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Guest Post: War Pigs - The Fall Of A Global Empire

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Submitted by Jim Quinn from The Burning Platform

War Pigs - The Fall Of A Global Empire

We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security.”  -Dwight D. Eisenhower

“How far can you go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?” -Dwight D. Eisenhower

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like witches at black masses
Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerers of deaths construction

In the fields the bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning
Death and hatred to mankind
Poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!
                             Black Sabbath – War Pigs

As Americans mindlessly celebrate another Memorial Day with cookouts, beer and burgers, the U.S. war machine keeps churning. As we brutally enforce our will on foreign countries, we create more people that hate us. They don’t hate us for our freedom. They hate us because we have invaded and occupied their countries. They hate us because we kill innocent people with predator drones. They hate us for our hypocrisy regarding democracy and freedom. Just when we had the opportunity to make a sensible decision by leaving Iraq and exiting the Middle East quagmire, Obama made the abysmal choice to casually sacrifice more troops in the Afghan shithole. We have thrown over $1.3 trillion down Middle East rat holes over the last 11 years with no discernible benefit to the citizens of the United States. George Bush and Barack Obama did this to prove  they were true statesmen. The Soviet Union killed over 1 million Afghans, while driving another 5 million out of the country and retreated as a bankrupted and defeated shell after ten years. Young Americans continue to die, for whom and for what? Our foreign policy during the last eleven years can be summed up in one military term, SNAFU – Situation Normal All Fucked Up. These endless foreign interventions under the guise of a War on Terror are a smoke screen for what is really going on in this country. When a government has unsolvable domestic problems, they try to distract the willfully ignorant masses by proactively creating foreign conflicts based upon false pretenses.  General Douglas MacArthur understood this danger to our liberty.

“I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.”

Economic Opportunity Cost

“You can’t say civilization don’t advance… in every war they kill you in a new way.”  – Will Rogers

Any doubt that the Military Industrial Complex is as strong as ever should be removed after examining Obama’s 2012 Budget which has $900 billion dedicated to our military machine. We spent $370 billion in 2001, $620 billion in 2006, and now this liberal anti-war Democrat from Illinois is spending 45% more than that war monger Bush who was burned in effigy by the anti-war Democrats during Iraq War protests. It seems both parties are war pigs.

The Soviet Union collapsed in 1989, leaving the United States as the only remaining superpower on earth. Since 1990, the United States has depleted the U.S. Treasury of $11.5 trillion for spending on War. With no military on earth capable of challenging us why would there be a need to spend this much on the military? Over this same time frame the U.S. spent $500 billion on science, space & technology and $70 billion on energy, a mere 6% of the spending on invading sovereign countries. Military expenditures benefit humanity in no way. If these trillions had been invested by the private sector or devoted to energy and scientific research, our economy might not be a hollowed out shell, dependent on China for financing and oil exporting countries for energy. Neo-Cons argue the Arms Industry employs millions and benefits the country. These companies employ brilliant engineers and scientists who spend their days developing weapons that kill people more efficiently. If they had been employed manufacturing high tech goods to export around the world, inventing new technologies that didn’t obliterate human beings, newer safer nuclear power plants, a more efficient electric grid, upgrading our deteriorating infrastructure, or finding a cure for Alzheimer’s, would the United States be better off today?

The National Debt in 1990 was $3.2 trillion. Today, it is $15.7 trillion. This is a 500% increase in twenty-two years. What benefit has $11.5 trillion of spending on War produced for the United States or the world? In 2001, spending on Defense was 17% of total governmental spending. In 2012, Defense, Homeland Security, and war spending account for 25% of government spending. In the meantime, major cities experience blackouts due to an overloaded electrical grid, our 156,000 structurally deficient bridges crumble, one hundred year old water pipes burst under our streets every day, and we transfer over $300 billion per year to foreign countries for our precious oil. The 19 terrorist hijackers who implemented their plan with box cutters, spent less than $500,000 to pull off their 9/11 acts of terror – not war. The United States will directly spend at least $3 trillion on our wars of choice in response, while turning our country into a prison camp and stripping our citizens of their freedoms and liberties for perceived security and safety.

You would think we must be trying to keep up with our enemies by spending $900 billion per year on past and present military adventures. But one look at the following chart reveals the United States is spending almost as much as the rest of the world combined. The two countries considered potential rivals, China and Russia, spent $200 billion combined in 2010. This is 22% of U.S. spending. From a foreign viewpoint, one must wonder why the U.S. is spending such vast sums on our military. They can only conclude that it is for offensive intentions rather than defensive. The United States soil has not been attacked by a foreign power since December 7, 1941. Prior to that surprise attack, a foreign power hadn’t attacked the U.S. since the War of 1812. With this stupendous level of wasteful spending, our leaders feel compelled to interfere in the business of sovereign states and dictate how they should govern their nations . When you have an enormous hammer, every country looks like a nail.

Laughably, the neo-con hawks and Fox News pundits declare that our military is a hollow shell and needs much greater funding to insure our safety from attack by our many enemies. Other countries, such as China and Russia, feel they have no choice but to increase their expenditures on the military. On a percentage basis, they have more than doubled their expenditures in the last ten years, and still are a drop in the ocean compared to  American Empire spending. The fact is that the U.S., China and Russia all have enough nuclear weapons to obliterate the world – mutually assured destruction. The United States could realistically protect itself from attack with only the 18 ballistic missile nuclear submarines we have in commission.

When did Americans lose their ability to distinguish between intellectual and moral pygmies like George Bush, Barack Obama and Mitt Romney versus statesmen like Dwight D. Eisenhower? The Bush Doctrine of pre-emptive war when our country was not threatened has proven to be financially and diplomatically disastrous and his blueprint is being followed by our Nobel Peace Prize President in his saber rattling with Iran. Following this policy puts them in fine company.

“Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing.” -Dwight D. Eisenhower

The U.S. borrowed $807 billion from China, Japan and oil exporting countries to wage a war in Iraq that was based on false pretenses. None of the terrorist hijackers on 9/11 were Iraqis, they had no links to Al Qaeda, and Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. Historian Barbara Tuchman description of “war as the unfolding of miscalculations” was never so fitting. In 2002, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld estimated the costs of the war in the range of $50 to $60 billion, a portion of which he believed would be financed by other countries. The United States invaded Iraq to secure the 115 billion barrels of oil reserves, pure and simple. We traded the blood of young Americans for oil because we chose to not develop a cohesive logical energy policy in the last 30 years. Americans, not in the military, sacrificed nothing in the last 11 years of war. We bought BMW SUVs, 6,000 square foot McMansions, flat screen HDTVs, iPads, iPhones and Rolexes while less than 1% of Americans fought and died, with the cost passed to future unborn generations. We are a country of chickenhawks, willing to sacrifice the few so the ruling class can comfortably relax on their decks sipping wine, believing Fox News propaganda about terrorists lurking behind every bush, and filling up their Mercedes convertibles for their excursions to the summer cottage in the Hamptons.

“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.”  – Dwight D. Eisenhower

 As we spend $900 billion per year on instruments of destruction, 49 million Americans live in poverty, with 46 million on food stamps. There are 3 to 4 million people homeless in any given year. Military Veterans, who make up 13% of the population, account for 23% of the homeless. This is another example of Federal government politicians using young Americans to fulfill their agenda and then tossing them away like pieces of garbage. With the country supposedly three years into an economic recovery, tent cities of homeless dot the landscape across the nation. We pour billions into killing technology while millions of American families are forced to live in tents or sleep in their cars.

As the world spends $1.7 trillion per year on new methods of killing, millions die the old fashioned way.

  • 13 million people per year die from starvation in the world.
  • The FAO says that 925 million people worldwide are undernourished.  
  • For the price of one missile, a school full of hungry children could eat lunch every day for 5 years.
  • One child dies every 5 seconds as a result of hunger – 700 every hour – 16 000 each day – 6 million each year – 60% of all child deaths (2002-2008 estimates)

What kind of a civilized society allocates 44% of the taxes taken from its people to war? Only 2.5% of your taxes go to science, energy, and environment. Only 2.2% of your taxes go to education and jobs. You produce the results that you would expect from your investments. A full 13% of our population doesn’t have a high school diploma (20% of African Americans & 43% of Latinos) and only 30% have a college degree. How do we expect to lead the world in technology and research with these figures? We do lead the world in government issued student loan debt with $1 trillion and rising.

Human Cost

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgment day comes, yeah!

                    Black Sabbath – War Pigs

George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Barack Obama are cowardly politicians who never had the “pleasure” of coming under fire in battle. The brilliant anti-war novel Catch-22 describes these men perfectly.

“Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.”

The world has been a huge game of Risk for these warmongers, with young Americans as the game pieces. Instead of conquering Kamchatka in a board game, these non-veterans sent 6,470 Americans to their deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan for a false cause. Their ideology of empire convinced them they could change the world into their image of how it should be, and their re-election campaigns were funded with millions from the purveyors of death – the arms industry.

“In modern war… you will die like a dog for no good reason.” – Ernest Hemingway

Another 47,545 Americans have been badly wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Three of these despicable politicians have written their memoirs, raking in millions for telling lies and half-truths. The 6,470 dead Americans won’t have a chance to write their memoirs or get rich. They will never get a chance to see their kids’ graduate college or walk their daughter down the aisle at her wedding. Their children will grow up with a giant hole in their hearts. Their widows will never recover from their endless heartache.

Politician chickenhawks who send our young people to their deaths for oil and ideology will receive their reward on judgment day if there is a just God.

As National Guard troops have been deployed over and over again to Iraq and Afghanistan, they must realize that Catch-22 is alive and well in today’s military.

“There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one’s own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn’t, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn’t have to; but if he didn’t want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle.”

 ”That’s some catch, that catch-22,” he observed.

 ”It’s the best there is,” Doc Daneeka agreed

American soldiers, who have completed their duty to country, have been lied to and had the rules of the game changed again and again. Their politician leaders have reneged on their promises by sending men and women back to the war zone or not letting them come home on the timeline that was agreed to. Meanwhile, their families have gone bankrupt, lost their houses, and saw their marriages dissolve. Politicians started these wars and are too cowardly and prideful to accept failure.

