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Guest Post: Those Terrorists We See in the Mirror… They Are Us

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Submitted by Ben Tanosborn

Those Terrorists We See in the Mirror… They Are Us

Some of us were brought into political adulthood reading Walt Kelly’s masterful creation, Pogo, the lovable character living in the Okefenokee Swamp of Georgia.  From dialogue used in that comic strip, many were the quotes that attained temporary or even permanent fame, but one topped them all: “We have met the enemy and he is us.”  And Kelly’s reference point was not only the environment but his belief that we are… all of us, responsible for our myriad pollution: public, private and political.

A quote that couldn’t be more apropos to our times, and our resistance to accept that one fact which is just as important today as it was in a cartoon a half century ago.  That resistance was experienced last Tuesday, September 13, during a quasi-debate among Republican contenders for the party’s nomination to the presidential elections next year.  Among the eight candidates on stage was (R) Rep. Ron Paul, a long time legislator and the baton carrier for the Libertarian wing of the Republican Party.  Ron Paul is definitely not a politician in contention to represent his party given his criticism of the existing bipartisan foreign policy and his anti-war stance.  And he knows it! 

In answering one of the questions, and given an opportunity to expound on his criticism of US foreign policy which makes America the policeman of the world – according to him, the congressman brought to light in a very articulate and unemotional manner the reasons why the people in the Middle East are so upset with us; to many in the audience, giving in to the rationale used by Osama Bin Laden in creating al Qaeda.  How would Americans feel, he gave as an example, if they were under occupation by China and hundreds of thousands of Americans had died in the process – referring to the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who died as a consequence of the US invasion.

Booing from the audience didn’t allow the congressman to finish his sentences.  Ron Paul, who is a physician by training, was being honest and stating his convictions.  And more than moralizing, his argument was one of true fiscal conservatism, giving an account of the waste in wars and the military, including the example of building an American embassy in Iraq at a cost of one billion dollars, a cost greater than that of the entire Vatican, he claimed – one assumes he meant just the buildings without any works of art or manuscripts.  The congressman made a point of differentiating between budgeting for defense and budgeting for the military; the military being the [imperial] forces scattered in 900 bases throughout the world.

It was the first time that I had experienced seeing an American politician of that stature, Republican or Democrat, venture into that never-never land of criticism of the land of exceptionalism.  It just isn’t done!  Of course, Ron Paul’s was rebuked by his fellow aspirants to the presidency, the hatchet given to an ultra-right dunce (Santorum) who brought in America’s always virtuous behavior dealing with the [infidel] world. 
Ron Paul’s statements of wisdom, particularly since coming from the Right, well the Fiscal Right, was certainly worth the price of the time investment I made; and it made up, as far as I am concerned, for the corrosive situation of CNN joining the Tea Party to conduct the event.  Politics, the media, wealth and power… they are all enmeshed in this nation that we proclaim to be free and democratic.

Two weeks before, the results of a “comprehensive” poll by the Pew Research Center had made some analysts conclude that few Muslims feel US alienation.  Actually, the resulting figures can be interpreted quite differently and in the opposite direction, almost half experiencing some form of harassment in the past year or being singled out for government surveillance.  It was not a pretty picture, and it may actually be worse if the survey was not conducted under the proper statistical and operations research disciplines.  [Comprehensive in that the survey had 1,033 respondents, the highest number in a Pew survey on that subject – although we are not told how the sampling was made… whether from the random Muslim population across the US, or if there was sampling concentration in ethnic-ghetto communities, biasing the results.]

To add more fuel to the fire, Danger Room [] just published FBI training material which teaches agents that mainstream Muslims, not just extremists, are violent and radical… and that America and Islam are necessarily in conflict.

Just as Pogo determined that we are our own enemy, we could also see ourselves as being our own terrorists.  That is, if we dare look in the mirror.  The Tea Party audience on September 13 was not quite ready to do just that.


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Sat, 09/17/2011 - 11:55 | 1679732 EdwardTeach
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Just as Pogo determined that we are our own enemy, we could also see ourselves as being our own terrorists.  That is, if we dare look in the mirror.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:20 | 1679784 Missing_Link
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To add more fuel to the fire, Danger Room [] just published FBI training material which teaches agents that mainstream Muslims, not just extremists, are violent and radical… and that America and Islam are necessarily in conflict.

The FBI is exaggerating, but it's fundamentally right.  Orthodox Islam is fundamentally extremely violent.  Anybody who's bothered to actually read the Koran and the sunnahs knows this.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:39 | 1679852 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Orthodox Islam is fundamentally extremely violent. Anybody who's bothered to actually read the Koran and the sunnahs knows this.


Words on paper. Nothing more. When reading the declaration of Independence, words let people think of freedom and justice.

But it is a well known fact that the US started as a slaver nation and had a great colonial run afterwards.

Those religious books tell about people who lived one thousand years...

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:01 | 1679928 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

AnAnonymous said.

Those religious books tell about people who lived one thousand years...

Absolutely correct ! 

Take a look at this web site from the internet of 1000 years ago.....

LOL !!!!

Agreed with the comment of America though.  We still are a slaver nation using's just done through the mechanism of global capitalism and global wage arbitrage.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:44 | 1680136 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

US Soldier shooting at his own shadow in the shape of bin laden:


Bin Laden is created by US from her foreign policy and then US spends even more money to "fight terrorism". Politicians win on both sides. tax payers fund special interests on both sides (AIPAC and oil companies) .



Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:26 | 1680220 cynicalskeptic
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BinLaden was used by the US and Saudis to funnel money to the jihadist effort fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan.  There are credible reports that BinLaden was on the US payroll at the time of 9/11 helping the US train Urghurs for the US to serve as proxies for US influence in Western China.  'AlQuaeda' - 'the list' was originally drawn up as a way to keep track of the outside jihadists - recruited in part with US backing and support- for the fight against the Soviets in Afghanistan.  It was NOT an organized 'terrorist' group in the way it is now portrayed.

This would not be ther first time the CIA and black ops types were using and protecting people who were 'playing both sides' and foghting the US.  The 'blind sheik' - involved in the 1993 WTC bombiong was being protected by the CIA (he'd helped recruit jihadists for Afghanistan) while the FBI was looking for him.

The whole 'enemies of my enemy are my friend' meme has NEVER been a good basis for any alliance.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:38 | 1680449 Troll Magnet
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Missing_Link wrote:

The FBI is exaggerating, but it's fundamentally right.  Orthodox Islam is fundamentally extremely violent.  Anybody who's bothered to actually read the Koran and the sunnahs knows this.

So, I suppose Bible is the most peaceful fairy tale in the world of people who worship what they are told to worship?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:12 | 1680532 AldousHuxley
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Bible says " Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear.  Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ."  (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)


religion = method of control over uneducated masses using fear of unknown (death, natural disasters, etc.) to bring about order in society


Non of the elites belive in that crap but wants everyone else to believe in it in order to maintain their elite status quo. Jews, Christians, Muslims, etc. same bullshitters as politicians.


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:16 | 1680545 DosZap
DosZap's picture


 Nearly 2000 yrs ago, I am sure that's exactly what the Apostle Paul had in mind.

There is a difference between religion, and Christianity.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:56 | 1680621 AldousHuxley
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There is a difference between Christ (source of truth) and Christians (living example of hyporcracy)


There are more moral banksters than true Christians.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 18:13 | 1680646 DosZap
DosZap's picture


So you broad base throw all Christians in the Hypocritic can?.

Only ONE was without sin, and all Christian are hypocrites at times, some more than others.

