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Guest Post: Where Is The Line For Revolution?
Submitted by Brandon of Alt-Market,
The subject of revolution is a touchy one. It’s not a word that should be thrown around lightly, and when it is uttered at all, it elicits a chaotic jumble of opinions and debates from know-it-alls the world over. The “R” word has been persona non grata for quite some time in America, and until recently, was met with jeers and knee-jerk belligerence. However, let’s face it; today, the idea is not so far fetched. We have a global banking system that is feeding like a tapeworm in the stagnant guts of our economy. We suffer an election system so fraudulent BOTH sides of the political spectrum now represent a hyper-rich minority while the rest of us are simply expected to play along and enjoy the illusion of choice. We have a judicial body that has gone out of its way to whittle down our civil liberties and to marginalize our Constitution as some kind of “outdated relic”. We have an executive branch that issues special orders like monarchical edicts every month, each new order even more invasive and oppressive than the last. And, we have an establishment system that now believes it has the right to surveil the citizenry en masse and on the slightest whim without any consideration for 4th Amendment protections.
There are plenty of pessimists out there who would assert that Americans are totally oblivious to these developments. I have not found that to be true at all. Millions of people are awake to such issues, and millions more are, at the very least, angry at the state of things, though they may not fully understand the source of their distress.
Only a fool would deny that a fight is in the air…
Though the atmosphere of conflict is present, we are indeed experiencing a pause, a breath, a quiet moment before the breach, and this is a confusing time for many.
We human beings have a very odd tendency to view our own species as inherently and irrevocably violent, or at the very least terribly flawed. However, for all the negative press mankind gets for being “warlike”, if we look back at history it is much more customary to find people desperately trying to avoid conflict, not provoke it, especially if there is an element of tangible risk. Wars are usually not fought by the general citizenry, or the men who promote the pursuit of hostilities. They pay other people to fight for them. If they were ever expected to actually participate in the same battles they lust after, they would probably change their minds about the whole idea rather quickly.
Most often the only instances in which common people take up arms and charge towards combat based on principle have been revolutions. Some revolutions are based on lies, and some are based on inspiration, but all of them require men to conquer their own apathy and fear of confrontation. This is no easy task, and it sometimes takes years or decades of social adaptation and organization.
The elements of a revolution are synchronous. They are like the ingredients of a boiling tropical storm. Each vital aspect of the event must be in place, or there can be no energy or direction. That said, if an environment is left sweltering and volatile, and this electric stew is maintained long enough, eventually, a tempest will rise.
The real question is; where is the tipping point? What causes a population to tolerate or ignore certain crimes by governments, but not others? Where is the line in the sand that if crossed, turns an apprehensively meek citizen into an “enemy of the state” ready to lay down his life against the very system he was born into? The answer is an intuitive and psychological one, rather than mathematical.
Colonial Americans suffered through numerous and mounting indignities over the course of many years before taking up arms. They attempted nearly every method imaginable to counter or reason with British oppression without turning to violent means. They exhausted every avenue, legal, political, and social. They held rousing protests. They decentralized economically and countered British trade controls. They constructed brilliant legal arguments appealing to the monarchy to embrace logic. They attempted diplomatic redress after redress. It was abundantly clear that they did not want a war. When average Americans consider the revolution that gave birth to our free republic, they tend to forget the long struggle that was necessary to rally support for a declaration of liberties. No society, no matter how right in their position, and no matter how heinous the tyranny, jumps directly behind the muzzle of a gun to solve the problem. Revolution takes time…
As difficult as it is to rationally gauge the exact moment or circumstance that triggers revolt, the intensity or build up to conflict can certainly be felt. That pressure is tactile in America today, and is becoming difficult to ignore. The reasons are obvious. In the past 10 years alone elements of our government have cemented into place the “legal” framework to:
- Detain U.S. citizens indefinitely without trial under the guise of enemy combatant status.
- Assassinate U.S. citizens without trial and without due process under the law, including the very clear requirements of the treason clause.
- Confiscate resources, including your private property, in the name of national security and preparedness.
- Take control of or eliminate all communications networks including phone, radio, television, cell, internet, etc. in the name of national security.
- Unleash a swarm of unmanned Predator Drones over our homes and towns to make mass surveillance of the public easier. All without probable cause or the protections of the 4th Amendment.
- Capture, collate, and monitor the communications of millions of citizens without probable cause or a warrant under the FISA domestic spy bill.
- Declare martial law without congressional oversight and embed active serving military amongst the populace in a law enforcement capacity. This includes the institution of Northcom, which is a standing military presence in the U.S. whose primary mission is to quell domestic dissent.
Most of the laws and executive orders that qualify this behavior from our government have been tested, at least in a limited capacity. These abuses of power have already galvanized a groundswell of activists across the country, and I believe that if implemented in a broader manner, will instigate revolution. Where is the line? I believe the line will be drawn with these trespasses:
- Any action that involves the standardization of indefinite detainment or rendition against American citizens will result in rebellion. The second due process is thrown out the window and the right to a trial by jury is revoked, there is not much left for a population to do but fight back. This includes pre-emptive assassination as well. The more often enemy combatant status is applied to get around Constitutional protections, the more exponential public anger and fury will be. Black bagging people will lead to war.
- Economic mismanagement or deliberate derailment by banks has been accomplished with the aid and collusion of government. This has been made abundantly clear by numerous instances of exposed fraud, including the Libor Scandal, in which the private Federal Reserve and agencies within our own system have openly admitted to hiding the precarious nature of our financial situation. Any further implosion of the overall economy will be blamed on this fraud by a considerable portion of the public. When people’s wallets and bellies become empty, it’s amazing how quickly they will get off their couches to solve a crisis. If they can’t find justice within the system, history has shown that they will look for justice outside of it.
- The institution of checkpoints, invasive technology like naked body scanners, and exaggerated law enforcement presence on a wide scale, will invariably lead to revolt. Dealing with TSA thugs in an airport is one thing; people fly voluntarily, and when they do it often involves a particular level of fear and anxiety, which can be used as rationalization for extreme security measures. Dealing with blue-shirts on the streets near your home, at the bus stop, or on the highway, on the other hand, is not going to go over too well. These tactics have already been experimented with on a small scale. I don’t care how sheepish the American people appear to be in this era; start invading their personal space on a regular basis and many will eventually respond with fists instead of shrugged shoulders.