“The military don’t start wars. Politicians start wars.”  – General William Westmoreland

Over 1,300 more Americans died needlessly when Barack Obama, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, chose to double down in Afghanistan to prove he was as tough as Bush and McCain. Another man who has never been under fire needed to prove his manliness to his opponents and his constituency. He should have studied the words of former Presidents who were under fire.

I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity.” - Dwight D. Eisenhower

“My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth.” - George Washington

President Obama follows the standard Presidential game plan and dutifully gives patriotic speeches at military bases proclaiming the bravery and sacrifice of our troops. These are the words of politicians. The brutal reality for troops is much different. Representative Ron Paul in November 2003 described the early mistreatment of our soldiers:

  • Fort Stewart, Georgia housed hundreds of injured reserve and National Guard soldiers in deplorable conditions who were forced to wait months just to see a doctor. These soldiers made huge sacrifices, leaving their families and jobs to fight in Iraq. They found themselves living in hot, crowded, unsanitary barracks and waiting far too long to see overworked doctors. This was hardly the heroes’ welcome they might have expected. Only an exposé in a major newspaper brought attention to their plight, prompting an embarrassed Defense department to rush additional doctors to the base.
  • Some wounded soldiers convalescing at Walter Reed hospital in Washington were forced to pay for hospital meals from their own pockets. Other soldiers returning stateside for a two-week liberty had to buy their own airfare home from the east coast. Still others paid for desert boots, night vision goggles, and other military necessities with personal funds.
  • Existing federal rules forced disabled veterans to give up their military retirement pay in order to receive VA disability benefits. This meant that every VA disability dollar paid to a veteran was deducted from his retirement pay, effectively creating a “disabled veterans tax.” No other group of federal employees is subject to this unfair standard; in every other case disability pay is viewed as distinct from standard retirement pay.

The Humvees that soldiers were forced to drive did not have enough protective armor. In December 2004, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was giving one of his usual inspirational speeches when Army Spc. Thomas Wilson of the 278th Regimental Combat Team, a unit that consisted mainly of reservists from the Tennessee Army National Guard asked him a question:

“Why do we soldiers have to dig through local landfills for pieces of scrap metal and compromised ballistic glass to up-armor our vehicles?”

This set off what the AP described as “a big cheer” from his comrades in arms. Rumsfeld paused, asked Wilson to repeat the question, then finally replied, “You go to war with the army you have.” Besides, he added, “You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can be blown up.” I’m glad Donald Rumsfeld has a clear conscience. History will not be kind to this despicable excuse for a human being.

Rumsfeld also sent Americans into battle without protective body armor. Only after bad publicity did the proper protection reach the troops. The blood of dead soldiers is on Rumsfeld’s hands. While President Bush sacrificed by not golfing, terribly wounded soldiers were sent to Walter Reed Hospital to recover. Instead they entered hell on earth. Outpatient mistreatment was reported in 2004, but nothing was done. In 2004 and 2005, articles appeared in the Washington Post and in Salon interviewing First Lt. Julian Goodrum about his court martial for seeking medical care elsewhere due to poor conditions at WRAMC. A Washington Post expose in 2007 finally revealed the horrible mistreatment of our brave wounded soldiers. These reporters uncovered the following conditions:

  • WRAMC’s Building 18 was described in the article as rat- and cockroach-infested, with stained carpets, cheap mattresses, and black mold, with no heat and water reported by some soldiers at the facility. The unmonitored entrance created security problems, including reports of drug dealers in front of the facility. Injured soldiers stated they are forced to “pull guard duty” to obtain a level of security.
  • The typical soldier was required to file 22 documents with eight different commands – most of them off-post – to enter and exit the medical processing world, according to government investigators. Sixteen different information systems were used to process the forms, but few of them could communicate with one another. This complicated system has required some soldiers to prove they were in the Iraq War or the War in Afghanistan in order to obtain medical treatment and benefits because Walter Reed employees were unable to locate their records.

There was a tremendous surge in suicides by soldiers who have been pushed beyond their limits as they increased by 80% between 2004 and 2008. There are almost as many deaths by suicide as deaths in combat:

  • Overall, the services reported 434 suicides by personnel on active duty, significantly more than the 381 suicides by active-duty personnel reported in 2009. The 2010 total is below the 462 deaths in combat, excluding accidents and illness. In 2009, active-duty suicides exceeded deaths in battle.
  • Soldiers returning from long tours in Iraq or Afghanistan suffering from combat stress were sometimes met with scorn from their superiors and something bordering on neglect from some medical officials. As their largely untreated problems deteriorated, their marriages unraveled under the strain. They turned to alcohol and drugs and in some cases saw no other way out than suicide.
  • Healthcare officials at various installations who are struggling to help say they’re overwhelmed by huge numbers of troops returning from two, three or even four deployments with acute mental problems from combat.
  • Statistics on Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, obtained in 2011 through a Freedom of Information Act request by a San Francisco newspaper, found that more than 2,200 soldiers died within two years of leaving the service, and about half had been undergoing treatment for post-traumatic stress or other combat-induced mental disorders at the time.
  • For five years, beginning in 2005, a service member died by suicide every 36 hours, according to the report by the Center for New American Security.

Nearly 20% of military service members who have returned from Iraq and Afghanistan — 300,000 in all — report symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder or major depression, yet only slightly more than half have sought treatment, according to a RAND Corporation report. Many service members said they do not seek treatment for psychological illnesses because they fear it will harm their careers. But even among those who do seek help for PTSD or major depression, only about half receive treatment that researchers consider “minimally adequate” for their illnesses. Recent studies expect PTSD to affect 30% of all returning veterans.

For all the glory and accolades of dying for chickenhawks like Dick Cheney, enlisted soldiers make between $17,000 and $32,000 per year. The military evidently does not prepare them well for the outside world as their unemployment rate is 12.1% versus the national rate of 8.2%. The pandering Obama gives speeches and the criminal bankers at JP Morgan have their PR maggots create TV commercials about hiring veterans, but the numbers don’t lie. A country can be measured by how well it treats its veterans. Our leaders talk a good game, but their actions prove they don’t care about the human costs of war. They are busy planning their next move in their game of Risk.

Moral Cost

Now in darkness, world stops turning
As the war machine keeps burning
No more war pigs of the power

Hand of God has struck the hour
Day of Judgment, God is calling
On their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings
All right now!

                  Black Sabbath – War Pigs

Omar Bradley, the last five star General in the U.S. military, was known as the “soldier’s general” during World War II. He was portrayed by Karl Malden in the movie Patton as a thoughtful man who cared about his troops. He was one of the key architects of the Normandy invasion and led the 12th Army Group consisting of 900,000 men until the end of the war. After the war, Bradley headed the Veterans Administration for two years. He is credited with doing much to improve its health care system and with helping veterans receive their educational benefits under the G.I. Bill of Rights. He ultimately rose to Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Contrast the words of the fictional Colonel Kilgore from the movie Apocalypse Now, with the words of General Bradley:

Kilgore: I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn’t find one of ‘em, not one stinkin’ dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like
[ sniffing, pondering ]
victory. Someday this war’s gonna end…
[ suddenly walks off ]


“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living.” - Omar Bradley

We need giants like Omar Bradley and Dwight D. Eisenhower to lead our country through the difficult times ahead. These men knew the horrors of war and didn’t act like it was a game of chess. Instead we will be led by intellectual and ethical infants, Obama or Romney. There are no wise men with a conscience and high moral standards in power today. Only those with no conscience and a willingness to lie are able to gain power in today’s world. General Bradley understood that morality was ultimately more important than power and strength in determining the progress of a country. His words are those of someone who knew we had failed in our moral duty:

“We have grasped the mystery of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount.”

Peacemakers are ridiculed and shunned in America today. Those who preach diplomacy and non-interventionism, like Ron Paul, are scorned and ignored. Old men who care more about their own power than the human race are willing to sacrifice the blood of young people for precious oil, phony nationalism, their own strategic interests or corporate interests disguised as philosophical agendas. The world is a game for these old men. They care about their personal legacy and rigid ideologies. War and militarism are a failure of passion over reason. Albert Einstein, whose discovery brought about this age of potential world destruction, had no love for these blind warriors.

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.”

The overwhelming cost of maintaining a global empire eventually bankrupted Rome and Great Britain. Treasures were wasted, young men were needlessly sacrificed in the name of the flag, and the morality of leaders sank to unprecedented levels. The U.S. had advanced financially and technologically for more than a century, but since the takeover of our economic system by private banking and corporate interests in 1913 we have seen continuous war, continuous currency debasement, and continuous moral decay. How far will we decline before a sufficient number of Americans are outraged enough to lead a new American Revolution?

Our current situation reminds me of the movie Planet of the Apes. The apes are divided into a strict class system: the gorillas as police, military, and hunters; the orangutans as administrators, politicians and lawyers; and the chimpanzees as intellectuals and scientists. Humans, who cannot talk, are considered feral vermin and are hunted and used for scientific experimentation. The United States is now in the control of gorillas and orangutans. If we continue down the current path of financial and moral decay, allowing the Military Industrial Complex, criminal bankers and corrupt politicians to push us into further world conflicts, we will experience the shock and horror that George Taylor, played by Charlton Heston, displayed in the final scene of Planet of the Apes .

George Taylor: Oh my God. I’m back. I’m home. All the time, it was… We finally really did it.

 [ screaming ]

 You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

The War Pigs must be stopped before it’s too late. The Military Industrial Complex, with the unwavering support of central bankers printing unlimited amounts of fiat currency, while controlling the scoundrel puppets in Washington DC, will destroy this country in their never ending quest for power and profits. One man fights a lonely battle against these forces of oppression. We must join his legion and take this country back from the war pigs.

“As many frustrated Americans who have joined the Tea Party realize, we cannot stand against big government at home while supporting it abroad. We cannot talk about fiscal responsibility while spending trillions on occupying and bullying the rest of the world. We cannot talk about the budget deficit and spiraling domestic spending without looking at the costs of maintaining an American empire of more than 700 military bases in more than 120 foreign countries. We cannot pat ourselves on the back for cutting a few thousand dollars from a nature preserve or an inner-city swimming pool at home while turning a blind eye to a Pentagon budget that nearly equals those of the rest of the world combined.” Ron Paul


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Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:37 | 2467396 spinone
spinone's picture

We are in Afganistan to keep china from the middle east

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:50 | 2467421 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

The Careless Whisper SUNDAY Reading,Video List & Threadjacking


What Does It Take To Get Prosecuted In This Town?

