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Guest Post: US Citizens Now One Step Closer To Becoming Permanent Tax Slaves

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

US Citizens Now One Step Closer To Becoming Permanent Tax Slaves

This week, the universally stupid brainchild of US Senators Chuck Schumer and Bob Casey known as the Ex-PATRIOT Act inched a bit closer towards becoming law.

‘Ex-PATRIOT’ is an absurd acronym that stands for “Expatriation Prevention by Abolishing Tax-Related Incentives for Offshore Tenancy”. I call it the Tax Slave Act… and it proposes three key provisions:

1) Individuals who are deemed, in the sole discretion of the US government, to have renounced US citizenship in order to avoid US taxes, will be permanently barred from re-entering the United States.

2) Such individuals will also be required to pay a 30% capital gains tax to the United States government on ALL future investment gains derived from the US. Currently, non-citizens who do not reside in the US pay no US capital gains tax.

3) These proposals are RETROACTIVE, and, if passed, would apply to anyone who renounced his/her citizenship within the last 10-years.

During a Sunday interview with ABC News, House Speaker John Boehner threw his support behind the bill… certainly a big step towards its eventual passage.

Let’s pause briefly for a little history lesson–

Dart Container Corporation was founded in 1960 by William F. Dart, the man who first perfected the design of styrofoam. Dart Container is today a multi-billion dollar family-owned company with thousands of employees and operations around the world.

In the early 1990s, brothers Kenneth and Robert Dart, heirs to the family fortune, renounced their US citizenship and became citizens of Belize and Ireland, and set up residency in the Cayman Islands.

Around the same time, several other wealthy Americans renounced citizenship, including Carnival Cruise Lines founder Ted Arison (who obtained Israeli citizenship), Campbell Soup heir John Dorrance (Irish citizenship), and fund manager Mark Mobius (German citizenship).

President Clinton was furious, and in 1996, he pushed Congress to pass a series of financial penalties for people who renounce citizenship. At the time, a ‘renunciant’ had to continue filing US tax returns for 10-years after renouncing.

Effectively, though, this penalty was a tax on worldwide income, not an exit tax on assets.

Fast forward to the mid-2000s, a time when the asset bubble was at its peak; the stock market was at its all-time high and real estate prices kept going up.

The Bush regime passed a series of changes to expatriation rules, dropping the income tax filing requirements in lieu of charging a one-time exit tax on assets.

In this way, the government was able to derive a much larger payment up front based on total assets rather than chasing around a former citizen for a piece of annual income.

In the years since the exit tax on assets was established, two things have happened:

1) The number of Americans renouncing US citizenship has risen steadily, from 235 people in 2008 to 1,780 last year (according to Schumer’s office).

2) The asset bubble has burst, and assets are worth much less than just a few years ago. As such, the government isn’t collecting as much revenue from the exit tax.

My sense is that the government has been watching the number of expatriates rise over the years, and simultaneously watching the value of the exit tax fall… and they’ve been looking for an excuse to make sweeping (i.e. retroactive) changes.

Eduardo Saverin is the perfect excuse. The Facebook co-founder’s recent renunciation of US citizenship has become a rallying cry for politicians to go back in time and steal money from former citizens retroactively…plus establish a larger base for future tax revenues.

This is a truly despicable thing to do considering that these former citizens followed the appropriate rules at the time, paid the tax, and moved on with their lives. Now Uncle Sam wants to go back in time to unilaterally change the deal, and expect everyone to abide even though they’re not even citizens anymore. The arrogance is overwhelming.

More importantly, this bill is also a major deterrent for people who are thinking about renouncing US citizenship today.

The passage of this law will undoubtedly cause many people who were considering expatriation to abandon the idea altogether as the thought of being permanently barred from entry is too much to bear.

It’s truly extraordinary that the Land of the Free has deteriorated to the point that the government must now resort to threats, coercion, and intimidation in order to keep its most productive citizens inside.


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Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:41 | 2451636 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Welcome to socialism!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:43 | 2451643 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Welcome to fascism-  fixed.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:49 | 2451660 pods
pods's picture

Can you smell that?  That freedom smell?  Nothing else smells like that.

Smells like...............tyranny.


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451689 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Its utterly abhorrent that at a time like this people aren't prepared to pay their fair share; while we have important institutions wobbling under the strain all people on zero hedge are worried about is how much they should be asked to chip in. ASK NOT WHAT SOCIETY CAN DO FOR YOU BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR SOCIETY! This needs to be drilled into our school children so we don't end up with another generation like the one that lead to the financial crisis through greed, selfishness, and lack of social responsibility. I often agree to work over time in my job of regulating small businesses for the government. People on ZH need to start living in the real world; I'm out there making a real difference every day; I get a good paycheck and huge job satisfaction. They tell me there aren't chances out there - well I'm living proof there is...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:06 | 2451738 pods
pods's picture

Comforting to know that a person with "psycho" in his moniker is working overtime for the government to fix things.


