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Here Come The OS Class Wars: Orbitz Finds Mac Users Spend More On Hotels Than Their PC Counterparts

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In a finding that many have subliminally known about for years, but never been actually proven, yet is still quite shocking, the WSJ is reporting that tourism portal Orbitz "has found that people who use Apple Inc.'s Mac computers spend as much as 30% more a night on hotels, so the online travel agency is starting to show them different, and sometimes costlier, travel options than Windows visitors see." Which is not really surprising: after all Mac users tend to "see" far pricier computers too, not to mention "buy." As a result, Orbitz has decided to automatically redirect Mac users: aka the rich, but gullible ones, to seeing hotel offers that are more expensive than those seen by PC users by on average $20-$30. Call it OS screening, and call it perfectly acceptable: because it appears, empirically, that Mac users are perfectly ok with spending more than they have to for virtually anything.

From the WSJ:

Orbitz executives confirmed that the company is experimenting with showing different hotel offers to Mac and PC visitors, but said the company isn't showing the same room to different users at different prices. They also pointed out that users can opt to rank results by price.

 

Orbitz found Mac users on average spend $20 to $30 more a night on hotels than their PC counterparts, a significant margin given the site's average nightly hotel booking is around $100, chief scientist Wai Gen Yee said. Mac users are 40% more likely to book a four- or five-star hotel than PC users, Mr. Yee said, and when Mac and PC users book the same hotel, Mac users tend to stay in more expensive rooms.

 

"We had the intuition, and we were able to confirm it based on the data," Orbitz Chief Technology Officer Roger Liew said.

As predictive analytics becomes more entrenched, soon phone companies will be charging iPhone users an additional 50% per call, "just because."

The effort underscores how retailers are becoming bigger users of so-called predictive analytics, crunching reams of data to guess the future shopping habits of customers. The goal is to tailor offerings to people believed to have the highest "lifetime value" to the retailer.

 

Orbitz first confirmed Mac users' preferences in October and began working them into the complicated mix of factors that determine its search results. The effect isn't always obvious. In tests performed by The Wall Street Journal, search results for hotels in cities including Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia and Boston were the same for both Macs and PCs. A New York search turned up more expensive hotels for Mac users, but only after the first 20 listed.

So far this type of order prejudice appears to have only impacted Orbitz.

Rival travel sites Expedia Inc., Priceline.com Inc. and Travelocity, which is a unit of Sabre Holdings Corp., don't use a person's computer operating system when suggesting hotels, spokesmen said. Apple declined to comment.

Of course, now that Orbitz' "platform targetting" has been exposed, the company can say goodbye to its Mac user base. However, this will hardly be the last time that the "aspiration" consumer segment known as the Macerati is targeted:

Apple users already stand out as big spenders. Nearly half of retailers in a recent study by Forrester Research and Shop.org said users of tablets—a large majority of which are iPads—tend to place bigger online orders than users of laptops or desktops. Shoppers on Apple devices like iPhones also outspend shoppers using Android or BlackBerry devices, accounting for half of all mobile purchases, according to International Business Machines, which tracks data from retailers.

 

Fashion site Rue La La pays close attention to iPhone and iPad users, who account for 75% of all of its mobile orders, said CEO Ben Fischman.

Which of course means one last thing: soon some journalist will discover that credit card companies targeted Mac users almost exclusively, and that the average Apple buyer is either to their neck in student loans (federally funded of course), or has $25,000 more in credit card debt than the guy next door running PC... and $50,000 more than the guy around the block still slaving under (a far more nimble version of) Linux.

Step aside class, gender and religion wars: here come the OS wars, or who can outspend everyone else, still have the "coolest gadgets", and merely live month to month.

But hey: if one must impress people one doesn't like, and whose operating systems one has no idea how to use, with stuff that makes one spend more money by default, so be it. One doesn't become an aspirational upper-class poseur by not having a Retina screen.

 

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Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:47 | 2560075 Waffen
Waffen's picture

Mac users like all liberals are image over substance type people. no suprise here

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:53 | 2560094 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sorry, I am very conservative and have been a UNIX and LINUX user for years.  Using MAC on the front end of the business ever since they gave us (anyone with real computer skills) access via the underlying UNIX platform.  I still use LINUX servers for all our data/financials but I manage these closely and only a couple IPs have direct access to these secure servers, but the damn "point and click" generation likes to do just that.  Thinking, not so much...

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:12 | 2560135 sunaJ
sunaJ's picture

iSmug tax

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:16 | 2560145 Kitler
Kitler's picture

Goldman Sachs embarking on a Mac muppet drive in 3, 2, 1...

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:30 | 2560178 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

The system is made to be worked.

 

I charge everything I buy, and I mean everything to my Starwood Preffered Guest AMEX and rack up enough points for 2 free weeks at the Kaanapali Westin every year.  Oil changes, gas, groceries, clothes, everything.  And pay it off in full every month. 

 

They make zero interset off me.  I go to Maui.  

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:38 | 2560194 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Agreed - Starwood Preferred has been the hot CC for the past couple of years...but, the hell w/ the Kaanapal...the upgrades for Starwood Platinums in Asia makes Hawaiian SPG upgrades look like a crap in your hand (I lived many years in Hawaii).

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:44 | 2560225 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Well, I live in Seattle and hate long plane rides.  And I love Hawaii.  I might check out Asia one day.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:59 | 2560269 Rahm
Rahm's picture

Apple is what is wrong with this world.  From foxconn to the surveillance of their products, to their icrap they push out to the masses.  The world would be a better place without apple.

-sent from my ipad

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:08 | 2560304 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

Keyboards are tough when yer missin a finger...

