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Guest Post: US Government Asset Seizures On The Rise

Tyler Durden's picture


From Simon Black of Sovereign Man

US Government Asset Seizures On The Rise

The Wall Street Journal published a disturbing article earlier this week entitled “Federal Asset Seizures Rise, Netting Innocent With Guilty.

You can already imagine the crux of the article.

In the United States, there are hundreds of regulations which authorize dozens federal agencies to confiscate private property– homes, cars, bank accounts, gold, company shares, and even personal effects.

Ironically, most Americans still think that they live in a country where you’re innocent until proven guilty. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it’s just another clear example of how the US Constitution has become a worthless piece of toilet paper for the federal government.

The Fifth Amendment states that “No person shall be… deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.” Tell that James Lieto, a New York businessman who was relieved of $392,000 when the armored car company used by his check-cashing firm was taken down by the FBI.

Lieto was innocent and not implicated in any wrongdoing, but the FBI took his money regardless as it just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Last October, another businessman named Raul Stio was suspected of wrongdoing by the Treasury Department. The government seized over $150,000 from his account, yet in the 10-months that followed, Stio has still not been charged with a crime.

According to Justice Department statistics, the total value of confiscated property exceeded $2.5 billion in 2010, more than double from five years ago. The average take per case? $166,000… and the vast majority of cases were non-criminal.

It’s truly staggering to think about how much can be taken away from you in the blink of an eye, all without any judicial oversight or right to a hearing.

The reason could be anything. Maybe you violated some arcane, meaningless regulation among the hundreds of thousands of pages of US Code (ignorance of the law is NOT an excuse!). Maybe you were at the wrong place at the wrong time. Or maybe they had no real reason at all other than mere suspicion.

One minute you have money, the next you’re completely locked out of your wealth and livelihood. They force YOU to prove to them that you aren’t guilty, but they take away any means you had to defend yourself.

Look, this is the new reality in America. The entire country has become a nation of criminals– there isn’t a single man, woman, or child alive who is not in violation of some obscure regulation or cannot be ‘suspected’ of wrongdoing.

This is really just a form of cannibalism– a government feeding on its own citizens in order to keep the party going just a little bit longer. They’ll raise taxes, seize assets, take over pension funds, erode freedoms, start wars and send people to die– whatever it takes to maintain the status quo.

I’ve long advocated for an internationalization strategy: diversifying various assets and interests overseas so that no one single government has total control over your livelihood.

Store your gold in Switzerland. Open a bank account in Hong Kong. Register your company in the BVI. Establish a ‘backup’ residency in Chile. Expand your business in Brazil. Get a better job in Singapore. Obtain a second passport in Malta. Open a brokerage account in the Cayman Islands.


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Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:54 | 1595628 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Robbery, bitchez

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:00 | 1595662 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Feudalism at its best, everyone is property of the homeland and everyone must pay up to the liege lord.  

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:11 | 1595734 john39
john39's picture

global fascist rule.  profits for corporations/banks... losses borne by the public.   all under the control of the banker elites.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 01:22 | 1598262 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Before Russo died, he made a film called America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version located here ( on Google.

Russo did a few other interviews.  In one of them he said that there is no law that says you have to pay taxes.  He also says that the IRS are a government armed gang who will throw you in jail, and take away whatever they feel like taking.  So you now have a choice, fight them and go broke, or let them slowly rob you and maybe you won't go broke.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:23 | 1595789 FalseConsciousness
FalseConsciousness's picture

Apt analogy.  Capitalism has always been of feudal design - with chance to become a lord.  Once those chances end, so does capitalism.   

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1595937 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Feudalism is corrupted by the thing that corrupts, and eventually destroys any system: Cronyism. Not to mention that feudalism is a form of government, not necessariliy an economic model.

Capitalism is what broke feudalism. That is why the feudal lords of the welfare state don't like it much.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:31 | 1596070 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Yes, capitalism spoiled the party for all the monarchs and aristocrats, and they have been busy for past 100 years at destroying it, seems they are nearly there

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:07 | 1596209 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

Shoot first, hide the bodies later.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 18:44 | 1597018 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

If you don't shoot 'em first, you have to listen to all that whining and sniveling while you bury them.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 20:49 | 1597588 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

gotta be solid hitz

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 18:12 | 1596922 Hyper Entropy
Hyper Entropy's picture

Wow, we all know now you read at least half of chapter one of Das Kapital.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:55 | 1595904 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

well, its a lot more democracy oriented than traditional feudalism.   More like the former soviet union, where those in positions of authority are pretty much like the mob.  They demand their retribution, and send you on your way.   Or in Greece, where everyone is looking for an angle to skim a little extra off this or that.  You know everyone's out to screw you, so you gotta screw them too, or you'll end up in a "been screwed more than done the screwing" deficit.  End of game.

The U.S. is no better.  We just disguise it better and lie to ourselves a lot more so we can look at ourselves in the mirror much easier and convince ourselves we're not really stealing from our neighbor because "the regulations made me do it"... And everyone voted for those, so what's a crime if I do it myself or with a few of my buddies is suddenly laundered and legal thanks to democracy.

Yea... In the U.S. nearly everyone has they're hand in the till.  Tax lawyers, CPAs, financial planners who all make a living off of the completely inane and arbitrary complexity of the tax code and financial rules and regulations.  Hell, the whole concept of a CFP is a joke.  NPV of a future obligation ain't that hard to calculate... but it sure is when the law creates an arbitrary minefield of stupidity that you get to charge all of your clients to navigate day in and day out.

