Guest Post: Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 4)

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Zeus Yiamouyiannis from Of Two Minds

Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 4)

PART 4: Paying forward: Productivity principles and commitments

Simply put, “productivity” is giving to the future, instead of taking from the future. Parasitism is the opposite: Borrowing from the future to fund present desires without credible connection to future healthy growth. Successful productivity requires the development of beneficial new approaches to value creation and the rigorous identification and confrontation of approaches that destroy value and that destroy the environmental, financial, social, and personal fabric of human endeavor. Debt forgiveness is initially brought into play to address the latter requirement, but cannot be viable over the long haul without affirmative new ways to create and exchange value. Given that we have the collective integrity, self-preservation instinct, human will, and the sense of necessity to confront our broken system, let’s first establish philosophical and practical corollaries to guide debt forgiveness as “giving to the future instead of taking from it”:

1) Vitality and worth of debt forgiveness decisions and policies will be assessed on the opportunities they create broadly and systemically, not simply confine themselves to individual cases.

2) Debt forgiveness will support global health and significantly exceed “sustainable,” including creating surplus productivity and opportunity for future generations and not just mitigating current practices.

3) Debt forgiveness and subsequent laws will ensure future legal lending is tied to the success (productivity) rather than failure (parasitism) of the borrower and will not simply be offloaded to the government.

4) Debt forgiveness will promote autonomy and sovereignty not dependence.

5) Debt forgiveness will develop, utilize, and support the metric of actual “use value” over arbitrary mark-to-model “thing value.”

6) Debt forgiveness will have the requirement of breaking up monopolies standing in the way of a true discovery of “use value.”

Case applications of debt forgiveness that confront parasitism and reward productivity

With the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) movement people are beginning to turn their attention toward fully engaging society’s corrupted and powerful decision-makers and creating their own productive alternatives. Changing a system demands something greater from a citizen than merely voting. It means coordinated action on behalf of the public interest.

The recent success of 650,000 people “moving their money” (4.5 billion dollars) from “too big to fail” banks to local banks and credit unions offers a template of what coordinated effective citizen resistance and proactive alternatives might involve.

How can we effectively administer debt forgiveness that breaks our habit of stealing from the future and creates surplus in health and social wellness? The following examples will briefly analyze current primary debt arenas and dynamics, propose debt forgiveness strategies to confront parasitism (along with citizen strategies to break up monopolies responsible for most of the parasitism), and suggest viable alternatives going from the smallest to largest debt arenas—personal (credit cards), family (mortgages), generational (student loans), national (deficit spending), and global (environmental damage).

Credit cards: The personal is economic

Analysis: Consumer credit debt in America is currently about 0.8 trillion dollars. Two companies, MasterCard and Visa have a virtual monopoly on the processing end of consumer credit (with American Express and Discover rounding out the quartet) Credit card companies are multi-tens of billions of dollar businesses processing trillions in transactions that claim centrality to commerce because they ostensibly reduce transaction time and add ease, convenience, and record-keeping. However, they often are hugely parasitic, charging 3+% to businesses for using their service, 35 dollars for late fees, 30+% interest after missing a payment, and the list of excesses goes on.

With advancing technology, consumer charging and perhaps credit is becoming a relatively simple matter. It certainly would be possible to replace especially the debit function, break up the monopolies, and keep the convenience. Too many people are dependent upon consumer credit to pay for necessities like food, rent, medical care, and even education, so that must be addressed in debt forgiveness around consumer credit.

Intervention: Allow for (and protect/promote the right of) people to file for bankruptcy and discharge their credit card debt completely. If credit companies played fast and loose for on-paper profits and stepped up interest rates, then they should experience the consequences of overreach, i.e. default. Next time they should do a better job at ensuring collateral, looking at income, and being judicious with credit lines. The consequence for the consumer is a bad credit rating and the possibility of being refused future credit.

Credit companies can strike a deal to settle part of the debt in exchange for a preserved credit rating. That is already done now. The point is to wean people from unnecessary credit. For those who rely on revolving credit to meet basic life needs, communities can help by creating local currency based surplus supply and exchange networks for housing, food, certain medical care, and other necessities Making a Living vs. Making a Killing: Creating a Healthy Democratic Foundation for Economies (Part 2).