By the way, Hitler made a difference too.


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:13 | 2451783 moondog
moondog's picture

Sociopaths make great politicians, CEO's....and government regulators.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:21 | 2451822 RafterManFMJ
Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:25 | 2451840 Precious
Precious's picture

... the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:30 | 2451863 casey13
casey13's picture

I bet most Americans though the southern border fences were built to keep people out! 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:17 | 2451985 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture


Highly recommended above. Mind-popping. Sad fact is that a very large part of the world is in tax-by-treaty slavery to the Queen of E. The sun never did set on the BE. It is just behind a cloud. I sense this Olympics is somehow a key window. Expose some nonsense to the world, sleight of hand, 2Pac live a Loollaaapppalooza, somebody will arise.....

Munich comes to mind. 

But the tax slavery part? Old pope Bonafice will have to revoke his Papal Bull of 1273 or thereabouts and then on down, via Venice to today.

Chattle and Serf and now Tax Payers (Energy Units) in their eyes.




Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:39 | 2453301 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, at least the assholes are showing their true colors.

They believe earnings (legally aquired) are theirs to toy with, not the one who earned retroactively screw around with.

And everyone wonders why no one wants to do business here or why anyone would want to 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:33 | 2451876 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

What % of your wealth would you give up for freedom?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:39 | 2451912 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

This is a silly threat.  We all know it is extremely easy to sneak into this country.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:46 | 2451940 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

You'll be surprised at just how effective the turf is protected against these renunciants.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:40 | 2451915 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Hey maybe while Congress is at it, it could just write a law to require everyone on the planet, regardless of where they were born, to pay US taxes...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:48 | 2451950 illyia
illyia's picture

How about a law to retroactively make OTC off balance sheet derivatives illegal? With a big enough fine we could kill a pc of the debt !

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 17:16 | 2452837 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

I think this proposed law is really aimed at stopping the Mexicans from fleeing the USA. LOL.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:42 | 2451925 Precious
Precious's picture

Freedom is 100 percent the absence of materialism.  A sliding scale.


Freedom <- - - -> Materialism

100 - - - - - 50 - - - - - - 0

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:04 | 2452063 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose... (and here in the FREE USA, they are sure take everything you have until the point you have nothing left to lose)

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:45 | 2452388 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

what if i just owns golds?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:05 | 2453539 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Like Tyler Durden said, "The stuff you own ends up owning you."

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 04:07 | 2454160 ManOfBliss
ManOfBliss's picture

Tyler Durden in Fight Club was also an anarcho-communist.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:58 | 2452003 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Moondog's post reminded me,


Understanding how psychopaths manipulate others is key to improving the odds you won’t get duped in the future.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:17 | 2452169 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

To be a successful psychopath you first have to be a con artist and it helps to look good in a suit.

You really can't blame people for wanting to leave after all corporations left in the 80s. 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:07 | 2451741 Joe The Plumber
Joe The Plumber's picture


An MDB clone

And not bad for an amateur

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 17:50 | 2452941 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



theMAXILOPEZpsycho = MDB ???

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:07 | 2451743 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

If you possess it you don't own it...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:10 | 2451758 denny69
denny69's picture

We're not being asked to 'chip in'. We're being asked to 'chunk in'. Big difference. Wish you hadn't mentioned 'regulating small businesses'. Stop doing that right now and turn your sights upon Goldman and Morgan. If you've read statistics on small businesses, you've most likely noticed that they're going belly up at a rate faster than ever before. We're turning into a nation of corporations, not entreprenurial enterprises. You should be trying to help small businesses survive, not helping them become even more overburdened than before. I hope your 'satisfaction' isn't connected to shutting them down or making them pay more taxes.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:40 | 2452356 azusgm
azusgm's picture

I think that was >sarc< I smelled while reading his post. At least I hope so.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:12 | 2451770 moondog
moondog's picture

Thank you for your service to the people of these United States. Thank you for your selfless work in providing government regulation for small businesses. Thank you for working overtime. Thank you for the value you add to our society. /SARC

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:14 | 2451786 Mercury
Mercury's picture

 They tell me there aren't chances out there - well I'm living proof there is...

Yeah, seeking rents for the government.  No argument here.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:21 | 2451827 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

"Fair share"?????

Let's start and end with that.

WHO THE HELL SETS THAT BAR? Some asswipe taxwipe and members of Congress - most all who ought to be impeached.

Jesus Mary and sound like a fucking Obama speech.

