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Guest Post: The Taxpayer Funded PR Campaign For Obamacare Begins

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by James E. Miller of the Ludwig von Mises Institute of Canada,

 

Only in public schools and universities is the fairy tale still taught that governments are representative of the people.  The blue collared man on the street realizes the chips are stacked against him.  For those who don’t have political connections, the pseudo fascist system that is still referred to as “capitalism” in the U.S. is akin to a casino game of chance.  That is, the odds are always in the house’s favor.  The house is the federal leviathan and its equivalent at the state and local level as well as the big, cartelized industries which feed off government protection.  As comedian George Carlin accurately observed:

It’s a big club and you ain’t in it!

Even the catalyst for the American Revolution, the Boston Tea Party, was not a grand political statement on the unjustifiable nature of taxation without representation.  At the time, founding father John Hancock was the richest smuggler in North America.  The British Parliament lowered the import tax on tea in 1773 which cut into Hancock’s profits.  According to economic historian Gary North:

The Tea Party had stopped the unloading of the tea by throwing privately owned tea off a privately owned ship – a ship in competition with Hancock’s ships. The Boston Tea Party was in fact a well-organized protest against lower prices stemming from lower taxes.

The state, by virtue of its monopoly on predation, has always functioned as a power center to be exploited by the elite few.  Politicians deceive their way to public office by promising voters the world while pocketing the campaign funds to do the bidding of their corporate masters.  For all his populist rhetoric, President Obama was bankrolled into office by Wall Street; namely Goldman Sachs.  This is why no top financial executives have been charged for fraud stemming from the housing bubble.  It’s the same reason he backed the granting of immunity to telecommunication companies for illegally aiding Washington in warrant-less domestic wiretapping of private communications. Obama travels the country on the taxpayer’s dime to convince Americans he is still the fighter for the middle class.  The more gullible of voters will believe the lie time and time again despite his administration being staffed by Wall Street alum.  They are infatuated with the idea of being part of something meaningful.  This naivety en masse is the true aim of the state.  It ensures for the least amount of objection and more opportunity for exploitation by the establishment.

The President’s “universal health care” scheme is yet another example of the incestual relationship between big government and big business.

In what can only be described as a modern day case of Orwellian irony, the Health and Human Services Department has awarded a $20 million contract to public relations firm Porter Novelli to begin promoting the Affordable Care Act.  From The Hill newspaper:

The Health and Human Services Department has signed a $20 million contract with a public-relations firm to highlight part of the Affordable Care Act.

 

The new, multimedia ad campaign is designed to educate the public about how to stay healthy and prevent illnesses, an HHS official said.

 

The campaign was mandated by the Affordable Care Act and must describe the importance of prevention while also explaining preventive benefits provided by the healthcare law. The law makes many preventive services available without a co-pay or deductible, and provides new preventive benefits to Medicare patients.

To sum up this disconnect between reality and fantasy: the myth goes that government is beholden to the people.  Elected representatives only ever act in the best interest of their constituents.  This is why Congress enacted a health care reform bill that was opposed by a majority of the American public.  But of course the reform was for their own good.  The public wasn’t allowed to know the final ramifications of Obamacare before it was passed.  The truth is never meant for the little people.  That’s why then-Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi declared “we have to pass the bill so that you can…find out what is in it.”  In other words, “obey us unconditionally.”

Again, this whole affair was supposedly done in the public’s interest.  Average Joe just doesn’t understand what is good for him.  How dare he question the intention of his political leaders!

Now a promotional campaign must be undertaken to convince the people that this new frontier in health care is a great step forward to more affordability.  Taxpayers only have to pick up the $20 million tab to be told about the good their government delivers to them.

What the ad campaign won’t reveal is that the Affordable Care Act was never the product of well-meaning souls but was crafted exclusively by the health industry itself.  The bill is virtually identical to a plan outlined by the trade association American’s Health Insurance Plans (AHIP) in 2009.  A former Vice President to Wellpoint Inc. was revealed to have written the original bill in 2009.  Stocks of health care companies actually shot up as the bill made its way through Congress.  The reasoning was quite simple since the bill acts as a huge subsidy to the industry.  With millions poised to be forced into buying insurance, Howard Dean was dead on when he called the bill “an insurance company’s dream.”

Like compulsory vaccinations, the individual mandate is nothing but an industry bailout.  Under the guise of protecting the right of citizens, government merely acts as a puppet of entrenched special interests.  Politicians and bureaucrats further advance their dream of centrally managing more of the economy while simultaneously appeasing big business.  Competition is inhibited with regulatory red tape as the big players continue to rake in income and market share.  The state looks out for itself and its financiers only.

