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Guest Post: Will Tsipras Blow Up Europe?

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by John Aziz of Azizonomics

Will Tsipras Blow Up Europe?

The world’s eyes are on the Greek election, and whether or not Greeks will elect New Democracy’s Samaras (widely-assumed to be pro-bailout, pro-status quo), or SYRIZA’s Tsipras (widely-assumed to be anti-bailout, anti-status quo).

The Eurocrats have very sternly warned Greece against voting against austerity. Merkel said:

It is extremely important for Greeks to elect lawmakers who would respect the terms of the bailout.

In recent days, opinion has swung back toward the status quo, with Intrade rating New Democracy’s chances of winning the largest number of seats at 65%, and SYRIZA at just 33%.

While I cannot rule out New Democracy winning, I think that I’d flip those odds. Greece widely reviles German-imposed austerity, but fears the consequences of leaving the Euro — 85% of Greeks want to stay in. A vote for New Democracy would reflect fear of Drachmatization. Meanwhile, a vote for SYRIZA would seem to reflect the idea that through brinkmanship and the threat of Euro collapse, Greece can negotiate their way to a much more favourable bailout position.

So why do I think SYRIZA are the likelier winner? The election is on a knife-edge, so I think the difference might be football.

Greece — against all odds — managed to bumble through the Euro 2012 group stage, beating Russia 1-0 and likely setting up a poetic quarter final against Germany. I think that that victory against Russia will fire enough Greeks to try their luck and assert themselves against austerity.

For Greece, this is an important election. Inside the euro, their heavily state-dependent economy will continue to suffer scathing austerity. Outside the euro, they can freely debase, and — as Nigel Farage has noted — enjoy the benefits of a cheaper currency like renewed tourism and more competitive industry. If Greeks want growth sooner rather than much later, they should choose life outside the euro (and by voting for Tsipras and trying tough negotiating tactics, they will be asking to be thrown out).

But for the rest of the world, and the rest of Europe, this is all meaningless. As Ron Paul has noted, when the banking institutions need the money, central banks — whether it’s the ECB, or the Fed, or the BoE, or a new global central superbank — will print and print and print. Whether Greece is in or out, when the time comes to save the financial system the central bankers will print. That is the nature of fiat money, as much as the chickenhawks at the ECB might pretend to have hard-money credentials.

Tsipras, though — as a young hard-leftist — would be a good scapegoat for throwing Greece out of the Eurozone (something that — in truth — the core seems to want).

The real consequence throughout Europe as austerity continues to bite into state-dependent, high-unemployment economies will be more political fragmentation and support for political extremes, as the increasingly outlandish and unpopular political and financial solutions pushed by Eurocrats — specifically more and deeper integration, and banker bailouts — continue to help special interests and ignore the wider populations.


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Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:06 | 2533485 Mr. Fix
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 "Will Tsipras Blow Up Europe?"

It will blow without his help!


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:10 | 2533490 strongband
strongband's picture

Greece will stay in the euro, there is no other option for the euro. Why is this even being debated here? The notion of a Greek exit is mainstream.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:38 | 2533520 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

You couldn't be more wrong. MSM talks about exit but assumes the EU will not allow it, non MSM talks about the necessity of exit and the high probability of other countries leaving as well. There's no way this eurozone is sustainable over time.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:47 | 2533532 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Grexit is here!  Bye-Bye Urkel (I mean Merkel) good luck keeping the Euro going!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:47 | 2533533 strongband
strongband's picture

Sorry, you must not include CNN as MSM? The greek elections are a massive media beat up - how many headlines show: "what it means for you if Greece leaves the Eurozone"... etc. etc.

The reality is there will be no leaving of the Eurozone as it's all for one, and one for all, or nothing at all!!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:09 | 2533565 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Or all for nothing.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:34 | 2533616 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Greece leaves the Eurozone & the Eurozone replaces them with Baylor, Texas Tech, & Boise State...

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:45 | 2533642 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

So you're combining Greeks and end-zones?  How appropriate.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:57 | 2533659 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Germany fucked up badly by not keeping an eye on the billions given to Greece as subsidies after she entered the Euro. Money wasted.

German banks and French banks lent money without due diligence. Money lost and Merkel forced to bail out banks.

Germany inssts on austerity to the point that it turns into a humanitarian disaster as well as killing revenues, employment etc

Germany allows different rules for Spain bailout. Great example for all others.

Merkel sees herself as some kind of Thatcher and Lagarde as some kind of Delphic priestess. Both however will be burned as witches by the time it is all over.

Tsipras will emerge as a folk hero if hardliners try to screw Greece.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:11 | 2533492 Bleeding Fart
Bleeding Fart's picture

Merkel is the mythical Europa personified. She will take the bull by the horns and save the Euro, putting the EU on the path towards deeper integration and greater prosperity. In the future, hers will be the first face they put on the currency, in appreciation of her willingness to save the Union against all odds.


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:24 | 2533506 Olympia
Olympia's picture


Germans are proved to be the easy solution to breach Europe’s door. Whoever wishes to “set foot” on Europe and demolish it, the only thing he has to do is to “fool” the Germans. For a second time in less than fifty years, Europe’s idiots become the victims of foreigners and they serve their interests at the expense of Europe...


The German traitors of Europe along with the Phoenicians from Asia may have forced Europe to get down from the "back” of the Greek “bull”, but it remains to be seen how they shall pull it through with the “bull”.


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:35 | 2533517 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The German traitors of Europe along with the Phoenicians from Asia


No. The germans are not Europeans. They are Indo-Europeans. They come from Asia. No difference here with the Phoenicians.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:51 | 2533540 Belarusian Bull
Belarusian Bull's picture

Relax, everyone comes from Africa anyway,

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:58 | 2533549 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

You're right, but we're talking about a shorter time-frame.  Which reminds me, when is some so-called "white" guy going to bring a court case claiming that he is genetically African-American?  All "white" people are on par with Obama in this regard since his people never went through slavery, but they still get the benefits of preferential treatment.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 16:00 | 2534681 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

An aquaintance of mine was born in Lybia by Italian parents and immigrated to the US. I say he is truly a white African American (or American African). Geographical origin should not play a role in identifying a race.

Italian American does not necessarily mean white and African American does not necessarily mean black. 

Political correctness is just as bad as racism.

Same thing with being vegetarian which is more of a religion or ideology than diet selection.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:00 | 2533552 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Except African Americans. THey come from guilt.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:04 | 2533557 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

US citizens know no guilt.

With US citizens, it is always somebody else's fault.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:12 | 2534190 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous said:

US citizens know no guilt.

With US citizens, it is always somebody else's fault.

With AnAnonymousism, it's always US citizens' fault.

AnAnonymousitizenism at work.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:52 | 2533653 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

You wrote my words, pal. We all came from Africa.

And the so called "First World" managed to put their macroeconomic tools in the hands of a few banksters, germans included. It doesn't look clever at all.

