.

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:12 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Really- Giant Boners?  I can deal with the rest

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:20 | Link to Comment drunkenlout
drunkenlout's picture

 

"I think it's time for some cleansing of the stupids."  Yep, yahsure, yew betcha.  It would be logical, just, satisfying, and right to get rid of stupid people.  

However, we would progress more if we got rid of some smart people -- Congress Critters, UN staff, Whitehouse staff, major bankers, lobbyists, etc.  When we inveigh against the stupids, we should make intelligent choices.  The problem is not the idiot candidates  -- we will never see anything else.  The problem is the idiot people who do not recognize their continuing disenfranchisement by all the candidates.  

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:01 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Don't recall who originally said it, but when you stop and think about it, Congress is the opposite of progress.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:57 | Link to Comment MuppetMaster
MuppetMaster's picture

LOL no.  The problem with the world is a blatant lack of brainpower.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:59 | Link to Comment bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

....or just a blantant lack of individual respect.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 04:03 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"she did not want to stop having children"

WTF!?! ... Does she think the planet is running out of mouths to feed (with other people's money)?!?

She should be neutered before she floods the streets with more welfare queens....

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:16 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Aldous use that mile wide brush on some liberals too in the name of fairness..

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:40 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The thread explores spending power. You Gentlemen bring MUCH MORE important figures to light.  I got lost , and both of you righted my path!

  Opportunity is about creating a "Wealth Effect".  The definition of that idea is open to interpretation.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:43 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

The mere fact of sending your kid to public school means you trust the government to teach your child more than you trust yourself.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

That my friend , is a loaded question. We, both know that answer...

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:02 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

when you send your kids to public school, you teach the kid why democracy won't ever work because majority of people are idiots.

 

private schools aren't much better, especially the religious ones.

 

best school is real life.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:38 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

DW Dollar, the mere fact that you ask that " dis-combobulated" question makes me wonder if you are a " Union Member"/?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:54 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

It took the United States from 1776 to Oct 22, 1981 to accumulate $1 trillion in debt.  Now we add $1 trillion in debt and unfunded liabilities every 54.6 days or $8.21 trillion a year ($1.53 in debt and $6.68 in unfunded liabilities). US debt now stands at $15,747 trillion and unfunded liabilities at $119.029 trillion.

US student debt hit $1 trillion on April 25, 2012.  

This cannot be sustained. But without all the excess debt-fueled spending, the economy would be in a depression.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:58 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

US citizen way of life and conceptions are unsustainable, debt or not.

The lavish use of debt only meant that US citizens hit the bar sooner.

Without debt, they hit the bar too. And way before the Sun dies out.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:03 | Link to Comment JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

US debt now is $15.747 trillion. Created a duplicate post while trying to fix that.  Sorry.

Actually if we had accurate numbers for inflation, we would be in a recession now.  But if you manipulate inflation numbers lower by say 3%, you raise growth by 3%.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:13 | Link to Comment Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Otherwise known as nigganomics!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:18 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

A Lunatic

Good luck with that.

You gonna run around naked and live in a cave?

How else you plan to escape TPTB?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Online I found a list of "bad words" which red flag emails, texts, etc. by the authorities. I thought to myself " most people are too afraid to ever rise up against the man, but perhaps there is some passive-aggressive action that most people could be bothered to do, and could keep the g-men busy/overloaded". This list of words should be spread to everyone, and attached at the end of every message we all write online, during chat, emails, etc. Please take this list, and pass it along to everyone you know. Thanks and vaya con Dios. Here is where to find the list: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2150281/REVEALED-Hundreds-words-...

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:45 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

What a pile of shit.

Thousands and thousands of pages of billions and billions of $'s of giveaways to big pharma, insurance companies, political pork, hell, every pseudo medical entity there is...

Meanwhile a simple 3 page medicade for all bill can't get a vote.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:20 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

Buddy, you don't want Medicaid for All.  In fact it terrifies me that a ZH reader would even think Medicaid for All would be a good idea.  Jesus.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:50 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

And I've never seen a ZH reader so easily terrified. What are you going to do when the really terrifying stuff starts, give up?

I'm simply saying the only reason to force this heeping pile of shit on the taxpayer is to get another trillion or so into the healthcare industries coffers. If they are going to force socialized medicine on us, cut out the trillion dollar middle man and pass the three page bill.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:08 | Link to Comment bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

A good start would be to 'stop passing shit....'

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:02 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Agreed.

Unfortunately, that's all Congress is capable of passing. Everything must be packed with billions of $'s of pork or poison pill rhetoric.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:21 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

How about I handle my own health care without Giovernment distortion of the market for my "own good"...  Pelosi can do your exams..

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

Agreed.

Lets get rid of health insurance, medicare, medicaid, all of it.

Cash on the barrel head at the doctors office.

Like that will ever happen, short of a complete meltdown. In the meantime, stop diggin, err, throwing good money after bad.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:21 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

top 1% can get private practice doctors of their choice.

old geesers get medicare

poor dumbfucks get medicaid

politicians, police, soldiers, government workers all get good healthcare

even illegal aliens get free healthcare they don't pay for with state programs.

 

It is the middle class workers and professionals pay expensive private healthcare to cover everyone else

 

Multinational corps don't want you to get basic healthcare so they can keep you down. If you had healthcare you can take more risk by starting your own business to compete with status quo.

 

Healthcare is paid for by your ancestors hard work (increase in productivity through blood and sweat) which republicans wasted on stupid wars. Make the rich pay for their own wars and get what you deserve

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:26 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

The masses would get a nurse with an SAT of 900 from an online degree mill (like the University of Phoenix Nurse Practitioner Program) to play doctor.   That's the ultimate plan from Obamacare. 

The rich and the unions will still get their American trained MDs.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:44 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

you drive a car built by factory labor who also scored SAT of 900 and work at auto factories....

what does SAT has to do with a job performance where you do things pretty much by the book?

Doctors and nurses don't invent cures....$80k/year biomed phDs do.

Doctors are just HUMAN MECHANICS. You already trust your life behind a wheel serviced by some illegal alien mechanic working for $10/hour.  You have been brainwashed by AMA to believe that you have to be smart to be a doctor/nurse. When it is one of the oldest occupations.....what industry have INCREASING LABOR COSTS over time?

 

can you explain why medical schools only accept top 1%? why not top 2%? easily double the number of doctors?

 

It is the medical service cartel where they lobby the government to restrict competition which contributes to cost of healthcare.

