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Guest Post: Yet Another Reminder That Democracy Is An Illusion

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Simon Black from Sovereign Man

Yet Another Reminder That Democracy Is An Illusion

With over 150 million registered users, the file sharing site MegaUpload.com is one of the most popular on the Internet. At least, it was. 

The site has now been seized by the US government and its homepage converted to an FBI anti-piracy warning. Its founder, a high tech entrepreneur named Kim Dotcom (yes, he had it legally changed), was arrested in New Zealand after his homes were raided and assets seized.

These actions were all at the behest of the US government. And it's just the latest example of Big Brother overextending its authority across the entire world.

Last week, we discussed the grassroots efforts to stop passage of the SOPA/PIPA legislation that would give the US government jurisdiction over the Internet. Wikipedia blacked out its English language pages to raise awareness of the issue, and people went completely nuts.

Congress subsequently withdrew the bills amid popular outcry, and the public rejoiced that their efforts successfully thwarted further encroachment on their liberty. Or so they thought.

On the exact same day that everyone was celebrating victory over SOPA/PIPA, the US government simply used another set of regulations to nab Dotcom and seize his assets. The fact that SOPA was scrapped turned out to be completely irrelevant, they just found other rules to apply (or break).

As usual, it's probably not legal. But such technicalities don't matter in the 'guilty until proven innocent' system in which we live. Executive agencies exercise extreme latitude when confiscating assets, and victims often don't have the opportunity to address the matter in front of a judge for years, if ever.

In Dotcom's case, the man probably won't even successfully make it past the extradition process for at least a year... let alone bring the issue to trial. The government is using its bureaucracy to completely circumvent due process and make an example of somebody that they consider a nuisance.

So why should they care? What interest could the US government possibly have in a silly file sharing site? None. But the entertainment industry does.

You see, we don't live in a representative democracy. Democracy is an illusion to make people believe that they're free. Instead, it's blocs of large corporations who are really in control. If the entertainment business wants Kim Dotcom to go away, the government will invent or break any law necessary to make it happen. They're all in bed together.

What's more, it doesn't matter which group or party is in power. Democrat or Republican, Labour or Conservative, Liberal or New Democratic... they're all for sale. Citizens concern themselves with the outcome of elections, investing heavy emotional and financial support for 'their guy'. Companies just wait it out and buy off whichever candidates win.

Kim Dotcom, though a wealthy and successful entrepreneur, was essentially a lone wolf standing against the entire industry. Rather than find ways to work with him in what is clearly emerging as a dominant media platform, they chose to eliminate him... by having the US government send the New Zealand government to arrest him and seize his assets.

It's mind numbing when you really think about it.

Ultimately, Dotcom may successfully find his way back to a normal life after years in court and perhaps some time in jail. In the meantime, though, his case certainly makes a strong argument for flying under the radar. It's a stark reminder that, if they really want to get you, they'll apply, invent, or break whatever laws are necessary to do so.

 

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Tue, 01/24/2012 - 19:10 | 2094329 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

The premium cost comes from marketing expenses and its price is supported by the cartel that enforces market share and distribution producing less choice and forced consumption. Kind of like the FRN.

Empire is always vigilant to protecting from threats to its hegemonic domain. SOPA and these raids are just the first steps in a process to formalize ownership of the Internet, not unlike the issuance of Crown patents to lands from sovereign conquerors, simultaneously establishing registered ownership and formalizing the legal estates as well as a property tax regime in cyberspace.  SOPA and their ilk, IMO, are meant to be a trojan horse virus of 'copyright enfringement claims' that would be cured by license waivers to be paid by all internet users.  One of the many premeditated yokes to build a toll highway and construct a feudal cyber landscape capturing the users that had lived in harmony with and built the frontier.

This will be an Internet compression of the American Indian Wars except fought this time directly by the Robber Barons with the settlers simply left in the corrals as the compliant sheeple consumers that they are...plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:53 | 2093657 flattrader
flattrader's picture

I have friends who are musicians.  I occasionally play with them and collaborate on lyrics.

They have a regional following and had some success with sales through CD Baby.