Here are the results. At a certain point we'll all have to deal with the consequences of this corporative huge power and do something about or adapt to live under this amazingly INGSOC  like global government.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:14 | 2534192 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Muffa-Africa or Mutha-Africa or Muvva-Africa?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:53 | 2533544 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

All of the Europeans (except the Finns) are Indo-European -the 4 main groups are: Greek, Latinate, Celtic, and Germanic -hence you can see the origin of the problems of today; the people of the north prepare for tomorrow, while the people of the south live for today. 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:02 | 2533555 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Non sequitur and no.

People from Euskali are not Indo Europeans. They are Europeans.

The Black Irish are not Indo Europeans. They are Europeans.

Funnily enough, both have been constantly belittled by the Indo Europeans through association to negroes.

For example, it was common for the Germans living in England (since English are mostly Germans) to naturalize themselves by claiming that the Black Irish could be explained by closeness to negroes.

Nope. Black Irish could be explained because they are Europeans who are different from Asians like the Indo Europeans.

Same trick performed on Euskalians after they beat the frankish.


Germans are not Europeans. They are Indo Europeans. They come from Asia.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:18 | 2533576 Olympia
Olympia's picture

Everybody had something to say against Greece and its people. Everybody had something to remember from his visit to Greece or his associations with a Greek man living in Germany. In any case, they do not belong to the educated part of society so that they can have any other knowledge of Greece; know its quality and generosity. These people only know some Greek immigrants to Germany and a few waiters from their vacations in Greece. These people accuse Greece today at large. They seek for Greek people in their working environment to hurl insults at them. The so called moral German leadership had once again been satisfied. Its flock had once again hastened to execute its orders.

 German leadership’s goal had been achieved. It had managed to arouse German hysteria against Greece. Germans had turned Greece into a target with such an unprecedented ferocity and in an outermost violent manner that the whole of Europe had been terrified. They had made the first move. The witch had been pinpointed and all Europeans of all doctrines had seen it. None of them would like to be in the witch’s shoes. Greece’s suffering strengthened Merkel who pointed her finger at the sinner and her stern look searched for anyone dubious among everyone else.

Greece was now the ultimate European anti-paragon. It would be righteously punished and its suffering would serve as a teaching example. From that moment on, Greece would permanently remain in the spotlight so that no one forgot about the witch; so that no one forgot that he is invited to watch the ceremony of its public burn at the stake. This is why 2% of the European economy has 90% negative publicity and acts as if it is fully responsible for the problematic situation this huge economy is in.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:19 | 2533579 Olympia
Olympia's picture


What is happening today in a Europe whose member is the so called competitive and honest Germany is a new plunge of Europe in the medieval era. In reality, Europe imitates its past. Some people perpetuate an old intra-Christian dispute that has begun with Luther. It is a dispute that has drenched Europe in blood umpteen times. This is something that cannot escape notice any more, since the States that undergo a financial crisis have started to break away. It is obvious now that some Protestants perpetuate the Thirty Years’ War; a war that has drenched Europe in blood umpteen times; a war, expression of who were the so called World Wars; the World Wars that had been provoked by Protestants and had aimed at conquering Europe for a start, and then the rest of the world.

By virtue of these facts, we can understand that, despite the anti-Hellenic rage, their real goal is not Greece. Greece is too small a prey to be a target of such a big predator. Greece is the sacrificial animal that will be taken to the altar for the purpose of terrorizing the rest of Europe. Protestants’ actual target is the rich Catholic European World. They want to destroy Greece for the mere purpose of future reference and terrorization of those who they aim to plunder, which is the European Catholic World. Out of coincidence, all of the so called sinful European States are non-protestant. Only those who follow Merkel and they too point their finger to the sinners are Protestants.


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:24 | 2533577 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Black Irish come from the shipwrecked sailors of the Spanish Armada in 1588 as it made its way back to Spain around Scotland and the west coast of Ireland; they were taken in by the Irish Catholics.  This is very well understood.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 15:48 | 2534648 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Black Irish come from the shipwrecked sailors of the Spanish Armada in 1588 as it made its way back to Spain around Scotland and the west coast of Ireland; they were taken in by the Irish Catholics. This is very well understood.

Made me laugh. More German propaganda. Doubled with US citizen propaganda.

You know, on warships, you do have that many women. Hard for them to mate.

Second, you do not start that large a population by pushing on shipwrecked people.

Third: the fate of the stranded sailors is well known indeed, they were slain because they encumbered the Irish.

Fourth: DNA do not lie.

Nope. Black Irish are Europeans. They descend from the populations who lived in Europe before the Indo European Celts invaded and killed.

It is very likely that the Fianna tales speak about the deeds of these people after the celtic conquests being reduced to the status of permanent mercenaries, roaming war bands.

They were irishized for the cause. Just like the Germans turned the Euskali people into Muslims after the Germans got their asses turned back to themselves.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:07 | 2533561 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

the people of the north prepare for tomorrow, while the people of the south live for today.


Made me laugh. Quite a good one.

Another false dichotomy brought to you courtesy of a US citizen.

The sure point is that US citizens consume as if there were no tomorrow. Which might happen as soon they have reached their goal: depletion of resources.

Self fulfilling prophecy.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:22 | 2533584 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

So according to you, a people living in a place for 5,000 years (Germanic people in what's now called Germany) isn't sufficient to make them residents of that place?  That's just insane.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 15:52 | 2534654 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

So according to you, a people living in a place for 5,000 years (Germanic people in what's now called Germany) isn't sufficient to make them residents of that place? That's just insane.

So what is the limit? What is the number of years required to be turned into something?

Please tell, lets have a laughter here.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:45 | 2534105 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

made me chortle with glee!

"People from Euskali are not Indo Europeans. They are Europeans...The Black Irish are not Indo Europeans. They are Europeans.//Funnily enough, both have been constantly belittled by the Indo Europeans through association to negroes...."

funny that, reminds a bit of the problem of Han Citizen hegemonism...

Tibetans are not Han citizens...nor are Uyghurs, although  forced to parade around in foreign Han-made hanmedowns and eat poisonous products made by proletarian Kapitalist Roaders...all the while being belittled as 'monkeys' and 'backwards' folks...

Kultural Imperialism...with a side dish of phony pathos for perfectly normal peeple...yup....the big nose white boned foreign devils still have a lot to learn from the stewpots of Han Citizenism!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 15:57 | 2534667 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Tibetans are not Han.

It has nothing to do with citizenship.

If you want to see breach on citizenship, take a look at the US of A.

They stand high on the performance.

Plus later, other US citizen nations.

Look for excellence. Dont waste your time on Chinese for this kind of things. They are small players and the most common thing you learn from small players is how to play small.

Think big. As a US citizen, you'll see it, it is natural for you to consider that bigger than biggest is not big enough.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:29 | 2533599 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

The Basque's are not Indo-Europeans

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 15:53 | 2534657 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

They are not.