LA Slimes; "Rand Paul Talks Like An 8th Grader" (MD, Duke University),0,7407923.story?track=icymi

Funniest Sunday VIDEO: Lady Drives Into Bank Of America Branch In Florida; "No Idea How",0,7367356.story

Hedge Fund Takes Winning Side Of $2 Billion Trading Loss By US Guaranted "Bank"

Pentagon Awards Exclusive No-Bid Contract To Russian Arms Dealer

Record Price For South Beach Condo

Source Of Vatican Bank Leaked Docs --- Pope's Butler;    VIDEO

Northstar And Kyle Plan June Wedding;   VIDEO






Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:33 | 2467484 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

When you study the history of mankind, what you'll actually be studying is the history of warfare.

Humans have engaged in warfare ever since the first weapon was invented, whether rock, spear, sword, rifle, cannon, or nuclear bomb.

As Douglas MacArthur once quipped, "Only the dead have seen the end of war."

Memorial day is about remembering lost family members or brothers in arms, not about the politics of war.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:35 | 2467487 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

And the greatest weapons of all are the lies created by Elites to control our brains. 

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:18 | 2467570 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

What you've failed to comprehend is that since birth, everything you've learned is a lie.

“No.  But I’m afraid of the awesomeness of your knowledge.  There is no solace for me, no haven to go to.”

“You’re again confusing issues.  Solace, haven, fear, all of them are moods that you have learned without ever questioning their values.  As one can see, the black magicians have already engaged all your allegiance.”

“Who are the black magicians, don Juan?”

“Our fellow men are the black magicians.  And since you are with them, you too are a black magician.  Think for a moment.  Can you deviate from the path that they’ve lined up for you?  No.  Your thoughts and your actions are fixed forever in their terms.  That is slavery.  I, on the other hand, brought you freedom.  Freedom is expensive, but the price is not impossible.  So, fear your captors, your masters.  Don’t waste your time and your power fearing me.”

Tales Of Power

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:40 | 2469202 Hard1
Hard1's picture

All these advances in technology and the US creates more collateral damage than tactical damage.  I know people who wrongly have been suspected of being criminals and their lives are destroyed. SNAFU

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 18:35 | 2467840 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

What a desturbing article.  The thing that got me the most was the equal number of deaths by suicide as in war.  If only these poor soldiers had redirected their anger, misery, frustation at the the elites that put them in that position.  Soon enough.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:14 | 2468204 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

War is nothing like the heroic battle movies amrkns are fed by Hollywood. . .

For the second year (2010) in a row, more US soldiers killed themselves (468) than died in combat (462). “If you… know the one thing that causes people to commit suicide, please let us know,” General Peter Chiarelli told the Army Times, “because we don’t know.”

“In 2003, a survey of female veterans found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military. A 2004 study of veterans who were seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving. And a 1995 study of female veterans of the Gulf and earlier wars, found that 90 percent had been sexually harassed.”

The BBC recently reported on The Lonely Soldier: The Private War of Women Serving in Iraq by Helen Benedict. This book examines the extreme difficulties female soldiers have in serving abroad. Benedict interviewed several women in the military to get a deeper understanding of the issue, and some of their stories were real eye openers.

Army specialist Chantelle Henneberry spoke of some of her experiences in Iraq, “Everybody’s supposed to have a battle buddy in the army, and females are supposed to have one to go to the latrines with, or to the showers – that’s so you don’t get raped by one of the men on your own side. But because I was the only female there, I didn’t have a battle buddy. My battle buddy was my gun and my knife.”

save some lives, spread the word.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:46 | 2468251 nmewn
nmewn's picture

In western culture, women fought (politically) to get into the military.

Now they're in...with all that comes with it.

Weak men have been raped/sodomized for centuries in the military. She is correct to rely on her gun & knife (and her instinct & training) exclusively.

So now you know, it's not just a's an adventure, real men tried to tell you "guys" this but you wouldn't listen. The consulation prize is...most men in the military are not sexual predators. They protect each other if allowed to but always account for stray dogs ;-)


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 00:22 | 2468493 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

WTF nmewn!

so it's cool that one-third of the women in uniform are raped by the unifomed men, because they're "weak"?

does this also apply within the culture at home?  the weak should know they're gonna get raped?  because THEY are weak?  how about humans don't act that way if they want to be considered human??


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 00:52 | 2468526 mophead
Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:15 | 2469599 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


condie and powell escape the noose?

IT'S OFFICIAL - George W. Bush is a War Criminal   By Yvonne Ridley in Kuala Lumpur

In what is the first ever conviction of its kind anywhere in the world, the former US President and seven key members of his administration were on 11 May 2012 found guilty of war crimes.

Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their legal advisers Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo were tried in absentia in Malaysia.


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 15:07 | 2469890 The Heart
Mon, 05/28/2012 - 05:47 | 2468681 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I have to agree with nmewn. a soldier is not "just doing a job". he is a (temporarily) slave of the state to be expended as his leadership sees fit. war has never seen a period of clean, sane and humane treatment of "uniformed people", and this includes torture and rape (all war crimes).

we, in the West, should never have allowed women in uniform. remember that the uniform makes the wearer a valid target of violence by enemies of your country (i.e. not a war crime). putting women in the front lines is exposing them to all those dangers - including this kind of treatment by mentally brutalized other soldiers.

this "soldiering is just a kind of job" attitude is a bit worrysome. somehow big parts of the society just don't understand what war is anymore.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 07:16 | 2468730 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Cat see's enemies of women wherever she turns it seems...even to the point of implying I condone rape because I'm male. She knows better of me and is just trying to win a talking point in a dishonorable way.

You are correct.

Going into the military is not just a job, you can't just quit at your leisure. And I find citing a survey of percentages of rapes is not the same as proof of rapes even as I acknowlege they do happen. The number is too high. "My warrior women" would slit the perps throat in their sleep if they couldn't defeat them straight up thus increasing the "surveyed" murder rate as well.

This would be how a warrior handles an assault on them.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:12 | 2468959 mcguire
mcguire's picture

"The 19 terrorist hijackers who implemented their plan with box cutters, spent less than $500,000 to pull off their 9/11 acts of terror – not war."


wow, i wonder how pissed off the author will be when he realizes that 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!!!! kind of takes the whole "war pigs" thing to another level...  

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:27 | 2469007 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Basing your opinion on the few women you know, most likely family, doesn't mean the stats are wrong.

Rapists tend to choose the weakest, those who's terror they can feed off. Rape is about power, dominance, not sex.

And until your Warrior Women are put to the test you have no idea how they would react.

All training goes to shit in the real world. Especially on it's first trial.

Rape tends to be only once.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:57 | 2469086 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

IMHO you can't really separate sex from dominance, in the male psyche, and power is just a form of dominance...

but of course I'm an old-school european man that believes that women should not be exposed to war...

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:38 | 2469510 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


"you can't really separate sex from dominance, in the male psyche, and power is just a form of dominance"

Are you really going with that?

You can't comprehend the difference between sex and a crazed power trip that gets your rocks by degrading and destroying someone?

Rapists are mentally ill. Rape is a crime.

Take your time and consider your response.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 03:41 | 2470920 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

why don't you take your time to reread the whole point instead of going after soundbites? it's a matter of degree.

please remember that I have not been exposed to any PC restructurations of my vocabulary, I might be using the wrong words for you.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:06 | 2469107 nmewn
nmewn's picture

We are all products of our surroundings. The women I know are all (or mostly) graceful, self assured, independent, yet feminine & very strong willed.

Yes, predators (the human kind and in nature) seek out the weak. Weak meaning physical or mental-male or female.

And "mine" have been put to the test.

When I was young a predator thought my mother was weak (he broke down the front door)...I had to pull her off him fearing she would kill him with the club she was using...he was unconscious by the time I got there and she was still beating on him.

I've also seen my wife fight multiple attackers, I couldn't miss it, I was fighting them along with her. Her sister was there as well.

You forget, I'm from the South, sometimes we'd rather fight than eat ;-)

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 11:15 | 2469279 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If Simon Black thinks he's going to make me feel guilty for having some beer & BBQ today...


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:37 | 2469568 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Not that I really give a fuck who junked me... But this...


Simon Fucking Black wants to write this treatise on the horrors of war (to publish on Memorial Day ~ no less)... Not that I disagree that most modern (and probably ALL wars going back to the remotest of antiquity are just a bunch of BS concocted by the elite FOR PROFIT)... But what I oppose is SIMON BLACK setting himself up as GURU for being an OPPORTUNISTIC CAPTAIN OBVIOUS...

Gee Simon... Tell me something I don't know... While you're at it... Got a solution?... Oh, I know, your solution is to move to fucking New Zealand and use your magic powers to try and shoo the flies onto my potato salad this afternoon...

No thanks!

This country is generally corrupted by the power elite... There's not much I can do about it until I achieve the motivation to set myself ablaze on Capitol Hill (which will later be packaged by the MSM that I happened to have a copy of the Communist Manifesto in my back pocket & had been seen having sex with young boys while running a dog fighting ring in the weeks prior to my "un-patriotic" act)...


/end rant

Hedgeless Horseman... Can I get a witness? (how about some pics of your feast from your table ~ showing everyone that it is possible to live within the boundaries of the USA, yet object to the policies of the empowered elite [which ARE NOT the agenda of most so called 'Americans', but whereby Simon Black tells you your only alternative is to move to New Zealand])...

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:16 | 2469606 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

  We are all products of our surroundings.

I'm not.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:41 | 2469834 Umh
Umh's picture

Where did you get this idea. "Rape tends to be only once."

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:40 | 2470468 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your words make your point nmewn, not my words - your words.

She knows better of me and is just trying to win a talking point in a dishonorable way.

I don't know you at all, nor you me - we've had a few online discussions, and agreed to disagree, so feel free to stop patting me on the head like a child - make your argument or deflect it.

mine is that the lid is being lifted off the patriotic shit pail, and it's time for everyone to take a big ole whiff of what they think they salute and celebrate.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 21:53 | 2470574 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"She knows better of me and is just trying to win a talking point in a dishonorable way."

"I don't know you at all, nor you me - we've had a few online discussions, and agreed to disagree, so feel free to stop patting me on the head like a child - make your argument or deflect it."

...patting you on the head like a child...