With Obamacare, the middle class will end up being liable for yet another entitlement program that, like any other government initiative, will cost more than was initially estimated.  Worse yet, they will be bombarded with advertisements they paid for which attempt to convince them that Uncle Sam has once again delivered prosperity with a badge and a gun.

The disheartening part is some Americans will be foolish enough to actually believe it.

 

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Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:24 | 2465744 Jena
Jena's picture

Sincere best wishes to you both, HD.  Fighting through the medical system with all of the foolish people who make it more difficult than it already has to be is exhausting.  Finding your way to the excellent people who are there for the right reasons, from hospital registration departments to oncology specialists, make the trip a little easier.

The system rupture happened a long time ago -- I don't know when.  It just continues to erode.  Until a person gets caught up in the mess yourself, they can't begin to imagine how bad it is.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:38 | 2464539 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

where is this middle class of which thou speaketh?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 00:55 | 2464572 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Obamacare or Romneycare........and how the fuck are these the 2 choices !!!!......hmmmmmmmmmm

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 04:02 | 2464794 GernB
GernB's picture

The difference between the two couldn't be more clear. Obama is overtly for expanding the size and role of government, which results in less individual freedom and more government intrusion and control of our lives. Romney on the other hand is for keeping the current massive size and power of government, complete with it's many broken and unconsitutional parts. He just wants to fix it so it works better and give control of it to conservatives.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:45 | 2465287 spooz
spooz's picture

As a progressive, I think Obama is more dangerous than Romney because he pretends to be something he is not.  He is just as dedicated to crony capitalism as the other side, but pretends to be liberal. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. More and more sheeple are catching on to that.

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/05/barack-obama-the-great-deceiver.html

 The only way to make things better is to escape the duopoly.  Third parties are still considered spoilers and not legitimate choices.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:22 | 2465288 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Romney just wants to "fix" it so he and his owners can get a bigger piece of the action.  Just like Obama's owners four years ago.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:05 | 2464588 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 HD, make sure the Email is denotated HD/

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:06 | 2464591 Spaceman Spiff
Spaceman Spiff's picture

Capitalism shouldn't be impugned.   We haven't really practiced it for a generation or two.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:57 | 2464791 GernB
GernB's picture

Yes. For example, medicare and medicade make up a significant percentage of the health care system. Plus is it US tax law that gives my employer a break for buying me insurance but refuses to give me a tax break for buying my own. The health care market barely resembles a free market thanks to government intervention. If you want to know why health care is expensive, look no further than our federal government.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:23 | 2464607 Psyman
Psyman's picture

Oh yea, and then there's this.  In addition to the U.S. having quickly become the most high tech surveillance based police state in human history.  In addition to the TSA and check points everywhere.  In addition to the 40 million illegals and clear disregard for the welfare of the native born American citizens by the political elite.  In addition to the break down of the rule of law with regards to attacks by blacks on whites under Holder's "justice" department.  In addition to our crippling debts.  In addition to our massive welfare state and ever increasing taxes.  In addition to the bailouts and fascism where the separate of state and corporate power if indistinguishable.

 

In addition to all that, Obamacare is still on the books.  I told every body when that was passed that I'd quit working and/or leave the country.  And I'm a man of my word.

 

I am planning for Obama to be re-elected and for Obamacare to be upheld by the Supreme Court.  And that plan leads me out of the United States to seek liberty elsewhere, for it has clearly be destroyed in America.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:19 | 2464834 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I resist Obama Care because of what it has done to my doctor.

Before Obama was even President, things were routine at the Doc, downright quiet and peaceful You went when you needed something fixed or a med to help you.

Today the Doc has a laptop computer. Who knows what is on that computer. We sometimes say that the Government is on one hand and I am on the other.

I have a procedure coming up and have had useful visits with other docs and understand my own body very well these days. The one thing you have to do is stand up for yourself. If the procedure reveals something and they want to surgery... they need to talk to me first with the evidence.

In today's environment of Obamacare, the procedure now has the feel of a screening process where income can be extracted should something be discovered.

What they don't understand is I don't wish to be a chained patient kept alive for the sake of income. Death would be a welcome embrace and escape from this life.

The problem is the 99% of people will sit in the waiting room for as long as it takes to get care, however bad it is. Some will die. Some will live.

The rest caught in between life and death have become revenue generators.

That has to stop.

You have got to live free or die trying... on your own terms.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:18 | 2465280 spooz
spooz's picture

Computerized records are very useful in continutity of care.  Data can also be accumulated to compare outcomes for different treatments to determine the most effective and economical treagtments. Its one of the ways we can use system engineering tools to make our health care system better.  Obamacare isn't responsible for computers. Thats been going on for quite awhile. Obamacare sucks because too many dollars are sucked out for special interests over care.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:47 | 2465669 Psyman
Psyman's picture

Some people prefer their hemroids and STD's be kept between them and their medical provider, not them and the local police, federal police, intelligence agencies, their congressman, etc.