 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:29 | 2560486 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Regardless of whether you are in favor of PC or Mac, the fact that a company such as Orshitz would stoop to such lows and prey upon its own customers deserves a visit from Anonymous. Let's see how much they can charge their ex-customers when their site is down.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:57 | 2560533 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

They're not praying on them. They're not holding a gun to their heads. People with more money than brains and all that.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:57 | 2560598 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Perhaps preying is too strong a word but they are gauging customers by not providing the best price available while telling their customers that it's the best price available. Perhaps fraud is a better word.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:58 | 2560601 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

why just mac users?

charge them depending on zipcode's median income.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:11 | 2560614 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Given that my generation has no brains and are just a bunch of iDummies waiting to spend our last dollar for some crap, er, app, perhaps at least we can spell. Unless you meant praying for us? I doubt by the context it was a fat finger; or maybe it was, but when insulting people for being stupid, use the right word: preying. Oh yeah spell check doesn't detect context. Maybe some Mac user will make an app for that. That would be ironic.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:17 | 2561203 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

this ZH article is like socialism

...where the incompetent ignorant garbage (Microshit) disses capitalism and the productive leaders (Apple)

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:04 | 2560810 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

A fool and his money are soon parted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIHKI_gd3iA 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:20 | 2561214 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Yes the fools have been herded into Microshite for 2 decades

they're soo stupid they just don't see out of the (cattle) box and don't know any better poor sods

a week on Apple and any of these blinkered cows would see just what a load of crap they've been fleeced into with the global monopolist garbage from Gates & Bulmer

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 19:50 | 2563305 mkkby
mkkby's picture

True conrad. 

They show you the "preferred" matches first.  If you're dumb enough to buy that, so sorry.  You can click "lowest price" sort and see what the other choices are.  You can also cross check with the hotel web sites and other travel sites... it's called shopping around -- and non dummies, non lazies do that regularly.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:05 | 2561164 smithcreek
smithcreek's picture

You've completely missed the point.  Even without trying to get them to spend more, Mac users actively seek out more expensive options when booking.  So Orbitz figured this out and is now going to present Mac users with the more expensive choices they wanted in the first place.  Not exactly evil.  If a customer drove up to an auto dealer in a BMW, what would a salesperson assume they were interested in looking at, a luxury vehicle or a sub-compact?  It's not Orbitz that is stupid or evil, it's paying all that money for a high end Mac when 99.9% of the population could get by on a low end PC.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 10:05 | 2561357 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Orbitz think Apple-users want to pay more? ...so it's Apple-users fault they pay more, not Orbitz for deliberately providing them with higher prices???

that's a marketing strategy? ...are these Orbitz boys fuking thick or what!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:22 | 2560357 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

haha love it 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:32 | 2560381 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

No worries just roll with it.  log on to Orbitiz on an old Commodore 64 or Tandy 1000 to buy next plane ticket.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:29 | 2560487 Matt
Matt's picture

Did anyone ever make a web browser for C-64? Holy hell, there really are several C-64 web browsers out there, some even with CSS support! 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:10 | 2560310 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

You pay for your own stuff?

Peasant.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:29 | 2560175 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

A big +1 LoP..   and a shout out to FreeBSD,  Luv that OS.. 

 

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 02:25 | 2560666 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

Linux is King. I nearly scream when i start fixing peoples Windows machines on average i fix about 6  X windows 7 machines a year and this is just friends and familly. If they are clued up I put a linux partition on their machine with a shared folder for placing/sharing all their downloads etc The problems are usually virus related or just too damn slow. Often the biggest problems are the various type of anti virus people use and pop up adds screaming at you from every bit of software you ever add to the laptop. Apple pay thousands of developers to prevent you getting full access to the full array of file types your machine can use. Case in point Calibre(open source book reader) uses all ebook types epub, mobi and pdf etc and does all the conversions.. the only complete ebook solution. Apple users are people that love being seperated from their money even my 11 year old daughter just laughs at Apple users with her android phone(linux kernal) with 500 of the best childrens books ever written.

I often think that the financial world could learn so much from the principles of the open source community. Without disrespect I have to agree with the words of the real hero Richard Stallman when commenting on the achievement of Steve Jobs was the marketing ability to "Make a Jail look cool"

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 06:15 | 2560780 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

I have been running Ubuntu linux on a partitioned pc with a dual operating system for several years and have never had any headaches that PC users mention. I have gotten so use to it that I rarely ever use the Windows portion. Maybe once every couple of months.The last time was to log on so I could walk someone on the phone through a process, (who needed to remove a virus) and I wanted to describe to them how to do it.

I gave my Grandaughter (who grew up using a PC) an Everex Notebook running linux when she was ten or eleven. Without any instruction from me she figured out how to use and install all the software and to tweak it in ways that I didin't even know about. It can't be too difficult if she figured it all out on her own.

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 06:48 | 2560800 Seer
Seer's picture

I grew up with UNIX.  But... I don't have the time to be running around looking for apps and assorted bits and pieces for Linux: I do, however, have it (Ubuntu) as a second partition on my home computer; I installed it years ago with the intention of switching away from MS totally- got sidetracked (lack of some key apps), and never made the cut-over.

At a minimum people should have a copy of Knoppix (may be other variants out there, I've lost touch a bit).  You can boot it off a CD.  Very handy when Windows craps and you need to reach in and get important files: I've never tried to boot Knoppix off of an Apple machine, so no idea (but seems most probable).  There's other cool stuff about it as well, but for most this would be the biggie.

Like you, I also end up bailing people out (though as the years pass I'm more out of the loop because I've been far removed from computing for quite some time).  As for myself, I've never had any problem in over six years with my XP machine (which I built): and I don't really spend any time messing with it (knock on wood/head).

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:56 | 2560101 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Buying Apple products is a sign of ignorance, incompetence, elitisim, cultism, and everything bad that you shouldn't be doing. BAD MR. KITTY! BAAAD MR. KITTY!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:17 | 2560150 Kitler
Kitler's picture

Somebody is screaming for a good skullfucking

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:22 | 2560164 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

You can skullfuck me all you want, but Unix (or any other homemade OS) > Windows > Apple. Apple is the shit tier of operating systems... why do you even bother?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:46 | 2560230 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

A mac user and his money are easily parted.

 

Jobs knew this. 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:08 | 2560448 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

That's right. And you're missing the most important part, corporations are SPYING on us, in order to SELL US THEIR SHIT!  Whoda Thunkit?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:11 | 2560316 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Apple is overpriced and fascist to the core (pun intended), but they have better OS design than Linus or Bill.

I'm assuming you don't actually write code for a living.

 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:21 | 2560349 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

I do everything from babysitting and dishwashing to designing circuit boards to programming high-performance clusters, so yep, I do write code for a living, directly or indirectly. The only good idea Apple had was about the dock, and that had already been popularized as an addition to the Linux OS as early as 05 if I remember correctly.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:02 | 2560538 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

UGH, you SOOOOOO just don't get it. I mean, like, cmon brah. Apple is so kewl.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:11 | 2560550 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

The dock feature was already out in the late 80s and early 90s in a more basic version (due to graphics hardware limitations):

http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline3.html

Just because the developers at Apple and a group of people developing Linux desktop environments made it look good first, doesn't mean they did it first.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:02 | 2560537 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

Mac OS is based on BSD (with closed and open source components), and Unix (of which BSD is a variant) wasn't homemade - it was made at Bell Labs by AT&T. Linux is the, arguably, "personal" variant of the kernel.