Very well...playing the subservient victim card expecting equality through pity again. Ya know, this woman victimhood thingy your're trolling around is getting a little thin.

The women I know don't want special treatment in anything they do professionally, they can fend for themselves quite nicely. They are not weak, insecure, clutching people running around saying whoa is me.

They are strong willed individuals who happen to be women. I can't fathom a criminal assault going unreported or unchallenged at point of attack without the attacker getting hurt badly for the effort as evidence of an attack.

Let me repeat again...if one of them (mine) were raped, in whatever occupation they found themselves in, simple law or regulations or decorum would not prevent them from exacting retribution.

I hope I've made myself clear this time...but I'm sure your constant victimhood mileage will vary on a daily basis.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 23:32 | 2470731 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

way way out on that limb dude.

I've never played even the "woman" card personally, let alone "victim" - but you go on now with your warrior woman family stories.

the only purpose to my posts on this thread, and others, is to highlight the truths behind the flag-waving myths.

and I don't have to ask for "equality through pity" - but you've definitely framed your beliefs here in your choice of words, and depictions.

done here now, enjoy your holiday.


Tue, 05/29/2012 - 07:09 | 2471017 nmewn
nmewn's picture

You knew better (or should have) when you posted this:

"so it's cool that one-third of the women in uniform are raped by the unifomed men, because they're "weak"?"

You knew in your heart I've never held that view for one second. You were being dishonest to yourself and impugning my character at the same time. You can say you don't know me but you know I wish no malice toward's the exact opposite.

Have a good one.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:29 | 2469015 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Point out where he said it was "cool"?  Sometimes reality bites and the weak are preyed upon as no institution is perfect.  But go ahead and hold all institutions to your standard of perfection, it will be a disappointing life..

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:06 | 2469106 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

The reality is that there are men, and the military is apparentyl full of them, who do behave this way. It's not a question of morality, but of facts. Of course leftists choose to ignore facts when it serves their purposes of bringing about what they believe ought to be and then turn around to lay the blame on system and society for what is mere human nature when the facts come back to bite them. Here's a fact for you: without women in the military, women wouldn't be raped in the military.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:42 | 2470471 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

without women on the streets, in the homes, working jobs, forming relationships, women wouldn't be raped when they're out and about, or on their way to work, or sleeping in their beds.

stupid women.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 11:01 | 2469261 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Why don't you shut the fuck up!? You mean big mouthed, fat assed, bi-pedal toilets, signed up to go kill people who never harmed them, got paid to do this, and then got raped by their own guys?! Boo-fucking-hoo! They signed up with an organization, whose sole reason for existance, is killing people for profit. We should give half a shit what happens to them? What about the innocents their organization killed? This includes heaps of virtuous women, and children. Fuck army sluts.

Dirty bomb, Hacker, China, Tamil Tigers, Enriched, Los Zetas?FARC, IED, Homegrown, IRA, Target, Jihad?Hamas, Nigeria, Agro, Weapons Grade, plot ,PLF, Enriched, Pirates,Yemen, Ammonium Nitrate

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:18 | 2469769 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Why don't you stop paging the NSA and DHS with your fucking byline, shithead.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:30 | 2469018 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


So you just claimed that weak men have been raped in the military for centuries. Then you claim that real men tried to warn women away.

That suggest those real men were the ones raping their weak brothers in arms.

Is there something you want to share with the group?

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:23 | 2469121 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Gully, even boot camps have a brutalizing influence on recruits. War, with it's stark terror, is much worse.

There are currently units in Afghanistan where you get a welcome by brutal beating when you join and when you leave the unit - nothing new under this sun.

And roughing up a member of the unit that is considered "weak" is practically a reflex. At least in the old times you could escape this treatment by not donning the "combat" uniform and so being relatively safe by donning the "auxiliary" uniform and cleaning the other's equipment and so.

I know it's shocking, but combat zone soldiers trying to beat up or rape a fellow soldier considered "weak" - and women are considered so until proven otherwise - is practically ensured by the current policies. Blame the policies, not human nature under great stress. For all our great endeavors, we are not that far from chimps.

Perhaps all-female combat units would be the answer to the dilemma, but I understand the US Armed Forces do not want to have any kind of segregation because of the past all-black units...

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:21 | 2469455 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Are you equating hazing, biker gangs have brutal hazing too by the way, with ass rape?

Are you saying there are military units that greet you with assrape to welcome you into their ranks?

Is that unit based on OZ the tv series, or just made up of lifers just realeased from solitary?

"I know it's shocking, but combat zone soldiers trying to beat up or rape a fellow soldier considered "weak""

Now you are a complete moron.

Rape is a mental defect, like being a Psycopath.

Your defense is of a very few sick individuals who need treatment immediately.

Next time try thinking before you reply.

You just defended sick fucks and demeaned their military brothers by associating the two and rationalizing horrific activity as hazing.

By the way, how would you enjoy assrape? You seem to consider it acceptable for the "weak" to be raped, be it male or female.

Would you like your kids to be raped? Your wife or mother?


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:21 | 2469614 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Agreeing to kill people you don't know,  who are not a clear and immediate danger to yourself or your family for the sake of money or ribbons and metals, is a mental defect.

Like being a psychopath.

Sometimes, we all have to fight- but rational people don't seek it out.  If you volunteer to join killers, don't be surprised when they act IAW thier inherant nature and training.

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 03:32 | 2470917 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Gully, relax. I wrote beat up or (and I should have written in extreme cases) rape. And brutal behaviour of combat troops in warzones is not something that I am making up, this stuff is well documented. Including what happens in "simple" bootcamps.

I am not defending anybody. I am just saying: put good young people in this kind of environment and you will get so-and-so much of this behaviour. War is not pretty. War scrapes a lot of civilization off anybody.

I know enough military brothers that know this, too, and agree with me. I have been in war zones more often that I care remember, both in uniform and without.

The kids, wife and mother part I'll pass over, please see above how I'm pleading about not putting women in combat units or war zones.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:45 | 2469214 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"That suggest those real men were the ones raping their weak brothers in arms."

It suggests no such thing.

Real men of the warrior class don't commit rape. 

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:44 | 2469497 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


If real men are warning about rape either they participate or condone. There was no claim that the "real men" were reporting rape or even taking action against the sick fucks committing the CRIME of rape.

Real men understand that rapists have a mental illness. Real men report those rapists. Real men just don't give it a wink and a nod and turn a blind eye.

One can only infer Real men find rape acceptable. They find CRIMINAL ACTIVITY as normal. They fully ACCEPT the DEGRADATION of another person as just part of the game.


Warrior Class? What is this Dungeons and Dragons? Seventeenth century japan?

I fully understand the need to idolize and romanticise any aspect of modern life, everyone needs a fantasy.

Warrior class is only someone who learned to kill better than the previous guy and will eventually be taken out by a better opponent. Explain the romance to a crying child who misses his Father, or a weeping Mother who lost her son, or a Wife suddenly left with financial problems because her husband is dead.

So romantic it sends shivers down my spine.

( To be clear I have no problem with people CHOOSING the military as a career. Read Crito, Socrates makes many points about obligation to the state which seems to be lost in damn near discussion on government. I do have a problem with people accepting crime and atrocity is all part of the military mindset. It isn't. The only ones who find that "normal" are very damaged individuals. The ones with no empathy, the Sociopaths and Psychopaths.)

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 15:09 | 2469897 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Alright want to be an asshole about this, lets do it.

"If real men are warning about rape either they participate or condone."

Bullshit. You can know it happens yet never see it. This is neither condoning or participating.

I don't condone muggings (and assume you don't either but who knows) yet I know it happens, haven't seen anyone doing it. So, in your logic, I condone muggings or participate in them because I know they happen and have a good idea where they might happen.

"Warrior Class?"

You dispute there is a middle class as well? Or the elite class?

There are generations within families who have served, continue to serve and serve honorably. Its what they do...they are the warrior class.

Do you have some other descriptive definition?

I can guarantee one thing, they are not raping anyone as they would be disowned by their peers and family. And they don't do Victimology 101 either Gully.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:22 | 2468992 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Cathartes Aura

“In 2003, a survey of female veterans found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military."


Makes one wonder how many men are raped in the military.

Men tend not to report rape as it is embarassing and psychologically devestating.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:49 | 2470481 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

absolutely agree Gully Foyle, I'm sure those men who were raped - and they exist, their stories are out there should anyone care to find them - show up in the suicide stats, which, as I've linked, show more deaths by suicide than "in combat".

appreciate your posts here sir, best wishes.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:50 | 2469062 Pizza man
Pizza man's picture

but suicide demographics in the military only just recently topped the average numbers in society as a whole for that age group.


Yes, the trend is not good, but let's report factually

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:25 | 2469468 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Pizza man

A lot of people here bitch about Disability benefits.

Will they be complaining about this?

Almost half of new vets seek disability

America's newest veterans are filing for disability benefits at a historic rate, claiming to be the most medically and mentally troubled generation of former troops the nation has ever seen.

A staggering 45 percent of the 1.6 million veterans from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now seeking compensation for injuries they say are service-related. That is more than double the estimate of 21 percent who filed such claims after the Gulf War in the early 1990s, top government officials told The Associated Press.

What's more, these new veterans are claiming eight to nine ailments on average, and the most recent ones over the last year are claiming 11 to 14. By comparison, Vietnam veterans are currently receiving compensation for fewer than four, on average, and those from World War II and Korea, just two.

It's unclear how much worse off these new veterans are than their predecessors. Many factors are driving the dramatic increase in claims - the weak economy, more troops surviving wounds, and more awareness of problems such as concussions and PTSD. Almost one-third have been granted disability so far.

Government officials and some veterans' advocates say that veterans who might have been able to work with certain disabilities may be more inclined to seek benefits now because they lost jobs or can't find any. Aggressive outreach and advocacy efforts also have brought more veterans into the system, which must evaluate each claim to see if it is war-related. Payments range from $127 a month for a 10 percent disability to $2,769 for a full one.

As the nation commemorates the more than 6,400 troops who died in post-9/11 wars, the problems of those who survived also draw attention. These new veterans are seeking a level of help the government did not anticipate, and for which there is no special fund set aside to pay.

The Department of Veterans Affairs is mired in backlogged claims, but "our mission is to take care of whatever the population is," said Allison Hickey, the VA's undersecretary for benefits. "We want them to have what their entitlement is."