They are Europeans.

Germans are Indo Europeans. Germans come from Asia.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 22:56 | 2535370 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

Indo-European is a language group. Not a people.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:32 | 2533611 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

MERKEL is just another cheap keynesian whore.

Fuck her...

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:05 | 2533945 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Condolences on your down votes. My heart is still bleeding too for this original arian beauty on this steer, old and bitchy as she might appear.

Europa to the slaugtherhouse is the call of the day for deflection. None of the arguments keeping our
American world afloat will last for another day when not even our own empire subjects keep obeying.

Merkel will fail us as ever, but she whimsically is resembling us.


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:12 | 2533494 strongband
strongband's picture

Greece will stay in the euro, there is no other option for the euro. Why is this even being debated here? The notion of a Greek exit is mainstream and far from what the 'core' really want.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:48 | 2533536 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Why post it twice Strongban?  You fiqure the more times you say, the more likely you'll believe the BS?  GREXIT!!!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:20 | 2533500 financial apoca...
financial apocalyptic contagion's picture

aziz is such a retard

victory on the football field has little or no bearing on the vote off it

does he really think the greeks are like, "yesss we go through the group stages of the EURO 2012, ok lets fuk the EURO and go for the drachma"

if anything this sends the opposite msg of "hey we can be succesful even in the EURO economy"

Obviously, I wud want that they leave, but its not happening this time- anti-climax monday

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:24 | 2533507 YuropeanImbecille
YuropeanImbecille's picture

I am no fan of the left, communism is a civilization killer. However this man can not blow anything up, he has to do what he belives is right for his people, not the judeo-satanic markets.



Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:06 | 2533560 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

I am so glad that financially capable muslism never use their money in furtherance of religious dogma. We are so lucky that never happens, No way they could get past all that judea-christiian money. The current POTUS is not influenced by islamists in anyway. The market place of ideas is the only thing that mattters in Chicago.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:08 | 2533486 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

85% of greeks want euro, lol. Wonder what the number would look like if the robbed tax payer money stopped flowing towards Greece... Little has actually reached Greece society though since the robbed taxpayer money has just been floated through Greece into the coffers of the over sized, over leveraged, under capitalised insolvent megabanks in Europe.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:39 | 2533524 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

85% said want to stay in the euro.

92% said want public spending levels to return to where they were

98% said "they want a pony"

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:50 | 2533651 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

99% are against recognizing Macedonia under that name.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:09 | 2533488 aleph0
aleph0's picture

Wow ... Rated 4 x 5-Stars ... obviously Greece reads ZH 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:11 | 2533491 Motorhead
Motorhead's picture

Ya mas!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:15 | 2533495 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

85% of Greeks are afraid of the unknown, no surprise there. They need to ring up Iceland and trade for some fortitude. The informed world outside of the bank media would credit them gratefully for pushing over the derivative Tower of Mammon.


Uhhhh let's get ready to rumblllllllle! 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:15 | 2533496 pain_and_soros
pain_and_soros's picture

Saw the headline yesterday, Greece staying in Euro

 They beat Russia 1-0

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:23 | 2533503 falak pema
falak pema's picture

I thought Europe was already blown up by Merkel Hollande stand-off; as here :

Europe Will Splinter No Matter What Happens In Greece; 'France Has At Most Three Months' Says German Official - Business Insider

If the BI oracle says its over then its over, whatever...happens in...Athens. 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:31 | 2533511 Blue Dog
Blue Dog's picture

They won't  "enjoy the benefits of a cheaper currency". Everything will cost double what it costs today. That includes products produced in Greece. Since inported tomatoes will cost more Greek farmers will charge more for their tomatoes too.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:34 | 2533512 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

MUMBAI -- Worried over the flow of savings for investment in gold, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee on Saturday said there is a need to spread financial literacy to encourage people to invest in market instruments.

Pointing out that India's gold imports surged to $60-62 billion in last fiscal year, the minister regretted that people are investing in gold with the expectation that the value of their investment would appreciate.

"Quantum of import of gold ... is a clear indication that a large section of the community ... wants investment in a dead asset only with expectation that the value would appreciate," he said while speaking at a Zee television award function.

The minister further said, "Time is ripe to motivate our educated upper middle class to climb from saving mode to wealth-generation mode. ..

So. The government is trying to "help" people by telling them about good and bad investments. When did a government do that before. Did they say in 1999 "Don't by dot com's" or in 2006 "Don't buy real estate".
When governments go out of their way to "educate" people not to buy gold. It's time to start grabbing it with both hands.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:56 | 2533534 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

The US is more proactive.  It uses JP Morgan to actively push down the price of gold and silver.  Who knows if the PPT is not buying AAPL and FB?  US markets are manipulated to suit the Fed:

Please read this article carefully because I’m disclosing for the first time that the U.S. government has given JPMorgan the green light to manipulate the silver market. This fact explains the shenanigans in the silver market. It answers all the questions and exposes this tawdry affair for all to see.

""Time is ripe to motivate our educated upper middle class to climb from saving mode to wealth-generation mode. .."

Yes, list AAPL and FB on the Mumbai exchange.  Bernanke will approve.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:08 | 2533905 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

tedB disclosing for the first time?

L0L!!!  you may not have been born when the huntBros 'proved" the exact same thing in their "fun dialogue w/rockefeller" in crimex silver, but tedB was and so was ol'slewie!  and i was trading too! 

on may 25, 2012, tedB gave up trying to get the CFTC to "help" him

after what? 2-3 years of giving us their e-mails so we could write, write, write and tell them how important it is to stop theTreasury, theFED, theMorgue and theCrimex from cheating!

now, he has apparently "discovered" that the CFTC is part of the problem?  = brainiac2  we love ya, ted, but the dissonance in writing those e's will not be soon forgotten...

altho tedB is one of the most trusted touts ever, the jpMorgue couldn't have paid him to provide poorer leadership to nowhere

the most critical issue for silver is that it should be used as coinage and not be at a disadvantage to "legal tender" in the US constitutionally.  but this is a legal argument and not sublect to emotions;  tedB's is jousting at windmills b/c although he rightfully focuses on enforcement, i think he and we would have a better chance dealing w/ the constitution, here, since he is asking people who, like him and zeroHeads have skin in the game. to help him (and us)

but they are on the other side of the table and are the casino operators and pit bosses.  so sue them!  again

i think slewie has a better chance of convincing the chairsatan+Board of using PM coinage with no legal disadvantages for systemic stability than to try to arrrRRRgue anything cogently in this parliament of twitter-birds

globally, this would stop about 80% of the real terror & fear immediately;  paper money would be an option;  PM coinage would be an option.  both options at once:  legal advantage to neither, and keep it that way

this would "redfine markets" a bit and would only change the tax consequences for certain transactions;  this kind of tax relief, world-wide is only feared by those who wish to enslave others and there looks to be a ton of em in the "gold" camp, too

everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody want to die?  slewie sez:  everybody wants to win, but nobody is willing to play fair

real money = fairer

true.  and yes, i am the messenger

india pols join bankster class for propagananda porpoise-training porpoises?   rilly? 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:06 | 2534170 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

You GO Slewie:  put paper and PM coinage out there and let the best man win.  Who's afraid of that????

