Guest Post: Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 2)

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Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:48 | 1925893 ZippyBananaPants
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Really, another article about the economy?  On a day when Conrad Murray may go to jail?  I even let my teenager stay home from school to watch the verdict with me.

 I told him he can use the extra time to beat level 11 on angry birds.

 It’s a lunch at Checkers drive inn if he can! 

He has so much trouble with the bird that looks like a cannon ball?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:56 | 1925938 SilverIsKing
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Is it a racial thing?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1926240 Hugh_Jorgan
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No, it is a globalist thing. This piece looks like a soft-defense for the rich OWS crybabies and their handlers. You know, those entities that the sheeple are being conditioned to accept as "safe harbors" after the coming collapse comes to pass. He seems to wax a bit too much on the oh-so NOT-greedy Utopian-minded youth of today. This clown of an author is an obvious shill for the Globalists at the helm of this nightmare.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:46 | 1926542 nugjuice
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I think he actually captures quite well the attitudes of a large part of my generation. When my girlfriend asked why I had moved 7 times in 7 years I picked up her smart phone and said every time you buy crap like this it's a little tiny anchor holding you back from moving and experiencing life. It may not be a big one, but it adds up. Pretty soon it's a car, a house, a phone, a dog, a tv, and before you know it? You're stuck. It's not that we're not greedy, it's that we're not impressed by the current 'haves' and the system that's been oh-so-generously handed off to us. But thanks for coming with a fancy sounding name...generational imbalance. I like to call it robbing from people who don't yet understand or have a choice. But they will.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:56 | 1925941 Jay Gould Esq.
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When I first saw this photo, I had a double-take: When did Greenspan start hitting the Grammy circuit in a felt fedora ? Separated at birth: An aged Elvis Costello, and Alan Greenspan from the Reagan Era:

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Elvis+Costello+2011+MusiCares+Person+...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:13 | 1926038 i-dog
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+1  for the Diana Krall pic.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 16:18 | 1927120 Right-on Left-off
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There was a misplaced come-on here.  The discussion went from the problem of the current monetary system to an espousal of a theoretical social psychology.

Bait and switch.  There is no solution here just as there are no solutions in the blogging.  Just viewpoints and everyone, down to the last individual on Planet Earth has one, his own.

Just another rant of individual self proclaimed 'entitled individualism'.  Appropriately coined by the author himself.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:56 | 1925928 Troy Ounce
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Forget debt forgiveness. Moral hazard all the way. Besides the thousands of civil servants keeping an eye on the new "fair and equitable" society becoming the new ueber class.

What about letting capitalism do its work? Bankruptcy, pain, bankers and politicians going to jail, new political parties, spring clean the system, honest money and Roubini working at McDonalds

Debt jubilee, baaaaad idea.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:14 | 1926041 Boba Fiat
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Agreed.  Just bring back the rule of law. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:24 | 1926102 POpatriot
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I think Tyler is becoming schizophrenic.  You can't like Ron Paul and think this this clown makes any sense.  Debt fogiveness...sure its called BANKRUPTCY.  

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:21 | 1926331 OS2010
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I completely agree! 

What happens after the debt forgiveness?  Just a new debt runup at three times the previous rate (or am I underguesstimating?), since "it will all be forgiven!"  At least the retailers would be ecstatic, but certainly not the taxpayers, who would end up paying for the forgiven debt.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:56 | 1925937 devo
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This is crap, and makes me want to stop reading ZH. Own your decisions. Individual responsibility, live as if government didn't exist.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:12 | 1926030 CPL
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Most people don't think of their governments unless told to. 

 

Debt jubilees...sigh...so completely worthless.  The day this is announced I'm running up millions in credit before hand.  If someone wants to give away a free lunch, let's take advantage of it and make sure that Jubillee is remembered as the biggest fuck up in human history.