- Predator drone fleets hovering over every square mile of the U.S. is not only completely unacceptable, it is going to escalate dissent into the realm of revolution. Any society that harbors even the slightest morsel of individualism is going to think “expedient regime change” when flying surveillance cameras are buzzing over their shoulders 24 hours a day. Set aside the fact that many of these drones will be launched weapons capable. No government has the right to categorize the whole of a citizenry as potential criminals. “When innocent until proven guilty” becomes “guilty until proven innocent”, revolutions become inevitable.
- Martial Law is an impractical solution to any national crisis. The Founding Fathers understood this well, which is why they specifically opposed the use of standing armies, especially in peace time. Under the Constitution, the private citizenry was supposed to be the disaster reaction force, not government paid centurions. There were multiple reasons behind this position. First, military troops are not trained for and do not have the capacity to police a domestic population (especially their own) in a practical manner. They are trained to do one thing; dominate an enemy. Second, the citizens within a particular state or county would have a much better understanding of that region’s needs and complexities. A military composed of mostly unfamiliar outsiders would not know or care about how a local system operates, and would instead try to impose its own one-size-fits-all methodology. Finally, as apathetic as many people seem, they still do not like to feel bullied or subjugated. Being surrounded by armed troops at every turn with the executive granted legal authority to detain or kill without verifiable cause would make any man a little perturbed. I do not believe many in the U.S. will quietly accept a martial law scenario, regardless of the excuse given by government (terrorism, economic disaster, foreign war, etc.). A move towards military administration of domestic affairs will lead to revolution.
The internal strife of a nation is not predicated on the transitory moods of its people but the attitude of its government. Revolutions are not waged by happy men in an honorable land. True revolutions are a product of generations of discontent stemming from dishonest and vicious bureaucracy. An establishment government facing a wave of discord from the masses has, in most cases, done something to deserve it. I, like many, do not relish the idea of a new American revolt, but if I am to be honest in the face of the facts, I have to acknowledge that the potential for one within my lifetime is significant. I also can’t say that it is not necessary. Unless tomorrow brings a miraculous shift in current totalitarian trends, revolution may be all we have left…
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I'd like to say you are wrong but I know better. Need proof take a look a this video of Hank Johnson a Democratic Congressman from Georgia telling a Navy Admiral he thinks more Marines on the island of Guam could make the island tip over. Many of you will remember this from 2010 but many of you may not as the press shied away (as usual) from reporting this absolutely incredible exchange.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zNZczIgVXjg
Keep in mind it was Americans that VOTED to put this staggeringly incompetent fool into office. This is what passes for a "leader" in America today. Just imagine the brain power of his constituency.
That still makes me laugh. WTF? These puppets are truly clueless.
Indeed. I know a guy who understands the extreme value theorem, but denies that it applies to tax rates. As you can probably guess, Mr. Laffer Curve Denier is a vociferous liberal.
revolutions don't demand knowledge of economics. They just need to understand that they are all being ripped off.
Coming to a skyline near you...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18896236
Jefferson would be proud of this article
All of these laws you cite were enacted by our elected representatives. Never forget that.
Funny, I know for a fact that I didn't vote for any of these pricks.
Yes they were sort of. As I write this I am pissed off that I am confronted on both the left and right sides of the page by ads with pictures of the First Ass Hole Lying Son Of A Bitch with the language "Obama/Biden. Middle Class Wins. Court Upholds Obamacare. Show you agree. Join Us." or some such crap. Blood boiling. They must be paying a pretty penny to serve up that incendiary BS here. Now aside from the fact that the Chief Justice who shall remain nameless decided to rip up and discard the constitution in granting unlimited authority to the central government to require ANYTHING of citizens without any limit other than what can pass political muster - under the tax power (which was enacted as the 16th amendmenet and provides for collection of income tax to get around the prohibition on direct taxes which are explicitly forbidden to the central government in the body of the constitution, and the mandate is income how?) rather than the commerce clause of course - there is the matter of how the piece of shit law was enacted. Because this one was NOT actually enacted by our elected representatives in the normal way. The house passed a blank bill out of committee (all tax bills must originate in the house), sent it to the senate who passed their abomination using a special reconciliation procedure reserved only for budgetary matters and not subject to Filibuster (ie, not appropriate for the law at hand), then the house deemed it passed, they did not actually vote to pass it. You cant make this shit up. And of course they, in their infinfinite wisdom EXEMPTED themselves from it while subjecting the sefs to their 2700 pages of nation killing horse shit. If there is a cause for revolution it is here in multiple ways. And STILL there is hardly a peep out of the population. The people I see, some of whom would be considered intelligent just do not understand and do not care. As other here have said, it will take some mundane usurpation of liberty that happens in a certain way at a certain time with just the right optics to awaken people. I just do not see it unless the shit really really hits the fan.
Nice rant +1
Yep. I thought about it myself.
We did not rebel when the Federal Reserve Act passed under shady circumstances.
We did not rebel when Social Security passed. Also first not a tax until, oops, it is!
We did not rebel when Medicare passed.
We did not rebel after Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.
We did not rebel after the forged birth certificate was brazenly released.
We will not rebel over the Obamacare raping.
They are either going to have to try and take our guns and/or ammo.
OR
We have to be starving in the streets because of the financial collapse.
I am betting on this last one. Lots of wrongs building up need to be made right.
Agreed, and basically SCOTUS said that there are no limits on the power of the govt because we can be taxed for doing or NOT DOING anything. This was in essense an affirmation of the INCOME TAX without limit. At least we have removed the facade of a constitutional government, and affirmed that we are in a spectator police state complete wih show elections.
Simply a coincidence that DHS has been stocking up on arms and JHP ammunition.
50 years of Liberals talking hope and now we talk the r word. Ya, thats progress for ya.
If it weren't for Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates and Radicals, this country would be a much BETTER place to live.
If it weren't for Liberals, Conservatives, Moderates and Radicals, this country would be a much BETTER place to live.
________________________
Radicals, moderates, conservatives and liberals are US citizens, proponents of US citizenism.
You might be on something here.
I think you are definitely on something here.
akak said:
In his Chinese citizenism time zone, it's already weekend madness at the Peoples Liberation Opium Parlours. Inhalationing of opium smokings now the muchingful.