Going forward, it may simply be beneficial to cut out transnational corporations altogether, and once again re-awaken the tradition of local tabs for goods and services. For online purchases, there is an increasing array of charging options, and more could be developed by savvy citizens, non-profits, and start-ups.

Mortgages: Indentured families

Analysis: According to U.S. census data, mortgage debt totaled 13.8 trillion dollars at the end of 2010, 9.3% of which is delinquent (or about 1.3 trillion). With money like that in play and almost zero regulation, it is no wonder that housing was ripe for extreme manipulation. Between skyrocketing prices driven by easy credit, appraisal fees, tax revenue gains, transfer fees, etc., there was a lot of incentive to let the crooked times roll.

Now we have a full-blown extended housing bust with banks hiding the true nature and value of their mortgage loan “assets” turned liabilities. Homeowners are being caught in a no-man’s land of being unable to renegotiate reasonable principle reductions or tenably refinance, and taxpayers are being asked to backstop the housing debacle through government agencies like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. House sales are depressed. Nothing’s moving. People are holding their collective breath. Many predict and fear hysterical overshoots in housing prices to the downside. Government policies seem intent on trying to reinflate housing prices.

Intervention: It doesn’t seem prudent to simply encourage everyone who cannot pay the current mortgage to default and remove all pricing controls and force the selling off mortgage-related assets to get at the “true value” of unsold and defaulted inventory. Prices probably would crater. Panic likely would ensue, leading to a disordered cascade of insolvencies. However, we cannot stay where we are and tread water for a couple of decades nor can we reinflate the housing bubble. A kind of “middle path” debt forgiveness might be the reasonable course here.

Why not simply establish as part of debt forgiveness a coordinated common metric that housing be pegged to the inflation index for affected regional markets. Housing has followed that inflation index almost to a tee in the last 100 years. This is another way of saying that houses and land do not, in fact, gain relative value, but merely increase in price to keep even with dollar purchasing power. Land and houses in this scenario become a maintenance store of value, then, and not a phony producer of increased value.

Peg the loan interest rates for underwater homeowners to the bank savings rates (which are now almost zero), and add in only reasonable loan servicing costs. The point here is to break even, and move inventory in such a way that neither advantages nor disadvantages parties. If banks become insolvent in this arrangement, then they need to be taken into receivership and processed by the appropriate regulatory agencies.

Homeowners who cannot pay in the new value scale will default and move out. Others will have lower payments, but their homes will be worth nominally less asset-wise. These latter homeowners will have already suffered a hit and learned a lesson about living within their means in the inflated payments and interests they’ve already made. Houses that took advantage of this program would be price and time percent limited on subsequent ownership transfers and rental rates to prevent abuse and to allow more diverse populations to vie for housing in particular areas.

If one then eliminates government tax subsidies associated with mortgage interest, and proposes only fees associated with maintaining and servicing homes (municipal taxes, loan administration overhead, etc.), you have a fairly reasonable approximation of value, a "growth" in price which primarily maintains purchasing power of dollar, but adds no phony or subsidized "wealth". A house becomes something to live in. Nothing added. Nothing taken away. This is consistent with the principle that in the interest of quality of life necessities like basic food, housing, clothing, water, and medical care should not be treated as cash cows.

Moving forward as citizens, instead of focusing on the nominal asset value in home ownership, there is an opportunity here to focus on use-value: “How much does this or that obligation or opportunity support my larger, deeper physical, financial, mental, and spiritual health?”

If the nominal price of a house is too high to keep one out of debt slavery and directly serve deeper purposes, then one set of options is to refuse to buy it, or sell it. Its use value is negative. Instead, share a house, invest in a housing cooperative, or rent a house within your means. Even a house that has lost “thing” value (asset value), has largely maintained its “use value”. By focusing on use value we can combat the human penchant to psychologically obsess over the roller coaster of nominal asset gains and losses.

