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Guest Post: Whitewashing The Economic Establishment

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics

Whitewashing The Economic Establishment

Brad DeLong makes an odd claim:

So the big lesson is simple: trust those who work in the tradition of Walter Bagehot, Hyman Minsky, and Charles Kindleberger. That means trusting economists like Paul Krugman, Paul Romer, Gary Gorton, Carmen Reinhart, Ken Rogoff, Raghuram Rajan, Larry Summers, Barry Eichengreen, Olivier Blanchard, and their peers. Just as they got the recent past right, so they are the ones most likely to get the distribution of possible futures right.

Larry Summers? If we’re going to base our economic policy on trusting in Larry Summers, should we not reappoint Greenspan as Fed Chairman? Or — better yet — appoint Charles Ponzi as head of the SEC? Or a fox to guard the henhouse? Or a tax cheat as Treasury Secretary? Or a war criminal as a peace ambassador? (Yes — reality is more surreal than anything I could imagine).

The bigger point though, as Steve Keen and Randall Wray have alluded to, is that DeLong’s list is the left-wing of the neoclassical school of economics — all the same people who (to a greater or lesser extent) believed that we were in a Great Moderation, and that thanks to the wonders of modernity we had escaped the old world of depressions and mass unemployment. People to whom this depression — judging by their pre-2008 output — was something of a surprise.

Now the left-wing neoclassicists may have done less badly than the right-wing neoclassicists Fama, Cochrane and Greenspan, but that’s not saying much. Steve Keen pointed out:

People like Wynne Godley, Ann Pettifors, Randall Wray, Nouriel Roubini, Dean Baker, Peter Schiff and I had spent years warning that a huge crisis was coming, and had a variety of debt-based explanations as to why it was inevitable. By then, Godley, Wray and I and many other Post Keynesian economists had spent decades imbibing and developing the work of Hyman Minsky.

To my knowledge, of Delong’s motley crew, only Raghuram Rajan was in print with any warnings of an imminent crisis before it began.

DeLong is, in my view, trying to whitewash his contemporaries who did not see the crisis coming, and inaccurately trying to associate them with Hyman Minsky whose theory of debt deflation anticipated many dimensions of the crisis. Adding insult to injury, DeLong seems unwilling to credit those like Schiff and Keen (not to mention Ron Paul) who saw the housing bubble and the excessive debt mountain for what it was — a disaster waiting to happen.

The most disturbing thing about his thesis is that all of the left-neoclassicists he is trying to whitewash have not really been very right about the last four years at all, as DeLong freely admits:

The third surprise, however, may be the most interesting. Back in March 2009, the Nobel laureate Robert Lucas confidently predicted that the US economy would be back to normal within three years. A normal US economy has a short-term nominal interest rate of 4%. Since the 10-year US Treasury bond rate tends to be one percentage point above the average of expected future short-term interest rates over the next decade, even the expectation of five years of deep depression and near-zero short-term interest rates should not push the 10-year Treasury rate below 3%.

Yet we are supposed to take seriously the widely proposed solution? Throw money at the problem, and assume that just by raising aggregate demand all the other problems will just go away?

As I wrote back in August 2011:

These troubles are non-monetary: military overspending, political and financial corruption, public indebtedness, withering infrastructure, oil dependence, deindustrialisation, the withered remains of multiple bubbles, bailout culture, systemic fragility, and so forth.

These problems won’t just go away — throwing money around may boost figures in the short term, but the underlying problems will remain.

I believe that the only real way out is to unleash the free market and the spirit of entrepreneurialism. And the only way to do that is to end corporate welfare, end the bailouts (let failed institutions fail), end American imperialism, and slash barriers to entry. Certainly, cleaning up the profligate financial sector would help too (perhaps mandatory gladiatorial sentences for financial crimes would help? No more paying £200 million for manipulating a $350 trillion market — fight a lion in the arena instead!), as would incentives to create the infrastructure people need, and move toward energy independence, green energy and reindustrialisation.

Then again, I suppose there is a silver lining to this cloud. The wronger the establishment are in the long run, the more people will look for new economic horizons.