As for you bankster statement, you must be claiming to be YHWH, as only HE could know that for certain.(if it's just your opinion then say so),because you cannot know that.

Or, your claiming to be GOD.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 18:39 | 1680690 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

The FACT of the matter is, NO ONE knows if there is God or whether this world we're living in is in fact hell.  If you want to believe what some people wrote 2000 years ago based on literatures and characters that have been written about over and over again for centuries prior to Jesus's "arrival" on the scene, and then revised over and over again since by HUMAN BEINGS, then that's your choice.  I just prefer to live by my own moral compass without all the cajoling, begging for money and guilt trips associated with organized religions.  This world would be a much better place if people started beliving in themselves and each other than some tin God some assholes created to make you conform to their agenda.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 02:59 | 1681421 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Well said, TM. You stopped the auto de fe before it got started. The hooded men are putting the stakes away.

"NO ONE knows if there is God." it seems to me that's exactly the way God wants it. Making His presence known was the birth of hypocrisy.
But it was smart to make Himself known only by hearsay in ancient tomes. If everybody knew He existed for a fact, either the worthless would be lined up with the worthy, elbowing their way to the front of the line or we would be living in an ant colony.

If one's moral compass is true, one will enjoy the same rewards as the most pious and devout Christian, Jew, Muslim, or Buddhist.

And as far as an afterlife is concerned, I'm still waiting for a traveller from that undiscovered country to return with some digital pix.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 20:39 | 1683295 Wild tree
Wild tree's picture


But God has made his presence known. He led the Israelites by a cloud during the day and fire by night away from their Egypt bondage, he has a sense of humor as described in Daniel 5, when he wrote on the wall with a hand and scared King Belshazzar so bad he wet his robes, Mene, Mene, Tekel Upharsin meaning: Mene - God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end, Tekel - you have been weighed in the balances and found wanting, Upharsin -  your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and Persians.


You can't see air, but without breathing it in, you die; you can't make your heart beat, but if it doesn't, you die; you can't see a bell's vibration without amplification, but you hear it’s music when struck. You can't see the number of galaxies that inhabit the universe, but they are wondrous indeed as they are populated each with millions of stars; each galaxy with it’s own gravity well. One of the greatest thinkers of the 20th century; Albert Einstein wrote that God does not play dice with the universe. I also think that there is a rhyme and reason that governs all light, and darkness. Unfortunately, we only see through a glass darkly.


I read today the things that happened 2,000 years ago to Jesus Christ. I see the people of today back then, minus the conveniences and sarcasm. His answers to all their questions are the sanest and balanced of any I have ever read, and reading is my hobby. Yeshua's words resonate within me; they vibrate as truth that is so lacking in this world of ours.  Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6


From 2 Peter 3: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.


No I can't see God, but I read his word and feel his love. Yes, there will be those in these latter days who will try to hide and beg mountains to fall on them to hide them from their judgment given by an angry God. But it is your choice, to accept or reject him. Black or white, pass or fail. Your choice. Choose wisely.   

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 00:27 | 1683680 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Wild tree
SheHunter correctly points out that religious discussions are more appropriate in other venues.

Before you can believe in God, you must observe Him. The best evidence of God is empirical and not a priori. While the writings of the ancients is beautiful and occasionally true, it is no substitute for the a posteriori. Although I often quote the literary parts of Bible, my faith derives entirely from my experience and observations and nothing else.
Sorry SheHunter

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 18:40 | 1680691 Wild tree
Wild tree's picture


I agree with you that Christ is truth, then why eviscerate those who try to walk in his pattern? All fail, but the effort in trying is the gauge with which the righteous judge will measure.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 18:17 | 1686357 AldousHuxley
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What would Jesus do when he comes back to earth?

Jesus would send 99% of "Christians" to hell.....where road to hell is paved with good intentions my friend.


Christ is not truth. Earth is not flat. Meaning of your life is not to serve a diety, but for you to be happy. There is no afterlife so demand that you are given equal opportunity to live your life to the fullest as much as a trust fund baby.







Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:00 | 1681264 hbjork1
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For background sufficient to reliably interpret biblical truths, the writings of Dr.Bart Ehrman (University of North Carolina) startomg with "Misquoting Jesus".   I am sure that no one on the board wants to embarras themselves by misquoting Jesus.  He was a product of Moody Bible Institute" but not a fundamentalist.  He has spent his professional life studying the acient texts, effects of translation on content and has much to add to anyone with questions instrested in correct interpretation of the translations that we currently use.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:04 | 1681269 hbjork1
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For background sufficient to reliably interpret biblical truths, the writings of Dr.Bart Ehrman (University of North Carolina) starting with "Misquoting Jesus".  He was a product of Moody Bible Institute" but not a fundamentalist.  He has spent his professional life studying the ancient texts,the effects of translation on content and has much to add to anyone with questions interested in correct interpretation of the translations that we currently use.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:04 | 1681270 hbjork1
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For background sufficient to reliably interpret biblical truths, the writings of Dr.Bart Ehrman (University of North Carolina) starting with "Misquoting Jesus".  He was a product of Moody Bible Institute" but not a fundamentalist.  He has spent his professional life studying the ancient texts,the effects of translation on content and has much to add to anyone with questions interested in correct interpretation of the translations that we currently use.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 19:13 | 1680742 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture


No wonder you use Aldous Huxley as your much wasted intelligence and so little wisdom.

That passage has been used for millenium to "prove" that Christians approve of slavery.

But if you had actually read the Bible and the multitude of commentary from both the right and the left you would have realized long ago that that passage from Ephesians by the apostle Paul was an implied admission to the truth of the world...which was ROME ruled it and there was no defeating it by calling for an end to slavery or for a rebellion.  Sparticus had already been killed and the charnel house that became the Appian Way was still legend.

Plus Jesus had already rebuked Peter when he struck one of the guards and cutting off his ear, because Jesus has not come to be a revolutionary leader of the Jewish people who would lead a revolt to freedom.  Which is one of the reason's he was crucified.

No my friend....what Peter was implicitly saying was what the Who sang a few decades ago.....

"Meet the new boss....same as the old boss"    Won't Get Fooled Again.

Oh.....and before you pull scripture out of context....make sure you do it around people who are equally ignorant of the Bible.....for you see....I am not......

Ephesians 6:9    And, masters, do the same things to them, and give up threatening, knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:08 | 1680907 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

@ Jumbotron 19:13

After reading your thoughtful and articulate comment here, I feel terrible about a snarky remark I directed at you yesterday. I will do my best to refrain from that in future.

I have a more Siddharthic and empirical approach to God, but your words remind me that God is not just for this religion or that, but every last one of us.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:57 | 1682103 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

An honor given from an honorable man...or woman...hard to tell behind the sack..  :)

And to tell you the truth...I'm not at all sure what your snarky comment was.  But seeing as how I one poster said a while back....McSnarky.....I am fully aware that snark begets snark and am prepared to handle it.

But I also take your apology as an admonishment.  I should temper my zeal with widsom more often.

It is very hard to do around such ignorance.  But as Morpheus was very patient with those he was trying to make aware of the Matrix...I should be more so as well....for far too many their ignorance is their truth. 

And a truth assailed will be defended.....even if that truth is false.  Which of course defeats the purpose of reorienting someone to the truth.

Thank you again, bid the soldier. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 18:18 | 1683007 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture


Thank you for your kind words. I'm sure I don't deserve half of them. Well, maybe 60%. I have already tucked them away in my wallet where my money used to be.

