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Hello ItBBB+ly
It only took a few years, but we can finally move from A to B:
- ITALY CUT TWO LEVELS TO BBB+ BY S&P, EU OFFICIAL SAYS
Somehow ItBBB+ly doesn't quite have the same ring to it... Oh well, it will still work as pristine collateral with the ECB.
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Stronzo, meet fan!
The eeewro is in freefall mode.
Expect riots over the weekend.
Bunga bunga!
Do underage BBB+ Italian mistresses still put out as well as A ones do? A certain Silvio wants to know.
Too cold.
I'm sure a lot of cars and banks will burn to keep the rioters warm.
Maybe even a banker or two. And politicians too.
speaking of burn.. was glancing back at the UNG chart at 120 not too long ago and trading at 5ish now. Should I put my limit to buy in at $1.00 or should I hold out for .30 cents ?
Video of Italian reaction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf4cZDH_99k&feature=related
Porky PIIGS reaction: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9qsdz7gMlY "Son of a BBB...Son of a BBB...Son of a BBBitch"
I agree with you, this weekend is going to be crazy. Everything is coming aparts along with the "voluntary" cut ot Greece debt (which isn't possibly anyway and why isn't anybody talking about the insurance that was bought by them. If the insurance can't pay, then aren't those places insolvent also).
Thank you Mr Chairman Ben Bernanke! Because of your wise fiscal policy, I was able to refinance at 15 years fixed for 3 1/8%
God Bless You Sir!
Gotta admire S&P. Takes cajones to do these downgrades.
this is meant to be sarcasm right?
Damn.
Tyler, let me help.
was Italy downgraded?
Yep.
Little BBB+taly
So Tchir's question comes to the forefront.
Italy knew of this material event (they get 24 hrs notice), did not disclose it, and sold bonds to the public today in their auction anyway. That auction should be disqualified and all bond purchases cancelled.
Nope, not never, because the plutocrats sold more crap to the HFs & PFs - suckers..........wake me up when they DK those auctions - LOL
Spain too, no?
That is the rumor
And PORtugal
POORtugal?
POOHtugal?
Only two levels. Sounds bullish. Now that that uncertainty is gone the stocks can continue to rally I suppose...
fuck me. with a broomstick as hard as you want. i don't even feel it anymore. like a pornstar who has had one too many 9 inchers.
im swearing off the equity ponzi. im just going to work my job, collect my fiat and buy a nice shotgun.
Mama Mia!
Now you're talkin', S&P...change those B's to C's and you might actually be truthy.
Here in Europe we sometimes think of the average us-american as a guy, who can't afford elementary school. Should this be part of a countries rating ?
I am almost positive some talking head is going to say this is bullish on CNBC
steve liesman?
How is he even able to hold a tax-paying (note, I didn't say 'honest') job?
This man surely must have studied under Stalin and Beria??
Doubtful he pays taxes. He's got the priveledges, doncha know.
Maria Meatballs, gesticulating with her little sauerkraut hands!
Steve LIESman says it is,
I trust his judgement.
This morning he said he can't get a 5% ROR from his FA. He has a FA.......
It's just a flesh wound...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
Yes. I am sure someone is going to say "If it weren't for the S&Pee existing, all countries would be AAA"...just like CNN said if it weren't for Ron Paul running, Huntsman would've com ein 2nd in NH.
BBBullish. There , it's done.
Nice one!
Enjoying his recent BlowHorn [CNBC] and television free life, Cdad briefly turned on Bloomberg [streaming] briefly today...to hear, of course, that all of this stuff going on is "priced in."
Yep. The MSM just keeps playing from the same playbook...even though the plays from it are bust. Fewer and fewer folks even listening, and most folks now understanding that none of these established networks have any credibility. These talking heads are simply a joke.
And just like that, Bloomber streaming...off.
Everything is priced in. Unless the news is positive, then it will gradually be prices in over 7 days. Or priced in as the headline is repeated 53 times over the next 3 months (as is the case with "markets rise on European debt talk hope").
Cross reference to the Hedgies negotiation with Greece re default:
That is a cooperative game with outside otpions having an opaque value.
1. They broke off negotiations today to "rethink" = to revalue their outside options since the downgrade has implications for the probability and level of EFSF funding.
2. Hedgies know that the "win-win" is not default - Tyler reckons they are there to hold out to the end but its not an optimal stragety if that carries a more than zero % prob that doing so will mean Greek exit (see Tyler's ref to Toscafund note that states it clearly - that's a rally to hedgies to deal)
3. The hedgies aint gonna roll at a loss - so deal at some positive haricut but above the implied haircut they bought still brings in lots of wonga.