 

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Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:06 | 2577529 knukles
knukles's picture

LOL

Foolishness.
Pabulum, propaganda, rubbish and tripe.

Minsky's work is diametrically opposed to those he cites.
Garbage galore.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:19 | 2577556 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Hey John guess what? Ponzi is the head of the SEC. And The Fed. And JPM. And he also happens to be the Prez. Amazing what alter reality is when you care to look....

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:19 | 2577629 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Yeah all four examples I used are from reality, not my imagination.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:16 | 2577645 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

great posts Aziz! thx man. 

 

edit: wanna talk about whitewashing? un-fucking-believable and yet somehow expected:

 


ECB, Bank of England seen easing next week European Central Bank is expected to cut interest rates

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ecb-bank-of-england-seen-easing-next-we...

 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:20 | 2577669 strannick
strannick's picture

Just as they got the recent past right, so they are the ones most likely to get the distribution of possible futures right.

Orwell would be proud of the sentance above, and Goebells would give him a sticker on the top of his page.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:58 | 2577835 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

academia is a mouthpiece for the power elite. theories elties support will be taught.

 

look at rubinites. Hillary lost, but her banksters are running the scene behind Obama.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:04 | 2578117 Richard Chesler
Richard Chesler's picture

Delong time sucking bankster cock.

Do fart on the general direction of fake intellectuals.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 11:13 | 2578451 FutureShock
FutureShock's picture

This just baically say lets get this over with and those in power were idiots .....  just getting it over with is not practical. We have problems with underlying problems and the key is to get rid of the problems as they come up and as they can be best predicted one at a time while trying for recovery and time. All at once would mean a long long time for recovery, lots of pain which is easy to say but real pain...there are kids and families without a clue.....no milk in the store to quote Paulson in the to big to fail movie. It is easy just to say more debt to pay more debt is crazy but it is too simplified. Very smart guys got it wrong which is easy to see now but perhaps not so much then.  Kind of like Greenspans recent comments, we are doing well bailing out the boat wthout fixing the holes, keeping inflation in control, I add maybe we can make it shore one day meaning the right adminstration and political will with even a slight cut in the corruption.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:06 | 2577913 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

I don't think you put enough emphasis on that hack Paul Krudman.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 16:03 | 2579059 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Knowing their program beforehand simply means insider info, dood.

Check those names against  the membership lists for:  Group of Thirty (group30.org), Bretton Woods Committee (brettonwoods.org) -- (lobbyist group for the international super-rich, Peterson Institute, etc.

Was Krugman correct when he stated that all climbing oil prices in 2008 (paper market price 13.8 times above physical market price) was "simply supply and demand" ???

Was Krugman correct when he stated that QE I and II wasn't for the banksters -- that they didn't want it nor like it????

Was Krugman correct, in a recent talk before the EPI, when he claimed the banks were quite healthy (anyone note that recent Moody's downgrade), and that the cause for the economic meltdown was too much household debt?????

The ONLY thing Larry Summers has ever been right about was his remark that women can't do science . . . .after all, Marie Curie only was only awarded two Nobel prizes in science!

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:50 | 2577746 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Are you sure ?

I thought Corzine was elected head last October.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:26 | 2577567 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

SOMEBODY might be able to "trust" Larry Summers, but it isn't anybody I know, and they would be trusting what comes out of the OTHER side of his mouth.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 23:57 | 2578021 jez
jez's picture

Haah-vud trusted him enough to make him president. That ended up costing them a billion or two. Plus his salary.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:08 | 2577712 kill switch
kill switch's picture

This is all that is left...

 

AMERIKA IS DEAD

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6ymVaq3Fqk

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:13 | 2577546 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

...end corporate welfare, end the bailouts (let failed institutions fail), end American imperialism, and slash barriers to entry. Certainly, cleaning up the profligate financial sector would help too (perhaps mandatory gladiatorial sentences for financial crimes would help? No more paying £200 million for manipulating a $350 trillion market — fight a lion in the arena instead!), as would incentives to create the infrastructure people need, and move toward energy independence, green energy and reindustrialisation.

