Guest Post: Unleashing The Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 1)

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Zeus Yiamouyiannis, contributor to Of Two Minds

Unleashing The Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 1)


My last article on debt forgiveness, Endgame: When Debt is Fraud, Debt Forgiveness is the Last and Only Remedy must have struck quite a chord in discussions of the future of the economy. It was re-posted on scores of websites and received over 20,000 reads on Zero Hedge. It also resulted in a reference on the Max Keiser Report and a subsequent interview with Max Keiser. This led in turn to a popularization of a term I used, “fake assets,” to denote the true nature of “toxic assets”.

The good news is that people are talking, attempting to assess the situation in real terms, and looking for an alternative to the broken system. The bad news is that this discussion has not been turned very much toward practical directions. The main contention in my original article on debt forgiveness and subsequent interview was simply that ignoring the mathematics of debt (where debt grows exponentially and real growth is limited), especially when magnified by tens, if not hundreds, of trillions of dollars of additional fraudulent debt, is a dangerous fantasy that worsens insolvency and accelerates collapse. “Extend and pretend” cannot provide an answer but can only amplify current destructive trends and delay serious preparation of an alternative.

This series outlines some of the alternatives to the current impasse.

Principles and issues in debt forgiveness administration:

Before embarking on a mission to address the standoff between people who cannot pay their debts and international economies that have been running on massive debts for the last three decades, one must do a reality check and establish sane observations and principles.

1) Debt that cannot (vs. “will not”) be practically paid is not a debt in its classical sense. It’s a default. Whether or not people want to recognize this reality is another issue. We recognize that a law that cannot be enforced is not really a law in any practical sense, so why are we dragging our feet with debt? Greece cannot pay its debt by any rational formula. It is already in default. Extending and pretending does not materially change this fact, it only delays recognition of the stark, enduring reality.

2) Debt based in fraudulent lending is also not true debt in any meaningful sense, since the loan along with its obligations originated from something (private fiat) that had no valid authority or exchange value to begin with. Much of the current worldwide debt simply stems from lending based in fraud numbering in the hundreds of trillions of dollars by institutions who did not have adequate collateral (i.e. held insufficient capital reserves, engaged in mark-to-fantasy accounting of their assets, assigned real value to fake assets like credit default swaps, etc.). A lending body cannot give effectively nothing to someone (claiming it is something) and legitimately expect to get something real back.

3) When debt systems are flooded with fraudulent currencies and claims, it is not true that someone, either the borrower or lender, will have to pay the “false value”-backed debt. You are not legally allowed to profit from crime nor legally obligated to support crime. This precludes the payment of many of the debts currently in circulation. In committing wide-scale control fraud, major financial institutions have broken laws. The laws they have broken are enforceable; they just have yet to be enforced.

However, even with successful prosecution, bankruptcy proceedings, and nationalization/receivership of offending institutions, we are left with a practical problem: Real currency has been mixed with fake currency, real debt with fake debt. Chains of title and claims to property have been so forged, electronically registered, diced up, and distorted as to make it difficult to sort valid ownership from invalid. When real money has been high-jacked and “disappeared” as with Bernie Madoff, what can be done to address this? These will be points of discussion later in this article series.

4) The mathematics of debt, even without fraud, would require periodic forgiveness or at least abatement. There must be ways for debts to be adjusted to contingencies. Economies, like families, go through good and bad times. Debt obligations are constructed as if there are only good times. Basically, the only way to pay off a debt is to outrun it in a time of relative stability. Even in eras of surplus, debt takes a big bite out productive effort, but it quickly becomes consuming as one gets behind in payments and as more and more of the fruits of effort must go to servicing debt.

At that point, loans become chains that tie people to mediocre jobs and underwater houses and no longer engines of mobile growth. Debt forgiveness recognizes this contingency and facilitates liberty, productivity, and global quality of life as the more salient indicators of vital economies. Policies and contracts ultimately must be in the interests of people’s well-being for them to be legitimate. Conversely, when debt is ring-fenced from contingency as with student loans, it will be become inherently corrupt and unjust.