So based on your logic, Mac OS would be better than Windows.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:03 | 2560809 Seer
Seer's picture

Ding, ding!  We have a winner! (though Linux is not based on BSD, but FreeBSD is; this all gets nitpicky,)

My first exposure to UNIX was earlier BSD running on Digital Equipment machines, rather rough back then (especially running as corporate production machines, which is really the only place outside of the academic environment that it existed).  This will really date me, but, I once used a Sun Microsystems workstation whose serial number was 100.

Nowadays I'm more into hardware, like tractors...

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:28 | 2560174 Confused
Confused's picture

I'm sure your $200 net book isn't throwing off the "average" in this little gem of useless info. 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:43 | 2560217 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

$300, bro, with Ubuntu 10.04 LTS / GNOME 2. My little single core 1.6 GHz process performs more miracles through the code I write than your latest and greatest 2.x GHz quad core does surfin the internet and sitch.

Computing is greatly misunderstood by all, even including those who study and design it.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:52 | 2560415 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

And with the free Mac OSX Theme for Ubuntu I have the look and feel of a $1200 Macbook.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:18 | 2560468 Popo
Popo's picture

Anyone with a modicum of computer know how can change their browser useragent to spoof any platform under the sun. A Mac user can very easily surf using OSX Chrome and pretend to be surfing using IE.

For the record, I just checked Orbitz from a Mac, and then a pc on a different IP address, using private browsing sessions and found identical prices.

Not calling bullshit, but certainly not seeing any first hand evidence of this yet. At least not here in SE Asia.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 10:21 | 2561414 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"a modicum of computer know how"

Please don't insult those of us with a modicum of computer know-how, it requires more like 1/10th of an iota of reading comprehension, google-use, and button-clicking abilities.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:30 | 2560488 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How much time did you spend to get that effect, how much time to you spend maintaining your computer, and how much is your time worth to you?

If you could do this in a few minutes, with no need for maintenence, congratulations.  If you spent days or weeks configuring your machine, but consider your time to be worthless, then also congratulations.  If you spent and continue to spend a great amount of time on it, and consider your time valuable, then I hope you value your smugness highly.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 02:12 | 2560660 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

Ahh, ubuntu is very use-friendly unlike some other distribs. Except for finding drivers, which could be a headache to find, it is very easy to install. I like knoppix though - mostly using it from USB stick. I don't get Mac OS look and feel, which I don't give a damn about, but I get quite agile and stable OS. Rest is BS, every OS has its pros and cons, no need to worship any of them.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:43 | 2560218 who-is-john-galt
who-is-john-galt's picture

I think you misspelled Windows.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:58 | 2560267 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

W I N D O Z E

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:43 | 2560397 Haole
Haole's picture

whoops

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:44 | 2560400 Haole
Haole's picture

Epitomized by writing unsubstantial BS like that with such an avatar.  Look who's talking, hypocrite.  ;)

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:33 | 2560766 joao
joao's picture

Its not about the OS. Its customer profiling.

This type of profiling and price changing is done widepread across the net.

When I book my airline tickets online there are some weird price changes from one minute to the other on the same flight. changes in price can be justified by the online booking system but not to that extent.

I thought everyone knew this

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:00 | 2560806 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

FORM FOLLOWS FUNCTION!!!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:48 | 2560078 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

My Mac is 10years old and i'm not rich....bummer

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:42 | 2560210 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

I would be a bit richer now if I had bought my Mac 10 years ago.

 I completely wasted 5 years screwing around with PCs that didn't work until I finally bought my MacBook 5 years ago.

 

 Opportunities were lost.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:53 | 2560254 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yup, though I find my productivity gains are somewhat blunted by my urge to participate in Mac vs. PC debates.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:15 | 2560338 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Stem the tide of acrimony and install VMware...then you can suffer with every shitty operating system.

 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:48 | 2560079 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Who the fuck buys luxury vacations from Orbitz?

People who use that site are poor.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:50 | 2560084 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I can't afford to use that site.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:52 | 2560088 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

For comparison purposes I would like this data juxtaposed against OS users from American Express.

Bet we get night/day results.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:56 | 2560097 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Fair enough.

My vacation this year was riding bikes with my son to the nearest state park (about 17 miles each way), avoiding the new fees becasue we were on bikes, taking a nap in the shade, riding back, and stopping at the Mexican supermarket for tacos and Jaritos.

 

sent from my $250 white box linux computer desktop

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:57 | 2560105 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Nothing wrong with that.

People who are trying to buy a luxury resort from Orbitz, or Priceline, are probably trying to live above their means and probably doing so on credit in most cases.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:59 | 2560109 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I'm just yankin' yer chain.

Although that was my vacation.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:04 | 2560116 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Sounds like a fantastic vacation Spas. I wish every dad would do that with their kids.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:47 | 2560219 knukles
knukles's picture

Fuck that.
I took my son on a drug and alcohol fueled binge starting in NYC and terminating in Las Vegas about 4 weeks later that was shrouded in extended blackouts, pissing in our pants, being thrown out of super high end stays, tossing our salad out windows, setting several hotel rooms on fire, probably insulting and offending lots of nice people, setting up porn subscriptions to the homes of people that'd pissed us off and lots of other fun things.  I've raised him to be self sufficient.  He even has his own bail bond card!

Actually, we just stayed home and golfed for a week.
Hell, I don't even drink or smoke.
We told lots of jokes and cooked some really great meals.

Oh and BTW, with that ORBITZ crap, that's discriminatory as all hell and probably in violation of numerous laws violating privacy, segmentation of market and even possibly some anti trust statutes.

Let's have the boys in DC do something about it!
Call some hearings, start investigations, collect some more campaign contributions while the wrong shit that's making America Great continues unabated.

Makes me want to go on a drug and alcohol fueled....