Revolution will not be here until the tattered remnants of the Middle Class find they can no longer feed the kids or afford basic cable.
Until then, just let them bitch loudly to let off the steam. Violent talks burns off a full tank of anger.
They keep the level of outrage just slightly below the threshold of revolution. They've been studying this type of thing for quite a while.
I don't think the elites are as smart as you give them credit for
Wonder if we will be supporting a UN resolution to punish "repressive" governments when our government are the ones shooting in the street.
#41
When you say "we" and "our", exactly who would that be?
Assuming you live in the US, have renounced your US citizenship? If not then it is still your government no matter how much you may dislike it. If you're not a US citizen then you are likely living in some satellite country of the US, how goes the revolution there?
It's unfortunate, but you must actively reject the social contract if you want out, and while a few on this site may have, I don't think it is even close to a majority.
It can be argued and proven that the Government has broken the contract, but most people don't even realize there is a contract to be broken, let alone that it is written down.
#41
I stopped playing about 10 years ago. I don't collect 'wages' and they don't get my taxes. In addition, they don't get my votes and they don't (usually) get my unconscious use of the word "we" when I talk about them.
Since they don't benefit from me, I don't actually exist.
My family benefits from me, but they also don't have a lot of imperial entanglements.
Do you pull over when the red and blue lights flash, have a drivers licence, pay property taxes, go to court? These are all implict acts of acceptance of the social contract. When you see 5% of people truely accept, not just see, but accept that the social contract has been deeply and thoughly voilated, that's when you will see a true revolution.
#41
What we need are more petrodollar wars, more money printing and more bankster malfeasance.........ya, that should work...FU ExxonMobil
pre-emptive assassination! bitchez!
That's almost always used by TPTB who have the money and motivation to get close enough to the rich and powerful to do the deed. The lone gunman acting alone story is from the same book as Goldilocks and the 3 Operatives.
But thanks for playing.
Besides, if you kill all the people responsible for today's financial and social morass, it would be genocide, not assassination.
correction.
it hould be holocaust
Did I mention the horse you rode in on?
What we need to do is bring back Hitler and clone a few thousand of him. Let them loose on the Bankers for a few weeks. That should just about take care of all our problems.
Brilliant plan. It's thinking like this that saves us all the effort of logging into the Yahoo financial pages.
No, that's the beautiful part. When wintertime rolls around, the gorillas simply freeze to death.
You the Hjalmar Schacht award.
"Unintended Consequences", by John Ross.
A Revolution of attrition.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
spanish seem to be getting there:
http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/07/19/251782/spain-workers-hold-biggestever-rallies/
DON'T START THE REVOLUTION WITHOUT ME. SERIOSLY, GIVE ME A CALL I'LL BE RIGHT OVER. REMEMBER THE ALAMO? I DO, I WAS THERE JUST YESTERDAY. SACRIFICE I AND MY SONS WE MUST. AMEN!
The only way The American Sheeple will wake up is when they can't get their basic goods and services. Until then nothing will happen !!!
Organized revolution in the usa is, imo, unlikely. Anarchy and chaos will be the result eventually.
I agree. Most Americans are notBsmart enough to understand where the threat originates. They'll turn on each other in a heartbeat cause they won't know what else to do.
The American revolution is a misnomer from the citizens' perspective. The elites in the US got tired of paying homage to the British elites and desired to have it all for themselves.
It was VERY difficult to get the common man interested in a war endeavor as living under British domination was thought to be no different from living under american elite domination.
American troops were known to abandon battles regularly and of course blacks had no rights as citizens so they were not interested in swapping one master for another either. Promises of free land and such had to be made to conscriptions before they would fight the war.
A revolution in the US in the future will either consist of localized groups breaking free from US laws and customs, individuals voting with their pocketbooks and no longer supporting the financial systems and tax systems, and hungry groups in larger metropolitan areas demanding food and shelter.
The occupy movement demonstrated one important fact and that is Americans are no more stupified and deluded than any other citizen group worldwide. That is heartening.
As a group, Americans are still a VERY long way from living in the kind of conditions that have sparked modern revolutions. But we are growing a disaffected, disenchanted and disenfranchised core quite quickly these days.
And the bitching will go on as long as there's language and mouths to use it.
You are right on. Especially the disenfranchised part. Just look at all the things Goldman Sachs does.
Goldman owns the largest controlling share position of Education Management Corp (EDMC) at about 54 million plus shares.
They get kids to take all kinds of majors like acting, art, and the stuff you will never need and then you are in debt to them for life.
Is is a wonder the the Occupy Wall Street Crowd has been treated so harshly.
You would think the most passive demonstration in the world was trying to over throw the government.
Instead, they simply are trying to change priorities of Wall Street Bankers.
Whoops. Maybe the Banksters do own our government.
Instead, they simply are trying to change priorities of Wall Street Bankers.
By shitting on police cars and raping their fellow protestors.
What are you 15? Did you get that info in you public/communist school history class?
Maybe you should look at what the revolution produced: THE GREATEST COUNTRY THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN! Please compare the French, Russian, Chinese, and German revolutions for the OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM. No other revolution produced so much freedom and prosperity in the history.........you guessed it......of the world.
Start learning to use your head and not just parrot what some other idiot has told you. When those American "elites" walked out of that CONSTITUTIONAL Convention they gave the POWER back to the people. Washington could have been KING and the people would have cheered! Instead we were given a REPUBLIC. A nation of laws.
Quit being a candy-ass cop-out. The reason we are the way we are is because the PEOPLE have sold their freedom for play pretties, easy living, and cheap debt. You can hide behind some "elitist" and try to blame it all on him, but WE THE PEOPLE had it all and threw it away. Some day if we want it back we will have to get it back the same way they got it. I just hope to God we have the character to establish such a sensible form or government.
Three things we need to add this next time:
1. TERM LIMITS! Can I get an AMEN!
2. Balanced budget ammendment. No back room deals with banksters that enslave the people.
3. Open frickin' season on lobbyist and any whore of a politician that takes one red cent from them.
well said
Amen +alot
AMEN!!!1!1!!!
+Million
Amen
Lets just repeal everything passed since 1856, and go back to the you dont own property and pay paxes you dont vote. That will eliminate a great deal the "people" voting themselves in traitors who will allow them to sel their birth rights for a bowl of porrige.