Add world peace, kindness to animals, and the Garden of Eden to the list of your things that ain't gonna happen.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:17 | 2577554 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

The Garden of Eden is here and now.  It's just that man taking a bite of the apple, wanting to know things he cannot that makes it seem otherwise.

But I agree with your post.  Look at the dude who started lazycash9.com for example - he doesn't give a fuk about how the world "should be".  He's dealing with how it is.  Articles like this are simply mental masturbation.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:36 | 2577576 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Most folks know how to fix the problems.  Mr. Aziz sniping at Mr. DeLong ain't on the list of solutions.

I'll know we are well on the road to a fix when some sonsabitches go to jail, and I don't need to name them here, but THAT ain't gonna happen either.   It's a complete reset -- or nothing.

I'm crouched and ready, waiting for the starting pistol.   And it ain't shooting blanks.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:18 | 2577627 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Yeah, my wish list will not happen any time soon. You have to deal with reality. 

And to be honest, the status quo is collapsing. Eventually we will get a chance to replace the status quo. That's a good time to have a wishlist.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:56 | 2577655 Plausible Denia...
Plausible Deniability's picture

Solid analysis none the less. We may be closer to realizing many aspects of your wishlist than at anytime in the past 50 years. Total capitulation and devastation is often followed by Renaissance, even if it takes quite some time. The Keynesian left wing economists are no more than Phd'd Marxist central planners, whose models are born in the vacuum of academia. The irony that I have always found so perplexing and amusing is that their theories are carried on the back of the same capitalist structure the seek to usurp. Simply put, they monetize the credibility of a government/central bank to better control and normalize the inequitable capitalist economy that funded and enabled said government/central bank in the first place.

Anyway, completely agree with your call for the renewing/unleashing of the entrepeneurial spirits that built this country.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:13 | 2577550 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: Report from Inside a Major Insider Rothschild Conference

EPJ had a mole inside a recent insider Rothschild Conference. The conference was held on June 21-22, 2012 in Bratislava, Slovakia

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:16 | 2577553 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Nicely done, Mr. Aziz.

 

"Remember your mortality"

 

http://www.thedailybell.com/4043/Anthony-Wile-Memento-Mori-

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:55 | 2577561 Duke of Con Dao
Duke of Con Dao's picture

here's a vid of Something about Larry Summers in his full glory from The Social Network

tightly edited to remove the dull bits (less Winklevoss's)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haD1xUPHF7o

(this piece was highlighted in a New York Observer article) ENJOY

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:25 | 2577565 falak pema
falak pema's picture

who would want to whitewash "absolute black"???

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:46 | 2577568 john39
john39's picture

Henry Kissinger, also a war criminal, responsible literally for millions of deaths in Asia, is considered a statesman.   what else do you need to know about the forces that run the world?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:07 | 2577616 falak pema
falak pema's picture

that they are human...in all their variety and complexity. Some are worse than others.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:29 | 2577930 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

and those at the top seem all too often to be the worst of the worst.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:30 | 2577569 mendolover
mendolover's picture

Well all I know is that there is a VERY special place in Hell for Larry Summers and his ilk.  This guy Brad DeLong should be lumped in with the rest of the globalist elites, of which there are around 10K from I've read.  We can take 'em!!

Ron Paul 2012

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:57 | 2577656 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

what hell ?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:32 | 2577571 catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

just a slight correction...

"The wronger the establishment are in the long run, the more people will [suffer and die]."

And generally the dead only vote in really tight elections where the incumbent is in jeopardy.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:34 | 2577574 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

DeLong is INSANE.

He thinks Paul freaking Krugman, Paul "Createsomedebt!Createsomedebt!" Krugman is in the tradition of Minsky?! Minsky pointed out how conventional economics ignored debt and how wrong that was. Krugman literally advocated creating a housing bubble in 2002 to avoid a recession. He's literally preaching to his drone followers at the ny times that there are NO significant consequences to the U.S. taking on debt almost an order of magnitude greater than that in which we're already drowning.