Banks? Important Institutions? Then you go on to say "the financial crisis through greed, selfishness, and lack of social responsibility." THAT WAS THE BANKS, POLITICIANS AND GREED, RIPPING OFF THIS COUNTRY AND THE WORLD.

Wake up fool. It's douchebags like YOU who need to be put in their place. "Work overtime" to regulate small businesses.

I just have a 2" pecker - and take it out on others every single day. Huge satisfaction - what a cunt.

Just the phrase "drilling it into our children" ought to get you a swift kick in your self-righteous balls.

IT IS WE WHO LIVE IN THE REAL WORLD. You live in your own world of douchemania.

Go troll somewhere else.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:23 | 2451834 William113
William113's picture

Your not from here are ya BOY.

Remember these people they are the ones who say I didn't vote for that person or I didn't support that. They are your neighbors watch them closely.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:33 | 2451882 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

>my job of regulating small businesses for the government<<

He's a useless government shill.

Sucking blood out of productive economy.

Somehow he confuses having government job with being successful.

We'll see how successful you are when there is no money to pay for lazy bums like you and you get thrown out by your beloved government.

And always remember you are paid with money stolen from good working people!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:47 | 2451944 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

For the record. I am not paid to come onto ZH and see what government opponents are saying. However, the reason I do come here is I think it might be fruitful to find out what government opponents are saying. It helps me do my job better, as I get inside the mindset of society's opponents. Eventually, I may produce a report and present it to my superiors - that's the kind of attitude you guys could do with if you want to get ahead.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:55 | 2452000 illyia
illyia's picture

In the middle of the last century they called them Brownshirts. What shall we call you?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:07 | 2452084 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

He's pulling your leg.  I think.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 17:56 | 2452959 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Sounds like MDB.  I recognize the style …. Sneaky, LOL, does anyone else see it?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:13 | 2453566 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

MDB? No matter. But I noted that he referred to ZH readers as "society's opponents." Well, if by "society" he means an Establishment that is trying to destroy the rule of law, shred the Constitution, invoke a nanny police state, tax us into early graves, destroy our national heritage and wealth, while lying to us at every juncture, then yeah, I'd say most of us are probably "society's opponents." I sure as hell am.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:01 | 2452033 suteibu
suteibu's picture

OH! A report! Why didn't you say that to begin with? Surely there is nothing more productive than some low-level bureaucrat filing a report with their superior in order to make a career-enhancing there? To be sure it will lead to millions of more jobs created by the government.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:03 | 2452052 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

"Present it to my superiors", well, that doesn't narrow the field very much.

"That is the kind of attitude you guys could do with if you want to get ahead."

Get ahead in a political/government system?  You are kidding right?  I assume your posts are sarcasm because nobody could be this stupid.

Get off our blog.  You add no value.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:15 | 2452158 Dick Buttkiss
Dick Buttkiss's picture

Pretty clever, I must say, Maxi. Enough, at least, to yank the chains of a handful of credulous ZHers.

Will you be working overtime today to make sure that small businesses stay that way before succumbing to regulatory suffocation?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:30 | 2452279 erheault
erheault's picture

Your beloved government has every american Man Woman and child in debt over 80 thousand dollars each and it is growing by the minute, We are heading for 16 trillion in debt a trillion seconds = 20 thousand years,  Pass that along to your superiors. 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:33 | 2451883 hankwil74
hankwil74's picture

Those who can, do.  Those who can't, regulate.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:48 | 2452416 El Viejo
El Viejo's picture

Yeah, here is a good example: "You must use energy efficient light bulbs"


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:44 | 2451933 Hopeless for Change
Hopeless for Change's picture

People in government jobs need to start living in the real world, not this revolving door between academia (indoctrination of liberalism) and government.  That death sprial needs to be upended.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:52 | 2451980 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

We can all just renounce our citizenship in spirit and remain right here in situ, removing our property, as best we can, from the state's grasp and refusing to be assimulated into the borg.  Resistance may not be futile after all, and does not need to be violent to be effective. As things progress there is no way they will allow you to keep any property they can get their hands on in any case. They will need it to pay the bills and support the lifestyles of your betters, so you may as well abandon hope now, while it may do some good.  Practice civil disobedience every day.  Embrace it as a lifestyle. TheMAXILOPEZpsycho is commiting necrophilia.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:23 | 2452221 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

If this passes - it'll just be another govt. sponsored ad for PMs and another nail in the coffin for crumbling Rome.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:00 | 2452024 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

You did an amazing job to get -65/0 thumbs down. I would say this is unprescendented on zerohedge.   You must be way up the food chain where you never produced anything of value for anyone ever in your life and think that arriving at a bank or gov't agency every day is a productive activity.  Good luck when things get bad.  Have you ever changed the oil on your car, changed a faucet washer, changes a shoe lace that wore?  I think you take the cake for clueless.   