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 16:05 | 2534616 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

not me!  i've been suggesting it for over a year

so thank you, R_R!  why don't you ask tyler?  

dCasey?  rosie?  jMauldin?  theFED?  pigtailedPorno?  rPaul?  CHS?  exPats 1-1000?  banzai?  krasting? bonner&wiggie?  dNoland?  kirby?  ackerman?  cashin?  hazMat?  grant I &II? 

ever hear kyleBass talk about USING real money? of course not, except for fuking nickels and 90% copper pennies, which gresham (& bass & slewie) is forcing out as we type

the hypnogoguery and conditioning simply does not permit common sense, even here on zH

honestly:  benzelbub will see the value of this sound, tried, lawful, and stability-enhancing move before any of the toy-boys mentioned here

they hear, but they simply do not understand...

even "winning" isn't the idea, price-wize;  rather: stop the "losing to legal tender" aspect of ECONOMICS which has simply been legislated for the elites + ubers;  rather than try to take it away, just give us ourRealMoney, also .  again fair is fair [for both of us who seem to care...]

one of the reasons for the peak confusion is the economics of peak confusion, ok? 

goobermints can design and deploy what are known as "rewards and deprivations":  i would offer recycling as an "economic activity" of this type

thePeople are in tough, here and now, world-wide;  the People would love to use real money and not be hunted and outlawed for this idea

if this was good enuf for tJeff and generalJ to stand and face, maybe it might be good enuf for some pathetic clowns in blinders to consider advocating~~~something for someone besides themselves because in the long run...

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:50 | 2533626 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

The gold thing is stupid. Even if all hell breaks loose and inflation goes crazy you still have to trade it in for fiat.  Now when people were allowed to have gold before 1933, did this help any?  No it didn't from 1929 to 1933 people could have had all the gold they wanted and it didn't do jack shit.  In 1933 Franklin Roosevelt confiscated all gold.  When did the recovery start to take shape?  Before or after the gold confiscation?  Do your homework, and you'll find an interesting answer why India should say this.  Gold is just an excuse for people who have money not to work and to get the returns they think they deserve.  Gold is in major bubble territory.


Now Roosevelt was quite a good president, but when people talk about Social Security being a Ponzi Scheme I have to disagree.  Poorly updated and maintained due to arguements in Congress for votes would be a better description.  Franklin wasn't going to be around forever but you can bet your bottom dollar he would have sorted this thing out and it would have been a lot different than its current state. The problem with the USA now is Congress and the two parties want to fight for all the power, and there is nobody intelligent enough to be their true leader.  There has not been a decent president for a very long time.  I think Obama had good intentions, but they were too complex and would never help the current problems we are facing now. Now these babies are just concerned about their party winning so they are being a bunch of babies and always split right down the lines.  They all vote the same every time.  Its amazing any bill can pass with the exception of when one party controls both sections.


If gold was really that great, nobody would work or create companies they would just attempt to buy gold to push the price up.  After all why work when you can just buy gold and watch it double triple or quadruple in value.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:54 | 2533655 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

I believe you are in the wrong place. Jon Nadler's fan club is two doors down.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:00 | 2533664 Bansters-in-my-...
Bansters-in-my- feces's picture

Hey Tom Green.... You forgot the word " STUPID" in your user name....

STUPID Tom Green Swedish.....

See....Doesn't that soud more like you.......

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:55 | 2533928 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Million Dollar Boner ?  Move over !       Monedas     1929       Comedy Jihad Imagine Obama and Biden at the dais....reading the same tele-prompter....?        Monedas    1929         Comedy Jihad Oral Duet Minuet

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:46 | 2534111 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Well thank you kind person who has a picture of some slut on their profile.


Thank you for insulting me superior one. 


I am not impressed with your authority and I will not give respect and credence to all who claim it. 


Now go play with your gold coins fool or more likely in your case dirt.


Make sure you don't find any tungsten in it.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:45 | 2533641 The Monkey
The Monkey's picture

That is the best bullish argument for gold that I've seen in quite a long time.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:07 | 2533673 shuckster
shuckster's picture

Indeed - once governments start to talk about "education" and whine about people buying gold, it's probably a good time to start buying it

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:47 | 2534116 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Keep buying it.  I'll be there to short it for you.  And by the way if it starts to tank will you short as well?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:23 | 2534205 Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

I'll buy the Dip, dip.

Mon, 06/18/2012 - 01:38 | 2535508 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

OK you and George Soros and John Paulson, and now Bill Gross (right before it tanked) can have a blast.  Its probably right about time for them to start confiscating this crap again you lazy crook.  You'll get fair market value for it.  $42 dollars an ounce.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:36 | 2533518 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Bet on the current status quo.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:37 | 2533521 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

We can only hope.

In other news...

- White House : Suspension of #UN observers mission is a "critical moment". #Syria #USA

- US holds high-level talks with Syrian rebels seeking weapons in Washington

- Former Syrian National Council chief urges deployment of UN peacekeepers.

- Russian Air Force on standby to evacuate Russians from Syria.

- Syrian Opposition calls for no fly zone & safe zones.

- Russia may send warships and troops to Syria to protect its logistics base in Tartous, according to a Russian military source. “Several warships of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, including large landing ships with marines aboard, are fully prepared to take to the sea,” the source added.

- Germany's Merkel urges Greek commitment to austerity

- "the greek army is a silent force, but it will roar mightily when neccesary" was the defence secretaries answer to questions about the coming elections.

- US carrier to take part in exercises with Korean, Japanese navies

- U.S. expanding secret spy operations in Africa

- China Conducts River-Crossing Drill at N.Korean Border

The Chinese military exercise appears aimed at preparing for a swift entry into North Korea in the event of an emergency there.

- 'Hezbollah may move Syrian arms to Lebanon'

- Russia warns war is coming

Source reveals government given 4-6 weeks to crush opposition

The source told WND yesterday Assad was warned by Russia that if the coming counterinsurgency targeting the opposition is not successful in the next 4-6 weeks, Syria should be prepared for a war.

- IDF chief of staff-turned-vice premier: 'We are not bluffing'

Moshe Ya'alon tells Ari Shavit he is preparing for war. He suggests you do the same.

All bullish! War is good for GDP! Ask Krugman!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:34 | 2533615 ThirdWorldDude
ThirdWorldDude's picture

Aaaaand fresh from Mossad's kitchen:


Debkafile special report - "US military intervention in Syria - not if but when"


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:13 | 2533683 Flying Tiger Comics
Flying Tiger Comics's picture

Far too many bisexuals in high office in the first place but president hollywood and girlyman twink pooty poot putin clearly both like classic Trek, specifically "A Private Little War".

