This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: The Trouble with Rand Paul

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics,

Rand Paul just endorsed a man who is deeply hostile to human liberty.

Perhaps that’s Rand’s idea of playing politics? Come to the table, strike a deal, get what you can. Trouble is, it’s tough striking a good deal when the guy on the other side of the table believes that the government should be allowed to claim — without having to produce any evidence whatsoever — that certain people are terrorists, and therefore should be detained indefinitely without any kind of due process.

That’s textbook tyranny.

Yes, I would have [signed the NDAA]. And I do believe that it is appropriate to have in our nation the capacity to detain people who are threats to this country, who are members of al Qaeda. Look, you have every right in this country to protest and to express your views on a wide range of issues but you don’t have a right to join a group that has killed Americans, and has declared war against America. That’s treason. In this country we have a right to take those people and put them in jail. If I were president I would not abuse this power. But people who join al Qaeda are not entitled to rights of due process under our normal legal code. They are entitled instead to be treated as enemy combatants.


Mitt Romney

Except, if the government had any evidence they were really members of al-Qaeda and engaged in a war against America they could be charged with offenses under current laws and tried in front of a jury of their peers. As was proven when Judge Katherine Forrest struck down the indefinite detention provision of the NDAA as unconstitutional, the real detention targets are people like the ones who brought the case — writers, investigative journalist and whistleblowers: people like Chris Hedges, Noam Chomsky, Daniel Ellsberg, Jennifer Bolen, and Birgitta Jonsdottir.

Rand Paul might have done some good work trying to filibuster the Patriot Act, but endorsing Mitt Romney goes beyond the pale. The NDAA is Romney’s most egregious transgression against liberty, but not far behind are his desire to start a war against Iran, to increase military spending, to start a trade war with China and his belief that corporations are people.

I know I will never agree with any politician on every single dimension of every single issue, and that to some extent politics will always involve compromise. Certainly, I disagree with Ron Paul on some issues. But Mitt Romney’s stances on these issues seem much, much, much closer to Barack Obama than they do to Ron Paul. In fact, he might as well have endorsed Obama for President.

And the Ron Paul supporters are noticing: Rand has probably burnt most bridges to his Father’s supporters now. His Facebook page has seen a huge outpouring of fury:

Just lost a lot of faith in a man I otherwise adored.

You suck Rand! Traitor!

That’s why this country is doomed! Even the person you trust is a sell-out. I’m done with politics, people deserve what they get. Let the country run itself to the ground, and still people will not understand what freedom and self-responsibility is about. People want big gov’t, big brother every step of the way. Well, they got it. The rest of us, might as well try to move to another country or find an island and move there.

I knew I’d never vote for Mitt… Now I know I’ll never vote for Rand.

He has fully sold out to the bankers

Endorsing Romney is tantamount to an utter sell-out of conservative principles.

Did George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison try to compromise with King George? Or — when it became obvious that they were facing tyranny — did they stand up for the principles of liberty?

I have always been uncomfortable with the children of politicians becoming politicians. Every anointed child feels like a step away from meritocracy. Dynasties are dangerous, because the dynasty itself comes to be more important than the qualities of the politicians. Who would Rand Paul be if he wasn’t Ron Paul’s son? Just another neocon. Neocons often have a few “unfashionable” libertarian or constitutionalist sympathies; look at Charles Krauthammer. But — unlike Ron Paul — the neocon never has the spine to do much about their libertarian or constitutionalist sympathies. They just ride on the establishment steamroller, into foreign occupations, empire building, corporate welfare, and banking bailouts. Into Iraq, and soon into Iran.

Rand Paul just got on the steamroller.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:51 | 2508683 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:52 | 2508694 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

My guess is a 'deal' has been made - I'm curious to see what that deal is...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:57 | 2508713 knukles
knukles's picture

Principles are a bitch.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 16:58 | 2508718 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Rand was irritated with RPs success from beginning of the campaign.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 17:02 | 2508724 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Ha..  Like any of it matters..  Ron Paul could call Jon Corzine before his committee and ask him all kinds of Q's..


But he doesn't..


They all suck,  All of them..

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 17:10 | 2508754 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Yep. To a man. They're all only in it for themselves. If they won't sell out, they can't get the financial backing to run a campaign. Quid pro quo, Clarice...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 17:44 | 2508877 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Ron Paul was set up to leave a tremendous legacy. Now he's letting his son squander it for a ticket with the Romney Titanic. What joke. A lot hope died for a lot of people today.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:06 | 2508936 kill switch
kill switch's picture

Webster Tarpley's view on Ron Paul and Rand Paul,,,,This is going to be painful, but I must agree with webster,,,just look at the results...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:27 | 2509002 Aziz
Aziz's picture

I don't agree with Webster Tarpley about Ron Paul. Let's not forget Tarpley is a big government pro-socialism guy who idolizes FDR. I don't mind some limited government and some limited welfare, but Tarpley's vision is extremely statist.