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:05 | 2560294 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Yes !
I'm not one to recommend drugs and alcohol, but it's always worked for me.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:32 | 2560380 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Skateboarder loves beers and smokes pot, as every skateboarder should. He would take his son on an alcoholic, pot-fueled skate trip when the son turned 18. What better way to learn from dad, that beer and skateboarding do not go together...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 03:40 | 2560709 kiwidor
kiwidor's picture

I've always looked pretty old.. started drinking in bars when i was 14.  never got asked for ID til i was 32 and entering a nightclub in australia.

My Dad used to take me to drug and alcohol fueled parties, and we'd go to the pub often enough before I left home.

One night we staggered out of a pub at 2am and neither of us were fit to drive, so he tossed a coin, I lost, and drove home.  I was 15.  There was no rush to get home, so no problems.  

 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:17 | 2560311 Haole
Haole's picture

"...tossing our salad out windows..."

You know, you and your son could take that "show" on the road and likely have all your holidays paid for, right?

The web-based pay-per-use/subscription model for the "community" into that could be huge until they get tired of the same two "tossers"...

How did you get your son interested in salad tossing with Dad anyway?

I can't stop laughing, maybe it's just the vodka but thanks.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:41 | 2560206 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Sounds very California. Not only did they bump the SP fees, but they closed off all the free parking spots on PCH so that you have to either park inside and pay, or park a mile away.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:49 | 2560242 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

West Coast!

Yay.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:01 | 2560436 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

One year I bought a POS sailboat and drifted down the
East coast reading,drinking and fishing. ( should of brought a metal detector. ) I "fixed" the boat as I went and sold it for double, which wasn't much. I didn't spend $100/wk. Lost a loght of weight and felt way better mentally.
I got a call years later from a Sheriff's department that the boat was abandoned. Kind of felt bad for it because I had a lot of minor adventures and it never let me down.
Next time way more books!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:56 | 2560100 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

your first comment is spot on.  We vacation a couple times a year.  Always a couple weeks in Deer Valley.  $1,200 a night is a no brainer and a great deal in my book.  Worry free and includes the best ski gear, which is good since the damn airlines want your first born to travel with any outdoor gear.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:57 | 2560104 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

You ride Stöcklis too, huh?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:02 | 2560113 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Have no idea what the fuck you are talking about, and my wife is German.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:07 | 2560122 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Sorry - skis. Swiss skis. I think I didn't read your comment properly.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:55 | 2560596 Bill the Cat
Bill the Cat's picture

Pfthwibt!?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:13 | 2560459 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

I can't afford vacations. Even when I WAS working.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:51 | 2560087 Lost Wages
Lost Wages's picture

Mac users are so horrible, liking things that don't suck. How dare they!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:46 | 2560221 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

I upped you because it is a good system that makes the sheeple happy, but, Mac users embrace an "idiot proof" system that works great but requires little intelligence...same as watching reality TV...flame on you Mac fan boys..but, I have been programming since 1973 & know more about computers than you do...& also their clients.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:56 | 2560259 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, you know more about PROGRAMMING than he does.  I would bet a silver dollar that he knows more than you about USING computers.  Do mechanics look down on people who don't change their own oil (presumably because they have better things to do)?  Probably, but those people tend to be more successful than those same mechanics.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:15 | 2560280 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

No, I doubt anyone on this site knows more about USING computers that I do - I hacked before anyone knew what that even was - going back 30 - 40 years - I made MILLIONS of dollars because I could make the early internet business connections that the inept Fortune 500's were just drooling to make.

I retired in my early 40's...& I owe most of it to my computer expertise - & So we are clear Mr. Mosley - Fuck Macs - Fuck that idiot consumer fanboy culture - save your fucking money & buy something that has 2X the power @ 1/2 the price.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:15 | 2560336 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hacking is programming.  You don't know shit about using them. You shouldn't have to know much of anything to be able to use a computer to increase your productivity.  You have the classic programmer's mentality that a man should adapt to his tools, rather than the other way around.

lol, you made millions in the internet bubble.  Big deal.  Might as well brag about the great houses you flipped during the housing bubble and claim that you know what people like in a house.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:49 | 2560405 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Always funny to see the mac fanboys profess their superior system - which is still designed primarily for a 1 button mouse (worse design choice EVAR).

 

Regarding your critique of the previous poster, hacking is but one type of programming, but from what he was describing, he did quite a bit more than that.  And frankly, making millions during the bubble was easy for the bankster and CEO pukes pumping and backdating stocks, but has never been easy for honest, hard-working people.  The people who actually MAKE stuff are practically never so well paid.

 

Anyhow, Mac users should realize that a system designed for the lowest common denominator is basically very dumbed down and limiting for a power user.  Mac 'simplicity' is much like tweets for a philosopher: if your aspirations are low, then tweet away, but your pride is very much misplaced.

 

Beyond all that though is the question of how poorly Apple treats its users - like how 2 yrs ago they tried to take a HUGE cut (10%?) out of every content purchase made on their platform.  As they say, there's a sucker born every minute, and Apple is great at flattering the egos of their victims.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:14 | 2560461 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, you are criticizing the egos of others, while claiming to be some sort of philosopher.

What the fuck do you think a computer is for, exactly?  What EXACTLY can a PC do that a Mac can't , other than get infected over and over by every form of malware in existance and suck away at the users time?  Games don't count--we are talking about a tool for productivity, not masturbation.

I have used every major OS out there, and did so for at least one year each.  I chose Mac because it doesn't waste my time.  If you want to waste your time struggling with a product that attaches everything to everything else, such that if one thing breaks, everything breaks (and then loads it with bloatware), then by all means choose yourself a nice, cheap PC.  Just don't ask yourself why my all Mac lab--yes, laboratory, doing scientific things, not just email and word processing(our HPLC is run by a 15 year old Mac that has been on continuously  without a problem for the last five years straight)--requires literally ZERO IT support while the rest of my department requires so much that they have three full time IT staffers.

"Power user" lol.  Is that like a "Master" bater?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:55 | 2560594 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

As it happens, I have painstakingly (and happily) read many dozens of real philosophy books (ie: not BS like Ayn Rand, but rather Nietzsche, Foucault, etc.), so I'd say I know something about philosophy, but frankly one shouldn't need all that much education to understand the difference between philosophical texts (where a sentence can easily be half a page long and ideas are so complex that they take hundreds of pages to elaborate) and a tweet.  In any case, making that comparison didn't imply anything about myself being a philosopher, hence I think your criticism is invalid.