Sales commissions, especially large ones, invite skewed risk evaluation, conflict of interest, and price inflation. For this reasons reputable sources will always advise potential customers to get a flat-fee or hourly rate professional for financial planning. However, the same logic holds true for realtors and mortgage brokers. To break up those monopolies, citizens could team up to insist on flat-rate assisted selling/buying and to create Wiki-like databases making house purchase information fully transparent and available (in a way that goes beyond MLS listings and National Association of Realtor propaganda).

In addition circle and peer-to-peer lending could be developed further with technology and updated practices to create a pathway around banks and brokers in financing a home. These moves could significantly increase housing market volume and mobility by decreasing transaction costs and eliminating dependence on middlemen.

Student loans: Generational con games

Analysis: Total university student loan debt just recently passed the one trillion dollar mark in the United States, eclipsing the 100 billion mark in 2010 alone. College tuition has risen 7.45%/year in compounded terms since 1978, doubling the inflation rate and far outpacing the already outrageous increases health care costs.

It seems astounding that something, higher education, so intrinsic to personal growth, economic well-being, and the viable future of the world has been held hostage by a monopoly consortium of public and private “higher” education institutions charging such exorbitant and unjustified prices.

No one seems to be advocating for the student. If anything it’s the opposite—an incentive for turnover and student failure is being established. Predatory private lenders gain greater profits through collector’s fees and penalties if students default. Then they send the hollowed-out remainder off to the government guarantor. For-profit colleges like Phoenix University get to keep semester tuition payments even if a student drops out after four weeks. These private agents don’t care how inflated their promises were. They have the students’ money. Legislators don’t seem to seriously care either, since they can use taxpayer money to backstop student loan default after they promise better deals to young voters.

Today’s college students graduate with record debt and enter a world of unprecedented economic contraction. The promised high-paid jobs are not there. Even many of the fairly low-paying entry-level jobs are scarce. An entire generation of aspiring youth is being set up for life-time debt slavery unless some form of debt forgiveness can be worked out.

President Obama’s recent “Pay as You Earn” plan to re-gauge repayment of student debt seems to have some valid ideas like basing loan repayment on a percent of income (10%) and limiting student debt horizon to a maximum number of years. However it only covers debt incurred since 2008 for people who have not yet graduated college. It thus excludes a vast majority of young debtors and nearly all of the current trillion dollars of student loan debt. That is not forgiveness; it’s vote-appeal rhetoric that does not actually challenge the parasitic players.

Intervention: Is there an alternative in the near term? Is there an option besides civil resistance and unilateral intentional default unilateral intentional default? Effective debt forgiveness and applicable policy have to bring everyone in as stakeholders in the post-graduate success of college students and, thus, the larger society that depends upon productive citizens. It also has to recognize and align debt payment with economic productivity curves and economic contingencies instead of simply trying to extract more from the borrower regardless of context.

This means due diligence, support, and re-negotiation if necessary. Private loans should not be government guaranteed, and they should exert the same lending standards as those required for a small business loan. Government loans, especially for financially riskier or disadvantaged students, might accept non-financial productivity currency as debt payment (i.e. pro-social work as a national volunteer).

Colleges who dramatically underperform on their promises and to industry standards should be required to refund a portion of the tuition they received, the same as any business would with defective merchandise. In principle, each student should be granted the opportunity to pay off student loans as percentage of income ending in complete forgiveness after a fixed term (pro-rated to total debt) or erase student debt altogether in exchange for specified pro-social volunteer work.

Going forward, I believe the best way to attack this problem of ballooning, onerous student debt is to preclude the debt in the first place by creating competitive alternatives to the current monopolies of high-priced lending and low-delivery higher education. Why not have community sponsorship for students who commit to coming back and sharing their skills, as we sometimes see for rural doctors?

Why not take advantage of circle and peer lending to borrow from pools of citizen-invested capital and cut out parasitic private lending? Why not develop and accredit alternative education which focuses on practical application of knowledge and makes professional certification a customized process of achieving certain high standards on publically available tests, internships, and practicums, thus rewarding outcomes and innovative, time-saving, and accessible learning?

by Zeus Yiamouyiannis, Ph.D., copyright 2011. All opinions presented in this essay are solely those of the author.