Rand is a totally different issue.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:39 | 2509053 ATM
ATM's picture

Limited welfare? That's a fucking joke. There is no such thing.

Government is NOT a fucking charity.

When you say "limited welfare" what that really means is unlimited welfare because once that spigot is opened how is it possible to turn it off? Every fucking thing that money can be spent on money will be spent on - you know, because it helps someone. Only it doesn't. It is ony a forced stealing of the money of some to give to others to empower the givers. It's a power that the citizens of the US never gave to their Federal government yet look at what we have.

"Limited welfare" is utter bullshit. Giovernment as charity means certain bankruptcy.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 18:57 | 2509097 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Yes but in a democracy you will always get people voting to take money and give it to someone else. People like it. Yes, it's theft, and yes I know your response will probably be "this is a republic, not a democracy". I suppose you could have a political program that ended all redistribution, but good luck getting votes and support. So it's better to do a small amount of redistribution (say only for the extremely poor, no corporate welfare) than the kind of huge government statism that Webster Tarpley and FDR advocate. Maybe that's a road to bankruptcy, but it's a slower road than the one we're on today with MASSIVE welfare.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:16 | 2509142 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

That's just pure ideology speaking.  If we don't have a middle class through some redistribution, those of us with money will have to hire body guards.  Reality is a bitch, but that doesn't mean we need to live in a world of pure fantasy.

Rand Paul, on the other hand, is just a corporatist.  Unfortunately, many people who masquerade as liberatarians are in fact just corporatists.  For example, one of the prominent posters on this site (mises institute of canada).  Now we have proof with Rand Paul too.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:23 | 2509166 Aziz
Aziz's picture

You don't need redistribution to create a middle class — the opposite actually. The fastest way is a free market with opportunity for all, special protections for none, and a strong currency and that's a fact of history.

I want to minimise redistribution, because it is a misallocation of capital and labour, and it creates special interests that become parasitic.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:27 | 2509173 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

So no education for the poor/middle class through taxation?

That's redistribution.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:36 | 2509192 Aziz
Aziz's picture

The idea of putting the vast majority of children into a government (re)education camp makes me deeply uncomfortable. if you're going to fund and carry out state education on the local level then whatever. As I said above, it's unrealistic to try to abolish all kinds of redistribution. But 50 years later when state education sucks and its victims are moronic unthinking drones who care more about Air Yeezys than entrepreneurship and wealth creation, then we'll regret it. Oh right. That's the status quo.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:39 | 2509201 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I went to public school. I own a small business.  I do pretty well and I have public education to thank for it.  

Did you go to private school?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:58 | 2509247 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Do you force your employees to join a union and pay mandatoy dues to bribe politicians? 

Now that's freedom baby!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:00 | 2509251 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Hey mid-management guy.  How goes the E-Trade baby thing?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:08 | 2509388 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Not bad, thanks for asking. There’s no-one above me at my companies, btw, lot’s of people below me, (lol, I said B-low me!). You know, work work work... 

I come from a long line of lenders, I got rich just exploiting you spenders, but now I just manage the blender, up, up, up on the hill...


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:17 | 2509400 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

If you were that fucking smart, you would know that "lots" is not "lot's."

I call Bullshit. E-Trade baby.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:09 | 2509460 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

Runs a small business, spends all day every day policing ZH for thought crimes. Can we see the anomoly here?

I see you have trouble understanding the transmission mechanism whereby a libertarian society would supply much better versions of the social things you correctly value, but without the attendant bankruptcy and loss of services that your favoured system throws up. Anyway, good luck with the long hours of self education needed to get up to speed on this issue.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:18 | 2509476 Surly Bear
Surly Bear's picture

'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.'

Did you see what happened there?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:53 | 2509525 Nukular Freedum
Nukular Freedum's picture

Yes! You're free-riding again!

See what happened there?

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:21 | 2509637 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

I said.. "They All suck..  All of them.."

they do.. 

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 10:33 | 2510068 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Rather than not voting, consider Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate.  No chance of winning, but you will sleep better knowing you didn't vote for the lesser of two evils.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:23 | 2509726 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Can you define 'Liberty"?

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:02 | 2511204 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Disclosure: I didnt watch the video...+1 purely for your name!

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 16:27 | 2510880 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

It is so nice to know we have a grammatical and spelling bee champ in the mix at ZH.

What motivates you to be so meticulous?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:46 | 2509515 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

More like Oofusday.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:02 | 2509252 Aziz
Aziz's picture

I went to a poor government school characterised often by complete disorder, lack of respect, lack of morality. Some people I went to school with are now heroin addicts. Way to fucking go, big government.

We "learned" in history about the evils of laissez faire capitalism, and how brilliant it was that we have government.

Thank God I managed to self-educate that trash out of me.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:04 | 2509261 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Are you fucking shitting me?  

