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Guest Post: When Governments Go Rogue

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Brandon Smith from Alt Market

When Governments Go Rogue

There are those today who would claim that the lifeblood of a nation is dependent upon the graces of its government.  That government is the focal point of cultural growth, and that we as citizens should respect it as such.  I would be more inclined to agree if the public did not so easily confuse the ideals of leadership with the actions of criminals.  That is to say, regardless of what we wish our government to be, bureaucracies rarely, if ever, embody the spirit of the common man (a necessity for any system that purports to defend the citizenry).  Instead, bureaucracies almost inevitably deteriorate into vehicles for the perpetuation of tyranny driven by the very worst of all stewards; elitist minorities with delusions of godhood.

Unfortunately, despite this fact, the masses often treat these industrious vermin and the plagues of society that they build with the same reverence as they would a sincere and honorable body politic.         

Government is not nor has it ever been a foregone conclusion.  Government is not concrete.  It is not tangible.  It is not the foundation of society.  Instead, government is an abstraction; a fantastic dream of collectivist paternity in the face of individual hardship.  Those who fear to wander the world on their own courage, strength, and merit, seek to elevate and empower “decision makers” to provide the comfort of limited liability.  Through this process, governments are created out of thin air.  All governmental authority is, thus, HANDED to those in positions of leadership.  What makes one man a “king” and another man a “peasant”?  Only the people of a country, and where they choose to place their personal control; in their own hands, or the hands of others.

To put it simply, there is no power over us but that which we give away, and no freedom lost, that cannot be regained.

Until this reality is understood, consecutive generations of human beings will be left to wonder astonished at the endless atrocities of governments they thought they could trust.  The truth is, no government, no matter how seemingly noble, deserves our full faith.  All governments must be treated like storehouses of aging dynamite; with extreme vigilance, care, and suspicion, because, it is in the very nature of centralized power to sink towards destabilization and disaster. 

The American dynamic was meant to be different.  For the first time in history, a group of people organized an administrative body which was predicated upon the will of the general populace and not the will of the incorporated elite.  The Constitution was the first legal document designed to LIMIT the power of government, not endlessly exonerate it.  Though many in our modern age have become completely ignorant of its original intent, the Constitution and its written protections allowed for the first decentralized government of the Western world, if not the entire world.  A government which was specifically tasked with shielding the rights of the individual beyond the desires of the mindless “majority”, or the normally influential aristocracy. 

Obviously, we have strayed far and away beyond the schematics set forth by the founding fathers.

Let us finally be honest with ourselves and say it out loud; our government is not Constitutional!  It has become a mutation.  A monstrosity.  A malformed creature given birth by the oozing genetic material of mad social scientists hell bent on dominating the building blocks of our political life.  It is a thing to be abhorred, not admired, and certainly not to be trusted.

The statement above may be confusing to those who have relegated their concerns to the immediate.  If one is free to walk about the streets, keep a job, have a drink, and settle in front of his television for hours on end, then what is there to be worried about?  If he is not directly affected by the ill notions of men in far off banks and capitols, then why care at all?  If the pain of government criminality only strikes people from “other” cultures, or other walks of life, why be concerned?  For those who actually suffer from this brand of idiocy, I can only relate the unwarranted role that our government has assumed within our society and hope that they begin to realize how extraordinarily unsafe they really are.  The injustices visited upon the few are invariably visited upon the many in time, especially where a rogue government resides.

The kind of intrusion by government allowed by the American people today is utterly astounding.  Bank records, medical records, political viewpoints, phone conversations, emails, child rearing practices, food eating habits, health pursuits, social networking habits, biometric data, travel; nothing is safe from the prying eyes of government anymore. 

At what point did we as a nation decide that the government’s opinion of the domestic ideal should become the precedent?  At what point did we decide that a faceless bureaucracy knows better than we do what is best for us?  When did our lives become an open book to be read at the government’s leisure?

I say “we decided”, because we must bear a large part of the blame.  From the institution of the Patriot Acts, to the utilization of the FISA domestic spying bill, to the latest monitoring and cataloging by the DHS and the Federal Reserve of private internet activity, we have stood by and done little to nothing in response. 

The argument put forth by establishment proponents has always been that the government’s task is to keep us safe.  In order to do this, they say, there can be nowhere for “evil doers” to hide.  Therefore, the privacy of every individual must be sacrificed for the greater good of the greater number.  This argument is unabashed nonsense.

Governments do not keep people safe.  Governments are historically predisposed to ending far more lives than they protect, especially when they have strayed from their original mandates.  When a government goes rogue, or has been honed as a tool for control rather than defense, its directives lean towards self preservation, not the preservation of the public.  That is to say, the government and those who directly benefit from its manipulation set policies that ensure their own safety, and no one else’s. 

Without a doubt, all the anti-4th Amendment legislation that has been passed over the course of last decade is focused not on some sinister force, foreign or domestic.  Instead, it has been focused on average American citizens, because, whether we want to admit it or not, the government sees US as their greatest enemy. 

There was a time when even I would have considered this view as a bit “extreme”.  However, I would now have to point out the introduction of bills and executive orders like the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, which essentially erases Posse Comitatus and allows for Martial Law to be instituted with extreme prejudice under executive authority:

As well as the attempted passage of the Enemy Belligerents Act, which would allow for the capture, torture, and indefinite incarceration of American citizens as “enemy combatants:

Not to mention the National Emergency Centers Act which allows for the detention of civilians in military and FEMA run facilities:

Or the Obama Administration’s continuance of Bush doctrine which allows for the assassination of U.S. citizens designated as “enemy combatants”:

And most recently, the National Defense Authorization Act, a defense spending action which is being used to coattail legislation which decimates all Constitutional checks and balances and leaves the door open for the government to declare any region they wish a “combat zone”.  These provisions are just a rewritten combination of the Enemy Belligerents Act (both bills were fostered by the hand of John McCain) and the John Warner Defense Authorization Act, giving government free reign to designate any person, even an American citizen, as an enemy combatant.  This means that anyone, including you, could one day be detained without Habeas Corpus, without fair trial, without due process, without legal representation, forever.  Period. 

You think rendition only occurs in Middle Eastern hellholes?  Think again.  With these bills and others like them, the American public is now fair game.

Rationalizations for the above actions abound.  Some of the most common naïve positions include the following:

1)  Assassinations Against Al Qaeda Agents, Even If They Are American Citizens, Is Justifiable

The nature of the target is irrelevant to the principle underlying the situation.  I don’t care if Anwar al-Awlaki was an agent of Hades, the conscience of a country must take precedence over the short term threats that country faces.  If a society is unable to maintain its conscience and its principles in the face of hardship, then perhaps that society is not worthy of survival.  There are, indeed, many more important things than national security.

This is how all tyranny begins; with a small group or element of a culture singled out for the loss of human rights, while the rest of the people look on and cheer.  Eventually, the exception to the rule becomes the rule, and everyone suffers.  Under no circumstances should our government be allowed to rewrite Constitutional protections or our moral compass, even if it means giving so called “terrorists” fair treatment under the law.  Never forget, the term “terrorist” is as arbitrary as any nowadays, and could be used against you as easily as it could be used against anyone else. 