So many careers in the U.S. would simply go hungry if not for the government forcing them into existence either directly or indirectly.  Government workers, contractors for govt, bankers who get to play with printed money / fractional reserve leverage to earn a living... INsurance agents who do estate planning... College planners... etc. etc. etc.

And people wonder why this country is collapsing under its own weight.  What a waste of resources.  Non productive, totally parasitic.  Yes, you with the college degree or MBA or JD who looks down on the welfare recipient: So many of you are really just welfare with a degree.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:56 | 1595919 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

You think that innovatio only applies to technology ? LOL the so called 'political/social sciences' are not sleeping they have been transmutating Marxism/Leninism/Stalinism all the way

they learned their lessons, don't expect them to come out and say 'look people we're gonna have lenninist communism now', no they are gonna make you have it without you even being able to perceive it properly, it will be kinda like Neo in Matrix

Morpheus: 'you know there is something wrong with the world'

                'something is amis'

                'but you can't quite pinpoint what is it?'

Neo:         'Yes'


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:02 | 1595943 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I think you're describing Fabian Socialism. They frowned on the clumsy soviet communist revolution.   They believe in the Noble Lie.

Keynes was a Fabian socialist...   The first 1/3 of the Creature from Jekyll Island does a quick job of describing the much more sophisticated bunch of Fabians who co-opted the central banking model as a form of subtle redistributionism.  The rest of the book l'm not such a big fan of, and Griffin himself has admitted mistakes on some of his wilder assertions made in the second half of the book.  But the stuff on the Fabians, the origins of the Fed and its relationship to Euro Banking interests is reliable enough. 

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:11 | 1595979 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

I think redistribution of wealth to themselves from everybody else was what they where after 100 years ago I think they are now deep into social and possibly genetical(through chemistry/environment) engineering and are trying to assume control not just over your money (they got that a long time ago) but are going directly after your 'soul' they want to control you and your children inside out, they want to make the

human race into mindless drones that will churn out 'products and services' for them, think China or North Korean on a Global scale

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:18 | 1596016 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

krugman has all the answers to this problem! guns, bombs and global conflagration, bitchez


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:21 | 1596026 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

True enough.  The Fabians figured they could seize control of the apparatus, or at least make a deal to enable a handful of the elites to keep their wealth, while they would, in turn, grease the wheels of Fabian Socialism.

The education system of the U.S. specifically was designed by those looking for order-taking drones who would learn to cope with indifference, learn to obey bells and signals, and be groomed to accept / bide their time despite being miserable at what they do.  I mean, cha-chaing!  Total success.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:43 | 1596119 arizona11912
arizona11912's picture

Leopold B Scotch, I agree with everything you say. Its the absolute truth! I sit here with my recent MA in Econometrics (using statistics to falsfiy reality) now trying to devise a plan to "create" a job NOT "get" a job. I'm really good at macroeconomic and financial (monetary policy) forcasting so I'm going to do consulting and help people and small business steer clear of the bs. Anyone here talented at making websites like Thanks

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:04 | 1596187 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I feel for you, Zona.  On a scale of massive proportions the PhDers (and others) have managed to confuse creating stuff (=real wealth) with creating activity. 

GDP measures activity.  Pay everyone $billions to piss in the wind and GDP will give you an A+++ for effort.

We just learned we all can't sell mortgages to each other.  We are now learning the hard way that finance for the sake of finance is a real hootnanny.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:52 | 1595910 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I've been leaning toward Argentina, but the consensus on here seems to be Chile... What are the advantages of Chile over Arg.?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:58 | 1595925 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

In Argentina they engineer their own collapses

In Chile an 8pt. earthquake leaves no scars after a month

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:03 | 1595956 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

ya the earthquakes scare me.  Another currency crisis in Argentina doesn't scare me as much, would just keep everything in Ag/Au.


Looking at a small vineyard for under 6 figures.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:25 | 1596005 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

You people think that Au/Ag is a means to all ends, and who exactly will you trade with when all things go to hell ?

At least in Chile you have a better chance of civilization surviving, when in Argentina people will be eating each other alive

That is why I am staying (for now) in Germany cuz of all the countries in Europe Germany is the most likely to survive a global economic/social collapse

I could get 4x more for my money in Eastern Europe but I would be afraid of 'getting eaten alive there' when society breaks down


Let's say something like the recent riots in London, happens in your neighborhood, are you gonna trade with those marauding youths your silver ?

I think not, so the 1st thing is to pick a place where riots like that are unlikely, 2nd thing is to be prepared when they happen anyway

Au/Ag will not help you survive when SHTF trully, you better have weapons, food, shelter and skills to back yourself up

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:03 | 1596194 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Don't worry about my firearms "skills" I was plinking squirrels with a .22 since I was able to walk.  I shoot competitively in GSSF, IPSC and IDPA.  That happens to be 1 of the reasons I prefer Argentina, more liberal gun laws.  Marauding youths aren't a concern of mine.  The problem in London was the shopkeepers had no way to defend themselves.  You think those clowns would hang around smashing windows if they saw one of their buddies take a load of buckshot to the gut?


I would feel comfortable on a vineyard at the base of the Andes, sitting on my porch with a glass of cabernet and a .308.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 16:09 | 1596429 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

Bad news my friend. Once the Germans realize they just lost WW II for the second time the shit will hit the fan there too.