Coherent intelligence like yours leaves nothing to be desired. Except a charming name.


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 18:02 | 1686316 AldousHuxley
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Christianity = method of control.

there is no approval of slavery, corpratism, communism, etc. There is only "Shut up, sit down, and do what you are told...from elite's biased interpretation of the bible"

Christians = slaves keeping others slaves down from questioning those in power


How many elites do you really think are "real Christians"? kings, presidents, wall st execs, liars on tv, celebrities, war profiteering generals, etc? So when non Christians are challenging the status quo, all Christians do is pull them down.

Kings used say their power is devine and given to them by god, when they were simply born into position of power.



Nature of religious people is that they fear the truth so they don't question the propaganda. And then there are few who exploit this fact, call themselves "Christians" to get the masses votes, money, following, etc.


Real good people do not need religious justification/reward in "heaven"/brainwashing to do good.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 12:11 | 1681960 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

When I first read about BinLaden I thought "This guy is providing the same function that the State of Israel does. He is a false flag around which the anti-House of Saud revolutionaries rally and forget their desire to end the monarchy..

Just as hatred of Israel trumped the hatred of the Saudi Monarchy, so BinLaden gathered younger Saudi malcontents and provided them with pacifiers - so to speak - in Afganistan and other locals outside of Saudi Arabia, (with the exception of the American presence there) and thereby dampened revolutionary pressure against the throne.

After 911 his value to the West was the same as Emmanual Goldstein's was to Oceania. I know Minitrue says he was killed last May, but why do I think he is enjoying his golden years in a villa at Cap d'Antibes?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 20:20 | 1680826 bid the soldier...
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Bin Laden = Emmanuel Goldstein

Everything else is superfluous.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:04 | 1681105 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture


"'s just done through the mechanism of global capitalism..."

FWIW, it isn't capitalism, it's mercantilism, and it's been that way since 1865 when inside trader Father Abraham and the feds institutionalized with the sword that they could fund "internal improvements" (services provided by their constituent suite of elitist cronys) with monies extracted from the public, primarily the middle class, and, again, by force.  I guess it was all about slavery after all, except that it is everyone except the elites in velvet covered chains.  Got a cold chisel?  I have a hammer.  There's an election over a year away.  ron paul 2012

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:28 | 1679998 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I'm from the UK. I don't care if Muslims feel alianation here (or in the US, or in western europe). In fact I hope they do. I'm all for banning the viel - as in france. They should be made as unwelcome as possible. We, secular westerners, are under no obligation to be over-run with backward thinking, women repressing, music hating, literature hating fundamentalists who want to outbreed us and take our land and our governments handouts.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:18 | 1680099's picture

I'm in favor of banning the UK.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:32 | 1680117 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"I'm from the UK"

that must explain why you're so good at spelling English words.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:17 | 1680202 malikai
malikai's picture

Most BNP members are.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:01 | 1680325 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

Oy! Why just the other day I watched a lorry shed it's load on the M25 while I was waiting for the lift to take me to my mates flat to watch the football match on the tele over a few pints of larger while we complained about the NHS and how our favourite chipper just closed.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 18:45 | 1680698 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Hear hear!  Multiculturalism FAILED all over the world both socially and economically.  If you want to live among people of different cultures, you can actually pack up, get on a plane and move there.  All societies function best when there is a common belief (in race, ethnicity, religion or nationality) they can all rally around.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 21:44 | 1683435 Whatsamatta_u
Whatsamatta_u's picture

Europe is being taken over because it became secular.   

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:15 | 1680353 ninja-ish
ninja-ish's picture

actually, i don't think you've read the entire Quran. or the Hadith (that you're calling sunnahs).  because i have. maybe i'm the only one on this site that has. and whenever violence is mentioned, it is used in the context of necessary violence for purposes of self-defense, justice, and order, and it always encourages restraint in the use of force. Islam explicitly condemns targeting civilians with military force. also, violence is mentioned in the context of governmentally-approved use of force, not individual muslims acting on their own impulses.

I've also read the entire Torah. you should go read them both for yourself and compare the two. you'd be surprised at the contrasts. and no, picking out one-liner verses doesn't count as evidence, unless it fits with the context. especially with the Quran. it's a unique text, and must be studied as a unified whole (if you're actually trying to understand it)

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:05 | 1680514 Inspector Bird
Inspector Bird's picture

You have a very high opinion of yourself to think that you may be the only one on the site who has read the Quran.  It's an accomplishment, but hardly one to brag about, even in this context.


I agree that it must be studied as a unified whole (not unlike the Bible).  But try telling people who study either that this is the method to employ.


Not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do.  Like telling people to read "The Wealth of Nations".  Lots claim to.  Few actually have.

Or Woodstock.  I was there.  Sure I was.  Actually, I was.  I was 7 and I was 2 towns over, visiting my cousins.  So I was there.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 18:18 | 1680654 DosZap
DosZap's picture


"But try telling people who study either that this is the method to employ."

That's is the only way anyone can ever come to the real knowledge of the truth.

If you pick and choose,you will never get it.Also, the natural man can never get it,unless the Spirit is in him.


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:44 | 1679868 muckraker
muckraker's picture

Have you ever read the bible? Now that is a violent sacred text! Anyone who has bothered to actually read the bible knows this. You would never know it though when you hear (Christian) fundamentalist types whining about how violent Islam is. Orthodox Christianity is even more violent. Once again, our tax dollars being put to good use; institutionalized bigotry. 

Terrorism is a tactic not an ideology.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:53 | 1680049 richard in norway
richard in norway's picture

just reading what god told josiah to do to the cannanites is enough, makes hitler seem like a nice guy

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:51 | 1680153 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

Effective though, I don't see many Canaanites running around nowadays.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 18:58 | 1680716 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Christianity and the Bible itself evolved over 2,000 years.  They continue to evolve as churches adapt and enforce "New Rules" and a whole bunch of other bullshit yet Christians are the first ones to deny the theory of evolution when it comes to science.  WTF...And the Old Testament was written by a Jew who wanted to brainwash and control all the non-Jews who have persecuted Jewish people for a long time (I forget the exact chain of events as it's been awhile since I've studied history of Christianity, but that's the crux of what happened - look it up!).  Christianity was basically penned by a Jew who wanted revenge for his people's "suffering."  

Oh yeah, our founding fathers were ALL theists.  They weren't a bunch of Christian lunatics who sat around and preached Jesus all day long.  In fact, it was quite the contrary.  


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 22:49 | 1681152 Ckierst1
Ckierst1's picture

OK!  Rise and shine!  I think you mean "deist."  Ben Franklin said that beer was proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.  I think I'll have one.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 01:56 | 1681383 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

How about a warning from the Surgeon General on the cover of all religious Books:

Misinterpretation of the contents of this book can lead to self-righteousness, holier than thouness and terminal hatred of practically everyone else.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 09:47 | 1681717 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Religions - all religions -  were created by humans for one reason:  most humans are terrified of death and cannot comprehend the thought of no longer existing after death.  We are born.  We live.  We die.  We are no more after death.  Say it aloud 10 times.  There.  Was that really so scary?  ZH is at its best when readers are not expounding this and that self-righteous religious belief.  Let's stick to the market and politcs.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 19:25 | 1683141 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

Some traders who lose a fortune in the stock market, want to know that the same God who took it away, will give it all back and then some.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 21:21 | 1683374 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

SheHunter, I have driven from coast to coast at least 10 times, well over 50,000 miles, sometimes the upper tier some times the middle tier (never the southern route) sometimes in snow sometimes in heat and in 2004 I rolled my car at 80mph. Not in North Dakota or Montanna. Not in Utah or Nevada. No, I rolled into that ditch at 80 a short helicopter ride from the Mayo Clinic. I was in an artificial coma for 3 days. I was almost a little sorry to wake up. "

So I say to you with some experience: been there, done that.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:44 | 1680467 DosZap
DosZap's picture

richard in norway,

When your GOD, you call the shots.