5) In any rearrangement of the debt system, productivity and stakeholdership should be rewarded and parasitism should be punished. It’s easy to forget that people used to go to a banking agent to get a loan to grow their net financial worth through productive enterprise. In such a relationship the bank gained a stake in your success, not your misfortune. If we are serious about rewarding well-applied effort, then it would make sense to peg debt and debt obligations to the productivity growth curve of an enterprise or domestic product. Lending institutions, then, would essentially buy a longer term stake in the success of enterprises it funds, exert a due diligence proportional to its interest, and both benefit from and share the burden of inevitable rises and falls in growth.

In the housing-bubble debacle the incentives were exactly opposite. Irresponsibility was rewarded precisely because banks could sell off fraudulently documented loans as quickly as they could be signed. In late capitalism, bank support for productivity has been converted into support for exploitation and victimization, using repayment shortfalls to repossess assets from borrowers even though the bank loans were drawn from “money” backed by counterfeit assets. That has to be reversed—real money for real enterprise backed by real assets.

6) Things go down and not always up. “New era” rhetoric where financial gravity is suspended is a dangerous delusion. When we realize this simple fact and combine it with rewarding productivity and stakeholdership, we realize that our revenues and values will fluctuate dependent upon demand, environmental limits, and a host of other factors, some within our control and some not. Fighting this empirical fact, on the other hand, creates damaging and unsustainable living. Why not tie notions of prosperity and economic organization to optimizing our productivity, by identifying and working within the changing conditions, not distorting those conditions by taking on debt-credit to be paid by later generations?

7) The living shall not be beholden to the dead. When an individual person dies with debts, what can be collected from their remaining assets is collected and the rest is written off. Yet the opposite occurs with generational debt. Irresponsible borrowing by past generations is foisted on succeeding generations. The sins of the forefathers are preserved with interest to gouge the quality of life of younger people who neither decided upon nor benefited from irresponsible borrowing.

Certainly, we now see scorched-earth class warfare of the 1% against everyone else, but we are ignoring an even more profound unintended warfare by an entire generation of post-WWII world citizens against the wellness and interests of its own children. How could such a destructive myopia so thoroughly pervade society and bring us this critical historical inflection point? This will be examined in the next part.

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Chief KnocAHoma's picture

Not entirely true... but you make some good points. If there were no safety net or ability to declare bankruptcy NO ONE would take risk, innovate, or speculate. They all contribute to our economy, some more than others.

But we can not stiffle the risk takers. Without them there would be no progress.

And you do have the opportunity to salvage your wealth. If you see the debt jubilee train coming, convert to assets that have no counter party risk.


Seer's picture

"If there were no safety net or ability to declare bankruptcy NO ONE would take risk, innovate, or speculate. They all contribute to our economy, some more than others."

Are you saying that it's always existed, that humans "arrived" pre-bundled with safety nets and risk-taking abilities right from the get-go?  If they didn't, then how did they survive before the point that they did?

"But we can not stifle the risk takers. Without them there would be no progress."

Please define "progress."  And no, I'm NOT going to accept an answer given by a banker!

NOTE: You'd be hard-pressed to identify anything progress-based that doesn't depend on unsustainable resources.  Progress is in the mind...

Conax's picture

Debt forgiveness is total bullshit. Some people avoided buying houses at the top of the bubble. Others plunged in. They live in large McMansions while the prudent live according to their means. So the prudent gets forgiven of a couple thousand in CC debt, while the profligate get a free mansion. This is not justice, it is another handout to the profligate spenders, while the thrifty family picks up the tab.

No fokkin way, Josea.

devo's picture

Exactly. This article is Socialism/begging for handouts/not accepting responsibility. Any investor who doesn't understand the market or risk deserves any loss they take. I thought ZH supported Ron Paul...? Would Ron Paul advocate bailing out bad investments, or does he advocate owning your decisions?

JLee2027's picture

??? Socialism is the CAUSE OF THIS. There are no free markets anymore, thus the risk is close to 100% that you will lose. It's a rigged casino out there.

There is no realistic choice left to fix the system but massive debt forgiveness and new currencies back by Gold/Silver to anyone who's actually paying attention.

ex VRWC's picture

If its a rigged casino, don't play.  This is my problem with all these 'debt forgiveness' scenarios.  They presume that debt needs to be a part of society, and that we need these forgiveness schemes because it is abused.  Why are we not talking about the debt itself being the problem?  Is that so hard to fathom?