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:38 | 2533522 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

I wish Syriza would win this election and end the daily farce. However, I really doubt if he would. Greek people are just sheeple. They don't know what is good for them.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:43 | 2533526 sangell
sangell's picture

Greece getting tossed out of the EZ might be a blessing but not if it comes with a government that just wants to run by this Tsipras fellow and that seems to be the only option.

Now if you had a Lee Kuan Yew type, who ran Singapore when it got cut loose from the fading British Empire, ready to take over Greece, instill a little discipline in the people and run a small but efficient government all might be well. But I don't see any Lee Kuan Yew's in the Greek political universe

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:43 | 2533527 Plumplechook
Plumplechook's picture

Greece, Ireland, and Spain have had austerity since 2009. Their economies have slumped, their unemployment rates have soared, middle income people have been pushed into poverty, and the poor have been pushed into destitution. And all in the name of getting the deficit down. But in each of these cases the debt to GDP ratio has increased since 2009.

It seems that the only people who have benefited have been right wing ideologues who have used austerity as a cover to strip employees of basic rights, to dismantle welfare support for the most vulnerable, and to sell off public assets to their  friends (i.e. donors) in the private sector.

There seems to be no good reason for Greece to vote for more of the same failed neoliberal crap. Time for a change. Good luck Syriza and all those in Greece who want a more compassionate, more united country, with a revived economy. Its a beautiful country and it is a disgrace what the politicians, ECB, IMF and EU have done to it.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:55 | 2533546 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

The people that have that "Special" license to loan money are the ones that have and will continue to  benefit.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:17 | 2533571 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

...right wing ideologues...  Do you mean, as opposed to left-wing idealogues who have been only too happy to pretend to work and suck up any available Euros like a Shop-Vac?  


Just ask yourself why Greece has one of the highest levels of public-sector workers per capita in Europe, yet has the crappiest schools and public services on the planet.  Read Mauldin's chapter on Greece...very enlightening.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:44 | 2533638 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Greece, Ireland, and Spain have had austerity since 2009

BS. No real austerity has been done anywhere in the world. The only ones who have done it are Estonia.

Estonia has followed (as Krugman grudgingly admits) a roughly similar path: After a Great Depression–scale drop in GDP, the government attempted to keep the budget balanced (partly in the hopes of joining the euro) and has since seen 6 and 7 percent economic growth, though this has stalled recently, since their economy is heavily dependent on exports to the laggard euro zone.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:55 | 2533657 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

And that is the only path to real and permanent recovery - default on all onerous debt and from that point on spend only what is brought in in taxes.  But, wow, the world banksters certainly don't want that!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:21 | 2533676 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"Their economies have slumped, their unemployment rates have soared, middle income people have been pushed into poverty, and the poor have been pushed into destitution."

And that is exactly what should be expected to happen when someone who has been dependent on their credit card for living expenses stops using it and tries to live at a standard of living their income actually justifies.

For the past thirty years, many of the developed nations have been masking their drop in living standards caused by the exportation of good paying jobs to slave labor countries and living at a level not justified by their incomes with the expenditure of funds, both public and private, that were acquired through debt.  That is now ending and must come to an end for any real recovery. 

Governments must spend only what they bring in in revenues.  If they can't afford to support current social programs with that, then they have promised something they couldn't actually deliver and must either cut benefits, raise taxes, shift expenditures (cutting military budgets, for instance) or do a combination of all three.

One way or another, this is exactly what is going to happen because the current system is unsustainable and you can either do this now voluntarily or you can do it after much of your money has been transferred to banksters to bail them out and then it happens anyway, but YOU will have paid for it TWICE.  We must END all bank bailouts and balance government budgets worldwide.  Immediately.  Sure, it will be extremely painful, but that will come no matter what.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:14 | 2534193 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Better get rid of all the tax havens first.....

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:46 | 2533529 Long-John-Silver
Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:46 | 2533531 Debugas
Debugas's picture

greek problem - they do not want to pay their debts (want to default) but at the same time want the europe to continue to give them money. Both can not go together

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:40 | 2533631 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Do not want to and can't: there's a lot of that going around.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:51 | 2533537 Never One Roach
Never One Roach's picture

A plunging euro currency will result in a deeper depression in the USA due to the strong dollar and falling exports perhaps.

Ben won't let it happen since his goal is to inflate away the deficit over time...not intensify it.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:58 | 2533545 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

At some point everyone will realize that debt is a balloon and the current situation is a balloon with an unpluggable hole in it. It doesn't matter how much you blow (print) to inflate. Those dollars just go to cover old debts that in reality, can't be paid. That is Europe's situation and why each bailout is only making things worse. Soon to be in the US in the coming years.

But I think you are right about a worse deprression in the USA and the strength of the dollar. That is why I think their has been a currency war and the US is trying to actually sabotage the Euro - so that BB can have a stong dollar and thus more room to work with to inflate, which will fail. I do not think the Euro is doomed quite yet, but will be. I'll go out on a limb against the majority and say the doom of the Euro is many years out.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:32 | 2533608 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

I highly doubt this problem will surface in the USA. The downgrade of the USA AAA was poorly conceived, and All other AAA countries should be downgraded as well.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 15:50 | 2534650 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Poorly conceived only because the US is the reserve currency of the world. You need to look forward and beyond that to profit. Their is a currency war going on and it's not being reported and that is what ones like you miss. The Euro is not dead. This situation with problem nation's fiscal situation will give more leverage to the ECB to demand more power. I can imagine you at the peak of the Roman empire saying the same thing.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:51 | 2533538 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

There are generally two ways to power.

1) Through one's own ability and achievement

2) Through the failure of others.


The easier way is through the failure of others. Unfortunately, this allows for more incompetence to reach the higher positions of power.

Through the struggle of the Euro, the failure of each nation state gives the central planners more reason to demand more power, economically and politically. Eueo will be finished at some point, but not right now.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:08 | 2534343 malek
malek's picture

Sounds like another effective markets hypothesis to me.

Aren't you mssing some other possibility?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:52 | 2533542 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Can't Merkel just spontaneously combust? I rank that bitch right up there with the other cunt disorderments of the world such as Hillary and Rice. I wonder if that whore really is Hitlers daughter of if that's just rumor? It wouldn't be one bit surprising.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:53 | 2533543 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Here's the deal. The people that loaned Greece the money just created it out of thin air and gave it to Greece. Greece switches back to the Drachma and pays back the Euros it owes one for one with Drachmas printed out of thin air. Kinda tit for tat.

Any country that gives up the right to print it's owe currency is being run by mental retards. (Imagine if you would if Britain would be using Euros....they aren't that stupid now are they?)