2)  The Domestic Realm Is A Haven For “Homegrown Terrorists”

Again, “homegrown terrorism” is a highly arbitrary label.  If one looks at statements and white papers coming from the Department Of Homeland Security, or the Department Of Justice, anyone from Constitutionalists, to Ron Paul supporters, to militia members, to barter networkers and sound money proponents, or anyone who even expresses an interest in any of these subjects, is considered a potential domestic terrorist threat. 

Where is this headed?  Think about it.  If these types of people are already being categorized as extremists, what’s to stop the government form categorizing them as enemy combatants?

3)  Rendition And Torture Could Save Lives

Okay.  Let’s say for the sake of argument that rendition and torture actually could save some lives, though I have never heard of any of these Jack Bauer moments taking place in the real world.  Let’s say my life and those I love could be spared.  Frankly, I would rather die than be a party to behavior as reprehensible as kidnapping and torture.  I couldn’t care less about the theoretical benefits of the activity.  As stated earlier, a nation hanging by the poisonous framework of moral relativism is doomed to failure and decay.  Despite the propaganda often spread by elitist elements without our government, our military, and our local law enforcement, you DO NOT need to become the monster in order to defeat the monster.  This lie should not be allowed to stand…

4)  You Are “Overreacting” To The Legislation, And Americans Will Not Be Targeted

Senator Lindsay Graham, a backer of the National Defense Authorization Act, specifically outlined the bill’s jurisdiction over American citizens and even admitted it makes the U.S. itself a “combat zone” under the international laws of war (while at the same time presenting the lie that Federal due process would somehow be enforced for those who are captured).  We who oppose the bill could do a lot more without being rightfully accused of “overreaction”.  If Americans are not to be targeted, then why create the bill in the first place?  Traditional laws of war would be more than sufficient to handle foreign threats, and domestic response agencies like the FBI could easily continue doing whatever it is they supposedly do to safeguard our country.  The ONLY reason to introduce a bill which frees the U.S. Government and the DHS to act militarily within the borders of our own nation would be to target U.S. citizens, and to undermine normal Constitutional processes.

The legislation is self-incriminating.  Only a complete dullard would argue otherwise.

5)  The Government Is A Body Elected By The People, Therefore They Are One And The Same

The only practical explanation I can think of for someone to actually believe this argument is overmedication.  Despite what we’re all taught in middle school, our government as it exists today and has for many decades does not represent the will of the people.  Two dominant political parties with cosmetic differences in rhetoric but nearly identical legislative platforms and voting records is not an expression of a legitimately free republic.  The system revolves around corporate ideologies of globalization, not elections.  Its beneficiaries are a limited and powerful fringe of society, not the masses.  It is a rigged game.  A fake battle between two gladiators owned by the same Caesar.  To say that the people and the government are one-in-the-same is a gross error in judgment.

After researching and acknowledging the course our government has taken, the question then arises; what is the ultimate end result?  Barring multiple miracles of a complete economic turnaround, full third party inclusion in our political structure, the deconstruction of the Federal Reserve, the decentralization of financial influence, the reintroduction of Constitutional insulation degraded since 2001, and the complete pullback of troops involved in ongoing wars in the Middle East, there can be only one outcome:  total conflict.

We did not create this division.  The American people did not ask to be targeted.  Though we certainly have not done enough to fend off the numerous attacks upon our general liberties, the root of the problem still lay within the core of our government, the puppet leaders who abuse it, and the corporate elitists who use it as a staging ground for personal agendas.  We have become two separate groups that cannot and will not be reconciled.  The government is openly admitting this through legislation like the National Defense Authorization Act.  Its time we did the same. 

When two forces diametrically opposed exist upon the same ground at the same time with the same force of will, war erupts.  A war of philosophies, a war of dissent, and sometimes, a war of weapons.  As unsettling as that might sound, we must take solace in the fact that we at least fight for what is honest.  If every American must conform to the twisted path our government has chosen, or be branded an ‘enemy combatant”, then may we all become domestic threats in our own backyard.


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Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:33 | 1937423 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

People adore Snookie so it makes perfect sense that they'd also like Schumer, Pelosi, Frank, et al.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:55 | 1937465 trav7777
trav7777's picture

i know a little bit about the government and let me just assuage some of your fears:  the USG is so packed with human shit, that I'm not sure they're much of a threat to do anything but clumsily bomb people.

the gov goes out of its way to hire the weirdest motherfuckers around, diversity, retards, some seriously corked up people, like the type who couldn't get a job anywhere else, then it promotes them.  Sooner or later, collapse of everything is inevitable.

It'll happen before things get too bad, IMO.  It's already creaking under its own weight.  Just take away the power of the purse and shit is OVER.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:14 | 1937489 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Yeah it is the same way with the post office. Most people have noticed more missing and mixed up mail in the last few years has dramatically increased.

We are slowly being turned into a third world with a suffocating, expensice bureaucracy. Pretty soon bribery and tax evasion will be the norm here just like in other backwards shitholes where no business can be accomolished through legal means, and only the most cynical and corrupt thrive.

We can live with the bottom third feeling alienated which is inevitable in a dynamic free society. We cant survive as a society when ninety percent lose faith and quit caring which is what happens in socialist-bureaucratic nations.

Trying to regulate all the ills of freedom by excessively regulating to level the playing field ends up harming even more people and introduces universal cynicism and malaise. Everyone goes Galt at the margin even if they dont know what going galt means.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:00 | 1937536 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Speaking of the post office, in my town of 90,000+, the kids here go to the post office and take all their express mail and priority mail forms and use the package stickers included with the duplicate form to write their stupid pseudonyms on them and stick them all over our street signs, traffic signal poles, signal boxes, telephone equipment boxes, store windows, etc., etc.  I recently brought this to the attention of our local postmaster and he told me that D.C. hdqtrs won't allow him to put them behind the counter.  They want the customers to have easy access for branding reasons.  I wasn't sure what that meant.  He then told me that UPS informed him that some of their customers were using USPS express mail boxes turned inside out so they could ship with UPS instead.  I have scraped off more than 150 of these express mail stickers from public property thus far.  If the kids are doing this in my town, it has got to be happening all over this country.  Its no wonder they are going bankrupt.  Take a look at the street signs in your community,  if you see something stuck on there, well...

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:08 | 1937557 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



You actually spend time scraping off postal stickers from telephone poles and stuff?  150 of them? 

And then you took the time to talk to the postal supervisor about it?


Not to be rude, but you sorta remind me of a grumpy old dude who chases skateboarding kids around and angrily calls them "whippersnappers."  If I was a kid in your town, I'd cover your house with postal stickers, and then talk to the postmaster about mailing your house to France.  

Right-wing conservatives are so WEIRD!

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:13 | 1937567 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

I do it because I am the elected Alderman in my ward, and yes, you hit the nail on the head. I showed our police dept. gang unit officer some of these stickers and he told me that they most likely came from skateboarding kids or tagging crews.  The gangs prefer spray painting their symbols on private property.