 

vets, medicare, medicaid, all get government healthcare. they are being treated by stupid nurses? obamacare is not outlawing private practice.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

Human Mechanics?  You're a Grade A idiot.  The vast majority of medical cures in the 20th century including penicilin and leukemia cures were invented by medical doctors.  Much of the US medical education is geared towards medical research.  Most academic physicians (you know the Big Name doctors at Big Name hospitals) make barely over $120k a year and work 60 hrs a week after a decade and half of education and training.  Even private practice surgeons barely break $300k and they have all the risks of maintaining a small business and malpractice liability.   Residency training for all physicians is brutal and lasts from 3 to 7 years plus fellowship working 80 hrs a week for $40k a year.  Medicine is hard with lots of uncertainty and requires lots of scientific reasoning.  Only a Communist bastard would begrudge a doctor's low six-figure salary and think just anyone including an idiot with an SAT of 900 can become a doctor.  

It's ignorant people like you that make this country an overly bureaucratized Third World shithole where hard work means nothing, and everyone wants the perks and benefits without the responsibility and effort.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:14 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

yes MD PhD are the ones who are actually curing anything, but they are not the cause of healthcare SERVICES cost increase..

 

regarding residency....every career has a period where YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR DUES. And they have brutal work weeks at $40k a year because TAXES ARE PAYING FOR THEIR TRAINING because despite all of their years of medical school, they are worthless just like 1 year ibankers and lawyers. Let the hospitals and medical community pay for new doctor training themselves and let's see the profit margin on medical practice.

 

only a communist bastards would be protecting doctor's monopoly power in prescribing medicine.

 

Third World shitholes have better doctors than some I've seen who have entitlement mentality. 90% of doctors do the same shit doctors elsewhere. only the top 1% of doctors are special enough for Arabian royals to visit. Plus America is no more healthier than countries with lower doctor pay.

 

You still haven't justified any reason for doctor's salaries nor education requirement....that's because it is setup by government to subsidize doctors to get high enough income that they don't cheat and chop off the wrong leg just for more money. But these days  you have medical schools putting heavy debt burden and unnecessary difficulty in entrance exams, which produces doctors with entitlement mentality.

 

Bring in more Chinese and Indians, and reward doctors to go into RESEARCH to find procedures/ cures which anyone can use rather than into SERVICE which is always limited.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:25 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

MD/PhD is a recent degree.  We've had MDs who did medical research for a hundred and fifty years.  Who did you think turned anesthesia from 1/20 mortality rate to 1/20000?  Armchair experts like you?  Nancy Pelosi? 

We have plenty of Indian doctors in the US, you moron.  Over 25% of doctors practicing in the US are foreign grads.  You little shitbag seem to think everyone else is overpaid except for yourself.  How about I outsource your job first? 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:07 | Link to Comment vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

thx guinea. fuck obama, support doctors and if any profession should get properly compensated it's the MD's. Hell we could even pay teachers more, but MD's put in some of the most serious dues and literally save lives...........did i mention FUCK OBAMA? how bout FUCK BOTH DEMS AND REPUBS? 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:24 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Really?

So where are all of these state of the art procedures, equipment and drugs from China and India?

Why does the US have the highest survival rates for the most common forms of cancer?

Why does the US bring more premies into the world than any other civilization?

Why was medicine largely a combo between voodoo and witchcraft until the US turned it into a real science?

It is all so confusing.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:38 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Yo dimbulb, it's because every living head on the continental 50 and the colonies are a credit in the UCC ledger.

It's really quite simple.

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:13 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

It's been that way for 120yrs nitwit.

or long before your little incorrect as usual platitude.

But thanks for playing. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:17 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

What has been which way for 120 years? UCC? Keeping people alive just because? Hospitals filled with cadavers on life support? Preemies with no hope of a decent life being kept alive in incubators? Just so they can be lifelong patients?

What?

You're just an establishment clown. 

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:56 | Link to Comment CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Just ask'n....What/when was the last cure for anything? I agree doctors are underpaid, when compared to a lot of other professions. However the Medical field seems to be stuck, in the way of new cures. Feels like doctor's are mechanics sometimes, I guess it really depends on your personal GP. I have to say it feels like a lot less value for that 17% of GDP.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:21 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

.man took penicillin for 100yrs for almost everything until these super anti biotics like cypro, augmentin et al appeared with the advent of the bio technology industry.

Does AIDS count? Although it is not cured it was a certain death sentence not that long ago.

Not even just cures, it is procedures, consider a typical gall bladder removal 30yrs ago involved significant surgery, days of discomfort and recovery and higher risk of infection vs now where is it largely none of the above.  Or the testing, man is not sicker than ever despite reports to the contrary, the tests are better than ever which leads to earlier care and higher success rates.

Starving medical R&D funding is devolution personified and largely what happens with nationalized care. R&D money is taken from the leading edge to try and maintain the status quo.

The inevitable problem with these threads is two fold,

insurance was supposed to be for catastrophic loss only,

and something like 90% of the avg American's health costs are incurred in the last 9 months of their lives.

So the notion that the everyday doctor is in some way, shape or form responsible is ludicrous to begin with. They bear responsibility for some piddly amount of any avg Americans total healthcare bill even though they are largely the first line of defense.

Further 90% of the US population has insurance of which something like 85% are content with their plan. Obamacare creates 160 federal agencies so 5% more will have insurance.  While the insureds already pay for the uninsureds via higher costs, now same will happen except the government will take a cut.  It is ludicrous beyond belief to expect that to result in superior, more accessable or more affordable care, it almost by default has to result in the opposite.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Xkwisetly Paneful

".man took penicillin for 100yrs"

The fuck you say

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penicillin

The discovery of penicillin is attributed to Scottish scientist and Nobel laureate Alexander Fleming in 1928

I find it relly ironic that in a topic mainly regarding stupid people, that someone gets the History substantially wrong and considers themselves intelligent.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

Dat becuz da truf don't mattah none no moh.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:07 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    Why does the US have the highest survival rates for the most common forms of cancer?

    Why does the US bring more premies into the world than any other civilization?

Because US government's been subsidizing both R&D and distribution for (conservatively) 50 years.

It's a rich country, we poured enormous boatloads of tax money into the medical industry. 

We bought an enormous amount of "progress."

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:30 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

By the way, the villification of the gp is no better than the villification of farmers.

remember? how dare they pay them to NOT farm even though they haven't done that in 30yrs and the family farmer is headed the way of extinction but they are the villains.

