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Guest Post: Why You Should Be Excited About National Bankruptcy

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man blog,

One of the great absurdities of our modern financial system is that a nation living within its means, i.e. spending less than what it confiscates in tax revenue, is no longer the norm.

Living within your means is now considered ‘austerity’. And unfair.

Whether in the UK, Europe, or North America, many voters have become so accustomed to the government’s massive role in the economy, they can’t begin to imagine how it could be scaled back.

You usually hear heavy objections from people like– “What about roads? If we start cutting budgets, there would be no more roads!”

The ‘road argument’ is one of the most widely misused defenses of government… as if there are no private roads in the world.

Chile comes to mind as a great example– the country’s very modern toll-based highway system is privatized, and the operators have a huge profit incentive to keep the roads in top condition.

In fact, the 2 1/2 hour ride from Santiago to our farm is along one of these roads, and it’s smooth sailing the whole way.

A few years ago when Chile had its major earthquake, portions of the highway system were damaged. This meant that the operators were missing out on toll revenue… so they found a solution and were back up and running in a matter of days.

It was amazing how fast they were able to pull it off when so much of their profit was at stake.

When you think about it, just about everything that government provides either is already, or could be, provided by the private sector. That there is presently a private vessel docked at the International Space Station in Low Earth Orbit is the finest testament to this concept.

SpaceX has twice succeeded in launching a vessel into space in its 10-year history with a total of just $1 billion in funding, averaging to $100 million each year… roughly 5.6% of  NASA’s massive budget.

Then there are things like the court system… where the wheels of injustice grind away at such a pedestrian pace that it can take years for a case to even be heard, let alone resolved.

Enter 21st century technology: there’s a relatively new service called Judge.Me, an online arbitration service whose decisions are legally binding in 146 countries, from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe… and yes, including the US, Canada, and Western Europe.

At just $299, disputes can be settled in a matter of days, and the firm’s case history shows that 96% of all arbitration awards have been honored.

This is the sort of thing that makes me very excited– the private sector displacing the public sector. And there’s going to be a lot more of it coming.

The more insolvent governments become, the more they’re going to be forced to axe all the things they can’t afford. We’re already starting to see this in places from California to England that can no longer hide from their fiscal reality.

With the government monopoly out of the way, the private sector will mop up every service that it can turn a profit on– trash collection, security, fire, prisons, libraries, etc. This forces competition, higher quality service, and lower prices for everyone.

The people who protest against austerity, or think it’s a tragedy when a courthouse closes down due to budget constraints, are really missing the larger point: the sooner this corrupt house of cards collapses, the better off we’ll all be.

 


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Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:30 | Link to Comment EmileLargo
EmileLargo's picture

AMEN

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:55 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

I don't think the premise is incorrect.  However,  I think that for many years, the US has misappropriated and misallocated funds against the wishes of the electorate- see endless war and defense spending.   Taxation without representation!  Bitchez

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:12 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Nevermind the wars and defense spending. at least that created jobs. In the end of course the biggest paycheques are handed out to the oligarches as well.

How about the heist of the millenium? The fucking banker bailouts were a fucking farce!

They got so greedy, they didn't even take the detour and let the money trickle up through the normal channels. No, they couldn't be bothered and now you have Massa Benmosche sitting in Croatia and lecturing us peons from his quaint seaside retreat about a later retirement age.

Imagine how many fucking jobs could have been created (not saved!! bullshit) had the money gone to entrepreneurs or just at least an official debt jubilee to restart the game.

FUCK THIS SHIT!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment john39
john39's picture

but the wars are just more banker bailouts in another form.  you don't honestly argue that these wars benefitted hummanity in general, or even the U.S. citizen...  banker blood money, nothing more.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Wars are a racket. At least with a war the bankers are decent enough to trickle down some of the plunder. I'd never argue that wars benefit anything but the corporate bottom line.

My point was that the banker's bailouts went STRAIGHT into the banker's pockets. Nobody (excluding perhaps their political whores) was allowed in on that heist.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:41 | Link to Comment illyia
illyia's picture

So kill off the banksters: Make the 700+ Trillion in Over The Counter Off Balance Sheet Derivatives retroactively illegal.

Watch how fast the banksters (and their government accomplices) fall...

The OTC Off Balance Sheet derivatives are the problem. This is Fraud perpetrated by banksters with corpgov backing. Mark to Make Believe results in insane misallocation and ultimately the fleecing of the sheeple. The shysters know that the taxpayer can still be wrung out further and they won't come clean until there is nothing left.

As long as this charade is allowed to continue the burn will as well.

Expose the virtual-paper fakery for what it is - make the fraud illegal. Set the "free markets" free!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:58 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Yep, it's gotta be done. Probably need a junta to take over and reestablish some sense of law and order before handing power back to the people. It won't be easy and it will be painful. Very painful.

The OTC derivatives have been a banker's free for all gimmick to write themselves one hefty paycheque after another. The money is not real but their wealth certainly is and they use every opportunity to remind us of that, ie Benmosche's remarks.

What they don't seem to grasp is that we don't need them. They are obsolete and not only that, they've created themselves so much wealth that it is impossible for us to support them anylonger. Not even at 0.25%.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:03 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

WARs are the reasons why Americans pay less for gasoline, enjoy cars, McMansions in faraway suburbs, etc. It also stimulates demand by destroying infrastructure in foreign lands....

"Hey Iraq, we bombed your power plant. Looks like you are gonna need a new one. Why don't you pay for HAlliburton's services with 30 year cheaper-than-market-rate oil contracts?"

 

Banksters are the reason why investments happen in US....they not only fool Americans, but also foreign dictators, slave owners, and elites into investing into America instead of their own damn lands and people. CONgress knows this so they can't punish the thieves for stealing from foreigners, because they need to keep the CON game going. . .They need wall st. to hand over the bag of ponzi crap when the music stops. wallst. flips to insiders, insiders flip to American public, American public flip to foreign investors...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 23:08 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Wow Simon outdoes his stupidity once again.

"SpaceX has twice succeeded in launching a vessel into space in its 10-year history with a total of just $1 billion in funding, averaging to $100 million each year… roughly 5.6% of  NASA’s massive budget."??

So one of NASA's >>COMMERCIAL PARTNERS<<< manages to make spaceflight cheaper by... using technology developed by NASA! Shocker!

Next thing we'll hear a DOD technology has been handed over to the private sector for free and the genius entrepreneurs there managed to turn a profit with it!

And quick note on capitalism, it doesn't magically use competition to make things better and cheaper - profitable companies have traditionally relied on controlling the means of production and sourcing cheaper labour to operate machinery. This continues to be the case for most profitable areas of industry.

A different model would be something like wikipedia or the internet generally (the internet again being a taxpayer endeavour).?Let's face it - 90% of the posters on zero hedge will find their ability to work obsolete within the next 10 - 15 yrs, all replaced by technology innovations.

So what economic model do you favour in a scenario where you have no hope of finding a living-wage job?

Technology is removing jobs like the black plague and those jobs will never come back. The agriculture jobs never came back after the dust bowl, but there were other opportunities for work. That's over (for most).

Dismantling government in favour of corporate control of all infrastructure is not going to do many people favours.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:04 | Link to Comment Quisat_Sadarak
Quisat_Sadarak's picture

No need to kill anyone. Allow competing currencies and the bogus currencies will be exposed and shunned. Two willing private parties should be able to make a contract for payment in dollars or gold or wheat or whatever they choose. If dollars are bogus, they will not be used, and if dollars are sound, they will be used. Unfortunately, the current system has encumbered gold (and all precious metals) with taxes for exchange... which makes the transaction cost prohibitive.