But at least it well be well designed and well engineered shit

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 21:37 | 1597762 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

What makes you think everything has to go to hell for gold and silver to have value? Zimbabwe, Argentina, and Weimar Germany are all examples of where precious metals stored wealth while fiat went to hell. Out of chaos comes order. If the STHF, things will be bad for weeks, months or years. After that, you'll wish that you have gold and silver instead of fiat currency and government promises.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1595932 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Bad propaganda never dies in this US world order.

"No person shall... be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law..." leading to conclude that the US constitution is nothing but a piece of paper.

What an intellect to conclude that after 200 years running. Or a selective definition of what a person is, in a US citizen manner.

Potentially the last one of course.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:29 | 1596290 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Well, David Rockefeller vacations every year in Chile, possibly because that's where he set up Josef Mengele and his clinic.

Wonder what that clinic was/is for?  But Davy Rockefeller looks mighty young, even in a wheelchair?

"The entire country has become a nation of criminals– there isn’t a single man, woman, or child alive who is not in violation of some obscure regulation or cannot be ‘suspected’ of wrongdoing."

Can't but agree with the blog quote above --- the end result of predatory jurisprudence (see Thomas Linzey's work, one of America's greatest public service attorneys).

Truly, America has become nothing more than a fraud-based society, with the workers at their mercy.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:10 | 1595983 ian807
ian807's picture

Twas ever thus. Local police forces are the Mafia when it grows up.

Pay the local mafioso of have your shop burned down. Pay the local cops or have your shop confiscated while you are put in jail. With confiscation laws, you don't even have to bother with that pesky court system.

Either way, you get no choice, particularly if you have a family. The local mafioso probably leads a less ostentatious life than the local police chief or his minions. Certainly the police whack more people.

The lord of the manor, the local police chief, the POTUS. Is there a difference any more?

And who are the greater criminals?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:10 | 1595729 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Silver is getting flushed hard right now. 

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:24 | 1595778 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

All the better to buy even more my little pretty.

Store your gold in Switzerland. Open a bank account in Hong Kong.

My man in Hong Kong, Banzai7, has agreed to hold all my Gold and Silver for when I need it. Right Banzai7? Right?

Ummm......Bill? Are you there Bill?

Anyone seen Bill lately? :)

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:35 | 1595842 fishface
fishface's picture

just saw him over at Lamma on a brand new yacht

good looking chicks an board, was wondering if he won at the races

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:06 | 1595968 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Don't ask me.... I'm just the guy who takes care of your wife.

PS: She says hello and might stay for another few weeks. Maybe she'll send you a textmessage this weekend, but don't count on it.



Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:14 | 1596236 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Keep her. And good luck with that.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:22 | 1595783 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I will be a buyer, today or tomorrow. Been waiting for this.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:47 | 1595891 Boston
Boston's picture

I'm waiting til Friday's speech.

If expectations for more QE are not met, then the dollar rallies, and gold/silver could pull back much more.

If so, I'll be backing up the truck on Friday afternoon.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1595934 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I bought today...apparently i'm missing the bottom by a little bit, but oh well. I don't have the stomach for timing these things.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:15 | 1596000 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

don't matter, its a long ride.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:00 | 1595938 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Isn't it funny this happens right after the 'rebels' won in Libia (they got some physical to short with!)

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:14 | 1596238 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

this is a scary stretch to be short.  the media and events seem manufactured towards a common goal: promote market stability, get cash out of safe havens and into risk, and hurt the shorts


even if that means the west funding rebels in lybia

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 17:17 | 1596730 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

This rebel wants to win in "labia".

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:26 | 1596048 pops
pops's picture

Good deal!  I can buy more.

When silver is riding high, ZSL is in the I buy ZSL.  When silver takes a whipping, ZSL zooms, I sell and buy more physical silver with the gains.

Shhhhh!  Don't tell everyone my secret.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:51 | 1595905 Au Shucks
Au Shucks's picture

There is but two ways to fight back.  One involves violence and gives the fascist nazi's an excuse to unleash violence in return.  The other involves starving the system and can enlist the services of Joe Sixpack just as easily as Patriot Paul.  Some argue that defaulting on bank debt and removing cash from banks while converting fiat into real assets is immoral or unethical and causes others to pay that bill.  What these people fail to realize or acknowledge is that the "system" itself is in self-destruct mode with absolutely no chance of recovery or longevity.  Bottom line, anybody can fight back with a little courage coupled with conviction that they are doing something for the good of our nation and humanity.

Default TODAY on any and all unsecured, uncollaterized bank debt.  Credit cards, default.  Consumer loans, default. 

Pull everything short of 1 month's cash out of the banks.  Save what you feel you need to, convert the rest into something real... food, protection, precious metals, means of production.

This is a great start... for those who have bigger balls..

Stop paying your mortgage.  Get an attorney if you want and live without mortgage payments, property insurance payments or property tax payments for 24 mos or longer.  Fight the bank to prove they are the owner of the note.  Many will win this, some will not, but the objective is not self enrichment, it is self preservation.

Organize locally with like-minded patriots.. start a community garden and trade network.. etc. etc.

We have no other options left, frankly.  Starve the beast, or be fed to it.. it is literally that simple.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:10 | 1595985 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I don't have a problem with a lot of what you say.  

But I don't agree with not paying your debts.  Maybe if you're horribly under water because you got suckered in before you realized what you were doing...  but before you stop paying your mortgage, you should step up and protest like a real man and start voting for libertarians, since they seem to be the only ones you can rely on to actually do what they say / will actually cut the head off the real problem.