 

We won't even have to fire a single shot.  Just purchase like there is no tomorrow.  Better yet, purchase like there is no tomorrow then sell everything for fire sale prices.  Fuck the entire retail chain.  Destroy the illusionary retail sector, empty the malls, flatten the pricing and force a perpetual deleveraging cycle.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:15 | 1926051 i-dog
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You may as well ... everyone else has already.

I gather you have another solution in mind?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:31 | 1926437 CPL
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Running with scissors at full speed on the highway against traffic sounds appealing.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 18:36 | 1927771 Implicit simplicit
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cut-it-out!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 17:07 | 1927380 Willzyx
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"Just purchase like there is no tomorrow"

You are describing hyper inflation.  Your paper credit money will soon be worthless, so exchange it for whatever physical good you can ASAP. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 18:56 | 1927837 Willzyx
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If the banks know a jubilee is coming, don't you think they will tighten lending standards?  Make sure you have credit available to you when that day comes.  Start opening up all the no fee credit cards and revolving lines of credit you can.  Hell, mortgage your house and take some student loans while you are at it

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:37 | 1926162 mcguire
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i agree.  total crap.  furthermore, all of the 'social movements' listed (OWS, etc.) were clearly manufactured movements.  input the Bernays quote here.  put the tin foil hat on, dammit!!!

“The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. …We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. Thi...s is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons…who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.” – Edward Bernays, Propaganda, 1928
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:42 | 1926486 CPL
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As an OWS organiser, yes it was manufactured.  By AdSense folks and Senior Anonymous members.  When the protests went over the rails as a left wing movement, Anonymous cleared out.  Our intention was to start a we're mad as hell movement, not dumb fuck kids in Che tshirts.

 

You can tell how well it all panned out.  Some cop actually walked back and forth pepper spraying dumbasses, pausing only to reload, then carry on.  The tea baggers are manufactured as well.  Initially it started as a "we're mad as hell" movement then disintergrated into hill billy politicks. 

 

Both I've been involved with, more so on OWS, all it takes is micheal Moore to show up and fuck the whole party.  For the Tea Baggers, Palin was the hanging moment.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 17:10 | 1927390 Willzyx
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I remember when OWS started as US Day of Rage a la Tahrir Square.  Now its a kumbaya hippie drum circle

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:59 | 1925945 hedgeless_horseman
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Someone please explain to me exactly why the United States Immigration Service needs to advertise with banner ads on websites like this?

It is like Houston's power company spending millions for football stadium naming rights.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:59 | 1925962 Momauguin Joe
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It's your surf habits coming back at you, brother.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:17 | 1926061 GeneMarchbanks
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hh looking to immigrate? Say it ain't so hedgless.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:59 | 1925963 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

STOP HAVING KIDS. There, I said it, sorry.  

7 billion people is unsustainable. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:03 | 1925985 1835jackson
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Can you spot the liberal democrat here? All sheep on the outside all wolf on the inside just like your avatar.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:12 | 1926028 tarsubil
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Their orders are always for your own good. Trust them.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:18 | 1926065 SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

@ Jacko- keep sipping on the Koolaid my friend.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:45 | 1926537 MJ
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Do us a favor an off yourself first. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:19 | 1926069 i-dog
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Yep. It's not like homo sapiens is headed for extinction through lack of babies!

There should be some kind of captcha required before 'entry'.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1926481 SHEEPFUKKER
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So you're saying you would like your kids to suffer more then? Nice one bro. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 15:15 | 1926708 i-dog
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I was talking about a captcha required to 'enter' the baby-making canal.

You need to loosen up and read sentences twice before making a knee-jerk response.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:19 | 1926075 sitenine
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Thank you SHEEPFUKKER!
5B was unsustainable, 6B was ridiculous, 7B is just stupid.
You religious nuts can start junking at will.
But seriously, if your God wanted humankind to spread like a disease all over this beautiful planet, he sure as hell forgot to provide us the resources to do so responsibly. Wake the fuck up!!!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:42 | 1926180 POpatriot
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Posts like this is how eugenics becomes popular.  