Several years ago they just said fuck it.  Now we all just play for fun.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 17:56 | 2094150 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

ran an "indie label" years ago, we kept it cheap and self-supporting with vinyl & cassettes - nowadays it's even easier to make up a few CDs, some cool artwork, Tshirts, etc. - sell 'em at gigs, maybe put up a "fan site" online. . . but definitely, play for fun.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:08 | 2093712 Catullus
Catullus's picture

There's no such thing as IP because you can't own an idea or a collection of sounds or an ordering of chords, words, or processes.

You give the same tired pro-IP argument: who will do anything if anyone can just copy them?

What happened before governments created IP laws? Did people not create new works of art? Did they not build new machines and processes? Did all of history begin when a government decided to put an arbitrary fence around an idea? It's ok, you can admit to yourself now that "Big Brother" has nothing to do with it and life will go on with IP laws.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:16 | 2093749 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Trent Reznor (of Nine Inch Nails), for one, while not initially liking the idea of free music distribution, chose to accept it as inevitable and embrace it. He has been pleasantly surprised to discover that giving away low-quality digital copies of his songs leads people to purchase both higher quality and other versions, such as limited run, hand signed CDs with extra goodies which hardcore fans/collectors gladly shell out $300 (or more) to get.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 18:51 | 2094365 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Don't forget radiohead's "name your own price" download of in rainbows, linked directly through their site...  which was met with significant financial success. 

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 01:01 | 2095454 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

genius.      both the idea, and their music.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 17:01 | 2093900 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

This is the future.  Regretably the future is not so bright for those who have set themselves as cultural gatekeepers, raking vast sums of money and influence from their stables of artists, blocking access to anyone who doesn't play their game, and defining the cultural landscape to conform with, and support approved models.  It does not mean the end of intellectual property rights for artists. It's really just a new monitization/sharing model which cuts out the gate keepers.  I create unique intellectual property and I am looking forward to working within a model which doesn't force me to sign an exploitive contract or maintain my political correctness in order to have my work considered legitimate.  That is if the network survives... this shit is just the beginning, it's on baby. 

In fact, this is part of the ecosystem, especially in the hip hop world. It's why the artists also support those hip hop blogs that the RIAA insists are dens of pure thievery. The artists release their tracks to those blogs, knowing they'll get tons of downloads -- and actually get money. If they do deals with labels, they know they'll never see a dime. Putting music on Megaupload is a way to get paid. Working with a gatekeeper is not.

prolefeed - Rubishy "Entertainment" and spurious news which the Party handed out to the masses. This includes written literature, movies, porn, music, and other various propaganda created for the proles. (For a modern example of prolefeed, just turn on your television or radio. With the exception of some scientific programming, everything else is prolefeed.)

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 08:00 | 2095774 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

I'm no fan of "big brother", but, who is going to bother to create unique intellectual property if it can be stolen without attribution/payment.??

As if there is only monetary motivation to create works of art, Gioconda was created long before IP laws existed, so as many other artifacts. I think, in fact, that IP laws will actually inhibit innovation since it will become harder and harder to create something that is unique in a true sense of this word - everything essentially was already written or sung about by someone at some point, at least as far as mainstream is concerned. I bet artists will spend more time in courts defending their titles against each other or their fans than actually producing something. If you have a central repression apparatus that enforces your rights over something immaterial, you are more inclined to produce one piece and then spend rest of the time milking revenue from it, than make significant effort in producing something new, since marginally legal action will have a bigger return than the art process itself.

IP legislation is just another attempt to centralize and administer people's creative process and will either collapse under its own weight or will be used to create digital dictatorship that dwarfs all distopian dreams of Huxley and Orwell taken together.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:11 | 2093459 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

NAZI party anyone?

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:11 | 2093460 mholzman
mholzman's picture

 

If it's a male, easy to hire a female and claim rape, even attempted rape is sufficient. There is always the use of "found" pornography. For women, narcotics.

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:12 | 2093462 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

simon - your article is impeccable....i have no quibbles or additions...thank you..