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:02 | 2533553 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

That assumes that others (people owed money) will accept Drachmas on a 1 for 1 basis. It also assumes one outside of Greece will accept Drachmas at all and not demand payment be converted to another standard.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:51 | 2533649 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

And that assumes that those who are owed money they should not have lent in the first place and lent simply out of greed are going to be able to do anything about it no matter what the Greeks chose to do.  All they can do is cut the Greeks off for additional loans and in the long run that is exactly what every country needs to do to end this mess forever and make sure it never happens again - governments must spend no more than they bring in in revenues!  Want to finance a war?  Raise taxes!  Wars will no longer be so accepted and ignored by the general populace, which is exactly what the banksters DON'T want.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:20 | 2534204 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

If you really want to finance a war, go hat in hand to the Rothschilds.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:58 | 2533660 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Debt currency is a bad idea conceptually, some are much worse than others. A moped bought in Greece for a thousand drachmas vs eight euros or five dollars...for example.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:10 | 2533827 chubbar
chubbar's picture

Then the head currency design guru in Greece should get busy making a EURO printing plate so Greece can run off what they owe to foreign countries. Then they can go back to the Drachma. For christ's sake, everyone of those euros was conjured out of thin air by some asshat banker. Why the fuck should anyone lose sleep over printing some more up and handing them back?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:20 | 2533581 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Not mentally ill wathsoever: just criminals.

Gave up de right to handle their own currency.

Gave up their Central Banks to the banksters.

Gave the ECB property to Central Banks that are owned by the banksters (as the FED is).

Gave the ECB to be headed by one of the banksters' employees.

Allowed many States governments to be headed by banksters' employees.

All with the complicity of corporative media also owned by corporations and banksters having shares of the corporative media (Goldman has shares of Il Corriere della Sera, JP Morgan has shares of Repubblica, BlackRock has shares... And so on).

It's simply about conspiracy to commit crimes, as intended in Law (i.e., this, from California Penal Code): People who associate...

(1) To commit any crime. (2) Falsely and maliciously to indict another for any crime, or to procure another to be charged or arrested for any crime. (3) Falsely to move or maintain any suit, action, or proceeding. (4) To cheat and defraud any person of any property, by any means which are in themselves criminal, or to obtain money or property by false pretenses or by false promises with fraudulent intent not to perform those promises. (5) To commit any act injurious to the public health, to public morals, or to pervert or obstruct justice, or the due administration of the laws.

Banksters and their associated politicians should be prosecuted and convicted. But we all know there isnt'a such a thing like "Justice" able to deal with Power. So at a certain point, in order to free themselves from this kind of criminals, people will have to exercise Justice by their own hands.
Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:57 | 2533548 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

This is the most ....... sovereign default I have ever seen.

Does anyone actually know what's going on?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:22 | 2534209 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

We're witnessing history here.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:09 | 2533550 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Merkel: "It is extremely important for Greeks to elect lawmakers who would respect the terms of the bailout."

She is basically telling them how to vote. Next thing, she'll be glorifying the western democracy principles, while cancelling the Greek election results in order to help Greece overcome it's problems.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:17 | 2533574 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

And she urged the French to re-elect Merkos… sorry Sarkozy as the French President. That didn't quite work out as planned, either.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 08:59 | 2533551 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture

News from 2 Nov 2011

In a surprise move, on Tuesday evening the defence minister replaced the country’s top brass. An extraordinary meeting of the Government Council of Foreign Affairs and Defence (Kysea), which comprises the prime minister and other key cabinet members, accepted Defence Minister Panos Beglitis' proposal that the following changes be made to army, navy and air force and the general staff:
  • General Ioannis Giagkos, chief of the Greek National Defence General Staff, to be replaced by Lieutenant General Michalis Kostarakos
  • Lieutenant General Fragkos Fragkoulis, chief of the Greek Army General Staff, to be replaced by lieutenant general Konstantinos Zazias
  • Lieutenant General Vasilios Klokozas, chief of the Greek Air Force, to be replaced by air marshal Antonis Tsantirakis
  • Vice-Admiral Dimitrios Elefsiniotis, chief of the Greek Navy General Staff, to be replaced by Rear-Admiral Kosmas Christidis

If you think TPTB will not use any and all means at their disposal to perpetuate the current system then you are dreaming.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:05 | 2533558 Diplodicus Rex
Diplodicus Rex's picture

I expected more from a contributor to ZH:-

"enjoy the benefits of a cheaper currency "

It is true that by switching to the Drachma and simultaneoulsy debasing the value of the currency used in day-to-day transactions (Greek denominated Euros) they will, by definition, default on their loan obligations and rid themselves of the tyranny of their current debt load. Having a devalued currency will indeed spur tourism and exports. However for every pound/euro/dollar/yen collected for those exports they will have to spend that pound/euro/dollar/yen on imports thus negating any net benefit (other than an increase in those transactions) *. Whilst the endebted will 'win' by having their debts devalued or indeed defaulted upon, the thrifty savers (at any level) i.e. those with their wealth stored in Greek Euros will see their wealth stolen from them overnight. A lot of Greeks recognise this and are currently doing their best to swap the about to be devalued currency into something "hard". By exchanging about to become worthless currency into something 'hard' both the debtors and the savers can come out of this without being completely ruined. Those, however, with their wealth stored in Greek Euros will be wiped out.


"If Greeks want growth"

I'd like to understand why, on a site like ZH where the understanding of a debt-based, fiat, fractional reserve banking system is infinitely higher than the rest of the population, the talk of 'growth' is still perpetuated as a solution. First of all, the need for perpetual 'growth' stems from the use of the fractional reserve model. The quantity of currency must rise geometrically because only the principal amount of the loan is ever printed at the inception of a 'loan'. The interest is never printed. Thus, in order for the interest to be paid back, more currency needs to be printed which can only come into existence through the emission of more debt and hence it is self-reinforcing, geometrically. Without an exponential rise in the quantity of currency to pay back the principal plus interest, the system fails. It is designed this way. That is how wealth transfer mechanism works. Secondly, since the word 'growth', by definition, invokes the principle of compound interest or geometric expansion, it is doomed from the day it is started. Nothing on this finite earth can expand geometrically, indefinitely. That is a fact. So stop this inane reference to 'growth' as being the saviour of anything. That narrow minded thought process is the biggest problem we have.



* Henry Hazzlit - Economics in one lesson

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:08 | 2533562 100pcDredge
100pcDredge's picture

Banksters Inc. & Friends will blow up the whole fucking planet!

Todos somos España.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:10 | 2533826 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

You could be more right about this than you think:

Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda ended Japan’s month-long freeze on nuclear power yesterday, approving a reactor restart. Noda’s “under intense political pressure from the banks and the utilities” who want reactors restarted.". “They want to get those income streams back in operation.”