Greece objective function = max [PSI Haircut - capped bailout value - their outside option(default)]
Hedgie objective function = Max[Buyprice - PSIHaircut- their outside option (default)]
fill in the numbers, set PSI Haircut to max product of the two (FOC = 0 ) and bob's your uncle....
This framework gives you an idea of how bearish/bullish things are... we go to the wire but not over the cliff; the market has priced in a "plain sailing to doing the deal" which is not the case as Tyler keeps saying
I'm so hoping, that all these hedgies have been buying cds from us-american banks, so that the balance of cause and reaction can be maintained, no ?
In my best Buford T Justice voice: THE GOTDAMN GERMANS GOT NOTHIN TO DO WIT IT!
Why, thank ya mister bandit. And as a pursuer, may I say ur the goddamnedest pursuee I've ever persued.
My personal fav.
Reflections on Europes financial woes. Special subject: the economies of the European Community. Which debt is owed by whom? Who will pay the bill?
Must see
http://www.webcompact.net/index.php/news/4795-euro-collapse-explained-in-3-minutes-
Paging LCH Clearnet.....please make your way to the telephone marked 'Bunga bunga'.
BBB = Bunga Bunga Bailout?
LMFAO, going long financials into the 3-day weekend. (it is a shit throwing contest folks and the American paper-pushiung fucknuts are much better in this area) Doubleplusgood.
and the market could care less....they all know that Ben has their back..period....
Ben is set to make a fortune on his FX swaps (which should be coming due any day now). Maybe the Fed can make over $100 billion this year?
I remember as a kid when my grades would drop it would shock me to get my ass in gear. Maybe if the ratings agencies did a meaningful and accurate downgrade ( one that isn't priced in) it would shock the markets and the people to get there act together.
Then again monkeys might fly out my ass too.
When i was in college, and when my grades dropped, I BEAT THE HELL OUT OF THAT NERD SITTiNG NEXT TO ME IN CLASS!!!
And than he also realized that slacking was the same as getting a beating and my grades went up.
Action = Reaction!
but did you have to step on my glasses too? my mom bought me those.
That indefinite detention bill is staring at the S&P, they won't be doing any shocking anytime soon
This lunatic market hasn't priced-in much of anything; JPM miss, S&P downgrades, earnings warnings, et al. 'Loose Money" has been convinced the US Equity markets are "The Place To Be". Now, this may be proven right in the weeks ahead (hopium delusion), but when raality takes hold, and earnings deflate, there will be a scramble out of equities and into fixed income.The 'facts' always lag the 'rumor'...
BBB+ ?? WTF. Should be FFF. If there is anybody in the ZH reader universe that actually buys this shit, please post and tell some of us what your rationale is for giving bankrupt European socialist governments money. I am seriously curious as to how you think you are ever going to see any of it again.
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
Kyle Bass probably reads ZH but I don't think he's long Italy
Everyone reads ZH. I bet Bob Pisani reads ZH.
Dear Jimi,
Pissonu is a eurofanatiic...
He will be culled at the Pogrom.
Funny bit is, the Pogrom is coming - it's called mental and fiscal health of the market, eh?
I WILL ALWAYS INVEST MY MONEY IN ITALY!!!!
I eat pizza AT LEAST 2 times a week!
Now John Jimi you know full well Bob Piss-on-me would be scared shitless if he ever stumbled across this website
Pizza Pizzzaaaaaa!!!
"Anthonyyy!!!"
Now let's put those fingers back into our ears and sing our national LaLaLaLaLaLaLa song!!!!
It's hard for them to put their fingers in their ears when their thumbs are up their butts.
As long as they don't suck their thumbs after that it not that bad...
Someone say "Switch?"
Back from where???
Should I put CNBC on for a laugh? I bet its priced in already right?
Reality has some serious lag in the financial world. This will all be fun come monday... Let the shorting beging!
But this does harken back to Peter Tchir's article from a bit earlier on ..... they really did sell bonds into the market without disclosing material info. As we all know - F'in crooks .... and they have gotten away with it.
Looking forward to QE3.
Wonder if Brian Sack finally took delivery of that bberg machine. Going to need it when he goes trolling for Italian and Spanish bonds.
Yanks are so lucky to have such awesome central planning.
#cAnAdA
Yeah, because Canada is the land of the free, without any central planning.
Lizzy you are a loonie.