Our constitution still states the government debts shall be paid in only gold and silver coin. Article 1 Section 10. We need to remind our fearless leaders of this fact. Remove transaction cost and we are on our way to sound money.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:08 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Competition is hinged around one directive: eliminate the concurrence.

The elimination act includes decreasing the competitiveness of the concurrence.

Currencies are allowed to compete.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Starving the beast by complete and total worldwide economic collapse is the only solution.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:15 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

or feed the beast so much junk that beast explodes and the results becomes obvious. - Sheila Blair approach.

 

Best way to have your kids stop begging for candy is to feed them a pound of candy every meal until they throw up.

 

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment Quisat_Sadarak
Quisat_Sadarak's picture

Implementing "Sound Money" is actually a very very good way to starve the beast.

No ability to print... no more sneaky hidden tax funding military industrial complexes and endless wars, and entitlement programs. Politicians would be forced to raise funds directly through up front taxation... and that's when the peasants will bring out the metaphorical (or physical) torches and the pitch forks! That would be a time to throw some popcorn on and watch the show!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:48 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

Nice Engrish.  WTF are you trying to say?  "Concurrence"? Wtf do you mean?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment squeal
squeal's picture

Created Jobs? WTF, man?

Millions of people have died, millions more displaced from their homes, but this is all OK because it created jobs?

Check yourself...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:47 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Be cool. You can't deny that much of the US economy directly DEPENDS on wars and the military industrial complex.

That is a fact and it should be accepted as truth. It's ugly but it's true.

Taking it one step further. Military equipment that's parked and not actively used (leave that to your imagination) is not breaking down and doesn't require repairs or replacement. Worse yet. Ammo that doesn't get shot, doesn't need to be reordered.

Again, how much of US GDP is directly DEPENDING on a WORKING military and what would happen if a President ordered all troops home and to go on leave. How many percentage points would the US fucking GDP drop as a result? Not to mention the increase in unemployment from active military and all related industries.

It's a fucking shit show and we're no better or more sophisticated than cavemen.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:29 | Link to Comment Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

All that weaponry that you say is SO important to the economy does what????

It kills innocents. There is absolutely NO need for young Americans to be all over the world. Power by force, what a joke.

I've got a better idea.....Bring them ALL home. Their job is to protect us here. Not there. "War on Terror" my ass. "Murder for the Bankers" is more like it.

This country was founded by good men with good intentions. All that good has been subverted.

This country has always had the potential to be the greatest ever. Even in the sorry state it is in now. We can better ourselves and spread that "love" abroad.

Not my line but a good one......We need a Department of Peace.

There are true good men (women) out there who can set the world straight. How many are in Washington right now???? Very few.

The evil ones and the bankers who control them must go. I care not the means in which it is done.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:45 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

"This country was founded by good men with good intentions."

 

Are you a product of American educational system?

 

Here is America's road to wealth:

  1. kill natives and take over land and force rest into middle of nowhere
  2. bring African slaves and force them to work on the land
  3. kill amongst each other to "free" slaves. (aka. civil war)
  4. Use "free" slaves to work in factories in middle of nowhere midwest.
  5. Use Japanese slaves on sugar plantations in Hawaii then take away their land and force them into concentration camps middle of nowhere
  6. Use Chinese slaves on building the rail road then ban them from owning land or marriage
  7. Use European immigrants to force them to settle in middle of nowhere and work the land
  8. Use German scientists to develop nuclear bomb and other military technologies to prep for imperialism.
  9. Colonize Phillipines
  10. Use Mexican illegal worker slaves to farm
  11. Use Chinese factory slaves for production work
  12. Use Jews to swindle capital all over the world
  13. Use Arab opression of their own kind to get cheap oil

 

American puts a women as statue of liberty, but once immigrants arrive, white capitalist father is there to exploit labor as much as he can before they revolt and move on to next batch of immigrant slaves suckers.

 

Only people who are allowed to rise up are the ones who sell themselves out to the man.

 

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 17:01 | Link to Comment Dr_Dazed
Dr_Dazed's picture

That's just incoherent.  Making a list of "bad" historical events and assertions about events doesn't make your point - if you have a point.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:49 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

Perhaps, but you should be thinking about what we could have instead if we spent the people's money on productive things instead of weaponry, or better yet, if we let the people spend it instead of the government!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:54 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

government is elected by her people.

 

stupid politicians mean stupid people.

 

Americans  in general are stupider than the elected politicians.

 

At least politicians are smart enough to get elected. Look at the voting public...

Remember less than majority even went to college!!!....they were so stupid they couldn't even get into podunk southern state university and to major in basketweaving.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:31 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

" Look at the voting public"  No.  There's nothing wrong with the voting public.  But that's what liberals think of their voting BLOCKS (and the entire population).  As fools to be endlessly lied to for Votes.  Guess what? The BS from the left is becoming so thick even fools can see it.  Information changes everything.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:45 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

BTW Genius, the word 'stupider' does not exist in the English language.  So give back all of those fake Trophys and go back to 3rd grade.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Only a slim majority of people actually vote and for good reason, a lot of people recognize it as a sham. I have faith in the majority of people making the correct decision on what happens to them locally so long as they have correct information and real options.

A lot of the problem in my mind is the very effective PR campaigns run on both sides which rarely have the electorates interests at heart but manage to divide and conquer. 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 09:18 | Link to Comment skipjack
skipjack's picture

WTF is "the people's money" ?  Do you mean theft by taxation?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:13 | Link to Comment DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

The trick the gov uses when asked (or forced) to be more austere is simple, and I've seen the wheel turn enough to know it's a planned pattern.

First cut the things people care about the most - fire, police, teachers, trash pickup.  Never, ever, cut things like how many secretaries the jerk in the corner office has.  Never cut the HVAC in a government building.  Never cut new office furniture for themselves. 

Never cut anything that they spend on themselves, or cronies.  Just the actual pointy end of the service spear.  Then people start saying "this isn't good, go ahead and take more of our money and give us what we want".  It works every time.

My county government just completely rebuilt the courthouse from the inside out - the most expensive possible way, then cut teachers etc, and raised taxes complaining they didn't have enough money...yet, there are 6 girls at the pay tax window in a county that only has 20k people total (much fewer taxpayers) and never has a line.  Sound familiar?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:23 | Link to Comment aheady
aheady's picture

Yep. Totally familiar.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 20:19 | Link to Comment Quisat_Sadarak
Quisat_Sadarak's picture

Yeah, in my area the thieving school district built a new district office complex on prime expensive ocean-front land because you can't get bull crap administrative paper pushing work done unless your are within 1000 yards of the ocean!

They don't even need 65% of it because the empty offices are up for lease, but no body wants to rent overpriced ocean front office space because the millions of cheap sqft avail inland is just fine thanks. Then these pieces of work declare they don't have enough money and are going to lay off teachers instead of legions of 6-figure-do-nothing useless administrators filling up their parking lots with their 600SL Mercs and 7-series BMWs. Then the friggin teachers go on strike and shut down the schools to protect their jobs, so now kids aren't even in school anymore.