The 21 percent who filed claims in previous wars is Hickey's estimate of an average for Operation Desert Storm and Desert Shield. The VA has details only on the current disability claims being paid to veterans of each war.

The AP spent three months reviewing records and talking with doctors, government officials and former troops to take stock of the new veterans. They are different in many ways from those who fought before them.

More are from the Reserves and National Guard - 28 percent of those filing disability claims - rather than career military. Reserves and National Guard made up a greater percentage of troops in these wars than they did in previous ones. About 31 percent of Guard/Reserve new veterans have filed claims compared to 56 percent of career military ones.

More of the new veterans are women, accounting for 12 percent of those who have sought care through the VA. Women also served in greater numbers in these wars than in the past. Some female veterans are claiming PTSD due to military sexual trauma - a new challenge from a disability rating standpoint, Hickey said.

The new veterans have different types of injuries than previous veterans did. That's partly because improvised bombs have been the main weapon and because body armor and improved battlefield care allowed many of them to survive wounds that in past wars proved fatal.

"They're being kept alive at unprecedented rates," said Dr. David Cifu, the VA's medical rehabilitation chief. More than 95 percent of troops wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan have survived.

Larry Bailey II is an example. After tripping a rooftop bomb in Afghanistan last June, the 26-year-old Marine remembers flying into the air, then fellow troops attending to him.

"I pretty much knew that my legs were gone. My left hand, from what I remember I still had three fingers on it," although they didn't seem right, Bailey said. "I looked a few times but then they told me to stop looking." Bailey, who is from Zion, Ill., north of Chicago, ended up a triple amputee and expects to get a hand transplant this summer.

He is still transitioning from active duty and is not yet a veteran. Just over half of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans eligible for VA care have used it so far.

Of those who have sought VA care:

-More than 1,600 of them lost a limb; many others lost fingers or toes.

-At least 156 are blind, and thousands of others have impaired vision.

-More than 177,000 have hearing loss, and more than 350,000 report tinnitus - noise or ringing in the ears.

-Thousands are disfigured, as many as 200 of them so badly that they may need face transplants. One-quarter of battlefield injuries requiring evacuation included wounds to the face or jaw, one study found.

"The numbers are pretty staggering," said Dr. Bohdan Pomahac, a surgeon at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston who has done four face transplants on non-military patients and expects to start doing them soon on veterans.

Others have invisible wounds. More than 400,000 of these new veterans have been treated by the VA for a mental health problem, most commonly, PTSD.

Tens of thousands of veterans suffered traumatic brain injury, or TBI - mostly mild concussions from bomb blasts - and doctors don't know what's in store for them long-term. Cifu, of the VA, said that roughly 20 percent of active duty troops suffered concussions, but only one-third of them have symptoms lasting beyond a few months.

That's still a big number, and "it's very rare that someone has just a single concussion," said David Hovda, director of the UCLA Brain Injury Research Center. Suffering multiple concussions, or one soon after another, raises the risk of long-term problems. A brain injury also makes the brain more susceptible to PTSD, he said.

On a more mundane level, many new veterans have back, shoulder and knee problems, aggravated by carrying heavy packs and wearing the body armor that helped keep them alive. One recent study found that 19 percent required orthopedic surgery consultations and 4 percent needed surgery after returning from combat.

All of this adds up to more disability claims, which for years have been coming in faster than the government can handle them. The average wait to get a new one processed grows longer each month and is now about eight months - time that a frustrated, injured veteran might spend with no income.

More than 560,000 veterans from all wars currently have claims that are backlogged - older than 125 days.

The VA's benefits chief, Hickey, gave these reasons:

-Sheer volume. Disability claims from all veterans soared from 888,000 in 2008 to 1.3 million in 2011. Last year's included more than 230,000 new claims from Vietnam veterans and their survivors because of a change in what conditions can be considered related to Agent Orange exposure. Those complex, 50-year-old cases took more than a third of available staff, she said.

-High number of ailments per claim. When a veteran claims 11 to 14 problems, each one requires "due diligence" - a medical evaluation and proof that it is service-related, Hickey said.

-A new mandate to handle the oldest cases first. Because these tend to be the most complex, they have monopolized staff and pushed up average processing time on new claims, she said.

-Outmoded systems. The VA is streamlining and going to electronic records, but for now, "We have 4.4 million case files sitting around 56 regional offices that we have to work with; that slows us down significantly," Hickey said.

Barry Jesinoski, executive director of Disabled American Veterans, called Hickey's efforts "commendable," but said: "The VA has a long way to go" to meet veterans' needs. Even before the surge in Agent Orange cases, VA officials "were already at a place that was unacceptable" on backlogged claims, he said.

He and VA officials agree that the economy is motivating some claims. His group helps veterans file them, and he said that sometimes when veterans come in, "We'll say, `Is your back worse?' and they'll say, `No, I just lost my job.'"

Jesinoski does believe these veterans have more mental problems, especially from multiple deployments.

"You just can't keep sending people into war five, six or seven times and expect that they're going to come home just fine," he said.

For taxpayers, the ordeal is just beginning. With any war, the cost of caring for veterans rises for several decades and peaks 30 to 40 years later, when diseases of aging are more common, said Harvard economist Linda Bilmes. She estimates the health care and disability costs of the recent wars at $600 billion to $900 billion.

"This is a huge number and there's no money set aside," she said. "Unless we take steps now into some kind of fund that will grow over time, it's very plausible many people will feel we can't afford these benefits we overpromised."

How would that play to these veterans, who all volunteered and now expect the government to keep its end of the bargain?

"The deal was, if you get wounded, we're going to supply this level of support," Bilmes said. Right now, "there's a lot of sympathy and a lot of people want to help. But memories are short and times change."

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:50 | 2469542 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Disability benefits should be given out if you say you need them. The money should come from the pockets of the elite directly. Not everybody has to work these days. There is so much extra wealth on the planet that only a handful of people will have to work once we get the money back from the elite during this next collapse. I hear wispers that the military already has a plan. You can reverse engineer the moves that have already been made to see the way the chess game has progressed to arrive at the same conclusion. The military is setting up for a coup against the elite.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:53 | 2469074 Are you kidding
Are you kidding's picture

A "free" world can be a scary and dangerous place...if you can't hang, stay home.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:12 | 2469428 takeaction
takeaction's picture

@ Cathartes Aura   Did you see that 13 year old boys comment?  He kicks that war vet in the nads.  It is comment #1 and the response....Here it is for all to read.  Link at bottom for source.


Robert McLaughlin

My 2 cents... while I was deployed I saw a lot of whiny brats who flashed gang signs and live for facebook. Drill sergeants today have a rough road molly coddling the kids who complain about stress or being yelled at. 90% of those in the military should not have passed muster. Gone are the true warriors with iron constitutions, who can create a mental box for war and keep it apart from the rest of their lives. It's not something you have to like, it is just something you have to do. The enemy is personified, we see CNN stories of how they live and love. we need to depersonify them to kill them without remorse, like squashing a bug. We need to be mechanical and methodical and the war would have been over in a year. Instead we get second guessed by the press, the liberals, and the politically correct. We worry more about pretty uniforms, if we can have gay service members or not, and how the choices made may affect an election. People who plays a video game of war think they know about torture, intelligence, or tactics. Politicians worry about their squeamish constituents rather than the future of this country. War is simply the method to the solution. Don't like it? Choose another solution. Or don't watch it being done. People die. Sometimes quickly and sometimes slowly. If you can't compartmentalize it, you need to go raise puppies or something. The death of the enemy is a good thing to a warrior. In WWII they were hung from lamp posts. We no longer have the desire to break their will to fight, which is what is needed to win. we have no more Generals Patton or Eisenhower, no FDR or Truman. The true warriors in the ranks are held back, told to refrain from shooting, be PC, and lots of other BS. I have 30 years in the US Army, I know what I am talking about. Why no one else states the obvious is because they worry about what others may think. I worry about where this country is going, and at this rate what you think won't matter very soon.


Kids Response to comment....

The Schneit

Im sorry to say this sir, but i am a young thirteen year old boy who can clearly see that what youve just said is a load of bs. As others have already pointed out- WWII is a lot different than our modern day world and making the comparison makes you sound plain stupid. In world war two, soldiers knew that all of their efforts were for the best reasons possible- survival and freedom. On the other hand, soldiers nowadays dont even know what theyre fighting for and are fighting purely for patrioism. Doing things so courageous and brave is no easy thing in the first place, but having to do it when youre not sure if youre right or wrong is extremely stressful. Mix that in with the trauma of warfare and watching your loved ones die is unbearable. The fact that you say that people who cant forget about killing someone should go raise puppies is quite disturbing and shameful for you. If you truly have spent 30 years in the army(im not convinced) than i assure you that you have not forgotten the men youve had to kill and the friends youve had to watch die ( if you have than i believe it is fair to say that you are a pyscho)

In the end, instead of sounding like a respectable man from the military doing whats right for his country you sound more like a scared soldier trying to play the tough guy act 

To soldiers thinking about suicide
 From my perspective I believe that suicide is never ever the answer but rather perseverance through whatever your problem may be. Just think if you had a son and he had a problem, would you want him to kill himself? And just remember America supports you and knows the amazing things you have done we are eternally grateful


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 21:08 | 2470512 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I did see that - I often read the replies, or at least skim through most to get the jist, as it's a way of seeing where people's minds are currently "at" - the same "kid" does some patriotic flag-waving further down the thread, but it's good to see countering replies to knee-jerk patriotism. 

it's this habitual thinking, which isn't really thinking at all, just repeat behaviours unquestioned, that I hope to bring to some people's attention. . . I'm not so naive as to think it matters much, nor will it change the big picture, but it's what I do, share a differing perspective.

thanks for paying attention in your life.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:07 | 2468949 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

Dont worry, Cunt Napolitano has jobs for everyone grabbing asses in the TSA national police.

Soon those fucks will be deep throating a domestic metal ajcket going door to door. Drugs, illegals, not stopping at a stop sign?

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:40 | 2469516 q99x2
q99x2's picture

There are plenty more that still have the chance to become true heros.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 18:39 | 2467847 I am on to you
I am on to you's picture

Excately,and everybody is fighting everyone elses wars,spelled ,Slavery!