Thank you for your reply, Mr Fischer,  CL17 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:33 | 1937578 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture






Conservatives are so funny!!!!!!!  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi

Next time, notify NORAD. 


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:48 | 1937594 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

OK whitebread, you are obviously insulated from the problems faced by those of us who live in mid sized urban areas that have, over the years, experienced major demographic changes in the population.  Living in the state of Illinois presents unique challenges to civil order because of many years of elected lawyers who craft our laws for their own benefit. Today, my state is teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, and all property owners are on the hook for past misdeeds.  It is extremely difficult to manage a municipality in an environment where the work force is 90% unionized and their benefits are protected by our state constitution.  Our median household income is 46,500.  City employees average pay is 70,000.  Civis Mundi,  where is the fairness there?  Have you ever experienced a drive by shooting across the street from your residence?  Or a block away? Or a drug dealer that lives in your neighborhood?  Or a rash of daytime breaking and entering in your neighborhood?  I thought so.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:53 | 1937601 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture


90% unionized?  Are you in Decatur?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:58 | 1937605 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:56 | 1937603 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

And with all those problems you are going around scraping USPS stickers?  I think you have lost it,,,

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:09 | 1937614 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Please tell me where you live, and I will come visit your community and deface all your public and private property.  As you drive around your once pristine community and view my vandalism, what say you.  I am figuring that you will remain anonymous within your comfortable abode and demand that your council member do something about this. That is my problem,  the community sees nothing and knows nothing, just like you and civis mundi.  If you two are males, you should be ashamed of yourselves.  If you two have wives or girlfriends, I feel sorry for them.  No, I fear for their safety. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 06:11 | 1937718 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Hey You Kids!!! Get off my lawn!!

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:21 | 1938206 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

"Please tell me where you live, and I will come visit your community and deface all your public and private property. "

CL17 - I followed your point of view until you capitchulated and became the thing you abhor in response to simple questioning by someone with a different POV.

This little example is a great comentary on human naure and a pefect example of the main point of the article.  Government will tend naturally towards pursuit of more power and grow to become the antithesis of its original intent.  


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:22 | 1937626 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I wouldn't want to live next to some guy who goes around and scrapes stickers off of stuff with his free time.  Guy's nuts. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:41 | 1937644 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

The taxpayers in my ward pay me 22,000 a year plus benefits for a full time job. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:29 | 1937797 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Just to understand, being an alderman is a full time job that pays $22K/year? Or you are paid $22K/year to be an alderman and you turn it into a full time job by scraping stickers?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 18:24 | 1940158 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

For most, it's a part time job.  I do it full time because I am no longer employed in the private sector.  The stickers are just something I noticed and decided to care of the problem myself.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:02 | 1938696 prole
prole's picture

Sweet. I salute you for having a job.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:20 | 1937623 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

instead of knocking the $70k crew, why not find out why the $46k crew is stagnant.  It seems this arguement always wants to bring down instead of raise the common avg.  Punish the globalization gang that want you to race to match the wages of rice farmers in china - with trillions being thrown around willy nilly you would think $70k should be minimum wage by now

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:26 | 1937629 Michael
Michael's picture

Too bad the Enron debacle didn't happen in todays environment. Enron and Arther Anderson would have both been saved.


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:32 | 1937635 Michael
Michael's picture

Let's just call it what it really is;

Sector Warfare!

Private sector Vs Public sector.

Got it?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:57 | 1937658 Michael
Michael's picture

With all the current distractions, nobody is noticing this really big story. Pardon me for posting;

Paper: 'A climate of fraud. New emails shed light on the global warming racket' -- 'Global warming is more fiction than science'

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:15 | 1937678 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Mike, your thread-jackin has gone beyond embarrassing. I can't imagine how many viewers start to just drift past your posts like spam in an inbox no matter how good they may or may not be.

A few crazy uncles in attics perhaps rivaled Tesla in their theories but were shut out from any worthy discourse by their improperness  


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:45 | 1937685 Michael
Michael's picture

I've been called a legend and other nice things by nice people on this blog for my contributions, even for my incessant input into this blog day and night in the past, generally good feelings. I could add 3 pages to a thread here with just one sentence. You haven't seen this thread jacking master in true form in a while. Take a look at the reruns. Trust me, you don't want to see that again. Not so much these days as I generally like to use ZH for personal musings late into the evening when I'm not bothering too many people. Sometimes my musings appear in headlines and in news articles from time to time. Very flattering.

That being said;

Go fuck yourself.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:45 | 1937701 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

and continue to stay full of yourself

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 06:24 | 1937725 Michael
Michael's picture
One of my major accomplishments. I bet there were no more than 100,000 other people in this country working on this thing with me. The Corbett Report Interview 419 – Marc Morano

Marc Morano should be Ron Paul's Science Tzar.



Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:47 | 1937824 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

A legend?  Wow.  Who'd a thunk it?  May I dust your pedestal for you?

Sat, 12/03/2011 - 19:04 | 1942464 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

dont worry, all his alt accounts he uses to vote and praise himself can help him out

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 09:38 | 1937982 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Crazy or not he is absolutely right.  Post something other than an ad hom, it may be a bit of a jack but takes no time to peruse or ignore so save yourself the effort of saving me, please..

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:16 | 1937680 Michael
Michael's picture

Thank the creator for the extended solar minimum, for without it we would not have won.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:31 | 1938265 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

'Sector warfare' is SPOT ON!

I saw this quote associated with Kyle Bass although I do not know if he is the origin: 

"In financial crises, events can move from impossible to inevitable without ever passing through improbable."

I am convinced we can now remove the qualifier to that sentence.

When in the world did we have the split second to identify the problem with the devolving role of our govt and have the chance to reverse it?  Is it possible now?  Perhaps... perhaps not. 

While we try, I'm acting as if my family and I are islands in the world and taking appropriate steps (PM, food, defense - I'm sure that just go me on to the Dept of Homeland Defense list as a teror!$t)

For those of you doing the same - I've noticed the tendency to take on a sour mood along with this preparation.  I'm convinced that the MOST IMPORTANT activity is keeping a positive point of view.


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:39 | 1937642 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

That sounds very nice,dpos,  but why don't you tell me exactly how you would ordain the fair wage that you speak of?  Try to stay within the limits of municipal, county, and state law.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:57 | 1937660 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

if you are looking for a simple solution, you won't find it.  The simple demise was the conversion of the american dream to the american coma.  To awaken them you would need to show money flow like water and rain so they can see that their local communities are like dustbowls with no wealth at all.  In the past, the locals would circulate their wealth and many would grow it as well. Now with globalization the wealth is in vast unseen basins and the trickle that flows briefly through the communities is like an IV for life support.   That is the path you are preaching instead of waking up the body and getting it to stand on its own feet again.


