Guest Post: Is There No Shame?

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform

Is There No Shame?

“Never be afraid to raise your voice for honesty and truth and compassion against injustice and lying and greed. If people all over the world…would do this, it would change the earth. ” - William Faulkner

I wish I could believe William Faulkner’s advice was possible in the world we live in today. But sadly, I am losing hope in our civilization. We seem to have entered a death spiral with little likelihood of pulling out. Our society has become so degraded and our populace so apathetic and willfully ignorant, that I think we are too far gone to recover. Honesty, truth and compassion have been soundly defeated by injustice, lying and greed. Our technologically advanced society has become a stinking cesspool, devoid of humanity, common sense and morality. Those with the power and wealth who control our country do not concern themselves with quaint concepts like good and evil, right and wrong, or moral and immoral. Sociopaths see no obligation to society, humanity, or posterity. They only care about themselves, their wealth, their status, their reputation, and their control of others. They are incapable of feeling shame or remorse. They blindly march forward towards their own and society’s self-destruction.

Joe Paterno was fired by the Penn State Board of Trustees on Wednesday night as head football coach of Penn State. It was the first good decision that has been made in the last two decades by the leaders of Penn State. The man was told that his Defensive coordinator was seen in the locker room shower raping a 10 year old boy in 2002. He did not call the police and report this crime. He and the other top officials at Penn State brushed this crime under the rug, allowing at least seven more young boys to be raped by this monster. The 28 year old graduate assistant not only did nothing to stop the crime he witnessed, but he accepted a position as an assistant coach, knowing that Paterno and the Athletic Director never did anything to hold Sandusky accountable for his crime. Sandusky was still on campus working out as of last week. The actions of all the players in this disgusting example of how far our society has degenerated are enough to make someone lose all hope for humanity:

  • Jerry Sandusky creates a charitable organization so he can gain access to little boys. Multiple incidents are witnessed on campus from 1994 through 2002. A mother reports Sandusky to the Penn State police in 1998 and nothing is done by the men in the Administration. The investigation is dropped, but Tim Curley forces Sandusky to retire in 1999. It is clear that everyone in the top echelon of Penn State knew Sandusky was a deviant pedophile. But letting it become public would have been a black mark on the football program and could have reduced the huge profits generated by Paterno’s kingdom.
  • After his forced retirement he is still given access to the campus and locker room facilities. He is caught having anal sex with a 10 year old boy in the locker room shower by a 28 year old man, who chooses not to intervene and save the boy. Joe Paterno does the absolute minimum when informed of this horrific crime. After this crime is covered up by all the key men running the show at Penn State, it just becomes business as usual for Joe and his cronies.
  • Sandusky continues to rape little boys for the next eight years because of the cowardice and complete lack of morality exhibited by the men in high places at Penn State.
  • With the issuance of the grand jury report last week, the psychotic nature of these men was on display for the world to witness. In a stunning display of arrogance and hubris, Paterno and the President of Penn State announced their full support for the Athletic Director and VP of Finance who were arrested. These men did not think they did anything wrong. They clung to the fact that they adhered to the laws created by other men. In a despicable display, Joe Paterno led a cheer at a pep rally in front of his house with his arms raised in victory. At least eight boys had their lives ruined and Joe Paterno leads a cheer.
  • The Board of Trustees summoned the courage to fire Paterno and the President last night. In another display that makes me wonder about the future of our country, thousands of students rioted in support of Joe Paterno, breaking windows, turning over news vans, and starting fires. Are these young people incapable of critical thinking and are just driven by emotion and mindless rage? Can’t they distinguish between facts and lies? Do they care more about football than innocent children being raped?

I have been blind with rage for the last week as I’ve watched the powerful men of Penn State attempt to retain their power and reputations at the expense of truth, honesty, and accepting responsibility for their actions and willful inaction. As I’ve watched this tragedy unfold I was struck by the thought process of rich men in positions of power. They have huge egos and believe they are above the law. They think so highly of themselves they believe they can make the rules and ignore the laws which the little people must follow. They have no moral compass whatsoever. They cannot be shamed. The most despicable behavior by prominent men has been willfully overlooked because these men generate $50 million of profit per year for the university. Their sociopathic desire to protect their reputations and power has led to a scandal of such epic proportions that it will haunt Penn State forever and has permanently damaged the institution.