American troops were known to abandon battles regularly and of course blacks had no rights as citizens so they were not interested in swapping one master for another either. Promises of free land and such had to be made to conscriptions before they would fight the war.
_____________________________
Bull's eye. The article is unsurprisingly hogwash, forgetting to list major causes for the US citizen war of independence.
Like the King's willingness to protect the Indians'right to property.
US citizens were interested in the civil war as it would give them an opportunity to expand and rob land.
This was a main engine.
Is the current US government unwilling to expand? Of course not, the US citizen government has been walking the Earth, looking for wars to grab resources and redistribute them to favour the US citizen middle class.
That major engine of the war for independence no longer exists. The US government does the job US citizens expect from a government, grabbing resources and redistribute them to the citizenry. The King's was not performing that task and caused the anger of the US citizens.
No risk of revolution in US citizen countries.
It is also worthwhile to remember that negroes were incentived to join the war: both sides offered freedom to negroes joining the war.
The King called theirs the black loyalists and US citizens had some names for the negroes.
It is a very important event because from the beginning, it exposed US citizen natural duplicity.
Noticeably, even as they lost the war, the King was bound by honour to uphold his promise and worked to fulfill it.
On the US citizen side, negroes who fought were systematically re enslaved.
It showed what kind of people US citizens would grow to be.
More lies, more baseless anti-American bigotry, more pushing blame to the exterior, more egregiously false sophistry and blobbing-up.
More AnAnonymousitizenism, very Chinese Citizenismistic.
The war on terrorism .... look within the country, not without as to the root cause of the problem
Revoluting is fun until someone gets their eye put out.
(Or the Evil Ming catches up with you)
Americans are still too comfortable. They aren't going hungry and the AC still works. Let the grid go down or the checks stop coming- then there might be some action.
Where's the line? Shit. If you're looking for the line then you're already a herd animal. Herd animals might be revolting but they don't revolt.
"Give me Liberty or give me death," is going to be a tough proposition for Americans willing to obey the spirit of that quote in the coming years.
That's what I say. Too many zombies. The stupidly index holds the lie together. People are too lazy, I'll informed or dumb. FEMA camps will be for the awakened (aka terrorists), not the zombies.
The zombies have been everywhere, throughout and long before human history. It's our nature to shut up and keep our heads down. A valuable survival skill.
It's not just Americans or Chinese or even the Uzbekis. Nobody likes being clubbed to death for publicly resisting the dominant paradigm. We zombies get pissed off too, but tend to keep it at home.
We know it's true, even if we don't like the fact.
And as for FEMA camps, I'm still betting they'll mostly be used as mousetraps. Put some government cheese in there with free big screen TV to watch, and the places will fill up on their own.
Then you spring the doors shut for a couple of months. When microbes and scavengers have done the tough part, cleanup crews bulldoze the dessicated bodies into pits, tidy the place up and open the doors again with more government cheese and free big screen TV.
I was reading your points about what would trigger a revolution and i was thinking: "Not true because this is what happens under any dictatorship". Just look at how long Egypt , Tunisia, Libya lived under a brutal dictatorial regime as you describe. It took decades after THESE steps were crossed...
easy on kool aid
http://nomorewarplease.wordpress.com/2011/08/25/libya-before-the-war-free-health-care-education-and-housing/
The revolution doesn't generally show up until the repressive regime is rocked by negative outside events or gets too greedy and stops tossing bread and circus tickets to the repressed.
And to echo a previous post, the "American Revolution" wasn't really a revolution in the classic sense. It was more of a tax revolt that turned violent. It lasted for about 38 years until 1814 when the British could no longer afford the resources to try to enforce their laws on a distant colony. They had troubles closer to home that were a lot more dangerous than colonial tax dodgers.
The problem with your thinking is that those people didn't know what it was to be free anyway. The have been some despot's slaves all their lives and will be again shortly.
Free people look at such things from a whole different perspective. We know what freedom is, we like it, we shoulder the responsibility of it, and we will fight to keep it.
The "Colonist" were a unique poeple and time. You problably had 80% of the free thinking, free living people on the planet pooled in the east coast colonies. They had sacrificed and tasted a life that they were unwilling to give up without a fight. The main problem we have today is that this country is full of a bunch of people who have the motto, "Better red than dead." They would knuckle under to anything because that is the way they have been raised and educated their whole life. When Obama was telling those people that the government gave them all they have, he was talking to his peeps. Those that have been educated by his ilk and would rather be a mindless slave than shoulder the responsibility of personal freedom. That is why they cheered. There are many of them here now, and the government will always support them.
Don't confuse free men with those that were given the "gift" of democracy by GW so they could vote in their lord and master rather than it just being handed down to the next despot in the royal family. Freedom scares those people to death.
Zola, bad analogy. You can't compare a mostly Christian nation to the Middle East. When unemployment gets worse and tax levies are down, austerity will begin and the printing presses will ramp up, which just causes the downward spiral to accelerate. Looting will ramp up, the iron boot will come down harder and then the bullets start to fly. My question is not whether a revolution will begin, it is who will the leaders be? Will they be worth following, or will they be tin-pot power hungry pricks?
Put the crooks in jail. Deport the marxist. End all 501's . Rand Paul for President.
A chicken in every pot. A pony for every cute little girl.
Fix the 501's and all other server errors.
Ru Paul for President just because she was so cute back in the day.
You had me until the last line.
I hope our military will step up to their oath. If not, God help us. America went global and we no longer have any sort of an American culture, save the men, mostly from the heartlands who volunteer for our military. If they don't start the revolution and obey their dictators, we're done.
Editing to say it doesn't mean we won't march on DC with our shotguns and die but without the military, we're done.
A surprising article to be talking directly about revolution. I don't think it will be happening as long as people can eat. And if we do ever get to that point I'm sure a false flag pinned on the "nation responsible for our problems" will rally the citizenry together. The empire has come a long way and they are very good at mass manipulation.
"Precisely, Doctor."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYSzHLbJHS8
Foodstamps. Right?
Every nation is just nine meals from anarchy.
"When people’s wallets and bellies become empty,..."