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:12 | 2093463 PrintPressPimpin
PrintPressPimpin's picture

egregious... disgusting...the thing to watch here is if there is any further response from the public about this or it just gets buried like everything else.   This types of actions by our govt alienates more and more of the proles.  If they messed with football instant riots.. now off to the woods to work on my bug out camp..looks like we will be needing it sooner then later..

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:13 | 2093466 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Knock two birds with one stone.. Get rid of competition, and shore up eroding revenues via confiscation...

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:14 | 2093468 Questan1913
Questan1913's picture

EXCELLENT post.  May be time to read 1984 again; not only was it prophetic but much of it is used as a template by our homegrown totalitarians.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:21 | 2093519 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

Note to Politicians:

1984 was a work of fiction, not an instruction manual.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 18:41 | 2094331 scam_MERS
scam_MERS's picture

As was Animal Farm, supposedly. Orwell was quite the visionary IMO.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:14 | 2093474 Negro Primero
Negro Primero's picture

No More Free TV in America? http://www.atdhe.net/

Hahaha, I'm moving to Sweden: http://atdhenet.tv/index.html

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:14 | 2093480 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

To the extent that its business model based on copyright infringement, Mega-upload was a valid target of enforcement.  At the same time providing a forum where both legal and illegal activity takes place is not a crime.  In those cases the company has to coopoerate with enforcement, but in itself should not be a target of enforcement.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:14 | 2093481 resurger
resurger's picture

FUCK Golf Oscar and Vector!

I think WB7 megaupload illustration says it all!!!!

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:17 | 2093495 Apeman
Apeman's picture

google anonyupload

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:21 | 2093520 jo6pac
jo6pac's picture

He should of hired a big well connected lobby firm with lots of xcongresscritters then everything would have been just fine.

Great Toon, thanks.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:27 | 2093542 Uber Vandal
Uber Vandal's picture

Much like with the missing money with MF Global, what is going to happen with the missing data of people who used that site for data storage?

I never did like the whole "cloud" idea, for you never own the physical product, nor is it under your control.

Much like remember how music downloads were supposed to be cheaper than buying a physical record of CD, due to no production cost of materials, and yet, many albums on iTunes cost exactly the same as the physcial recording?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:26 | 2093543 Derpmonger
Derpmonger's picture

Will someone please think of the children!

It's best we ween them off the idea of getting copyrighted material for free.  It will just hit them that much harder later on in life, sorry kids, but getting free copyrighted material will soon be a thing of the past, like liveable wages, and affordable housing.

GONE WITH THE WIND.

 

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:30 | 2093556 Executioner
Executioner's picture

And what people will do about it?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:33 | 2093568 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

if just 15% of the US pop. just buys the essentials and NOTHING else for 9 months (the time it takes for a child to be born) We can take back our country

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:36 | 2093578 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

This was a PR stunt for the government. Have you guys looked at the details of this case? These guys were set up to be taken down. Plain and simple. Wake up sheeple.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:36 | 2093581 Derpmonger
Derpmonger's picture

I just read a post on reddit saying that megaupload was about to launch a music service called megabox that was going to go head to head with the other cloud based music storage brands.

"In other words, another entry into the very crowded DIY space.  But there's a lot more to this story.  Instead of charging artists, Schmitz wants to pay artists - even for free downloads.  "We have a solution called the Megakey that will allow artists to earn income from users who download music for free," Dotcom outlined. "Yes that's right, we will pay artists even for free downloads.  The Megakey business model has been tested with over a million users and it works." "

Could this really be why they were targeted?  That would be very bizzare considering they are being hit with RICO laws! LOL

Racketeers lobbying to take down rivals with RICO laws.  This shit is absurd.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:55 | 2093874 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

How artists distribute their music is purely their choice, but most artists nowadays sign away significant distribution rights when the sign with labels. So Kanye West, for example, may not legally have the ownership over his music in order to distribute it that way because he already signed a contract with a studio.

 

I'll just be sitting on my what.cd buffer for the time being.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 18:06 | 2094202 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

publishing royalties.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:38 | 2093587 CapitalistRock
CapitalistRock's picture

It seems to have escaped most on this forum that Kim DotCom was clearly running a crime organization. This is not a matter of civil law. If you honestly believe he was able to earn $39 million per year by running a legal service that competes with Drop Box or Flickster, then you are a moron.