In terms of fiscal issues (social safety net, etc), Canada is much more centrally planned, but in terms of monetary policy, we have them beat hands down. The BOC isn't nearly as interventionist.
Also, you have to wonder about the end game here in the USA: debt at 100%+ of GDP does not hold much of a future for a free society. Tyranny is the only natural outcome.
America: 100%+
This is the biggest indicator of financial meltdown and is barely mentioned by the Obsolete Media. How the hell can there be growth when growth is less than the debt issuance?
Still believe in infinite growth on a world with finite resources do we? Good luck with that.
That's what I'm sayin'.
Actually "Freedom Watch" with Judge Napalitano hammer's the debt issue along with many other concern's. It is actually a good watch if he is the spokesman, if he has a sit in, turn it off imho.
Yup, as they say, private gains, socialized losses. That is where the losses show up (and on the Fed's balance sheet, of course, which will eventually generate taxpayer losses). It's obviously not sustainable. Again, the question is, what is the end game?
RBC hyper-hypothecation scandal has yet to hit them. Once that happens, it'll be: "A black swan, eh?"
RBC, CIBC, Nasty Bank etc.
Va fangool, S&P!
Time for the 3rd installment of the Fed sci-fi movie "QE 3 - Return of the Printing Press" starring Ben "Obi-Wan" Bernanke. Coming soon to a broke-a$$ town near you.
Welcome to 2012, everyone!! Haha. Oh, and I think it's stupendous that they decided to do all this on Friday the 13th. Great timing, indeed.
Maybe the Mayans new something.
Too high, no way is Italy investment grade.
bout dang time , my shorts are still underwater.
Thanks for the reminder. My shorts are in the laundry. I need to clean a load.
wheres bagdad bob? he needs a job hes every bit as good as cnbc fox msnbc etc losers
Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf == "Bagdhad Bob"
Maps of the region are plain, flat-out wrong! DeNile runs around the entire Planet!
Peter T...the answer to your query is an unqualified YES!
I feel sorry for the Mafia, they are in way over there heads.
USA, USA, USA. Is US debt still AAAA?
BBBout time.
Next!
I like how every news agency, politcian, EU official and grandma out there is confirming the downgrade. Everyone but the agency tself.
I wonder what those guys over at Moodys are doing now? Never hear a peep from them nowadays. I wonder if uncle Warren installed bathtubs in their offices. So everyone could get eureka! moments. Hell move them into the same offices as the SEC so they can really party since they don't seem to be rating!
BooYAAA!
We are achieving ever higher goals in our quest for monetary utopia! We are living the dream!
As Biflationary policy proceeds, all paper assets will trend toward Zero! And all real assets will be worth infinity in terms of paper!
Happy Friday The 13th Everyone!!!! Have a cannoli sta sera
I hope the italian people dont lose their fun-loving nature after the big-bang happend. Its so much fun to be with them. I am austrian, we are boring (sad to say), but these guys are amazing.
Kind of amazing we are not down 8 - 900 points. Controlled burn I suppose.
I'm sure the shadow banking community already priced this in. Not that any of them have hard and fast rules on owning only A rated or above debt.
Means GOLD should be priced around
__
X
Moody has this country (Italy or ITBBB+ly) at A2 on negative watch, right guys? I would guess that Moody's will soon follow suit with a downgrade of least a notch......very little time left to get out since there's a very tangible chance of losing everything.......
Someone explain how this is only worth a minor drop in the market and is bearish for PM's?
Because you're watching theater. The real discussion is about who gets bombed.
"It's priced in" for the market.
This leads to a stronger dollar and shows what happens when fiat is measured against fiat rather than PMs. Banks and countries are near failure and PMs drop? Absolute stoopidity.
Priced in? Last I checked the markets are higher today than December 1.
I didn't claim any of this would make any sense, but this will be the explanation as to why the bottom didn't drop out on today's financial news.
USD up, PM's down...and the ratings agencies have the reaction time of a drunk driver. They're telling everyone what they already knew. It doesn't change anything fundamentally but if you're a bull you say "well maybe this will force them to finally act".
PMs sold on both downgrades, only to by bid right back up. Show of force by gold today.
That is QE3 rumors.
Watch Asian sessions until Feb. Either this piss colored metal goes back into the paper game or we're going to start the real(physical) bull market.
Will we in Europe collapse fast enough for dr Paul to get to 1st in South Carolina? I sincerely hope so, for your freedom and ours.
South Carolina is going to be very interesting..........
Did you guys know that Bain Capitol owns a piece of Clear channel?...........rush/hannity...........