You are here at ZH and you got here DESPITE your public education?

Pull up the ladder.  I'm in the life boat.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:32 | 2509317 Michael
Michael's picture

What This Country Needs Is More Obama Enema!

If I get no satisfaction from the GOP, I'll now directly vote for OBAMA!

The complete and total economic collapse of the USA and the world is guaranteed. I say teach the whole country a lesson they'll never forget and let Obama finish it off, and let the blame shift from Bush to Obama and the Democrats, so the country sees both parties are the same.

A white verson of Obama being Romney is no better than the black verson.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:34 | 2509321 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

TPTB are going to let Romney Preside over the collapse.  I'm not sure why yet.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:50 | 2509336 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture

How do Romney or Obama support a law to target and kill Americans helping Al Qaeda when Obama is already helping al Qaeda (recently in Libya & now is Syria).  Does the President put out a hit on himself?

"...As to the current violence in Syria, we must consider the numerous reports of forces providing military support to the Syrian rebels — the UK, France, the US, Turkey, Israel, Qatar, the Gulf states, and everyone’s favorite champion of freedom and democracy, Saudi Arabia; with Syria claiming to have captured some 14 French soldiers; plus individual jihadists and mercenaries from Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Libya, et al, joining the anti-government forces, their number including al-Qaeda veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan who are likely behind the car bombs in an attempt to create chaos and destabilize the country. This may mark the third time the United States has been on the same side as al-Qaeda, adding to Afghanistan and Libya...."

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:51 | 2509359 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Too bad Rand Paul threw his hat in the same ring.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:47 | 2509446 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I made this same point on another thread, Pinto. :)

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:44 | 2509511 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"TPTB are going to let Romney Preside over the collapse.  I'm not sure why yet."

well, there may be a few more sheckels to pull from the yokels on the way down...

plus, Romney is such a security badass...he'll have no qualms about quashing the non-faithfull as ole Joseph Smith descends from a cloud to sort us all out.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:42 | 2509747 Michael
Michael's picture

This whole Ron Paul/Rand Paul ideological thing with Rand endorsing Romney is the Bible's Prodigal Son scenario being played out.

It's a sign.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:51 | 2509758 Michael
Michael's picture

We tried to get Dr Ron Paul into the Presidency in 2008 to soften the blow and were thwarted by the mainstream media, the status quo, the establishment, and the powers that be.

We tried to get Dr Ron Paul into the Presidency in 2012 to pick up the pieces of what was left of our Republic after the economic collapse and were thwarted by the mainstream media, the status quo, the establishment, and the powers that be.

Now I'm afraid it's going to be hell on Earth.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 08:20 | 2509949 BlankfeinDiamond
BlankfeinDiamond's picture

Sounds to me like you are saying that Ron Paul is the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 12:52 | 2510302 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"It's a sign."

yeah, it's a sign of the political "Whorepocalypse"

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:23 | 2509484 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

this needs to happen.. wait till SNAP goes to 1 in 5 citizens, that makes food prices go up even more

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:43 | 2509333 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:40 | 2509407 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Amen Aziz. Public education's main purpose is to teach us all to be good little taxpayers. Apparently 50% of the population is too stupid to even do that, so they become perpetual parastitc liberal voters.

It is easier to learn than un-learn...

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:52 | 2509522 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Funny. At my school they taught me about Civil Disobedience and how to fight the man by not paying my taxes. And we read 1984 and Animal Farm; lot's of "socialist" propaganda to be had in there, comrade.

Then didn't exactly make it past the 3rd grade...which explains quite a bit!



Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:05 | 2509617 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

They conflate their own ignorance with public school because they slept through class.


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:37 | 2509652's picture

When something is given for "free" it is seldom appreciated. That's why a system which is based on spending other people's money always leads to gross misallocations of resources.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 01:46 | 2509708 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

"When something is given for "free" it is seldom appreciated."

You're right. 100% inheritance tax immediately, for the same reasons you stated.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:02 | 2509715's picture

But that would still be giving the money away for "free" to the government. So your comment makes little sense although it was a good try at confusing folks into working hard all their lives in order to fund your pet projects. But if you're serious you can just give me all your Momma's money. Put up or shut up.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:45 | 2509749 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I don't stand to inherit a dime, fact is I pay for her these days, but that isn't going to be a problem as she raised me well.

(you should've asked for her library, fool!)


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:49 | 2509753's picture

I demand that the government take your Momma's library and give it to me.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 10:49 | 2510108 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

She'll gladly donate it as long as long as it's free to the public. Something about having the same available when she was a child and using it as a refuge makes her want to provide the same for others.