Seer's picture

"If its a rigged casino, don't play."

Sigh, the problem is that the casino funds all the BIG entities that "provide" most of our "needs."

I had someone ask me how I justified my position of still working IN the System.  It was hard to reply.  It's nearly impossible to escape it, at this point that is.  My "answer" was that I was straddling the existing and the future- pretty damn tough, but I see no other alternative (if I was younger I could probably do a better job of breaking away).

Life is more about direction than attainment.  We've long focused on attainment, at the cost of direction... that we should find ourselves lost should be no surprise.

Random_Robert's picture

I think straddling is a good way of looking at it. Breaking away invites violence against you- once you have filed a 1040 and your SS number is correlated with "productivity" , Caesar will not let you escape the burden of the taxman. Escaping from this web is as futile as picking up the final domino in the chain and trying to make it force every other domino back to a vertical position. Some things simply don't work in reverse.

In other words- once the cow's udders produce milk, that cow's fate (and its daily routine) is sealed. The milk will flow until it doesn't, and then it's off to the dog-food factory.

Once upon a time I was convinced that my children would leave the hospital without SS numbers, but in a moment of self doubt, I relented...

But I have every intention of teaching them well what the word EXEMPT on line 7 of the W4 form really means.

Great point about attainment versus direction.



devo's picture

What about people who were responsible, realized they shouldn't go into debt, have no debt, and are having their savings chipped away at because of other peoples' bad decisions? Do we get some of this debt forgiveness money, too? Or are we just penalized for doing the right thing? Okay, that makes perfect sense.

JLee2027's picture

If you are supporting the debt slavery system that currently exists you are not doing the right thing at all.  The debts are a FRAUD, the money is COUNTERFEIT, and what are you doing pretending to take the moral high ground?  

You are the slaver.

ex VRWC's picture

No, debtors are the willing slaves.  He is not the slaver.  He has chosen not to play a rigged game.  That does not make him responsible for debtors who did.

The rationalization that goes into posts like yours boggles my mind.  

JLee2027's picture

100% Wrong. Debtors are not willing slaves. They have no control over market prices (inflated due to easy credit and government policies), interest rates on credit cards or when some court sticks them with child support. How about student loans that can never be forgiven, not even in bankruptcy. Not willing at all. The entire system is modeled on the idea of putting people into debt slavery AND KEEPING THEM THERE FOREVER.

If you pay paper debts, you are supporting this evil system and you are a slaver. 

ex VRWC's picture

Bull petunias.  I am saying don't take the debt in the first place.  Nobody needs to have credit cards or take student loans.  Child support is typically limked to something like divorce - also not mandatory behavior.  You would be surprised that yoy can live life out of debt - it can be done.  The society says it cannot be done and advances concepts such as 'credit score' that rate people based on their debt capacity - but it is artificial. 

devo's picture

What are you talking about? I own zero debt, and have my wealth in cash and PMs. I've never had a debt in my life other than 20k in student loans when I graduated, and I paid that off in 3 years making $13/hr; never had a balance on my credit card in my life. I'm not the problem. People who live beyond their means, expect bailouts, and generally act irresponsibly are the problem. Sure, the banks bait them, but an uneducated investor gets what they deserve. There's risk in any asset purchase.

JLee2027's picture

What no family or house? No new car or iPad we want? If you have no needs, then you have no business telling others how to live. This isn't going to impact you, so why would you care?

Either through incredible lucky life experience (which I kind of doubt) or you are completely naive. In either case, you have no business telling OTHER PEOPLE their debts cannot be forgiven.  You have no clue what many have gone through in the past 40 years fighting seas of endless debt which never stops. There are hundreds of millions trapped in this system. Are your parents in debt? Brother Sister? Relatives? Give me a break genuis...those with PMs and no debts want the system broken, not to continue. Otherwise, why choose to be in PM's and have no debts?

As I said above, the current system is IMMORAL, it's feeding on people. The crooks want it so they can continue to steal wealth and commit fraud endlessly.