Most mortgage dodgers voted for Obama because Bush screwed them with the bubble.  Simple minds beget simple results.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 03:14 | 1598388 oldman
oldman's picture

I disagree.

Voting has gotten not a thing accomplished in-----well, maybe never---I don't know but I do know that it has never worked during my lifetime. L.B. Scotch, I know not who you are but I am tired of explaining to people why voting doesn't work; no onre who would be a pol gives a FUK about the voters. This is a corrupt and mean system held together by well-meaning people like yourself-----telling me that I have a voice and can bring about change----------

I can't even finish this----not yours, but I want to vomit.     om

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:14 | 1595990 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

+1,  Its even easier then that.  Just cut your consumption in half..  In every thing you do..

First it will reset China, then it will reset the US..

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:18 | 1596011 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Been arguing something similar for a year and a half. Split up into four groups. Everyone take a week and tries not to buy anything if possible. Add to it the bartering, local food production etc. Starve the beast!.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:17 | 1596233 dogismyth
dogismyth's picture

I would have to agree with you Shucks.  All that is remaining is the upper middle class and beyond to throw in the towel in disgust over this system.  Many still feel they are safe and unaffected by the policies of the elitists run governments.  But, they are next on the list.

Some people think there is something to salvage...that perhaps a politician or two will be instrumental in saving the system...that perhaps by happenstance things will get better.  The criminality of the system is blatant and obnoxious.  The puppets are arrogant and strongly sense they are untouchable.  And the elite are already preparing for a reset but doing their best to pimp the politicians for all they're worth.

Close accounts.  All of them except for a local bank or CU so that you may unwillingly participate in the monopolistic monetary system as needed.

Refrain from shopping at the big name companies.  Shop local or regional as long as the owners are based regionally.

Stop participating in the political system.  Voting is useless.  It doesn't matter who you elect, change will never occur under the current system of bribes, threats and cronyism.

Civil disobediance is a must, and it should be directed at mega-corporations, especially the primary dealers.

As far as debt, avoid it if you can.  If you are in debt, there are choices.  But if your goal is to stop feeding the monster, then be prepared with knowledge on how to manuever your way through the legal system.  Its a barbaric system based on commercial trafficking and that includes you and your loved ones.  You are a number just like livestock EXCEPT you can think and reason how best to survive and defeat the monsters that rule us.

When I read this board and others, people continue to act as if it is a joking matter.  Many think they are secure in their PM.  Many could care less  for those around them.  Many feel immune because of some (mis) belief they have adopted.  Indoctrination takes on many forms.  And many have been indoctrinated to the myth that gold and silver will be their life saving asset.  What may have been acquired through much work and effort can vaporize in mere seconds.  Nothing is for sure and timing with regards to predictions is a fools game.

Its true what they say.  you are what you eat.  You are what you think.  And you are only as good as your heart.



Wed, 08/24/2011 - 17:02 | 1596662 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Everyone has a different approach to surviving.   That's a good thing.  It assures a wide range of efforts that will end in success.   The folks who prepare in any way will be able to mix and mingle with those who survive in other ways to create a diverse population of those who will rebuild.   Nothing wrong with taking different tacks as long as it's not the current one.

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 02:19 | 1598331 oldman
oldman's picture

AW Shucks,

Great advice----an example of doing-nothing to give our lords reason to worry. They just think that you are another victim---more collateral damage in current terms.


Yeah, I like it a lot, thanks                 om

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:54 | 1595630 Toe Cutter
Toe Cutter's picture

Control Bitchez!!

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:55 | 1595635 tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

You are now guilty until proven innocent...End the tyranny, vote Ron Paul 2012

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:59 | 1595658 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I wish it would work, but it wont....this is far greater than 1 man in the now-puppet position of POTUS, which is now nothing but a figurehead who is told what to say. If Ron Paul is an actual threat to the banksters system, and gets anywhere near bocoming an actual nuisance, assasination time. Sorry to say it, but thats a fact.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:06 | 1595702 pods
pods's picture

Yep, RP will not take down the UCC and our corporate way of life.  There are many who are fighting though.

My newest must- read is on the way:
" They own it all, (including you):By means of a toxic currency."

Seems there is much more truth to the 14th amendment trust than I was able to accept.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:13 | 1595739 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

another link to purchase said book :

hate to sound like a broken record, but Amazon is not your friend.   if we want to pull ourselves away from the Grip, we have to stop taking the easy way out, step by baby step.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:20 | 1595773 pods
pods's picture

Thanks Tip E.  Will order from there.  

Amazon is less of an enemy than Google though.

(as typed into a Chrome browser)


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:45 | 1595964 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

true dat.   (note to selves : turn your gmail off while searching unless you want them to track the meme)

btw, have you noticed that lately searches are less relevant to a complex set of search words and more generally relevant to the sites they want you to see (which seem to pop up every frikkin time)?

if Anon. really wanted to make a difference, they would collectively design a open-source search engine to rival the Goog.   i'd use it in a milliflop.

edit: courtesy of a guardian angel,

note their privacy policy.

guess it's not a privilege after all, but rather a choice.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:29 | 1595815 Thisson
Thisson's picture

There is nothing wrong with the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code).  It's just a way to simplify contract law when it comes to commercial actors.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:49 | 1595898 pods
pods's picture

Of course not.  But that does not mean I want to live my life under it. I would rather NOT give up my God given rights for the privileges afforded by being a part of the money trust that I was unknowlingly entered into when my birth certificate was signed.  Or again when my license was signed, etc.  