I guess she's just not greedy enough to be a "Real American" (tm)


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 03:29 | 2509782 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

So how about this one:  auction off everything a deceased person owns, then burn the cash or delete the pixels, in whatever form the money exists.  Kills two birds with one stone.  The money supply drops and nobody gets anything free.  It materializes the previous monetization.  If money is truly worthless, then no harm done.  The capital goods, whatever they are, still exist.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:48 | 2509664 acaciapuffin
acaciapuffin's picture

Saying that without taxes there would not be an eudcation system is like saying there would not be roads or a defense force in the US. People would come up with a way of making these things happen. Just look at the Amish or the mennonites.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 01:44 | 2509705 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Some of our best research comes from the Amish; they invented computers and the internet (though they aren't technically allowed to use them).


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:13 | 2509719's picture

People who live differently than you and who are satisfied with their lives are bad. Let's laugh at them!

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:41 | 2509744 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I've lived on a farm and shit in an outhouse. I was content then too.

Thankfully, the Amish know I'd fight to defend their right to be as they are (even if they won't). Some of us take that establishment clause seriously despite being atheists (perhaps even because we're atheists?).

Nice try the cape!

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:55 | 2509762's picture

I'm sure that the Amish would be quite relieved to hear that.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 16:50 | 2510912 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture


I think I'm getting a woody.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 20:29 | 2511261 Ben Dover
Ben Dover's picture

Public schools dont' matter. It doesn't matter if you teach them Karl Marx or Adam Smith. Shit, it doesn't matter if you teach them Mr. Rogers or Dr. Suess - they don't listen. We say we value education, but it's a lie, it's lip service at best. Parents are want leisure only and they pass that on through demonstration to their kids.

Home schooling works better not because of what that teach, but because the parents actually emphasize and live the education. You all will do better then the Snook-o-phoiles because you care about getting smarter.


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 06:36 | 2509871 Cosimo de Medici
Cosimo de Medici's picture

The government made them heroin addicts?  Wow, that's even more paternalistic than I thought. 

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 16:47 | 2510907 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Going to school and acquiring an education are two different things. Maybe you should ask, in addition to "Did you go to private school?", given your meticulous propensity for all things grammatical, perhaps you should edit your response and ask, instead, "Did you attend a private school?", or "Were you enrolled in a private school?" You could also ask about shoe size and preference for notebook paper, for example, " Did you take notes on wide ruled, or fine ruled notebook paper?" You could also ask, "Did you have a "loose leaf" binder or a "spiral bound" notebook?", Or, "When is your first recollection of looking up the definition of "lewd" in a dictionary?"

Is English your first language - or does the Obromney Cyber Army only hire HIB workers? For sure none can deny the ease of almost catchy catch phrases and displaying righteous contempt for spelling / grammar issues in a post IS a lot easier than  zeroing in on a point and laying out a useful counter, or supportig argument. But if it gets one laid, one should go for it!

How many employees in your small businness have you had to let go because of their failure to follow your strict grammatical standards?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:41 | 2509206 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Right. Because if parents did not pay that tax to the benevolent government to use on education they would blow it on hookers and coke. Fuck educating our children. Blow and bitches FTW. >.>

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:48 | 2509219 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

More than half of this country has money for neither hooker nor blow.  Oh, and they can't afford private school, tax or no tax.  MF.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:53 | 2509230 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Amazing. They don't have money to fund schools after paying tax to fund schools? That makes no sense. How can they not afford it.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:55 | 2509240 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Do you not understand how schools are funded and who pays the tax?  Do you not understand that the whole point of this debate is that I think the wealthy should pay more because they can and if they don't, there will be no public school and we'll revert to a feudal society?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:05 | 2509254 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Look. I grasp that in the current welfare society there is a large segment of people who would not be able to afford the level of education they have at present. Don't you get that the whole system is fucked up?


Do you know how education was handled before public schools? Do you know how it was paid for? Do you know what the level of education was?


I bet you never looked into it.


The reality is that literacy and mathematic skils are worse than it was then, across the board. Despite the lack of public schools.


Whatever. You are not worth wasting time on.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:13 | 2509282 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

+1 to your last comment. He's in deep outer space

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:20 | 2509296 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Which private school did you attend?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:25 | 2509305 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

I didn't. That's not the point. How could any other option be used when taxes were extracted. Taxation to fund public schools forces everyone except the very rich to use them.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:31 | 2509316 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Putting aside the complete hypocrisy...

How in the world did you overcome your public education to have the intelligence to post here?

It's funny, because the most fucking entitled population in the history of the world (middle class Americans who attended public school) spend countless hours on their fucking I-Pads complaining about the entitled classes. 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:26 | 2509412 ncdirtdigger
ncdirtdigger's picture

Of course no one can possibly learn anything without some government indoctrination instructor bleating it into their heads. Did you stop learning the day you walked out of your government indoctrination center?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:32 | 2509420 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Where did you learn to read and write?


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:56 | 2509455 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

I like you, LTER. I want to make that clear up front. I'm glad that you keep the conversation livid on here. We all need to consider your points.

I had the privilege of going to one of the best public schools in the Southeast. And I learned much more once I got out of school (university included).