 

It's gonna be much harder for people to lie their way into the military in the future.  Because broken bones, childhood ADHD, etc. are all potentially disqualifying conditions.  And they'll simply run your name through the medical database to see your entire medical history.

 

The more data they have on you the more power they have over you.  You better be Mr. Rogers if you wanna stand up and exercise your free speech against the political establishment.  Otherwise they'll use their databases to destroy you, utterly.

 

"So, Mr. Political Agitator, I guess I'll tell your wife about your web searches for online dating and that you had gonnorhea 3 times while in the Navy in your early 20's.  Let's see, what else do we have on you..."

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:04 | 2465706 spooz
spooz's picture

Well, of course we have privacy concerns in this country, only getting worse with legislation like NDAA passed by our fascist legislature.  That doesn't mitigate the fact that doctors having your medical history to review is a very valuable tool in health care, and the usefulness of technology used in a responsible way.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 18:16 | 2466112 Miffed Microbio...
Miffed Microbiologist's picture

Sorry to tell you this but STDs are required reporting by law ( not sure if state or federal) We report about 300 cases of GC and Clamydia a year to Public Health and have been so for the 27 years Ive been in the field. There is no option to this and the fines are outrageous for non compliance. They keep adding diseases we have to report. Now we must report Hep C which is arguably NOT a public health issue( very low sexual transmission rate). Ive questioned the reason for this and got not answer. Sorry, don't shoot me Im just the messenger but if you have gone to the doctor for any of the above you are on numerous (state and federal) lists.
Bummer huh, welcome to the brave new world.

Miffed:-)

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:41 | 2465649 Psyman
Psyman's picture

Digitized health records are just more data points for the databases that the central planners use to control and dominate their helpless populace.  They say it's for "security", but anyone that knows anything about computers know that digital records are extremely simple for hackers to steal enmasse from anywhere in the world.  Much harder to steal tens of millions of paper records from millions of doctor's offices and hospitals.

 

Digital storage and computers have enabled the power hungry elites to a sickening degree.  They believe they are Gods and have a birthright to rule humanity.  They believe they should micro-manage every aspect of human existence from cradle to grave.  They believe they just need better data, more data, and they can make better decisions.  Tweak a variable here or there and their perfect scientificially managed utopia will be reality.

 

They are sickening tyrants, all of them.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 07:52 | 2464957 mvsjcl
mvsjcl's picture

I left in '09. Not an easy choice, or one taken lightly. After 12 years in the Marines, and four more in the Army, I'd always considered myself a proud American. But 9/11, and my subsequent research into the event, opened my eyes. I fled in terror. Nothing that has happened since then has made me regret my choice. Fortunately, my wife had the same awakening as I did.

 

I don't know what the future holds. Only time will tell. There's always hope, but I can't pin the future of my pre-teen daughter's well-being on the hope that enough citizens of the U.S. wake up and do something about the encroaching nature of a government insane with power lust.

 

It really is hard to shave without looking at yourself in the mirror. I have no problem shaving.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:33 | 2465321 toady
toady's picture

That's why I quit shaving.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:40 | 2465647 spooz
spooz's picture

So, where did you go, and how is the health care there?  Considering our crony capitalistic system is the worst of all developed countries, you are probably much better off.  Looks like anywhere worth going has some form of Universal health care.  Were you a big supporter of that system when you were here in the US?:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Universal_health_care.svg

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:36 | 2465630 spooz
spooz's picture

So you left the US?  Good for you.  If you are in a developed country, you most likely have better health care than here, probably universal. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 01:43 | 2464637 q99x2
q99x2's picture

ObamaCare. What? The Federal Government wants to do something for me. Haven't they done enough? Can't he look for a job in the country he was born in.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:18 | 2464684 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Nice to see, we're on the same page!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:53 | 2464784 GernB
GernB's picture

I don't want the government taking care of me. At least not based on the way they take care of other things, like thier budget. I'll take my chances on my own. Thanks.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:33 | 2465625 spooz
spooz's picture

Hopefully you or someone you love won't suffer this woman's fate.  Makes us look pretty third world.

"She needed a biopsy to confirm the type of cancer and a CT scan to see if the tumor had spread beyond the cervix. If she were lucky, she would have a some combination of a hysterectomy, chemotherapy, and radiation with a 50-65% chance of survival. If the cancer had spread, she would have radiation and chemotherapy with about a 25% chance of surviving.

But the cancer surgeons were not allowed to offer an uninsured woman a hysterectomy. Every now and then they snuck someone in, claiming to the administrators that the patient was more emergent than they really were. But one surgery doesn’t cure stage 2 or 3 cervical cancer, or even stave it off for long. It takes multiple admissions and week after week of expensive chemotherapy and/or radiation.