The solution was to stick it to the taxpayer. WTF! True Story. It's all for the kids though. SSDD.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 21:00 | Link to Comment Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

It depends on where you live and who you vote for.  Cutting basic necessities is the usual establishment fear tactic.  Wisconsin voted for austerity twice and they're doing just fine without raising taxes.  During good times, people didn't bother holding politicians accountable.  So we did it to ourselves, fortunately our system allows for a course correction with the efforts of informed citizens.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 05:22 | Link to Comment Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Whatever austerity comes our way (USA), we won't be cutting drones. Some folks like to watch the attacks (prez?). I'm not sure what to think of this. Just posting it b/c I read it, and it's interesting. If anyone else has any feedback either way about the credibility of this piece or the intriguing (and sickening) thread, please, chime in. I'm all ears:

http://theulstermanreport.com/2012/06/04/white-house-insider-barack-obam...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

The premise is a totally false misinformation trick by the TPTB. The reason  that they can pull off this incredible lie is that the public doesn't realize that all the governments, small and large, are keeping two "sets of books".  Read up on the "Comprehensive Annual Financial Report", CAFR1.com, and discover how they play the sheep. They aren't going broke at all, they're simply preparing the suckers for the next round of increased taxes that, unsurprisingly, won't quite be enough for us to have all the benefits to which we have become accustomed. Don't fall for the same old DemRep baloney, in which both parties actually agree that we need increased taxes. California is pretending to be some $16 Billion in trouble when the reality is that they have hundreds of billions in off-books private investments. Anybody who believes the premise has simply swallowed the lie.

 

http://realitybloger.wordpress.com/2012/05/25/california-government-hide...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:52 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

You're crazy, dude.  There's no way these governments are actually solvent.  Government is about spending other people's money, not about saving and investing.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

He's not crazy. Did you even go read the article?

Hey....here's an article from TODAY:

Federal gov't sitting on $70 billion in unspent cash - Washington Times - http://bit.ly/LBSCle

Now...go read his linked article...the whole thing...and see how much cash California has laying around.
It's the same in every state. They take tax collected from "the people" and bank little chunks of it...for 70 odd years now.

They grow govt. way out of size then finally run out of cash in the "budget" account...then cry and threaten to cut services.
Raising taxes collected the next year is the only solution...of course.

Now what about the "other" tax cash squirreled away over those years? It's been quietly making them money.
Money they say is separate from "budget" cash and can't be used to cover the shortfall.
Then why was it collected in the first place? Who says they can make profits on the sly with the public's money?

We aren't talking tiny amounts...we are talking HUGE dollars.
This amounts to a gigantic money laundering operation of sorts.
Think about it. Or don't. It's still going on.

PS - wonder why jobs went to China etc.? Well, the govt's use the squirreled away cash to invest. Corps. are duty bound to get shareholders a whopping return on investment. So...biggest profits come with slave labor workforce.

Your US govts. (state, local) are literally one of the main drivers of offshoring. Using "your" tax money to boot. Nice.

Governments DO save and invest. ALL THE TIME. With YOUR cash. And there IS a paper trail.

 

 

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 02:16 | Link to Comment Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Or ask whistleblowers like Catherine Austin Fitts about the black budget.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:58 | Link to Comment withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

Like I have been preaching for 10+ years WITHNMEANS.   I am not a minimalist, however you can live quite well without the use of credit. Buy only the things you really need not want, only buy it if you have the money to. Then you will be amazed how much you can buy if you don't have all the debt interest payments. 

Add up all of the interest payments you make a year, then think of all of the crap you can buy!

 

CARRY ON !!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:13 | Link to Comment withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

Oh, and as I have said before on here "et al".  The Great Resetting is about to begin.

When you screw with the open market, you get to where we are now. Just like bumping up the minimum wage to get the economy moving "what a sham", this is a false market practice. The laws of the market forces will show you what rate you will be paid, I bet you would say nobody would work at McDonald's ever again, even at $2.00 an hour. Maybe, but the market forces will name a price "not the government".

Soon we all will be getting paid less, this is not totally bad, just as long as everything goes down in price "lock step".

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:00 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

You must be joking.  If you haven't heard of the term "crony capitalism," let me just assure you that privatized services will be in no way competitive, efficient, or good.  Once services are privatized, the looting really takes off.  Simple Simon is just a  bean brain right wing kook aid monger.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

Absolutely.  Handing a government monopoly over to a private one is not an improvement.

With the government monopoly out of the way, the private sector will mop up every service that it can turn a profit on– trash collection, security, fire, prisons, libraries, etc.

This part is certainly true.

This forces competition, higher quality service, and lower prices for everyone.

This does not follow.  Are there going to be rival trash companies bidding for your service, or is the mayor going to sell the concession to his buddy, who then hires the mayor after his term ends?  If you think the former, then you've probably never had cable TV service.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

Some of this COULD work out if true competition were allowed (a big if), but I kind of scratch my head at higher quality service in prison management. 

Does this mean less taxpayer dollars per head? Would the private system have a vested interest in more prisoners? Keeping individuals in prison longer to keep head count up?

Or would the prisoners be better served: softer beds, piped in music, better food?

And if you have private fire departments, if you forget to pay the annual fee, does the department respond and watch your house burn down (this happened last year some damn place with an all volunteer department)?

I can certainly imagine a number of government services that could be successfully outsourced, but some services just seem to overall be best left with the government, and watched by the taxpayers more carefully than what we have now.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:53 | Link to Comment SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

BINGO - competition is a must.  If not, then some form of regulation would be necessary although not ideal.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:43 | Link to Comment Umh
Umh's picture

Strange but true; I have seen competing trash pickup companies in 1 locality. It is sort of surprising considering how governments usually operate.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:59 | Link to Comment johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

n delaware...

five different trash companies service my neighborhood of 18 houses

no joke

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment PianoRacer
PianoRacer's picture

People, PLEASE!

A free market is NOT THE SAME THING As a government-granted MONOPOLY, backed by the GUNS of the STATE. Your mayor example is perfect, because you acknowledge that the problem is STILL the goddamn STATE!

If roads are privately owned and there is NO STATE MONOPOLY, and a given road-owner didn't keep it up or respond to his customers wants, he will MAKE LESS PROFIT, and thus be susecptible to being bought out by someone who can RESPOND BETTER TO THEIR CUSTOMERS NEEDS and MAKE MORE MONEY! That's how the free market works!

You need to get your shit together and do some fucking RESEARCH to UNDERSTAND what free markets really are, and to UNDERSTAND how the VIOLENCE of the STATE is ALWAYS the problem.

The worst part is that it doesn't fucking MATTER. Thinking that it is right and good that assholes in uniforms and robes and suits have the power to point fucking GUNS at us and steal our MONEY for MURDER and SPYING, to lock us in CAGES (more black men in cages than at any point in US history!) if we don't obey their reams and reams and REAMS of bullshit OPINIONS ("laws")... it's absolutely retarded, on every level, with only a cursory examination, if you know how to fucking THINK. A decade in state prison indoctrination centers ("schools") will cure you of THAT malady, unfortunately, and I see we've got a few of those types here at ZH.

Wake the fuck up people, PLEASE, or we will continue to live this statist nightmare FOREVER.

www.freedomainradio.com

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If roads are privately owned and there is NO STATE MONOPOLY, and a given road-owner didn't keep it up or respond to his customers wants, he will MAKE LESS PROFIT, and thus be susecptible to being bought out by someone who can RESPOND BETTER TO THEIR CUSTOMERS NEEDS and MAKE MORE MONEY! That's how the free market works!

_________________________________________

Due to space properties and zero sum game included in private property, there is de facto monopoly on the best route from one point to another point. You own it or not.

Infrastructures are a difficult thing in Smithian economics (the core of US economics), leading to the way that the best funding method is to get someone else pay them for you.

In many cases, there is an incentive to let infrastructures decay. This best interest is shared by the supply side against the demand side.

For example: water pipeline. If a customer wants water, he has to be pay for the delivered volume and the loss during water travel. Meaning that leaks in pipes gives extra profits.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:16 | Link to Comment ffart
ffart's picture

That last part makes absolutely no sense to me. Actually none of that makes any sense to me. 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:57 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

May want to do some work on your reading comprehension.  AnAnonymous is an asshole, but what he wrote makes sense.