DeLong is insane.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:34 | 2577575 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

plz, do not mention that man's name ever to me.    Larry Summer & Robert Rubin, i will not rest easy until these people are in jail.    those two should be in cuffs & suffering badly.     i could say more, but, will keep my typing shut for fear of junking.  

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:40 | 2577583 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Not likely you'll get junked here at ZH for that sentiment, Lynny.  Maybe elsewhere.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:48 | 2577692 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Never fear the cowardly anonymous junker LB.

Embrace him...hold him close, so you can get the angle just right ;-)

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:35 | 2577732 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Thanks for that Lynnybee! But I'd add Hank Paulson, who threatened the Congress with martial law; this, in and of itself, clearly signals who is running things and that it's a criminal racket.

I also agree with Rocky and nmewn that you're unlikely to get junked for that sentiment here, and even if you were, it would probably be from a Fed lackey or a useful idiot, so I wouldn't worry too much.

Illegitimi non carborundum. (Don't let the bastards grind you down) And, don't fear the junk. You're one of my favorite commenters :-)

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 01:35 | 2578102 rambo1028
rambo1028's picture

Out of curiosity ...do you guys think barney frank is evil or just a stooge?

I vote stooge....

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:40 | 2577585 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

p.s.   on the bright side, tho, i would like to profusely thank Robert Rubin for those cheap gold prices back in the early to mid 1990's !    thank you for the cheap gold bracelet that has quadrupled in price, i'll end up selling it for food, i'm sure.      Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, god damn criminals, thieves & looters ! 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:44 | 2577592 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

throw money @ slewie and accept austerity for yourselves or the system will collapse, BiCheZ!

OMG!  there it goes!  call now!

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:45 | 2577594 sangell
sangell's picture

Laying all the economists end to end across the Sahara desert might be the proper solution to our economic problems. The expense of maintaining these 'useless eaters' is a significant burden to any society. Heeding their advice ruinous in most cases.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:56 | 2577607 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Laying all the economists end to end across the Sahara desert..............

With strings tied to their balls on one end and a moon rocket at the other.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:25 | 2577630 geoffb
geoffb's picture

I was thinking more along the lines of the human centipede. Garbage in garbage out.

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1467304/

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:59 | 2577658 Plausible Denia...
Plausible Deniability's picture

Moon rocket! HAHAHAHA! I'm LMAO!! I needed that

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:16 | 2577622 GlomarHabu
GlomarHabu's picture

If all economists were layed end to end across the Sahara or for that matter arced all the way to the moon they could not reach a conclusion.  The cardinal rule in all of the "anointed" world of influential people is to give the people a date, or give them a number, but NEVER provide both simultaneously.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:31 | 2577875 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

"If all the girls who attended the Yale prom were laid end to end, I wouldn't be a bit surprised."

Dorothy Parker

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:21 | 2577723 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Economists mostly are shills for the establishment, whatever that establishment might be.  If you want to partake in good theoretical economics, you'll need to read the works of a lot of dead authors, and not all of it is even translated.  People like Irving Fisher, Joseph Schumpeter, von Mises, Jean-Baptist Say, and the anomalous Friedrich von Wieser.

 

"There is no security of property, where a despotic authority can possess itself of the property of the subject against his consent. Neither is there such security, where the consent is merely nominal and delusive." -- Jean-Baptist Say

Some truths are immutable, and most modern economists stand in the shadows of tall giants while proclaiming it is night.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:53 | 2577602 blindman
blindman's picture

On the Edge with Catherine Austin Fitts

Posted on June 30, 2012 by stacyherbert|
http://maxkeiser.com/2012/06/30/on-edge-catherine-austin-fitts/

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:02 | 2577660 CloseToTheEdge
CloseToTheEdge's picture

"Long ago, I made a promise that I would never act against the best interests or the excellence of my own people — that I would do my best to ensure that we were worthy of the stewardship of our world and that we did our best to leave a better world for generations yet to come. To make and keep such a promise is to understand that money and position are tools, not goals, and that death is not the worst thing that can happen."