This is an institutional cancer that eats away at the fabric of our society. It is not isolated to Penn State. It is a societal sickness that threatens to overwhelm every facet of our lives. There is a constant thread that runs through every incident that comes to light. In 99% of the cases it is men protecting men. Money and greed always trump morality and truth. The exact circumstances can be observed in the priest abuse scandal that has rocked the Catholic Church in the last five years. Pedophile priests have existed within the Catholic Church for decades. The Penn State situation shows that pedophiles exist everywhere in our society. The bottom line is that they are sick men and need to be locked up and kept away from little boys. There is no more heinous criminal act than a grown man raping a little boy. Anyone who does this is pure evil and must be punished.

The Catholic Church’s wealth is almost beyond measurement. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world. The pope is one of the most powerful men on earth. Cardinals and bishops throughout the world wield tremendous influence over their flocks. As young Catholic boys you are taught that priests represent Jesus Christ on earth. They are treated with reverence and fear by little Catholic boys. Little Catholic boys would never question the motives of a priest. They are taught to obey, because a priest is the same as Jesus Christ. These beliefs allowed pedophile priests to prey on thousands of little boys around the world for decades with little or no backlash. Those crimes were horrific enough by themselves, but the actions of the bishops, cardinals and even the popes who have known about these crimes make it ten times worse. Again, powerful men will ignore rules, regulations, laws and simple human decency in order to protect their wealth, power, and reputations. Cardinals and bishops knew that priests were raping little boys and their solution was to transfer them to another parish where they could find fresh meat. The thought never entered their minds to turn these perverts in to the police. Their only concern was how a scandal would impact their beloved institution. Little boys were sacrificed at the altar of the Catholic Church by evil men.

The cover-up continues to this day. The Catholic Church uses the statute of limitations as their defense against the continuous stream of cases that continue to mount. They secretly pay out hundreds of millions to the victims as long as they promise to keep quiet. They use bankruptcy laws to close down parishes and avoid paying civil penalties for the crimes committed by its hierarchy. They hire public relations firms to create false and misleading stories designed to obscure the truth about the biggest criminal conspiracy in history. The powerful sociopathic men who were supposed to represent Christian teachings have destroyed the lives of thousands of boys in order to protect their institution. The end result is that in addition to the thousands of lives destroyed by the pedophile priests, hundreds of thousands of Catholics have lost faith in the leadership and have abandoned the church. The wealth these sociopaths attempted to protect has been eroded as donations have dried up and lawsuit payouts have mounted.

Not only have our educational and religious institutions failed us, but our financial and political institutions have spectacularly self-destructed over the last decade. Shockingly, these institutions have been run predominantly by men. At one time banks were stodgy institutions that abhorred risk and methodically made profits year after year by lending to people and businesses capable of paying them back. Investment firms were partnerships. If any one partner was to take an excessive risk, they could wipe out the personal wealth of the other partners. Therefore, they never took excessive risks or used excessive leverage. Their boring business model generated modest profits year after year. The officers of banks and investment houses were well compensated, but not excessively so. The leaders of these firms were children of the Great Depression. They understood bad times.

During the 1990's they were displaced by a new generation of leaders. This has not turned out well for our country. These psychopathic CEOs were given the green light by their fellow psychopaths in Congress and at the Federal Reserve to loot and pillage to their heart’s delight. This conspiracy of thieves broke down the barriers between traditional banking and gambling using excessive leverage. They captured the regulatory agencies that were supposed to police them and leveraged their bets 30 to 1. They created fraudulent mortgage instruments designed to lure the stupid and crooked. They marketed debt to anyone with a breath and ability to scratch an X on a piece of paper. They designed derivatives so complex that even their own Harvard MBAs couldn’t figure out how they worked. They bribed rating agencies into stamping a AAA credit rating on crap so toxic that they joked about the idiots they were selling it to. They shorted the very same derivatives they were selling to their clients. These psychopaths raked in hundreds of billions in fees, salaries and bonuses, while detonating a nuclear bomb on the worldwide financial system.