It is no different here.

 could not be further off base if that was the plan.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:20 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

AldousHuxley

"yes MD PhD are the ones who are actually curing anything"

What fucking alternate reality do you live in where anything has been cured since the Salk vaccine?

Modern medicine is all about MANAGEMENT not CURE!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Wrong GullyDouchebagfoil.

Cure is for keeping dead meat edible.

you are looking for the word "heal".

Modern medicine is ALL ABOUT THE CURE. Run for the cure, run for the cure.

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:28 | Link to Comment Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

There is far far far far far less profit in a CURE than there is in MANAGEMENT.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:05 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

They are currently paying something like $86 for the most commonly coded office visit,

any idea how many patients a normal GP has to see a day to breakeven at $86 a shot?

have successfully turned primary care into McCare by screwing the general practitioners through anti competitive state health insurance cartels and by paying bottom dollar for the most common bills.

which has led the best and brighest to pursue lab careers and not become attending physicians.

and has led an exodus out of smaller offices to being on hospital payrolls.

To the detriment of the entire human race.

Keep up the good work.

The entire problem is that insurance was designed to prevent catastrophic loss not become a tool for the government and insurance industry to profit off of pushing paper.   

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:26 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

lab careerists got laid off in last batch of pharma downsizing.

even greedy CEOs don't have the same job security like a doctor. even CEO's compete globally with Chinese and Indian CEO's whose business is even mroe subsidized by their own governments.

Even banksters have to compete globally with hong king, london, paris, singapore, Tokyo, etc.

 

Doctors do not have global labor competition. and all the smart ones want the "lifestyle" specialities where they can maximize income per work. Doctors ARE government employees. Without governmen healthcare subsidies, half of people wouldn't be able to afford healthcare and doctors would price themselves out of business. Like wall st, call government supported industry for what it is and nationalize it along with scrutiny of government employee salaries. It is not capitalism. Their high salaries are not market driven when you artificially limit supply of doctors by restricting residency funding.

 

i'm all for good doctors getting compensated fairly. Right now, doctors are just like politicians....they take percentage of GDP for themselves no matter what their actual contributions are.

wall st., military, government workers, doctors, state subsidized industries are all riding on the coat tales of those who do compete globally.

 

they claim to save lives, like CEOs claim company revenue increase all on their efforts.

 

WHY DO HUMAN MECHANICS GET PAID MORE THAN VETS? same skill.  because government pays for humen mechanic services.

 

 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:32 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

doctors have lowest forms of intelligence....rote memorization.

 

economics is about supply and demand

 

nothing to do with hard you work unless you want to pay $1M to some dumbass who just dug a ditch on your yard 24hours straight.

 

 

people will still attempt to become doctors for job security alone even if incomes were lower than other jobs.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:47 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

Dude, just go away.  Peddle your filth at DKos. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:17 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

He must have never watched House. That dude was smart and earned every penny he was paid.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:39 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

No global competition? Odd since people fly here from elsewhere for care.

Hasn't changed, the FED pays something like $86/visit for the most commonly coded visit.

How many patients a day at $86 a piece does the avg GP have to see just to breakeven?

You're all the smart ones quip is 100% off base, the smart ones stopped going to medical school as the idea of becoming rich practicing medicine became laughable.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:42 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Ever heard of MEdical Tourism x?

Medical tourists come to places like India (tons of them from the US, literally, fat, waddling tons) to get even dental work.

Now if an air-ticket + the risk of a 3rd world hospital (Heaven forbid) is better then in-country care, I guess the problem is quite clear to see, ne?

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 07:57 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Way to contradict yourself in three posts.

Which is it?

India doesn't provide jackshit in innovation because there aren't enough on the medical care gravytrain even though there is a billion plus people,

or they actually get more than their share thanks  to the tune of tons of medical tourists?

WTFU already. Have resource rich countries with numerous times the population of the US that obviously need medical care and yet provide jack in the way of leading edge innovation. Somewhat similar to the oil rich middle east.  Have people, have resources, have nothing to show for it other than idiotic  platitudes and ludicrous rationalizations.

Good job.

 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:48 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

What is that innovation stuff?

You need to innovate to provide a common healthcare service?

You need to innovate to provide dental care, facial surgery and the rest?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:22 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Oh regional Indian

"literally, fat, waddling tons"

They only look fat to you because you live in a nation starving to death. Start eating the cows and it becomes very hard to tell your people from the tourists, well the nonwhite ones.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Are you honestly trying to claim that people fly from the US to India for dental work? Really?

You are batshit fucking crazy or a complete liar. Airfare alone costs as much or more than to get just about any dental procedure done.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:37 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I'm not talking about getting a cavity filled here dumbshit. Google "Medical Tourism".

Airfare, return fare is a $1,000 dollars give or take.

You've obviously done all your travelling with the Imperial Army perhaps?

lednbrass...says it all, is that your brain and balls you were speaking of?

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:44 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

So according to these delusions, one should be able to import mass medical staff internationally dirt cheap and run everyone else out of business.  kind of weird how it is pretty much the opposite as half of the math and science degrees flee the country upon graduation. It's really odd, doctors being overpaid in the US and all, why go somewhere else and be underpaid?

 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:49 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It's really odd, doctors being overpaid in the US and all, why go somewhere else and be underpaid?

_____________________________________

Because of the absence of work?

Topical avatar, in the end.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:41 | Link to Comment otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

try getting a union firefighter or cop to pay 1 penny for their healthcare-they're "heroes" so the rest of us slobs "owe" them everything

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:48 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

yup. they claim their jobs are dangerous.

 

well then why the hell their management getting even more money out of taxes with $200k/year pensions at age 50?????

 

wonder what the need is for firefighters anymore. you hear more about murders than a house catching a fire these days.

 

bring in chinese and indians to flood police academy.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

The crime has gotten so bad here in parts of DC that the firefighters have been deployed to act as policemen. They are asked to drive around with their hook and ladders, and ambulances so the community "feels their presence".

That being said I live across the street from a firehouse in the city. One night I was walking my dog and one of the firemen approached me to talk. Long story short he told me that he hasn't fought a fire in "37 days, and couldn't wait until summer for a few brushfires.".

Firemen should be a volunteer position.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:18 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

They are in many towns.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:43 | Link to Comment CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Most of Ontario, Canada is vols....only in cities, is fireman paid position, great benifits and 4 days on 4 days off for most of em.