 

As far as power-user software that does not exist on Mac, as a high level programmer I can tell you that Mac has nothing like Visual Studio + Resharper, which together let you refactor and navigate code LIKE A BAWS.  UI-layer-wise, Mac has NOTHING like .net and WPF.  Want the very best power tools for database management (ie: stuff light years beyond the crappy web-based UI that comes with Oracle)?  Good luck finding it on Mac. (and I could go on and on with more examples)

 

Are you OK being limited to less than 10% of the software that is available on PC (or on Linux as open source, nearly)?  Sure, sooner or later the most critical and popular stuff will get replicated to Mac, but the opportunity costs of waiting are significant.  Evidently, you don't spend much time looking for innovative software, or you would likely be bothered by the lack of Mac software (and I'm not talking games).

 

I studied biochemistry originally and worked in a number of research labs, so I know something of the software scientists mostly use: Excel and Word.  So you used spreadsheets on 3 different OS's - does that make you feel LIKE A BAWS?  And frankly, you truly are a hard-core neophyte if you think you can master anything in a year.

 

I build my own PC's and never have trouble with stuff breaking down (I pick good components, unlike Dell), and you obviously don't know much about PC architecture if you don't see how modular it is and claim that "if one thing breaks, everything breaks" - that's only 'till you replace the broken component, just like a Mac...  Oh, and for a POWER USER, having a near infinite number of configurations for your hardware is a huge plus, whereas for a NOOB it's overwhelming.

 

Anyhow, don't expect another reply from me: arguing with Mac fanboys is pointless.  Enjoy planning your more expensive trips on your more expensive, more limited platform!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:59 | 2560747 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

oh the egos on display.  and i thought a financial site would have the pissing contests about portfolio management, but its like stalingrad vs. walmart on black friday.

p.s. i can't find my ass with both hands, one on the mouse and one on the keyboard.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:07 | 2561171 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hurr durr Ima prugrimmer n if u cnt prugrim den u r teh newb, durr.

You are a child.  I don't have time to write my own programs like I don't have time to design and build my own cars.  I choose a car that is low maintenence and works every time I need it, that doesn't have fundamental design flaws like exploding when the bumper is tapped from behind.

All the software on PC is jammed together in the worst method imaginable.  Installing something new is like playing Russian Roulette, in that it might overwrite some file that some other program needs.  X breaks Y is COMMON on PC.  But PC must be superior because you can program on it, and anyone who uses any other platform is a newb, no matter what they use it for.

You want people who use computers for simple productivity reasons to struggle with your shitty platform because you are a sad, bitter person :(

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 10:32 | 2561443 GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

You are all idiots, I too am a software engineer that has a Mac but runs arch-linux on my vm and have contributed code to OpenBSD many moons ago.

Macs are unparalleled, even Linus uses a macbook air. All this talk about performance and programs is ridiculous, 80% of you use your computer for internet surfing and the occasional word document exclusively.

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 10:32 | 2561444 GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

You are all idiots, I too am a software engineer that has a Mac but runs arch-linux on my vm and have contributed code to OpenBSD many moons ago.

Macs are unparalleled, even Linus uses a macbook air. All this talk about performance and programs is ridiculous, 80% of you use your computer for internet surfing and the occasional word document exclusively.

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:57 | 2560896 Seer
Seer's picture

I've got a Windoze XP machine that has given me no problems since I built it some six years ago.  It's running ALL the time (running a VOIP app, my only phone).  My wife can tell you how little I like to mess with computers: I can be heard cussing about our shitty Internet connection from time to time- living in the rural hinterlands, our options here are pretty poor; this is NOT an OS issue.

Was going to convert over to Linux (Ubuntu - wanted to extract myself from all corporate computing stuff) about five years ago but found that I didn't want to spend the time doing so: had legacy apps that weren't readily available under Ubuntu, or were really involved in order to get to work.  And now days I would rather spend money on tractor implements than new bright and shiny computing stuff.  Yup, my old shit gets the job done, and with minimal effort and cost.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:36 | 2561278 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

we ran on XP for years at my business because it was the only stable platform.. when i say Microshite was "stable" that's relative, to garbage ..it still had to be rebooted 3 times a day

then there's my 20 year long personal experience of Microshite PC's an laptops... when i say "experience" that's another relative term to the garbage Gates & Bulmer shit out.. i'd call it torture

Gates & Bulmer have been masterful in monopolising retail channels and squeezing out or buying all competition so as the truly dumbed.down consumer can't see anything else and don't know any better (like the cool smooth uber-reliable Apple)

these monopolists are like Govt with the roads, you get used to llving with incompetent shit so long you can't see out the box, it's the way it's always been

i think the words getting around, Apple could be on the cusp of a wave to takeover laptops and PC's ...Microshite are a toxic brand with a ticking time-bomb under their garbage software.. sooner consumers are shown the light the better for the whole planet

Gates & Bulmer should be shot in the nose (after being tarred and feathered of course) for over 2 decades of commercial corruption and the greatest dis-service to taking humanity forward in technology ..we could have a mass execution with all the moronic incompetent Govt traffic planners around the globe

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:38 | 2561083 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

What EXACTLY can a PC do that a Mac can't

 

Play games like this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ-2leHqbE0

 

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:40 | 2561285 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

little boys with their toys

this (ZH) is an adult channel.. why not f off to Kindergarten and let the Apple users have an adult conversation about how crap Microshite is

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:37 | 2560359 Haole
Haole's picture

Exactly.  I can't remember how many issues I had with PCs over the years, how many crashes, how much lost data, photos, hardware replacements, tech issues, etc., etc., etc.

Over six years using MacBooks and not one crash, not one freeze, not one problem.  Not one.  The odd Option/Command/Esc has been the worst of it.  Worth the price of admission, not to mention ease of usability, despite what anyone has to say in dirision.

I'd rather not use Orbitz than own a PC again, other than a cheap, expendable netbook for adventure traveling, that's for damn sure.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:09 | 2560721 kiwidor
kiwidor's picture

and that's pretty much the attitude of every mac owner & user i've ever met. no one has a word of complaint.

they work.  and you don't have to spend hours tweaking them.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:12 | 2560752 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

well i have one complaint.  the jack from my headphones broke and stuck in the back of the imac.  the whole motherboard (or something -- don't quote me and see above) had to be replaced for $800.  still, i do like it and did buy another for my granddaughter.  don't use headphones anymore though.

i also liked the comment above about not having to adapt to one's tools.  p.s. will google ever understand grammar or will it always just find word matches?  and not even able to indicate clearly the matches in the retrieved data.  and this is worth what capitalization?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:46 | 2561296 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

exactly Gentleman

no amount of garbage articles from ZH (from Reggie or others) can take away the decades of suffering at the hands of peddlers of shit, Gates & Bulmer

and no amount of spitting their dummies outta the pram can take away the immediate and tremendous (customer) satisfaction the day you buy your Apple... and the smugness just builds year after faultless year

Apple is pretty amazing, up there with the very best brands like BMW, Caterpillar and JCB

Garbage is garbage.