The radiation doctors were also not allowed to see uninsured patients. They could not even give a dying women a few weeks of radiation to ease her tumor’s stench while it caused her to bleed to death or killed her another way. They could give her one dose today. A very temporary measure for the bleeding, but only if her blood count was low enough. It wasn’t because she’s had the blood transfusion to get her here."

http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/cancer-v-the-constitution/

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:55 | 2464726 All Out Of Bubblegum
All Out Of Bubblegum's picture

What else can we expect from a government that says U.K.L. Lee is a Hawaiian registrar and expects us to believe it?

 

whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/04/27/president-obamas-long-form-birth-certificate

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:29 | 2465608 spooz
spooz's picture

Get yer tinfoil hats right here!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:08 | 2464744 capitallosses
capitallosses's picture

You have to repeal it to understand it. So watcha waiting for?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:50 | 2464780 pcrs
pcrs's picture

The heros that threw the tea of the ship were also dressed up as indians. Just in case any repercussions would follow

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:22 | 2464838 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

That is different.

England saw Tea and other items as a revenue stream imposed via taxation without any consent or deny from the Colonies. We would settle this eventually through war.

We settled the Slavery Economy and other issues through the Civil War. However the process is so traumatic that it echoes down through the Generations even today.

We have done so much and I would hate to see all of this get bagged and tossed into the trash.

Not without at least trying to fight.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:50 | 2464781 GernB
GernB's picture

Yes, there will be a massive PR push to convince us that they already bought our votes. The thrust of the campaign will be to correct our stubborn refusal to accept this by highlighting the many ways in which our votes were bought and paid for by Obamacare.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:56 | 2464873 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Andthere's no way to shit can the wwhole mess unless we have a meaningful alternative to the Dems and Repubs.  They are both crooked worthless POS.  Term limit of one for all state and federal and local offices anyone?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 07:06 | 2464919 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

At least Madamoselle Lagarde has her heart in the right place.

"The International Monetary Fund has ratcheted up the pressure on crisis-hit Greece after she said she has more sympathy for children deprived of decent schooling in sub-Saharan Africa than for many of those facing poverty in Athens.

Asked whether she is able to block out of her mind the mothers unable to get access to midwives or patients unable to obtain life-saving drugs, Lagarde replies: "I think more of the little kids from a school in a little village in Niger who get teaching two hours a day, sharing one chair for three of them, and who are very keen to get an education. I have them in my mind all the time. Because I think they need even more help than the people in Athens."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/25/payback-time-lagarde-greeks?...

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:20 | 2464980 orangegeek
orangegeek's picture

Socialized systems are a huge success.  Just ask Europe - they'll explain.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:46 | 2465021 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Yup. Socialized European health systems blow the US systems out of the water. Cheaper and better results! Facts will kill you every time man.

Europe overall is actually in better economic shape than the US (it si the screwed up Euro/Eurobonds situation that is leading to the crisis). It is only the dollar as reserve currency that makes the US look remotely stable ... but it is just the markets way of giving the US enough rope to hang itself with. But for a 10% deficit to GDP ratio the US economy would be further in the toilet than Europe.

The US is a land of fat (fed corporate food), undereducated (fed expensive useless education) and brainwashed (corporate media) minions. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:01 | 2465090 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Bill,

How many times have we come over there and bailed out your dumb asses?  How many times have we had to get in the middle of your childish squabbles and settle things?  How many times have we had to come and save your dumb-slave asses from the bad man trying to take over the world?  You bunch of euro-serfs make me sick.  You need to take you slave-ass mentality somewhere else.  Our one country is richer than your precious 27 union.  Our one country provides the military protection to your 27 union.  Our one country has conquered your 27 union and given it back to your dumbass to you can go and screw it up again.  If it weren't for the US you all would be speaking German right now, so take you uneducated, nonfactual, slave ass somewhere else.  You don't belong on a board where people have the tools to think for themselves.  We have PUT 2 and 2 together.  You have been TOLD what the answer is.  Crawl back into your state run safety blanket and ......STFU!!!!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:41 | 2465355 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Americans have never "bailed out" the Europeans.  Americans bailed out the British, French and Wall St. bankers.  The Americans, "doing good in WW 1", caused most of the pain of the 20th century wars and tyrannies.  They are still causing most of the world's pain and suffering, thanks to the American military and it's "protection of American interests".

Maybe the Germans like speaking German?  What make you think that most of the world likes speaking American?

"Like one who takes a dog by the ears
Is he who passes by and meddles with strife not belonging to him." Proverbs 26:17

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:46 | 2465374 toady
toady's picture

Thank you.

It seems there is ALWAYS something to blame our problems on... dem, tea-pub, healthcare, etc.

In reality there ARE good models of nearly every system out there.