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:15 | 1937674 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Thank you dpos,  As a local official I have no power over the macro economy.  My focus is adjusting to our micro situation.  All municipal employees have to understand this fact.  I am just trying to maintain some equality between our high paid civil servants and our low paid taxpayers. I read zerohedge religiously and e-mail their articles to my colleagues so they understand what is coming down the road.  Unfortunately,  I am beginning to think that our finance director is the only person within the city employ that knows what is coming.  My elected colleagues all seem to believe that the sunshine will return soon.  We live in the state of Illinois, for crying out loud.  I don't know what else I can do to wake up my colleagues.  So, I just do what I can to make my ward as liveable as possible.  Without the luxury of a conceal/carry permit.  I would like to see how some of the members who poked me would respond to the problems I am asked to mediate on a daily basis.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:35 | 1937692 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

take pictures of the walls of the abyss as you fall..  you might earn a Pulitzer or Peabody and dig yourself out

that's what happens when the large companies control all the wealth. There aren't enough people with wealth that give a damn about municpal services anymore. So they will die off, all of it. When the wealth was shared more, at least those people obtained some level of benefit from their taxes paying for the local government. With a small % holding onto the wealth, and perhaps hardly any of them living 1000 miles from your town, why would they care if all the wages drop and subsequently the tax base and thus the services?


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:19 | 1937749 pazmaker
pazmaker's picture

Sometimes you just have to realize that it is time to abandon a sinking ship and move on.....   to a more freedom friendly state and let the pigs wallow in their own feces.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:05 | 1938710 prole
prole's picture

Newsflash: The 46K crew is stagnant because the 70K(+A) crew's job is stealing increasingly more and more of the 46K crew's shrinking piece of the pie.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:41 | 1937597 i-dog
Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:49 | 1937600 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

My computer couldn't open your link i-dog. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:14 | 1937617 i-dog
i-dog's picture

It wasn't directed at you, but at the troll you were engaging. It seems to have worked on him, so far....

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:11 | 1938739 prole
prole's picture

ZH humor.....catches you when you least expect it lol........

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:26 | 1937750 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Fuck off dude.  Pound sand up your ass.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:27 | 1937752 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Message to MF.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:21 | 1938214 fuu
fuu's picture

The facade is lifted and you return to form. Just can't help yourself can you?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:29 | 1937633 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

I don't think you needed to use the word off in your first sentence.  I can't quote the grammar rule, just a feeling from one with only a high school education, but I could call my sister(she's an english major) and ask her for you civis. I personally feel, it's just a hunch, that the action of scraping from implies total removal.  But then again, who am I to question your authority? 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:13 | 1937616 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:16 | 1937619 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

I don't understand why I would get any junks for my first  comment.  OWS?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:24 | 1937627 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I have to ask: are you trying to be a troll, or are you just like this normally?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:33 | 1937637 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Did you read my first comment?  I didn't start the trolling here.  Please fill me in.  What was so offensive, or stupid, to anyone regarding my first post?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:14 | 1937734 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Dude, I thought you were a troll, too, in weeks/months past. It was only after going back over some of your previous posts a few days ago, while contemplating a snarky reply, that I realised that you are [or appear to be] a well-meaning, but very naive, individual who is not well-suited to the rough and tumble of the Fight Club.

Some people here will post the most obscene insults just because they can hide behind their anonymity (like graffiti taggers, they just like seeing their tag in public and having their friends see it too ... it's their only small chance of being 'recognised' in their shitty, usually child-abused, lives). Others, like Civis Mundi, are paid to smear shit on the walls here. Just sayin'.........

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:52 | 1939221 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

I wish anytime before anyone posted a comment, they would have to answer a question from the article they are commenting on.  I swear people come on here to see how many points they can get from posting "bitchez," or "biatch."  A good question like, "What bill does the article indicate will essentially erase Posse Comitatus," would cut the trolling and mindless comments down greatly.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:08 | 1937780 newstreet
newstreet's picture

Nice to see someone with a sense of civic responsibility.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:30 | 1938259 SheepHerder
SheepHerder's picture

Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil in its worst state an intolerable one; for when we suffer, or are exposed to the same miseries by a government, which we might expect in a country without government, our calamities is heightened by reflecting that we furnish the means by which we suffer! Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built on the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform, and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.

Thomas Paine "Common Sense"

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:22 | 1938759 prole
prole's picture

To channel TP into the modern lingo: We pay a class of people whose job it is, to steal from us. It's one thing that their are thieves, and they must be tolerated and dealt with, it's another thing that we hire, and pay a class of people specifically to plunder us in perpetuity.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:42 | 1937532 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Finally understand - you work for them!

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:45 | 1937599 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Nice shot! lol

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:30 | 1937753 Janestool
Janestool's picture

there is some merit to what your saying....but the original affirmitive action system was the "old boys" network and it is still alive and well in government, business, and education.....that fills the system with lots of average or not so average people.....leadership in this country is still boomer and the demise of the country cannot be placed on affirmitive action programs......or are you such a monocultural oriented person that you cannot function in a multicultural setting....and I seen the fraternity system at work in the management structure....just another form of affirmitive action......bunch of idiots waiting for the next &@%@%%$@%$!!!!!

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:59 | 1937776 Baptiste Say
Baptiste Say's picture

"leadership in this country is still boomerand anlgo-saxon....."

There is a black president, jewish Fed chief, jewish financial regulators, and a buch of jewish elitist fjewish dominated media not to mention elitist foreign policy advisors like Kissinger and Breszinski all backed up by NWO leader Rockefeller and his Rothschild bosses.

I do not hate Jews (only the war criminaks and crony scum like the above mentioned) but the fact is these are the ones in cjarge so don't blame Anglo-Saxons please. Just blame the individuals messing things up and you won't look like such an idiot/bigot.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:16 | 1938186 Janestool
Janestool's picture

wasn't blaming anglo-saxons.....not blaming any single ethnicity.....the point I was trying to make is that no one ethnic group can be blamed....but all those leaders you mentioned are highly westernized individuals not sure how black or jewish they are....look like an idiot....if what I said makes me look like an glad to wear the badge....the idea that we can shift blame on our problems due to a single ethnicity is ridiculous.....and affirmitive action comes in all forms, legal and informal.....and benefits and discriminates against all.....

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:34 | 1938274 Janestool
Janestool's picture

who do you think put the president and those regulators into power......the demographics in this country have not changed that much......and we been in bed with England for pretty much the entire 20th and 21st Centuries.....or at least when it counts......I think maybe more people mourned the death of Princes Diana in the states than maybe they did England...admittadly this last statement maybe a bit of a stretch.....MR. FANON


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:41 | 1937810 4horse
4horse's picture



irascible savants, as it turns out, Pretenders, have very much in common with such government and its deadenders as you all too routinely merely curse and complain about: despite anathema and/or ovation, which they play to, outside of legend and their very own ideation   .   .  .   they barely exist

so, twisted-and/or sob-sister, about as curmudgeonly and avuncular as the family's own pseudo-insane dotty old aunt, and as about as informed/informative, trying gaining on a cosmetic reputation by at least writing/reading something finally worth fucking reading/writing about

besides the obvious

which even like this reputedly smart guy and even at this late date is at last likewise sick of denying, however useless he proves in this long waiting, ala fritz hollings, to feel safe enough stating the obvious:

Paul Brodsky. . .had some candid and rather scary comments about where the world is today: This is drawing back the curtain to reveal exactly who is sovereign – the global banking system. There is no German banking system or Euro banking system or American banking system. When we strip out community and regional domestic banks around the world and consider the world’s largest 30 bank holding companies, then we must recognize there’s a global lending organism holding sovereign sway over G7 governments and populations. 