When their bets came up craps, they had the gall to hold the American people hostage for trillions in bailouts. Their fellow psychopaths in Congress gladly forked over the money. Rather than mend their ways, these evil men have returned to their excessive risk taking and continue to pay themselves billions in compensation, while the American middle class is smothered to death under mountains of debt. These evil Wall Street geniuses have shown no remorse as seven million people have lost their jobs and millions more have lost their homes due to the greed and avarice displayed on an epic scale.

Wall Street bankers exhibit the epitome of psychopathic behavior, showing lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness. Psychopaths are highly prone to antisocial behavior and abusive treatment of others. Though lacking empathy and emotional depth, they often manage to pass themselves off as average individuals by feigning emotions. These Wall Street bankers will never willingly accept responsibility for their actions. They continue to use their wealth and power to control the politicians in Washington DC and the misinformation propagated by the corporate media they control. They own and control the Federal Reserve and will print money until the whole system collapses in a spectacular implosion that destroys our financial system. They only care about their own wealth, influence and status. They have no shame.

When I consider all that is wrong in our society, I become despondent, angry and despairing for the future of our country. It seems that everyone in positions of power across the spectrum of education, religion, finance, and politics are psychopaths, bent upon self-destruction no matter the cost to society or unborn generations. Our nation has degenerated into an egocentric, self-loathing, vain, shallow excuse for a civilization. There is anger flaring up, but it is just as likely to be misdirected and misinformed. The lack of critical thinking skills and the overwhelming effects of media propaganda has so degraded the intelligence of the populace that when the system breaks down in the next few years, the masses will clamor for a savior rather than seeking truthful answers and willingly making the sacrifices required to get our nation back on track. This country will get what it deserves – a despotic ruler and a brutish civilization governed on the basest of principles. This is what happens when a society rewards lying and greed over honesty and compassion. There are consequences to actions and inactions alike. We’ve made our choice.

“By the skillful and sustained use of propaganda, one can make a people see even heaven as hell or an extremely wretched life as paradise.” - Adolf Hitler

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eisley79's picture

which ever tyler, let this tyler post, FAIL.  stick to the truth, and economics.  not bias and hearsay.

eisley79's picture

junk away cause you mad.  But while his points about society are correct, and his anger over pennstate legit.  Lots of this article is just personal opinion without fact. 

No amount of junking can turn FAIL to WIN.

Zerohedge and most of the tylers can do better. 

GeneMarchbanks's picture

'Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform'

So now you're up to speed.

eisley79's picture

whicever tyler let this tyler submit this, FAIL, now you are up to speed.

HCSKnight's picture

There will clearly be more things to come, let's hope not the "ring".

The piece above is very frustrating, filled with so many important truths, and so many falsehoods.

What is simply the root truth to all of it; the devolution of morality, replaced by moral relativism in which each person has a "personal relationship" with his god - himself.  That is how evil has grown to become a larger party of Western society's culture, and why there's so much confusion and blindness discerning between good, evil, and nothingness.


wisefool's picture

rehashed points from a tired old man:

The christ said. "Give unto ceasar what is ceasars." Mitt Romney wants to be Ceasar but he will not explain what he gave to previous Ceasars, because of his personal relationship with his tax attorney.

Bloviating aside. And back to the point of this here blog (economics) If this really is a "Big Two" football game (Democrats vs. Republicans) The fix is in. Romney gets the R nomination. Then explains that he never released his taxes until now because he wants to run a smaller government and Obama gets his second term because nobody will vote for a billionaire who pays 14% tax.

What are the odds in vegas for a Romney 2012 win?, and will uncle warren underwrite this one like he does for the PepsiCo billion dollar give aways like he has done in the past? I think not.

Ron Paul 2012.

Bicycle Repairman's picture

Let's not make a mountain out of a molehill.  I understand that juvenile ass rape at Penn State has been greatly reduced, over 40% since 2000. /sarc

But seriously, Quinn, you hit this one out of the park.  The implications for society at large are ominous.  And it's not just greed.  There is a "constituency" for this.  People who practice and condone this.  Society-wide they need to be rooted out.  By any means necessary.

wisefool's picture

birds of a feather.  i sincerely thank zerohedge for part of my re-education. But somethings I learned before are the same and just as valid with or without re-enforcement.