Not an easy job, Upper management and admin costs make it a big nut to crack...9/11 sure helped expand  the budgets.

 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:12 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

The nice thing about the volunteers is they're "free."  The problem with the volunteers is that they're not responsible for anything. 

If they don't like you, your house may burn down.  If they run over your kid on the way to a fire, it's largely a matter of luck whether they can help with the medical expenses.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:24 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

otto skorzeny

You want to run into a burning building to rescue people for no bennies?

Even though I loathe the modern police attitude, they still tend to get shot quite a bit.

I think you picked the wrong two groups to whine about bennies.

You should have focused on politicians.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Damn near got killed snatching Mussolini didn't ya..  Under that set of criteria 7 Eleven clerks should make more and get better pensions as they catch much more incoming fire than cops..

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:05 | Link to Comment philipat
philipat's picture

The reason for the individual mandate is actually to stop the middle classes from thinking about alternatives. The other part of the problem is that there remains a misconception that US healthcare is the best in the world when it clearly is not. The US spends 17& of GDP on healthcare (And that;s only covering 75% of the population, which is more than double that of other developed countries which provide healthcare for the whole population and actually have better outcomes than the US (Infant mortality etc.)

Actually, the way to go for the middle classes is to self-insure via a dedicted medical savings account. You don't need healthcare cover for simple things. Self-medication using a combination of generic medicines at WalMart and, if necessary, brandname drugs purchased in Canada (At less than one third of the US cost for drugs manufactured in the US) is a practical alternative. For more serious conditions get on a plane to Thailand or Malaysia where very good healthcare is available at a fraction of US costs. There are also many Global Insurance policies which provide much better value providing the US is excluded. For obvious reasons.

 Now, back to the individual mandate.............................................

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:54 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Self-medication using a combination of generic medicines at WalMart and, if necessary, brandname drugs purchased in Canada (At less than one third of the US cost for drugs manufactured in the US) is a practical alternative.
________________________________________

You know, it is quite common for US citizens to claim that in the current situation, intelligent, educated US citizens weight quite a lot.

I wonder how many decades before the wrong prognosis, the inadequate medication leads to various strands US citizens' intelligence can not handle.

Already an issue in the making but one must say that on this one, maybe because it would jeopardize themselves too with no third recipient to push the disaster on, US citizens try not to kick the can too much.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment tsuki
tsuki's picture

Medical holidays are one of the few growing industries in the US, and if the hospital is approved, often US medical insurance will pay the full amount less air fare.  Many middle class people are outsourcing their medical care. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:58 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Those poor dumbfucks!

Shame of it is, the doctors are all largely educated via the same schools and the same curriculum.

Kind of like largely the nations teachers being educated identically from sea to sea.

Kind of like the idea that children used to have one toy and now have closets full.

Kind of like families used to maybe have one car and now have driveways full.

Kind of like considering obese folks who own  cars and homes "poverty stricken."

Promotion of the idea of material poverty which includes healthcare and education is preposterously farcical but keep on, keeping on.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:21 | Link to Comment TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Oh please. Democrats want war just as much (actually more compared to Ron Paul). And if you think the money you save on war can pay for the unfunded liabilities you got another thing coming.

 

You really need to learn the facts before you start posting your opinion.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:43 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Make the rich pay for their own wars and get what you deserve
________________________________

US citizen elite no longer need wars other than for satisfying the thirst of US citizen middle class for entitlements.

The US citizen elite have concentrated enough of the world wealth the rest is going to flow to them.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

What are you, 28 years old?  Go find out who was President everytime we go into a war and I think you will find that over 90% of the time is was a DEMOCRAT.  It took a Republican to get us out.  I can't stand their asses either, but you need to get your facts straight.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:23 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Its important to point out the places where the sheeple have made the wrong assumptions.  I just stick with the idea that both sides basically have the same agenda, just different corporate sponsors.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:37 | Link to Comment El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

ZombieCare. Where the mindless mingle for their crumbs...

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:38 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Its so hard to break through the propaganda people are exposed to through the main stream media. They have been believing so long in dem v repub they can't see that both sides are complicit in the crony capitalistic status quo.  The health care act is nothing about making health care affordable.  Its about taking care of corporate health care, insurance and, don't forget, Big Pharma.  They all get seats at the table to divide up the spoils while the sheeple pay more and more for less and less.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:54 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

You're right. It is my belief that the false left/right paradigm really is at the center of a lot of our problems. If you were to take a poll of people who would consider themselves "politically aware", 95% of those people would be the ones who either believe that Romney/Obama is our savior. The way I see it is that the MSM paints every picture to be in either black or white, when we all know that truth is usually in a shade of gray. Fuck them.

These people lack historical context. How the fuck can they not see that the president is a puppet position? The president is placed there so the vox populi have a person to blame for their woes. The system wants the people to believe that voting truly matters.

America has been on a path of FASCISM (through crony capitalism), MILITARISM ( we've waged at least 7 "military interventions" since we were actually last attacked), and EUGENICISM (by fucking with our food, water, and healthcare.)

But what do I know, I'm just a dumb construction worker

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:37 | Link to Comment jimijon
jimijon's picture

I once took a poll of my readers for a little website I have dedicated to the TradeShow industy. I asked if they considered themselves, Democrat, Republican, Tea Party, Conservative, Liberal, Libertarian and Socialist.

Surprisingly about 85% said they were Conservative. They did not select Republican.

This is another of many signs that America is waking up and will be great again.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:31 | Link to Comment toady
toady's picture

I get that all the time too.

I usually hear 'fiscally conservative, socially liberal', or the straight-out 'conservative' you mentioned.

I've heard it so much that I respond 'fiscally liberal, socially conservative ' just to get a reaction.

It backfires a lot though ... I end up talking about banning gay marriage a lot....

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:20 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Yeah, but what's "conservative" MEAN to these folks?

Most of the time I've heard that word, it's someone who means:

  -- big government enforcement of traditional social roles/mores

  AND

  -- reduced government spending/services

It's contradictory, but if you try to pin down exactly where the contradictions are, people get angry. 