The only remaining problem is greed, and THAT is what is destroying us. The 1%, with the help of government and TPTB, have their fingers in every pie, taking larger and larger slices.

There is nothing left. The 1% have it all.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:25 | 2464986 Burticus
Burticus's picture

Bushbamacare, Obamneycare, same old $#!+.

Only the free enterprise market economic system can achieve the optimal production & distribution of goods and services, providing high quality at low cost.

Gubbermint meddling always causes misallocation of resources, resulting in poor quality and/or high cost.  For example, the two industries whose costs have increased astronomically are gubmint Ponzis - sick care and higher edjumucation.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:40 | 2465014 billwilson
billwilson's picture

Utter bullshit. The US which has the largest for profit medical system has the highest costs in the world, and gets vastly inferior results. In value for money, public universal systems do the best. Reality sucks, eh? Corporations DO NOT do everything better and cheaper.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:52 | 2465082 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

A prime example would be this Corporation?

 The world somehow decided that they needed a middle man to manage the nation’s currency, money the fucking thing we as humans in this time of our existence use for exchange. We know monopolies are bad but the world decides (not at all the same time of course)to have a group of individuals we will call them Vinnie & Pauly and their related friends to have SOLE control of that fucking thing everyone has decided this is what we will use for exchange. In effect, creating a MONOPOLY over the world’s money supply. 

Then to make sure they have the tools to control that thing we also give them the POWER to create it and LOAN it to us so they can turn a PROFIT out of something they can create and already control? They pass laws forcing us to use that controlled money to make sure there is no competition for Vinnie & Paulie. So what keeps the world or Nations from destroying this Monopoly?

Nations go to WAR all the time against other Nations. Why has no group of Nations decide to go to War against a Private corporation that acts as a middle man skimming off the wealth of Nations?

Why does NO NATION ,COUNTRY, OUTPOST have the RIGHT to AUDIT Vinnie and Paulies Operation?

Who protects this Cartel, business, corporation, clearing house, middle men that Vinnie, Pauly and their relatives have created and convinced the world that it is the BEST system for the planet?

If you want to make this into reality just replaced Vinnie & Pauly with Rothschild & Rockefeller

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:53 | 2465083 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Talk about bullshit, you are full of it.  Universal systems are failing around the world and anyone with money that is caught in a universal system comes to the US for treatment.  Everyday thousands of Canadians cross the border to get real, timely healthcare.  You need to get some reality.  Name ONE THING the gov does better than corporations, and robbing the public doesn't count.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:56 | 2465205 spooz
spooz's picture

The long wait times are for elective surgery.  If a Canadian needs to see a doctor for routine care, they just walk into a free clinic and their wait is minutes or hours.  If you factor in the wait time for uninsured/underinsured in our country for elective surgery, in many cases it is FOREVER since they are not covered. Take a look at Germany or UK for better wait times than the US and universal coverage.

People come to the US for surgery because we have some of the best hospitals in the world and some of the best health care in the world if you are wealthy. If not, if you don't have insurance you will be stuck using the ER when your health conditions finally become dire:

http://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/cancer-v-the-constitution/

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:22 | 2465285 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Real world instance that proves you wrong:

Have a friend and his wife has terminal cancer.  She was on a  cruise in Alaska, fell, and they wanted to get her an MRI.  In Canada, they were told the wait would be 6 months, at least.  We can have an MRI anywhere in the US within a week.

Take you socialistic BS somewhere else because "it don't fly here".

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:08 | 2465532 spooz
spooz's picture

Doesn't prove me wrong.  Canada prioritizes MRIs since they don't have the huge number of scanners that we do.  My sources tell me that a lot of unneccesary scans are done in the US on terminally ill patients.  Do you think someone riddled with cancer really needs hip surgery if they have two months to live?  Thats the kind of stuff that runs up the cost of health care in this country.

You can "have" an MRI scan in the US if you are willing to pay $1000-$5000 for it. If you don't have money or insurance, fuhgeddaboudit. 

If you want to call me a socialist, guess I'll have to call you a fascist.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:25 | 2465298 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Yeah, and if you are "not wealthy" you get stuck with the psuedo-universal system we have been handed at the cost of an INSURANCE run healthcare system.

The very thing that has corrupted our healthcare, you want to put on steroids.  Kind of like a banker who says the answer to a debt problem is more debt.  Wake up, dumbass.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:38 | 2465641 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

What kind of medical care do you get in the USA if you're "not wealthy"?

Mine's mostly OK.  I'm relatively young and healthy.  I do wait an hour for any routine office visit.  Getting specialized tests is effectively impossible--I can't afford 'em.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:58 | 2465695 spooz
spooz's picture

Sorry....what do *I* want to put on steroids?  How so?  What, you think I support the current status quo or the new twist on status quo, Obamacare (even more perks for special corporate interests)?  Obviously you have mistaken me for someone else.  Unless you think Obamacare has any similarity at all to Universal coverage, in which case you're delusional.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:57 | 2465691 spooz
spooz's picture

.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:37 | 2465009 billwilson
billwilson's picture

More drivel from the mises clown!