The point is that there is a discrepancy between the services a provider BILLS FOR and the services the customer actually literally RECEIVES. 

There's currently law about many products/industries/etc that require concessions from providers because they've already demonstrated that they're perfectly willing to rip off the buyers. 

AnAnon's example of a water pipeline isn't so good, because it doesn't demonstrate the issue too well, but the idea is valid. 

Example: ISPs.  When the cable companies first got into the ISP business, they had a lot of problems.  Customers were paying for 24x7 access to the Internet, but weren't receiving it.  Sometimes it was because of infrastructure failure--if a cable goes down, the cable company (obviously) can't provide access until that's repaired.  But customers used to be billed for their service AS IF they'd received a full month of access to the Internet.

In that environment, the cable company has legitimate profit incentive NOT to fix an outage too quickly--any time you can bill the same rate for services you don't have to provide, you can increase your profit by using the money you didn't spend on repair and maintenance on expanding territory, trading financial products, or lobbying lawmakers.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:11 | Link to Comment ffart
ffart's picture

Re: your example. I've never heard of a fucking SLA that guaranteed unflappable, 100% uptime and the ISP is still paying to maintain their cabling and the contract they have with their own ISP whether you have a connection to them or not. If they lose your business to some other company they don't recoup the costs they incur connecting you to their network either.

There are concessions in contract law because it's physically impossible to guarantee with 100% certainty that some utility being passed to your home will never fail. I will leave you to ponder why this is, it is a physical phenomenom and it is not some product of our exploitive capitalistic economy. If they really are billing you for a service which they are intentionally not providing to it's fraud and they'll lose their business and probably get time in federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison for it to boot.

There would be a greater economic incentive for a monopoly to provide no service to you than to intentionally provide degraded service to you just to collect some imaginary vig.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:16 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   There would be a greater economic incentive for a monopoly to provide no service to you than to intentionally provide degraded service to you just to collect some imaginary vig.

Why would you pretend not to understand what he was writing?  Obviously you do.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:54 | Link to Comment ffart
ffart's picture

Ok fine. I think a better example of this type monopolistic behavior would be the public school system. We spend more money per capita on public schooling than a lot of other countries but students but we've consistently been ranking near the bottom in terms of standardized test scores, so clearly the public school system has been providing inadequate service. They then use this underperformance as a justification to ask for more funding via levys and tax hikes. To make things worse, in most areas you are paying for a K-12 education whether or not you intend to have kids enrolled in it.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 20:27 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Education is always an interesting case.  Clearly we're not doing it very well, and EVEN SO we see "products" of the public education system becoming huge success stories all the time.

A return to a completely privatized system for education would guarantee that a significant percentage of the population gets completely arbitrary education, if any at all, which has been the case throughout most of human history.

I admit I find it hard to imagine the benefits that would obtain from increasing the percentage of people who've never been introduced to reading, but I'm interested in what you think they might be.  Which are the best examples of successful societies/countries/whatever that have no public educational system at all?

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 09:28 | Link to Comment skipjack
skipjack's picture

Read history.  WHy did we go from a literacy rate of 98% in the 1700s to a literacy rate of barely 60% today ?  How did we ever learn to read without public schools ????? Oh, quelle horreur !

 

For your edification (and that of everyone else here: The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto, and

The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America b Charlotte Iserbyt.  Also, look at the youtube videos of Iserbyt on The Miseducation of America.

 

Then, after absorbing all that, come back here and tell us how "necessary" public education is to a free America.  You've bought into the lie and accepted the statists' premise.  Educate yourself out of the Matrix.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

    a literacy rate of 98% in the 1700s

Forget it, man, you're fucking crazy.  "We" didn't have a literacy rate of 98% in the 1700s.

The "mean" people didn't have much need for reading in the colonial days.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

education is something that can allow for competition, like the Learn Liberty videos show, how you can go to public school or get a voucher for a charter school or private school, or get cash to buy materials for home schooling.

The things that should be government provided are things that are Natural Monopolies; things where it does not make sense for there to be competition. The most commonly used example is the power grid; it does not make sense for there to be three overlapping power grids so you can choose which one to hook up to.

This doesn't mean electricity needs to be monopolized; production can be decentralized and competitive, but distribution should be owned by the State (whether its actually the State or Federal or Municipality or whatever) since it is a non-competitive resource.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:40 | Link to Comment skank
skank's picture

Externalities??? ...and, head gasket go pop

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Biosci
Biosci's picture

If not the state, then some other actor with more guns and/or money than you.  The libertarian fantasy will always be just that:  a fantasy.  Sorry to be such a cynic, but I'm afraid all of human history is on my side of this argument.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

I think you may be confusing Libertarians with Anarchists. Or classing all Libertarians together rather than understanding that is a top level with lower level ideaologies below it.

Many Libertarians are in favor of the minimalist State, that still provides military, police and courts. Whether that military be a reservist militia, or what, there is still protection from aggressiontheftbreach of contract, and fraud.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:10 | Link to Comment smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

every system, every law, every regulator, etc. all have the same fatal flaw...man...

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:11 | Link to Comment SamAdams
SamAdams's picture

Well said. The law is designed to plunder the populus, while the banker made corporations establish monopolies and political favoritism thereby weeding out "free market competition". 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:44 | Link to Comment LvM
LvM's picture

Even crony capitalist 'privatisation' is better than government monopoly (look at how inefficient government monopoly services are relative to private services, even in this crony economy). But it's my guess the author means 'privatisation' in the sense of 'no government meddling'.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:21 | Link to Comment TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

I'm saddened by the fact you got so many upvotes for that bs.

 

You don't understand free markets and you don't understand capitalism. "crony capitalism" is a known contradiction and flawed term. Capitalism can't ever be crony because then it isn't capitalism anymore. You really need to rethink everything you know. I suggest do some reading.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Lost My Shorts
Lost My Shorts's picture

I understand free markets much better than you.  Free markets are first cousin of the winged horse.  Beautiful to contemplate but they don't exist, never did, never will.  Here is how privatization goes, 100% guaranteed:

-- cronies who paid the way of current politicians get the concessions.

-- they offer bad services for high prices to a helpless public.

If you want to get some idea of how efficient and competitive private services are, look no further than healthcare in the USA.  We pay twice as much in aggregate as most other countries for a system that leaves many people out.  Developed countries with public systems get better results for much lower cost.

You are the one who needs to read more, and I would recommend the following as a starter:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/rick-perry-the-best-little-who...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:28 | Link to Comment TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

Crony capitalism is poorly named because it's not really capitalism at all. It's more like socialism in reverse. Take from the poor and give to the rich. Crony capitalism depends on government. It only exists because the government exists and has the ability to take from the poor through taxation and inflation and give to the rich through bailouts and subsidies. If that government collapses, what you're left with is capitalism and all of the aforementioned problems vanish faster than Larry Summers in a broccoli-eating contest.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:08 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Capitalism is only capitalism when you take from the poor and/or the rich and give to the middle class.

US citizen style.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:18 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous, dropping turds left and right, said:

Capitalism is only capitalism when you take from the poor and/or the rich and give to the middle class.

No, that is crapitalism, but hey, you're the fecalphiliac.

US citizen style.

Also known as French Indo-Chinese Antarctic AnAnonymous citizenism style. All of it a pitiable fantasy inside the hallucinating brain of AnAnonymous.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:22 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

You should propagate your new fantasy more vocally, more actively. I cant wait to see the result.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:30 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous, slipping in his own poo, said:

You should propagate your new fantasy more vocally, more actively. I cant wait to see the result.