They (large banks) are the creditors; we the people and our governments are the debtors. The sinews connecting economies are the currencies in which these debts are denominated. This is why regardless of its domestic balance sheet, exporting strength and balance of trade, Germany is now learning it is ultimately a debtor. It owes, through its ties to outright debtor nations like Greece and Italy, the global banking system. 

A couple years ago I thought the decision would come down to whether Angela Merkel would choose to save Deutschebank and other German banks with PIIG exposure, or whether she would side with the German taxpayer. I think what has become obvious very recently is that the decision is not hers to make.

The largest banks do not belong to sovereign economies with which they’re usually associated. (After all, DB’s US subsidiary – it’s called Taunus – is the eighth largest US bank by assets.) In fact, it should be pretty obvious to all observers by now that there really are no sovereign nations when these nations don’t have their own currencies  .  .  .

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:43 | 1938287 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

What a paradigm to wrap your head around!!  Thank you, 4horse.

Brodsky is brilliant - listen to his interview on Chris Martenson's site (link below).  Very enlightening.

My question is: if the governing system is a global banking "junta," how is it that certain major banks are allowed to go belly-up?  Are thse sacrificial lambs?  Are they necessary casualties to obscure the message that Brodsky outlines?   What?


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 13:28 | 1955334 4horse
4horse's picture

thank you AK . . . though will not be referring to you as BS having had a peep at such hole cards

xcuse delayed response: not used to checking back on posts, here as near-everywhere longgone and forgotten an hour later . . . you too perhaps to miss this belated appreciation: however, and as since posted elsewhere__

said stroke, of state, never anything like luck - - - - - hardly a junta when already dealt hundreds of yrs ago


no need for burke's gesunkeines kulturgut ever since: if you wanna know WHAT'S UP

neither british nor dutch east indies, Theirs
revenuestream: taxation. intolerable acts
but, otherwise, like what's a colony for . . .
                  but fucking
india.australia.canada.british east &/or
south africa. gold. diamonds. jewels, Theirs
spoils of the-english-speaking world, Theirs
the spanish main, their own eldorado
The Golden Caribbean, first&ever since
sugarcane. slavery. molasses. rrrum, Theirs
of cotton.tabacco.textiles.gin.machinery
along with whatever-floats-their-boats.
             The Triangle Trade
shirts, skirts and clothes. all slaves, Theirs
of their fashion:Branding:cottonpickin
stitching of nycityslickers to levi's
it pays to advertise, coffee,tea or media
from high-finance to fashiontrends, Theirs
tradewinds. sailing to shipping to cargo
noteholders. Insurance. lloyds of london
banking. banking. banking, the first and
              Only Investment
money, money, money. whether that once
old, slow, boat to Opium, or now again
NWO: W v E :no-Tempest-in-a-Teapot
taking a slowboat to China. China. China
as wilbur once said. not that mr.ed
U.macation, which they got all the very
best $ can buy-- INTEL --so no alibi
sez 4horse, when, after digging, and
                                 digging, and
                                 digging, they've
dug a hole so goddamn deep
they ain't nobody comin out the other side of


                                                                                                                     LOOK DOWN



for what micks,spicks,niggers&chinks
is being grounddown under BANKING. THEIRS



Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:34 | 1937426 non_anon
non_anon's picture

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Thomas Jefferson

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:31 | 1937587 ... crumbs
... crumbs's picture

they have to get their house in order before they attack Iran


.... but can they run and chew gum at the same time ?? Central bank action: a shot in the arm, not a long term cure

West's six most powerful central banks vow to flood world financial system with cheap money

    •, Wednesday 30 November 2011 20.21 GMT
    • Article history
      About this article

      Close Central bank action: a shot in the arm, not a long term cure

      This article was published on at 20.21 GMT on Wednesday 30 November 2011. A version appeared on p28 of the Main section section of the Guardian on Thursday 1 December 2011. It was last modified at 00.07 GMT on Thursday 1 December 2011.

    • The west's six most powerful central banks have vowed to flood world financial system with cheap money to ease global finances amid the eurozone crisis. Photograph: Daniel Roland/AFP/Getty Images

      It's amazing what a shot of the debt drug will do to the financial markets. Stock markets soared and commodity prices rebounded in response to the pledge by the west's six most powerful central banks to flood the financial system with cheap money. There was widespread relief that decisive action was being taken to arrest what was starting to look very much like a rerun of the financial crisis of 2008.

      Put simply, Wall Street had become so nervous about the state of the eurozone it had started to pull money out of European banks, with French institutions particularly vulnerable.

      For several months the Bank of England has been growing increasingly worried about the threat of a credit crunch, but conditions have become markedly worse in recent days.

      The trigger for the joint intervention appears to have been when yields on one-year German debt went negative on Wednesday morning. What that told the central bankers was that commercial banks were prepared to pay the German government to look after their money rather than take the risk of lending it to European institutions they fear could go bust at any moment.

      Faced with the prospect of an imminent banking collapse, the central banks decided there was no point waiting for Europe's dithering politicians to sort out the mess and so stepped in themselves.

      The emergency nature of the action suggests it will be a short-term solution to Europe's woes rather than a long-term cure. It looks like a shot of adrenalin to a seriously ill patient; enough to get the heart pumping again but not nearly enough to get them back on their feet.

      A month after the Cannes summit, Brussels appears no nearer to coming up with a bailout mechanism that is big enough – and hence credible enough – to bring down bond yields to a level that will ease fears of a break-up in monetary union.

      Nor is the commitment by central banks risk-free. The US Federal Reserve, in particular, is making money more freely available to European banks at a time when the risk of funding them is increasing. Central banks, and by extension the taxpayers that stand behind them, would face big losses were the doomsday scenario to become a reality.

      But, in the circumstances, the Fed probably thought that the bigger risk was of an immediate collapse in European banks, with knock-on effects on the US economy.

      But let's be clear: Wednesday was all about firefighting, as it was in the autumn of 2008 when central banks announced co-ordinated cuts in interest rates, but failed to prevent the global economy plunging into its biggest slump since the 1930s.




Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:41 | 1937596 ... crumbs
... crumbs's picture UK closes Iranian embassy in London   2011-12-01 14:09:17 FeedbackRSS

BEIJING, Dec. 1 (Xinhuanet) -- Britain has ordered the immediate closure of the Iranian embassy in London, giving Iranian diplomats 48 hours to leave the country. Meanwhile, London has moved to withdraw its entire diplomatic staff from Tehran. The moves came a day after hundreds of protesters in Tehran stormed the British embassy.