I prefer my rights than their privileges.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:10 | 1595723 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

I think SD1, who got junked for it, has a good point.  The system was slowly changed so that no one person can change it.  Add in the fact that we are so far past the point of fixing this bankrupt nation, that I can't believe he was junked.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:14 | 1595747 john39
john39's picture

dashing angry people's one great hope will not make one popular.   telling the truth will not make one popular.  He is right.  Ron Paul is a hoax at worst.  at best a temporary distration to keep angry people engaged in the system.  just another level of control.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:13 | 1595728 Odin McHaggis
Odin McHaggis's picture

I am concerned ZH will/is becoming the same sort of nuisance and will suffer the consequence. Keep it up Zh. Stay hard bro.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:28 | 1595804 smore
smore's picture

The man is willing to take the chance of assassination, obviously.  Sorry, but "it won't work" is sheer pathetic defeatism.  You won't know whether it will work until you get off your knees and RESIST, will you?  Gotta hold myself back from sheep-related jibes now!

Thu, 08/25/2011 - 00:48 | 1598196 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

I'd get on my knees fer yer avatar!  Need a good tongue-lashing?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:34 | 1595817 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Though you have a valid point, Sheep Dog, it doesn't change the fact that you're partly wrong.  First of all, I acknowledge that RP will not be able to change the system, and in all likelihood blame would be placed on him when the system goes down.  Indeed, he would not be able to change the crony corporatism and the corupt Congress and Reps.  This is how you are right.

But you are very wrong in your dissing of a RP vote.  A vote for RP is more a vote for what's right, or a vote against the status quo and corrupt system. It is not an act of blind belief that all will be better if he's POTUS.  He would, however, have more power over policy and be able to veto some the crap that came his way.  In the end, I think he would be ignorantly blamed for collapse by the FU MSM and partisan sheep.

Vote for what's right, even if that means no vote at all.  Fuck the nay sayers and noise makers.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:24 | 1596040 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:36 | 1595827 smore
smore's picture

The man is willing to take the chance of assassination, obviously.  Sorry, but "it won't work" is sheer pathetic defeatism.  You won't know whether it will work until you get off your knees and RESIST, will you? 

My new girlfriend doesn't think you have any cojones :)

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:16 | 1596006 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Jackson took a bullet so to save the 1800s U.S. from a central bank and the bankster frauds.   Some argue JFK did, too....

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 23:42 | 1598085 Rick64
Rick64's picture

He took more than a bullet. That guy was a tough sonofabitch. The banksters must have been pulling their hair out.  Did you ever read his speech against a private central bank? This guy knew the game inside and out, and laid it all out for all to see.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:36 | 1595843 UGrev
UGrev's picture

war teeth are grinding.. I can hear them.. it's the only way.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:18 | 1596013 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture



Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:28 | 1596053 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Venezuela.. We need something closer to home to shock the sheeple into acceptance/obedience.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:02 | 1595935 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

If Ron Paul is an actual threat to the banksters system, and gets anywhere near bocoming an actual nuisance, assasination time. Sorry to say it, but thats a fact.

Curious as to when will it be Bankster assination time?  How much more BS will the peeps tolerate?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:04 | 1595957 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Electing Ron Paul would be a symbolic gesture representative of spreading a cultural change and of educating an ignorant populace. Pretty much like what's going on at Zero Hedge.

Which is to say - yes, perhaps the effort will be futile, but does that make it unworthy of even trying?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:35 | 1596307 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Couldn't agree more, Sheepdog-One.  One grows infinitely tired of explaining that the voting records of Obama, Clinton and Edwards differed little from true Republican voting records (as in McCain, etc.) -- so there has never been any real choice since they whacked the last authentic democrat in the Oval Office, President John F. Kennedy!

And it was Kennedy who stood up to US Steel and GE, while it is Obama who has appointed the CEO of ZERO-tax paying, massive jobs-offshoring, GE to be the "jobs czar."

What's wrong with this picture????

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:57 | 1595643 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

 Treasury seizes everyones 401K's and pensions and trading accounts soon! Wow, we sure didnt see that one comin!

'Store your gold in Switzerland, open a Hong Kong bank account'...nah screw that Ive got PM's in a time capsule and the rest in firearms ammo and food, etc.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:01 | 1595668 V in PA
V in PA's picture

Lead. The other PM.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:03 | 1595685 BandGap
BandGap's picture

Serious question SheepDog, do you ever discuss this approach with family or friends?  I'll probably get a whole tinfoil hat wardrobe this year, but I get the RCA dog look with people I try to tell to get prepared.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:05 | 1595695 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Sure I do, and my youtube channel is davids11131113, I talk about it all the time.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:08 | 1595713 12ToothAssassin
12ToothAssassin's picture

I discussed this with a long time friend at a familt BBQ last weekend. He looked at me like I was crazy and said "Gold is just bubble and nothing will ever get that bad. People wont let it."



Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:37 | 1596312 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

It's funny, but the plan now is for America to be balkanized by 2017-2020.

It seemed like the logical outcome, but they are in actuality planning for it to be.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 18:08 | 1596912 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Nothing will get that bad?  It already has.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 22:58 | 1598000 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

that's great. "People won't let it"  I was trying to get a 45 year old business man who had made some money to buy Silver in 2001, when it was $4.35/0z; he listened for awhile, and then he said, that can't be true, if it was it would be on TV.  I like your avatar, external tooth star washers are one of my favorite things.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:31 | 1595820 LookingForTruth
LookingForTruth's picture

Best approach is to not discuss, just get prepared.  The freinds and family either get it, or they don't.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:12 | 1595735 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Amen to that brother. 