C.A.Fitts

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:53 | 2577604 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

"Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door”

Liberty

The foundation of govt is tax, and the only tax that matters is the one on economic profit, which is invisible to all but few, because it rests on the shore on the other side of the Valley, which the income robots fear only more than their own collective, woven into the emperor’s clothing.

Monetary policy can only leverage the outcome, the leader of the “free” world is taxing economic inactivity, and the entire system is “e”mploding. Why?

Where do you suppose the kids, targeted by ACA, are?

For all the Internet chat, what are you doing?

Justice Roberts simply reminded the majority that it is its own fall guy, and that govt is a delay of delays, a black hole to be ignited.

Remember how this round began at Delong's place?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:00 | 2577659 kevinearick
kevinearick's picture

tec:

will catch up asap

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:59 | 2577610 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The world is not suffering just from bad eonomics. It is suffering as a result of bad men who are bent on perpetuating evil that spawns more evil, bad men who have inverted the list of priorities so that the least worthy cause gets the most funding. Bad men who fail to punish bad men and shield them as well. Bad men who are willing to strip whole communities of their livelihood by closing factories in pursuit of one more dollar in profit.

Rest assured that over the top military expenditure, men like Corzine being free, interference in the affairs of other nations and refusal to audit Fort Knox and to produce a report on silver manipulation, are all the evil results of evil men who may or may not understand economics.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:55 | 2577648 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

Peter Pan, thanks for your comment, well said.  And in addition, 'For the sociopaths, to understand or not understand economics is not a priority. This is because their goal isn't to promote a fair and just sociaty where the 'pursuit of happiness' is unencumbered. But rather their goal is to empower and enrich themselves. A law is not for their purpose entended to maintain a free and purposeful sociaty, but rather a method used to control and steal from the deserving, in order to maintain their power. And nothing is too great to be sacrificed in order to increase their power.'

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:33 | 2577677 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Very well articulated.

It has always been about their status, their wealth, their priorities, their families, their prestige, their tenure, their pensions, their social circle...not yours & mine. 

They are social outcasts to us with undeserved power & influence...real present day robber baron types.

They could give up all of it for the greater good of our society and get back in our good graces if they truly wished to be accepted as one of us. No one is asking they go on EBT or into public housing...but I do get sooo fucking tired of the continual, incessant, obnoxious pandering of the statist elite class, falling over themselves to be photographed with a starving child in Africa or an AIDS baby in the Bronx.

One hour of holding a "function" for the "less fortunate"...obligation now done and guilt mitigated to a lesser degree, comes the next hour...off to the yacht club dahhhling for a quick shower to wash away the stench of the hoi poloi, martinis, gaiety and hookers.

Then another quick shower ;-)

If what I say is not the truth, they could "fix it" all so very easily couldn't they?...the great omnificent powers that they are.

They won't. They like it just the way it is with us at each others throats.

Balance of power has to be taken back or the republic is dead.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:42 | 2577890 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

But how can you believe this and not see that 911 was an inside job?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:34 | 2577929 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

 Clashfan:

nmewn hatched yesterday after that he fell off the turnup truck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVY-iQDO8pg

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 23:31 | 2577997 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Why don't you go hump Quinn's leg some more, you seem to enjoy it...you two make a great pair...lol.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 23:26 | 2577986 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I would, if I could believe they could keep from running their mouths off about any top secret operation.

But they can't. We know that much however small that knowledge may seem.

Look, I know you guys are passionate about this but the time to dispassionately examine the evidence and discount some evidence as sheer moonbattery destroyed the credibility of what you were trying to present,

There were eyewitnesses on those jets (air to ground communications did in fact work) which was said by the presenters as they didn't work. They did. They relayed what was happening in real time and what was being done. There may be software that mimics a voice but there is no way (without a time machine) to know what voices to imitate and compare to passenger lists on the fly,missed flights, cancellations, subsitutions...the passengers were of course unknown at the time of programming beforehand...which led to my hard nosed tweaking of "voice to skull technology" comment (sorry)...technology is great but there is a time and space component involved here and always will be.