Class is class.

No amount of lightweights blowing hot air out their arses (ie. propaganda) can change the truth

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:55 | 2560090 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

I bet TurboTax users with Zerohedge cookies on their machines get their returns audited at a higher frequency, too.

Geithner says fuck you!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:02 | 2560115 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Cookies?

The ZH box should be just as secure as the box one uses to sail the high seas on the good ship Louise.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 20:51 | 2560092 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

Hell, if you are going to pay the premium for a fashionable music player, why not everything else?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:01 | 2560108 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

My Mac Book Pro may be the single best investment I have ever made.

 I have had a couple of Dells, and the Hewlett-Packard, and before them I started with a Gateway,

 they were all an unmitigated disaster, all of them were crashing every time I tried to use them,

 and accomplishing anything on the computer became impossible.

 My MacBook has performed flawlessly for the past 5 years.

  It was money well spent.

 

 I am not wealthy, and refuse to spend anymore than I have to on anything.

 Especially vacations!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:02 | 2560114 SoCalBusted
SoCalBusted's picture

Then you must be Mr. Replace.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:14 | 2560126 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

Generally speaking,

no, I am not Mr. Replace,

 I've been driving the same car for 34 years,

 I live in the house that I built,

 and I like things that are built to last.

 

 I simply had very, very bad luck with PCs.

 

 As long as my MacBook works as well as it does today,

 I will use it for life.

 I never replace things that work.

 

By the way, as my name does imply,

 I do in fact repair things for a living,

 and as such I have great respect for things that are well-built.

 

 Although admittedly most of my income is the result of things that are built like crap.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:12 | 2560321 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

I've been driving the same car for 34 years

The '78 Volare is a keeper, that's for sure

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:52 | 2560414 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

"I've been driving the same car for 34 years"

 

Actually, it's a 69 Mustang convertible, and it's as much fun as it ever was.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:52 | 2560523 Itch
Itch's picture

You're right, you just had "very, very bad luck with PC's", infact if all them Dells and HP's crashed every time you turned them on, then its just insane bad luck. Im left with the feeling when i listen to MAC users, that i have been incredibly lucky over the years never to have had any problems with my PC's. Im blessed i suppose. (and its not as if MACs don’t crash as well.. i have seen many die, it just depends what they are being used for)

When we go back to the early 90's i had lots of problems with PC's, but that’s only because the code was shit, i was ripping them apart, tinkering, re-assembling, and generally walking blindly through the valley of computer death. But back then MACs were useless, other than for using Adobe and Protools(i used to own one, stable, but when you left it on for a day or two, not so stable). For the record, i cant remember a time in the last ten years i have had a major problem with a leading brand PC. I think i have had 3 in that time. Currently running one now.

It maybe just a coincidence, but most MAC users i know are practically computer illiterate, gullible to gimmicks, and definitely would pay more for stuff without asking questions . Just an observation.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:47 | 2560645 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

I believe the reason Macs don't get viruses at the rate of PCs is because of the sheer number of PCs v. Macs. Macs only really became popular in the mid-2000s so trust me they are just as susceptible to viruses. They don't have some super immune system it's just no one has made them--yet. And when the viruses come good luck fixing your mac. Oh yeah you won't be able to. Once the viruses hit macs Apple's stock will plummet so get ready for some fun caus it wont be too far off before this happens. Especially since the level of Mac-hatred is rising and that is a post 2010 phenomenon. Macs look great, I admit. They look cool. They are easy to carry. It's all style. But once its breaks its broke. You can fix a PC. And you can download all sorts of software which isn't true for Macs. I just don't get it. macs are for people who like style but aren't looking for much computing power. That it.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 06:59 | 2560805 RallyRoundTheFamily
RallyRoundTheFamily's picture

This is beginning to change...

My 2 cents w/ IT experience

Macs run great, windows runs on any hardware.

The limited hardware a Mac has to run on increases its reliability, limited as in the OS and hardware are from same company.

Windows has to adapt to all hardware manufacturers and the virus thing Rick mentions, which makes it not so reliable.

I use PC and have very infrequent problems.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:52 | 2561125 Itch
Itch's picture

Exactly, its just a numbers game, more people use windows and more hackers use it too. Its the same scenario with Google Chrome, they claim to be 80% safer than IE, when really, IE is just more popular and more hackers try to work with it. Give it time, when people start chipping away at the code the flaws will show up. Otherwise the assumption is that Google programmers are smarter than Microsoft programmers, which is just gibberish.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:17 | 2561205 tmosley
tmosley's picture

25.68% is so much more than 25.47%.  Why would anyone bother with Chrome, with so few users?

lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 11:46 | 2561799 Itch
Itch's picture

Give it time. I use chrome myself, i also use firefox and IE from time to time. Personally, never been hacked on any of them.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:53 | 2561321 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Itch,  "Otherwise the assumption is that Google programmers are smarter than Microsoft programmers, which is just gibberish."

I don't know anyone that isn't smarter than a Microshite programmer.. the clowns of the iT world ...for decades ....more patches for every 'new' product than a 50 year old East German Trabbant

MS programmers are the worst in IT history. No contest. No argument.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 11:51 | 2561825 Itch
Itch's picture

Right, i'll take your word for it. I do have to take into consideration the workload of Microsoft programmers though, perhaps its also the corporation structure and management that holds them back. But claiming that Google programmers are smarter is just silly.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:15 | 2561191 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Incorrect.  Mac comes with ports disabled by default, meaning there is no way in without the user knowing what he is doing.  PC comes with numerous random services set to "on" for no reason.  Further, Mac runs almost everything in a sandbox, so one program doesn't have access to everything.  A Mac needs to be rooted to be compromised.  A PC needs to look at a picture on the internet.  Just plugging in an infected flash drive will allow code to be executed, which is fucking nuts.