My mother taught me how to read and write when I was two and three years old. By the time I got to first grade, I tested at an eleventh grade reading level. I was in a private Christian school then, and my mother yanked me out of it because they told me there was no Santa Claus.

Then I got put into the public schools, and you want to talk about being "held back?" Wow. And I can't even mention the horrible things that happened to me in that school.

Now I teach community college, and I see what the public schools are producing today.

Let me tell you, the public school system is a huge failure. It is designed to fail. In one of my brief stop-ins on FB last month, I was on a thread with three or four other teachers, one who was a retired teacher/principal, and they ALL agreed that the failure of the system is no accident. These are people who generally don't espouse conspiracy theory (which is why I was agitating them to begin with). One even remarked to me, "Now that's a conspiracy I'll believe in."

We have the skill sets and the abilities to make public education much better. But it does not happen. The system has been designed, from the start, to create adults with little to no critical thinking skills. It creates obedient dullards who cannot fathom the logical prowess of sentence composition, much less reading comprehension or intellectual thought. It's a nightmare.

I'm not sure how this fits into anyone's overall "ism" perspective, but please hear me say this: The public school system sucks out loud. And it's no accident.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:00 | 2509714 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Okay big secret: schools actually have very little to do with the success of any given child at obtaining a proper education. This has been, is now, and will forever continue to be the case; parents are the dominatant factor and when they are absent or fail to foster a culture of education at home, the kids are lost by the time they hit junior high.

I attended several public schools because my dad was in the service and we moved around from base to base as he was stationed. I learned Latin, how to play the french horn, and hundreds of other things that almost no kid in America gets to see in their classroom now. I've paid enough taxes since then to add a wing dedicated in my honor. When parents can focus on their kids, public schools work fine, when the adults are fuck-ups, school is a waste of money. The best you can do is segregate the future Wal-Mart greeters of America from the ones with potential and hope that enough squeak through to keep the stun guns charged for the other ones.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:12 | 2509810 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

It's not a "big secret," GMS, but I appreciate the point anyway.

And I don't agree 100 percent, actually. There are exceptions (kids who succeed despite horrendous odds with parents, siblings, environment, and intellectual challenges). I see them all the time (Thank God).

They are few, but over the years, their numbers are significant.

And parents are the biggest factor. But parents are not the only factor and are not completely determinant.

The point of my post is that what is happening in the schools, the environment of the schools, the whole performance outlook of the schools, and the goals of the secret society members entrenched in the schools are horrific and underperforming fantastically.

Parents have their role in all of this, to some degree.

But the teachers with whom I exchanged ideas all agreed: The system is designed to fail, utterly flawed by design, purposely.

That point has nothing to do with the parents unless those parents are a part of that design. A properly functioning system can do much more even if the parents are problems.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 12:55 | 2510308 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I'm in agreement with your points GMad - those children with a stable, supportive, caring home life start at the front of the line when it comes time to act as an adult.  I think one of the key traits instilled is confidence, which kids from the more chaotic, under-nourished (food and affection) homes have to learn along the way, if ever - when you start with inner confidence, from a place of feeling of worth, you can apply more of your energy to succeeding - not to prove anything to anyone, because you have an inate sense of self that doesn't require outside validation.

so many people have an unacknowledged "chip" on their shoulder, and no amount of trying to teach from books will compensate for this until the person gathers enough life experience to prove themselves of worth - to self, in relationship, or work situations.  people who lack self worth, confidence (not bravado, but inner self recognition) - start the game with a handicap no amount of "schooling" will ever overcome.

which is why I advocate home schooling - too many parents care little for their children's welfare now, and schools are used as gov't babysitters, a place to park the kids.  doesn't bode well for anyone's future. . .

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:05 | 2510688 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Will the people that won't help little Timmy with his math homework now magically morph into parents that can handle home schooling somehow?

I think my point was the parents need to be stable enough to hold up their end of the bargain (as mine did, once stability was provided by the armed forces).

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 21:13 | 2511334 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

yes, in an ideal world, stable parents would be the norm - what I was referring to with "home schooling" is that the parents that can will take over the responsibility for their child's education, rather than subject that child to a chaotic babysitting service - those parents that are still working towards elusive maturity, well, we've covered that. . .

didn't junk you, upvoted for balance!

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 23:56 | 2511541 Zionist Jew
Zionist Jew's picture


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:26 | 2510744 JB
JB's picture

my mother. 



Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:27 | 2509414 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Hypocrisy implies I had a choice. I didn't.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:34 | 2509426 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Only in America do people who learn to read and write from the public dole, and who have the luxury to spend hours developing crazy avatars..... [fill it in]

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:52 | 2509524 Zionist Jew
Zionist Jew's picture

There are no more George Washington's

only lackeys for the bankstazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:54 | 2509659's picture


Only in America do people who learn to read and write from the public dole, and who have the luxury to spend hours developing crazy avatars..... [fill it in]


And de ole time niggas dey gots dem free britches and den dey runs away from Massa's house. Tain't right.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:44 | 2509748 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture



Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:57 | 2509767's picture


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:15 | 2509812 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

?? People from many countries have this time and do this?? WTF?? Only in America?? Are you drinking??