And you do not get to judge HIM, HE is the ultimate JUDGE.

IF you believe that GOD is,then you would know HIS ways are JUST.



Sat, 09/17/2011 - 19:20 | 1680758 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Ah, you believe in a god, who is a guy, who is out there somewhere, separate from your every thought and breath, and the thought and breath of every other human and animal and plant and rock and atom and universe.

That explains these types of views.

You are a character in a dream in the mind of "god", and all that exists in a dream, is the dreamer.

See you later!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:24 | 1680107 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Both old and new testaments, as well as the Koran, are all horribly violent and show the path to a way of living that most modern people in the west would not want if they put any thought into it.  This might be why most of western Europe is not especially religious, and those few who attend church often seem to view it more as a social club or hobby than as the entire purpose, meaning and foundation of their very existence.

Then, here in the good ol' USA, we have the likes of Bachmann and Perry... most of the rabid US right wing would be in substantial agreement with militant Islam, if they simply switched the labels around a little bit.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 19:02 | 1680727 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I'd say we should strip ALL tax exemption status from ALL religious groups - churches, mosques, synagogues, temples, etc and MAKE THEM PAY taxes for their property, expenses and all the other regulatory bullshit everyone else has to deal with.  Then we'll see how many of these "spiritual" institutions are for real. 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:05 | 1681180 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Well, there is an answer -- alleviate some suffering:


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:58 | 1680624 DosZap
DosZap's picture

muckraker @12:44

What log did you crawl out from under?.

Orthodox Christianity is violent?.Where did Christ say to murder,or kill?.Commit acts of violence?,steal, rape, promote wars, hate your enemies,or condone any kind of behaviour remotely close?.


Your taking  nearly all this from the O.T.,different covenant, and different times, and those where not Christians.

The Bible has violence because man is violent, his sin nature causes it, its a part of the natural mans being.

Whenever GOD passed judgement,what was HIS reasoning?.Murder for the sake of Murder?.


This is not to say Christians have not been guilty of sin, they have, and are.Only difference is they are forgiven if they truly repent,and ask to be forgiven.

Suggest you spew this tripe elsewhere,some here know how it actually went down, and why.


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 19:07 | 1680734 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture


why do we need churches in our society?  If you live a spiritual life, don't hurt anyone, do a lot of good for others, care for others, sacrifice yourself so that others can benefit, love, love, love but don't go to church on Sundays because on Sundays you're out there actually doing something good, helping people and what you really think God would say, "Well, you lived an amazing life but since you didn't go to church on Sundays, I'm gonna have to make you burn in hell"?  

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:49 | 1681816 SilverBaron
SilverBaron's picture

Where does it say in the bible that you will go to hell if you don't go to church on Sundays?  You obviously know little about which you are speaking, or you are repeating one of your masters' (Satan's) talking points.  No one will go to hell because they didn't go to church on Sunday.  They will go to hell and be burned up because they refused the pardon that was offered to them by their creator.  "For yet a little while and the wicked shall not be"

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:28 | 1681785 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Indeed.  Leviticus and Deuteronomy are prime examples of how similar all these 'religious' texts are.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:18 | 1679976 Old. No. 7
Old. No. 7's picture

Take you and your wars back home. Leave Americans out of it.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:07 | 1680078 piceridu
piceridu's picture

I'm sure not defending any fairytale "holybook" and I'm no religious expert but talk about the Bible.

" The LORD is a man of war...."Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

I think the bible is a 2-1 favorite...

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:22 | 1679788 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

You guys need to watch portion of debate again. There were boos from couple big booers, but people in audience applaud majority of what Ron Paul said about bad military policy.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:30 | 1681788 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

they also applauded the death of a 30 year old in a coma because he should "make his decisions" and is responsible for his own actions.  Insanity ... in full view and cheered wildly

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:23 | 1679918 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



Speaking of the idea that Americans might be the terrorists of the world, I am reminded of a wonderful Glenn Beck segment in which he equated Ron Paul fans to "domestic terrorists."  *LOL*

Yep, that's right... just a couple of years ago, before Glenn Beck was paid millions to be Murdoch's court jester, he was over on CNN equating Ron Paul fans to domestic terrorists and stressing the importance of being civil. At about 1:30 in the video, he even cautions that "fringe elements [could] take disenfranchisement and turn it into violence."  How ironic is that? Beck would spend the next three years inciting these same "fringe elements" calling for "blood in the streets" and to fight against "a great evil at our doorstep."  Reload, you gullible goon!  

Fucking hypocrite!

Beck even had "Divided We Fall" in the background, which is probably the most hilariously hypocritical and ironic thing in the history of all media. Few could argue that Glenn Beck - just a year or two later - would become the worst of the worst, the most divisive media p/muppet ever, placing the wishes and whims of King Murdoch ahead of facts, integrity and civility.  

Let this be a lesson to all prospective media graduates out there.  If you're sensible and level-headed (as Beck was at CNN), you'll get nowhere - just refer to Beck's own quote, "No one is watching Charlie Rose."  However, if you make a complete ass of yourself and spew the most ridiculous fear-mongering garbage imaginable, you'll become rich and famous. There's only one caveat: you've got to have an incredibly dumb audience that prefers propaganda over facts.  And this explains why Beck's bullshit could only work at a place like Faux.



Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:38 | 1680013 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

The anti-Paul rehetoric is screaming lately, anyone notice? He can't win, no point including him in poll, it's just a bunch of stupids who click poll million times, He's not doing enough in Congress, he hate Israel, he have fringe group followers. If he is not threat to status quo why hate so much? But Perry is frontrunner and you have got to be scared of him winning right?

Perry is corporate whore, staff now paid millions by Merck. He believes in confiscating private property to make giant highway.

'Perry created and ran the Texas Enterprise Fund and the Texas Emerging Technology Fund to hand over taxpayer money to private businesses. Being a Perry donor is the surest route to winning a grant from one of these slush funds. Half of Perry’s “mega-donors” have gotten money. Examples include a $4.5 million grant to $80,000 Perry donor David Nance and poultry mogul Joe Sanderson, who gave Perry’s campaign $165,000, receiving $500,000 from the state government.'

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:19 | 1680060 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

You guys should be scared of Perry, even his last governor election in 2010, his opponent, Kay Bailey Hutchinson ran attack ads about Perry's plans to expand government and take land from the average Texan, called the Trans-Texas Corridor. Even Jerome Corsi write book about it, if you don’t know look from Wikipedia:

The Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC) was a transportation network that was discontinued in the planning and early construction stages in the U.S. State of Texas. The network, as originally envisioned, would have been composed of a 4,000-mile (6,400 km) network of supercorridors up to 1,200 feet (370 m) wide to carry parallel links of tollways, rails, and utility lines.The Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT) intended to "charge public and private concerns for utility, commodity or data transmission" within the corridor,[2] in essence making a toll road for services such as water, electricity, natural gas, petroleum, fiber optic lines, and other telecommunications services. The network would have been funded by private investors and built and expanded as demand warrants.