Very little patience to deal with the ambivalence.  That's the real problem.  People are comforted by thinking things through to some given level, and going past that level, it becomes impossible to discuss anything rationally.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:38 | Link to Comment FleaMarketPete
FleaMarketPete's picture

"Don't you touch the healthcare I paid for!!!111"

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:39 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Any comment I post would be skewed. /Ed;

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:40 | Link to Comment tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

Yeah I just got my notice from Anthem Bluecross a few days ago informing me that my healthcare policy for my family was going up 19% effective July 17th?  Thanks alot Keynesian, I'm not interested in paying for all the illegals you attract. Who would have ever thought we all would be responsible for paying or illegals healthcare? What part of ILLEGAL DON'T YOU FUCKING UNDERSTAND?

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:51 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

You've soaked up a bit of propaganda there.  The reason health care is expensive is that corporate interests (corporate health care, insurance and Big Pharma) are sucking profits out of what should be a profitless service to the people.  Single payer with a complete overhaul of the existing provider system could make health care affordable, but the duopoly won't let it happen.  You gotta pay to play and the sheeple have no seat at the table.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:03 | Link to Comment tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

You obviously don't live in Cali and have been to an emergency room lately? The first thing they ask you is...Habla usted Inglés??

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:17 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Because of their relatively young age and generally good health, cost of health care for illegal immigrants runs half of what it runs for US citizens. You obviously don't understand where the dollars are going in health care.  The US spent $2.6 trillion on health care in 2010.  Total cost of all medicaid for illegals was about $4.3 billion.   That represents .001 of our health care expense.  I think we will have to look further than illegal immigrants if we want to reduce the cost of health care.  But don't tell FOX.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 23:23 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

True, but illegals will not stay young forever and their lack of educations means generally they will stay poor in greater numbers and cost more as they age.  They are a piece of the puzzle but of course everyone has their favorite piece of the puzzle they like to pontificate on instead of putting the whole picture together..

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 00:04 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Still won't add up to a drop in the bucket of the total health care expense.  

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:44 | Link to Comment Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Costs haven't gone up for Obamacare.  In fact the CBO has the medicare cost curve bending down since Obamacare.  The CBO 10 year analysis added 2022 and dropped 2011 because it's a 10 year analysis.  The costs are higher in 2022 than in 2011 (duh!).  Shame this site got taken in by that crude piece of anti-Obamacare propaganda.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:53 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Costs haven't gone up?  Then why has the cost of insurance gone up FOR EVERBODY?  Plus, more copays and higher deductibles.  No improvement in affordability whatsoever. Obama is a crony capitalist and took care of his corporate buddies, as usual.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:59 | Link to Comment Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

The high rate of growth of healthcare costs significantly predates Obamacare and is built into the original Obamacare forecasts.  The article implies that costs have gone up vs the original Obamacare forecast, which is incorrect propaganda.  I agree with you that Obamacare has many failings but it was the only way to get 30 million people some health insurance.  Medicare for all would eliminate our long-term deficit problems but the "sheeple" plus a majority of this sites commenters would be opposed to it.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:07 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Why do we need insurance to add hugely to the cost of providing health care with all its unneccesary paperwork?  Just sucking dollars out of what should be going to providing care. Medicare for all is the only way we can provide affordable health care, but it can't happen as long as we are ruled by crony capitalists who are taking care of special interests.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:32 | Link to Comment Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

We are each responsible for ourselves.  That "Stimulati" would choose to pay into a system with infinite intermediaries is great, so good luck with your contributions supporting your "health" - I'm all for freedom.   And with that freedom I will choose to take care of myself & my family friends and neighbors.  I will not participate in your sick care system, and if you think I or mine would be worse off for our non-participation, I guess time will tell.  I'll hedge my bets on my own knowledge and abilities.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:44 | Link to Comment Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Medicare has fewer intermediaries than private insurance.  Medicare is the least intrusive to the patient-doctor relationship out of all the health care Americans have - that is per my physician wife anyway.  I wouldn't be worried about your nonparticipation at all.  If Medicare were offered to all it would be the overwhelming favorite for Americans. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:08 | Link to Comment Apply Force
Apply Force's picture

Ummm - you mis-understood.  My behaviors are my "health" insurance.  My relationship with any doctor is on my & their terms - no intermediaries, no paper insurance.  As it is with us all - you are responsible for you, not your sick-care insurance, not medicare, and certainly not me.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:01 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Its hard to break through the propaganda, and your "votes" prove that.  Which health care system would these rugged individualists like to model ours on?  Which country?  Every other developed country has universal health care without the layers of "profits" being extracted by corporate interests:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Universal_health_care.svg

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:44 | Link to Comment wackyquacker
wackyquacker's picture

that's just it...with these people YOU don't get to decide anything. You're knowledge and abilities mean nothing, because you are inferior to these elitists and their socialist minions (we all know the type). Why won't these fucking people leave me alone? What is it in them that they believe their life's purpose is to lord over others? Think about it. These people at their core KNOW THEY are superior. I don't want to tell anyone how to live or gain control over institutions to FORCE people to behave MY way. For the past 40 yrs people with this mindset have steadily infiltrated institutions which have now reached 'critical mass'. Can you believe this shit? The minions and true believers, er comrades, inhabit (critical mass) the bowels of HHS and so this advertising, er brainwashing, campaign is natural. Can't you just these people in meetings, etc. oohing and ahhing with self importance of their great idea of this brilliant campaign? 911 has nothing to do with this shit; anyone who wants to muddy the water is a fool or a plant. Oh how I hate these people.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:35 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Meidcare for all would eliminate our long term deficit problems?

You are out of your damn mind. Its already a 7-800 billion a year expense, in what universe does greatly increasing that number eliminate deficit problems?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

Single payer is lower cost than private insurance.  You see it all over the world.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:54 | Link to Comment Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

Also, the costs will be offset by taxing businesses, imposing fees, penalizing companies in other undefined ways...not to mention force nearly everyone to participate.  These "offsets" will cause unseen consequences (such as higher unemployment, increased barrier to entry, misallocations, malinvestments, etc...) which will drive the real cost much higher...even though such costs will not be tracked by the CBO or (most likely) anyone else...they simply can't be.

Obamacare is a symptom of the cancer eating away at our liberties, daily.  I'm forced to do something for others...I don't get a choice.  That's the point.  Believe it or not, I'm a charitable man.  But I see charitable contributions waning because everyone thinks since the State is helping those less fortunate, they don't have to.  Think about that for two minutes...people no longer care because it's the State's job to do that.  Less liberty, more hostile/indifferent people.  It's a shame doctor's husbands don't examine the economic side of this reform.