Shut down the Iranian embassy in London and expel all its staff.

This is the latest response from Britain against its embassy being attacked in Tehran on Tuesday.

British Foreign Secretary William Hague said: "The Iranian charge in London is being informed now that we require the immediate closure of the Iranian embassy in London and that all Iranian diplomatic staff must leave the United Kingdom within the next 48 hours. If any country makes it impossible for us to operate on their soil, they cannot expect to have a functioning embassy here."

However, Hague stressed that this does not amount to the severing of diplomatic relations in their entirety. He said it is action that reduces Britain’s relations with Iran to the lowest level consistent with the maintenance of diplomatic relations.

Meanwhile, Iran's Parliament Speaker addressed his assembly to explain the reasons behind the protesters' anger.

Iran Parliament Speaker Ali Larijani said: "This anger was the outpouring of several decades of exploitative actions by England in Iran. Part of it dates back to the early periods of the constitutional revolution and part of it was because of their role in strengthening the Pahlavid dynasty. After the revolution which caused England to lose its influence, they continued their animosity with the Iranian nation."

While Iran expressed its regrets over the incident, the British Foreign Secretary insisted the idea that the assault could have taken place without some degree of regime consent is fanciful.

On Tuesday, hard-line protesters in Tehran hauled down British flags, set fire to an embassy vehicle and pelted buildings with petrol bombs. Another group broke into a British diplomatic residential compound in north Tehran. The attacks followed the latest Western sanctions to punish Iran for defiance over its nuclear program.


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:35 | 1937428 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." - Mill

Do enough Americans feel this way? Or, is suckling at the teat of the government more important? Are you still paying your taxes like a good little slave while Benny and Barry can print up all the money they need?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:39 | 1937631 Incubus
Incubus's picture

if people didn't bother to fight over stupid shit, there wouldn't need to be millions of dead because of war.

Don't justify war unless you're willing to put your ass on the line for what the hell you preach. 


I'd like to believe that sufficiently intelligent people do not come to violence. The problem is that ignorant people covet power and this is always the problem of any social system.  Dysfunction IS THE NORM FOR ALL SOCIAL SYSTEMS.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 09:56 | 1938093 CH1
CH1's picture

Fighting is normal for states, not so much for individuals. Run the numbers.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:36 | 1937429 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

WSJ: Americans Embrace SUVs Again: After being largely shunned during the recession, high-riding SUVs and workhorse p...

After 40 years of oil shocks, nothing changes. The more we drill the faster we burn it. Then back to square one, with higher stakes, less production, more imports and dependance. The vested interests are delighted with this situation, but you know where it's all leading. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:39 | 1937434 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

"The Government Is A Body Elected By The People, Therefore They Are One And The Same"

The best and worst a population has to offer are represented in the government in the same percentages that exist in the population.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:43 | 1937446 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Is posting on this site part of your social media election campaign?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:53 | 1937462 Barack Obama
Barack Obama's picture

If it worked before, it will work again. Grassroots campaigning at its finest.

Do you have any idea how many tax dollars are spent just to earn one dollar in private campaign contributions?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:12 | 1937486 Hansel
Hansel's picture

No, I was always more interested in what bark was made of, like on a tree.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:51 | 1937460 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

sounds like a constitutional law professor.  not to mention astute demographic statistician.


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:16 | 1937493 au_bayitch
au_bayitch's picture

Barack, just remember that you were the diversity hire but the U.S. now needs adult management and your services will no longer be needed.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:36 | 1937695 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

"The best and worst a population has to offer are represented in the government in the same percentages that exist in the population."


Unless the government has been hijacked via a military-industrial/bankers' coup-d'etat.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:42 | 1937445 merchantratereview
merchantratereview's picture

That we were headed to tyranny was clear form the beginning.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:11 | 1937482 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Democracy in America by Alexis De Toqueville should be read by all Americans.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:56 | 1937604 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Most can't read. Can you arrange a Simpsons episode on it? Or fit it into an ad break on Monday night football (preferably showing some beer and tits to keep their attention on the screen)?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 06:14 | 1937720 yabyum
yabyum's picture

South park is more my line.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 11:14 | 1938457 Janestool
Janestool's picture

uh...interest groups....finished

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:46 | 1937448 Kr4sh35
Kr4sh35's picture

"Everyone is equal. Some are more equal than others".



Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:53 | 1937454 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

and, progressive democrats, check out some of the sixteen democrats (just enough for passage) that signed on to unlimited military imprisonment without trial for u.s. citizen supporters of al quaeda, taliban or "associated forces": stabenow, whitehouse, shaheen and levin

reregister republican and vote for ron paul in the republican primary and again in the general election.  something good rather than nothing good.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:50 | 1937456 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Newt will save the country. 




Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:24 | 1937507 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Newt can play my flute...

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:53 | 1937547 r00t61
r00t61's picture

I would much rather have an actual salamander as the TOTUS, as opposed to Newt Gingrich.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:35 | 1937592 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Did you forget to add <sarc> at the end of your statement, or are you just trolling?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 01:51 | 1937459 Yamaha
Yamaha's picture

Life, Liberty and the Persuit of Happiness? Long trampled under foot.....

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:02 | 1937469 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Regardless of how the bill gets passed in it's final form, the sheer ignorance or flagrant disregard by our elected officials as regards the principles embodied in the constitution is what terrifies me.

Frank Luntz on the other hand is terrified by OWS.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:28 | 1937513 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Congress, along with this Admin. reminds me of the Red Coats of 1775. Let us see who will stand for Liberty. I'm in.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:35 | 1937525's picture

Colonists under the crown had far more liberty and far less taxation than modern Americans do. Let's get those Gadsdens flying, folks.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 11:17 | 1938470 Janestool
Janestool's picture

why did they rebel then?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:02 | 1939014's picture

Because they wanted to be free. We, apparently, do not.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:01 | 1937558 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Frank Luntz wears a toupee

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 11:46 | 1938613 tamboo
tamboo's picture

still buying into that ignorance meme?

i suppose it can be comforting, few want to admit to being duped.

is it really that hard to grok that the biggest heist and slaughter of all time

would at least require a modicum of intelligence?!?

Researching Criminal zionism


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:02 | 1937470 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Where in the " Hell" , is John Corzine?  Answer; Hanging out with  Bob Iger on PLUTO!

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:04 | 1937473 Klazy Plick
Klazy Plick's picture

When the government has no interest in enforcing the borders, it provides itself with a very nice authoritarian premise that it doesn't have to deal with people inside its borders as citizens first and foremost, but rather as likely illegal immigrants, and possible security threats.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:21 | 1937499 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Pretext....not premise.

I also moonlight as a grammer troll.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:37 | 1937528's picture

Your services are welcome. But I would have liked to have seen definitions and examples of each term. The more you know...

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:32 | 1937589 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Aristotle held that any logical argument could be reduced to three premises and a conclusion. Premises are sometimes left unstated in which case they are called missing premises, for example:

Socrates is mortal, since all men are mortal.