American author and conservative activist Jerome Corsi vehemently opposed the Corridor and wrote a book called The Late Great USA, the coming merger with Mexico and Canada.[22][23] In 2002, the TTC was estimated to cost between US$145.2 billion to $183.5 billion to complete the entire 4,000-mile (6,400 km) network.[9] Some criticisms have focused on the enormous width of the corridors. The planned system, if built out to its fullest extent, could have required about 584,000 acres (2,360 km2) of land to be purchased or acquired through the state's assertion of eminent domain.[citation needed]

According to TxDOT documents released in June 2002, "Governor Rick Perry wrote Transportation Commission Chairman John W. Johnson on January 30, 2002 to outline his vision for the Trans Texas Corridor. The governor asked the three-member commission to assemble the Texas Department of Transportation’s top talent to create and deliver a Trans Texas Corridor implementation plan in 90 days."[2]

In spite of public complaints–and both the 2006 platforms of the Texas Republican[26] and Democratic[27] parties opposing the plan–Governor Rick Perry continued to support the TTC.[28]

The TTC had the strong support of the Perry-appointed five-member Texas Transportation Commission, which was headed by the governor's close friend and former state legislative colleague, Ric Williamson, until Williamson's sudden death from a heart attack on December 30, 2007. It was also supported by State Representative Mike Krusee of Williamson County, who was the chairman of the House Transportation Committee

If Perry becomes President, you can bet he will try to make this highway happen.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:40 | 1680129 Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

The Trans-Texas Corridor?  The Trans-Texas Corridor?

Thinking....thinking...thinking...thinking. Sniffing...sniffing...sniffing. Smelling...smelling...smelling.

Stinks like a Goldman Sachs acid trip.  Such an easy hunch anymore.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 10:35 | 1681793 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

yep.  During GW Bush's tenure they were pushing it.  The idea is they can fire all the longshoremen in the US , a huge number of US truck drivers and use cheap labor in Mexico to offload the cheap shit from foreign lands and truck all the shit from china to the 'consumers' who are being destroyed economically by globalist scum

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:29 | 1680416 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

@"[Ron Paul] hates Israel":

Ron Paul hates Israel as much as Obama has been anti-Israel: it's all soft talk.  I may get interested in RP when he actually starts to question 9/11 ( ), when he starts talking about our wars in the proper terms (war crimes), and when he speaks truth about Israel: the country is a Nazi / Apartheid monstrosity and it certainly isn't anything we should want to be friends with.  It's not just a question of stopping foreign aid to the vile bunch: they spy on us constantly, attack our soldiers and seamen, and the ADL + AIPAC + jewish-owned media all-but control every aspect of what can be said about them.


Ron Paul can only be considered an 'Israel hater' when compared to others in the Repub (and Dem) party, who are so rabidly pro-Israel that they proudly display their treason.  Once more, it's all just psy-ops: the rest of the Repub contenders are just there to make Ron Paul look great in comparison.  Evidently, he also looks great compared to Obama or anyone else in the Dem party.


How about looking outside of the mainstream parties?  ZH denizens are so proud of how they have supposedly freed themselves from the mainstream media, but they certainly haven't strayed far...

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:34 | 1680583 Stelan
Stelan's picture

Your mother needs to take your computer away and wash your mouth out with soap. You can make a valid point without subjecting everyone with your lack of class which.qq

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:54 | 1680053 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

As an old man who sees America as a shell of her former self, I believe history will record that she was destroyed by the dementia of her own people. A culture of hedonists given to immediate self-gratification and an utter disregard for their posterity; who in pursuit of pleasure, willingly abrogated their freedom and consistently allowed sociopaths to rule over them. A people unworthy of their heritage, a people deserving of servitude and impoverishment.


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:20 | 1680103's picture

In other words, Keynesians.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:51 | 1680154 bardian
bardian's picture

The consequences of inflation run deeper than most imagine.  It enhaces greed and corruption. Think about it.  Human nature per se is a constant throughout history, and innocent of all crime. To blame the nature of man is to succumb to government propaganda and feed the true problem.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:29 | 1680223 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

a people too sheepish to stand up for themselves....too weak to call bs on their elected "representatives" and back it up with the same force that has been used against them. Unworthy to be called "American" - the population was relegated to absolute servitude until their children found out about the real America and asked their forefathers "what did you do to stop our indenturement? why should we not now take back our freedom?" 

sheepish---keep on drinking that liquor, do everything you can to ignore it--your kids will be proud.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:13 | 1681855 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

They said the same thing about the "roaring twenties" before the great depression.  In fact, only certain economic classes were engaged in the debauchery that is assigned broad sweeping generalization of " the people".  For example, the indian tribes of America who are so steeped in drug and alcohol addiction, poverty and dependency of government handouts to subsist, had their heritage stolen from them.  It is no different, the money power does this to people and then blames the people with their propaganda for the people's  reaction to powerlessness, deprivation of hope, cultural traditions and prosperity.  It is no different in a 3rd world country where parents will sell their children into the sex trade just to have enough money to eat and improve their lot in life a little bit.  However, there, the overwhelming poverty and lack of hope makes it 'normal' and all they have known whereby in the US it is being driven into the population by globalists and people still remember a better America. 

Don't be fooled by the deception, the money power wants to destroy the memory of a better America and make dysfunction the new 'normal'.  A fine example of the propaganda is any one of a number of commercials that depict people dancing with delight with some new fucking product and the depiction of these actors lives resemble no one I have known or have ever known.  I know very wealthy people whose lives do not even come close to resembling these happy, care-free images though they can easily afford these 'products'.  How much worse is it to see these things for those who will never be able to afford such things?.  I can only hear people thinking to themselves in my mind's eye, why isn't my life like that?  I want that.  Why can't I have it? What is wrong with me?   Little do they know they are simply being deceived while the money power extracts money from the populace by using slave wage labor in foreign countries and use the propaganda that it is the debauchery of the populace that is the reason they are being destroyed economically. 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:01 | 1680062 riley martini
riley martini's picture

It's those damn hippies that are trying to destroy America just like they did in the 60s . Glen Beck intellect.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:07 | 1680077 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Get off your pipe. Who the fuck caused mess we're in? Tell it to us in one simple sentence, boil it down to the nitty gritty.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:50 | 1680149 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

whstlblwr: If your question was directed to me, in one simple was my generation, the boomers. There is an applied construct to civilization that each generation.....owes a debt to the previous generation.....and pays it forward to the next generation. The boomers, to their eternal shame, abandoned that construct. When it came time to start giving back, they simply continued taking. I find it somehow appropriate that the Greatest Generation (and make no mistake my friend, they were EXACTLY THAT), gave birth to the least generation.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:32 | 1680239 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

Not sure about "least" - reckon subsequent generations (and I'm looking in the mirror here) continued the downward trend.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:45 | 1680271 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

No, agree with what you say. Thought riley guy calling RP supporters hippies...LOL, make mistake.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:46 | 1680472 Dan Watie
Dan Watie's picture

The Zionists that created The Federal Reserve Bank in 1913 should be held responsible for the mess we are in.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:56 | 1680311 Seer
Seer's picture

The Greatest Generation was a hoax, they were industry's troops.  They were the creation of Edward Bernays.