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:11 | 2452094 Antifederalist
Antifederalist's picture

Pay their fair share?  How about the 50% of the population that pays ZERO tax?   I would guess the average Zero Hedge reader is employed in a productive position, does not suck on the government tit for benefits or a salary and pays taxes.  That is more than you can say for half of our country.  Including yourself.

theMAXILOPEZpsycho:  you need to educate yourself.  Collectivism does not work.  It is not greed selfishness and lack of social responsibility that caused the financial crisis.  It is fiat money, crony capitalism, socialism and lack of rule of law that caused the financial crisis. 

Educate yourself, then come back with something useful to say.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:09 | 2452100 Mudduckk
Mudduckk's picture

I'm confused. Why does my small business need to be regulated by you? I have customers because I'm good at what I do. I have earned their love. I have a few employees beacuse I have more customers than I can handle all on my own, and I have found people good at what I do that can accomplish the goals I set for them.  I have earned thier respect.  

What have you earned? 

I make a meager profit.  I have a conundrum.  DO I pay an accountant to assist with tax compliance? or no?  If I do, I can kiss away most of my net profit.  Like I said, I make a meager profit.  I like having net for investment and not compliance, soooo...I do my own taxes thank you.

Each week, I live in fear that I will someday need to dial the 1-800, "Do you owe back taxes?" hotline.  That I will get raked over the coals by some IRS bureaucrat.  

Guilty of what exactly?

Being good at what I do, and crappy at tax compliance.

So I exactly do you enhance what I do? More importantly...what aspect of what I do requires governement regulation? 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:34 | 2452309 malikai
malikai's picture

I gave you +1. I think this is some good shit. 8/10.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:40 | 2452685 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

Fuck off,troll.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:12 | 2453200 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

What you don't understand and many of the wealthy and well known people in finance know, it's that eventually they won't be allowed out at all.  You see they are looking at the US and see the writing on the wall, they know eventually the US govt. won't be able to pay any of it's liabilities to the baby boomers and even it's citizens working.  So what will they do, they will go after people and places with money and take it away from them.  And look at poor you and me, they will make it so hard that we won't be able to leave the US and will be stuck in the third world US of A. 

Eventually they will come back, but after the storm has went through and the bad politics and govern techniques are gone.  I don't blame these people, not one bit.  In fact it's a brave thing to give up your citizenship for another country, because in effect your not American anymore.  I can't do it and won't for two reasons.  One, I'm scared pure and simple.  I was born in the US and that is what I know (the devil you know remember).  Like all countries and all civilizations, the people of said country know the nuances and such to get around the country easy and without trouble.  And two, I'll be damned if someone is going to run me out of a country that is just as much mine as it is theirs. 

The US could have made this planet into a paradise, we could have had colony on the moon and mars by now.  But the problem was that many wanted a paradise without THOSE PEOPLE.  They wanted a paradise for their people but not for the others and so spent all their capital and all their energy in finding ways to stop the others and in the long run it won't work.  Now they are fighting over whats left and the elite and rich know it and want out. 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 19:19 | 2453230 ozzzo
ozzzo's picture

I too find it utterly abhorrent that some of my fellow citizens aren't prepared to pay their fair share to support important institutions such as TARP, QE, QE2, QE3, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and elsewhere, and our most important institution, the nanny/welfare state which keeps so many of us in a state of barely-alive helplessness. These valuable institutions are wobbling under the strain of politicians and their puppet masters stealing everything that isn't nailed down and most of what is, and of course it is our responsibility to sacrifice and give everything we have to support these institutions. Jamie Dimon's gold toilet is in danger; we must save him no matter what the cost!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:47 | 2453502 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Wait, wait - it's MDB with a new psued...

Read it again carefully - same old troll, new name. This time he's a 'worked my way up  from minority poverty to a good government job" guy, but it is the same troll.

And overdoing again...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 22:38 | 2453771 JeffB
JeffB's picture

You ought to get a nice stringer with that one.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 01:57 | 2454062 Psyman
Psyman's picture

"Lopez" needs your money to pay for his illegal alien relatives and his anchor babies.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:57 | 2451698 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

"non-citizens who do not reside in the US pay no US capital gains tax"

The idea we have to point this out at all is a bit ridiculous.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:40 | 2451919 SHEEPFUKKER

Meanwhile, gold is being raided..........again. 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:49 | 2451952 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Perfect. So long as they keep paying me in cash, that's good.  The longer it stays low before popping up, the better.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:49 | 2451663 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Abandon Ship- final edit

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:17 | 2451805 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Mr. Chuckieshumer..