Sheepfukker you must hate the Ron Paul posts about liberty and freedom on this blog.   

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:36 | 1926467 SHEEPFUKKER
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Actually dude, you have got me wrong. I love Ron Paul and am a big supporter. I just don't like crowds, war, environmental destruction, climate change, famine, etc.  Exactly how are these things going to improve under your plan with population growth to inifinity? 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:02 | 1925979 mayhem_korner
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Younger generations are simply not willing to buy into entitlement and consumption at anywhere close to the same scale as their parents.

 

This is a grossly misplaced observation.  Younger generations discard things as "so five minutes ago" with greater speed than any prior generation.  The notion that these generations value social interaction over things isn't compatible with the need of "things" to enable the interaction - iEverythings, tablets, computers, and other multi-media devices. 

Yes the demand profile is different.  But is it a cheaper one? No.  Is it a healthier one? No.  Materiality and so-called experientiality are both secular ills.  The true void remains. 

If what this article is saying is true, the so-called "occupiers" ought not to need to be anywhere specific...they should just relish the experience, right?   But they insisted on being on Wall Street, or in Oakland, Boston, etc.  The reality is they feel they have been denied "stuff" and need to protest it.  That's not a generation seeking just social interaction.

This series is missing the mark badly in my view.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:09 | 1926014 SheepDog-One
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I have to agree its fantasyland. 

'Just forgive the debt, and people need to start thinkin straight again'....well OK but all I see is more entitlement demands and lines around the block whenever Apple has a new gizmo or towels are $1, and student who beg and plead for student loans, then start bitching and protesting about it when the bills start coming in after the 4 year party and the realization that their bachelor in womens studies isnt going to get them jack shit.

Does the author ever encounter actual real people out in public? He doesnt seem to know how fucked they are!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:19 | 1926076 Sunset chaser
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I think he'd be more accurate if he just pointed out that many debts can't be repaid and thus must be defaulted upon, and when that happens lenders might feel forgiving about it or not, but in either case they aren't going to get the money they were counting on.

Whether it's forgiven debt or defaulted debt, it's a debt that won't ever be repaid. Dumbasses shouldn't have lent irresponsibly, and suckers shouldn't have borrowed irresponsibly. All at fault. Nothing to do but wipe the slate clean, kick out the bad apples, and start over.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 15:03 | 1926650 Potemkin Villag...
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it's a debt that won't ever be repaid. Dumbasses shouldn't have lent irresponsibly, and suckers shouldn't have borrowed irresponsibly

It's not that simple... It's not like all the debt out there right now exists because somebody acquired some "widget" with it... If so, there would be a hell of a lot more widgets out there...

- It's interest payments added to debt service (the 'ol "introductory 0.0% interest rate" that balloons to 30% as soon as you have run up a small balance)

- things that were bought at bubble prices (whereby the bubbles werre created by the debt owners out of fraud & "thin air" money)

- Socialization of others debts

Do I have to continue? There has been a well orchestrated plan in effect, all along, to create debt, to INFLATE debt, then to socialize the debt (for the ultimate benefit of a relative few)...

I'm not calling for any mass jubilee (which I think is unworkable anyway)... The only way to handle this will be for individuals to act in their own interests... In aggregate, the problem ought to work itself out over time...

 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:00 | 1926264 Hugh_Jorgan
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Uh... YEAH!?!?!?

This author is a shill. He is here to "shape" our thinking with half-truths, not inform. This is the way of Progressivism, and why our schools turn out so many drones that can't think anymore.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:20 | 1926370 ElvisDog
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The notion that these generations value social interaction over things isn't compatible with the need of "things"

And not only that, but much of the "interaction" consists of staring at a tiny screen and typing things into it. Is that really "interacting" with people or a simulcrum of it? It's not just young people either. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen two people eating dinner or having coffee together and both of them are staring at their fucking cellphones.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:05 | 1925998 Mark123
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Part 1 made more sense.  Also, I think this is written from the perspective of anglo-america....not the 3rd world america that is rapidly expanding and exerting its influence on our society (with the help of the .0001% elite).