People need to quit picking on any specific group of people, as this hides the REAL underlying source of the problem: everything has been predicated on perpetual growth, and on a finite planet this was always going to come to a troublesome outcome.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:32 | 1680426 Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Seer: My father was 82nd Airborne. When I was a kid in the 50s, I used to watch him chop firewood for us in the winter................with one arm. I spit on you and all your socialist indoctrinated ilk.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:27 | 1681887 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Your bitterness and deceived beliefs will be your companions to the grave.  Shed them and make your journey a better one.  My father flew many sorties in Europe in a P51, he shot down Luftaffe who were killing the 82nd airborne in France was among the first of allies to free people in one of the concentration camps .. and other things which I have pictures that he took as he was a recon pilot.

My father also chopped firewood for us in the winter but I didn't watch him do it, I chopped it with him.  Brainwashing of the german people made them into what they became and it is/has happened to you.  Shed it... in the 1950's when your father was chopping wood with one arm, the tax rates on the wealthy was 90% and that is why this country was able to build its infrastructure (interstate highway system) during those great years for the betterment of the common good.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:35 | 1680123 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Anyone watching who thinks they know fuck all about fuck all

you better watch your backs.

Pretty much sums it up for all we posters here.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:16 | 1680200 formadesika3
formadesika3's picture

Gully Foyle, loved that book. Alfred Bester, The Stars My Destination.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:03 | 1679756 augie
augie's picture

wish zerohedge had supported this.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:05 | 1679758 CPL
CPL's picture

Tyler is in the right to not promote it.  His site is monitored.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:54 | 1679913 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Not only monitored, but occasionally infiltrated by .gov sock puppets and assorted bots.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:11 | 1680088 espirit
espirit's picture

This quote puts it in a nutshell.

"Among the eight candidates on stage was (R) Rep. Ron Paul, a long time legislator and the baton carrier for the Libertarian wing of the Republican Party."

Like actors on a stage? Like doctors practicing? Like money managers?

Bah- system wide epic fail.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 00:37 | 1681313 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

"The Libertarian wing of the Republican Party";  Well, I'll be. I never knew they had a Libertarian Wing. The things you learn from the Media is juz wonerful.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:33 | 1680101 Bob
Bob's picture

Not to mention that, judging by the twitter feed, many of the regulars here are attempting to disrupt the event there as much as possible.  It looks like this event is not sponsored--AND IS NOT APPROVED--by the Financial Community. 

There's a surprise.  So much for all the Heroes of finance.

Judging from the live video feeds, this a young people's phenomenon.  Humanists. Anarchists.  Greens.  Direct democracy poponents.  Etc.  The theme is to bring the Corporate Person into line with humanity.  Justice.  Freedom.  Liberty.  All that.

They really fucked up by not publicizing that free speech by "sidewalk encampment" has been upheld by the Courts.  Fuck, who woulda thought it would be legal?

NYPD has preemptively occupied Wall Street themselves to prevent protestors from entering their target area.  This should get interesting on Monday morning. 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 23:33 | 1681216 augie
augie's picture

Regardless of whether the site is monitored or not it was a waste of time. I retract my previous assertion. Just a bunch of kids trying to make a difference without a clue how to affect real change. I was hoping for a student led movement, but it seems the kids these days are alright (unfortunately).

Police presence was comical. there were more police than there were protestors. Wonder how much overtime they spent on this "threat."

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 11:59 | 1679738 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

America hasn't won shit since WWII, and even that is questionable when taking a look at the current political and economic landscape. The Statists started their counter-revolution 100 years ago and they are doing quite well. All that military money is pork and stuffed envelopes. We have to slay the evil boogeyman across the seas, but don't look behind that damn curtain.

Keep slaving away at your shit job and pay your taxes. Support the machine! OBEY

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:25 | 1679799 MSimon
MSimon's picture

I hear the USSR is still a going concern. Funny though. I can't find it on a current map.


For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the acme of skill.
Sun Tzu

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:01 | 1679746 blindman
Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:01 | 1679747 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture


Not sure if you are following this, but if you could give any updates/info on how the 'Occupy wall street' compaign is doing, which commenced today i think it would be of interest to the majority of the readership here:

I'm having trouble finding a live webcam myself.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:04 | 1679757 CPL
CPL's picture

we will be monitoring NYPD through the cameras and streaming so people on the street know which direction they are coming.  Some of the /k/'s are going to maintain a frontline.  I'm hoping they leave the guns at home.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:57 | 1680497 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

Dude, was trying to send an email to my buds using Yahoo. The pricks blocked all of my emails because I had a link to the "occupy wall street" web site.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:36 | 1681904 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I'm afraid the law enforcement agencies haven't figured out yet that they're pensions and their children's future are being destroyed by the wall street crime syndicate.  However, they will ... perhaps too late to allow justice to truly be administered to the bankers

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:02 | 1679752 duderino
duderino's picture

Just wanted to point out...  the author writes "including the example of building an American embassy in Iraq at a cost of one billion dollars, a cost greater than that of the entire Vatican, he claimed – one assumes he meant just the buildings without any works of art or manuscripts."


what RP was saying is that the embassy is literally larger than Vatican city...



Visible from space, bigger than the Vatican and 10 times larger than any other U.S. embassy, the diplomatic compound spreads across 104 acres and 21 buildings and includes a movie theater, retail shops, restaurants, schools and a fire station. Iraqis still struggle with constant blackouts but inside the embassy compound power, water treatment, sewage treatment and telecommunications facilities offer self-sufficiency for more than 1,000 diplomats stationed there.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:18 | 1679776 ZippyDooDah
ZippyDooDah's picture

1,000 diplomats


should be 1,000 death star technicians



Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:30 | 1679821 duderino
duderino's picture

thanks for catching that!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:15 | 1680095 espirit
espirit's picture


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:03 | 1679754 brokesville
brokesville's picture

they are the same obama/perry etc, this is all a big con-job, nothing will change they will shift chairs as much as you want, they know you, we whine and blame, and vote the same, if someone like ron paul tells the truth, it gets ignored

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:18 | 1680100 espirit
espirit's picture

As I've said before, the road to Washington is only two lane.

Winners heading in, losers headed out.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:37 | 1680248 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

Or: losers heading in, much richer losers heading out.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:06 | 1679761 AladdinSaneGirl
AladdinSaneGirl's picture

I live in a really multiethnic community, a lot of muslims ... Afghans, Iraquis, Somalians. Sometimes i dream of moving out to the country, back to my "own" culture. But i stay here. Why? Because basically they are great folk, I like living here. People have traditional family values, and aren't class or fashion snobs. Sometimes I spend a day in the more expensive parts of town, but you know what? I'm always glad to get home. We were the only part of London untouched by recent riots. Having said that, there are some extremists. ... on both sides.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:30 | 1679820 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

NO! Those goddamn browns killed America on 9/11 and don't you ever forget that. Think of the 3000 men, women, and children that were murdered by your friends. You better get down on your neighbor's prayer mat and thank Allah for Bush, Blair, Black Bush and their continued Wars to Save the World From Evil While Simultaneously Liberating Humanity. Without them, who knows how many innocent people would have died around the world.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:39 | 1679848 CPL
CPL's picture


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:52 | 1680295 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:31 | 1680002 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I was living in exactly that type of area in london (Tooting), and its exactly why I'm leaving london (I don't like the snobby white parts either)

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:12 | 1679766 dinastar2
dinastar2's picture

As an old-styled conservative european, and having spent 8 years in the mideast ( algeria- morocco - egypt - lebanon ) for business I can state that Mr Ron Paul , is the classic american dude, who thinks that by getting out the US army of the mideast the hate feeling of the muslims versus the USA will abate. It is not so much the USA that the main street mideast muslims hate but the INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, the absence of religious coercion, the easy going US way of leaving private matters as faith, sex, to the realm of the individual. Read some of Bernard Lewis essays on the matter ( Holy war & unholy terror ) or David Pryce-Jones ( The arabs: a closed circle ) or Fuad Ajami ( the arab predicament ) and you will understand that NO MATTER where the USA will retreat from the mideast , the mideastern muslim hate or scorn for the nature of the US society will not abate. Quite the contrary will succeed with the underdogs shiites in Iran taking the helm of the mideast , thanks to BUSH-OBAMA letting them getting their nuclear toy.  