Who is AnAnonymous anyway??

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 11:54 | 2510209 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Ad Hominem? That's all you had left? Pathetic. Fwiw, you missed the mark.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:42 | 2509580 _mike123_
_mike123_'s picture

Many parents have sacrificed their standard of living in order to home school their children in order to prevent this socialistic indoctrination of their children. I am not saying it is easy but it can be done.  

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 04:17 | 2509813 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Mike, as someone who has been teaching community college for 16? years or so, I can attest to this point; further, nine out of ten times, roughly, the home-schooled kids outperform the others (private schooled kids included) or at least arrive better prepared. That is my honest experience anyway.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:18 | 2509554 Nolsgrad
Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:50 | 2509598 oldman
oldman's picture


Dude, please don't take this personally, but I'm laughing at the idea of any of us implying that what is given to 'the people' the 'welfare society' when we have given the banks and the mic all of the 'welfare' of our little society.

THe scale of these two giftings is so out of balance that I just cannot help but laugh at the way our conditioning pulls us right back in the direction that TPTB want us to go.

This is the greater depression if not the greatest so let's please not begrudge the poor and less PRIVILEGED a piece of the fascist welfare of the state while there still food available---no one is going to pay the bill, anyway

like i said above---nothing personal motley since i say similar things occassionally myself             om

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 06:21 | 2509862 prole
prole's picture

That is the most pathetic defense of the Welfare State I can imagine. It is tantamount to "Hey look dude, they already chopped your arms off, so now why complain if they chop your feet off too?"

Stop stealing my money is that so simple? And while we are at it, stop pointing your gun in my face?

Change your Avatar to "Old man who steals your money"

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 12:58 | 2510312 oldman
oldman's picture


Thanks, prole

I gave you a green ,because, at least, you didn't ask that I become a 'contact'.

I don't know how you convoluted the comment to become so defensive. It was just simply a fact that I thought calling the social welfare state the probl;em as opposed to speaking of our real problem---that of giving the whole fucking farm to the TPTB while whining about the underclass was absurd to the point of laughter.

Keep your herad up your ass and remember, as the Aussies say

"She'll be all right, mate"

Thanks for your response     respectfully   omwsym

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 18:38 | 2511093 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

I'm sorry oldman, I cannot agree. I know that the scales of these 'welfares' are vastly disproportionate, however we cannot allow the lesser evil with the justification that a larger evil exists.


It's a slippery slope my friend.

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 02:24 | 2511676 oldman
oldman's picture


Thanks for the response. We are OK not agreeing.

I don't divide things into evil/good---especially not criminal acts. These are illegal by the common agreement of our society and as such should not be excused let alone aided and abetted by those elected to administrate the law. The social welfare, for the most part, is there to support members of the society that for whatever reason cannot support themselves; they are not criminals for accepting social wefare that we as a society have provided.

The banks, on the other hand have no such motive as bad luck---they committed criminal acts, voluntarily! And, moreover corrupted the government in the process claiming TBTF. This is larceny, extortion------you name it laundering drug money to manipulating the markets to---------

Come on, motley--we can cut the poor a little slack

Let us put our energy into the more immediate problem of taking our country back, our Constitution, our Bill of Rights and

let our charity stand---it is a sign of our generosity and our nobility---it is a grant--a free pass--and it is abused

But it serves a very human need to help other humans

And I am certain that you are not in disagreement with me when this is placed in its proper context

This is why your comment had me laughing---the differences between being unable to support yourself and being a criminal and a corrupter of the system that has made it possible for one to be called a 'master of the universe' are very clear cut and enormous in stature and damage to the the mutual welfare of the nation and its society

A little preachy, but then I'm an oldman                thanks again for responding                    om

Sun, 06/10/2012 - 13:37 | 2512336 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture


Charity does not require the force of government. You imply that if governments did not take our money, on threat of violence, that we would not help our fellow man?

The position is patently absurd.

I do not disavow charity, but forced welfare is not charity.




Mon, 06/11/2012 - 01:17 | 2513422 oldman
oldman's picture


We do not agree.

Who gives a fuck when his or her children are hungry,

About where the next meal originates, why or how????

We do not not speak the same language though we are speaking english well enough

this is not about morality or law or any of your right or wrongs

it is about each and every member of the society being granted some minimum equity in the sharing of our society's productivity

that's all--------------------------but, if we were so goddamned generous, dude, we would be having this discussion.

I didn't plan this life or even ask for it; I just showed up against whatever will I may have had in the womb---an accident of birth---nothing more

I was lucky in my birth, but I had NOTHING to do with it---not-a-thing!