Tear down this wall!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:36 | 2451898 Precious
Precious's picture

Schumer is always trying to prove he has a bigger dick than Pelosi.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:50 | 2453506 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

And failing at it again...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:52 | 2451676 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture




Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:12 | 2451768 Mercury
Mercury's picture


Marla covered this issue two years ago:

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:18 | 2451813 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Maybe we'll finally get that border fence.. to keep us in.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:24 | 2451835 guinea
guinea's picture

Welcome to the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 18:12 | 2453005 KandiRaverHipster
KandiRaverHipster's picture

somehow you recieved mad upvotes for stating the obvious.  ZH is now like reddit.  yuck.  still, i up voted too.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:17 | 2452175 e-man
e-man's picture

Note to Senate: Back in the good old days, they didn't go to so much trouble with unenforceable laws.  They simply put a wall up around the country, with lots of mines, barbed wire and machine gun turrets.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:17 | 2453576 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Is this socialism of fascism?

Socialism and fascism are not mutually exclusive.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:41 | 2451639 MARGINKARLANDTH...


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:42 | 2451641 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

LMFAO!  What is this an article from 1910?  The "tenants" of the United States became tax slaves in 1913!!!!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:48 | 2451655 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

1865: freed the black man.
1913: enslaved the white man.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:54 | 2451680 malikai
malikai's picture

1913: Indentured every man, woman, child, and unborn child, regardless of planetary location.

Fixed it for ya.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451692 Matt
Matt's picture

Yes, but now you are an American Tax Slave even if you leave and renounce citizenship. The only escape is death!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:35 | 2451885 malikai
malikai's picture

Estate Tax. See? There's an iTax for that, too!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:40 | 2451917 bdc63
bdc63's picture

did you forget about the estate tax?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:46 | 2451649 THECOMINGDEPRESSION

The fascist state is gaining over at the TFMETALSREPORT. They are kicking posters off for posting PICS! Make the wrong statment, post or remark against a poster..BANG you're gone.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 01:59 | 2454063 Psyman
Psyman's picture

I don't contribute to sites that engage in censorship.  I want honest, open debate, not an echo chamber.


Let's hear it for Zero Hedge!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:46 | 2451650 ChickenTikka
ChickenTikka's picture

Simple answer to this problem:

Stop taxing American citiizens on their worldwide income.  Then people aren't incentivized any longer to give it up.

We're the only country (well, serious country) that does this. 

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:49 | 2451662 ffart
ffart's picture

B-but, don't you want your social security benefits? It's backed by the FULL FAITH of the U.S. GOVERNMENT.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:22 | 2451831 ChickenTikka
ChickenTikka's picture

Two things:

1.  Very low probability that I will survive long enough to benefit from it, considering my love of extreme sports and unprotected sex. 

2.  Any money set aside in social security would be put to better use buyer more of the above and therefore further decreasing said probability.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:28 | 2453597 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

You're my kind of guy - I was a skydiver in the early days of modifying your own chutes (1961-65); firefighter/paramedic for 20 years; paraglider pilot for 13 years (did some hospital time on that one) --

The bad news is, you might actually live through all that, (and the unprotected sex too), and find yourself an old, kind of gimped up guy that needs a little 'social security'. So save up a little along the way, even if you figure the gubbermint program won't be worth a shit when you need it - a resonable assumption - because you just might surprise yourself: "My parents taught me to be respectfull to my elders, but I can't find any any more."

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:47 | 2451653 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

Tax slaves?  Like owning a home?  Even when the banksters are paid off, you still pay real estate taxes; you never truly own it.  

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 22:44 | 2453786 MayerRothschild
MayerRothschild's picture

Hell you don't even own your car...There is a tax to own a car, tax on the gas for the car, tax(fee) to get a license to drive the car.


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:48 | 2451654 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Huh? How can you force a tax onto somebody who becomes a resident of another country?
Why would the other country allow it to that the US TAXES THEIR CITIZENS?
What about dividends? Thats nuts!
How can they even chack that?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:00 | 2451710 Matt
Matt's picture

If you have investments on American Exchanges, they just have a withholding tax for foreign citizens. It is by default 30 percent; for a Canadian, the withholding is reduced to 15 percent if you provide photo ID proving your citizenship. Then, if you qualify, there is some process to get the tax money back. If you are an ex-patriot, they just won't refund the withholding tax that is already in place. At least, that's my understanding of the situation.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:52 | 2451983 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Don't make this any more complicated than it is:  The government owns you, your labor, and the fruits thereof.   Taking all of it from you is crass because that's actually slavery.  So letting you keep a % makes you feel free.