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:21 | 1679785 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It is not so much the USA that the main street mideast muslims hate but the INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, the absence of religious coercion, the easy going US way of leaving private matters as faith, sex, to the realm of the individual. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Another take of US citizens who cant accept themselves as they are. That would nice and relevant if the depiction was the US. But since its start, the level of diversity has decreased in the US, so much that people are reduced to their visible biological features in order to give a semblance of diversity. The US is no diversity, the US is monolithic. Better to state that it is one coercer against another coercer in this story of the US invading the ME. They do not hate something that do not exist in the US. They hate or fear the real capacity of the US to erase other people, be it culturally or physically. Another day of cheap propaganda in this US driven world.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:10 | 1680354 dinastar2
dinastar2's picture

If the USA seems a monolithic society then try to stay a few days in the Gulf states ( UNITED ARAB EMIRATES..Saudi Arabia ) a few hours in Syria ( the leftists called it a progressive socialist state..LOL ) a few minutes in Pakistan-Iran ...You have no experience of what an oppressive religious & machist society looks like . Try to think of the women's fate who are compelled to dress like garbage bags for the sake of their dignity !!! Try to think of the 65 % of the muslims populations who are left illiterate despite having billions of $ in their government vaults for army, secret police , dress police , religious police, try to think of the homosexuals who are hanged weekly, of the christians who are butchered in Irak and in Egypt, in the name of Allah...So please avoid ridiculous statements about the monolithic amercian society. In fact your statement is the exact reverse image of Ron Paul isolationist ideas: Neither of you have the minimum experience to judge another part of the world. 

But the global ignorance of the common american is nothing compared to the sophisticated-intelligent blunders of the american policy makers: Actually your Obama is reprint of Jimmy Carter, the downfall of the Shah of Iran, was welcomed by Carter exactly as Mubarak of Egypt was thrown out by Obama, and those blunders have in both case been made for the sake of " popular freedom " " arab democracy " " muslim freedom "...What a ridiculous assertion, once you will have tested the islamic deep scorn for anything that makes someone a free thinker, an INDIVIDUAL able to decide his creed, his thinking, his tastes,his search for knowledge; maybe you will have a different , more elaborate experience of what means  surviving in the islamic dungeon. 

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 05:51 | 1681514 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

You failed to address any point made in my comments.

The US is a story of decreasing diversity. You simply built your own version to debunk.

Yes, US citizenism is spreading all around the world, with one effect among others: decreasing diversity.

US cheap propaganda as usual.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:14 | 1680531 DosZap
DosZap's picture


" The US is no diversity, the US is monolithic."

 You must be a foreigner to the US.As your statement above is insane.

This country has so many ehtnic groups it's like throwing a Mongoose in to a bag with a Cobra.

Every GROUP has special laws and rights and priviledges that others do not.

There is blind hatred between nearly all the groups, if not that, you can bet your ass there is little trust.

We used to be a melting pot, but that was before PC.

Now it's a clusterfoxtrot of bile and puke.

Wonder why the Government got the way it is, look at the laws,the way their passed, and whose Ox gets gored first.

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 05:56 | 1681518 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

What have groups to do with diversity?

This is the kind of cheap propaganda the US world order keeps spawning.

Yes, in the US, the group reigns as supreme but many groups does not mean heteregenous groups.

So an example: black africans are all blacks but are much diverse.

In the US, all this diversity was reduced to one feature: blackness.

And most of them are all US citizens.

The existence of groups certainly not does mean diversity.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:22 | 1679790 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

Ah,  that would explain why some of the 911 hijackers including Atta were drinking and snorting coke in strip clubs in Florida... preparing to make their statement against US freedoms and religious it

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:00 | 1680167 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Hypocrisy explains that.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 20:08 | 1680805 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

you're right, they probably even ordered some pay-per-view porn the night before they martyred themselves because they hated our way of life ... damn hypocrites

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:41 | 1681911 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

one of their passports landed gently into my hand in perfect condition after the planes crashed into the buildings

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:25 | 1679798 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

As a classic American dude, I don't care who they hate. Maybe the old conservative european countries can take up the slack over there. I am tired of financing the security of your old tired countries. In fact, I can't afford it. I am borrowing 40 cents of every dollar to keep the barbarians outside your gates. I don't see that as sustainable.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:54 | 1680033 ping
ping's picture

Ooh, that statement makes me so mad... you... you *rotter*! There, I said it! And you made me!

I don't blame you for not wanting to spend so much money on the military :o)

Buuuut that spending is entirely for the USA, not anyone else. Or more correctly, it's for Lockheed Martin, Haliburton, and anyone else who can turn a trick in the 'defense' sector. If the USA left Europe, we'd still have about 3 times as many tanks, planes and soldiers as Russia; Germany, manufacturers of kick-ass military equipment; and 2 nations with nukes, Britain and France. Really, we don't have any barbarians to worry about.

Honestly, we're not asking the USA to stay here. Lots of people are like 'Uh dude, it was fun, but haven't you got places to be? Oh, you want to put an intel listening post here, and a staging point for Iraq over there, in the corner... and a CIA prison somewhere quiet, so you can torture people outside the USA? ...And you really want a missile defence radar riiight about there... Um... you're getting clingy, you know' 

What I'm saying is: If Americans have been told that they're saving the world from itself, it's the dishonest military contractors and pork barrel politicians who've been saying it. Most people around the world want US bases removed as much as America taxpayers do.  

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:48 | 1680144 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Please take some time out of your day to make that clear to the nutters who think they're crusader knights and the Geert Wilders types, thanks.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:42 | 1679863 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

to be honest, i myself don't like muslims. i don't like islam. i don't like anything about that culture. but i know they had nothing to do with 911. nor have they ever really done anything to the united states. i mean how many arab spies have we caught spying on us?  name one. judging from history we know full well what islam is really all about and we have seen what they can do when they get together. they could be a clear and present danger but for now, they are not the problem. the problem now is israhole and its supporters. that is our problem and until we as a nation understand this fully and realize what is really going on around here, we shall always be running around chasing our tails and going to down never ending numbers of dead end ratholes pursuing enemies made up for us and created for us and enemies that can never be caught while we fight and die for nothing as so many have done before in this world. ron paul knows full well who is doing what. he has to. he has been swimming in that sewer known as inside the beltway for a long time now. it is like the former political  prisoner of conscience, james traficant said one time on fox news , on the sean insanity show, nobody does anything in our congress unless they know what the jews think about it. so it is now. ron paul is insulting me by trying to explain 911 with his stupid and silly bllowback is a waste of my time and i shall not listen to it. not now, and not ever.  he talks the talk but he doens't walk the walk. 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:59 | 1679922 chunga
chunga's picture

The company I worked for at the time had two entire floors at Two World Trade. For YEARS the notion of any type of conspiracy could not penetrate my thought process. I don't think any of us know what happened but the official line is very difficult (impossible) to believe. This video is a parody of the "investigations" and media coverage.