Oh regional Indian's picture

Catholic Church is the root of ALL current vileness visible on planet. ANd Sodomy is a big part of their story.


Rabbit Hole

TruthInSunshine's picture

Molesting or harming a child is one of the gravest sins of all.

If we don't insist on the strongest protection for the most vulnerable among us - children - and the strongest punishment for those who whether by pure evil or warped psychological infirmities would harm or molest them, then we fail as a society in one of our most basic obligations.

Screw the football and games.

If Paterno looked the other way, and others at Penn State did as well, they are as culpable as the accused.

Quinn is right.

Great analysis.

Oh regional Indian's picture

I'm sure folks have heard of Boystown.

It's a den of vipers, this Catholic Sodomizing Madhouse.


tion's picture

Franklin Scandal v2.0

Why add limiting labels like 'Catholic' when the problem is so much bigger than that? 

HCSKnight's picture

Because for these people it's not about the truth (e.g. they would be crusading against all the teaching of beastiality in schools, and they would be going after the "state" and "teachers union" over the ratio of secular school teachers who do the same - the ratio in secular K-12 is much higher than any religious institutions).

The fact is for all these people who attack the "Catholic Church", they simply, as Bishop Fulton Sheen said long ago, hate what they THINK the Catholic Church is.  Irionically, and sadly, the non-Catholic "Christians" in doing so they are fulfilling the whole "the church will be attacked" prophesy and show zero true Charity as their God commanded and defined. 

HCSKnight's picture

No evidence of delusion, insanity or siding with evil in that assertion Oh Regional Indian...

lotsoffun's picture

yes.  agreed.  as far as you can see.  and as far as i can see - in india 1 billion people with 900 billion of them TOTALLY FUCKED.  and you so fucking greedy - that you were already rich there and decided to come here and get richer (because compared to the american greed - from what i've seen on wall street - you guys eat us alive).  simple.  go back to where the f you came from.

really is that simple.  you add nothing here, just take.

didn't gandhi preach tolerance?  infact - check out recent disclosures about dear mr. the honorable reverent mr. gandhi.  he did bung holes.  which i have no problem with.  except - he lied about it.  truth.




merizobeach's picture

I'll actually consider voting if Ron Paul runs.  I'd be beyond shocked if he gets the R nomination; I might actually be afraid that he'd sold out behind closed doors because that's the only way I can see him getting the nod by the party.  (If he does that with the plan to stiff them later, then good on him, but he'd better do his own grocery shopping and cooking.)

There was an interesting suggestion here a couple months ago that he choose Peter Schiff as a VP; that's an interesting idea.  I had considered Kucinich before; that might draw some more D support.  I'd want Jim Rickards for Treasury Secretary.

Tell bernank to burn the building down on his way out the door.  :-)

Michael's picture

Here is where the pedophiles hone theri act;

The Cremation of Care - Enhanced Footage

Christophe2's picture

How about the banned documentary that links the HW Bush white house with a child prostitution ring + sadomasochism + drug abuse of said children?


Or how 'they' (Rockefeller foundations, etc.) have systematically weakened the laws that deal with child molesters, using 'science' to argue that there is low recidivism and that the children involved are not truly victims?


=> Everything we are seeing at Penn State is happening ON PURPOSE, for the NWO's 'benefit'.

buyingsterling's picture

Federal reserve chair: Jim Grant

Treasury: David Stockman

Defense: Kucinich

Housing and Urban Development: Block grant to Farakhan

HCSKnight's picture


>> has rocked the Catholic Church in the last five years.<<

not true, shows author's ignorance - it has gone on much longer, in fact it was a public scandal when Paterno was told about this pedophile

>> Pedophile priests have existed within the Catholic Church for decades. The Penn State situation shows that pedophiles exist everywhere in our society.<<

pedophiles have existed in every organization of man, throughout history - in fact they exist in a greater percentage in the K-12 education system, it's just the pockets arent deep enough for lawyers to go after an "institutional" law suit.