All these death on both sides,died in someone elses war,slavery,for what reason,slavery,to make someone else rich,slavery,and they even paid for someone elses wars,slavery=The Elites lie,now its the coporate elite,in the old days its was the Kings and even The Religion.

Only one way out"Socialism,misunderstood word"not ment in a political way,dosnt work in a political way,but as a mindset,love and respect, for your fellow Man/Woman,no greed attached,like my gun is bigger than your,my car i bigger than your,my father is stronger than yours!

IS that to much to ask for.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:43 | 2468131 Clockwork Orange
Clockwork Orange's picture

That's a good cop-out.  Enjoy your actionless remembering.  

The rest of us will work on eliminating the politics that causes all of it.

Perhaps you should reread the article.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:45 | 2469675 putaipan
putaipan's picture

"they died fighting protecting our freedoms" .... lie of 'the new american century'.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:52 | 2467532 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:22 | 2467659 shuckster
shuckster's picture

The Star of David

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:53 | 2468026 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Bull shit, utter bull shit. Blame America first, Comrade, how novel.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 22:03 | 2468277 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Chuck Walla upchucked:

Blame America first, Comrade, how novel.

Nice jingoism.

Are there specific points in the article that you dispute, or are you just making an appearance for the "Never Blame America" contingent?


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:30 | 2469017 smb12321
smb12321's picture

There is a HUGE difference between acknowledging your nation's faults and casting her as the enemy of mankind as many ZH posters do. Even today, in most developing nations there are long lines at US embassies trying to flee to this place that "nobody likes".

Why can't folks call for a common sense budget (maybe 15% of the current one) without going off the deep end insisting the US is the enemy of mankind? I criticize my country but hopefully recognize that it is unique in the world in (at least part of its history) upholding ideas of liberty and the rule of law. Don't those who eagerly bash the US see the irony that this nation gives them the freedom to do so without retribution? (Try that in Cuba, Syria, Mexico or Iran.)

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:46 | 2469054 heinrich6666
heinrich6666's picture

Yeah, there really isn't a lot that's accurate in what you said. Elections in the U.S. are routinely rigged or results are tampered with. And that's when people aren't knocked off voter rolls or sent to vote in empty lots.

On top of that your country's becoming a high-tech police state in order to keep all the peasants in line to support the soft overseas Empire -- soft as long as you aren't some Afghan kid getting blown to bits by a drone. But that's more truth and justice for you.

The fact that Cuba and Syria and Mexico and Iran have evil governments doesn't make the U.S. less evil. In fact, the U.S. has infinitely more capacity for mischief now that it's the last 'superpower'.

Today the U.S. is the most dangerous nation on earth. And it will be until it has been gutted and the power center shifts to some other country. Semper Fi.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:55 | 2469080 Pizza man
Pizza man's picture

Today the U.S. is the most dangerous nation on earth. And it will be until it has been gutted and the power center shifts to some other country. Semper Fi.


Fo Real? My aren't you student of history.


How about we fight to fix the problems and keep the best parts? In other words, F@#K YOU. Lead from the front asshole and tell us where you have moved to be part of the new benevolent leader.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:26 | 2469167 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you missed the lesson on empires

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:29 | 2469171 heinrich6666
heinrich6666's picture

Keep the best parts? Har. What's that? Entertainment and obesity? Being able to fire up your grill -- as long as your homeowners' association lets you?

Pavlovian patriots like you apparently are will never figure out that just because some other country has been a monster, too, doesn't mean you'll get away with it. Over 100,000 dead in the unnecessary and evil Iraq War. 100,000 dead. Think about that. There's a special place in Hell for anybody who had anything to do with that -- especially (sniff!) HEROES like our troops who have not fought a legitimate war in almost a century.

U.S. troops are a mercenary force, plain and simple. They are hired and paid to go fight other people's wars. They are a volunteer force, and for that reason Americans don't give a shit about the troops. Though they wrap themselves in yellow ribbons to cover that fact up. The rest of the country now is just a life support system for that mercenary force, itself used for purposes it'll never understand.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 11:02 | 2469263 wisefool
wisefool's picture

The way to fix it is to allow war wearyness to limit the USA's military adventurism. There is no way to stop the nationalist ferver ... untill it hits the majority of people in their pocketbook. As it stands now the vast majority of people and corporations are not required to pay for the MIC.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:44 | 2469684 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I am one of those who struggle with the rhetoric from time to time- There's some truth to what you say, in that the US is apparently free and better than many other parts of the world.

Here's the problem- we used to get riled up over relative trifles, and that is what made the state whose remnants you are enjoying today.  Now, no one cares even when our "leaders" declare for themselves the absolute right to strip our most basic rights from us.  Society has degenerated to the point where extreme rhetoric is the only thing that has any chance of penetrating the haze in peoples' minds.  

The rhetoric is an important antidote to public apathy.  If it is not applied and disseminated, the blowback will eventually be physical- and while I know that there are some who lust for that result, I'd rather not see my town in smoking ruins.  I'd much rather see people discussing things that make you uncomfortable in your jingo club, and taking smaller steps right now to avoid the massive destruction and death that outright civil war or an overt police state would bring.  That requires shocking people now and then, and I'm not about to give up and stroke the egos of politicos because it would make you feel better.

I don't want any of you to feel better.  I want you to oppose the NDAA, and help take back your country so that we can get back to being what smb12321 describes above.  Remember, past behavior is not indicative of future performance- and if we don't change course soon, the US some of you are defending will be gone forever.  It's almost dead now- be a patriot and help Lady Liberty, instead of making excuses for the men who raped her, beat her and left her for dead.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:37 | 2469194 Cyrano de Bivouac
Cyrano de Bivouac's picture

Careless Whisper thank you for mentioning the LA Times. They have been screaming for intervention in Syria for months. Their front page usually is composed of an attack on Mitt Romney(zzzzzz), the latest of the same sex marriage issue(zzzzzz) and the latest download from the State Department. It's so predictable I thought that the editor must be shorting the operation to make money as a the paper has been losing readership and advertisers for years.  Well they (LA Times) proudly announced that they will receive a 1 million dollar grant from the Ford Foundation. Voila! A zombie newspaper!

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 11:42 | 2469342 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

As the MSM newspapers go bankrupt, expect more foundation money to prop them up. This is because most charitable foundations are NWO shills, and were hijacked by Fabians and Cultural Marxists back in the mid-20th century. This is established fact.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:29 | 2469799 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Interrupting with an honest question-- How do we bankrupt the Foundations? They should go next

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:13 | 2469432 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Careless Whisper

First overly enriched fuel now this, someone is desperate for something to stick.

U.S. officials among the targets of Iran-linked assassination plots
Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:27 | 2467959 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

If Obama or Bush had to spend an hour on the front lines with these poor soldiers in Iraq, they would shit their girly pants! Fuck them!

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:18 | 2469148 fajensen
fajensen's picture

"Fragging" comes to mind. Can't imagine why.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 11:11 | 2469274 Tsukato
Tsukato's picture

Fuck those guys on the front line Corporate thugs oughta be eradicated. Fuck you too dumbass.

Dirty bomb, Hacker, China, Tamil Tigers, Enriched, Los Zetas?FARC, IED, Homegrown, IRA, Target, Jihad?Hamas, Nigeria, Agro, Weapons Grade, plot ,PLF, Enriched, Pirates,Yemen, Ammonium Nitrate

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:08 | 2469741 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

They should have to. Along with every Congressman who votes for war. Instead, they profit. It must be stopped.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:34 | 2467975 robobbob
robobbob's picture

why did this comment get so many dings? is it because he had forgot to mention to also make sure that all those planned pipelines only flow towards europe?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 23:21 | 2468397 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Hey Spinone, or is that "Spinal Cord?"  China has discovered a magnificent technological advancement: boats.  

With these they can have the riches of the Near East without resorting to camel caravan.  Go short The Silk Road.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 01:52 | 2468565 reddog
reddog's picture

NO! It's for the natural resources of Afghanistan and the Caspian Basin.


You are a sheep.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 02:24 | 2468585 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

And yet, Chuman has mining right to rate earth elements in Afghanistan. The CIA gets the poppies.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:27 | 2469170 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

pretty much

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:32 | 2469807 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

..and routes them through another prize of another unconstitutional war: Kosovo.

Somebody very high up has been very busy setting up a drug pipeline.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:33 | 2469028 flyme
flyme's picture

China doesn't want the Middle East. It's desires overlordship of Central Asia. He who dominates the roof of the world, holds the world in their palms.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:29 | 2469173 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

China deserves the Middle East.  Let them keep the peace there and pay for it too.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 12:11 | 2469425 Umh
Umh's picture

That would be a rational explanation. If it's true it just points out that the U.S. government lies to it's citizens.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:10 | 2470420 SwingForce
Sun, 05/27/2012 - 14:39 | 2467401 prains
prains's picture

here son have a flag to remember your father..................

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:05 | 2467445 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

From something very interesting I saw/heard just recently, it seems that this periodic, and logarithmically increasing human death toll (not just through war, but basically through machinery) is the balancing of the increase of the machine at the direct expense of humans. And if you look at it, it makes perfect sense. 

Our tolerance for collateral damage is constantly increasing. MTV's jackass made sure that dumbed down humans would do literally anything for thier 15 minutes of fame. That fractal dis-regard for life can be seen in the Wars, Increasing Accident rates world over, increasing Industrial accidents of increasing severity (DWH, FUKU, Kolantar, San Onofre ticking...on and on), increasing sickening from electro-smog....

AS our "production" rates for machinery march ever upwards in this supply-side paradigm, human destruction rates directly due to machinery sky-rocket in unision.

War is all about machinery. Imagine if it was just a grapple-fest?

Perhaps it's really time to launch the Butlerian jihad...



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:16 | 2467463 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Yea and I just heard the US invented war.

War hasn't always been around the next bend in the human race.

The US invented it.

The funny thing is the Syrian government is currently blowiing the crap out of it's people displaying the perpetual intolerance of the laggards of the human race

and zerobrains is posting what?

But thanks for playing.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:21 | 2467470 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

XP, you have just gone on a mad tangent there, sorry who is your comment in reply to as it was irrelevant to the posters above you and appeared almost randomly? 

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:38 | 2467488 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Think bigger next time.

His post could easily be from some Imam somewhere.