In God we trust, but when he ain't around, 4" schedule 40 PVC pipe will do nicely.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:57 | 1595646 jumpnjon
jumpnjon's picture

DOJ renamed to DOI (Department of Injustice)  Sounds like Obama is grabbing revenue anywhere he can.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:39 | 1596320 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

And ya know, there are still plenty of people around who are ignorant to the fact that FBI Director Robert Mueller's great-uncle was Richard Bissell, one of the three CIA directors who Kennedy fired.

Now who do you suppose Timothy Geithner is related to?  (HINT:  on the Moore-Mellon side of his family.)

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:57 | 1595647 Mister Meaner
Mister Meaner's picture

You personally might have some remaining "rights". But property does not, according to SCOTUS. Open invitation for confiscation.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:35 | 1595837 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Something I learned from history: land belongs to those that can defend it.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:58 | 1595649 Gold Man-Sacks
Gold Man-Sacks's picture

Ron Paul will save us!

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:00 | 1595663 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

People actually think the rigged election system designed by the overlords will deliver them salvation from this tyranny? Dream on, it will never happen.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:36 | 1595844 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I prefer my dreams to reality. Last night I was a knight.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:04 | 1595692 Potemkin Nation
Potemkin Nation's picture

I'm a big fan of RP, but if by some miracle he gets elected, he'll be the fall guy.  If you believe TANSTAAFL, then the piper must be paid for our massive excesses.  That means things are going to get worse before they get better.   A very apt analogy is a drug addict.  The right course of action is to go through detox, but detox is hell.  The country has no appetite for hell.  So, if you were the guy that pushed detox, you are going to get the blame.  The top story on the nightly news will be the "RP Mistake", and they'll lay the groundwork for pulling a 180 into fascism.  Bottom line:  it's too late to save the system. 

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:34 | 1595835 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Ya know, if folks saw and believed that EVERYONE was taking haircuts and doing austerity, maybe, just maybe, we could consciously make the choice to endure some collective pain, for our country, for our future. Pulling together is a really positive emotional state to live in.I have done it with my husband to get out of debt. It was fun, we are happy with ourselves.

Because we KNOW some of these bastards are getting bonuses for losing money, and worse, most will think "How'm I gonna get mines?"

I can be austere all I want; with them stealing the difference, NOTHING I DO MATTERS.

So I will game it the best I can with the whits I've got, and help those around me. Fuck them.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:55 | 1595916 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Well said, Ms.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:35 | 1596083 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes fucking "them" is the best way to loving "us"

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:58 | 1595927 Nascent_Variable
Nascent_Variable's picture

Of course, they'd attack him, but even four years of Ron Paul at the helm would do wonders.  Forget Congress, he could start rescinding unconstitutional Executive Orders one after another.  He could also staff the Justice Department and regulators with people who may actually be able to catch some of the criminals.

At worst, Ron Paul would be a Truman- attacked and villified during his presidency, with history judging him quite differently.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 17:36 | 1596808 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Just maybe he is a patriot and will take the short term hit. History has a way of correcting things in hindsight.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:58 | 1595652 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

U.S. = Fascism central #1. The citizenry will get what they deserve for their acquiescence... i'll save my tears for the innocent of the world.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:15 | 1595755 malikai
malikai's picture


Nobody wants to know. So they will get what they deserve.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:04 | 1595958 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

How nice. Made me laugh.

But actually, US citizens are used to pushing people unrelated to their situation  under the train in an attempt to avoid facing the consequences of their actions.

The innocent is going to fall first in this story, used to protect US citizens. 

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:19 | 1596018 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Here is a preview of what the citizens will be getting. Consider the False Flag implications of the following.........

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:38 | 1596099 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

we are definitely doing tricks to export our inflation. It won't last. Our greatest tragedy is thinking we're smarter than everyone else, that we can keep the ponzi scheme going.  

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:58 | 1595653 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Only Terrorists don't want their assets seized.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:59 | 1595660 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

and people that float or don't die after a headshot.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:35 | 1595841 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

Young children float when you throw them into water - because their bones aren't fully developed.

Make sure you weigh them down with rocks.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 12:59 | 1595661 Little John
Little John's picture

  Enjoy it while you can G men.  The rodeo is near.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:04 | 1595664 Popo
Popo's picture

Right, because in all those places like Chile, Brazil, etc. 'property rights' are much more protected???

Simon, do you pull your recommendations out of your ass, or are you really a 23 year old with a Wordpress account?   I could write pages about the severe *lack* of property rights in Chile.  Or nightmares of doing business in Brazil.   Or the absolute transparency to the US government of bank accounts in the Caymans.  

The WSJ article is indeed a concern.  But to suggest running for the hills (especially when said 'hills' are profoundly more risky by many measures) is alarmism combined with ignorance.   Then again -- it probably gets you lots of pageviews.   And for a 23 year old AdSense douche, that's probably really cool.



Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:09 | 1595719 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Popo... maybe it would be good idea to counter with "I could write pages about the severe *lack* of property rights in Chile.  Or nightmares of doing business in Brazil.   Or the absolute transparency to the US government of bank accounts in the Caymans."

Go ahead I am sure we all would love to learn about what you know!

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:01 | 1595907 Popo
Popo's picture

Ooohh.. Good one Yin Yang.  You've egged me on, and now I'm going to spend the next 17 hours typing into this box on a web page.   I see we have another very young poster here.