It is interesting to note that in the last 10 major riots in the United States (Wattts, LA, etc..), authorities had to commit an average of one LEO and/or member of the military to every 2.53 rioters in order to quell the riots (the lowest ration was 1:4.2 or so). When you run the rough numbers, this means that once a bit more than 3% of the American population actively riots for whatever reason, there will not be enough combined Fed, State, and Local LEOs and Military (all branches: Army Navy, AirForce, Marines, Coast Guard Nat. Guard, etc., all ranks and rates included) personel to handle (suppress w/o overly excessive force) the breach of peace. What would happen if more than 5% rioted? 10%? Good luck.
Only if they don't decide to use HE. Vets know what that means
Yep.
But there exists a fair amount of heavy weapons and sharpshooters in the populace. If HE were used, hello Syria
You don't think a couple pounds of HE in a major US city, courtesy of DHS would be the biggest alarm clock in the history of the world?
Nah, the only "revolution" will be an increase in "weaselism", which is to say cheating, evading, loopholing, lieing.
The obvious symptom of this is the evolution the use of the word "boy scout." It used to mean civic duty, etc, and now means "rube", or "sucker", "square" "naive...when it doesn't refer to someone who stands in the way of the speaker's desire to escape the rules.
For better or for worse, the conservative philosophy predicted this evolution well. A breakdown in civicism REQUIRES more government, which leads to greater incivility, which requires ever more government, BUT at any moment in time you can never have enough government to to prevent breakdown.
Big government steals from the individual his sense of civic purpose, of family centered purpose, and makes him a self-referential addicted hedonist dependent on and reverential of government bennies, but ever more disrespecful of government's rules, just like rebellious adolescent teenagers with their parents. Duty goes out the window.
You still have in the mix true heroes, millions of them, who come off as cranks, squares, rigid impractical folks, grumpy and uncool, irreformable. I'm thinking of Eastwood's character in Gran Torino. Or the dude that doesn't leave his mate and her kids, no matter what better opportunities come along, because of a sense of DUTY, civicism, belief that the good can, if not prevail, then at least continue in little human islands in the greater sea of animalised trolls.
Weaselism. Yeah. Excellent word for the concept.
It probably won't catch on like truthiness, but it really catches the spirit of the syndrome.
I've been calling it Douchebagery!
Cc
In the age of internet, revolutions in the political sense of the word are not doable the way they were in the past. People didn`t have much to fill their time with. Now there`s plenty of online interaction to keep it things exciting(porn, youtube, snuff videos, virtual conflicts). In the past when people wanted excitement, they`d just join some revolution.
If the public is fed enough bread and circus(panem et circenses), it can be kept in check.
In today`s world a political revolutions aren`t really be possible without much instigation. Also, purchasing power has to drop significantly to the point where food becomes unafordable to create that "revolutionary hunger".
Let`s look at this recent attempt at some kinda` revolution called "occupy". Would it have been possible without the initial instigation of the Adbuster NGO? Maybe not. Paid instigators have started lightning up the fuse.
Who were the other instigators? Foreign powers with vested interest in destablizing US in order retain some world hegemony. Propaganda channels like RT(Russian) and Press TV(Iranian) were part of this process. There`s nothing Russia, China or Iran would like more than have US swept by revolution, taking it out of the world geopolitical context so they can goble up the globe and divide it between themselves. Taking out a country from within is easiest way to win a war. It`s what the west, using Pope Paul 2nd and Brzezinski, managed to do to USSR by turning Gorbachev.
You got something to back up the claim about Iran and Russia or China fomenting unrest through occupy?
Sure. Just watch their(RT and PressTV) overextended coverage of "Occupy" and see the amount of airtime they give them. Not a day goes by that you see them on their shows, occupy guests and so on.
Those 2 are Iranian and Russian government funded propaganda networks pushing a very clear agenda.
What agenda? The truth? Honest journalism? It's a lot better compared to CNBS, CNN, and Faux News.
Don`t be naive!
Everything RT and Press TV do is to badmouth and trashtalk US current state of affairs. They`d to anything to emphasize only the bad. They`d go out of their way to do it.
They`ve hired talk show hosts that bash current systems(financials, political) 24/7 to create the impression that US is just one big corrupt pile of shit. Even their financial show "Capital account"(decent show btw) is aimed towards discrediting the country.
It`s a Kremlin funded network with clear aim to instigate and showcase only the negative, in most cases by picking talk show hosts who are clearly against the status quo.
While ofc, we all know they`re not very far from the truth, their aim is very clear. To instigate and to denigrate. Double aim: instigation and denigration. These tools have been long used by propaganda networks worldwide.
Paid troll...
Go easy on that weed toolboy.
-I bet you didn`t read the book(Dune) `n just watched the movie.
The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies
http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
Too bad I don`t have a "Gentleman`s Guide for Paranoid Twats" around to link it for you.
Also, as previous tool commented earlier. When you can`t attack the message you go for the messenger. This is what weaklings do, go on personal attacks as they`re not able to bring sensible counter-arguments to the table.
"Though the atmosphere of conflict is present, we are indeed experiencing a pause, a breath, a quiet moment before the breach, and this is a confusing time for many."
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."
-- Claire Wolfe
There's nothing wrong with starting early if the work needs to be done anyway.
As the article points out, the conditions for revolution tend to percolate for a while before things come to a head. I don't see any real advantage to being an early mover. This twilight period is a gift. I'm not convinced that armed revolution would do anything other than replace one set of monsters with a different set of monsters. I'd rather just forego a centralized, federal government altogether and view secession and nullification on both an individual and group basis as a better option.
This twilight period is a gift...
I couldn't agree more. I'll be 120% ready tomorrow when the last of my family arrives to stay permanently.
I couldn't have dreamed the complete collapse wouldn't have happened yet when I started getting ready for it back in 08. To actually be free & clear, well provisioned, AND have my extended family on board is so far above my goals when I started it's crazy.
Now I can only hope for a slow collapse. I'd hate to see all our efforts go up in a mushroom cloud.
Remember this article?
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-17-27/should-we-kill-politicia...
Pretty interesting reading.
I was always under the impression that the straw that broke the camel's back was the Stamp Act. So what is today's Stamp Act?
The French revolution, I think, was catalyzed by hunger. Corn prices leading to "revolutionary hunger" is not what's happening today. The American Revolution (original one) was a revolution of ideas and ideology. I think today's "revolutionaries" (Andrew Napolitano, Ron Paul, Peter Schiff) are similarly disposed.