Not sure how you think you can fix a virus infected PC, except maybe by wiping your hard drive and reinstalling Windows.  Can't really say how I would fix a virus infected Mac, since there has never been a case of one ever (the claim that they don't have the market share is BS, anything that claims to be immune to viruses paints a big crosshair on itself).  There have been trojans, but smart people can avoid those without much hassle or impediment.  Viruses can come from ANYWHERE.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:09 | 2560130 adr
adr's picture

You must be lucky, 100% of Macbook Pros from 5 years ago shiped with faulty Nvidia graphics chips Apple forced them to supply to get the laptop out on time. The hard drives failed quickly due to the excess heat, and there were many other issues. I haven't actually met an owner of a Macbook Pro that didn't have problems, ones Apple refused to aknowledge.

Still most owners of the faulty machines refused to blame Apple and just dealth with the second degree burns. Kind of like wearing a crown of thorns to pledge your allegiance to the kingdom of Jobs.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:06 | 2560155 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

Interesting, now that you mention it,

 my MacBook  Does run a bit hot from time to time.

 In fact at the moment my lap is rather warm.

 It's always been that way,

 sometimes I have to put a book on it under it.

If it starts to burn my lap, it usually means I have too many windows open,

 and that is usually when I start closing them.

 Then it cools off.

 It never occurred to me that wasn't normal.

 

 Maybe, just maybe, I will have to replace it someday.

 But since my experience with various PCs having a life span of approximately one year,

 of nothing but trouble,

 regardless of what happens tomorrow, I already got my monies worth.

 My daughter just bought a MacBook air,

 I like it.

 Someday I may get one too.

 

Edit:

 silly me, I had MarketWatch,  TF metals report,  Harvey Organ,  Max Keiser, and Zero Hedge   running simultaneously.

 It's running much cooler now that I exited all those other ones.

 

(PS,

I'm still playing the radio through my Mac, WABC radio in New York.

 It's hard to get a good a.m. radio station.

 I'll be listening to it all night long.)

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:52 | 2560649 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

No offense but you sound like a liar. Well I guess saying that is offensive. You are listening to WABC, a NYC radio station, and own a car in that city and built a house there? In NYC? Something smells funny and it sint your testes being fried by your Macbook. Hey at least they wont be able to proceate. i always look at the brightside.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:54 | 2560650 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

No offense but you sound like a liar. Well I guess saying that is offensive. You are listening to WABC, a NYC radio station, and own a car in that city and built a house there? In NYC? Something smells funny and it ain't your testes being fried by your Macbook. Hey at least they wont be able to procreate. i always look at the brightside. Maybe I'm wrong and if I am I apologize.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:22 | 2560761 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

as i said i'm nearly computer illiterate but i think there are ways of getting out of town radio stations through the computer (what will they think of next?).

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:37 | 2561081 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

I never said I lived in New York City.

 I live about 60 miles north in a place called Putnam county,

 and to make it even more confusing, on a mountaintop, deep into the woods.

 

  AM radio reception is virtually non-existent here at night,

 but at least my favorite stations stream their programming online.

 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 06:17 | 2560783 mt paul
mt paul's picture

my mac runs a bit hot

with multiple windows open too..

3 yrs on this machine..

but all it's used for 

is zero hedge

and lesbian porn ...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:58 | 2561335 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

i often have 15, 20 windows open and leave my laptop on 'sleep' for days and then i get a freeze-up so i have to shut down for proper ..that's the only glitch i've had

no virus, no software bugs, no deep-freeze porn surfing for midget regulators in leather g-strings

Apple is cool as a cucumber

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:13 | 2560131 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Sounds like you finally figured out how not to treat your computer like shit.

I knew a guy several years backed that swore his PC was piece of shit. I rec. someone to him to check it out. Well the guy I rec. said to me later...no shit his CPU was running like shit, he had all this fuckin' porn on there and because of the porn he got viruses.

Just sayin' sometimes it's not the hardware, sometimes it's the person using it.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:35 | 2560173 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

You may be onto something there,

 it seemed like my wife did not have much of a problem with her PC,

 it usually crashed as soon as I looked at it.

 Although porn was not the issue, viruses may have been.

 

 God only knows what you can pick up when you're surfing all these financial blogs.

 I was told that Macs were somewhat virus proof,

 in my experience, that seems to be true,

 

 and although I am somewhat computer illiterate,

 for example I don't even know what viruses are,

 or what they do,

 so I guess I'm just better off not really having to deal with them at all.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:50 | 2560588 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

I wouldn't count on OSX as being virus-proof.  The more people that invest in iGadgets, the more the virus writers are rubbing their hands together with glee.  They've already got viruses written, and there are very few OSX anti-viral programs out there.

This message was typed on a 5 year old laptop PC that survived a fall down a flight of stairs with absolutely no problems as a result.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:34 | 2560186 Confused
Confused's picture

Based on my computer experience, you have the nail on the head. If the user is some what inept with computers, their machine will run like shit. 

I got my mom a mac. Since the environment is controller, I don't find myself fixing her machine every time I'm around. 

 

And lets face it. Its a preference thing for anyone who knows about computers. But they certainly are guilty of selling people an ideal. 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:01 | 2560273 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol PCs get viruses from porn.

It's like living in a world where Jews really do spread plague, by CHOICE.

Been fucking the internet without a condom for eight years now.  Virus count=0.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:28 | 2560569 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

you're chastizing people for using a computer to look at porn? why the fuck else would they have a computer?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:45 | 2560227 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Tend to agree, I enjoy my MBPro, but lack of serial port, and lack of support for USB-Serial adapters is turing out to be a cluster fuck.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:17 | 2560983 Seer
Seer's picture

The majority of problems are due to the "value add" crap that Dell, HP and Gateway would dump on PCs.  I've had ZERO issues with an XP machine that I built myself, not a SINGLE problem in over six years: well, I did recently reapply thermal grease for the CPU (was getting a bit noisy), but this wasn't an OS issue.

I'm NOT biased toward MS.  Actually, I grew up with UNIX, and I learned to hate MS!  And as mentioned previously, I'd love to switch over to LINUX (I'm too poor to switch to Apple; and, frankly, the entire idea of switching is based on extricating myself from any reliance on coporate entities), but just am too busy with other things (which are of higher priority) to do so.

My single best "investment?"  My wife! (next would be our tractor)

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:04 | 2560118 swamp
swamp's picture

Have more to pay more for VALUE. Apple users know value, and might have more to spend, but not carelessly.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:37 | 2560193 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Apple users are willing to spend 2K for a $600 dollar machine, and $600 for an $80 stock.