>> As young Catholic boys you are taught that priests represent Jesus Christ on earth.<<

absolutely 100% false, author is either extremely ignorant or a liar

>> They are taught to obey, because a priest is the same as Jesus Christ. <<

absolutely 100% false, author is either extremely ignorant or a liar

>>These beliefs allowed pedophile priests to prey on thousands of little boys around the world for decades with little or no backlash. <<

absolutely 100% false, author is either extremely ignorant or a liar

>>Those crimes were horrific enough by themselves, but the actions of the bishops, cardinals and even the popes who have known about these crimes make it ten times worse. <<

100% true

>> Cardinals and bishops knew that priests were raping little boys and their solution was to transfer them to another parish where they could find fresh meat. <<

pervision and twisting of the truth

>>Little boys were sacrificed at the altar of the Catholic Church by evil men.<<

emotional hyperbole

>> Not only have our educational and religious institutions failed us, but our financial and political institutions have spectacularly self-destructed over the last decade. <<

The American people are failing themselves. American has embraced relativism and humanism as its gods. Her institutions do not create her culture, her values, her good or evil; they merely reflect its soul. The author's emotional selfishness is a witness to these truths.

As for PSU/Paterno et. al., it is an extremely ugly symbol of the "Happy Valley" of America.


Imminent Crucible's picture

Jim Quinn is a lifelong Catholic and well acquainted with the Catholic Church, its teachings and history. He has written extensively about this issue in the past.

It is also a fact that the Catholic church covered up thousands of cases of child rape by pedophile priests, and simply transferred the guilty parties to new dioceses without punishment and without notifying the new diocese that the man was a child molester. The current Pope Benedict XVI, formerly known as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, admitted to being complicit in these coverups in the past.

I conclude that it is you that are ignorant and/or a liar.

HCSKnight's picture

1st, the fact Jim Quinn calls himself a Catholic does not make him a Catholic, nor a Catholic in "good standing".

2nd, I ask you... What is the "Catholic church" {sic}?  It is true that priests and non-priests did everything from cover-up to make errors of ignornace.  You and Jim clearly want to paint anything, and anyone, who associates themselves as "Catholic" as complicit in both act and spirit. 

3rd, Pope Benedict has never, not as Pope, not as a Cardinal, admitted to being complicit in covering up the things you mention or imply.

You are either gravely ignorant, or a liar.

Anytime you and or Jim would like to debate the truth of any of these things - off of ZH - I will be glad to show to do so.


JLee2027's picture

Well said


Who are we to judge God's Church?  

weinerdog43's picture

I am.  As is anyone else with a brain.

JLee2027's picture

Man judging works of God.  Oh, okay "brainless".

Mike2756's picture

If you want to believe, fine. you definitely don't need a money grubbing translater.

tyler's picture

Opinions aren't truth.  But if these douche bags at the top don't feel sick reading the first two paragraphs of this article, which is all I could stomach, they should be punched.  Sick fucks.

Ira Thurby-Wright's picture

"Anyone who does this is pure evil and must be punished."

So the War in Afghanistan, if not retribution for 9-11, must be to punish the sick tribal chiefs and war lords that among their other crimes regularly impose themselves upon little boys?

marsdefIAnCe's picture

this is an awfully long string of argument to be missing the obligatory note that dyncorp has been caught running kid prostitution rings repeatedly and remains the largest contractor for CPS in the united slaves of america

tarsubil's picture

For fucks sake. The world is run by evil. The world wasn't created to be run by evil.

marsdefIAnCe's picture

hey bro, cheer up, it only gets worse


obama biden OR osama bin hidin?





WonderDawg's picture

I think he was judging the works of the catholic church, rather than the works of God.

DaveyJones's picture

I love that slight slip don't you? The ultimate mind control. Once it crosses over and earns the label, it is beyond questioning. One catch of course, they get to throw the labels

pappacass's picture


Man your pretty much correct in your criticism of the article except in one aspect.  Now I don't know the ins and outs of how it all went down over there with you guys but here in Ireland those arsehole priests were moved off to other parishes as a matter of course.  Also this was all done with the knowledge, colusion, instigation and blessing of Cardinals and Bishops, a course of action that has been proven over here to go right up the ladder to Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger who was in charge of covering up this mess for the church.  It has also been proven over here that a small number of cops and politicos were involved too.  Our government has, and this is the only ballsy thing they've ever done, closed down out embassy in the Vatican in protest.