How big does a plantation have to be before the slaves call it a country?  Free movement, just make sure you labor for Massa.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:19 | 2452593 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

And "home-owners" be sharecroppin', Nigga.


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:03 | 2451723 moondog
moondog's picture

I know how the US will enforce that if countries don't comply. The military industrial complex always needs new cannon fodder. There is always a silly excuse that the sheeple will buy...hook..line...and sinker.


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:50 | 2451947 Marco
Marco's picture

"Such individuals will also be required to pay a 30% capital gains tax to the United States government on ALL future investment gains derived from the US. Currently, non-citizens who do not reside in the US pay no US capital gains tax."

Personally I'm more outraged by that second bit than the first ... unless you are one of those "all taxation is stealing type" why would you support the escape of capital gains taxes on profit made inside the US simply by changing your nationality? Just because Google does it doesn't make it right.

I'm not a big believer in globalism and multinational companies any way, investment should be local ... if you want to move abroad fine, taking money with you is fine too, equity you can leave at the border.

A national economy should belong to the nationals ... otherwise you get manoeuvred into a situation like Ireland or New Zealand ... nationals of those countries can make claims of being debt slaves. Americans, whether renouncing or not, not so much.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:24 | 2452619 Umh
Umh's picture

Because the U.S. is an international bully.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:00 | 2453525 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

I been through this situation. You report you overseas income and tax paid to IRS. IRS tax you and deduct the tax you paid overseas.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 02:01 | 2454066 Psyman
Psyman's picture

If you're a big enough target they can easily reach out and touch you.  If you've got a few hundred grand you manage to sneak out of the fascist police state known as America, you're small potatoes.  A few million and I'd start to worry.  10 million+ and they'll hunt you down no matter where you run if only to make an example out of you.


They can also just assassinate you with an aerial death drone at will.  Americans here at home seem to have very little sympathy for their countrymen that go off the plantation.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:54 | 2451667 bobola
bobola's picture

Sell most of your stuff and make a sailboat your permanent domicile.

When life here becomes financially unbearable, load the boat up with food, water and fuel and quietly slip away.

Oh yea - don’t forget a bicycle and ample spare parts.

Like a sailboat, it doesn’t need expensive fuel to move.

 Edit; by living on a sailboat you don't pay property tax.  Don't like your marina neighbor; find a different slip.  Marina raises their costs; find a cheaper marina.  Don't like paying for a marina slip; anchor the boat and use a dinghy for transport.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:59 | 2451701 K_I_T_T_Y
K_I_T_T_Y's picture

why? many countries in this world are welcoming people in their country with interesting retirements visa, almost no taxes.

Ah, sorry forgot, if you have an american passport you still pay...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:36 | 2451897 kralizec
kralizec's picture


They'll come out and tax you where you anchor!

The Looters never give up!


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:57 | 2453518 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Does living on a sailboat qualify for SNAP?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:31 | 2453603 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Nice. A few weeks ago I posted a sort of non-comprehensive "list" of ways to escape the coming calamity in the U.S. if you should choose to, and on how to just live under the radar. I included only things I'd actually done myself over the years. One of them was to live on a sailboat, which I do now. You are spot on with your suggestions. I have to say though, unless you make a boatload of money, it's unlikely you'll escape paying more money in taxes by renouncing (or evading) than you'll pay for all the boat maintenance and repairs and haul outs and other expenses. But it's a great way to live and travel. A pretty decent liveaboard can be had for under $5k in the U.S. these days (so many people donating them to Boat Angels etc for tax write offs because they won't sell, and Boat Angels etc sell them for a song.) I know people who liveaboard on soc sec or disability checks.

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 02:05 | 2454067 Psyman
Psyman's picture

A sail boat is true freedom.  No TSA.  Just get in the boat and go.  Anywhere there's water.  And the Earth is 70% covered in the stuff.


If that 16 year old girl from the Netherlands can solo circumnavigate the Earth in a sail boat, I think the rest of us can man the fuck up and set sail for adventure.


Fear is what stops you.  Fear is what stops us all from living our dreams.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:50 | 2451668 wisefool
wisefool's picture

It’s truly extraordinary that the Land of the Free has deteriorated to the point that the government must now resort to threats, coercion, and intimidation in order to keep its most productive citizens inside.

An 80,000 page tax code is more of a threat than Pauson sending tanks in the streets. It is more of a threat than Mitt "14%" Romney pinning you down, cutting your hair, and making you pay "somewhere between 20-25%." It is even more of a threat than the clinical retard running the IRS right now, doing what ever it is that Timmah's do. It is more of a threat than Fukishima built by "corporations are people" with more tax avoidance employees than ELE avoidance employees.

Ron Paul 2012. Write him in.