Tolerance for collateral damage while the US did actually invent sanitized war concept,

if the US had anything close to the tolerance for collateral damage that it did 70yrs ago,

Iraq would have been a giant sandbox in 10mins, instead of some sanitized conflict to pacify the liberal scumbags and enrich the war mongers.


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:46 | 2467522 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I'm not sure whether to reply to you with a "riiiiiiiight" or an "OKAAAAAAYY then"

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:00 | 2467549 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Just tell him to go fuck himself.  It's the only thing he's good at.  That, and being a chickenhawk.  They hate being called out.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:44 | 2467606 Joe The Plumber
Joe The Plumber's picture

I think its a her

Our zionist xenofrog with a new avatar

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 18:15 | 2467790 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

No, this is a paid by the word shill. You can tell from the tone, the needling. Look at the Imam swipe to my comments.

I'd say just ignore him. Totally.



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:22 | 2467943 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

This is days running now where you posted the earth was flat.

Americans tolerance for collateral damage is at AN ALL TIME LOW.

I could give a shit if you ignore me or not, just stop posting the earth is flat.


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:49 | 2468010 Zeilschip
Zeilschip's picture

You seem to be 'okay' with collateral damage. How about Israel being the collateral damage? As in 5 million dead, wiped off the face of the earth... I think we'd have a lot les problems in that part of the world.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:22 | 2468091 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

For sure.

Afterall behind northern and western europe,

the middle east has been the most violent place on earth since man first appeared.

As Islam has spread through Northern and Western Europe it hasn't resulted in an escalation of violence at all. Francestan, Swedenistan, United Kingdom of Muzzville are as peaceful and tranquil as ever.

For sure, eliminate those evil joos, that'll stem the violence.

It has worked very well in the rest of the middle east where those evil joos are all but gone and yet violence is everywhere.

You seem to be 'okay' with oppressive, intolerance taking over the world, so it would make sense to annihilate anything contrary, like Achmedinajad's down with the US stuff.





Sun, 05/27/2012 - 22:08 | 2468285 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Typical pablum you'd expect from an izzie firster.


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 23:04 | 2469116 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"sanitized war" 

oxymoron with an emphasis on the second half

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:53 | 2469235 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

And probably a radical fundmentalist one to boot.

wait for it....



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:23 | 2468219 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

@ Joe The Plumber:

I think its a her

Our zionist xenofrog with a new avatar

and, according to one of your posts, Mr. 3weeks 3days, your most recent account is to "chase her" around ZH.

so who were you before you became a stalker?




Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:33 | 2468233 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Obviously either Abdullah the Butcher or Achmed the Great,

they used to use John and either Jim or Randy as posting nicks.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:02 | 2467894 lewy14
lewy14's picture

You go fuck yourself, shitstain.

This whole post and this whole thread isn't pro-peace, it's pro-war. It's antagonistic agit-prop cointel aimed at the United States. You can claim it has it coming and that the United States is your enemy. Fine.

In which case, fuck you.

But all this crap hides behind concern-troll peacenick tusk tusking delusion which, at best, is self-contratulatory self righteous bullshit and more likely deliberate effort to weaken and destroy the ability of the US to project power - not in the furtherance of world peace, but to enable others to take over.

So again, fuck you.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:25 | 2467950 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, fuck you.  The MIL and the bankers and their endless wars, not to mention complete shill asshole propagandized fucks like you, are the true dangers to the freedom of ordinary Americans, not children living in huts in fucking Afghanistan.  Did I say Fuck you?  Fuck you you fucking mindless fuck.  

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:39 | 2467964 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Before I respond to the latest bit of pea brained lunacy,

planning on running away again like usual?

Cause much has not changed since the last running away.

Modern countries still need a banking system, military, food and fuel to operate,

remember two of which the delusional moonbats believe can be done away with and the other two taxed higher by eliminating rebates by somehow calling them subsidies.

Basically anti modern civilization.

war is still as inevitable as the sun is rising,

and it still hasn't changed; virtually eliminating famine and plague, the US has reduced global conflict not enhanced it.

Bye, time to run away again.


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:50 | 2468151 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

War is inevitable so long as complete fuckheads like you are around.

And don't flatter your narcissistic self.  I will never run away from you.  I will lose interest and go do other things, however.  Like tonight.  

On the last note, go fuck yourself.  Chickenhawk.  Why don't you tell your loyal readers which wars you have fought in since you are such a warmonger piece of human shit.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:01 | 2468172 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture


but you can stop them and I'm the narcissist.

Funny thing is like usual, your experience is neither new or novel,

you have always been around, and war has always been inevitable.

You run away all the time- almost daily,

so fucking confused you think you are a libertarian when you're really an anarchist.



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 22:51 | 2468343 prole
prole's picture

XP I think you are just a disrupter human or bot. You don't even have a discernable point you just seem to post antaginizing posts to harm the discourse and the board generally.

Why would a person even care enough to waste their time to do that at all?

You (even though your posts are stupid generally) are far too clever to run off and get your head blown up in Afpak. But I can't tell if you are posting from Mommy's basement, or chic federal (troll) dollar condo. Which is it? You don't  give a crap about this but for some reason you are here?

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 05:46 | 2468685 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture




I'm going with XP is a 'managed persona'


The US military are not the only ones using that type of software...

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:43 | 2469838 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Probably, and the next thing you know, this thread will get jacked by somebody spewing "US Citizenism."



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:30 | 2467966 Confused
Confused's picture

So I'm guessing you are pro-war?

Tue, 05/29/2012 - 00:47 | 2470827 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

No, certainly not offensive wars for Empire. Read below.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:14 | 2469132 Pizza man
Pizza man's picture

Thank you, Lew..could not have said it better myself.


We maybe off track in the middle east, but I WONDER what our participation there would look like if we didn't depend on our military to keep the place open for oil business? 


So how much is our ass backward energy policy costing us, really? Seems Tyler's offerring boils down to just that question, never mind the histrionics.  We wouldn't need to have an aggressive military footprint in the middle east if we were energy independant. The military was generally welcome there prior to the fist gulf war, to prove my point.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 10:43 | 2469193 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

gonna go out on a limb here and say it would have made more "business" sense, at this point in the oil story and waiting this long, if we were going to thow a trillion around in military, medical, false flags and propaganda while creating a never before seen level of hate from the rest of the world and paranoia in our own, to direct that money and effort toward building new energy, living and transportation systems at home letting those local jobs invest in local stuff and then selling, sharing and trading those systems all around. But then again, our leaders don't listen to common sense, practical economics or the common good do they?

good to know we had a say in the matter

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:25 | 2467955 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

You get +points for excellent use of projection.

Run away with the best of the delusionals.

Stupid as ever and somehow see right through the self proclaimed rocket surgeons, brain scientists bullshit almost as a routine at this point.


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:53 | 2468027 Zeilschip
Zeilschip's picture

You really are shit for brains aren't you?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:37 | 2468121 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Why can't you people just post you hate joos?

I don't get.

I hate intolerant, oppressive pissants and I don't care if they are joos, christians, muzzies, commies, liberals, conservatives or whoever the fuck it is.

I prize imagination, that is what moves the human race forward and makes my life better,

 and  I know that comes from freedom  and not oppression.

Why not just post you hate joos?  No fucking spine?



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:58 | 2467618 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Xkwisetly Paneful

I was thinking something along the same line.  I throw stuff down a rat hole with the purpose of killing the damn rats.  I'm not concerned about the color, age or gender of the rats.  Or even if the ones from the particular rat hole were the ones attacking my stores today.  All are rats.

One interview I read of Paul Tibbets, near the end of his life, was pretty interesting.  He was asked if he had and remorse about being the one who had dropped the atomic bomb, Little Boy, on the Japanese city of Hiroshima.

Studs Terkel: One last thing, when you hear people say, "Let's nuke 'em," "Let's nuke these people," what do you think?

Paul Tibbets: Oh, I wouldn't hesitate if I had the choice. I'd wipe 'em out. You're gonna kill innocent people at the same time, but we've never fought adamn war anywhere in the world where they didn't kill innocent people. If the newspapers would just cut out the shit: "You've killed so many civilians." That's their tough luck for being there.

“I’m proud that I was able to start with nothing, plan it and have it work as perfectly as it did… I sleep clearly every night.”

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 18:08 | 2467770 johny2
johny2's picture

Life is sacred, Paul Tibbets is a mass murderer, and I hope you realise  one day that life signifies more than eating, pissing, shitting and sleeping.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:47 | 2468145 Augustus
Augustus's picture

It is much more than having a regular bodily function. 

Having my life, or you having your life, involves dealing with those who would take it from me.  And possibly joining with someone who is having their life threatened.  The purpose is to rid ourselves of the rats.

There are populations who do not agree with your concept of what is sacred.  Rats, Imperialist Japanese, and Radical Islamists.  The concept that ALL life is Sacred is not in agreement with their belief system.

Sorry if I've offended your religion of goat sex, pedophilia, and head chopping.  Paul Tibbets saved hundreds of thousands of lives.


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:44 | 2468244 johny2
johny2's picture

First of all, I understand that there are people like you on all over the world, who look at other people as to the rats to be killed in any manner without any second thoughts. 


Secondly, I believe life is sacred not because of some religious doctrine, but out of respect for life itself which is amazing, even though it is very often brutal, bloody and downright cruel. 


And lastly, Paul Tibbet killed many thousands without discrimination, which makes him a mass murderer.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 23:29 | 2468415 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Paul Tibbets was a very brave man who lost it towards the end of his life.  While all the other crew members were becoming more remorseful by the day, Tibbets became more belligerent with every interview, sometimes even incoherently.  His family should not allowed him to be interviewed at that stage.  He had a monumentous mission, but I don't think he properly reflected on its consequences.  Even McNamara said that he and Curtis LeMay should have been charged with war crimes for what they did to the Japanese.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 00:21 | 2468492 johny2
johny2's picture

He killed about 90000 - 140000 people, including babies, children of all ages, woman, man, elderly. 

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 14:03 | 2469724 Augustus
Augustus's picture


First of all, you understand very little, if anything.

Secondly, the life of the creature which is attempting to extinguish mine is worth less than mine.  You, however, seem to have a need to be slapped daily to get your full joy from life. 

Paul Tibbets did not kill without discrimination.  It was limited to the population of the Imperialist Japanese island.  He was not a mass murderer.  He was the man who was able to bring an earlier ending to a war and prevented the deaths of hundreds of thousands of others.