HCSKnight's picture


I dont pretend to speak to individual situations, parishes, diocese, etc., but rather the truth.  Be more than happy to be shown the proof of Cardinal Razinger or anyone else's responsibility.  Virtually everytime such assertions are run to ground, it is found that they are opinion and not fact or proof.

For example, there's a huge difference between being the guy in charge - say President (Pope) - and the Attorney sent by a State's Attorney General (Bishop) to investigate something; that's a valid comp - each diocese/Bishop is their own legal entity.  Furthermore within the Catholic Church the Pope is the head regarding Faith and Morals; it gets more legally nuanced when it comes to Canon Law, which is the law the Pope and priests are bound to follow.

Trust me, as a decidedly conservative Roman Catholic, I am far more angry with the failures and evil's that have crept in the Catholic Church than I can express.   But all institutions of man, throughout all of man's history have experienced, and will continue to experience, such things. 

The measure of proof and truth is not an easy one, especially when it requires knowing the hearts and intentions of men.  Too often the definitions and criteria of proof and truth are so different between men that they become irreconcilable mountains between men.  Colusion, instigation and blessings are likewise difficult; especially when during the period of most of the incidents the world had embraced "free love" and other deviant and error filled psychological theories of man that effected the way virtually all institutions looked at questions of sexual right and wrong, and questions of sexual sickness and health.

Today, we have NY school systems talking about teaching that beastiality exist to children in sex ed class... where's the outrage?  It is certainly not heard on ZH, and shouldnt.  Just as this "Is there no shame" piece lost its way to ZH.  But where's the outrage on ZH for such things?  .... ZH is far more anarchistic than filled with those who seek the truth or to build something great; e.g. a nation and economic system founded on truth.  But it is a great site to find information that Wall Street doesnt want you to know, and that bitchz like CNBC and the MSM ignore.  So in that respect, it's a great site.

The circus and bread of Rome is not a old myth, and the sounds of the coliseum can be heard in the world.

Btw, AMDG isnt my name it stands for Ad maiorem Dei gloriam, the Jesuit's took it as their motto.  I'm Jesuit educated, and very very pissed off at their intellectual and spiritual behavior over the past 20 years....  And as a conservative Roman Catholic, lay much of the blame much of the US political/cultural breakdown at the feet of the US Catholic Church and Jesuits; they have had a huge influence on the Democratic Party and the Socialist/Social Justice poision that has infected America.


tarsubil's picture

"decidedly conservative Roman Catholic"

Funny, you use four words to describe your faith yet Christian didn't make the cut.

Someone commented on those obsessed with ritual and not grace are ultimately in it for power and, I guess, raping young boys. Your long winded "oh, it's complicated" and "what is truth anyway?" bullshit and your deflection to what others are doing amounts to just handwaving. Have fun standing side by side with Ratslinger when the Almighty comes knocking.

HCSKnight's picture


That's right, because the term Christian, especially today has so many different meanings to different people.  Where as calling oneself Roman Catholic does not, the Roman Catholic Church through its official teachings, Dogmas and non-Dogmas, is much more defined.  As such even people like you can go and read for yourself what that means; P.S. I highly recommend you do NOT ask a priest, especially a priest in America, because far too many are gravely afflicted with moral and intellectual error and confusion.

As for the rest of your comment, it displays your gross ignorance and gravely sick spirit as a, I assume, "christian". 

Here's one to ponder Tarsubil, how many stones have been picked up on this board and thrown, and what kind of stones are they?

I have not thown the evil and hate filled stones, but rather have decided to squat down and draw in the sand some messages of Truth and asked various forms of who without sin is casting stones?

Make no mistake, I do believe that justice does demand action on the part of men.  But the justice of man is not the same as saying one is worthy of condemnation.

You might want to go look in a mirror.

Sean7k's picture

Why would someone want to get involved with a religion where its' front line priests are considered unacceptable for advice and consideration? Where and when did Pope Benedict issue this statement? 

If the priests are" gravely afflicted with moral and intellectual error and confusion" after years of study and practice, what are the chances for the believer?

It would be better to "read for ourselves"? 