The French revolution, I think, was catalyzed by hunger. Corn prices leading to "revolutionary hunger" is not what's happening today. The American Revolution (original one) was a revolution of ideas and ideology.
_______________________
The US of A was a revolution of expansion. The King was stern on respecting the Indians rights to property, coercing US of A residents in non expansion.
The massive theft that would ensue is the main cause of the US of A US citizens enrichment.
The royals in France paid a horrendous price for supporting the burgeoning US citizen movement.
Theft is very important in US citizen economics and for example, US of A seized the navy that were sent by the french to help them against the english. Something like 70 ships (they had to rebuilt them hence costs)
US citizen colonists renegated on their debt with french business men, simply defaulting and refusing to pay for the goods they were delivered.
This attitude engulfed millions of pounds, pushing a lot of businesses to bankrupcy and rising unemployment.
You've got what you get when supporting US citizens.
You need to see Barnhardt's presentation on the Vendee massacre. It presents a whole other side of the French Revolution that gets largely ignored. Amazing since 450,000 were slaughtered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaMLoLtFn6s&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IBMm6o5jra8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ib49I4wYw7I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ztlNj8rWviI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJmKOhxeMfY&feature=related for a movie preview made with an all child cinema company. Weird but interesting.
American's are so fucking stupid I don't think they would do anything even if Obama got on national television and said " You know that hope and change we talked about? Well me and my buddies the bankers have been fucking you for four years! And you know what? We are going to do it for another four!". The stupid sheep will probably shrug their shoulders, grab a beer, shove a ham sandwich in their mouth, and flip over to Survivor.
I would expect an Obama LANDSLIDE after that!
Finally, a president so HONEST that he admits he's a totally owned lying bastard.
Well me and my buddies the bankers have been fucking you for four years! And you know what? We are going to do it for another four!".
Please Dr E,a' that was taken out of context, he did not mean what it sounds like' the next morning headline will scream: President says four more years of prosperity and jobs.
Totally agree with you Dr. E. For one thing, there can be no revolution with out a clear enemy. I have been querying so many people casually for years now on what they think is wrong and no one, not one person has said the banksters are at the crux of the problem. It's always " we just need a better president/better government", " economies through out history have changed and I must go back to school start a new career"," housing is down and that's the reason the economy is bad when it recovers all will be as before, because it ALWAYS has recovered historically, just be patient". I've tried to point out the systemic fraud in the system which has lead us to the place we are now and have only gotten blank stares. They really think I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. After years of trying not just to help people see the Matrix, but just to have an intelligent debate on the issues, I ve come to the conclusion the majority of people don't want to wake up and will only do so if their ham sandwich and beer are no longer there. That's the world I'm preparing for and I'm sorry to say I really don't give a damn about them anymore, fuck 'em. They can just stare at Glee Club ( whatever that is they talk about all the time) and hope it can fill their stomachs 'cause my pantry is closed.
Miffed:-)
American's are so fucking stupid
_________________
'Americans' are not stupid. They know their government is providing them with the opportunities US citizens expect from a government, mostly robbing of resource"s to be redistributed to US citizenry.
They also know that the good old days of fast expansion are gone, making the US citizen government's job much more difficult.
My name is Mouse E. Dung, murderer of tens of millions of my fellow Chinese citizens, and I approve this Chinese Citizenism message.
The revolution has already started. The people who have been doing the fighting for us are groups like Wikileaks, Anonymous and other hackers, a few newspapers,blogs, and groups like the Occupy movement.
I`d be careful if I were you because it`s very easy to be used as a tool.
Julian Assange has a big infatuation with himself(personality cult) and also a big infatuation with South American socialist dictators. He`s just like Oliver Stone, kissing leftist ass of random dictators and communist leechers, while painting the west as some corrupt empire while rest of theworld is pristine socialist haven. Now RT(Russians) gave him his own TV show to further instigate people to revolt, which is exactly what they want.
As for "occupy. That`s a leftist movement started by Adbusters ngo and propped up by Russia, Iran and China.
Very often, the masses have been used as pawns in a bigger game. Some just can`t see the forest for the trees.
Some more paid troll...
Right. I could say same thing about you comrade.
The Gentleman's Guide To Forum Spies
http://pastebin.com/irj4Fyd5
Too bad I don`t have a "Gentleman`s Guide for Paranoid Twats" around to link it for you.
Also, as previous tool commented earlier. When you can`t attack the message you go for the messenger. This is what weaklings do, go on personal attacks as they`re not able to bring sensible counter-arguments to the table.
Julian is a system construct.
So said Putin a while ago, hinting he may be something else though he did hire him recently for RT as propaganda tool. Guess he realized was not the case and that he was just being his usual paranoid KGB self.
at a first sign of a revolt lot of plane fill with congressman and banker will be heading to Tel-Aviv
I to regret that I have but one life to give for my country.
And I will give it gladly you motherfuckers. I fucking hate you congress!
I fucking hate you office of the president!
I fucking hate you supreme court!
I fucking hate you republicans!
I fucking hate you democrats!
You are all traitors to the America of the founding fathers!
America needs to hang all of you bastards and run your famalies into the swamps, you fuckers!
And cut your balls off and stuff them into your fucking filthy mouths! Lying, thieving scum that you are, all of you, except Bernie Sanders, Sir, you are a true Patriot!
I'm fucking sick of this shit, bring it or change it cocksuckers!
Sanders is a patriot?
Yeah, no kidding. I was right with him until he started that crazy Sanders shit. Had to change my arrow and everything.
Patriot? I thought he said he was a Socialist.
Thank you.
Soon we will once again force our military to fight another unwanted war...be prepared.
In an electorate fed by 30-second to 3-minute news spots and commercials, a careful division has been cleaved with nearly identical 40-percent "parties." It's quite easy to keep the plebes in line with such little effort. Obama could hold an Oval Office address to the nation, pull out a live infant and eat it, claim it was okay because it was an evil Republican and his 40% loyalists would cheer. No doubt W could have done the same with a replicated effect from his 40%. Divide and conquer is probably the most efficient means of control ever devised...much more effective at hiding the shadows than outright dictatorships. So, you remaining unorganized 20% "independents," well STFU and pay your taxes, or else.