Tyler - give it a rest. This guy does nothing for your site!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:13 | 2465106 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

"ObamaCare" is not the answer.

I don't believe there IS an answer.

Until the entire developed world shares in the cost of developing and manufacturing medications (which they do not), this issue will plague the US - and, the other developed nations.

..and that is only one issue of this.

Moreover, what with the vast numbers of people not paying into the system itself (income taxes, and living off the government already), ObamaCare is fraught with controls, central planning (which NEVER works - see below), and corruption.

I have long laughed at the instance of some sort of socialist/"shared sacrifice" mantra, promoted by the Progressive/Liberal side.

With countless numbers of illegal aliens, scamming off of the give-away "entitlement" government, as well as the born in the US millions that do, it is impossible for a system such as ObamaCare to work at all - without it costing billions, and effectively taxing the "makers" to death.

Boot out the illegals, end the lobbying, enact strict rules for EVERY developed nation to abide by, cost-wise, and then one can proceed. But only after.

Chances of that happening? IMO - ZERO

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:49 | 2465195 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

The answer is simple, but doing it is, at this point, virtually impossible.  It will happen on its own someday in the near future but no one has the backbone to get it done by choice.

DO AWAY WITH HEALTH INSURANCE!

We get true competition in the market.  We get cheaper prices.  We get people in the business who are not in it for the money.  And we get to make individual decisions about our lives without someone telling us how to act and live because, "we are all in this together".  Insurance IS the problem.

I know that is radical, but it is also the attitude that built this country and the attitude that made it great.  Look, we all die someday.  Right now we are being held hostage by the thought and hope that with the right care and proper technology we somehow will live forever.  Ain't gonna happen!

People will say we wouldn't have all the medical advancement without the money to research it.  BULLSHIT!  Who puts up all the money for silicon valley companies to research and develop all their gadgets?  Let's take Apple for instance.  They have R&D a product that the whole world stands in line to buy.  They did it with private R&D money.  They brought it to market and have around 20 billion in cash sitting in the bank.  No one bought "Apple-insurance" so they would "have enough money" to buy the next product.  We could make example after example of this in the private world where insurance slush funds don't corrupt the market place.

Based on supply, demand, cost, material used, etc., healthcare should be dirt cheap in this country.  The reason it isn't is because when you need it, you have to have it, and there is a huge pile of money sitting there to pay the bill.  Doctors used to come and deliver little Johnny for a dozen eggs and a hunk of butter.  Now its around $10k.  Instead of having a family friend who cares about you and was there when your mom delivered you, we get a goober who is just in it for the money.  They haven't cured a disease since polio.  The whole system is about treatment with the lie of a cure that is coming.  Treatment has migrated now to about 80% narcotics.  Keep them comfortable while they die and charge the hell out of that insurance policy.  All they do is develop a drug to trick your mind into thinking you are no longer sick until your body heals itself or you die.  No doubt we have made advancements in many areas but most of that has been funded by private money.

I am sure there is case after case out there to say that I am wrong, but if you back up and look at the big picture, you have to see that what I am saying is right.  Forget the gov (and doctors for that matter) care about you health and well being.  You are a money bag to them and they will drain you dry and kick you to the curb, and I have case after case to prove that is a fact.  Remove the money bag and maybe someday, somewhere, we might get seen once again as a human being, sick, in pain, needing care, and money is not an issue.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:27 | 2465145 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

I don't care what you call it or how you word it, if the gov makes you pay something, THEN IT IS A TAX!, plain and simple.

You guys can go on and on about the "healthcare system" (what an oxymoron) all you want, but the FACT is that it is all about the MONEY.  The gov needs money and has to form the new tax as being for our good.  Otherwise they would just borrow more from the Fed.  They have borrowed too much, will have to borrow more to pay for what they have already borrowed, and need more "real" revenue from the public to cover their debts.  That revenue is going to be your health insurance premium.  The health industry will get the shaft once the gov has the purse strings.  The general public will get the shaft when the gov decides who gets what care. 

This is all FASCISM.  When the gov takes over the corporate world and installs their bureaucrats to run things, we call that communism.  When the gov takes corporate money (lobbyist) and writes laws that force people to spend with that corporation, we call that fascism.  The gov is on the take like a mafia godfather.  The only way you deal with this kind of cockroach is to move or exterminate them.  Since the whole world is infested and there is nowhere to move, I guess we will learn to live with roaches or get out the Raid.