I'm not going to go through the whole litany of absurdities here from pre-planting explosives for novice pilots flying jumbo jets to hit perfectly on the spot, as chindit and I (lone voices in the wilderness that we were) already did...and took our lumps.

I stand beside my conclusion that in an effort (of malice toward our people or not, but probably incompetence) to show leniency toward foreign nationals (as the open society that we are) that bureaucratic mistakes were made, that allowed people who wished the American people harm...to enter.

And disappear on student visas...with no APB's issued for their arrest & deportation.

The Gorelick Rule was bureaucratic malfeasance...we cannot remain an open society if we are engaged in an active war...hindsight is of course 20/20...and I really do prefer an open society through documentation of who enters and where they are until or if they become citizens.

I hope I've made myself clear, I don't believe elements of our government actively set out to kill 3,000 of its people...not at that scale as it would lead to their own deaths...there would be no where for them to hide on the planet from our wrath...they do know that much, no matter how stupid they act sometimes.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 01:38 | 2578101 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Lots of hollow words

No common sense

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98&feature=player_embedded

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

Try science  some time

http://www.ae911truth.org/

 

 

 

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 02:28 | 2578115 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

"I would, if I could believe they could keep from running their mouths off about any top secret operation."

What would their possible motivation for that be? 

"But they can't. We know that much however small that knowledge may seem."

How many decades did the NSA operate (a much larger conspiracy by the way - dwarfs the size of the CIA) before the public even knew the agency existed?

You are an ignoramus.

"There were eyewitnesses on those jets (air to ground communications did in fact work) which was said by the presenters as they didn't work. They did. They relayed what was happening in real time and what was being done."

Which specific eyewitness statments are you referring to that you imagine prove the government wasn't in some way complicit?  In the case of Flight 93 eyewitness accounts (Shanksville, PA), those support the hypothesis that the plane was brought down by a missile (as does a debris field that stretched for 8 miles, including a 1-ton section of engine that was 2,000 yards from the crash site).

"I'm not going to go through the whole litany of absurdities here from pre-planting explosives"

These events exhibited all of the characteristics of controlled demolition and none of the characteristics of destruction by fire.  See a summary of these characteristics on the right-hand side of the page here:  http://ae911truth.org/.  It's simply irrational to believe in a hypothesis that fits none of the evidence and reject the one that fits all of the evidence.   This is a group of over 1,600 architects and engineers.  Compared to a very small handful of engineers with massive conflicts of interest who are willing to publicly defend the (government's) conspiracy theory you believe in.

"I hope I've made myself clear, I don't believe elements of our government actively set out to kill 3,000 of its people...not at that scale as it would lead to their own deaths...there would be no where for them to hide on the planet from our wrath...they do know that much, no matter how stupid they act sometimes."

And yet these same people in fear for their lives wouldn't be able to (in your estimate) keep from running their mouths?  Yes, you've made yourself perfectly clear.  Not.

History shows that governments are perfectly willing to do much worse on much larger scales at the risk of the wrath of their "own people", so your statement makes no sense whatsoever. 

Is it more plausible to believe that a couple of dozen poorly trained coke-snorting Islamic radicals (one of whom who couldn't even fly according to his flight instructor) deftly maneuvered through the world's most well-funded and powerful intelligence gathering/military apparatus, flying around in the most heavily monitored and defended airspace on the planet for just shy of an hour and a half without a response from NORAD, and ultimately snuck up on the Pentagon, employing an acrobatic maneuver to crash into an unlikely spot?  Or that the event was pulled off by a similar number of people with full knowledge of the plan and every aspect of the U.S. intelligence and military establishment, and who were in key positions governing its activities and responses, employing many unknowing others for secondary, compartmented tasks?

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 09:10 | 2578328 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Some of you guys are passionate and some of you guys are just insane.

So, in your deluded world one of our missles took out Flight 93 and the government also hit the Pentagon with a missle...that about right? Missile fired into the Pentagon from where?...what air force jet or was it a TOW from an overpass?...lol...idiot...you watch too much TV.

"Which specific eyewitness statments..."