Lines 1-3 have already been crossed. We were about to revolt, but then Snooki said something outrageous and Charlie Sheen tweeted a picture of his balls, and we forgot.
when flash mobs can ransack stores with no consequence, who among us doesn't believe revolution isn't possible....
jb
Don't be afraid of the revolution, be afraid of the terror(s) that follow(s) when the socialists/marxists/communists/fascists/whatfuckinever win and purge people like us.
In the past 100 years, how many revolutions have NOT resulted in a communist/marxist/socialist/fascist takeover or military junta? And what is the majority of this country's youth's political bent? It will be Russia all over again, Zionist/banker financed too.
The author asks, " Where is the line?"
Here are two opinions on the topic:
“The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppose.” ~ Frederick Douglas
" We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." ~ Ayn Rand
Given the fact half the population is on the govt teat, I am not optimistic.
Rand was wrong on part of that - first off, rule by brute force is not an age-old thing but actually something relatively new. It really didn't get going until the 20th century. It took the collapse of the moral standards of society for us to develope a government which rules by brute force...because where custom and common law are gone, only brute force can remain.
On the other hand, the perfect tyranny is not a draconian legal code, but no legal code, at all. If the laws are draconian but a strictly enforced equally on all, then there is no actual tyranny - everyone knows where they stand and can work safely within the system. It is when government can set aside the law at will that you get the most hideous of tyrannies. Arbitrary government, as identified by Solzhenitsyn, is what is truly anti-human.
Revolutions require "courage". That courage can be fueled by a deep-seated belief in certain moral principles and a refusal to allow these to be violated, or it can stem from indifference to additional loss.
Americans from Brandon Smith to the most rotund Idol-watcher lack that courage. I lack that courage. You lack that courage. The proverbial "THEY" know that.
Lots of people are ready to ride into town on a white horse (or snowboard) after the shooting stops and claim, "I called for this for years, so follow me". Nobody wants to be point man. Nobody wants to be the Tunisian fruit peddler and far too many want to be Mohammed Morsi. Too many want to be Thomas Paine, and nobody wants to be Crispus Attucks. What the Neocons are to war, the Brandon Smiths and Mike Kriegers are to revolution. "We're right behind you."
Where's the line? Where's your line?
agreed, at some point you wake up and theres a revolution...
.
just you wait
Will austerity cause the "entitled" to riot?
In this event will the "entitled" meet the non- entitled who are well armed and a lot of people get hurt?
Try mentioning the need to cut back school teachers pensions in a mixed crowd and watch for the resultant explosion.
If the markets fail to perform or some other reason causes the above haircut to government pensioners the shit will hit the fan.
The entitled with the help of the oligarchy may take an early lead in this fight but in the long run the non-entitled may gain considerable strength.
The root causefor all of this is greed and arrogance and lack of good old fashion work ethic.
Too bad really.
Perhaps we all suscribe to "less is best" and avoid this confrontation.
Starting the ZeroHedge Citizens Militia. Any takers?
Not where my IP addresses can be found, no. But thanks.
BTW, do you have health and education bennies?
This is the first time I have heard of the Group of 30 and I have done a lot of reading in the past year. The don't seem to consist of top controling members of the ruling elite but they do comprise of some of their agents/puppets and function somewhat like the CFR except steering financial and economical policy instead of geo politics. Can anyone post some links/resources where I can do some reading and dig a little deeper into this groups mandate and history?
Thanks in advance!
(Reuters) - New Yahoo Chief Executive Marissa Mayer's compensation package could total more than $70 million in salary, bonuses, restricted stock and stock options over five years, according to a regulatory filing made by the company Thursday.
...as long as she doesn't laugh in public she gets another $15 million....
once their hot pockets are taken from them look out.
4 score and several billion domino's pizza's ago....
well said, Mr. Smith.
i'm pretty sure we'll all now be considered terrorists for commenting on this piece.
Mike and Molly Nation to arms! All you fat bastards your pop tarts have been banned!
WTF was that crap!?
The Revolution has already stated. Its been building for around a year.
I went to a protest today.You can read about it here: http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20120719/NEWS02/307190040/Day...
People are not afraid to call out the corruption in the system. The protestorss outnumberd the Democrats at their own fundraiser. The politicians refused to show up and deal wiht the people. All it will take for the system to change is if enough of us decide to call them on their lies, corruption and bad behavior. There are enough of us left in America to take it back--and our numbers are growing all the time.
If the War with Iran starts--the protesting will just get bigger and the it will be the beginning of the end for the Empire.
So say we all!
Vermont... ha! LOL! I was born there. What a silly place. Pretty though.
It can be silly, but it is probably less nutty than the cubicle your working in now--at that military base in northern virginia.
Joe-Sex-Pack's got YouPorn for free. What R world?
Good news. They don't have the right to legally torture us yet! Proud to live in a country where they don't have torture on the constitution.
Ever heard of Indefinite Detention and Waterboarding?
The revolution to come has begun. It started with the legitimacy of the state, its credibilty, lost to the average citizen. This realization, person by person, began over 40 years ago and has now reached a majority north of 80% (see polls on Congress, etc). The intensity of the realization is well expressed in the posts here. A delegitimate state cannot stand, no matter how many cops/military on every street corner.
The next step in ratcheting up from apathy (apathy is a sense of powerlessness) becomes event driven. As big as the US is, the events will be spawned by failures in the economy, all agree, and develop into local outbursts - the ATM that no longer works, the govt checks that stop, and so on will be met with flash mobs now mainly populated by black kids. The kids who invaded Wal Mart and so on, as a prank, are simply a weathervane. Think of them as a probe of the defenses - and what did they learn - there are no defenses at the local level. You can loot your way to consumer happiness - at least for a short time.
These will be more frequent as it the failure of the central planners become manifest and its lazy underbelly exposed - and soon, these mobs will be joined by mass protests and violent confrontation with elected representatives - of which there will be few worth knowing - much like now, because what normal, sane person would decide to go into this except for the opportunity for graft (see Bell, CA). The state will begin to implement more and more high visibility riot response. This will be the wrong move. It will lead to real escalation - lots of pot shots and whole areas of geography that are under curfew and martial law - this will be the wrong move again.
You see, it won't take much to tip this; it is the snowball effect that will absolutely bring the Washington establishment to its knees in terror. When Billy Bob and Daisy Mae take a Glock out, the revolution will not be televised.
May be time for a deck of cards with names and faces of the enimies of Freedom and Liberty?
Just the one deck?