Bickering back and forth about the meaningless details is what got us in this mess to begin with.  Until we get a plan and some action, we will always be divided and conquered.  I am looking for a site where we not only talk about this screwed up criminal world we live in but a place where we come together for an action plan.  I am ready to follow the right leadership or carry the ball if someone has the right plan.  Are you?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:09 | 2465249 spooz
spooz's picture

It is about money, but it is about how to spend that money in the most effective way to provide affordable health care.  Corporations are being taken care of in a crony capitalistic fashion by our legislature.  So many of our limited resources are going to profits of corporate health care, the insurance industry and Big Pharma.  You probably don't know that we have to pay more than the rest of the world for our drugs because of the cozy relationship Big Pharma has with our government.  

Look at Germany and the UK (or any other developed country, for that matter) for cheaper and more effective health care.  These countries don't have the special interests sucking dollars out of care.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:30 | 2465311 bshirley1968
bshirley1968's picture

Dude, you need to wake up and get with the current program.  The UK?  They are trying desperately to get out of the social medicine nightmare they are in.  Their system is full of problems that revolve around money that causes doctors to weigh the cost over the care of the patient.

When it becomes all about money, the haves will always tilt the game to their favor, and the people in charge will by default always be the "haves".  Therefore, the have-nots will whine and gripe about the situation but be powerless to do anything about it.  The day we let healthcare be about money was the day we forged the chains of healthcare slavery.  It is the same for every aspect of life.  "The LOVE of money IS THE ROOT of ALL evil."

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:34 | 2465457 spooz
spooz's picture

You're right about the UK, their recent "reforms" look to be a big step backward, even though they health care still costs half of what it does in the US (per capita) for better outcomes.  

So, substitute Australia for UK.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:32 | 2465159 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

It's the Progressives stupid!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:06 | 2465234 El
El's picture

The comments section at ZH gets overrun by Obamatroll propagandists on the weekends.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:05 | 2465553 spooz
spooz's picture

Did I miss the comment by the Obama supporter here?  Or is anybody who disagrees with you an Obamatroll? Sounds like you're stuck in duopoly muck.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:22 | 2465286 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I am self employed and have only a very high deductible policy so it's usually cash for me. The rates I can get for minor treatments are discounted 50-75% than they would be if I had insurance. Please explain. I am routinely told that would cost : example- $700.00 if you use insurance but if you pay cash it's $300. Same with dental procedures.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:44 | 2465366 Jumbie
Jumbie's picture

Copy, from Fox "News", for those who won't read a link:

"Recently, President Obama’s senior adviser David Plouffe called Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romneythe godfather of the individual mandate.” At a GOP primary debate in 2011, Romney said, “We got the idea of an individual mandate…from [Newt Gingrich], and [Newt] got it from the Heritage Foundation.” 

In fact, the idea of requiring businesses or individuals to provide and pay for health insurance traces at least as far back as Richard Nixon, who in 1974 proposed a mandate that “every employer would be required to offer all full-time employees the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan,” the insurance plan Nixon was pushing

In 1989, Stuart Butler of the Heritage Foundation shifted the conservative frame from an employer mandate to an individual mandate, writing:

If a man is struck down by a heart attack in the street, Americans will care for him whether or not he has insurance. If we find that he has spent his money on other things rather than insurance, we may be angry but we will not deny him services—even if that means more prudent citizens end up paying the tab…. A mandate on households certainly would force those with adequate means to obtain insurance protection, which would end the problem of middle-class “free riders” on society’s sense of obligation.

Incidentally, Butler has recently tried to renounce his invention of the individual mandate, but it appears to me that his reasoning reads something like, “I was for it when it was a Republican idea and am against it now that Democrats embraced it.”

Romney, the Godfather of Obamacare, now tries to distance himself from it. The same Republicans who, in 2003, created the highly expensive prescription drug giveaway for seniors (Medicare Part D) are crying “big government” and “creeping socialism.”

 

 

Health care for our dollar?

 

http://www.photius.com/rankings/who_world_health_ranks.html

The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds.

So, rhetorically, where is all that GDP/profit going, and who is producing it? 

And, the points above RE artificial scarcity should be well understood by readers here.

Big Pharma spends $22,000 per doctor, per year on direct advertising. Guess who pays for all the ex-chearleaders?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:19 | 2465449 strayaway
strayaway's picture

In 2007, Gov. Perry mandated, by executive order, that 11 and 12 year old girls be required to get Gardasil vaccines. Each vaccination has a list price of $360. Gardasil was produced by Merck which had previously given Gov. Perry $28,000 of campaign contributions. The Texas legislature overturned Gov. Perry's executive order.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:49 | 2465513 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

If the government wanted to help they could get health care cost$ under control. The very thing they left out in the Reform package. What a joke our bought and paid for Congress is.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 14:21 | 2465732 Morrotzo
Morrotzo's picture

The individual mandate thing is something the GOP wanted for 40+ years. Reagan, Nixon, Gingrich, Dole, Romney all wanted it and proposed legislation for it. Every single decade you can see GOP support for it. It doesn't allow competition with medicine or drug reimportation, patent limits or anything like that.It just means more capitve participants in the health insurance racket. DNC likes it for all the reasons the GOP secretly does, plus it makes Mommy and Daddy government even larger and more potent and to cap it all off the fines are a backdoor taxation on the young and healthy.