I apologize for shitting all over your blog-idol --  Who by the way lives about 2 hours from me here in Thailand  --  but he's an ignorant douche:   Your standard noob expat who thinks he discovered Earth.

But apparently you're stepping up to defend him over what everyone in the world knows, except apparently you and Mr. Sovereign Man:  That property rights in most emerging market countries are negligible.   If you want a debate, the onus is on you to argue the extreme claim:  That property rights in the US are less protected.  In fact -- I challenge you to name a European nation with laws even close to America's regarding protection of personal property.  (Including Switzerland).

And as for transparency in the Caymans.  Try reading the Journal or the FT.  

Btw -- the above "article" is an advertisement for his newsletter. 


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:13 | 1595741 malikai
malikai's picture

I think you may have missed the point. Simon is encouraging people diversify sovereign risk. The more diverse your assets, the 'safer' they are against any one country taking you for everything you've got. You'll understand his point much better when you see your 401k replaced by some 'government guarantee scheme'. Or if they pull another gold confiscation, you'll see it then too. The point is, don't keep all your eggs in one (national) basket. This is the essence of why 'safe havens' exist.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:23 | 1595788 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

His point is to sell subscriptions to his services and seminars.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:49 | 1596343 malikai
malikai's picture

I can't argue with you that he intends to sell subscriptions. But then again, show me someone who posts these kind of newsletters that doesn't? The fact that he wants subscriptions does not make his point false. It doesn't make Faber, Schiff, Reggie, or even Phoenix wrong. While I also dislike shameless self promotion, it happens, and we have to live with it, or we should ignore those who do it. But it doesn't make the self promoter wrong.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:00 | 1595666 pods
pods's picture

Seems I might have to double down on my efforts of freeing myself from this UCC nightmare.

You have no rights under the UCC, only granted privileges.  

Looking better each day to become sovereign again.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:09 | 1595722 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

you been digging in the chests at Cornell pods?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:16 | 1595758 pods
pods's picture

Nothing else to do on slow nights!

Man this is crazy deep.  Was watching some youtube vids of Raymond St. Clair last night.  He took over a magistrates court (Britain) by refusing to contract to use commercial law.  It was magnificent.

Lots of people are realizing we are in fact living in a corporate system as subejcts with granted privileges, not rights.

Found a couple more books to read too (see link above).  And my copy of Black's Law Dictionary, 5th edition is on its way.

Seems the rabbit hole goes deep.

I think it was Kayman who has done this, but he had taken control of his commercial affairs.

Crazy world.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:03 | 1595682 fonestar
fonestar's picture

So I have a question for you Americans... how do you like your Afghanistan and Iraq adventures so far?  Guess you forgot someone actually has to foot the bill for your stupidity eh?  Now carry on with your imploding paper empire...

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:15 | 1595753 Aguadulce
Aguadulce's picture

Where do you hail from?  I'm going to guess Canada, because I sense a little bit of overconfidence that is easily distinguishable from strength.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:22 | 1595784 fonestar
fonestar's picture

well if it pleases you, we Canadians also surrendered "the good of the intellect" and followed you down.  Remember to support the troops and anyone else who passively obeys orders.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:42 | 1596116 fonestar
fonestar's picture

"For we have reached the place of which I spoke,
where you will see the miserable people,
those who have lost the good of intellect."




Wed, 08/24/2011 - 18:19 | 1596940 malikai
malikai's picture

You have upset the trolls and bots which have taken over this site.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:24 | 1595792 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Ahhhhh fonestar.... we did not have much choice. Our representatives gave us no say so about Afghanistan and Irag. So yes it is taxation without representation. Our imploding paper empire will effect the country you live in as well. So I guess we all are stupid?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:22 | 1596031 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

We hypothetically voted in a guy who was going to scale down wars and bring troops home. When you are lied to, you are lied to.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:27 | 1596050 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Damn rights!  We have all been lied to and I am pissed!  And I am not here to kowtow to some white collar astrologist-economist schmuck either as vijay may have misunderstood.  Get angry and get even!

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:47 | 1596131 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Yeah sucks but...considering that "his" party has been just as hawk and terrorist boogeybooed as the "other" party and considering that it's all about oil and an unsuccessful if not dishonest murderous strategy to obtain the last sweet easy crude, I'd say we shouldn't be too surprised. What I am surprised about is those silly polls that say most of us hate this war, most of hate these banks, and most us now hate the bastards that serve them and yet....  

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:57 | 1596175 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Taxation without representation. It is pretty clear, isn't it?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:45 | 1595877 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Our ponzi is bigger than yours

Wait til Obama rolls out his new NATIONAL LIFE INSURANCE plan. Cuz every merican has a right to ca$h when they momma ( o baby mama ) die.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:54 | 1595913 viahj
viahj's picture

your juvenile comments are certainly not appropriate for the audience here at ZH, so get over yourself and realize where you are and who are here.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:11 | 1595987 fonestar
fonestar's picture

Right.... we just deal with effects and not causation hey?  I guess that is the "mature" thing to do.  Not to question authority like a rational animal or how you got yourself into this fucking mess hey?  Why not go and volunteer yourself as cannon fodder now then?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:15 | 1595998 fonestar
fonestar's picture

and PS who the f*ck do you think you are to deem what is "appropriate" for the audience of ZH?  Some appointed spokesperson?  Maybe I should self-censor now that we are getting spotlight from the schmucks at CNBC?  Ooooh, a fund manager might be reading this... I feel so important!  This is the internet dude, deal with it or go choke on one...