Do you listen to yourself? 

"I have not thrown the evil and hate filled stones" (those that disagree with me) "but rather, have decided to squat down ( with the heathen rabble) "draw messages of truth" (well I can cross the off the list, the truth is here!).

HCSKnight's picture


re "Why would someone want to get involved with a religion where its' front line priests are considered unacceptable for advice and consideration? " - Well, you'll have to come up with a specific to create an answerable question; otherwise you've simply created an opinion/assertion with a question mark....

re "Where and when did Pope Benedict issue this statement?" - you should go back to your school and demand your money back; define "this", then you will have a question.

re "If the priests are" gravely afflicted with moral and intellectual error and confusion" after years of study and practice, what are the chances for the believer?" - EXCELLENT, finally a real question, and a good one too.  Well in the answer lies why the Catholic Church is much different than, and IMO a much better defender of the Faith than most Protestant churches.  First of all, it's not the years of study and practice but the quality; e.g. those poor and decieved believers in Communisim; think China, FSU & North Korea.  So it's really about did they get a proper formation in the seminary; sadly many did not.  Though that does not mean all the education they received was in error; the fact is most of their poor formation centers around the nexus of "Social Justice".   So where do you find the Catholic Answers, simple - the Catechism of the Catholic church and the official teachings put out by the Pope's via Encyclials; be careful however, one must understand there's a difference between teaching that is Dogma and Doctrine, and teaching that is a priests opinion and thoughts.  In the former you will find the official teachings of the Catholic Church; and even then only those declared infallible are considered involuable.  All other teachings are not "unchangable".  You may disagree, but at least in going to those sources, and this is the important part most miss, then and only then are you hearing the Authentic Catholic Church teaching.  Priests, they are well intentioned.  But they are in the end just men. 

IMO, then need to step away from all the "Social Justice" work and go back to focusing soley on the Sacraments.  Their ignorance as men is creating far more confusion and error than their words bring to the questions and issues; it is the job of the Bishops to speak on such matters - and even they at times fail, all people are human.

 re: >>"It would be better to "read for ourselves"?<< - this is a classic question, often used to mislead people.  First, the answer depends upon the reader; an atheist, a child, an adult Christian, an adult Hindu, a very poorly educated person, etc. would all see and understand the words differently would they not?  Now the argument is God, for the Christian who has "truly turned himself over to Christ", through the Holy Ghost ensure the person would see and understand what they are supposed to understand for where they are in their spiritual life.  Such assertions can not be proven, or disproven.  However, what can be shown beyond a reasonable doubt for anyone who is truly open to knowing Christ's plan for His Church on earth is that "Sola Scriptura" was not the way God intended for man to be revealed the fullness of His Truth.  To assert otherwise firmly shows the ignorance or false intention of the one making such an assertion. 

re: >> Do you listen to yourself?   "I have not thrown the evil and hate filled stones" (those that disagree with me) "but rather, have decided to squat down ( with the heathen rabble) "draw messages of truth" (well I can cross the off the list, the truth is here!). << - thanks for making so clear your true intention to distort what I said.


Sean7k's picture

So, you engage in a semantic dance. How quaint. Typical response from someone that cannot defend their own statements.

Next, so everyone is supposed to get a rigorous education from a qualified seminary? Something they may not realize until they have completed their studies? Unbelieveable. Again, you fail to provide an answer of any value.

Then insult the argument by referring to being misleading. That is what you do when you have already lost the argument- what no debate 101 at seminary?

Like I said, you are an intellectual coward. Incapable of defending your statements.  


DaveyJones's picture

I'm a former catholic and a former prosecutor and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It could be plain old denial (which is more than common in child rape), it could something worse, but it is not good for catholics, not good for the church, and not good for children. The very reason the church has had to pay out amazingly large amounts of money and even sell property is because of their systemic coverup, a system which saw no national or diocesan borders let alone ANY religious order.     

HCSKnight's picture

Your admittal as a "former catholic" shows your biast, and your poor writing, argument, and logic shows why you are a "former" prosecutor...


tarsubil's picture

Tell me, have you thrown any stones? What a total fraud you are. Have you noticed that no one is buying it either?

jeff montanye's picture

horseshit.  the man at the top of the organization gets the gravy for the good and the seppuku for the bad.  