So you can shout more citizenism at it and then run away, again?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:11 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

"the sooner this corrupt house of cards collapses, the better off we’ll all be."

BULLFUCKINGSHIT!

You can not prove that statement to be a fact.

The reality is for many if not all a collapse would be a complete disaster.

And we have no idea what would follow will be better. It could be far worse.

Even you guns and gold assholes will be fucked.

Just for once wil you fucking idiots who support claims think things through. Think about everything which be gone, think about everything that will never return, think about the fact you have zero idea if your rescources or skills would actually save your life.

Better yet, will anything save your CHILDRENS lives? Appendix bursts, who will operate? Will those stale antibiotics, assuming you have any, stop the infection?

Only an idiot wishes hell for everyone.



Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:21 | Link to Comment Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

So government is really...for the children? Like, Iraqi children, too?

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment Caggge
Caggge's picture

Just for once wil you fucking idiots who support claims think things through. Think about everything which be gone, think about everything that will never return, think about the fact you have zero idea if your rescources or skills would actually save your life.

 

Things that will be gone and never return are things that never should have been. Anything that is gone and is necessary will return cuz there is a demand for it. If your resources or skills won't allow you to live or save your life....maybe Darwin is trying to tell you something.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:27 | Link to Comment aheady
aheady's picture

Well, you're awfully bold.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 01:06 | Link to Comment Caggge
Caggge's picture

Nature can be a bold. There is only one best way to do something and nature has figured it out.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:36 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Caggge

You are one of the fucking idiots aren't you.

Explain to me how dead people return. The ones who die because there are no anit biotics?


Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:29 | Link to Comment Caggge
Caggge's picture

Ashes to ashes and dust to dust. Animals that aren't strong enough to survive.....shouldn't survive. That is the story of our planet. It worked for several billion years....it has been tested.

 

ps.

I thought you would be an expert on how dead people return because obviously you are dead from the neck up.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 22:42 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Because it can't be said too many times....Fuck Off Gully Fool.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment Caggge
Caggge's picture

Every community has its town fool. Gully is the village idiot. The one thing I don't understand is why Gully isn't working in Washington DC. It seems that is where all the village idiots have their seminars for training.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:38 | Link to Comment centurain
centurain's picture

So Mr. Black cannot prove "we" will be better off in a financial collapse and to show this you rail off a litany of unprovable scenarios highlighted with capatalizing "childrens".  Please sir show me the proof that you possess which shows that when tyrannical governments fail it is hell for everyone.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:44 | Link to Comment Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

My thoughts exactly.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:18 | Link to Comment TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Another clueless one. You clearly do not get it. The sad thing is that you are in fact representing the average American (idiot) ...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Fuck Off Gully Fool.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Zionist Jew
Zionist Jew's picture

I'm excited because it much easier to make $ in doom times.  Not to mention the tremendous opportunity to seize more control, and set new policy, inherent in crisis times.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:51 | Link to Comment hansg
hansg's picture

May I challenge a few premises?

1. Voters know _damn well_ how the government can be scaled back. It could, for example, stop giving free money to people in other countries! My country (Netherlands) is driven ever deeper into debt by our government's unstoppable desire to shovel borrowed(!) money all over Europe and Africa. There would be no need to borrow if it stopped doing that.

2. The roads argument is far better discredited by observing that roads require only a very tiny fraction of the government budget. In the case of the Netherlands this is about 2.5 billion euro, out of a budget of 257 billion.

3. It is also a bad example because generally speaking, there is no competition for roads (how many roads can you take from Santiago to your farm? Precisely one, right? What if there are potholes that could swallow a car? You would still pay, your only other choice is to never go home again. The private company can and _will_ maximize profit by minimizing repairs. This is not anti-capitalist ranting, this is a simple observation of reality everywhere across the globe).

4. Space has launched two rockets at a price of $1 billion (your figures). That averages out at $500 million per launch, same as the space shuttle. The cargo capacity offered (450kg vs. 22000kg) was about 50 times less though. Please explain: how has private industry done any better?

5. You'd see the court system run by a private company!? How does that work in, let's say, the case where a major shareholder commits a murder? How about competition: could I start a competing "justice, inc." and entice people into my court by offering harsher punishments at lower prices? How would I enforce those punishments? Have you given this _any_ thought at all?

6. Judge.me is a private entity with no legal power whatsoever. If you commit a crime, judge.me can send you "legally binding" documents until they go blue in the face, and nothing will ever come of it since you have the option of ignoring them. If you think I'm wrong, feel free to demonstrate the powers of judge.me to right _any one_ of the wrongs reported here on ZH on a daily basis. Just one!

7. Private sector displacing the public sector is only a shift in power. The power will still be there though, and it will still corrupt. Rule by corporations is also known as "fascism", and it is by no means better than rule by a democratic state - or even by a mockery of a democratic state. It only favors different groups.

I do agree that our current system has gone past its sell-by date. The way forward is not by handing power out to corporations though; it appears our only options are accepting the life of slaves - or tearing the whole thing down and rebuilding from scratch.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment thren
thren's picture

4. Space has launched two rockets at a price of $1 billion (your figures). That averages out at $500 million per launch, same as the space shuttle. The cargo capacity offered (450kg vs. 22000kg) was about 50 times less though. Please explain: how has private industry done any better?

That is inaccurate. You have completely made up the statistic. your entire arguement relies upon. This is only permitted at the FED or political speeches. I assume you work in government or academic economics.

The shuttle cost, factoring in development costs, $1.5 billion per flight. It also got to amoritize the costs over 135 flights.

Despite you unfairly amoritzing SpaceX's developmental costs over only 2 flights, SpaceX still is x3 more efficent then NASA. Do the cost per launch calculation after 135 falcon 9 launches. SpaceX will likely be closer to x30 more efficent then x3.  

It should also be noted that SpaceX has spent most of the cash on developmental costs in late 2000 dollars. NASA spent dollars throughout the 80s and 90s which were worth much more comparitively. The $1.5 Billion a flight figure is NOT adjusted to present dollars. 

"The analysis reveals that, as of the end of 2010, the space agency had spent more than $192 billion on the fleet since its inception in 1971, researchers said. That suggests that by the end of this year, which includes three more shuttle missions, NASA will have spent $196.5 billion on its storied space shuttle program."

http://www.space.com/11358-nasa-space-shuttle-program-cost-30-years.html

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:22 | Link to Comment Rentier
Rentier's picture

I don't disagree that the shuttle program was huge money black hole.  But, the cost of SpaceX so far isn't totally true.  

1. using govt. paid for owned and maintained land.

2. using existing developed and paid for govt. infrastructures (aka, the pad, buildings, technology...tracking, guidance systems etc.)

3. Decades of govt R&D that SpaceX is using.

Like saying it's cheap to build and launch a ship when someone else paid for the shipyard, dock, tools and infrastructure...Add those cost in and get back with us on your X cost factor.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:03 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

It may be an apples to oranges comparison, but do you truly believe that if both SpaceX and government were given the same resources, SpaceX would be less efficient than government???????

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment hansg
hansg's picture

Have I complete made up the statistic? Let's have a look at the facts:

- SpaceX has launched two rockets: fact supplied by article, not checked by me.

- Total cost of $1 billion: fact supplied by article, not checked by me.

- $1 billion divided by two: $500 million. Try your Windows calculator if you cannot work it out on your own.

- Average cost of launching a shuttle: $450 million according to NASA website, which I trust more than some random argumentative dude who needs an ad-hominem to support his 'facts'.

- Freight capacity of SpaceX: 450kg; weight transported during last launch.

- Freight capacity of shuttle: 22700kg; weight according to wikipedia.

- 22700 divided by 450: about 50. Again, try the Windows calculator if you cannot manage.