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:10 | 2533567 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Greece is a side show.   The real deal is in Egypt, and it's exploding.    Greece means nothing if the Middle East is in flames, with flames that will be reaching through out the Gulf.    Suckers, you're all looking the wrong way.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:17 | 2533575 Venerability
Venerability's picture

Worldwide Shorts United are way too arrogant again.

Almost always means they're wrong.

Most of the world doesn't want a return to the 1930s. In fact, what we might be on the verge of is the exact opposite of what the Short Side wants: a complete repudiation of the extreme Supply-siders.

Ironically, the US may have one of its best opportunities in decades to make things much better for itself by concentrating again on its Natural Sphere of Influence - Latin America.

When Senor Chavez leaves the world stage - which most believe is pretty darn soon - we will have a wonderful opportunity to work with, not against, the Latins and convert the entire region into Centrists. But only if we cooperate and compromise, focusing on our mutual benefit.

Stop obsessing on Europe. Stop obsessing on China. Start making the Americas as strong as possible. (And not coincidentally, cease and desist looking on Canada and Mexico, our real closest allies, as enemies.)

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:23 | 2533589 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Oh no, please, keep focusing on Europe, China, the Middle East and leave us alone! At least most of our States are in control of our own Central Banks!!!!!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:24 | 2534016 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

tyler will pay for it if you two wanna get a room together and model daisyDukes as the preliminary event

trust me

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:22 | 2533586 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

And lest we forget that other election of minor import today:

(Reuters) - Egyptians voted on Saturday in the first free presidential election in their history to make what many find an unpalatable choice between a military man who served deposed autocrat Hosni Mubarak and an Islamist who says he is running for God.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:28 | 2533596 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

How do these two choices differ from our illustrious leaders?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:28 | 2533597 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Why do the Muslims have to do everything for God; can't he do it himself?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:43 | 2533904 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Arab have all the springtime pollyannas of yesteryear gone?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:27 | 2533594 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Arizonomics sounds like a socialist pro money printer - 

Inside the euro, their heavily state-dependent economy will continue to suffer scathing austerity. Outside the euro, they can freely debase, and — as Nigel Farage has noted — enjoy the benefits of a cheaper currency like renewed tourism and more competitive industry.

Sorry Arizonomics, a cheaper currency and more government spending is not the way to help an economy. 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:29 | 2533600 Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

SYRIZA gains momentum each year.  With Germany pushing on them, with measures they will never live up to and the situation gets worse, its only a matter of time before this Alexis character comes in and "helps" his people, by abandoning the Euro.


As for the USA bankers, they probably did something good for the USA and the world. Look what a death spin they put into the rest of the world.  Goldman Sachs. Doing gods work one day at a time.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:40 | 2533629 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"As for the USA bankers, they probably did something good for the USA and the world. Look what a death spin they put into the rest of the world."

Yeah, just as good and "smart" as releasing some virulent contagion that will eventually come back to kill your own country.  And, BTW, multinational banks have zero intentional allegiance to any country. They have allegiance to only one thing - making the maximum amount of money from putting your money at risk.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:41 | 2533614 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"Tsipras, though — as a young hard-leftist — would be a good scapegoat for throwing Greece out of the Eurozone (something that — in truth — the core seems to want)."

There is no official mechanism to throw anyone out of the EU.  They have to leave voluntarily.

And the best thing for the Greeks in the long term would be for them to elect someone who has enough balls to tell the banksters to go F themselves.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:43 | 2533636 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Three facts:

Germany is what keeps the 17 member eurozone intact. This therefore proves how weak this union is if it is dependent on just one member nation.

Austerity that is primarily focused on a greater level and more taxes combined with salary and pension decreases is destructive .

Tsipras cannot cause the demise of the Euro but he can hasten it.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:47 | 2533644 meatball
meatball's picture

I wonder what will take down the whole show, if the central banks can just "print and print and print". I am running out of patience :)

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:29 | 2534221 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

They'll cease when hyperinflation sends the price of ink to the moon.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 09:52 | 2533652 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

The specious spewage and mendacious musing of the pundit class has reached new lows...every body has a take on what nobody knows...and the role of the media is now to baffle the plebs with cheap one liners worthy of a Batman or Spiderman villain..Commissioner's Robin...Batman's bein barraged by the barfed up bafflegab of the Baffler! Were be yur boys in blu?

How will this, the third round of the jousting in Europes' soft underbelly play out? Round one, the Greeks, weary of the yoke of Ottoman rule[altho Islamic law applied only to Muslims, & Greeks were free to worship as they pleased and to maintain their own culture and language] begin slaughtering Muslim peasants and townspeople[of the estimated 50,000 Muslims living in the Peloponnese in March 1821, an estimated 20,000 were killed within a few weeks -- men, women and children]...the Sultan reacts by hanging the Orthodox patriarch in Constantinople.

After much back n forth terrorization of Christians n Muslims over the next decade the western powers intervene to impose a settlement...with reserved right of intervention in Greek affairs, and an imposed "king" Otto, of Bavaria, a stranger with no connection to the Greek peeple or their interests...and under whom, strangely enough, taxes were much higher than under the "oppressive" regime of the Sultans...

Round One: losers-Greek n common folk everywhere under the Meditterrean sun. farmers n financiers of Salonikan\Symrnan ilk, and the kultural vanguard of their liberal poets n pologists that paved the way for their ascendancy over all of Europe.

Round Two: too long to describe within the confines of a comments section: imaginative readers will form an idea that winners n losers of the next period 1914-44 will be not unlike those of Round One.

Round Three: would it be cruel to describe the Greeks as serial losers?  Altho my heart is with them, my head says that sheep are born to the slaughter, and slaughter it will be, should the current Sultans of tSevi have their way: the Shepard[ic]s of the Dimon[ic] klans shall slay their flocks in sacrifice to their satanic masters, and the stain shall spread till all Euro-merkia be red...wit the blood of innocents

-like the Middle East be today...lookin forward to seeing the runnin dogs n barkin lackeys of the moneypower rise the rescue of their masters here in short order! Remember...junking does not a rebuttal make!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:02 | 2533665 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

I don't think this election has any importance at all, as there's not a damn thing they can do to change the underlying facts of their debt situation and the inevitable consequences thereof. At most they're determining what week TSHTF, not whether TS will HTF.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:06 | 2533672 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

the writer should not be talking of "winning" here imo

either syriZZZa or nudie will (may) win a plurality which, with a strrong close to the polling might appraoch 35%  but will more likely be closer to 30%

the dramatic question of the title is probably best answered:  fuk no! 

altho i generally agree with the analysis focusing on the banksters, the EU banksters may be up against systemic limits so the SNB, FED or conceivably msCuckooChanel will aide the sovs from the 'i am effd' for the trickle down to the banks from the big pruned va-jay-jay hairPie-in-the-Sky buy and bye

theoretically, there is a point where the EU no longer makes any sense whatsoever, but since we flew past that mofo in 2010, just enjoy the popcorn, BiCheZ!  it costs about the same for you to make a bowl of zeroPop as for a bankster to make another biblicalBillion

if we could make zeroPop money, we could bail out the world! but would we be smart enuf to do it piecemeal?  besides, why would we want to trade real popcorn for old paper debt? 