About this series: Given accelerating conditions and trends in Europe, the U.S. and Asia, debt will be renounced, forgiven or written down, and how that process unfolds is now of paramount importance. Will private entities who dined so gloriously on their profits now eat their losses? Can the public who has seen its fortunes commandeered mount an effective response? Will there be convincing practical alternatives to a rigged world economy based in debt expansion and servitude? The answer is "yes" to all three, contends this five-part series by longtime contributor Zeus Yiamouyiannis. The series offers practical analyses and blueprints for liberating the world from debt and thus freeing its people to pursue greater, more productive purposes. CHS

Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 1) (November 28, 2011)

Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 2) (November 29, 2011)

Unleashing the Future: Advancing Prosperity Through Debt Forgiveness (Part 3) (November 30, 2011)

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SheepDog-One's picture

Can this series end please?

GeneMarchbanks's picture

He brings up great questions Dog. Idealistic solutions though. Peter Tchir level naivete.

CPL's picture

Convincing him otherwise would be the same as discussing religion with a born again Christian.  Pointless.


Energy better spent elsewhere rather than attempting to decipher his mixed analogies and confusing around ten separate schools of finance into (well what it looks like to me anyways) a poor man's version of communism, with the benefits of a society that has infinite resources and happy/stupid people that don't mind losing their hard work.


Better argument is why not just kill anyone with a 2:1 debt ratio? 

Simple.  Fast.   Effective.  Outcome is the same.  But without the barnacles slowing down the boat.  If we are in the position to alleviate debt with the wave of a wand, why not the debtors life?


It was common practice in Greek and Roman history until the 2nd century.  Rack up debt, can't pay, off to the slave pit to be sold to cover your debt.  Barring that the debtor didn't kill themselves to expunge their debt from their family by stopping the family linage, then their holdings would be auctioned and their family thrown into the street (unless they had other plans). 

There is a reason the religion of Judism hated the Romans, and it's wasn't because of religious intolerance, it was because most of them borrowed, didn't pay and were sold as slaves to pay their debts.  It ran completely inline though with Jewish law.

If there is a debt jubilee it should be also met with the death jubilee.




eblair's picture

What about the first revolt of the plebs when they marched to Mount Sacer and threatened to start a new city without the patricians?  The patricians buckled because they needed plebs for their army and they cancelled all the debts.

buyingsterling's picture

The bulk of the debts are tied directly to the effectiveness of the fiat money system in racking up debt, and they are government debts. Do you have an idea in mind to end that profligacy, and restore constitutional money? Insisting on every irresonsible party paying their debts, a moral stand, seems like a high price to pay if it means maintaining the fiat system. I don't care so much about some flake who shouldn't have gotten into debt. The way things are going, a lot of that gets socialized anyway when it;s ultimately not paid. He and all his cohorts are insignificant compared to the government debt monster.

Hacked Economy's picture

Huh?  What?

You equate a poorly-written and excruciatingly long article series with  Then throw in another jab at another

Interesting to note that you didn't slam the general concept of a God, or mention Islam, Shintoism, or pet rock worship.  Just the Jew/Christian slice.

Please clarify.

LawsofPhysics's picture

Not soon enough.  The solution remains simple.  Prosecute the fucking fraud and stop rewarding the irresponsible behavior.  Time to reward the savors and innovators who have been doing their jobs, paying their bills and not buying crap they can't afford or trying to live beyond their means.  A real recovery will only come from those savors making careful investment in real productive places that bring real value to the marketplace, not investment in some bullshit "financial instrument" of doom that continues to allow paper-pushing fucknuts to continue stealing wealth by making bad bets and getting bailed out.  

At this point my employees and I welcome the collapse and so should anyone who knows that their labor is of real value.

flattrader's picture

>>>At this point my employees and I welcome the collapse and so should anyone who knows that their labor is of real value.<<<

Do you got this sentence on auto-fill or somehting?...Geezus, give it a rest.

Yeah, we know your "employees" on your 10 ac. will all show us how it's done.

Frankly, you ain't got enough bullets, or like-minded neighbors etc...when OccupyFarm movement rolls your way.

You can throw gold coins at them...oh, wait...all the gold coin will be confiscated by then.