- _Advertized_ launch costs of Falcon 9: $27 million. That's 17 times cheaper than a shuttle, for 50 times less weight, i.e. after so many launches it is still less efficient by a factor of 3.

You are confusing development costs and recurring costs. You are also wrong about the development price of the shuttle; the figure you gave is already recalculated for todays dollar value. Even if we do amortize that value, SpaceX and the shuttle come out at roughly the same price after 135 launches, except it is with a far less versatile vehicle.

Finally, you complete misstood my argument. It is this: replacing the tyranny of government by the tyranny of private corporations does not win us ANYTHING. The SpaceX thing is just a minor supporting argument to that. 

Oh, and for those who love private industry so much: $390 million of that $1 billion was public funding through NASA. Kind of puts the whole "industry can do it on their own" in a different perspective...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

just looking at payload:

$450 million / 22700 Kg = $19 823 .79 per Kg

$27 million / 450 Kg = $60,000 per Kg

So unless the shuttle is going up partially empty, the shuttle is more economical. However, having both would provide flexibility for shipping smaller payloads vs larger ones.

Personally, I wish the Mossad had not murdered Gerard Bull, and Saddam Hussein had been able to build a cannon-fired rocket to get 200 Kg payloads into space at a cost of ~$600 per Kg. Who knows, maybe someone will someday. Good for anything other than living organisms, due to the g-Forces.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment spine001
spine001's picture

Please read the history of the 1600s and 1700s in the UK, everything was private, even police, prisons, detectives, etc. The distortions that this introduces to Society are for all to see. It also makes for very interesting reading. Specially when you see that King's heads rolled more than once for stealing the Gold from the traders before banks were created.

None after banks! Interesting isn't it?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:31 | Link to Comment Jahbulon
Jahbulon's picture

I second that!  Amen!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

Pay for government services? Outrageous!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:36 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

My favorite part is when governments declare tax collection as revenue.  As if we are their product cost centers instead of what it really is.

 

The minus sign on a balance sheet and a hazard.

 

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:38 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

"Government service" is up there, too...

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:51 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

Government tax takings is a burden on a capitalist system.

That government twists its revenue  into a good thing is a distortion.

Today's United States is hardly capitalist anymore.


Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Manthong

"Today's United States is hardly capitalist anymore."

FREE MARKET: That condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion.

THE STATE: That institution which interferes with the Free Market through the direct exercise of coercion or the granting of privileges (backed by coercion).

TAX: That form of coercion or interference with the Free Market in which the State collects tribute (the tax), allowing it to hire armed forces to practice coercion in defense of privilege, and also to engage in such wars, adventures, experiments, “reforms”, etc., as it pleases, not at its own cost, but at the cost of “its” subjects.

PRIVILEGE: From the Latin privi , private, and lege , law. An advantage granted by the State and protected by its powers of coercion. A law for private benefit.

USURY: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group monopolizes the coinage and thereby takes tribute (interest), direct or indirect, on all or most economic transactions.

LANDLORDISM: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group “owns” the land and thereby takes tribute (rent) from those who live, work, or produce on the land.

TARRIFF: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which commodities produced outside the State are not allowed to compete equally with those produced inside the State.

CAPITALISM: That organization of society, incorporating elements of tax, usury, landlordism, and tariff, which thus denies the Free Market while pretending to exemplify it.

CONSERVATISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which claims allegiance to the Free Market while actually supporting usury, landlordism, tariff, and sometimes taxation.

LIBERALISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which attempts to correct the injustices of capitalism by adding new laws to the existing laws. Each time conservatives pass a law creating privilege, liberals pass another law modifying privilege, leading conservatives to pass a more subtle law recreating privilege, etc., until “everything not forbidden is compulsory” and “everything not compulsory is forbidden”.

SOCIALISM: The attempted abolition of all privilege by restoring power entirely to the coercive agent behind privilege, the State, thereby converting capitalist oligarchy into Statist monopoly. Whitewashing a wall by painting it black.

ANARCHISM: That organization of society in which the Free Market operates freely, without taxes, usury, landlordism, tariffs, or other forms of coercion or privilege. “Right” anarchists predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to compete more often than to cooperate; “left” anarchists predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to cooperate more often than to compete.

Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson, The Illuminatus! Trilogy

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:41 | Link to Comment Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Douche Nozzel: A male who acts and looks like an utter jackass. Someone who transcends common insults to the point that simply calling him "jackass" or "douchebag" will no longer do. Much more offensive than simply calling someone a douchebag.   ~Urban Dictionary

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:48 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

I hate semantics.

I won’t take issue with the definitions above - they sound reasonable to me.

I’d bet these guys would define “gay” as spirited and  jovial.. in which case I would be defined as a gay anarchist.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:52 | Link to Comment DosZap
DosZap's picture

As for the claim that privatized toll roads are well maintained, we have privatized toll roads and many other kinds of infrastructure in the US, and nearly all of it is marginally to poorly maintained as the owner tries to squeeze every last penny of profit out of it.  Much of it also has charges several times what it had before the privatization, for the same profit motive.

Only problem with this is the taxpayer/state pays for the construction, and then they privatize, and WE the people get to pay for it in perpetuity.

 I call it getting screwed yet again by our SO called leaders.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:17 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Only problem with this is the taxpayer/state pays for the construction, and then they privatize, and WE the people get to pay for it in perpetuity.

___________________________

Infrastructures are a well known issue in Smithian economics.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:47 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Service is a term farmers use for breeding cattle. Now you know what government means when they say they are servicing you.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:34 | Link to Comment piceridu
piceridu's picture

I just got home and happened to be reading an interview from I think two weeks ago from Christine Lagarde, the IMF Chief; regarding calling Greeks tax dodgers. She said they should take responsibility and stop trying to avoid taxes. It’s not just Lagarde trying to expand the divide and conquer meme to vilify “every tax dodger”, I hear it from every politician and paid MSM shill from New Jersey to California.

My wife just got a ticket a few days ago for rolling a stop sign because she wanted to get off a busy street to take a cell phone call and she wanted to do the “right” thing but as she got off the main blvd and drove down the deserted ramp, she very slowly rolled a stop sign, turned the corner and pulled over to take the call. Out of nowhere, two SUV’s converge on her; like a spider lying in wait for the insect to trigger in the web… and all because she wanted to do the fucking “right” thing.

Instead of being neighborly, the cop gave her a rash of shit and then said he was doing her a favor and would only write her up for one thing…rolling the stop sign, as she pleaded with this dim-witted, bored out of his fucking mind, itching to Tase, glorified mall cop, little did she know, she rolled the stop sign on “Federal” land and as a result not only was it a $150 money grab, but these were Homeland Security traffic cops. Homeland -fucking-Security?!!! These newly anointed Patriot Act beneficiaries demanded to see her papers (Social Security card) and took down her SS number because she happened to come to rest across the street from a Veteran’s hospital, Federal fucking government land.

Btw, you can eat a fucking 3 pound burrito and rip open 10 packets of hot sauce and pour them with your teeth while steering with your knees, you can read the goddamn NY Times while driving, feed your fucking toy poodle on your lap while driving, you can clean your floor mats, polish your shoes and paint your toe nails while driving, but you can’t hold your cell phone while on speakerphone.. Fucking brilliant.

So pay and pay your fucking taxes? …for what?

So they can create another Federal, State, Local bureaucratic, groping quagmire of jackbooted thugs to, “protect and serve” us? So Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi and every other bloodsucking corrupted Senator, Congress person, government teat sucker can have the storied pension, job security, 5 star medical care for life and live like royalty off the present and future productive power of every man, women, child and use you like a disposable battery?