A welfare state no matter its intentions is nothing more than a thug in priest's clothing.  You can quote me on that.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

I have examined the economics.  For the last few decades insurance companies have planted themselves between the doctor and the patient.  Taking money from the doctor and taking services from the patient and keeping the difference as profit.  To oppose Obamacare is to defend the status quo whether you like it or not.  Obamacare will be better for job creation because it will be easier for entrepreneurs to have access to healthcare and thus make it easier for them to move forward with their ideas.  Still, we will have problems with financing healthcare until we get to a singlepayer, Medicare for all type system.  You guys may not like it, but the voters will eventually demand it.  That will be far more efficient and the savings will pay for themselves.  To deny that is to ignore the reality of how inexpensive healthcare is for the rest of the advanced world in comparison to the US.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:07 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Yeah, and we've had nothing but deflation at the grocery stores the last few years. Hooray, Big O is in da house.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:51 | Link to Comment boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I believe that the SCOTUS will rule the mandatory aspect unconstitutional. I hope it does but even if they allow the law to stand I am not going to fret much about it because in two short years of Obamacare the nation will collapse. IF it lasts that long, when 50 million people who can't afford insurance now see how much they will have to pay under the plan, and when those with current insurance are dropped because businesses can save about 5-12 grand per year per employee and those people are forced into paying out of pocket or a government mandated pool they will rebel.

One of the genius aspects to this law was the part that hurts does not go into effect till 2014, but when it does people are going to be in for one shocking rude awakening.

And since government will now be responsible for your care they will also be able to force you to live a healthier lifestyle. Drug testing, require you to quit smoking, enroll you in a mandatory weight loss program where they regiment your diet and exercise just like Uncle Sam does with overweight recruits in the military. And it might take time, but on this slippery slope they have a lot longer timeline than individuals with the end point being you might be left alone for the remainder of your life but your kids and future progeny will live in a literal nanny state. NO TV TILL YOU DRINK YOUR BROCCOLI JUICE!

What it boils down to is that total US healthcare billing should not exceed 5% of GDP, doctors, hospitals, labs, drug makers, clinics, dentists, all of it, they currently are taking down more than 17% of GDP and will top one dollar in five our economy produces in their billing. They are strangling us, what is the point of any healthcare system if it bankrupts us all?

The reality is that 80% of healthcare dollars go to beginning of life and end of life functions. Like my Mom who was in ICU for two weeks before life support was ended. She basically lay in a bed with an IV and a vent that were both automated. She was monitored by a facility in Sacramento 400 miles away by a nurse watching over 12-18 patients at a time. So why was the billing more than half a million dollars? You should really be asking these things since YOU paid for it.  And some 5,000 other cases like it every day.  Why is one transplant over a million bucks?  Why are those in persistant vegitative states not just let go? 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:05 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

End of life care is absolutely one of the areas where we need to look at outcome based treament.  My friends in health care always complain about all the unneccessary procedures piled on to inflate the bill.  All those shiny new hospitals corporate health care built have to be paid for, after all!  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:03 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Actually that is the fascist part of Obamacare, they use pseudo science akin to Wall Street statistical models and global warming models to determine whether something 'works' or not.  It's really just statistical nonsense that will tell them what they want to hear. No that procedure doesn't work, and it won't make a difference in the outcome. 

Two of the most fascist parts of the bill are 'Comparative Effectiveness Research', another is 'Quality Adjusted Life Years'.  It's basically another way to say housing will never go down, except in this it'll say that procedure doesn't work, we're not going to pay for it.   Or, so and so is only expected to live x years, thus don't do certain routine procedures. 

It really is insidious to the max.  Here's another example.  Including only paying for procedures that go well.  Well if some procedures are 50/50 by nature, then you only get paid on 50 percent of procedures.  So 'they'll be' less likely to do these.  Except no matter how many you do 100 or 10,000 across the nation, it'll still be roughly 50/50.  So all it does is build in a self-reinforcing feedback loop that makes just about every procedure it's used on to lower the number of procedures overall continually. 

All the costs savings in Obamacare are fascist statistical tricks and gimmicks.  It doesn't address the cost of healthcare one iota, except to reward big insurance with a 'bigger pool'.  Which just goes right to their profits.

Fewer tests, fewer follow on procedures, because what you don't see/don't find out, you can't treat.

Also don't forget their 'death panel', which really does exist, has already come down with huge lists of procedures that should be done away with.  Want to know how sick it is? They even tell women not to self check their breasts.  Yep.  Even though it's 'free'. 

End of Life care they all try to brainwash people into is really code word for Hitlers T-4 'health' program.  It's genocide for the elderly, and it already exists in other countries. 

It'll take all the fascist aspects of Britain's N.I.C.E. and bring them here.  You want to know the TOP way they deal with their elderly? They drug them while stop feeding them until they starve to death. 

I'm a single payer advocate, but WITHOUT the fascist add ons that are present in this bill, and is all about 'bending the cost curve'.

You want to bend the cost curve? You already have some of it down with the big pharma and big health insurance...but the other aspect is we went away from the Hill-Burton standard. 

Hill-Burton, like Glass-Steagall used to be the standard in this country, and what that does is that it builds the hospital facilities and takes those costs out of the equation.  Remember as all the other bubble construction was going on, it also shot up the cost for building, expanding, renovating hosiptals which also adds to the overall cost of care.  Additionally it lowers the costs of doctors by trading in training for service for a couple of years. Basically like the old military way.  You'll become a doctor, but you'll have to work for a couple years afterwards there before starting a private practice or whatever.

In the end when you get rid of big pharma, big health care, and take alot of the cost with building/staffing the hospitals, you'll get a huge reduction in costs while increasing the level of treatment.

Finally coupling that with a removal of our imperial monetary system and the 8-12 percent real inflation pressure goes away.

It's not about doing less treatment, it's about the setup.  Don't fall for the end-of-life fascist line, because it HAS permeated the mindset of them all via 'costs'.  They already do 'less' tests and procedures, and try to kick patients out as fast as possible.   I've even had them 'suggest' non-treatment and let fixable problems end in a terminal way with my dad.  The fact is they 'ask' you, because they know a few suckers will take it for their family.  Thus those costs go away. 

If a doctor feels a test or procedure is necessary, it doesn't matter what asshole reads a list of services and second guesses it with 'cost' in mind.  If they need another x-ray because the person aspirated, or things might have changed since things can change quite quickly, these things should be done.  Infection is also a very important aspect that should never be overlooked.  What a lot of people don't realize is that with all our antibiotics, we really can't kill alot of infections.  We can only treat them when the infection becomes bad.  Thus when they do various things for 'infection' prevention purposes, it can actually save money in the long run.  In fact one of the best ways to lower costs is to have single rooms.  You put patients together and suddenly C.Diff and other diseases start running around like wildfire.  Again Hill-Burton takes the need to pack them in like sardines away. 