WTF(?) and FTW(!):   i'm a zeroPop hoarder!  it ain't 4sale and NO!  you can't borrow a cup!

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:08 | 2533675 TRN
TRN's picture

Greece needs to:

1. clean up political corruption (Siemens scandal, etc),

2. set up a merit based public service,

3. ignore international pressure and select government on Greek criteria.

4. decide herself if it makes sense long term to stay with the Euro.

This course of action will be the best for Greece, Europe and the world.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:19 | 2533696 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

What are the odds that the Greek elections are not rigged?

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:50 | 2533781 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

of course they are rigged

but they are also re-rigged, de-rigged, deep-rigged, fly-rigged, float-rigged, bottom-rigged, top-rigged, big-rigged, wheel-riggied, track-rigged, sled-rigged, dog&pony-rigged (for lizzy) and let's not forget the pto in case yer water buffalo dies or runs away b/c the drones won't leave it alone

the greeks have this rigged for the same degree of accuracy we do:  autocrats&friends, bureaucrats&friends, and democracy uber alles

bread!  circuses!  and butter served at gun-point!  greece should be in the USA! 

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:45 | 2533759 gnomon
gnomon's picture

Greece can not continue as she is.  She is on life support.  She needs to summon the courage to pull the plug on herself and to cross on over to the other side to begin a new life.  There is no other way.

The days of something for nothing are over for her as they will soon be for the rest of us.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:08 | 2533765 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture

I usually rank ZH the best financial media newsmedia, but in the case of the Euro and the commitment of the marxist political establishment in general and Greece in special, you are completely wrong:


1. Tsipras has written a letter for the FT, in which he clearly states, he wants to keep the Euro. Ofcourse! The EU is a cryptomarxist project - EUSSR!

This leads me to the second point;

2. What US-Americans seem not to know, is that the whole political establishment in the EU, christdemocrats, socialdemocrats, liberaldemocrats, konservatives, greens are GLOBALISTS! Their agenda is the destruction of the nation-states. Therefore the EU is their EUSSR.


Merkel, for example, was working for the GDR's STASI. Her name was IM Erika! For the communist party she was responsible for AgitProp!

The communist block was simply given up! The globaliist forces (Gorbatchev [like Reagan] is freemason!) correctly concluded, that Capitalism - with Marxism the two sides of the same coin - is more adequate for establishing World Government, NWO, the destruction of the nation states. Capitalism additionally allows to commit anti-white GENOCIDE with mass immigration and additionally rises the profits due to wage-dumping and destruction of the social coherence.

The conclusion of this reality can only be:

The Globalists share one vision and one goal. Tsipras is a GLOBALIST, not a NATIONALIST. So he is one of them and shares their final target. Greece will stay in the Eurozone and Merkel, will do everything that this cryptomarxist project will continue as long as possible!

Understanding this, makes it possible to put your financial bets accordingly.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 10:48 | 2533772 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Don't bother me right now about Bi-Polar Greek Socialism....I'm listening to Africa Today on CNN !   You have to get your priorities right !        Monedas      1929         Comedy Jihad Flaunting His Indifference To The Socialist Implosion  

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:01 | 2533811 Againstthelie
Againstthelie's picture


Mubaraks Egypt was stable.Gaddafis Lybias was stable.

Husseins Iraq was stable.

Assads Syria was stable.

Iran is stable and one try of a green-CIA-revolution already imploded.

Nothing new, everything is working as planned, if Egypt destabilzes more and more. The destabilization of the region is part of the plan: the Globalists want these countries to turn into jihadist bases. This is the prerequisite for the big war, they want.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 11:31 | 2533856 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Happy Father's Day !  Gather the family around to watch the Greek elections !  I'm going to Ocean City chinese seafood buffet restaurant....for 98 pesos ($7, no tip, tax included....Mexicans don't go for taxes and tips added at check out !) you can eat in or  they give you a styro-foam sectioned tray with clamshell lid and a styro-foam cup with lid for fruit or dessert ! This is how you maximize your purchase !   Rule 1:   No fried rice, noodles, bean sprouts and meat and vegetable dishes ! You want all meat !  Rule 2:  Load up the sections with the spicy/garlic shrimp - it's slippery and doesn't stack well !  Rule 3:  Build a containment dike with breaded fried fish fillets around the edge of the tray....kind of like a slump stone wall !  Rule 4:  Fill the space with sweet and sour chicken, pork rib chunks with sesame sauce, sliced pork (the red stuff) !  Rule 5: Construct a truncated pyramid to fill the clam shell lid space by knitting fried chicken, skewered meat, stuffed crabs, etc. !  Rule 6:  Be casual....don't be obvious !  The employees are your friends....the older Chinese lady at the check out and other customers are the enemy !  Rule 6: Bring a friend to fill the cup....if they say it's only for soup....through a bunch of shrimps and sliced pork in before you top it off with seafood soup ! If they say it's for dessert and fruit....go for the custard (flan) and fruit salads !  Rule 7:  Smile when you check pleasant and don't create a fuss !  You can gloat in the car !  When you get home....serve yourself and let the family divide up what's left....let them do it in another could get ugly !       Monedas    1929      Comedy Jihad Because You're Worth It !   

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:03 | 2533943 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

This is the most hyped up Worry Wart event I've seen in a year.


Probably turn out to be nothing, the world economy will continue as usual with no real interruption.

If we get good news and rally out of here, I'll call it the rally the Million Dollar Boner.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:47 | 2534069 Cupid Stunt
Cupid Stunt's picture

Hey Robo, I'll give you +1 for that.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:08 | 2533958 Cupid Stunt
Cupid Stunt's picture

It does't matter who wins the election because in the next few weeks......

Syriza forms a government.


New Democracy forms a government.

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 12:35 | 2534062 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

Rally warning continues...

SPX bullish daily chart strengthened further on Friday & more rally expected.

DOW initial target approx 13,170 & more upside after that.


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 13:26 | 2534218 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Leaving the Euro only to debase?  This is nothing but more competitive currency devaluation...

Sun, 06/17/2012 - 14:05 | 2534338 boogey_bank
boogey_bank's picture

Speaking about

deflation vs hyperinflation


phys gold vs paper gold vs dollar (in its paper, electronic and treasuries form)

Tyler (and all ZH herd) what do you think about these two articles (from martin armstrong and antal fekete)?


Sun, 06/17/2012 - 20:26 | 2535143 covert
covert's picture

platinum is the best currency



Sun, 06/17/2012 - 20:42 | 2535171 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

Nice up-tick this evening (~ 1% so far).
And still at ~8% discount to Au.
I like the Pt Leafs even with Liz on them but why the best currency?

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