A synopsis of Betty Ong and Amy Sweeney, flight attendants, American Airlines Flight 11 calling to inform that several of their crew mates and at least one passenger (David Lewin) have been stabbed/slashed, the cockpit door is locked and the pilots are not answering their calls. She (and the passengers) were having trouble breathing as something was in the air. The men in the cockpit now were sitting in seats 2A, 2B & 10B according to flight attendant Ong. For instance, 10B is Satam al Suqami who bought a ticket under the name Tom Al Zukam (from the passenger list). 

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidence/docs/Flight11.png

Amy Sweeney (the other eyewitness, flight attendant on board Flight 11) was describing all the hijackers as Middle Eastern men who had stabbed the pilots, one passenger and two flight attendants. She said the hijackers sprayed mace in the cabin, confirming Ong's account. She wasn't supposed to be flying that day and was filling in for a different employee who was sick.

While Ong and Sweeney were on the phone, ground control confirms transponders have been turned off, pilots (the hijackers now) are not answering the ground, the plane is flying erratically & off course. Ong and Sweeney say toward the end of their calls the plane is descending rapidly. The worst hurt attendant (Karen Martin) is lying in the aisle bleeding with her throat slashed (Ong).

Barbra Arestegue is the other wounded flight attendant.

Flight 11 went into the North Tower.

I'm not going to go over every one of these. Its all over the net, knock yourself out you friggin moonbat.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:37 | 2577738 ddtuttle
ddtuttle's picture

You're missing the point of this.  It is the flawed theories of economics that allow these socially destructive acts to be comitted without repercussion.  Because most people assume economics is a kind of science, they accept what they hear from the media and politicians.  But they are just as bamboozled as the public.  Even traders and financial experts drink the kool-aid.  Only a few of the most well placed financiers have figured out they are living a scam.  But even they fall prey to the moral hazard: "everyone else is doing it", "if I'm getting rich it must be OK", "if it were bad it would be against the law".

This is the real danger of a flawed theory of economics: it gives a scientific justification for socially destructive practices.  The moral hazards pervade the entire society.  

A rational theory of economics, simple regualtions and enfocement and you'd see your "evil" businessmen fall right into line.  So how evil are they?  After all they have a fiduciary duty to maximize profits for their shareholders.  They work within the flawed system as best they can.

Profits aren't intrinsically evil either, that's just another failed economic theory: Marxism.  That good people believe lousy economic propaganda just makes them responsible for thier own exploitation.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:55 | 2577949 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

Sorry DD,but it is you that misses the point. The sociopaths are the ones that dream up these flawed economic theories, and use them to control the market for their gain.  No, it isn't some rich businessman that is your enemy, as your state education has conditioned you to believe, but it is statist ideas that you seemingly bought into that conceal what the truth is. If someone has gained wealth honestly, then it is you and all of sociaty that has benefited. Let that economic truth soak in, DD.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:51 | 2577821 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Bad men are statists and believe that any one man should be responsible for another. 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 16:59 | 2577612 reinhardt
reinhardt's picture

kindleberger

NO WAY

 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:06 | 2577613 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the ills of democracy : either we have too many laws or not enough...Cape Fear.

Economia is no exception to the rule, even if it is a loose measure of social law, in a domain which is anything but precise! 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 17:52 | 2577650 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Larry Summers?"

Paul Krugman?

Ken Rogoff of the IMF?

As if there was ever any doubt in my mind of DeLongs sanity and allegiances...lol.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 18:47 | 2577690 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Brad who?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:05 | 2577707 Hondo
Hondo's picture

Dr. Steve Keen destroys DeLong

http://www.debtdeflation.com/blogs/

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:06 | 2577710 Hondo
Hondo's picture

All those listed by DeLong are Humorist not Economist

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:35 | 2577736 Abner Doon
Abner Doon's picture

If former Bank of America CEO Ken Lewis knew about secret Federal Reserve loans in 2008 and 2009, how did he not recieve BAC without knowing inside information?