Other comments about how his family should have shielded him are simply mistaken.  Both his mother and father were very proud of his actions.  Further, the President and the US Population considered him a hero of the generation.  Those people fully understood the consequences of war and of losing to conquering power such as Imperial Japan.  You don't. 

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 20:57 | 2470496 johny2
johny2's picture

I am too busy to waste time with fools like you. you better hope that one day your own family doesnt get wiped out like bunch of rats. I have been in war, as were my parents and grandparents before them, and I dont agree with killing of civilians, especially those that are not capable of defending themselves. It is a crime, and there is no excuse for it.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 22:57 | 2468357 prole
prole's picture

You are right about one thing: There are rats that threaten us (and take all our money BTW) but they are not Imperialist Japanese, nor are they Radical Islamists.

And since you don't seem to know whose side we are on anyway-- If you look at our track record from Serbia to Iraq to Syria, you can tell that we are the Radical Islamists, by the wreckage of Christian Corpses that we leave in our wake.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:22 | 2468092 Maghreb
Maghreb's picture

There is no sanitized war concept its a lie written to convince the public that war somehow changed and was more civilized than it used to be. The British used to talk about "Scientific Warfare" up until World War devestated Europe. That drone footage is jsut propoganda to remove the human element. Why do you think they show mass graves in Syria but not Iraq? There were days when hundreds of people were killed in baghdad.

Your anive if you think the U.S would turn Iraq into a massive sand box with nucleaur weapons. Why the hell would they do that? So the Iranians can just walk in a take over. They used as much violence as they need to acheive their goals.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:50 | 2468149 Augustus
Augustus's picture

It is not Iraq that would be the nuclear sandbox, it is Mullah controlled Iran that would be vaporized.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 21:10 | 2468192 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Good point.

No sanitized war concept. Smart missles, bombs whatever really haven't reduced collateral damage it's all a huge myth.

It's just that the 72 TD favorite decided to let the underdog hang in the game because if they didn't Iran would have just moved in.

It took how many years to move in to block Iran? Nice fantasy. 

Please and The Shia in Iraq weren't really Iran anyway, I read it here yesterday.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 15:25 | 2469935 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

@ Maghreb: of course wars are fought with propaganda. Sanitizing it for the modern audience is part of the public relations planning involved.

I don't think they'd use nukes on Iraq, because then it would be over too quickly. Not a lot of money to be made in a 20 minute war. But in a Cheney-esque "multi-generational" one requiring trillions in construction, reload, and supply contracts?

Now, onto the real business: What do you think the goals of the war planners really were? I've read all the PNAC and JINSA stuff, and I think they were quite clear about the media obfuscations they were willing to employ.

"WMD", "fighting terror", "Liberating Iraq" are all propaganda memes. What is the Empire really doing there?

Racking up profits for the MIC? certainly. Adding new garrisons for the Force-projection, Full-spectrum dominance crowd? done. Securing new licenses for oil fields and services? apparently. Doing Israel's dirty work? absolutely. There's something in Empire for everybody, it seems.

Yet, achieved or not, I fail to see how any of these goals are worthwhile to the average American taxpayer. Iraqi bombers weren't streaking over the Canadian tundra, Iraqi subs weren't surfacing off the Atlantic seaboard, and Iraqi tanks weren't massing across the Rio Grande. This was a war of choice; a bad one at that. And all the propaganda in the world can't change that.

And after all the bloodletting, propaganda, and waste, Iran did take over. Come home America, it's over. The Empire lost. Lose the Empire and you've won, America.



Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:42 | 2467509 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Yea and I just heard the US invented war.


Actually, US citizens invented total war. Not war itself. But made the meaningful contribution of total war.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:53 | 2467535 MarkS
MarkS's picture

Wrong Dumb Ass...but I guess that's what passes for the knowledge of history these days.  'Total War' as we describe it today really became attributed in 'scholarly' works  in the 19th century in a period of writing started by von Clauswitz with his amazing (and yet boring) treatise 'On War'.

One of the best examples that even a history dullard like you might understand was the Romans destroying and then salting Carthage so that nothing would ever grow there again.

The US didn't invent total war, if anything, the US should be blamed for the use of technology to try to sanitize war and therefore make it ever more aceptable as a way of advancing politics.





Sun, 05/27/2012 - 16:02 | 2467551 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Give him a break, he is Chinese and received a different brand of indoctrination, including different history books.

Even we Westerners have history books telling radically different stories. A wonderful introduction: "1000 years of annoying the French", a must-read and entertaining, too. ;-)

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:28 | 2467672 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

I'm quite sure the Chinos have heard of a Trojan horse.  The Trojans were good house guests though, only throwing the male babies from the city walls.


Sherman didn't create total warfare, he just revived it. 

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:56 | 2468038 Zeilschip
Zeilschip's picture

The Dutch invented Total Football, does that count for anything? Plus, we had a manager who said 'Football is war'. So one could argue the Dutch invented Total War?

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:26 | 2468104 MarkS
MarkS's picture

Good point...I thought for a second you were going to quote Sun Tzu and make the opposite of the Total War argument in defeating your enemy without ever havuing tio engage them...but, annoying the French is something all cultures can agree on.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:13 | 2468961 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Give him a break, he is Chinese and received a different brand of indoctrination, including different history books.



And there is another who might have be taught in a chinese school as he knows of total war and what it means.

Because that is the criterion right. When you address something as it is, when you cover total war for what it is, it is not possible you address it as it is because it is the way it is but because you belong to another group.

That is the result of US citizenism on the world.

In the end, as total war is defined, if indeed the Chinese are taught and know what it is, it means that their schools teach reality, not propaganda, not fantasy.

Something to ponder as US citizenism is going to prevail in China, meaning they will be taught the US citizen way.
And in doing so, well, they will surrender a school system that has at least taught total war as it is.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:02 | 2467625 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

By the way, there are American historians too attributing the invention of Total War to Gen. Sherman in the US Civil War. Debatable.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:22 | 2468086 MarkS
MarkS's picture

Really?  Could you name them?  I know there are some Wiki historians out there who might think so, but if you'll point to an American historian who has put in writing that Sherman invented Total War I'll work fastidiously at the next American Historical Society meeting to get his membership revoked and have him mocked mercilessly.


Not to say Sherman wasn't good at it, he was a brutally efficient practioner as Bedford Forrest, but he didn't invent it.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 23:00 | 2468361 prole
prole's picture

Great comparison Father Abraham, because I heard Bedford Forrest burned dozens of towns in the states he invaded while he was trying to conquer them.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:54 | 2468157 Augustus
Augustus's picture

I don't know when Total War was "invented" but suspect it was well before there was a United States.  And I'm not a great student of military history.  I can suggest though that there are examples of it being used by Alexander the Great and how he treated those who refused to surrender quickly.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:57 | 2467737 Matt
Matt's picture

Considering the entire enemy population to be valid targets is just one aspect of total war. The main feature is the use of 100% of the population and resources 100% of the time to fighting the war. I doubt the Romans conscripted their entire population.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 20:14 | 2468071 MarkS
MarkS's picture

Really, exactly where did you get that 'use of 100% of your population and resources 100% of the time to fighting the war' CRAP!?!?!?  There are a lot of stupid things posted on this board, but you Matt can ring the bell because you may have the new 'dumbest entry EVER'!!!  Put down the comic books and actually read something.


Let me just ask a few questions to clarify:

1.  Can you give a single historical example?  If you say Sparta I swear I'll slap you.

2.  Would these citizen warriors include the old and infirm, handicapped, pregnant women, children, etc.?  Yeah,they make great warriors, or maybe you were thinking meat shields.

3.  Exactly how would said country, politics, economy run?


I'm sorry I can't go on any further, it hurts to try to get down to your level of stupidity.


Mon, 05/28/2012 - 00:24 | 2468499 Matt
Matt's picture

The women and children and old people produce the food, clothes and war materials you ignoramus.

The French Revolution would be the first example:

Try reading a bit yourself. It is not a sustainable state of being; it is a state for winning a war. You cannot run a society that way in perpetuity. 

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 13:41 | 2469670 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

Can you give a single historical example

Britain WW2?

use of 100% of your population and resources 100% of the time to fighting the war

We mobilized everybody, melted down the pans, railings and even made planes out of wood, imposed rationing on our populations for food and materials.

Would these citizen warriors include the old and infirm, handicapped, pregnant women, children, etc.?

Ever heard of the Home Guard, any male over 16 found unfit for the forces was given a rifle and told to kill as many enemy paratrooper's as possible.

Exactly how would said country, politics, economy run?

Women went to work in the factories, we imposed rationing, basically we became a nation of economic socialists.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:06 | 2468945 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Considering the entire enemy population to be valid targets is just one aspect of total war. The main feature is the use of 100% of the population and resources 100% of the time to fighting the war. I doubt the Romans conscripted their entire population.

So you attended a chinese school to know about total war?

Or you might simply know what total war is.

Mon, 05/28/2012 - 09:17 | 2468975 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

One of the best examples that even a history dullard like you might understand was the Romans destroying and then salting Carthage so that nothing would ever grow there again.


Perfect correct. People in the past were dumb and did not know of history.

Indeed, one sure, riskless way to turn a right statement into a wrong is not discuss it but discuss all alternates.

Rome vs Carthage does not qualify as total war. But picturing it as if it was, well, it can illustrate indeed the false assertion that US citizens did not invent total war.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 15:48 | 2467525 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

You have LITERALLY NO IDEA what is really going on in Syria!

Youtube "Syrian Girl" and quit consuming mainstream propaganda-press.  The destablization of Syria is one of many chapters in the destablization/overthrow manual....and you would be surprised who is REALLY carrying out most of the death and destruction. 


Sun, 05/27/2012 - 17:49 | 2467623 Augustus
Augustus's picture

All of that propaganda for the purpose of trying to make people believe that wonderful man Assad is not really loved by the population.  Same tactics used to try to blemish the record of the Magic Negro.

Sun, 05/27/2012 - 19:34 | 2467978 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

My puppy for mullah,

where ya been babe?

We know anything but the most oppressive, intolerant people on the planet are responsible.

The funny thing is your belief that you people actually fool anyone anymore.

One day some courage may pop up, and all puppies for mullah will get on their hind legs and piss on a globe proudly, instead of pretending otherwise.


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