So postal carriers, librarians, street cleaners can retire with transferable $200,000 annual pensions, first class medical bennies and travel the fucking world over ten times on our dime for forever and a day?

Or so DMV, TSA, NSA, CIA, Firefighters, Sheriffs, Highway Patrol, County Clerks, IRS agents, Franchise Tax Board leaches, meter maids, kindergarten teachers, just to name a few, can suck productive citizens dry and extort every last red cent we have so we can have the privilege of paying for their inflated homes and phony mortgages, auto loans, iShit, Samsung 70” big screens, 8 week vacations, 30 paid holidays, early retirement , and phony disability claims?

How about paying for Desmond Hatchett, the mother fucker (literally) who has 30 kids with 11 different mothers and only pays a dollar fucking forty-nine a month in child support and knowing that you’ll have to pay the 11 baby mamma’s fucking bill for 30 fucking kids for 18 years while you struggle to find the extra $69 to buy a Costco bike for your own kid?

How about paying your “fair share” so they can build and deploy unmanned drones; let them loose domestically while some glorified DMV, zit faced, dweeb, sitting 3000 miles away with a joy stick, takes pictures and video of your tired wife and 12 year old daughter, sun bathing on your 15 fucking square foot patio while you smile for the camera on your only day off in a month?

I don’t know, maybe so seventeen and eighteen old, poor, indoctrinated, ignorant, MTV watching, saggy pant -assbearing, public school drop-out teens can go off and get their arms and legs blown off or die for propaganda, lies and corporate profits…while we celebrate a fucking fake Edward Bernay’s inspired holiday to thank these poor young souls, not for their sacrifice and service for upholding their oath and promise to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, but for holding a fucking Chinese factory made red, white and blue dildo and following mindless orders to ass rape poor brown sheep and yak herders who just happen to be herding above oceans of BP, Shell, Chevron/Exxon black fucking gold.

No, I say: Fuck you Christine Legarde, Fuck you Mario Monti, Jose Barosso, Herman Van Rompuy, Fuck you Ben Bernanke, Tim Geithner, Janet Yellen, Barney Frank, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Joe Lieberman, John Boehner, George Bush(es)’, every Patriot Act signer, and also the rest of you radar gun holding, ticket writing, permit/license granting, gun toting , badge holding, government teat sucking, jack booted, tax collecting racketeers, Fuck you! If I missed anybody, fuck you too! And yes, Fuck you too Mr. President.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment piceridu
piceridu's picture

Sorry for the long rant, I lost my fucking mind.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

I think you *found* your mind. Wish other people did, too.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Overfed
Overfed's picture

I just wish I could give you more than one up arrow. That was a thing of beauty.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:25 | Link to Comment obejoyful
obejoyful's picture

You said what most good and responsible people want to say but do not.  I applaude your rant, you should be proud of this and walk with you your head high

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment jmaloy5365
jmaloy5365's picture

Seems to be all there....

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:24 | Link to Comment Blackfriday
Blackfriday's picture

Best rant ever.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 00:00 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Joe Stack would have taken pause.

ZH Hall of Fame

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:48 | Link to Comment Sockeye
Sockeye's picture

Excellent rant!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:12 | Link to Comment Silver Pullet
Silver Pullet's picture

Normally I give up on long posts half way through.

Loved every fucking word.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment Flash007
Flash007's picture

Hats off to you sir. If there was a 100 x up arrow I would certainly give it to you.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Coffin Dodger
Coffin Dodger's picture

Epic.

Fri, 06/08/2012 - 04:34 | Link to Comment Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Hat tip mate.  Fucking spot on analysis of where we are right fucking now in this godforsaken shit whole rockerfeller run world.  When the collapse comes, as it will, god help the bastards who placed humanity in the grip of these paracitical fucking theives.

BTW, fuck you NSA, and fuck you more GCHQ, the world is waking up and this ZH'er post above sums it up nice and plain.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Another national bankruptcy?

pods

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:33 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

The troops will come home when their paychecks bounce.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:38 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

That's the problem. Those who are/were dependent on the system will fight to keep it or fight to reboot it. This doesn't end without bloodshed.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:40 | Link to Comment machineh
machineh's picture

Arm the teachers unions! /sarc

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:08 | Link to Comment RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Arm the teachers unions.  Seriously.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:49 | Link to Comment LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

This doesn't end without bloodshed.

No dispute between a debtor and a creditor ends without bloodshed (unless its a small amount ofcourse).

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

dwdollar

You don't get it do you, people need structure.

Any given group will create a pecking order. Top to bottom, power to slave.

Tear one system down another just like it arises.

That's human nature.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:46 | Link to Comment Little John
Little John's picture

When that happens the chickens will come home too.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:46 | Link to Comment TJ00
TJ00's picture

... and there will be nothing between them and the criminals that caused this mess, karma will be a bitch in tactical gear.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:59 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

That's not what happened in Moldova, when the Soviet troops there quit getting paid.

"Let's see.  Should we all go home, turn in our hardware, and go starve with our parents and girlfriends?  Or should we just ... set up shop right here?"

When the US fails, I wonder if the overseas parts of the military might just become  ... spinoffs.  I don't know the history well enough, but I bet that happened with Roman garrisons.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:32 | Link to Comment TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

But what about all those Congressional pensions???

 

:D

 

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:34 | Link to Comment Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

You usually hear heavy objections from people like– “What about roads? If we start cutting budgets, there would be no more roads!”

Wow, a strawman of a strawman.  No, I've never heard anyone dumb enough to make such a stupid objection.  I guess I run with a different crowd than Simon.

As for the claim that privatized toll roads are well maintained, we have privatized toll roads and many other kinds of infrastructure in the US, and nearly all of it is marginally to poorly maintained as the owner tries to squeeze every last penny of profit out of it.  Much of it also has charges several times what it had before the privatization, for the same profit motive.

I suspect Simon would be in favor of for-profit parenting - keep a detailed time and expense list of whatever you spend on your kids while they are minors, then present it to them at 18 years as a bill, with interest accruing from each expenditure at the highest rate South Dakota would allow.  Sounds like paradise to me.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:40 | Link to Comment Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Whether or not privately-run roads actually "work" is irrelevant.  It's about freedom, personal freedom.

The main point is: why should I - and millions of other involuntary taxpayers - be forced at gunpoint to pay for services and facilities used largely by others...?

It's all about COERCION and "the violence inherent in the system."  THAT'S why any government bankruptcy is...liberating!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:35 | Link to Comment Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

and "the violence inherent in the system."

Watery tarts distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

"...and supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony..."

"SHUT UP!"

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment PianoRacer
PianoRacer's picture

FUCKING RIGHT! It doesn't fucking MATTER how we pick the COTTON after we FREE THE SLAVES because it's fucking EVIL to POINT GUNS at people and TELL THEM WHAT TO DO (like, you know... rape?)

FREE THE SLAVES

END THE STATE

Sorry for the caps, I just get excited talking about FREEDOM! Kreditanstalt, YOU are one of the ONLY ones here who is making the argument that will set us FREE! Argument from MORALITY can change the WORLD, argument from EFFECT won't change SQUAT, even though it is true that we will be MUCH better off without the STATE standing around every corner, pointing GUNS at us!

We have to stop treating our children like slaves, too. The state treats us like we treat our kids, and that abuse breaks our minds and turns us into perpetual children. The state is parents for adults, and we DON'T NEED IT - NEVER DID!

Don't believe me? Think about it.

"FOR ZE MOTHERLAAAAND!"
"Founding Fathers"
Birthers = "You're not my REAL dad!"
etc.