Capitalism can't work if personal property rights are not protected. This guy was stealing property. Massively. Most of you are pretending otherwise and giving him the Corzine free-get-out-of-jail-card of "I didn't know what content was there. Honest". Bullshit.

It's exactly what Corzine did. And we all agree Corzine should be in jail now. As a criminal. And his assets raided and returned to their rightful owners.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:49 | 2093611 Derpmonger
Derpmonger's picture

There are a boat load of these types of companies.  Will they shut them all down?  You sound like some PR bootlicker.  "We all agree"  WTF, fuck off and die.

 

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:52 | 2093862 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

Yes but very few file-lockers tout the ability to share files as much as MU did.

 

Plus, given this guy's history with embezzlement, fraud, and insider trading, something tells me there is a lot more to this story.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:43 | 2093615 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

Your a moron if you think they didnt know about this guy all along (more than likley helped him, many "affiliate" customers out of Langley, surrrrre, Using unencrypted emails while running a criminal orginization,) and think it is a total coincodence they pulled his card the day he did. This was planned inline with SOPA, hook line and duped again.

How naive are you?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:43 | 2093616 Executioner
Executioner's picture

1. He was arrested because he made 39mi/year?
2. Should he check EVERY single file that random people upload at his site?
3. Why a bank is not seized, closed and fucked when a big shot store illegal stuff in his personal safe?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:46 | 2093621 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I disagree. The laws violated are to protect obsolete businesses not anyone's property rights. I've tested Google Music and it violates these same laws.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:18 | 2093756 onebir
onebir's picture

You're a moron if you think breaching copyright should be a criminal and not civil offense...

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:26 | 2093780 css1971
css1971's picture

This guy was stealing property.

Copyright infringement used to be a civil matter and I'll point out that others were using his service to infringe copyright. Some were using it for legitimate purposes. However by buying off governments, the companies involved managed to pass the expense of prosecution on to the public.

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 19:31 | 2094492 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

Yes, to starter of this thread.
So if I send email to you with attached mp3, at the same instant as you open file, you should be arrested and whole property should be confiscated, as you had illegal file on your PC?

No? You feel like a law-abiding citizen? But you do have illegal file, so take all that law can pile on you.

Wed, 01/25/2012 - 07:23 | 2095754 onebir
Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:45 | 2093618 toros
toros's picture

Copyright ©2009, 2010, 2011 Zero Hedge, LLC. All Rights Reserved

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:47 | 2093627 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

Tyler, if you keep saying that, you site would be gone and your assets would be seized.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:51 | 2093641 ThisIsBob
ThisIsBob's picture

Oh, just spare me.  Guy was knowingly facilitating the transfer of stolen property and making lots of dough doing it.  If he had been operating in some alley would you have the same sympathy?  Just cuz he does it on the internet, he's some kind of victim/hero?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 15:59 | 2093655 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

"knoingly facilitating the transfer of stolen propeerty and making lots of dough doing it"

... and the carriers don't do it?

Will FBI seize telephone cables?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:18 | 2093759 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

"Property" is most often misused as a term when applied to "information." The discussion has a tendency to become extremely fucked up because everyone gets trapped in bad analogies.

One of the reasons stealing is so easily recognizable is because you deprive the previous owner use of the property.  That doesn't apply in the case of digital copies of information.

Personally, I don't have a problem with Kim Dotcom being charged with crimes if he was making money by selling access to other people's work. 

But that doesn't mean the existing system of protection of "intellectual property" is any good, or is worth defending.

This is a major industry undergoing revolutionary change.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:00 | 2093679 sabra1
sabra1's picture

Hey McCloud! get off of my ewe! (rolling Stones}

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:05 | 2093704 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

One would think that Chinese entrepreneurs should already have had this "cloud" market cornered.

Well outside the reach of the "law's" long arm, a motiviated individual in Shanghai should be able to scoop up some market share.

We won't live to see the day when Chinese authorities arrest a Chinese national at the behest of the FBI and Joe Fucking Biden.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:08 | 2093714 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Is there anyplace left in the world where there is true liberty any more?