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:31 | 2452647 azusgm
azusgm's picture

Couldn't register an uppey arrow for your post because of the italicized quote at the start. So please accept this "+1".

Don't wait to write in Ron Paul. Write-in votes don't get counted in Texas unless the candidate has filed a Declaration of Write-In Candidacy and either paid a fee or provided a petition with a qualifying number of signatures. This is in compliance with a federal court order.

There is no line that shows an option to file as a write-in Presidential candidate. How odd that the federal judge did not include that one. Better check your state.

Write-in as a fallback plan may not work at all. If your state GOP has not held its convention, you might do better to go the the location of the convention and pass out Ron Paul info, wear a Ron Paul t-shirt, and show your smiling face. Even better would be to call every one of the Republican elected officials and candidates in your state and request their support for Ron Paul. At least in Texas, those persons are delegates. If you can find the alternate delegates, contact them too.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:51 | 2451671 Sorynn
Sorynn's picture

Who is John Galt?


Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:57 | 2452753 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

An acquaintance of John Gotti.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 21:37 | 2453616 NewWorldOrange
NewWorldOrange's picture

Maybe the better question on this thread is, "Who is Ragnar Danneskjöld?"

"One of the original strikers, he is now world famous as a pirate. Danneskjöld seizes relief ships that are being sent from the United States to The People's States of Europe. As the novel progresses, Danneskjöld begins to become active in American waters. Danneskjöld's action is to restore to other creative people the money, in gold, which was unjustly taken away from them—specifically, their income tax payments."

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:51 | 2451673 synsolve
synsolve's picture

Action of this type would be considered a "Bill of Attainder" and is prohibited byThe Constitution of the United States, Article I, Section 9, paragraph 3 provides that: "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law will be passed."  Another blatant attempt to

dismantle the Constitution and enslave the citizenry for the benefit of the "fools upon the hill."

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:13 | 2451779 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Why reference a meaningless document?  It only exists for people to point to in political campaigns and to serve as toilet paper while Congress is in session.  Does anyone expect a politician to abide the Constitution, or the courts to defend it.  It's the ultimate dead letter law.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:37 | 2451903 Animal Cracker
Animal Cracker's picture

I hate how correct you are.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:38 | 2451907 kralizec
kralizec's picture

How is that deem & pass ObamaCare working...still being implemented as we speak, isn't it?

Tyranny is here, that more tyranny is coming...yeah, what a shock...

Too bad nobody gives a flying fornication!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:50 | 2451961 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Constitution?? Where we are heading we won't need a constitution.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:07 | 2452092 CH1
CH1's picture

Constitution? What's that?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:59 | 2452758 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

An old ship in Boston Harbor. I think it had something to do with Paul Revere and the Raiders.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:34 | 2452312 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The prohibition against ex post facto law applies only to ciminal arena.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:08 | 2453391 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

"Did he say blessed are the cheesemakers?"

"It wasn't meant to be taken LITERALLY.  He meant ANY manufacturer of dairy products."

Dude:  The Constitution applies (sic:applied) in ALL arenas.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:54 | 2453512 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

What Constitution?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:51 | 2451674 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The land of the flee and the home of the slave

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:53 | 2451679 SILVERGEDDON

Tax the tax collectors double. There. Fixed that pesky Fed problem. They can give the banks that there free money.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:55 | 2451685 otto skorzeny
otto skorzeny's picture

Slick Willie was furious-Hillary was about to renounce citizenship and move to Isle of Lesbos

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:55 | 2451686 Robslob
Robslob's picture



Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:04 | 2451729 Matt
Matt's picture

Corporations are people when it benefits them, and not people when it disadvantages them. Selectively applied rules FTW.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451687 Azwethinkweiz
Azwethinkweiz's picture

...and just a little word of caution to all of you who choose to join the #OWS protests:

"But after a tranquilizer dart, a round of "pepper balls" and multiple blasts from a Fire Department hose, the wild animal was still in danger of escaping the "the officers had to euthanize the animal."

Yeah, that's what they do to a baby mountain lion.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:15 | 2451795 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Those fools used pepper balls on a big cat?   You might as well sandpaper it's mud-ring and slap a brush of turpentine across it.  Talk about winding it up tight.

that fucking animal is going to fight like a chainsaw anyway, with all the noise, lights and commotion around it.  Idiots.

Now, I'm thinking if they did stuff like that at OWS we could probably make a hell of a profit scalping tickets for it.  I'd pay good money to watch hippies get firehosed.  Best vacay evah.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:52 | 2451987 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Did you pen that comment while watching the cockfights in Looseeaannaa?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:23 | 2452216 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

dumbass, you don't talk to cajuns about cockfighting.  Once again, from the top

dog fighting:  inner city men of distinction, especially sport celebrities of that flavour
sword fighting:  inner city "revitalization" zone lispers, who watch HGTV and sparklie vampire movies. I suspect you match to this demographic

cock fighting:  Hispanics, especially the island boys like Puerto Ricans, Cubanos and Dominicans.  Think Camahuays (sp?)  those chickens fight like a mother fucker.

got it now?