Could' been black, female, gay, lesbian, but no, I came out as I am----and I have been graced by the universe for my life.

I am not talking about the lucky ones---I want the society to provide for each person a minimum of security or let the society manage its affairs more efficiently as the Jivaro did.

A Jivaro/Shaur woman went ninto the forest by herself, hung a special hammock, gave birth in it, inspected the baby, and if it were OK, she buried the afterbirth and if a perfect child did not show up---she buried the it with the afterbirth---now that is efficient and courageous and merciful to me.

The boomers and all of these people are here as the result of our 'winning' WWII and the credit bubble-----blah, blah---you know the story about how many workers were needed until they were not needed------they just showed up, but without the good fortune that you and I have had

Igotta stop---no one should have to be told this shit----that is why we don't speak the same language and why I can't live in the US again though I very much want to---I'm just too old and dumb to be like everyone else---It is your country, my friend---do with it whatever you like

if we were so goddamned generous, dude, we would be having this discussion.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:55 | 2509238 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"So no education for the poor/middle class through taxation?"

Are you serious?

Do you know how many high school graduates have to take remedial courses in order to get into college? Over a third. The only thing that needs "redistributing" regarding public education is the pensions, benefits & salaries of the ones who supposedly instructed our young with the basics. I'm sayin a third needs to be "redistributed" back to the payers.

And don't get me started on college tuition hikes for the further brainwashing of our youth.

We will never see the day where "educators", we're good...we don't need to raise more money for "education".

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:56 | 2509243 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Did you go to private school?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:43 | 2509340 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You taking a survey?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:52 | 2509360 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I already know to a moral certainty that you are a complete hypocrite.  Care to prove me wrong?

Name you private schools from K-grad.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:02 | 2509376 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Name you private schools from K-grad."

Care to try that in common English?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:08 | 2509387 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Which private schools did you attend?  Name them.  Or admit you are a fucking hypocrite.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:06 | 2509468 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Which private schools did you attend?"

None, idiot provocateur.

So you're completely wrong...again. You jumped to a conclusion based on nothing but your own bias. Now you will try to say public schools produced the man I is only true to a point in time in my very distant past.

But then, just like re-distribution, re-education can begin. It's not static is it?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:37 | 2509500 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Now that's funny.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:59 | 2509609 prole
prole's picture

Just like to jump in here to mention that you are an imbecile, a liar, a statist and an avatar. You should be ignored because you are more boring  and predictable than anonymouse Chinaman. Go to North Korea if you love Socialism, North Korea is a pure Socialist Republic of the kind that would make you swoon. I am directing you to your paradise you should thank me.

And if you have a private business that is what you call your avatar troll operation. Probably technically sub-contracting

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:51 | 2509520 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

 All great and critical thinking stems from public education? That guy is a jokester. Critical thinking is not something that finds us (ie public education) YOU HAVE TO GO OUT AND GET IT YOURSELF RAND!!! Public education is nil more than FUCKING INDOCTRINATION and the accompanying mental gymnastics you have to go through just to keep the bullshit out while allowing the useful information in -- and having the strength to KNOW THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:56 | 2509242 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Taxation itself is redistribution

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 10:10 | 2510030 Marco
Marco's picture

This is a rather fundamental truth ... why should I have to pay for the enforcement of other people's property rights? You can see property rights as something holy, but the moment a collective payment scheme is used to pay for their enforcement you have set your first step on the ladder to statism.

Anarchy is an ideal, anarcho capitalism is a compromise ... it's simply part of a continuum between anarchy and dictatorship, nothing really special about it and the empirical evidence of it's superiority over other parts of that continuum lacking.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:29 | 2509178 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Government backed small business loans?


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:47 | 2509218 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Yep. Fuck putting savings in a local bank to be made available to small businesses. I'm spending it all on hookers and blow.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:04 | 2509260 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

No inflation there... You can still get an eight ball and a blow job for under 200 bucks. My friend paid more than that 30 years ago!

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:09 | 2509268 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

E-Trade Baby poster mid-management guy (who claims he has employees) would much rather spend his money on an eight ball than funding the same public education he received.  


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:32 | 2509421 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

St. Francis Xavier, St. Genevieve, Pepperdine University. I have been toying with Public screwell dorks ever since. It's childs play.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:40 | 2509434 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Early school and college.

Middle School?

High School?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:53 | 2509452 Ookspay
Ookspay's picture

Man, you're dense and annoying, google it dork, K-degree! Why you care is a whole other story... Whether you like it or not private schools driven by market forces, healthy competition and unfettered by union incompetence are far superior to public education. As an added bonus, there is no indoctrination, which has to be trained out of morons like you.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:42 | 2509510 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture


Public school 



Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:04 | 2509614 prole
prole's picture

Why is anyone answering you? You are on a Free Market blog spewing your Socialist bile.