Sean7k's picture

Nice to hear from a Catholic "judge". Every religion needs a referee that can say when someone belongs and not... It appears Benedict was involved. 

Of course, I was raised a Catlicker, certifiable, but would never have anything to do with a church that has committed the crimes against humanity that Rome has spawned. It was finding out that the wafers and wine were changed into the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ that leaves me quesy- no cannibalism for me thanks. 

Get over your religion. They are vehicles for the accumulation of power and influence. In the exercise of power and influence, immoral acts will be contenanced and kept quiet. 


HCSKnight's picture

Thanks for the perfect example of ignorance and distortion that claims "proof".

Here's the opening from the very unbiased >>The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock a California priest with a record of sexually molesting children, citing concerns including "the good of the universal church," according to a 1985 letter bearing his signature.  The correspondence, obtained by The Associated Press, is the strongest challenge yet to the Vatican's insistence that Benedict played no role in blocking the removal of pedophile priests during his years as head of the Catholic Church's doctrinal watchdog office.  The letter, signed by then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, was typed in Latin and is part of years of correspondence between the diocese of Oakland and the Vatican about the proposed defrocking of the Rev. Stephen Kiesle, who pleaded no contest to misdemeanors involving child molestation in 1978.  The Vatican confirmed Friday that it was Ratzinger's signature and said it was a typical form letter used in laicization cases.<<

re >> "The future Pope Benedict XVI resisted pleas to defrock ... citing concerns including "the good of the universal church,"<< -  clearly Huffington and Sean are ignorant of what defrock means; it is a legal status within the Catholic Cannon Law.  There are LAWS within the Catholic Church that priests, Bishops and even the Pope must follow - btw, these laws, far older than any current Western laws are the root orgin of Western laws.  The laws were put in place to protect priests and Catholic laity from unjust administrative actions of priests, Bishops, Popes, etc.  There are Canconical processes and laws which must be followed.  That is what the Pope was doing, and what he meant by "for the good of" the church.  Just as ANY one who believes no one is above the law, or above the protections afforded in the US Constitution.  So again, another one who claims to be very knowledgeable and has proof has only proved the opposite of both.

Hence why the Vatican confirmed it was a typical form letter used in laicization cases. 

@ Sean: Do you claim to be a Christian?  If so your "It was finding out that the wafers and wine were changed into the ACTUAL body and blood of Christ that leaves me quesy- no cannibalism for me thanks." is common, in fact it goes all the way back to Christ.  When Christ said until you eat of my body and drink of my blood you will not have life within you (it's in the Gospel, go look it up - not even most Protestant churches have had the courage to create a lie by removing or re-wording it); when Christ said these words the Gospel says many upon hearing this walked away.  Okay, so like you they walked away from Christ - for whatever reason they did is somewhat irrelevant.  The critical fact is this, Christ didnt say "stop, you misunderstood me".  Feel free to go look what He did and said next.  But here's the problem for ANY Christian who denys the Catholic Dogma of the actual body and blood of Christ.  Christ didnt stop those who walked away the first time.  Christ knew what they believed He said because they said it to the others present; e.g. "this guys nuts, I'm out of here".  IF they misunderstood Christ, Christ would have tried to stop them.  Christ did not.  You dont have to believe.  You can walk away, for whatever reason.  But if you claim to be a Christian, who believes in the New Testament.... I think you have an understanding and belief you need to face logically.  You may not feel comfortable with what the logic says, but you can not believe only part of the actual body and blood of Christ part of the Gospel. 

And no, I do not have to "get over" religion (btw, it's not my religion - again showing your need to always make things personal and about you as your god).


Don Birnam's picture

Crucible speaks the truth. Indeed, in the Commonwealth of Virginia, the Roman Church vigorously opposed legislation which had been discussed that would require priests who have been convicted of sexual crimes with young children - I stress the past tense; this law would apply to those already having been adjudicated guilty - to be registered as every other deviant felon, guilty of the same crime(s): as a registered sex offender, and inclusion in the database which bears this very name.

Diocesan opposition. Why would this be ? Alas, a rhetorical question, already answered by Mr. Quinn.