It is evident that a tacitly understood claim is that Socrates is a man. The fully expressed reasoning is thus:

Since all men are mortal and Socrates is a man, Socrates is mortal.

In this example, the first two independent clauses preceding the comma (namely, "all men are mortal" and "Socrates is a man") are the premises, while "Socrates is mortal" is the conclusion.

The proof of a conclusion depends on both the truth of the premises and the validity of the argument

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:53 | 1937769 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I also moonlight as a grammer troll.

You mean 'grammar'.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 12:01 | 1938694 BigJim
BigJim's picture

He never claimed to be a spelling troll.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:05 | 1937474 caerus
caerus's picture

"a republic, if you can keep it."


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:07 | 1937477 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

What is ironic about all this intrusion is that is it occurring at the same time that when we call about our own financial, medical information, or even generic bills, and personal accounts, we have to spend five minutes revealing personal information to prove who we are to discuss our own accounts, heaven forbid we ask a spouse to make such a call for us anymore...Huh?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:28 | 1937512 catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

Is it getting old? Feeling frustrated? Could your time be better spent?

Maybe there's a more efficient way to verify identity. Maybe some technology could make it simpler, faster, better...

Are you ready to ask for it yet?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:36 | 1937526 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Won't happen casper. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:07 | 1937611 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Bzzzzt ... wrong answer. The FEMA soup kitchens won't want to waste precious time checking papers, so.......

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:34 | 1937755 spankfish
spankfish's picture

The FEMA soup kitchens have been out sourced... ya gotta go to China for a soup line now.  I posted the memo.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:10 | 1937781 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Thanks for the update. I'll look it up. I'm rather partial to a bowl of juk for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:16 | 1937494 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Irony of history: this time around US goes fascist while Europe stays land of the free

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:27 | 1937509 dr.charlemagne
dr.charlemagne's picture

if Europe moves toward fiscal integration with policy being promulgated by technocratic unelected international bankers, i doubt it will remain the land of the free

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:29 | 1937516 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

If you mean freedom to get taxed at fifty percent of your income for the ambitious among us, and the freedom of fifty percent of the economy being government expenditures mostly transfer payments to low income people who were too lazy to advance themselves no thanks.

Europe is a great place for the rich and for the poor, but anyone from humble means wishing to advance himself, be left alone, and allowed to keep his money and pay his own passage, to perhaps someday be wealthy himself....that person has his income taken away from him in taxes while inherited wealth is lightly taxed, if at all.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:40 | 1937529's picture

I'm just a regular guy and one government agency or another takes half of every dollar I earn through federal, state and local income taxes, county, municipal and school district real estate taxes, sales tax, utility taxes, drink tax, tobacco tax, gasoline tax...

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:10 | 1937568 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Same here. I always figured my tax rate at 50% for most of my adult life here in the US. Not including sales tax, gas tax, phone tax, cable tax, property tax, tolls, parking, water, cap gains, inheritance, luxury and other taxes.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:23 | 1937581's picture

Reminds me of this:


PUDDY: Let’s finish this up.

JERRY: Did you two break up?

PUDDY: (While punching up numbers on a calculator) That chick’s whacked. We’re history. (Back to the transaction) I just left out a couple of things:


JERRY: "Rust-proofing"?

PUDDY: (Reading off what he’s adding up on the calculator) Transport charge, storage surcharge, additional overcharge, finder’s fee

JERRY: "Finder’s fee"? It was on the lot!

PUDDY: Yeah, that’s right. (Continues reading off) Floor mats, keys..

JERRY: ‘Keys"?!

PUDDY: How ya gonna start it?


"Additional overcharge," kills me every time I hear it.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:17 | 1937573 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Europe is a great place for the rich and for the poor, but anyone from humble means wishing to advance himself, be left alone, and allowed to keep his money 

Sorry, if you're middle class you can never keep your money. In Germany education is covered. Healthcare? Covered. Retirement funds are generous. That removes huge expenditures that put millions of Americans in debt. 

As for average Americans to some day be wealthy, that's becoming the great mirage. Was true at one time but today, more Americans will inherit wealth than will ever earn it. That's what happens when wealth is too concentrated

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:43 | 1937598's picture

Wealth becomes concentrated when political power becomes concentrated. Advance the cause of individual sovereignty.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:37 | 1937640 Incubus
Incubus's picture

no way I'll be as successful as my parents are--they're business owners. 

I just don't see investing time or money in this country as being worthwhile.  America has been done for a long ass time.    Between death by a thousand taxes and failure to compete because of arrogance & complacency instilled thru decades of meddling in the affairs of other countries around the world, the wisest choice you can make is gtfo before millions of arrogant americans have to face reality and own up to the fact that American exceptionalism was only possible through underhanded efforts.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 04:53 | 1937652 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

That explains your comments to me.  I am self sufficient and I provide for my remaining parent. It's time to make it on your own.  Sorry,  I started my response before reading your entire comment.  You don't have a pot to piss in yourself, so you live off your parents.  Shame on you for your unkind criticism towards my innocuous first post. 

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:19 | 1937684 Incubus
Incubus's picture

How'd you get "you live off your parents" from "No way I'll be successful as my parents are--they're business owners."


I assume you did well in school?  Undoubtedly--they encourage that sort of non sequitur bullshit.  Fucking loser troll.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 06:15 | 1937716 ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

I probably should have turned off my computer after my first comment, which was just INFORMATIONAL in content.  I am not a troll,  I am one who seeks knowledge.  You, apparently have it all figured out and cannot be bothered with the mundane issues that we little people face every fucking day of our existence.  Once again,  what exactly did I say in my first post that would elicit so many negative responses?  I read this site everyday and and until recently I have not posted much.  Fuck you, and I hope you more successful parents don't feel the same way about you, for your sake.  I can appreciate sarcasm when it is warranted, but that clearly is not your forte.  Don't make me have to tell your parents to take away your computer privileges.  I forgive you.  Be nice,  I am a good person who has accepted responsibility to manage the affairs of 9,000 people.  I will do the best I can for them and improve over time.  No one is perfect.     

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:51 | 1937832 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Because you responded to posts that lead off-topic, with posts even more off-topic.  Because you continue response threads waaay beyond what is necessary to make a point. Because you are very thin skinned. Because you feel you're right and those that disagree are wrong and you are the person to tell them they are wrong. Because you call out other's grammer, when you yourself are not sure. Because you resort to bad language quickly. Because you think your posts are informational, when they will almost certainly elicit a negative response from the board members. For these reasons, I think you are a troll.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 13:20 | 1939090 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I think you are a moron, but does that make it true?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:58 | 1937774 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

In Germany education is covered. Healthcare? Covered. Retirement funds are generous.

I am doing what I can to live without theft.   

What's in your wallet?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 14:42 | 1939386 Hohum
Hohum's picture


I think you've mentioned that blue states should tax their citizens to provide for the welfare state.  Probably a good idea.  But I think you should acknowledge that if you get what you seek most of the ambitious folks won't get that rich.  Choose your society: low tax and decentralized with fewer ultra wealthy or high tax, centralized, and the opportunity to be really rich.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:23 | 1937504 trimtrac
trimtrac's picture

I must say, WOW! So my friends and I aren't the only ones that have noticed the erosion of freedoms at all levels. I am going to pass this along to everyone I know. The question really is,"How and What actions can be taken to overthrow the status quo"?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:42 | 1937533 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

It will require massive civil disobedience and going Galt on a grande scale for the 50 th to the 99 percentile.