LawsofPhysics's picture

Does it bother you that we know the value of our labor?  We can say it as many times as we like.  Undoubtedly you are a paper-pushing fucknut, otherwise it wouldn't bother you so much.  My company does business around the world with over 200 productive acres of land being managed right now by many veterans.

What the fuck good will "occupy farm" do when there is no fertilizer or crops to begin with.  Get over yourself and your fear and then actually go do something productive, otherwise you might as well rename the "occupy farm" movement SOYLENT GREEN.

Thanks for the laugh troll.

flattrader's picture

>>>My company does business around the world with over 200 productive acres of land being managed right now by many veterans.<<<

Wow...200 ac....Worldwide...Truly a multinational conglmerate.

Man, I hope you are growing pot, because that ain't a lot of acreage where I'm from.

And they will OccupyFarm well in advance of the fertilizer running out...IF it gets THAT bad...that the fertilizer runs out...and you haven't figured out how to farm without it...the value of your labor won't mean squat anyways.

OccupyCompostHeap is my advice to you.

LawsofPhysics's picture

Pretty pathetic trolling.  There is a very real cost for creating captial out of thin air without adding any real value. The world will re-learn this the hard way.  If you consider yourself compost, well that is your business.

trav7777's picture

nah he's're fucking crazy.

You do business all over the world, and you are welcoming a COLLAPSE?  Are you stupid?

CPL's picture

Ummm, I'm in the 340 acre range and most of the city and suburban people won't be allowed to leave their situations.  Where you are is where you are going to stay.  Why do you think the governments of the world have militarized their police?  You aren't going anywhere.


As to the running of a farm, I'm not sure what you think happens is the after school special version of it but to have a profitable farm you have to be as self suffienct as possible.  IF you keep running out and buying things like seed and fertilizer you'll close your doors the same year unless your business startup plan takes it into consideration. 

I'm not even sure if I gave you a yard stick you could show me the size of an acre. With my 340 acres in rotation that's 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile.  (yes I know Canada is metric, the farming community is not)  Well it's a little bigger, than a half mile square but...anycase.


On 100 acres of just corn for seed, gross costs are around 300k to make 240k (ish) if you go outside to buy your seed and fertilizer.  If you don't your net is in the 140k range.  Just heritage corn seed with no genetic mutation btw.  Nothing else, chinese buy it all up and pay in PM's.


It's cash in hand first, then food.  Your idea is food first, cash later.  With that idea I can get nine women to have a baby in a month?  Don't think so.  If you think you are about to jump behind the wheel of a combine to start farming, feel free, just let us know where you need the ashes sent.

If you want to talk/learn about farming, the city of Brockville has courses at St Lawrence Seaway community college, it's a 3 1/2 year science degree with a secondary focus in business administration and tax law.  Might want to look into it, most of you will need it where you are getting assigned.  I teach the seminar on diary barn automation and robotics.  Where a single farmer can lower the farm hands to 3 or 4 per 200 acres instead of the usual 20.  If you are growing food, you need to pay at least ten guys per 200 acres.  Fruit property, you need around 300 per 200 acres because it's mostly manual labour that pays by the pound.  Work fast = get paid more, profit sharing basically, if you paid someone byt he hour...<shudder> no that wouldn't work unless it's the overseer.


flattrader's picture

I'm not sure who you are talking to here, me or LawofPhysics (who has nitrogen cycle issues) but,

>>>Ummm, I'm in the 340 acre range and most of the city and suburban people won't be allowed to leave their situations.  Where you are is where you are going to stay.  Why do you think the governments of the world have militarized their police?  You aren't going anywhere.<<<

I think you are optimistic about where everybody may be forced to "stay."

I've noticed this penchant for rural folk to believe they are somehow safe in an economic-societal collapse because they live out some ways from an urban area have guns, neighbors, gold etc...

Having lived in 3 different rural areas, I can tell you that nothing is further from the truth and merely wishful thinking.


CPL's picture

Why do you think you get to keep your car?  If you are pretending the military doesn't get the first crack at energy resources and limit the distribution of it, you then are dreaming.


Okay here's an exercise for you and it will be exercise.  I'll use my own location.  Google maps tells me that it's a 19 hour walk to Ottawa.  Now load up a pack with water, food for a couple days for the walk there and then walk back.  Now do that with a pick up group of people that are more than likely strangers, armed to the teeth and attempting to find resources to bring back...maybe looking to stay?