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2012/06/if-former-bank-of-america-ceo-ken-lewis.html

If former New York Fed Chairman and Goldman Sach’s alumni Stephen Friedman knew about secret loans to Goldman in 2008 and 2009, how did he not buy GS with unknown information?

http://hartzman.blogspot.com/2012/06/if-former-new-york-fed-chairman-and.html

Thoughts?

Is Delong aware of this?

If Delong was aware, what would he say?

Have many coddled the status quo,
by ignoring what they should be screaming about?

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:39 | 2577739 NeedleDickTheBu...
NeedleDickTheBugFucker's picture

Boy, they sure do teach a lot of dumb stuff at Harvard.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 19:49 | 2577745 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Facebook And Social Media Stocks Overvalued On Spammer Skewed Member Counts

http://seekingalpha.com/article/687071-facebook-and-social-media-stocks-...

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:25 | 2577783 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Most economists believe their models. And believe that the government can print money with no reprecussions. They are DANGEROUS!

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:48 | 2577810 GernB
GernB's picture

Krugman got the recent past right? In what world. In a 2008 article titled "Simulous math" he calculated that a 600 billion package would be sufficient to get unemployment to 5%. I'm sure, in no small part due to his urging, in 2009 Obama and crew passed the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act, a 787 billion stimulous package. Notice that it was conviently bigger than Krugman had asked for. So if Krugman has gotten the recent past right, then we must now have unemployment below 5% right. Brad Delong is either buying Krugman's lie that he predicted the stimulous would be too small, or he is a part of the lie.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:28 | 2577928 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

Krugman got the recent past right? Well, GW was still president, but Paul Krugman actually wrote an article in 2008 on oil speculation where he actually got it right!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/27/opinion/27krugman.html?scp=1&sq=krugma...

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 04:10 | 2578159 GernB
GernB's picture

He gets a lot right, when he's in a less political and more acedemic mood. He wrote an excellent paper on how the current CPI underestimates inflation. A paper he conviently forgets about when he needs to use the CPI to make a political point.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:46 | 2577812 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

Good list of Most-Likely-To-Be-First-Up-Against-The-Wall when the SHTF.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:46 | 2577814 NoTTD
NoTTD's picture

And I bet none of them are predicting that.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 20:47 | 2577815 Bearish News
Bearish News's picture

I thought Brad Delong was a brilliant satirist for a few months. Before I realized he was a bloated idiot.

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:49 | 2577833 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

This is a good piece. I see a lot of good ones on here from Aziz.

 

I don't trust you. So why trust me?

They're dirty; they're filthy; they aint gonna last!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8NOmmmvrgk

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:00 | 2577839 Golden monkey
Golden monkey's picture

Surreal breaking : The elites are breaking each other in NY.

Ya know Tyler, I would not say I'm responsible, but I would not say I'm not responsible too. 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 21:22 | 2577867 essence
essence's picture

Brad Delong = a Fluffer ..  who has never held a professional position in private industry.

 

 

Sat, 06/30/2012 - 22:20 | 2577924 GOLDTEETHSILVER...
GOLDTEETHSILVERFILLINGS's picture

Add some flying tigers to into those arenas as well.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 12:16 | 2578576 Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

If they don't subscribe to the Austrian view of economics, then get em a rope and a tree because they're just degreed thieves with extra letters after their names and sometimes a shiny award or two, e.g. Krugman.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 13:46 | 2578784 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

More Equity Rally Expected.

Any traders predicting a multi month equity rally apart from me ?

As of June 30th I am.

Last week was the turning point.

Further equity upside and USDX weakness expected this year according to my analysis.

However the SPX big picture remains very bearish and unfortunately this will not change.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-24/market-analysis

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 14:22 | 2578882 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

"end the bailouts (let failed institutions fail), end American imperialism, "

amen and amen.....but americans are liars and love their lies - in business, politics, and personal relationship. thus it will not end without utter catastrophe....ending fraud requires just a tad more truthiness than can be assembled.

Sun, 07/01/2012 - 22:22 | 2579657 jag
jag's picture

Delong is raving liberal and he will interpret anything to make it appear liberal ideas are ascendent. In other words, he'll lie like a rug whenever necessary.

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