It just means more captive purchasers for corporate parasitism, the health insurance racket. Everybody in American politics, from the Supreme Court, to the presidency, to Congress, to state legislatures and city councils has been thoroughly "lobbied" (bribed and threatened) by the health insurance "industry." 400,000 employees at 700 billion of revenue per year is an awful lot of so-called lobbying. To me it is racketeering.

Look at the system other countries like Germany have. Direct guarantees of service, not "insurance" that a company will try to fuck somebody 19 ways to Sunday out of. Countries like Germany spend markedly less than America does on health care for dramatically better results.

Nothing in America will change unless there is drug reimportation, the patents go back to 5 years instead of 12 and there is no health insurance "industry."

 

 

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 16:38 | 2465932 EclecticParrot
EclecticParrot's picture

That picture of Barack in doctor's garb is a bit creepy.  "Turn your head and cough" becomes "turn your head and scream."

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 21:47 | 2466473 ableman28
ableman28's picture

I think its important for advocates of major social change to take the first steps in the personal lives as an example to other citizens about the danger of dependence on public programs.

For a start I encourage all Tea Party members to do whatever it takes to get their elderly relatives immediately off Medicare.  Besides setting the right example it will also immediately lower government costs as Medicare is a demand disbursement program.  It seems entirely reasonable that the young should be helping their older relatives with medical expenses or contributing toward their insurance premiums. 

A good second step would be to encourage all of our older relatives to stop accepting social security.  This kind of social program damages the commitment of the elderly to keep working.  America needs every experienced individual in the labor force to help recover from the economic crisis we are in.

Tough love for ourselves, I know, but if we can't live by our own beliefs we can't expect others to accept them comfortably when we force them too.

 

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 00:00 | 2466666 spooz
spooz's picture

double posty, huh?  same crap X2.  You are a tool of the 1%, seeking to impoverish the sheeple so you can soak up more resources.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 21:47 | 2466474 ableman28
ableman28's picture

I think its important for advocates of major social change to take the first steps in the personal lives as an example to other citizens about the danger of dependence on public programs.

For a start I encourage all Tea Party members to do whatever it takes to get their elderly relatives immediately off Medicare.  Besides setting the right example it will also immediately lower government costs as Medicare is a demand disbursement program.  It seems entirely reasonable that the young should be helping their older relatives with medical expenses or contributing toward their insurance premiums. 

A good second step would be to encourage all of our older relatives to stop accepting social security.  This kind of social program damages the commitment of the elderly to keep working.  America needs every experienced individual in the labor force to help recover from the economic crisis we are in.

Tough love for ourselves, I know, but if we can't live by our own beliefs we can't expect others to accept them comfortably when we force them too.

 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 23:59 | 2466665 spooz
spooz's picture

Are you fucking kidding me?  Helping with medical expenses leads to bankruptcy pretty quickly unless you are part of the 1%.  We have the most expensive health care system in the world.  And your answer is to cut the old folks loose from any support?  And then to give up social security?  What, are they supposed to trade derivatives with their ZIRP decimated nesteggs?  

You need some karma to come your way so you can learn what tough love is all about.  You are a mouthpiece for the 1% who would choose to have an impoverished underclass to lord over.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 02:35 | 2466763 pissing_excellence
pissing_excellence's picture

Ow, I got a rubber pellet in my eye and it stings...some piece of shit fisher price toy flew at me in a parking lot playing airwolf.

.Whats the tempature in that plate mr. frog early 60's,probably like 63 or 4, hmmm folks?

http://youtu.be/M2TmpnGEozc

hahaha done and done.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 12:24 | 2467206 therearetoomany...
therearetoomanyidiots's picture

Enter to win dinner with Barack?   Really?  This guy is so low class he'll nickle and dime ever last loser willing to support him by offering a raffle for dinner?   Oy vey we have sunken so very low.

I know I'm a smart ass and mostly lurk on here but can you please get rid of these ads- they are nauseating and make me think I'm on Facebook?  

 

 

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:09 | 2469416 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

Anyone who pays for a dinner with ANY politician is a complete moron thereare....

I find it almost tragic that his POS advertises for it.

Think about it. It costs money to advertise to find people to pay money to pay for the advertising.

Asinine.

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