All healthcare is these days is 'cost', 'cost', and 'cost'.  Because it is, you can bet 'unintended consequences' from 'cost' being the main focus, causes even more 'cost'. 

From the patient perspective, cost shouldn't be the issue as it comes to standard procedures, which is the vast..vast...vast majority of what goes on.

You focus on cost via the setup.  That's where you ACTUALLY bend the cost curve, and not in the fascist Hitler way. 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:47 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

You sir know what you're talking about.  Good and accurate post.  Part of the reason also why health care costs go up so much is because it doesn't hide inflationary policies well with cheap Made in China imports like other sectors.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    Well if some procedures are 50/50 by nature, then you only get paid on 50 percent of procedures.  So 'they'll be' less likely to do these. 

If I understand your perspective correctly, you're saying this is "bad."

In what way?  Do you think medical treatments with a 50/50 success rate should ALWAYS be performed?

If so, why?

(Note: I'm not taking any side here, just interested to hear what you think.)

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:49 | Link to Comment spooz
spooz's picture

Talk to an ICU nurse about end of life care and you will hear about useless, invasive procedures that drive up the final tab.  Its all about corporate health care cashing in where they can, without consideration of quality of life.  

"Another interesting point in this [dementia] study is that what reduced the likelihood of this infliction of pain was a clear understanding by the patients’ loved ones of their dismal prognosis. So, although some of the less informed yet loud and disingenuous voices tout them as government-sponsored death panels, the reality is that end-of-life discussions are not intended to limit necessary care. Rather, their intent is to create an honest and transparent dialogue between the clinicians and the patient and his/her family, thus empowering them to make the right choices according to their values. Perhaps the fear-mongers in their torrent of feverish activity have been too busy to notice that the age of paternalistic medicine is over. In the 21st century patient empowerment is the mantra. End of life discussions are just that, empowering."

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/10/discussing-endoflife-care-icu-saving-medicare-money.html

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 22:39 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

ANYONE who invoked the phrase "death panels" without explicitly stating that they already exist is some kind of shill.

It's one of the most obvious pieces of bullshit invented to quibble about health-care.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:33 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

My mom volunteers at one of the premier hospices in the country. She has taken care of politicians, rock stars, and CEOs family members to try and make sure they leave this world in peace.

I always ask her to bring me the list of prescriptions that these people are taking, and the majority of the time it includes at least 2 SSRI's, 2 benzodiazepines, and a few more opiates to boot. Im just a Lehman (thats a financial joke for ya) but even I know that Alprazolam is not be prescribed with lorazepam. Th doctor spends 10 minutes per patient, gives them another death script, and then gives them a bill for 200$.

One day I went out to lunch with one of my moms people ( an ex prominent NFL linebacker) and he ordered a Big Mac twice. We were at bertuccis.....

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:11 | Link to Comment Bohm Squad
Bohm Squad's picture

+1

Glad to see private charity hasn't been completely displaced by a welfare state, yet.  Tell your mom some anonymous guy on some blog says, "Thanks."

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:20 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

She's a lurker, so you just did.

Take care man.

Love you momma.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:55 | Link to Comment peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

"delivered prosperity with a badge and a gun."

Taxes = slaves  by force .

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 04:05 | Link to Comment GernB
GernB's picture

That's completely unfair. It makes the government sound cold and impersonal, when their purpose is to help everyone. It should be:

"delivering prosperity with a badge, a gun, and a smile."

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:11 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

That phrase actually makes me think of Yosemite Sam rather than Uncle Sam.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:17 | Link to Comment ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

No one, and I mean not a single person, who I talk to about Obamacare is in favor of it. And these are people who span the entire political and economic spectrum. $20 million won't mean shit when people open their monthly statements and see how much their health insurance premiums go up.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:22 | Link to Comment dolph9
dolph9's picture

Things are so screwed up, I'm really not sure what to believe anymore.

Is there anybody around who remembers when at least things made sense a little?  When you could sort of figure out what you were good at, work in that field and make decent pay and associate with like minded people? 

Do you remember before 9/11, when people weren't looking over their shoulder all the time?  When you didn't have to be stripped to board a plane, and your family would greet you right at the gate?  When you could actually go everywhere and feel like you were breathing free air?

Do you remember when Republicans and Democrats actually tried to stand for something, even if they were unsuccessful? 

Do you remember when most people looked thin and well dressed and happy, and not either fat or poor or miserable or covered in tattoos?

Do you remember when most everybody you knew kind of listened to the same music, played the same games, lived in familes who did the same things?  Do you remember when you could actually understand every single person that you talked to?

Do you remember when rush hour was only one hour?  Do you remember when it didn't take 30 minutes to go half a mile?  Do you remember when the roads and bridges and houses looked clean and maintaned?

I remember all of these things, and more.  I suspect anybody over 30 does as well.  This is not idle nostalgia.  The rapid decline of this country is stunning.

And the truth is, I don't know how things are elsewhere because I don't travel out of the country much anymore.  But I have to say, I no longer recognize this country.

Learn it, all of you millenials with hopes and dreams.  This is what it means to be an adult in a collapsing world.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:34 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

People have been disgustingly fat in America since the early 1990s.  This isn't a post-911 development.  You only notice it more now because you're getting older and your cohort is getting older too and losing their youth metabolism.  

Traffic is getting worse because the small towns where manufacturing were are all dying, and people are forced to find work in metro areas, so the metro areas are all getting denser.  Population has also doubled since 1950, mostly from immigration. 

I do agree that the trends don't look good but the trends started since the 1960s.  Daniel Moynihan was right.  We didn't listen. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:55 | Link to Comment BlueCollaredOne
BlueCollaredOne's picture

My commute has increased by 30 minutes or so in the last 2 years . It could be based upon the fact that DC has decided to make all its major arteries a construction zone, but that soothes the proletariat and hires a bunch of well qualified individuals to hold a stop sign to let me know that I can't drive when another car is heading towards me.

And yea, America is becoming disgustingly fat. I'm tired of fat chicks. Womanizing is becoming harder when the majority of girls have more spare tires than my friends 4x4 jeep wrangler.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:10 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's due to the huge change in the wheat that is planted in the last 30 years.  Crop yields are up dramatically with the new strains, but there are unintended consequences.  One of those consequences is belly fat.