I had been considering Chile, but who can stand in the way of the Beast from the Book of Revelation?

My best friend was just notified that his Forex brokerage account in Dubai is being shut down because of pressure from the US government under the FrankenDodd regulation. DUBAI! They told him that no US citizen can have an account with them any longer, and they are sending him a check in the mail.

Tyranny is HERE!

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:12 | 2093732 Burgess Shale
Burgess Shale's picture

So the sequence of events went someting like this:

1-The White House came out against some provisions of SOPA/PIPA.

2-The big Hollywood money guys said they weren't gonna give Obama any more money for re-election.

3-Congress withdraws SOPA/PIPA till later.

4-The DOJ announces it is taking action against MegaUpload, thereby throwing a bone to Hollywood.

And BTW, if the DOJ can move so effectively against sites like MegaUpload, then why do we need SOPA?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:15 | 2093750 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

And BTW, if the DOJ can move so effectively against sites like MegaUpload, then why do we need SOPA?

DING...DING...DING...WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:13 | 2093742 Georgesblog
Georgesblog's picture

That's how Corporatism works. This is how people find out who runs Barter Town.The objective of commerce is always conquest.

http://georgesblogforum.wordpress.com/

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:20 | 2093747 j0nx
j0nx's picture

I've been telling guys at work for 2 years not to do backups to these online backup sites and they don't listen. I will always prefer to have 3 hard copies of my data. The online drive, one onsite backup drive and one offsite backup drive. The only way my ass loses data is if a nuke goes off in the middle of both home and work locations.

As an aside, I read about this today and suddenly everything becomes clear:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/111314089359991626869/posts/HQJxDRiwAWq#1113...

We ARE living in pre-Nazi Germany here folks. I'd say we are equivalent to Germany circa 1928 right now minus the hyper-inflation (which may yet be still to come).

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:00 | 2094567 Endurus
Endurus's picture

Democratic nationalism here we come!

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:41 | 2093826 billsykes
billsykes's picture

Look at it this way-

They said he made $200m off his company, and the loss to the copyright holders was $500m by these metrics he is doing quite well by government bailout and hedge fund standards, he only lost 60% over several years.

Better than that obama solar investment.

This is why no one should do business or have their business materially involved with the internet. They can pull it like building 7 at any time.

Fuck the cloud.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:41 | 2093827 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

This is mind-numbing corporatism - a powerful government doing exactly what it is being told by corporate interests. Whether you see it as a protection racket (To protect the monopoly of the biggest abusers of copyright - Google/Youtube), or political whores doing tricks for the biggest bids from Hollywood, these antics just rub me the wrong way. In Britain we have two people up for extradition to the 'States for 1) Hacking the Pentagon, and then telling them about their vulnerabilities (What can I say? Gary McKinnon suffers from Asperger's) 2) Merely providing links to fucking TV programs. (Richard O'Dwyer).

 

None of these guys deserve even a slap on the wrist, let alone being extradited to the torture capital of the planet to face millions of dollars in fines and decades in federal prison. All of those involved in SOPA, PIPA, NDAA, TSA, Gitmo - let's just say the whole federal government of the US - need to be arrested and be taught a lesson in abuse of power. The whole fucking lot of them belong in prison. 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:41 | 2093829 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

I guess all those 45 second vignettes they play before the feature presentation just weren't detering the crime quick enough /sarc off.

and damn Simon, I don't have a smarmy thing to say about you this article, it was well done.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:53 | 2093843 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

And only the true pirates of Wall Street are allowed to ply the waves in service of the Empire.

Now...if things were more like The Crimson Permanent Assurance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX61PUZ3xkI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crimson_Permanent_Assurance

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 19:54 | 2094552 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

No one expects the Crimson Permanent Assurance ....