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:09 | 1926015 Sunset chaser
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Well I hope this guy is right about all this, because the world would be a better place with less focus on who's got the most money.

Currencies are backed by nothing tangible, meaning we're all just paper trading, whether you like it or not. Living a life of illusions LOL. It works as long as everyone agrees to go along. But the powers that be have abused their privileges so long that young people are beginning to wake up and question the game.

Politicians are increasingly uncomfortable with being seen as supportive of big banks, for good reason.

This dissolution of the symbiotic approach to parasitism between banksters and politicos is the tolling of the bell for most of them, and brings the promise of a new beginning for the rest of us. If nothing else OWS has got it right that the parasitic cooperative between politicos and banksters should end. Ironically, it will end because they overreached, not because of OWS. JMHO

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:13 | 1926021 CrashisOptimistic
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One man's debt is another man's asset.  "Debt forgiveness" requires those little old ladies who loaned that money and depend on the interest payments to pay for heat and food . . . to decide to freeze and starve.

This is an absurd concept.

There is no default or write down, either.  Greece defaulting is a choice on their part.  Banks "agreeing" to it likely will be wriggled through a loophole, undoing any agreement.

When a country decides not to pay, the debt is not expunged.  It can be held on bank books forever, looking for assets to confiscate someday.  There is no international bankruptcy court that can tell a multinational bank, or little old lady, that her bond holdings are worthless.  They, or she, does not have to agree to that.  

They can choose instead to just wait, with the debt compounding, until the country has assets somewhere other than Greece and then go get them.  And in the meantime, make any additional loans contingent on a premium interest rate intended to quietly repay the previous loan.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:28 | 1926121 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea right...WHO takes the loss in 'debt forgiveness'? Not the banks!

Little old lady pensioners get to take the loss!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:12 | 1926029 Imminent Collapse
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Much of what he says resonates with me, especially as I see how my daughter is rejecting materialism and working her ass off creating and expanding a commercial organic farm.  She and her friends do not want ostentatious wealth, but instead value friendship, hard work and family.  Folks, we are heading for an imminent collapse, but you should be happy that this flawed pattern that is being utilized today will be replaced - hopefully with something better.  The new generation (using a broad brush here, but...) understands what is important and is working toward those goals.  The collapse will just validate their beliefs and I just hope that they are wise and experienced enough to lead the charge to remake the system so that it actually works. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:14 | 1926042 CrashisOptimistic
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Touchy feely stuff like valuing friendship, hard work and family lasts right up until they can't fund gasoline or medical care.

 Long about then they choose to value money.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:14 | 1926044 Crab Cake
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I'm going to say this as politely as possible Mr. Author, you don't know shite. "Youth today." "Young People." It is obvious you know nothing about what you speak... well... they seem to like the internet... and twitter... and seem not to like BS because they are informed via the internets. WTF over.

Time to get down with the revolution. Sometimes I really wonder about anyone over 50ish in this country, do you really like getting ass raped, or are you just to stupid/ignorant/brainwashed to notice?

BURN IT DOWN

We ain't free, the laws only apply to the little people, the Constitution may as well be in a trash can, both the political parties are bought and sold, the uber wealthy/corporations/banks run everything, the "free press" is a sick propagandist joke, and that's the fucking truth.

You want to know about young people today? We don't have shit to lose, and we're gonna bring the whole joint down if shit doesn't change soon. Molotov cocktail party anyone?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:33 | 1926148 i-dog
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I think you'll find that many of the most anti-statists on this site are over 50. I am.

The sooner we can crash this fucker, the sooner we can start rebuilding with local solutions to local problems ... and real money. If we don't crash it under our terms, then they will under their terms (which ain't pretty).

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!