Sure you won't run into the old Oregon trail scam?  You join up with a group only to be robbed blind, killed and thrown in a ditch.  Then the organizers go back, make up stories of restless natives and collect the next bunch.  If talking about a city like Ottawa, there are a million and half people here, most of them dumb as bricks with a half idea in their head of what country life is like.

You don't have to explain to anyone in a rural area about work, except the welfare bums of course.  it starts before dawn and ends when the animals are sleeping and you hope nothing happens during the night.


For a well trained team, I would say no problem.  For a pile of bumblefuck suburbanites that will still be wondering why the water isn't working and the gas station hasn't got any gas, ummmm...I'm leaning to a Jonestown outcome.


The laws and real life implimentation practice to control people from moving are already in place.  Take a greyhound lately?  TSA is there for you.  Cab?   DHS logs all trips, for those dumb enough to think the cab is private, it's not.  Photo, credit card information has been take, if a CC is used. 


No you won't get to keep your car.  You get to stay where you are.  Hope you like it until you are assigned somewhere else.

flattrader's picture

Funny that you think everyone is a bumblefuck suburbanite...and that distance is what will keep you safe.

There are a lot of ex-military, ex-police.  And a nineteen hour walk is not that far.

>>>Now load up a pack with water, food for a couple days for the walk there and then walk back.<<<

Many people have done that...with a 30 lb. pack.

A nineteen hour walk is about about 60 mi. at a slow to average pace of about 3 mi. per hour.

Again, not that far...that's your problem.

But, good luck with that.

trav7777's picture

HAHAHAHA...the rural areas in other collapsed states were the ones without power and any semblance of services.

ElvisDog's picture

Thank you, CPL. I've been writing for years to various ZH cubicle dwellers who think they will bug out to the country and grow their own food that farming is really hard and takes specialized, experience-based knowledge and skills.

VekTor's picture

I'm not even sure if I gave you a yard stick you could show me the size of an acre. With my 340 acres in rotation that's 1/2 mile by 1/2 mile.  (yes I know Canada is metric, the farming community is not)  Well it's a little bigger, than a half mile square but...anycase.

Not big on math, are you? 

CPL's picture

It's 640 square acres to a square mile.  4840 sq yards to sq acre.


And for this conversation I'm not breaking out a calculator.  If you want to know the leveraged decay on an x2, x3, no problem we'll run the numbers. EBITDA?  Sure.


This?  No. 


Some pencil neck geek talking trash on food production on farms there's no need to type longer than 30 seconds into the text entry field.


Now back to work bumblefuck.

VekTor's picture

A plot that's a half-mile on each side is 160 acres, and 340 acres is not "a little more" than 160.  It's more than double.  That's not a question of being off by a touch.  It's not a swag.  It's basic ignorance about how acreage is figured.  A plot that was a half-mile by one mile would have been close to the cited 340 acres that "you have in rotation".

And for the record, moron, it's not "square acres".  Acres are already a measure of area.  "Square acres" is as meaningless as "cubic gallons".

Hacked Economy's picture

+1 squarish cubical chuckles!

Teamtc321's picture

Is this hinting the use of more SDR's?

Sophist Economicus's picture

SDRs seem to have made a resurgence in internet chatter since Currency Wars hit the bookstores.   Now we have all the usual Internet regurgitators 'warning us' about them -- you know, Krieger, Two Dumb Minds, etc....

flattrader's picture

Thanks.  THAT explains it.

Criminy freakin' sakes.

It does make for good clickbait on ZH though.

HistorySquared's picture

Let's substitute a system where people can lend unlimited amounts with no consequences for one where people can borrow unlimited amounts then walk away with no consequences. Ya, no moral hazards there. 

stop.snitching's picture

On a different note...Italian 5Y/10Y now inverted again! Saweet. A huge intraday turnaround of about 9 percent!!!

Normalcy Bias's picture

Oh, Dear God! It's a five-part series...

topcallingtroll's picture

Probably we dont need a government policy of systemic debt forgiveness.