Fvck you. Stop stealing taxpayers money. Stop pointing that gun in  my face. Mandatory Prison for all youths is an abomination much like each and every one of your posts

Nobody believes you have a business or operate in the private sector Cass.

Kill yourself but please take AnonyChinese buddy of yours with you

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:47 | 2509750 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 06:16 | 2509858 prole
prole's picture

No Fuck you. Fuck the Commie Horse you rode in on. Fuck Socialism. And take your one fellow traveller with you.

Go back to the Daily Kos or wherever Commies hide when the lights come on

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:52 | 2509759 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Especially if what you're really after is a particular flavor of fucked up ideology to be fed to your little future cokehead progeny.

We hope the "priests" weren't too hard on yer butt, skippy.


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:03 | 2509611 delacroix
delacroix's picture

hey hey hey, that hooker is a small businesswoman.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:57 | 2509244 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Government backed small business loans?"

Maybe you haven't heard, government is broke.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:02 | 2509253 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Did you notice that Rand Paul is a corporatist sell-out?  Who could have predicted it.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:58 | 2509373 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Did you notice I offered no opinion?

Define "corporatist" for me LTER.

For example, where do you get your flowers from (as a florist)? Do you grow them yourself or do you have arrangements & contracts with another corporation?

I assume you're a "corporation" yourself as a self identified business owner (S-Corp I suspect, if true). It's prudent.

Whoopsie? ;-)

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:12 | 2509391 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

I am an S Corp.

And in Florida, we do P.A.'s.  So I am a P.A. that is registered with the IRS as an S Corp.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 22:56 | 2509531 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I asked for your definition of a "corporatist"...I already figured you were an S-Corp...I'm sure you can see the peril of you're stated stance now. old joke, we are the ones who charge the very low price of a dollar for a simple piece of chalk and a hundred thousand dollars to mark an X with it on the proper spot where the discrepancy/flaw between theory and practicality is, so others can fix it.

You'll have a new appreciation for life, as it was, when we Go Galt ;-)


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 23:30 | 2509571 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

You have no idea what you believe.


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:04 | 2509616 prole
prole's picture

I for one believe you are an imbecile. Seek sanctuary in North Korea

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:49 | 2509752 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Hey, food stamp.

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 05:34 | 2509841 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

oh man. this line of reasonings bugs the shit out of me. listen up. yes we all use corporations, hell my parents even have one. the problem is that when corporations are given rights, and rights are taken away from individuals, and corporations control votes, and individuals feel voiceless....eventually what will you get? why you will get a corporate technological world dictatorship! does that sound nice? as long as you have no free thought and don't mind living like a mind controlled and monitored slave it will work out nice for you, until you get eliminated as a useless eater....

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:18 | 2509295 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



Ah, but it has this magic credit card courtesy of the Fiat Enhancement Department.

and the next round's on it/us.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:48 | 2509352 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Fiat Enhancement Department"

I may have to shamelessly steal that ;-)

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:53 | 2509363 Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture



and spread it far and wide.

The dis-acronym that is.


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:05 | 2509380 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I will, with attribution...ok I fibbed a little, I won't steal it ;-)

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:30 | 2509182 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Funding of interstate highways to facilitate interstate commerce for truckers?


Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:46 | 2509217 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

Yep. Hookers and blow beats roads. Besides there were no roads in existence that were not created by our benevolent masters using the tribute we pay.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 19:49 | 2509224 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Who paid for the interstate highway system? 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:13 | 2509283 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Future taxpayers. $16T in debt is a pretty good indication that it has not yet been paid for.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:21 | 2509300 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It was paid for before you were born.  

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 00:53 | 2509671's picture

But all the cars on the interstate are destroying the world with global warming!

Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:53 | 2509761 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 02:58 | 2509768's picture


Sat, 06/09/2012 - 15:09 | 2510702 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture



Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:15 | 2509288 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The public.

What ever became of the old widows who were imminent domained out of their bought & paid for homes in the way of "progress"? Did they spend the paltry proceeds for a nursing home and when the money ran out have the plug pulled?

And who paid for the bridges to nowhere and off ramps in Nevada adjoining selected undeveloped land owned by powerful senators?...the public again.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 20:23 | 2509303 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Now that's just funny.

Yes, the interstate highway system was a bad idea.  

P.S.  The widows were paid big bucks for their tracts.  And a bunch of lawyers made a lot of money litigating it.  You have no understanding of the history of your own country.  Go study for a few years and then let's talk.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 21:50 | 2509451 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The day I take a history lesson from you, will be the day I quit posting. I said nothing of a "tract", your implication is clear, as was mine, with imminent domain L-tard.

But, speaking of "tracts", you feel it's much better to forcibly remove the "small people" for the "collective good" (as in TVA and interstates) where I don't. This is a difference in ownership rights between us. You feel the state is supreme where I don't and never will.

These are irreconcilable differences...twit.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!