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 16:56 | 2093882 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

Lots of people were happy when the government legal geniuses used RICO to bust "Mafia dons" and "drug kingpins" and seize their assets before conviction. Now that they are using the same unconstitutional methods against anybody their corporate cronies deem a problem, everybody's shitting themselves. This is why democracy is an illusion: nobody gives a rat's ass until it lands on THEIR lawn like a sack of flaming dogshit.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 17:34 | 2094021 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

Why is Chris Dodd still able to walk freely

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 19:05 | 2094413 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

If Ron Paul wants to "do something," I want him to state a concrete date to get rid of the Fed, for example, or I want him to resign the Presidency.

I've stated Ron Paul is nothing more than a Republican fraud. He's in the House of Representatives where all legislation originates. What has he accomplished? Nothing. Are Boehner and McConnell backing him? No. So he states a date or resigns. I don't trust Republicans, the wholly-owned subsidiary of Wall Street, as far as I could throw an elephant.

Small government: why are Paul and his son in Washington, DC? They'd have a comfortable living as medical doctors.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 19:39 | 2094511 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

"In Dotcom's case, the man probably won't even successfully make it past the extradition process for at least a year..."

They technically have 45 days to submit the extradition request.  It will be interesting to see if they actually pursue it.

Let's face it ... TPTB have a vested interest in genuflecting before the altar of NWO and making sure that they have a "righteous kill" here, so the request will be made and the extradition will happen within a "reasonable time."  Whether or not Dotcom is a despiccable character does not matter so much as that action was taken to assure the public that they can buy licensed material at premium prices.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 19:52 | 2094551 Endurus
Endurus's picture

I personally think pirating movies, music and artwork is wrong and illegal.

HOWEVER I DON"T SUPPORT PIPA/SOPA because it's NOT about copyright laws.... it's about limiting freedom of speech... but pirating (theft) is not free speech.

Time, Money, Energy etc went into the creation of that product with the intention of selling it for a profit... we talk about wall-street and the FED stealing... it's theft when we download movies/music/art without paying for them.
And when a bunch of script kiddie hackers argue that it's not illegal.. it's a crock of shit. Everyone knows at a base level those things are wrong.

Obviously when used for legal purposes... file sharing is a great thing. (by legal I mean only 'not stealing'... not whatever is currently defined as legal ie.. circulating political dissent etc.)

It doesn't matter who is making the profit off of the item sold. That is not a justification to steal it.
If that is the justification you make... then you are just the opposite side of the same coin that our government is in. the only difference is they are centralized and you arte not. In the end you are still stealing... you just don't have a big ponzi government backing you up.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:01 | 2094571 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

So Endurus, who loses money if I download 1942 obscure war movie of dead author?
Or cuban music that no bigwigs sell? They sell only pop, nothing rarer.
Or 30 years old National Geographic? Will they generate money for anybody?

In some countries there already is "pirate tax" that everybody buying HDD or DVD should pay. Fair, eh?

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:21 | 2094603 Endurus
Endurus's picture

Whoever owns that intellectual property. That is the whole point of copyright laws.

I'm not saying it's illegal to download/share stuff that is out of print/circulation or out of copyright protection. (read my post very carefully.. i chose the language specifically)

The piont I raise is: If you deny others copyright protection.... why should you have protection for yours?

Additionally... you can find edgy hard to find music in other places besides the internet... you may have to go through an intermediary... you may have to go to a a physical location and pay a premium for it. Just because it is not available on ITUNES/Rhapsody/Bestbuy whatever... doesn't mean you have the right to not pay for it.

At the end of the day... you can make up a justificaitno for it.. and probablly sleep soundly at night.
It is wrong to steal ANYTHING whether or not you agree with it.

That's one of the great things about being AMERICAN.. is respecting the rule of law (not that I support what these ass hats in washington are doing)

If you don't share the same view... then you are not very different from the people who can justify stealing from the clients 401k's.

EDIT: Additionally... you can buy old national geographics from individuals... so they can make money off it... you can even order old editions if they are still available directly from national geographic....

LAZINESS is not an excuse for LAWFUL behavior.That's what the US was ORIGINALLY about.... respecting the rule of law.. we have come a long long long way from that sad truth to where we can justify stealing something.

EDIT 2: No... I don't support a pirate tax. I support no new taxes.
What I would like to see is citizens beome responsible for their actions again... and a majority of the shenanigans would stop.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 21:17 | 2094715 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>respecting the rule of law

Germans respected the rule of law when they sent their neighbors to the gas chambers.