Wed, 05/23/2012 - 02:12 | 2454075 Psyman
Psyman's picture

I fucking HATE how American media always describes fat pigs firing 80+ bullets into an animal as "euthanasia."

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451688 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

why does anyone give a fuck what that Israeli citizen Chuck Schumer has to say ......FUCK YOU CHUCK

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:05 | 2451735 Matt
Matt's picture

Because he has the power to bring forward bills to potentially become laws?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:27 | 2451851 Precious
Precious's picture

Chuck Schumer is the ugliest man on the planet.  And that's without even considering his appearance.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:00 | 2452026 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

On those terms......there are millions of "ugly" people on this earth.

Greed, me me me......fuck everybody else.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:51 | 2453509 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Not because he has the power but these Jews are united and their target is one and only one and that is to rob this country.

They have done this (robbing thing) at least 212 times before and every time their ass is kicked. I can see 213th  in the making.



Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451690 giovanni_f
giovanni_f's picture

that bill will help, no doubt

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451691 K_I_T_T_Y
K_I_T_T_Y's picture

How come the US are the only country in the world taxing worldwide their citizens?

If I would be a US citizen leaving abroad I would insist in having US school in foreign countries, politician in the government representing their interests,.....if you pay taxes then for what?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:01 | 2451713 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

if you pay taxes then for what?


That really sums it up nicely.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:58 | 2452010 Matt
Matt's picture

Ex-Pat Tea Party due to taxation without representation?

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 15:10 | 2452109 CH1
CH1's picture

if you pay taxes then for what?

Because if you don't, large, armed men show up and lock you in a cage.

Rapists and murderers get shorter sentances.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 16:14 | 2452575 K_I_T_T_Y
K_I_T_T_Y's picture

of course, anyone that doesnt pay taxes is a terrorist and a public threat.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:56 | 2451693 I Am Not a Copp...
I Am Not a Copper Top's picture

1) As a resident of NY I call on my brethren to toss this fucktard Schumer out of office. It is a long time coming
2) Fuck this banana republic
3) Fuck you Bernanke (always needs to be said)

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:31 | 2451869 Precious
Precious's picture

Unfortunately, the belligerent, conceited, imbecile Shumer is a example of how the rest of the world perceives most New Yorkers.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:52 | 2451984 machineh
machineh's picture

'The belligerent, conceited, imbecile Schumer is an example of how ACCURATELY the rest of the world perceives most New Yorkers.'

Schumer's from Pyongyang on the Hudson, which still has 'emergency' WWII rent controls 70 years later.

Central planning, comrades! It's as New York as bagels and lox.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:57 | 2451696 agent default
agent default's picture

While at it, why not just make non US citizens pay tax to the US? I mean who saved them from the Red Menace and who won WWII?  It the next logical step.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:16 | 2451801 Shameful
Shameful's picture

We already are.  The Dollar as reserve currency is in effect a global tax on the planet.  It's a little cleaner then levying a tax on all the governments to kick up to the US.  It's also the reason that the daggers come out whenever a country is thinking about dropping the dollar, fucking with Uncle Sugar's money is like fucking with his emotions.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:32 | 2451872 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

non-US citizens, if they spend more than 183 days in a three-year period, DO owe US taxes.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 20:45 | 2453494 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Yes, you right. Afghans, Iraqi and Libyan are already lined up.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 13:59 | 2451702 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



I'm ever grateful for having PMs and 3 fiat currencies stored outside the walls of The Truman Show...

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:00 | 2451705 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

If you are wealthy, most nations will take you and then you can renounce your citizenship. For most of us "work-a-day" folks, most decent nations won't let you in.

If the rich use this escape hatch to go somewhere where they can keep more of their money, good for them. But don't be fooled into thinking this is for the average guy. Unless you want to move to some third world hell hole.

I only say one thing to the tax refugees, "do not ask for the US military to come save your ass or to keep the world safe for the well-to do."

Nope, you opted out for money, you should be on your own!

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:11 | 2451761 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

This works well for those rich folk, for a little while.  Short half life though.  After a few dashes of agitprop, a sprinkle of marxist rhetoric and a truckload or two of pangas it deteriorates very quickly.

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:11 | 2451765 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

the US military is not the business of saving ass to begin with

Tue, 05/22/2012 - 14:51 | 2451974 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Unless you happen to be drowning in an oil well & clogging up the outflow...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!