Philosoophy is the answer. The internet is the answer.

www.freedomainradio.com is the answer. I'm telling you guys, we're figuring this shit out over there. I respectfully invite you to join us. Philosophy can change your life - it sure as shit changed mine. But lets be honest; philosophy is truth and truth is freedom, and some people just aren't ready to be free. I get it. Bookmark us, and come by when you're ready. All this is just a sideshow to the main event. This digital Gutenberg on which we are all conversing has opened more doors than most know. You guys are smart; you found ZH. Do you think you could get this kind of high-grade radioactive truth if not for the Tubes?

No fucking way.

So move to the next step. Fuck the economy, we all know it's days are numbered. Keep pursuing truth. Expand your horizons. Finance is great, but there is so much more.

 

"Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." -Oliver Wendell Holmes, US author & physician (1809 - 1894) 

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 15:15 | Link to Comment Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Well, with everyone around here so busy bashing "the rich" they forget that the governments - not the banks - are the real instruments of control...

They sure love their governments on ZH.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:42 | Link to Comment Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

My pet peeve is the income tax which is evil on so many levels.  The standard refrain I've heard from eliminating it is the same stupid roads argument.  My rebuttle is the gas tax which amounts to a user fee.  The problem is that a lot of governments put the proceeds into the general fund instead of allocating it back to road maintenance.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment vh070
vh070's picture

There is a place for government and a place for private enterprise.  Let's not let the irresponsibility of parts of each, not to mention that of voters, condemn the lot.  Freedom requires intelligence, vigilance and activism to denounce the corrupt and incompetent until they are removed from any position of responsibility.  If you can't manage that then prepare to get served your just desserts.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:32 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Americans once showed the world how there could be a country without a king.  At the time, that was inconceivable to most people.

A little later, monarchists said "There is a place for monarchy, and a place for democracy."

Now you say "there is a place for government."  I say no.  The idea is inherently evil.

Next, Americans will show the world how there can be a country without a government.  Life without coercion.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:15 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Not sure what palnet you live on, but it won't happen on earth as long as humans are in control. 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:17 | Link to Comment Belarusian Bull
Belarusian Bull's picture

Shouldn't it be Mad MaRx?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment Lost Word
Lost Word's picture

Privatization of a Government monopoly is a huge mistake. Without competition, the private crooks will raise the prices for service to a very profitable level. A recent story about Chicago privatized parking monopoly indicated parking rates incresed 400 percent and the profit rate was 75 percent. Privatized toll roads in Chicago and Indiana also greatlly increased their toll rates, with no recourse to Government democracy control.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:36 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

And under government democracy control -- how much did those things cost?   You know -- governments tend to hide costs by spreading them around quietly.

And why would you replace a government-owned monopoly with a privately-owned and government-sponsored monopoly ?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment Umh
Umh's picture

Governments frequently outsource some their monopolies like toll roads, trash pickup, IT services and even rescue squads. They do it either because they are stupid, naive or providing revenue to their friends.

It almost never occurs to government that one of their monopolies could be done away with altogether.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:37 | Link to Comment Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Some of the examples I was thinking of.  Also water companies almost anywhere.  The privately owned Ambassador Bridge between Detroit and Windsor, Canada.  Privately financed red light cameras where they shorten the yellow light, move the stop line farther back from the intersection and then extort funds from hapless drivers.

There is a place for government and a place for private enterprise.  There are few situations where both are equally good solutions to a need.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:36 | Link to Comment Clampit
Clampit's picture

Government as a parental relationship?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:35 | Link to Comment Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Only if the banksters grip on debt-fueled money creation can be destroyed at the same time would such a thing produce the desired result. Otherwise, the inflation-driven transfer of wealth to the financial class continues. Ergo, FUCK BERNANKE!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:36 | Link to Comment praps
praps's picture

"This is the sort of thing that makes me very excited– the private sector displacing the public sector. And there’s going to be a lot more of it coming."

 

Yeah, the whole country ownd by the 0.1%, not just most of it.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:42 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

What you fail to understand is that the .01% CANNOT do what they do without government backing them.

In a truly free market, they would NEVER be able to do it. Period.

 

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 12:57 | Link to Comment squeal
squeal's picture

What you fail to understand is that the government IS the .01%.

Your understanding of the situation is exactly backwards. The driving power of government comes from the money that funds the elections. Any politician who does not suck the dick of the corporate/banking boss is quickly shown the door. See Dennis Kucinich, or for the inverse, see Scott Walker.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:11 | Link to Comment RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

The .01% are in bed with the Fed.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment Gringo Viejo
Gringo Viejo's picture

Dennis Kucinich: A man, who during a democratic presidential debate in 2004, held up a pie chart. Unfortunately, the debate was being broadcast only on the radio. A man of the people indeed!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:46 | Link to Comment turbomango
turbomango's picture

pies come in many sizes. Malthusian eugenist socialists - of all pursuations like Cass Sunstein, Holdren, etc... "democrats" and "nations" all over the world, apparently think there is only one size... small and very limited; they want the general population to believe earth's resources are not enough to go around, so their solution is to get rid (kill) most of the humans bcs there isn't enough "pie. ABSURD.

WE produce resources. The Malthusians wipe out bottom up production so they can claim a false scarcity... Why are the sane sitting back allowing the clinically insane and their dumbed down co-dependent lackeys to implement this false reality that leads only to chaos? Expose them for what they are. Expose these morons for everyone SEE them for what and who they are. Then their gig will be up!

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment 11b40
11b40's picture

Were you there, or did you see it on your radio?

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:28 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

In a truly free market, they would NEVER be able to do it. Period.

A truly free market is an idealistic world that doesn't exist.  Unlike many of you, I have been in destabilized countries without any effective government (such as Somalia and the Congo).  Let me assure you that the 0.1% can and do exactly this without government. 

We had a fairly "free" market back in the 1800's here in america.  very weak central goverment.  you could run around with guns and gold to your heart's content.  Oh, and you had the Robber Barons.

not to mention the original Robber Barons back in the 1200's.  When Central Authority was removed the Robber Barons exploded on the scene.  Same with the robber barons of England in 1100.

in other words, the absence of Central Authority is NOT conducive to having a free market. 

the goal is to have a Central Authority to have a set system of rules that everybody must abide by, so that things can get done.  The Central Authority must counterbalance the stronger players so that monopolies cannot be set up.  Unfortunately, in the US the Central Authority has been infiltrated and perverted and controlled by those monopolies.

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 13:52 | Link to Comment Clampit
Clampit's picture

Somalia is indeed a dump, but less of a dump than when it was burdened with a government:

http://www.peterleeson.com/better_off_stateless.pdf

Thu, 06/07/2012 - 16:16 | Link to Comment Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

My contention wasn't that life under government is always better than life without government.  It was only to dispute another poster's claim that the 0.1% can only keep their control due to the presence of centralized govenment.

Life in Somalia may be better than it was in the past.  I don't know, I haven't been there since 1998.  However, I'll tell you that it was an absolute nightmare... nothing to which any rational person would aspire.

The absence of a Centralized government opened up the way to "right through might".  Warlords and Tribal leaders simply set up new governments to replace the failed Central Government.  They enforce through blood, sweat and tears. (just like the USA).  Life under them is hardly a "free market".  We have seen this again and again when civilizations collapse. Never has a free market phoenix arisen from the ashes of a fallen empire.

If the US were to implode, there is exactly zero chance that we would end up with a free market.  This is magical thinking in the extreme.  Instead, we would have new borders, and new governments.  That's just the way it is.

If a part of the US chose to be free of a Central Government?  that's easy... the newly set up surrounding Central Governments would simply attack it and take it over.

For being doom and gloomers, I find it breathtaking how naive some of you are to how life really works in a land without laws.

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