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 15:10 | 1596223 viahj
viahj's picture

you missed the point, again.  most of us here at ZH do not support the gov't, TPTB, the TBTF, etc.. and their actions.  you are targeting the wrong audience with your statments towards those Americans that are aware of these things.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 19:51 | 1597367 prole
prole's picture

fonestar = tool with stupid empty message.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 21:06 | 1597648 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

YUP FONE, thats rights, and it sure the f isnt going to be americans that are going to 'pay' for it. Why do you think we BORROWED all the money? BECAUSE WE ARE NEVER GOING TO PAY IT BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why do you think we have Obama in office????  What black man do you know who racks up 4+ TRILLION in debt and DOESN'T default??????? Name 1, I dare you!   One misplaced CHINESE fired bullet and its ON, with the fruckers and *poof* 2+ tril in debt, GONE.  We can borrow some more from someone else who we are not going to pay to fund that war.  

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:03 | 1595683 greyghost
greyghost's picture

well the nonstop assault on gold and silver is ongoing. wonder how much of this is selling to meet demand else where? margin calls on stock and bonds, etc.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:11 | 1595731 greyghost
greyghost's picture

seven minutes later another take down on gold and silver. something big going on behind the scenes?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:20 | 1595774 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

TPTB want your gold at cheap prices.  They have limited resources to manipulate gold prices, at least in the form of margin hikes.  However, if they faced no other limitations would gold be more likely to price at $2000 or $300?  Clearly they have limitations.

Why now?  I can only think of two things.  Either Jackson Hole is likely to result in panicked buying of gold, or the market just got too frothy and they had to use up some of their ammo.  Either way, this is likely to end up like it did in May.  Give it a month or so and we will be right back at $2000.  (Unless they announce a gold standard, then all the traders they drove out of the market will miss the move.)

Markets move for a reason, and it sure wasn't parabolic pricing that caused the drop in prices.  The drop in prices is clearly orchestrated and wilful.  The drift up in prices is all over the place, clearly telling us the sell off is a manipulation of price (which you already knew).

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:22 | 1595782 Aguadulce
Aguadulce's picture

How about a european nation dumping their reserves to raise capital?  Next train leaving Lisbon..the AU express....

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 23:09 | 1598019 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"----The Wizard of Oz.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:16 | 1595684 NuYawkFrankie
NuYawkFrankie's picture

Youz only be here to serve zee Fatherland - oops! - zee Homeland

If youz haff problem wiz dat,  maybee vee come visit, to explain - at 3 o'clock in zee morning - yah ?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:03 | 1595688 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

They can't seize what they can't find bitchez.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:10 | 1595725 V in PA
V in PA's picture

V no Jew av it. FEMA 4 jew

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:04 | 1595689 Randy Kruger
Randy Kruger's picture

If you have assets to protect, stop bitching and see a good tax lawyer/accountant specializing in asset protection.   For every rule there is an escape.  If you have no assets to protect, what's there to bitch about?

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:08 | 1595715 pods
pods's picture

Sure, just ask anyone who has fallen victim to these "civil forfeiture" torts.

You cannot hide from that, sorry.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:22 | 1595737 Randy Kruger
Randy Kruger's picture

Don't deal drugs or get involved with them mafia or terrorists and you'll be ok on that front, right ;-)

Jokes aside, make sure no asset you own is free and clear and you should be in decent shape.  If you have to take your paper out to Bermuda, do so, but you don't have to divest the assets.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:27 | 1595800 pods
pods's picture

They call it "civil forfeiture" because there is NO crime.  (Think I am seeing your sarcasm now)

Search down in the Texas and Louisiana area, people would make $$ gambling and the locals would seize whatever they wanted.  Revenuers indeed! 

I would agree that never owning anything is one defense, of course, they can seize it and you merely have to pay off the mortgage holder, so basically you would have to defend your property twice and still get screwed.


Wed, 08/24/2011 - 13:35 | 1595830 Randy Kruger
Randy Kruger's picture

You are missing my point.  Control your own paper and you got a senior claim.  Furthermore, just the presence of such claim is a mighty incentive against following through with seizure.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:52 | 1596161 damnitalready
damnitalready's picture

Control your own paper?  What do you mean by that?

Oh, you think the cops are going to give a damn that your house isn't yours free and clear, that it's encumbered with a lien so they won't seize it?

Bull.  They could care less.  It's the physical asset they'll take, leaving you to sort the rest of the details out later.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 16:55 | 1596606 Randy Kruger
Randy Kruger's picture

Your question is case-in-point why those who wish to protect their assets should get professional advice, hopefully with attorney/client confidentiality involved.  

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 14:50 | 1596147 damnitalready
damnitalready's picture

Nope, own a house and two people walking down the sidewalk step on your yard and conduct a drug trade, your house can be seized.

Own a rental, and you can't discriminate against who you rent to, but if they do drugs in your rental house (unbeknownst to you) you can lose your rental.

But of course this is only if you're not well connected.  The DA who's son was busted dealing drugs out of her house kept her house... but you and I would have lost it.

You're looking for a logical way to defend against this, and there isn't really one.  The simple fact that once your stuff is seized *you most likely will not get it back* whether or not you are ever charged with, nevermind convicted of, a crime, should show you that you're property is their property, if they want it to be.

Wed, 08/24/2011 - 21:02 | 1597640 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

*Wrong* -- quick, check to make sure your still have yur $20 left on your SNAP card!!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!