No more replies to you.


devo's picture

Dude, I own a used Volvo, purchased years ago for 3k. So of course I don't have car payments. Why would I buy an asset that (a) requires debt and (b) depreciates the moment I buy it?

And no, I don't own a home. I rent because home prices are still too high. They've been too high/inflated since I began working, so instead I saved my money. And no, I don't own any stocks because they too are inflated.

I do own an Ipod, but it's from 2004, and I bought it used off eBay. It works fine; does what I need it to do. My computer is from 2007, and I upgraded all the internals instead of buying a new one. $150 vs $900. I'll use it until it dies. My phone is a crappy Nokia from 2007 with no touch screen, data plan, etc. It works fine!

I didn't have a "lucky life experience". My family grew up piss poor in one of the most expensive states to live. I went to school every day wearing ketchup stained clothes my mother purchased at Goodwill. My father was a lazy shit who never looked for work and abused drugs. I paid for my own education (20k) and applied for academic scholarships (about 5k), which I received. I paid that money back within 3 years making 13/hr and doing difficult work. Eventually I landed a good job where I was able to save more and build up reserves.

I don't know if any of this is "genius" or common sense. To me living within ones means, having a nest egg for bad times, educating ones self on how finance/investments work, and making wise purchases is common sense. People who don't seek out that knowledge are the problem--if everyone understood housing was a bubble, then banks couldn't get away with insideous loans. Both parties are to blame, and both should be punished--banks should go bankrupt, and home owners should have to pay off their bad investments (to whomever purchases the banks). The idea of me and my fellow responsible savers bailing out bad decisions made by uneducated masses does piss me off. It punishes good behavior. And I don't lack empathy by nature. Everyone is dealing with their own shit. Everyone has problems. Some worse than others. I get it. But that's only my problem if I freely choose to help those people.



Seer's picture

The entire civilization is based on irresponsibility- endless growth on a finite planet.

I long-ago downsized from Volvos: own a 21-year-old econo-can.

I've NEVER had a credit card.

I DO "owe" money.  It's for my HOME, which is also my in-process farm.  I could have sat on a pile of fiat hoping that I could exchange whatever value it would have left for a cheaper property, but I'm getting older- one thing you cannot get more of is TIME.  This was recently, when banks were very clamped down.  Rather than let go of more valuable assets I've opted to keep in play the chance that one day there may not be a mortgage collector at my door: note that I placed a fair amount of fiat down and that I will continue to endeavor (there's no guarantees in life) to repay the contracts to which I sign.  If the bill collector no longer is there to collect then I will have my property (possession...) AND my assets.

I've got several other "hedges" going as well.  I am NOT, according to these circles, wealthy.  Much has come about because of strings of "good"decisions (none related to playing the stock market, or any inheritance), primarily aided by a willingness to check my ego (and change directions despite how it would make me look to others).

"The idea of me and my fellow responsible savers bailing out bad decisions made by uneducated masses does piss me off."

What should piss you off more is that you're IN this position.  While I am in no way free of the consequences of others, I think that I've made a fair attempt to lessen those risks.  Rather than expect others to behave better I placed the expectation on myself, for it is only myself that I can truly trust.

Right-on Left-off's picture

Or are we just penalized for doing the right thing?

The article is truthful and factual in its statement of the problem.  Let's see what equitable solutions come in the follow up.

Only seeing punishment and reward closes one to potential equitable solutions.

Seer's picture

If you're busy watching the other sheep then you're not watching the wolf.

I don't think that people should be sitting around and waiting for any "solution," that they should instead just get on with getting on.  There's a never-ending bag of excuses; all they do is distract and waste time, and time is the one thing that we can't get more of.

mynhair's picture

What nimrod pulled 0 off the golf course for a stupid meeting?

Milton Waddams's picture

The greatest trick the Fiat Debt Ponzi ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

steve from virginia's picture


Get rid of the debt:

 - Wealth = debt so that getting rid of the debt also gets rid of the wealth.

 - Exception to wealth = debt: Steve's First Law of Economics where the costs associated w/ surpluses expand to exceed the surplus' value.  Wealth is constrained by physical/relational limits while debt expands to the point of absurdity.

 - Balance sheet basics: losses taken on a fraction of debt wipes out all wealth.