If the state is going to kill me for no good reason I at least want to be tried by a Banana Republic in a Kangaroo Court. What a fucking joke this 4th Reich is.
I think the enemy's Achillie's heel is the fantastic complexity of the system that's required to keep it alive. "Going Galt" is a very viable strategy. Focus on becoming a spore that can survive the coming fire and sprout on the otherside. Although many people are chompin' at the bit to start hangin' 'n' shootin' and to generally "do something" useful about Leviathan, that's a mistake. An overt challenge constitutes fighting in his arena and you'll loose that fight.
There are 1000 ways to disconnect and develop your strength. Also realize the corrosive influence of "doomer" views. How many young people have you ever meet who tried to explain their college/career ambitions? It's easy to subtly poison these views by introducing doomer considerations. Would you sleep easier at night if instead you tell them to get a job, pay their taxes, and obey the law? There's no easy road for them any more than there is for you.
This system cannot be reformed because "the people" themselves are so entirely confused about what a viable system would look like. Nor can you organize and overthrow it. Like the mattress from the local crack house, there's no cleaning it, you can only burn it and get a new one. The only out is poison the resources The Beast draws upon to feed itself. How long is the logistics tail that goes into building the 24/7 US drone surveilance fleet? It will take very little social disruption before that becomes impossible. If you intentionally try to distrupt any of this, then you are detected and squashed. On the other hand, if you merely do nothing but cheer as mother nature and entropy destroy it instead, perhaps you'll survive to the other side.
The colonists revolted because the British government was trying to suppress what the colonists took for granted - that an Englishman had a right to his own property and to largely live his life as he saw fit. While the forebearers of the rebels did leave England because of a variety of legal and social disabilities, they still left an England where the rights of Englishmen still existed - but starting with the dissolution of the monasteries under Henry VIII and continuing on with the "enclosures" which began under the usurping Hanoverian dynasty, the people of England had largely lost their old rights. An oligarchy of landed and, especially, monied interests directed British policy and so it was natural that these monied interests would want the colonists to pay taxes to cover the cost of fighting for the mercantile British Empire which had just spent a gazzillion pounds sterling fighting France for mastery of the ocean trade routes. Stealing the wealth of others in order to defray the costs of getitng themselves richer seems to be a commonality among financiers across time and nations.
The trouble for the money men is that while the English at home had become supine, their cousins in America weren't. It was essentially an attempt to reduce America to the status of England - compressing what took the better part of two centuries in to just a few legislative acts of Parlaiment. Of course this produced an explosion - and rather rapidly, too. The Seven Years War (that which built up the British debt the financiers wanted Americans to discharge - ie, the British government debt the financiers figured the Americans could be made to at least partially pay) ended in 1763 - only 12 years later, there was war. While it took dedicated efforts to rouse Americans to fight, it didn't take much - it was too clear and stark: people from across the seas were trying to tell them that they couldn't have this, mustn't do that and should pay in to a Treasury which would then dispense the money to rich people in England.
Our problem today is that the sense of liberty has atrophied - what was blazing hot in 1775 is now muted.
At least a third of our people are not only willing to trade their freedom for (false) security, but they already have. These are the mass of people you see at various government offices filling out the paperwork in triplicate to get this, that or the other benefit. If they'd invest half as much time in looking for work and then working, they'd be far better off - but they know no other way of living as some of them are on their second or third (in some cases, fourth) generation of living like that. At this moment, these people are a dead loss to liberty - they won't fight for it because they don't know what it is. The good news is that such serfs of government are also unlikely to fight to keep their welfare - they'll sit on the side lines collecting their welfare checks, eating their cheetos and watching Judge Judy while the rest of the population argues it out.
Another third of our people are so entirely ignorant that they have actually come to believe that liberty means a government grant plus the right to watch naughty things on the internet. I realise that I over-simplify, but there is a great deal in this: it is the person who will argue with a white-hot heat to protect his "privacy" (a completely non-existent thing) while not understanding, at all, why a person belonging to a particular religion simply cannot - up to the cost of his life - do something in violation of his religion's teaching. I can well understand the people who are opposed to renditions - but to me renditions are far less a threat than the government's attempts to coerce conscience. Fundamentally, unless you actually understand why the Catholic Church is in opposition to the contraception mandate, then you don't really understand what liberty means. The people in this mix - which oddly runs from out-and-out socialist to most Libertarians - will fight, but some will fight for and some will fight against the government. Lack of a clear definition of what liberty is will lead to a great confusion in which side to be on...and a lot of these people, looking at those who are most willing to fight for liberty (those bitter clingers with their Bibles and their guns) will be turned off by them and figure that if these are the rebels, then I'm for the government.
And that gets us to the other third - those who are bitter clingers with their guns and Bibles. They are the backbone of America, the people with the clearest idea of liberty (even though many of them might not be able to articulate it - but it comes down to that long-ago rebel who, asked why he was fighting, said "because you're down here": an understanding that people have to be left to themselves or no matter what else they may be, free isn't it). They would fight - but it would take some overt act on the part of govenment to clearly compel an unwilling people. This would not be, by the way, because of renditions or drones or mythical FEMA camps...it would be because a bankrupt government is attempting to compel people to give up their wealth in order that financiers can get their debts repaid and, of course, so that grafting politicians can keep the welfare flowing. Rebellion will come on the day that the federal government tries to loot North Dakota so that California can continue to provide in-State tuition for illegal immigrants, as it were.
But, it doesn't have to come to that - and I don't think it will. The genius of our Founders, in my view, was very much guided by the hand of God. The system so created - even in its current, corrupted state - still has the ultimate mechanism for allowing the people to conduct a peaceful revolution. I do believe it is starting, I do believe it is growing and I do believe it will succeed over the next 10 to 15 years. I think we will turn out these grafters, banksters and sundry scoundrels and reform our nation.
But, of course, if it comes out otherwise, then it will be time to fight...
Wooo, some big good old past US citizen fabulist here.
US of A is a story of theft. The King was preventing the burgeoning US citizens to expand and rob indian lands.
But hey, Indians were not human beings so...
Yes, just like the Tibetans in their conquered homeland today, being blobbed-up by Han Chinese hypocrites, for whom it is always "Do as we say, not as we do ."
It's all good in Chinese citizenismland, because AnAnonymous has decreed that Indians are US citizenism citizens.