Recognize existing losses and allow the bankruptcy system to do its cleansing of the system. Nobody gets freebies, neither debtor nor lender.

Debt forgiveness as a govetnment policy for specific sectors merely invites more moral hazard.

DOT's picture


I kept mine, and now I am expected to gladly allow others to default with no consequence.


Only at the threat of violence is this possible.

Fortunes Favor's picture

Does this panic selling prove an investment thesis wrong? It does if you believe jumping off a cliff is right because everyone else is doing it.

The Axe's picture

FISHER  getting all crazy in Dallas...."social unrest coming to America!!! if we don't control the deficit!!!"  probably drinking some scotch for lunch!!!!

buyingsterling's picture


The 'Republican Jewish Coalition' has declined to invite Ron Paul to their nationally televised debate on Dec. 7th. Apparently, Paul is 'misguided' and'extreme'. More here:


You can email the RJC here:

And you can reach their ladies' group here:

mess nonster's picture

Yeah.. didn't read it. Dude (author), you're 3500 years too late! Moses came up with the whole debt-forgiveess plan, like, before you did. Moses even claimed a higher source, but guess what good that did? The whole debt-forgivness trip was IGNORED, IGNORED! Only once in the history of mankind was the plan enacted. (By good ol' Hezikiah, Ron Paul's previous incarnation) Whoop te do for that idea... put it in the round file, along with Tesla and Ron Paul, and all other hope for humanity.

docj's picture

And once again, all we need for this "plan" to work is the repealing of all basic human instancts and milennia of in-bred human nature. Plus some basic re-working of fundamental mathematical principles and Devine intervention.

Aside from that though, it's rock-solid.

steve from virginia's picture


Everyone wants 'cleansing', everyone wants the easy solution that avoids them and hits someone else, preferrably in China or France. Everyone is playing the same 'hot potato' game.

Can't forgive the debt because industrial enterprises are inherently non-productive. Business profits are borrowed: even if all debts could be made to disappear tomorrow by magic, new debt in amounts equal to the old would have to be taken on the following day, so as to allow the various businesses to function.

Keep in mind also:

 - Wealth equals debt (except for the following),

 - At some point the costs of managing any surplus (wealth) become greater than the surplus itself (this is Steve's First Law): wealth is constrained by physical and relational limits, debt can expand to the point of absurdity.

At the point of absurdity the loss of value of a fraction of the debt wipes out all of the wealth. This is manifest by the inability to let any finance institution fail, the costs associated with one large finance company would wipe out all the wealth.

There is no magic bullet to deal with our indebtedness, sorry. What is needed is careful deleveraging and reduction in our arbtirary industrial surpluses (wealth). The large part of this is resource conservation.

We either conserve or conservation is going to be shoved up our asses by events out of our control ... and time is running out.

DOT's picture

I want a claw back. Make that a**h***, Jack Walsh, pay it back.

....and all the rest.

El Viejo's picture

Wasn't there a Ceasar in the distant past that was murdered by creditors shortly after proposing a "middle road" path??

Leraconteur's picture

No mention of the billions worldwide whose pensions and super-annuities are keyed to the debt he wants to eliminate. No debt, no bonds, no retirement.

ElvisDog's picture

I've been critical of this series so far, but his suggestions for fixing housing, credit card, and student loan debt have some merit, in particular the idea of removing federal guarentees of student loans.

Muenkey's picture

Hey wait...let me first go and buy the yacht, mansion and Rolls Royce, then you can have your jubilee. What total, utter nonsense.

Elmer Fudd's picture

The debt is going to be inflated away. Period.  And they dont care about YOUR debt, that needs to be paid off. Let's get off the magical fairy tale endings, its kind of silly and getting old.

flattrader's picture

Yep, inflated or hyper-inflated away as it will likely get out of control...then deflationary collapse.

Let's get on with it.

I would like it to be winding down by the time my kid is an old man and my grandkids stand a shot on the upside of the delfationary collapse part.

flattrader's picture

Yep, inflated or hyper-inflated it will likely get out of control...then deflationary collapse.

Let's get on with it.