 - Our non-financial enterprises are non-productive. What is the marketable worth of 'vehicle miles traveled'? The product of our Main Street economy is waste. This leaves industrial enterprises as entirely debt-dependent.  If by magic the total debts are forgiven tomorrow, an amount of debt equal to what has been forgiven must be taken on the very next day so that our so-called 'businesses' can function.

This is what people don't 'get': our activities do not earn anything but are dependent upon the subsidy provided by debt.

 - All the debt-components are integrated with each other. There is no 'forgiving' or legislating against government debt while leaving the rest intact. Government debt subsidizes the carry costs of private indebtedness. Finance's debts are measured against the 'wealth' of industry. There are no 'virtuous parts' of the waste-based economy that can support themselves, nor are there any virtuous parts that can escape the general conflagration.

Sorry, hate to rain on your 'easy solutions' parade but there is no easy way out of the mess we have made for ourselves.

Seer's picture

"This is what people don't 'get': our activities do not earn anything but are dependent upon the subsidy provided by debt."

Thank god someone gets it!

All we're doing is counting marbles accumulated by promising to extract MORE marbles, all the while there's only so many marbles on this finite planet.

What will we really have "accomplished" when the next glacial period comes and obliterates everything?

I love it when folks try and claim how important business is, forgetting that most are really of little human value: but, hey! Apple is so much more important than non-creating govts- really?  I'd say that it's a coin toss- both create mindless drones...  Sigh, we think we're so fucking valuable...

A sense of humility, people need more of it: especially when Mother Nature comes up to bat.

SDRII's picture

Here is more practical sequence

1. Don't pre-suppose that that US consumers matter anymore than a solution is "desirable" - as the NATO's Rasmussen said after this weekend’s raid a Pakistan life is just as deplorable as an Afghan life (substitute Myanmar consumer for US consumer)

2. This fight isn't about Econ 101 stranded (sunk) cost. It is however about designing and controlling the future system

3. The timing of the debt daisy chain is the only thing that matters (to the US at least)

4. The coordinated power projection via the "Spring" among other things to clamp down on the shipping and land resource (routes) is just the fulfillment side of the dollar dictation policy/strategy (Other things: the fueling of India nuke program via GE agreement, liberating the Iranian fields (maybe even fill the stranded Nabucco), the Clinton visit to Myanmar (as China steps up relations), the new island basing in Korea (despite protests), the Yen implosion (check out how the undersecretary was thrown out a day before the quake for the Okinawa commentary), the cozy Vietnam rhetoric (and drilling), the DSK takedown (according to NY Review but consistent with his desire to haircut the debt per Irish Times), the Berlusconi takedown (Italy gets ~13% of imports from Iran (China more), Putin close to Berlusconi, ENI Russia pipeline deals, etc.) the never ending "FARC" - not ironic in the least - hunt, the V Bout takedown just as the US is aggressively ramping up AFRICOM and moving into Africa (and the squeeze to get home to reveal his Russian sources and Africa routes), the New East Africa regional alliance backed by AFRICOM host Djibouti to invade Somalia, the splitting of Sudan, the Libya land grab, the Yemen land grab, etc).

RT this morning on the US positioning in Syria: "The United States is playing a very dangerous game here. One that may result in Russia taking defensive military actions to protect itself, its military installation and Russian citizens", said one Russian foreign intelligence operative, speaking on the condition of anonymity. (Examiner)


Seer's picture

To sum up: Shortages of PHYSICAL = PHYSICAL war.

People have to ask themselves what happens when there's no more physical to exploit (for growth).  Mere peasants will only be allotted what the BIG institutions/corporations allow.  I'd advise that people would be better off making the break from all of this now, breaking away from these dependencies: can already see people teaming up with the empire (so many people defending barbaric practices because their lives depend on it [my recent run-in was with a long-time friend who clearly lives off of money from defense contract work]).

zebrasquid's picture

Maybe we'll see the Great Obama(buying votes) try an executive order to eliminate interest on those 'fake loans', and make all monthly mortgage payments apply to principal.

So, no free houses, just interest free houses.  And that takes care of the mortgage interest deduction issue, so the IRS will actually do better under this.