We'll get around to invading you soon enough...Just sit tight.
Let it BBB+,
Let it BBB+ !
Let it BBB ....
There will be answer, let it BBB+.
Downgrade everybody to 'F' already so we can get the S&P 500 back to record highs.
Five countries downgraded, HFT bots say "buy buy buy!" I mean - only one percent down on a day like this.
Nothing has changed.
Capeche!
"Somehow ItBBB+ly doesn't quite have the same ring to it..."
Wait until its ItJUNKly...now that's a bad ring.
And the first official response...go 3:50 into the clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9l7C6fjvgE
Freddy, good one. ...like an Italian CDS, priceless, Ah ha haa
(Reuters) - Aluminum giant Alcoa (AA.N) said on Friday it will push ahead with its plans to close a smelter in Italy, rejecting Rome's calls to keep operations on the island of Sardinia running as a battle around the struggling plant heated up.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/us-italy-alcoa-idUSTRE80C1TT20...
...BBB bad ...BBB Bad, First BerluCan'tGetASconi ... and now the EU Delaware Slide. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNF4mnAH_2I
EU debt crisis explained (simplified version) in just under 3 minutes;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=NOzR3UAyXao
Luckily Bernacke has his finger on the SPY, QQQ, IWM buy button.
I knew something was rotten today when I turned on CNBC and they had all the talking heads and "experts" begging for QE 3. (The S&P was at 1295 this morning for Christ sake. That's pretty high) The Dow goes down 100 measley points and they all want us to panic. WTF? From one side of their mouth they tell us how everything is so great and recovering thanks to their Central Planning actions but from they other side they panic about more money printing if the market doesn't go up every single day. Which is it? I hate these ass-holes. Why don't they just tell us this is all just going through the motions pantomime bullshit before our inevitable collapse, hyperinflation and subsequent brutal police state they are reaping for us.
CNBC? After the eye candy, there's no there there.
NLY up slightly in a down market. People picking up on the idea that QE3 will boost mortgage-backed securities. If Obama gets his mortgage plan on the table, NLY will really fly.
B-b-b-buy, Bushwood????
Via CNBC (linked from Drudge), said while discussing the French downgrade:
...said Commerzbank chief economist Joerg Kraemer.
"That may irritate markets in the short term but wouldn't be a big problem in a world where the U.S. and Japan also don't have a triple-A rating anymore. Triple-A is a dying species," he said.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/45985456
Honestly, how did we arrive at this present environment where this asinine analysis is said with a straight face and then NOT systematically and voraciously laughed at by everybody in the room? He might as well had just said:
"It may irratate the lungs in the short term but wouldn't be a big problem in a world where everybody is taking their last gasp before sinking under the water line for good. Respiring Humans are a dying breed anyway."
I don't know who this guy is... but what an asshole.
Would it not at some point in the conversation the anlayst or commentator say that the central banks have taken the wrong approach to the problem? If in fact that all begin to get downgraded? It is amazing how ignorant they think wea ll are?
should have said...." Ratings agencies are a dying species, the smart money in the market does their own homework."
correction..."What a Loser"....
Marc Faber on CNBC now saying most of Europe should be CCC.
The Euro death by many credit downgrade slashes. You'll have to include France in there as part of the garbage. Guess it takes a while to use other peoples money. And those long European holidays and nice pensions have taken their toll.
RONZONI ON SALE !!!!!! ...Vaffanculo, Putanas!
Va bene.
If you have an A, you gotta have a B....
BBB+ ? La perfezione non è di questa terra.
Look at this market rocket back. You would think some piss ant unknown island in the Pacific was downgraded one notch. Now bananas are going up!
France DG....Dow up 50, until we get to the Italy DG....and the Dow goes up another 25.
WTF?
it's beacuse the dow is now 100% algos. Theres no market. The FED own it all now
ES NO FUCKING VOLUME AGAIN...UNREAL THEY ARE GOING TO BE UNCHANGED ON THE DAY WATCH
I think italBBBy sounds better
Can banks in Europe use BBB+ paper as tier I capital with the ECB??
If they can't then this is an enormous gaping hole in funding when Italy needs to refinance 30 billion Euros by the end of the month. Their only hope is that euro banks would use the 1% ECB money to buy their ~6% long paper. But if the banks can't bolster their capital with Italian debt they won't bother with that spread. They'll keep piling into German debt and try not to get caught without a chair when the music stops.
France and Italy are still AAA in my book.
Downgrade buy. Upgrade buy. Shit sideways buy