There is nothing funny about 9/11 except the feeble "explanation" of what happened as demonstrated in the five minute video. It was released 9/11/2011 and has over half a million views already.

9/11: A Conspiracy Theory

I linked it up on George Washington's blog. I hope it catches his attention.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 13:14 | 1679960 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

When someone(anyone?) explains IN DETAIL why the Saudis were fleeing this country in the DAYS/WEEKS before 9/11 and then why we had to run a bunch of special flights to ship a bunch of the cocksuckers out of here pronto, and why the fukin 9/11 commission clowns couldn't even get / publish info they were after then I might think there wasn't some coverup bullshit going on.


Until then , fuke off and die and take your standard white jeesus along with you.


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:26 | 1680219 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i sincerly doubt the saudis had a damn thing to do with it?   why would they?   what did they have to gain?  nothing.....

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:20 | 1680378 Seer
Seer's picture

The Saudis were likely whisked off to protect them from backlash.  Consider that bin Laden was a Saudi, and those whisked away were bin Ladens; AND, there's a connection between the royal family there and US oil interests.  Had a popular uprising against the bin Ladens in the US occurred it would have reverberated back in Saudi Arabia, and I assure you that would have resulted in a MAJOR distraction to the planned attacks/grabs against Afghanistan and Iraq (followed by Iran): it's ALL spelled out in PNAC for cripes sakes!

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:48 | 1680605 Stelan
Stelan's picture

Nice moutH. Can't you express yourself any other way? total lack of class.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:16 | 1680197 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

very good video. i wonder how much longer before it starts to sink into the sheep minds that this whole thing was a setup start to finish......and a clumpsy one at that.  just a word on ptech. vince foster was connected to that company as was john plane hit the pentagon. a plane was flown low over the ground and toward the pentagon. at the last moment it pulled up and flew away. at about the same time as the plane was ascending over the pentagon, charges placed inside the pentagon were set off, so to any possible witnesses it looked like that plane hit the pentagon which  it did makes me sick and i wonder what does it take to make amerikans mad? 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:23 | 1680213 chunga
chunga's picture

Vince Foster was so full of remorse he killed himself, rolled himself up in a carpet, and dumped his own body in Fort. Marcey Park.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:28 | 1680225 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yeh he killed himself , by shooting himself in the head and then he layed his body down in a nice straight laying position and the old gun he used was found right by his side by the park rangers with the smokey the bear hats on........yeh ........i am really feeling it now as much as i did then......then his office was ransaked for evidence and anything damaging was removed .......right in the white house......i say again folks. who is your daddy? 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:29 | 1680226 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Don't forget how, after Clinton gave Commerce the nod to transfer missle tech to the Chinese, Ron Brown died in a suspicious plane crash in freakin Croatia.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:37 | 1680249 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

nixon sent some people over the watergate hotel to break in the offices of the dnc. they were searching for evidence of the dnc getting campaign contributions from the chicoms. of course this little fact was lost in teh minutia of the nixon setup and removal over his issues with the dual citizens in our own government....


on another note the examining physician who examined ron brown's body and performed the autopsy said that he had a 45 calibre bullet hole in his forehead. hmmmm.... on the day of brown's funeral , slick willie was walking and when he saw the cameras coming toward him he started crying etc...........hmmm again...  brown had been making threats that if he went down everyone was going down. so on a trip to the balkans his plane crashes and they could not figure out why .....

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:55 | 1680250 chunga
chunga's picture

Don't forget the monkeys Ken Starr, D'Amato, Chertoff...they looked into all this. All they found was some red herring sauce on Monica's blue dress.

I'm watching this "occupy wall street" thing and I half expect a nut disguised as Elizabeth Warren to pull out an AK and shoot up a bunch of puppies. In a stunning show of bravery Moynihan, Blankfein, Bernanke will swoop in and save the day signaling the need for TARP x 10. Homeland Security will get the resources it needs to stop dissent of any kind.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:57 | 1680498 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

during his stint as special prosecutor, kenneth starr was a lobbyist for the chinese people's liberation army........hmmmm. now he is president of baylor university. how nice. isn't that sweet. he is a good christian man doncha know and totally honest and therefore he makes a good president of a southern baptist convention university....


Sat, 09/17/2011 - 17:11 | 1680530 Dan Watie
Dan Watie's picture

@Chunga +9/11

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 21:32 | 1680971 chunga
chunga's picture

This thread died on the vine but what's up with the down arrows? That's what happened. At the time Hillary's visits to China were benignly called "coffee klatches".

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:47 | 1681923 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Hmm.  I seem to agree with everything you wrote there

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:02 | 1680065 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I am not sure Ron Paul thinks they will like us. I think its a matter of disengagement in the sense of just getting out of "their" lands and not being constantly at war. I think one would be naive to think they will love us.

I am a hardline military type guy but I also believe in defense and noninterference. Having said that, I would have required a formal declaration of war from Congress to invade Afghanistan and Iraq. What is the purpose of declaring war if you don't use it? It has no meaning. Before moms and dads send their kids to hostile areas we should have a vote from the peoples' representatives.

I like Ron Paul for his economic, government and libertarian views...not as much his foreign policy. However, he does make points to consider, at least. I think we should consider different views before we start shooting and bombing. BUT...when we do, we play to win, no halfway dumbass rules of engagement to be nice in war. We win, we cheer, we leave.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 15:23 | 1680211 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

when you say you are hardline military type guy just what does this really mean?  i know what it means, but i would like you yourself to clarify. this could be a teaching moment for you see it is not the american way, to go around bothering other people about anything. yet we continually do?  why is that when the people don't want this yet the government does it anyway and gets the necessary support from the sheep by hook or by crook. what is it about us that makes us lose our attention span and forget about what we really want so the military industrial complex can continue on with their bullshit........someone said on here one time that a true conservative is one who wants peace and is in favor of the second ammendment and does not want interventionist activities going on. many people have forgotten what we are supposed be all about. the only damn time we should ever go to war is we are invaded. end of story.........if you want to call me a isolationist then go ahead by all means.......we should distmantle the entire military apparatus and send the soldiers home. it is not the department of defense. oh no. it is the department of perpetual jewish inspired mercenary wars. and that is a wrap.........i am hpd and i approve of this message........

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 16:01 | 1680323 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Excellent piece. I am SG and I approve of your message..

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:13 | 1679770 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Veterans support Ron Paul. They fully appreciate the consequences of our foreign policy. I know firsthand that war is the stupidest colossal waste of life and property and should only be initiated as a last resort.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:47 | 1679772 moonstears
moonstears's picture

The rub, IMO, is that there is an embedded edict in Islam, "convert or die". Now most Muslims will deny this, and thankfully lack the courage of practice, but swaths have shown that they will bend to the radical leader's orders, should they come. Further, we in the west rarely see any of these same "peace loving" Muslims come out and vocally berate acts of violence in the name of Islam. Simultaniously borders are opened in the Western world, and groups of Muslims gather in respective areas, just like in the ME(Sunni neighborhoods/Shia neighborhoods), yet western folks don't understand even these longstanding divisions. Quandary indeed.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:29 | 1680113 espirit
espirit's picture

Uh, doesn't the Christian Militia have the same edict?

Convert to democratic capitalism or die?

Sun, 09/18/2011 - 11:48 | 1681917 moonstears
moonstears's picture

Yep, you've all suffered under the Judeo-Christian ethics, handed down since our GG Grandparents. Pfft! By the way, any "good" point you'll make about Islam, is a Judeo-Christian derived ethic. Interesting when you think about it, huh?

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