JLee2027's picture

He can't do it.

1) These are private contracts that Barry has no control over. 

2) Property issues are state issues, not Federal ones, that again, Barry has no control over what the 50 states choose to do with property issues.


That's why it keeps going on and going on. There is no other solution other than a complete 100% debt failure/forgiveness/repudiation that will cascade across most of the planet.

Seer's picture

"Barry has no control over what the 50 states choose to do with property issues."

Ah, the beauty of diversity!  More possibilities to reach "solutions."

But, there WILL be a "last staw," and the poor camel's back -GROWTH- WILL break.  So much for the (world-wide) consumer society...

the grateful unemployed's picture

okay half the US deficit is fraud (think Iraq, Afghanistan, Medicare and the health insurance industry)

who are you going to stiff? the soldiers, the doctors, the lawyers? somebody has to get their ox sodomized, the people who pay lobbyists to buy the politicians? no not likely..

stiff the underwater mortgage holders who have no skin in the game, well they have no skin in the game, so that means you're stiffing the banks. the 1% in all their various manifestations?

who are you going to stick with the bill? give you a clue the Republicans won't stiff anybody (poor or rich) and that's why they'll probably win this election. that's not an endorsement, and the poor, well they have already been stiffed.

Bernanke is not going to stiff the banks by hurting asset prices.

Obama is not going to stiff Bernanke, although Ron Paul might pull the rug out from under the nearly GSE protection which the Fed has, which is to say, the Feds balance sheet belongs to the US treasury, yes

Ron Paul MIGHT stiff Bernanke. 50/50 chance. if one candidate would run on the STIFF BERNANKE PLATFORM, cut off the Fed from taxpayer guarantee, I guarantee that guy would get 99% of the vote, if people understood what he was saying (50/50) some do some don't

the ignorant always get stiffed


slewie the pi-rat's picture

this is good stuff:  cogent ideas well-present

with the world of TBTF zombies and their corpo-fascist frients which cannot stand an audit w/out facing liquidation, how DO we proceed?

i for one will cheer you as you carry the ball, here, crazy-legs, but i would suggest caution here (paste): We recognize that a law that cannot be enforced is not really a law in any practical sense, so why are we dragging our feet with debt?(end paste/my oomph)

yes law, is what is enforced.  however, enforecement can be selective, in debt.  as can the pressures put on weakness by the banksters be selective.  if collection and BK proceeding are not being enforced, does that neam they can not or will not be enforced? 

if the law can be enforced and you are basing a thesis that it can not be, your thesis may be fallacious in this aspect

Mercury's picture

So where's the part about how government gets smaller and less intrusive?

Show me how my debt to public employee salaries and pensions will be forgiven and I might get interested.

Seer's picture


Prepared?  I doubt that many are...  But, we'll be able to then rejoice in the ABSENCE of govt.  It'll be a fun time to be had by all, what, with extra-judicial killings now being morally acceptable.  Banks will be flying their own drones.  Keep your heads up, people!

trav7777's picture

some sheriffs' depts already have them, thanks to DHS grants

Seer's picture

Yeah, I know.  We're all Afghans now...

A friend of mine says that his community's cops are going to get a "tank."  One of the last places where one would expect trouble, but there you go, this is how POWER doesn't want to cede itself.

Oh, and if you're not driving or commanding one of those things then you're a "terrorist!"

Sometimes I think that people mistook Orwell's warnings as a set of instructions...

licutis's picture

#5 Makes a good point about how banks should take more of an equity stake, this has been very successful with Islamic banking and should be spread to the general western banking system. They can keep the other principals of Islamic banking though.

Mercury's picture

It's more like a principal of bankruptcy settlements where defaulted debt is converted into equity.

Milton Waddams's picture

we are ignoring an even more profound unintended warfare by an entire generation of post-WWII world citizens against the wellness and interests of its own children. How could such a destructive myopia so thoroughly pervade society and bring us this critical historical inflection point?

Study your history.  Boomers, in their most formative years, existed under a cloud of unpredictable, yet inevitable, total annihilation by the a-bomb.  Duck 'n cover.  There was no future, so living for the day was the rage.  And you are here.