>you are not very different from the people who can justify stealing from the clients 401k's.

Copying doesn't deprive anyone of their property. Copying != Stealing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw-MFeR8Frw

>If you don't share the same view...

But how can anyone share the same view as you? Wouldn't that be stealing?

After all, you "homesteaded" the portion of intellectual space where your view lies. I would be a mere latecomer.

Anyone sharing your view would be a criminal trespasser who should be arrested or simply shot.

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 21:32 | 2094754 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>Everyone knows at a base level those things are wrong.

Not true. Here's an IP attorney who disagrees: http://mises.org/daily/3682

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:14 | 2094594 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

No other nation on the face of the earth incarcerates (for the educationally challenged - JAILS) more of it's citizens than the good ole U S of A. With a penal system operated by the corporate sector for fun and profit!

Not one. Repeat, NOT ONE serious investigation or charge laid, into the crap that goes on in Wall Street/Washington DC where MF ing Global can steal over one billion dollars, not even covertly, right out of customer accounts and thumb their nose at 99 percenters!

Yet, have someone operate a globally popular internet site, that supposedly steps on the elites bottom line and you have the full weight of the corporate facists come down on your head!

The american empire is crumbling at the edges and is putrid rotten to the core. All it requires is the front door to recieve a good kick and the whole stinking, cess pool of an entity that has the temerity to call itself a democracy, will come crashing down. We may live in hope.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:28 | 2094626 Endurus
Endurus's picture

here here.

Rotten/Stinky/Gross.... but the problem is not in washington.

The problem is you and I... the problem is the populace.

For example... republican national debate: 5 MM viewers... American Idol: 18MM viewers.

We preach on soapboxes and message boards while or forefathers died, were labeled terrorists etc.

It's time to get off our asses , organize and implement the principles of the constitution.
But in order to do that... we first have to be living it in our own lives. Which starts with personal responsibility, respecting the rule of law and enforcing the rights of the individual.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:29 | 2094632 philipat
philipat's picture

What happened to "Prior restraint" under the First Amendment?

Sorry, I was forgetting that at least 30% of the Constitution no longer applies?

And what of those legitimate users of Megaupload who now no longer have access to documents and other legitimate personal property? And what of the future of the cloud after it has been demonstrated to be totally at the pleasure of the Feds? Welcome to the land of the free.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:43 | 2094654 Endurus
Endurus's picture

Trust me... I hate EVERYTHING about our system as currently written.

Because the federal gov. uses it to justify stealing from and controlling us.

What I am saying is that... if we don't respect the rule of law... we demonstrate ourselves to be the same as them.

And if you have ever been a leader then you know the only way to do so is to lead by example.

It's hard to do... and that's why it hasn't been done before.
We are a culture that preaches immediate satisfaction and that we are unique and special.
Ergo... we are lazy... and will accomodate any injustice as long as we are left alone.

EDIT: That does suck about legitimate users of mega upload not having a resource like it to use anymore.
But I now have a suggestion. How about creating a torrent site that only houses legitimate freeware... i'm sure they are out there already... it's just that most people don't use them because they are too busy stealing stanley kubrick's clockwork orange.... or Oblivion, or whatever hot ticket item is out there.

I realize I'm preaching to the choir here because most young people are anti-establishment. I'm for LIMITED-establishment.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 21:22 | 2094730 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>if we don't respect the rule of law...

Basically you're saying you wouldn't hide Jews under your floorboards if you were in Germany. Good for you.

 

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:45 | 2094666 LiquidDreams
LiquidDreams's picture

A company that KNOWINGLY violated copyright and intellectual property laws was shut down. WHAT A TRAVESTY! Don't worry guys, you'll still be able to steal all the music, movies, and software your hearts desire.

 

You should know better than to put up shit like this, Tyler.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 20:45 | 2094667 zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

USA USA USA USA - ah fuck it.

Tue, 01/24/2012 - 21:12 | 2094716 mrmanmade
Wed, 01/25/2012 - 01:15 | 2095488 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

The 404 error of death.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!