The one percent and above support a statist, stable status quo. They have enough money to defend their rights in any system so they care not if rights of the little peoople erode.

The bottom 50 percent cares not about rights either. As a general rule they are easily led by anyone promising them something for nothing, funded by the top 50 percent.

On an individual level we have to do our part no matter how small.

Buy and sell with cash in the untaxed market.
Starve leviathan of money any way you can. It is the fuel of government expansion and oppression.

If enough of us do this we can have an impact. However I have my doubts. I fear that individual liberty was just a transitory phase of the enlightenment, and now it is being subverted by "progressives" and neocons.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:19 | 1937576 vato poco
vato poco's picture

I think they're already made their preparations for the troublemakers who'll try 'civil disobedience on a grand scale.' The YouTube vid on Carrier IQ software that's threatening to go viral is most illuminating. Seems those handy little smartphones - and wireless tablets, laptops, etc - have a program ("carrier IQ") that A) logs each & every keystroke you make B) can't be turned off, even when you hit what the makers say is the "off" button C) collects your GPS location info, even after *that's* been "turned off" D) even has the capability to record all your calls e) and then sends all that lovely highly detailed info off to....locations unknown. F) the smartphone carriers say it ain't going to them, but G) if their lips are moving, odds are they're lying, or H) if they ain't getting it, who is? It's going **somewhere**....maybe to 'No Such Agency'?

Am not a computer weenie, but all the above seems to be true, or at least not denied/discredited yet.

So reasonable people might ask, why is that info being collected? Why has that capability been kept secret? Who wrote the code for it, and who made the decison to load that code? Since we don't know where it's going, what's it being used for? At whose behest? And since data storage costs have dropped down to essentially "free", will this info be kept for use for the next 50 years? Cui Bono?

For the skeptics: Yeah, that's a SHITLOAD of data to mine. OTOH, what agency is known to have 90%+ of all the world's Crays, plus presumably the (still-secret) next 4 generations of supercomputer? Again, not a geek, but it seems that'd make haystack needle finding a lot easier. Doucement, lads, Doucement. Read your JJ Luna. Paper and electronic trails are the enemy, burn/disposable phones are your friends, cash is King, and they can't catch what they can't find.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:01 | 1937664 Acidtest Dummy
Acidtest Dummy's picture storage cost have dropped to essentially free..
(Didn't they also say, "Paper and ink are essentially free"?)
I'm sure I've heard, "Nature abhors a vacuum."
Therefore, we will fill ALL the essentially free data storage with, wait for it... FRNs! (or rather their digital equivalent)
Then we will be comfortable with imaginary money.
And this will all be forgotten like tears in the rain.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 08:00 | 1937777 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

I'm sure I've heard, "Nature abhors a vacuum."

That is absolutely true!  I have purchased three of the damn things in the last five years.  Nature especially abhors them on hardwood floors.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 07:50 | 1937766 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Oh yes they can.  You just told the whole world who you are and where you are.  hackingteam my friend... hackingteam.  If you don't know who they are and what they do and provide, its too late.  Software is a bitch.  

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 16:31 | 1939755 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Not at all, amigo, not at all. I'm not advocating opposition to or (Heaven forbid!) resistance to our government masters. Heck, no! That would be *wrong*!! I LOVE Big Brother, yassuh, I shorely do. I'm merely an insignificant little privacy advocate, worried about criminals and bad people who might steal or hack all that info our gadgets are collecting on us to do us harm. Besides, prepaid phones are a wonderful budgeting tool. You'll never be shocked with a 90-page phone bill when you have to pay up front. Same with cash vs. credit cards. Getting one's finances in order is something the, the government would look favorably on, surely. As the revered leader of northern Korea has repeatedly said, adherence to the principles of Juche can only help the state to grow stronger in order to, uh,... to help the less-fortunate! Right?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:44 | 1937535's picture

Just keep fanning the flames of discontent. When you're in the barber chair or waiting at the pizza counter drop one or two objections to our current state of tyranny. Regular folks need to know that they are not the only one's who feel threatened and are becoming angry about it.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:23 | 1937505 trimtrac
trimtrac's picture

I must say, WOW! So my friends and I aren't the only ones that have noticed the erosion of freedoms at all levels. I am going to pass this along to everyone I know. The question really is,"How and What actions can be taken to overthrow the status quo"?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:46 | 1937538's picture

Bob and Bing and the Road to Morocco.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:33 | 1937520 caerus
caerus's picture

adams said that fear is the foundation of most governments...

as long as the populace is kept ignorant and fearful (for ignorance breeds fear) they will willingly submit to authoritarianism...they will gladly lay down their liberties for the false promise of security...they will without question submit to a yoke of slavery

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:34 | 1937521 Barry Freed
Barry Freed's picture

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:48 | 1937542's picture

"Don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here." -- Captain John Parker, 1775

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 10:10 | 1938147 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

I learned it as "...injurious of these ends,..."

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:34 | 1937522 Barry Freed
Barry Freed's picture

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:35 | 1937524 dr.charlemagne
dr.charlemagne's picture

does anyone care to speculate specifically and quantitatively on what will happen when one of the powder kegs in the middle east goes red hot? What will the credit markets do on the first day? what will US equities do on the first day?

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:41 | 1937530 Peter K
Peter K's picture

But Andy Stern has the answers. Maybe we could dovetail some of him with some of the above and come up with.......


Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:43 | 1937534 Peter K
Peter K's picture

And we can change our system, because it obviously is broken (Right?), to some thing better. Maybe the Egyptians can give us some pointers.......

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:56 | 1937552 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Islamist political thought is so well entrenched and organized that it was inevitable to come to power at some point. It is a natural evolution toward democracy, just as the jacobin phase was unavoidable in frances pilitical evolution.

Disraeli pointed out that all political careers end in failure.

The islamists have developed this mythical savior status that has never been tarnished by the practicalities of actually running a government. The people will have to become disillusioned with them before their forms of government can evolve further.

The majority in Iran are very much ready to move on to real freedom if we in the west can quit playing into the hands of the mullahs.

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 03:22 | 1937580 Peter K
Peter K's picture

I think the Russians were ready to move on in 1918 after the first disasterous winter, but somehow the Communist party made it to 1989. Funny that:)

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 05:49 | 1937705 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

"The majority in Iran are very much ready to move on to real freedom if we in the west can quit playing into the hands of the mullahs."

Israel has no interest in a free, prosperous and influential Iran.

The US and Britain will keep on doing what they are told and can't quit  playing in the hands of demonized mullahs

Fri, 12/02/2011 - 02:47 | 1937539 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

The American dynamic was meant to be different. 

It was different. And now even a blind man could see that it is gone.


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