Mercury's picture

Well apparently they also managed to vote themselves a lot of fat, long-term entitlements while they were living like there's no tomorrow.

So, if you could mail your taxes in early this year, that would be great...

Divine Wind's picture

While the concept of debt forgiveness is all fine and nice to fantasize about, I just cannot fathom it really happening, particularly in the area of real estate. Perhaps a percentage, but not the full note.

Far too much land involved.

The Man would never allow this much independence to be transferred.

The Man would never allow this much control to slip between their fingers.

Somehow they will remain tethered.

Probably they will end up turning it all into Section 8 housing.

You know, kinda integrate the neighborhoods, let some others move up for a change.



Seer's picture

Desperation and violence trump law (just witness US military actions over the course of the last dozen years or so).

Whether something is "allowed" or not isn't the point.  The System cannot operate going forward (in time) OR in reverse (continued contraction).  Checkmate. "The Man," TPTB etc, have NO* means/tools available to alter what it primarily attributable to declining physical resources: Mother Nature has taken over.

* Oh, but they will TRY.  And right now, given that the virtual war through politics is failing, they will, as history tells us, next serve up the futile attempt/distraction (extend and pretend) via physical war.

trav7777's picture

review the longitudinal study they did on Section 8 and crime trends.  The two maps matched.

Fuck integration.

john39's picture

the debt masters did that jubilee thing many times in the ancient world... and look around today.... do you see any real change?  debt forgiveness is not the answer.   elimination of the system (AND the parasites who have always controlled it) is.

Seer's picture

It would also help if we would learn about exponential growth.

JLee2027's picture

elimination of the system (AND the parasites who have always controlled it) is.

I agree but the only real way that's happening is debt forgiveness. Otherwise, we will be serfs until a bloody revolt occurs. I'd rather see the banks and debt collapse.

Debt jubilee in ancient times was part of the culture and keep the economy in balance. It worked, controlling prices by the amount of time since/or until the next Jubilee. They happened every 50 years, or once per lifetime. Think about that. It prevented huge companies from forming by controlling debt. It gave people a chance to start over, there was no bankruptcy, etc.

razorthin's picture

Free houses for everyone, that's how I see it.

Smiddywesson's picture

History is full of stories of people picking up and moving to where the jobs were.  That's what made America.  The only difference today is we have bred a generation that is well suited to moving out.

Destroying our family ties in the mobile society and our culture through multiculturalism cuts both ways.  The post baby boomer crowd is wired up and not afraid to try new things.  If the rapacious baby boomers try to squeeze them too much, they will vote with their feet like their ancestors and leave the country.  It's easy to do when you have been surrounded with non English speakers all your young life and you don't own any property to keep you here.  

"Sorry, I'd like to stay and support you, but it looks like you baby boomers are going to be warehoused in a government "rest" home.  Adios and thanks for those student loans, I'm off to join the brain drain.  "

Seer's picture

Where are people going to go?

If history repeats itself then I'm not seeing that there's necessarily going to be that many people relocating.

It's been pointed out that relocation just might not be what it used to be, esp for the white folks thinking that they and their fiat will be acceptable in places where it once was, places that will be experiencing a downturn themselves and which might not be all that kindly...

trav7777's picture

the solution is that white people need to start forming cohesive blocs like every other racial group does.  Form some white student unions and get UFC champs with White Pride tattooed on their chests and start some Associations for the Advancement of White People.   You know, progressive shit like that which right-thinking liberals should cheerlead.

Random_Robert's picture


I would love to see you and Jeremiah Wright go mono-e- mono, in a live PayPerView extravaganza...

I think your tendency toward logical argument and your ethical adherence to debate would put you at the disadvantage, and your head would explode long before his would.

I personally believe it would be more advantageous for like minded people to form cohesive blocs, rather than phyle formation based on arbitrary features like skin color...

I could see myself banding with Reggie Middleton. 

mayhem_korner's picture



This is written primarily from the perspective of the debtor, with only an oblique reference to creditors (and that being to fraudulent lending).  Most of the accumulated, unrepayable debt was not amassed through fraudulent lending, and so the big question that this post fails to address is the allocation of default among creditors.  That will determine the extent of the damage more than forgiveness of the debtors.