"Like Dr. Frankenstein, the scientists who created today’s wheat had good intentions: the goal was to produce more wheat per acre in a shorter span of time, thus vastly increasing yields and preventing worldwide starvation as the planet’s population swelled. To that extent, they succeeded. Geneticist Dr. Norman Borlaug, who created the short, stocky, fast-growing “dwarf” wheat most of us consume today, is credited with saving perhaps a billion people from starvation.

The problem is that dwarf wheat varieties were developed through a combination of cross-breeding and gene splicing. The result is a mutant plant with a genetic code that never existed in nature before. In fact, today’s wheat literally can’t survive in a natural setting. Take away the modern pesticides and fertilizers and it’s (pardon the pun) toast.

Perhaps overjoyed at the prospect of the feeding the world, the developers of modern wheat varieties weren’t interested in conducting tests to see if these genetically-modified strains were actually fit for human consumption. Dr. Davis believes they’re not. At the very least, we’re now consuming wheat that’s genetically different from what our ancestors consumed:"

http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2011/08/30/book-review-wheat-belly/

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:51 | Link to Comment jabu
jabu's picture

I remember living in the city of Phoenix when you waved at every passing vehicle, I think the population was under three hundred thousand back then.  I remember my neighborhood gathering almost every Friday or Saturday night.  Together.  United.  I know my neighbors today, but I've had to work at it.  Get to know your neighbors.  Have block parties.  Just go visit.  When you're connected, you're connected.  You look out for each other.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:23 | Link to Comment Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Good piece. Thanks ZH.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:33 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

Mrs. HD is fighting cancer. For anyone who thinks that the system is not broken is delusional. As we have learned firsthand - the American "health care" system does not care is you live, die or suffer - the only concern is how many tests, procedures and drugs they can charge you for before you become completely insolvent. I could rant for hours about the endless BS we've been through with the insurance company and hospitals (doctors are just stuck in the middle) - they know they have you trapped - where else are you going to go?

Nothing has made me feel more helpless than fighting for her medical care. God help you if you can't pay your premiums or co-pays.

 

 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:29 | Link to Comment guinea
guinea's picture

Doctors' hands are tied in the world of managed care and protocols.  My condolences to your wife, I hope she has a successful treatment and recovery.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:16 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

Very kind - thanks we are hoping for the best. She's a strong lady.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:05 | Link to Comment Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

HD, I hope you see this.

 

Go here: http://magnesiumforlife.com/

Poke around and get in touch with them. Very powerful work, very simple, very cheap.

I think the guys name is Dr. MArk Sircus.

Good luck to the Mrs. 

ori

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Thanks for speaking with me a few nights ago "HD".  Shoot me an E-Mail. hotfx@ymail.com   I'll forward it to my Mother. shes 70

   We had a pretty heavy duty cancer death in our family last year!  She has some pretty sweet friends.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:25 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

Sorry to hear about your loss Yen - cancer is just an unforgiving monster. I remember when 70 seemed impossibly old - most of my grandparents made it to almost 100...so got my fingers crossed.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:07 | Link to Comment jabu
jabu's picture

My family and I have been without health insurance for about 7 years.  The cost exceded our mortgage payment.  Anyways, my husband has asthma.  Rarely makes it through the night without using an inhaler.  The "new" inhalers mandated by the government (at 3 times the price) are not effective.  We looked for alternatives.  He's been "doing" H2O2 (foodgrade hydrogen peroxide) for almost 2 months.  He sleeps through the night almost always.  He also has really nasty varicose veins on one of his shins.  He's had problems with blood clots from them.  They are now at least 90% gone.  I mean the veins!  As a former RN, I'm stunned.  My brother-in-law was diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer 10 years ago (they wanted to give him female hormones or lop off his balls), he said no.  He has no cancer today.  He credits diet and H2O2.  I am now starting the H2O2.  The varicose veins really grabbed me.  Look into it.  I believe the only contraindication is organ transplant, otherwise, it can't hurt.  I have prayed for your wife and yourself.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:35 | Link to Comment HD
HD's picture

  Funny you should say that - our health insurance every month comes in $30 more than our mortgage. The costs are indeed outrageous - I hope you and your family get and stay well.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 06:09 | Link to Comment jabu
jabu's picture

Thank you.  We have.  Yours will, too.  God is good.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:19 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

As I'm sure you're aware, patients without health insurance get charged a lot more for medical services than ones that have health "insurance".  Today's health "insurance" is not without parallels in the mafia's "insurance" business.

Why does health care cost so much more in America than it does in Western European countires like Germany, France, and Italy?  Western Europe is not known as being a low cost labor market.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:58 | Link to Comment Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Jabu
I took 4 inhalers for my asthma for 30 years, 24 hrs/day 365. Rarely went more than 4 hrs between hits. I went to the dr and begged him for any other way. I felt like I was slowly dying, my father died at 62 with COPD and I knew that was going to be my fate except I was probably not going to make it that old. My doctor got in my face and said " face the fact you have a chronic disease and be thankful you have it at a time in history when pharmaceuticals are being developed to treat you".Well, something that day snapped in me and I was determined to find alternatives to modern medicine. I stumbled on a group of juice fasters on a vegan web site that advocated juice fasting especially for asthmatics. After 5 juice fasts running from 5 days to 3 weeks I was asthma free (took about a year for 100%). That was 5 years ago and I have not had one asthma attack even after contracting H1N1 which should have put me in ICU. The juice fasts were difficult and I detoxed quite hard at times. Look into it. Oh, afterwards I told my dr about what I accomplished and he just scoffed " you are just in remission". Drugs and surgery are the only things modern medicine has to offer. They consider anything else a joke.
I hope you find health and happiness, God bless

Miffed:-)

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 07:26 | Link to Comment Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

"...where else are you going to go?" With all due respect...

Thailand. Really. And at least a third of the cost.

www.csmngt.com/medical2.htm

http://www.bumrungrad.com/thailandhospital

They even do cost estimates by email. Maybe they lack the "personal touch" as it is  a large hospital but they make it up in efficiency. You think this is a joke?. Tell that to the sheiks that fly in from Gulf and arrive at the front door in their Bentleys.

By the way there are alternative therapies for cancer, two of which are intravenous Vitamin C and another with sodium biocarbonate.


 

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