 

Like the lottery, it's a tax on stupid people.  (I do understand if you're in film production and what not, but the EMO chick at the coffee shop-not so much)

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:55 | 2560530 Matt
Matt's picture

Really, you think AAPL is only worth a P/E of 2, even with $100 billion in cash? That would put it at about a 14% dividend, too. 

As for the products, if you want value, buy a PC and install OS X on it for the best of both worlds.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:33 | 2561066 Seer
Seer's picture

In the entire scheme of things, yes, I think that APPL is worth less.  What was that Richard Stallman quote? “Steve Jobs, the pioneer of the computer as a jail made cool, designed to sever fools from their freedom, has died.”

Once upon a time people walking down the street hollering and gesturing to themselves were identified as being crazy.  Today, in this iCrap this iCrap that world, we have MANY people doing it and we no longer refer to such actions as being crazy.  Seems like both cases are found to be reacting to "voices inside their heads," both cases distracted from the here and now of the physical world.  Given this perspective I would have to ask whether APPL isn't a NET LOSS to humanity.  I suppose if you're talking about the world of fiat then, yes, APPL is worth LOTS!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:14 | 2560330 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

I would venture a guess that many Apple buyers spend more time considering which color they want it in than they do about any performance specifications or benchmarks.

And what is this "value" that you speak of? I paid $300 for a small netbook, paid nothing for Ubuntu linux, and I see very little reason to spend several thousand dollars so I can have an illuminated apple on the cover. I'm curious what value you see in Apple stuff that I'm not seeing. To me, it looks like garden-variety brand differentiation, and I really do have to hand it to Apple in their ability to create the kind of cultish following they've managed to achieve. 

P.S. I should add that I went to one of the first schools to require computers, and yes, they were Apples. Mac SE in particular. The thing crashed all the time, it was outrageously expensive, and there was almost no engineering/scientific software available at the time. They made a deal with the school to offer a miniscule discount, probably in hopes that like the Tobacco companies, that if they get 'em while they're young, they can have a customer for life. It didn't turn out that way, and most every engineer or scientist I know uses either PC or unix/linux today.

It was the artistic crowd that really fell in love with the Macs. I think the reason for this is that because Apple was the first to develop a graphical user interface, so it's fairly obvious why artistic types would gravitate towards Apple.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:49 | 2561115 Seer
Seer's picture

"most every engineer or scientist I know uses either PC or unix/linux today. It was the artistic crowd that really fell in love with the Macs."

I'm pretty certain that facts/reality backs this up.  Having served in the corporate manufacturing world I can attest to the fact that it was PCs and Linux boxes that engineers used to manage and write code for the automation of PC and Linux boxes that ran factory equipment.  And the marketing and tech writers tended towards Apple products: Apples had their chance to make greater inroads.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 20:00 | 2566879 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Yes, they did have their chance. But in the end, all they really had was a proprietary graphical user interface, which in the early days (not sure about now) was actually implemented in ROM, so it was literally not subject to change.

Nowadays, I can do absolutely everything a Mac/Apple can do, using a very nice graphical interface, for 1/10 the cost. Oh, and the software is free, if not bug-free. I've helped on a few open-source projects, and I believe that all these proprietary OSs and software are going to be relegated to the dustbin of history. Very soon.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:09 | 2560129 DougM
DougM's picture

Vacations are for people who get laid.  I wish ZH would stop posting these articles that we can not relate to.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:51 | 2560248 knukles
knukles's picture

"articles to which we cannot relate."

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:21 | 2560355 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Those dangling participles are A BITCH!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:01 | 2560606 piliage
piliage's picture

"I wish ZH would stop posting these articles that we can not relate to, asshole."

There, no more dangling participle.

Posted from a bullet proof think pad that I also use to drive nails and jack my car. Had one of those white Mac G3 and the damn thing was always hot to touch. Mother board crapped out 2 years and one week after purchase. The guarantee was for two years. I spit on your grave, Jobs.

 

 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:10 | 2560132 Bluesdog
Bluesdog's picture

It sucks paying a premium for something that works, has great support. The fact so many of us pay extra for Apple is a testament to their superiority and how shitty PC's are.

For those of not wanting to spend time getting computers to run correctly, there is no substitute for Apple. I bought our first at 49 and wish to hell it had been a lot sooner.

I bet most would upgrade to Apple if they could afford to, Linux folks not included, they are different breed altogether.

Bluesdog

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:07 | 2560298 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

You said it better than I did. 

 isn't it interesting how evenly split the votes are? 

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:24 | 2560473 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Great support. LMAO!!

 

Apple is for sum dum fuks who figure out only too late thay can't do this and can't do that. You can't do work on the effing thing unless you buy microsoft compatible this and still get effed trying to do drafting or interfaces with people who actually work for a living. But you can look cool eyeing porn at the starbucks over a $4 cup of joe. hahahahahaha!!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:25 | 2560477 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

Don't forget you can play angry birds too. lulz

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:12 | 2560620 AurorusBorealus
AurorusBorealus's picture

You're a tool.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:12 | 2560137 adr
adr's picture

In other words, Apple fans like to shove it in your face that they spent more for things that can be had for far less anywhere else.

Or they are just stone dead stupid.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:28 | 2560143 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Well duh... Within the general population Mac users are probably younger, singler, trendier, gayer, more "spiritual" and generally in possession of a greater amount of disposable income+willingness to part with it.

When that reservation via Mac shows up in the form of a young couple with a single kid in a Prius....time to brush off the deed to that bridge....

For a brief moment in time it was probably worth it to turn on the extra customer service charm if someone dialed in on a cell phone too.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:05 | 2560296 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Now there is your classic "butthurt PC user" reveling in selection bias.  He chose to use a PC, and it sucks ass, but because he chose it, it must have been the best choice.

I drive a beat up 19 year old pickup, but I have no fewer than 4 Macs in my home, and my lab is exclusively Mac, save for one guy who insisted on a PC.  It has had 10 times the problems of all the others put together (which, among ten computers over 6 years has been one faulty hard drive).

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:49 | 2560407 Mercury
Mercury's picture

No, I think the Mac is probably superior all the way around to the PC (although it took them long enough to suck it up and make a two-button mouse) but what I said above probably lines up pretty well with reality too.

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