I would like it to be winding down by the time my kid is an very old man and my grandkids stand a shot on the upside of the deflationary collapse part.

bankruptcylawyer's picture

ive read all 4 parts,

in addition to bruce krasting and cd, this series has been one of the best on zh. not just bitching about problems and predicaments ---- this offers solutions.

i for one would offer that a full wholistic reform of bankruptcy and recievership and foreclosure and debtor creditor default laws----

a massive simplification and streamlining of the law--- and the BUREACRCY/court/advocacy system is necessay.

LawsofPhysics's picture

You got one thing right.  Start by prosecuting the the fucking fraud.

DOT's picture

".....a massive simplification and streamlining of the law--- and the BUREACRCY/court/advocacy system is necessay."


Which means it will never happen.

Simplicity and Bureaucracy are opposing forces.

btw, all lawyers should use spell check.....just sayin'

JLee2027's picture

As usual, no one touches Child Support, the biggest con of all. While everyone should support your children, no one should be REQUIRED to do it as the Government dictates. This is tryanny, not freedom. Here is how it works:

1) The Government invents a "debt or obligation" where none exists. This alone violates your God-given human rights as Father and head of the Family and is evil. God choose you to raise, support, and protect your family not the Government of Men.

2) The Government will then hold you in Contempt of Court if you refuse to pay the debt that they created. Yet, there are ways around this that are perfectly legal. One is have your child live with you. Refuse any child support, and raise the child yourself. If Mom is greedy and refuses to allow your children to live with you - then you need to - Two, offer to use the money for private school or college instead of sending an alimony check. Three, if it gets rough, put the money in an escrow account until she agrees. Don't tell anyone where the account is, unless you want it seized.  Four, stick to your guns. If you can survive 30 days in jail (about the max they will do - since you aren't refusing ); you will win.  Remember, this money is for the child, not for Mom's hair, nails, and a new car. The more the court and Mom scream at you, the more you can feel satisfied that you are correct. Tell the truth, and do not lie. Let them lie, because they will. That's how you can tell you are right and they are wrong. This is a system of pure evil and must be changed.

3) State/Local Governments collect 55% of the "debt" back to itself in the form of processing fees and a 50% (change to 30% may have happened, don't know)  reimbursement/well-done from the Federal Government. This is a self-funding system to continue the scam. If you pay Child Support, avoid paying through the system because you are indeed funding this evil directly. Pay to the Mother instead and keep written receipts. Show the receipts when you need to avoid punishment. Do not listen to them, they you are REQUIRED to pay to them. You aren't, this is false. Pay to Mom and get a receipt as I said.  The money is for the child, not for THEM.  The courts can do nothing as long as you pay. No one is going to punish you because they cannot collect their 55%.

4) Like Student Loans, Child Support cannot be discharged in Bankruptcy. This is a classic definition of debt slavery where a debt cannot be discharged, ever. It must be paid. However, Mom can agree to forgive the child support in return for other concessions and the Government can't stop her. Figure out what she wants/needs and do a deal.  Keep control and you save stress and legal fees.

5) You will lose in court. The breadwinner (Male or Female - see Britney Spears) always loses. The Breadwinner is always harshly critized and lied about while other Party is praised.  This is the excuse to increase Child Support awards and force you to pay attorney fees to the other side. Facts and truth don't matter very much. What matters is who has the money that they can steal. That is the key to the system and shows its bias. So avoid the court, they are corrupt. 

Above all else, this is your children and your family. You must protect them from evil.  Ask God for help, and he will. He's on your side on this issue.

TeresaE's picture


Wow, hang out in the hood much?

Cause the whole "I'm not paying because mom lives in the house too" is really, really, popular there.  Goes well with the whole "baby-daddy" thing and multiple kids that you can't afford.

If you don't want to support YOUR children, it is simple, don't have sex.  Or, better yet, *snip* *snip*

Sorry buddy, while I agree that the state & courts are evil and their methods insane, to allow men to walk away isn't going to SOLVE anything.

Except to create MORE women and their broods on the public tit.

I didn't have your orgasm, so why in the hell should I be forced to support your kid?

JLee2027's picture

As I said above, you can always tell who's right and who's wrong by the lying.  Why are you lying about what I said TeresaE?