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Here Come The OS Class Wars: Orbitz Finds Mac Users Spend More On Hotels Than Their PC Counterparts

Tyler Durden's picture


In a finding that many have subliminally known about for years, but never been actually proven, yet is still quite shocking, the WSJ is reporting that tourism portal Orbitz "has found that people who use Apple Inc.'s Mac computers spend as much as 30% more a night on hotels, so the online travel agency is starting to show them different, and sometimes costlier, travel options than Windows visitors see." Which is not really surprising: after all Mac users tend to "see" far pricier computers too, not to mention "buy." As a result, Orbitz has decided to automatically redirect Mac users: aka the rich, but gullible ones, to seeing hotel offers that are more expensive than those seen by PC users by on average $20-$30. Call it OS screening, and call it perfectly acceptable: because it appears, empirically, that Mac users are perfectly ok with spending more than they have to for virtually anything.

From the WSJ:

Orbitz executives confirmed that the company is experimenting with showing different hotel offers to Mac and PC visitors, but said the company isn't showing the same room to different users at different prices. They also pointed out that users can opt to rank results by price.


Orbitz found Mac users on average spend $20 to $30 more a night on hotels than their PC counterparts, a significant margin given the site's average nightly hotel booking is around $100, chief scientist Wai Gen Yee said. Mac users are 40% more likely to book a four- or five-star hotel than PC users, Mr. Yee said, and when Mac and PC users book the same hotel, Mac users tend to stay in more expensive rooms.


"We had the intuition, and we were able to confirm it based on the data," Orbitz Chief Technology Officer Roger Liew said.

As predictive analytics becomes more entrenched, soon phone companies will be charging iPhone users an additional 50% per call, "just because."

The effort underscores how retailers are becoming bigger users of so-called predictive analytics, crunching reams of data to guess the future shopping habits of customers. The goal is to tailor offerings to people believed to have the highest "lifetime value" to the retailer.


Orbitz first confirmed Mac users' preferences in October and began working them into the complicated mix of factors that determine its search results. The effect isn't always obvious. In tests performed by The Wall Street Journal, search results for hotels in cities including Las Vegas, Orlando, Philadelphia and Boston were the same for both Macs and PCs. A New York search turned up more expensive hotels for Mac users, but only after the first 20 listed.

So far this type of order prejudice appears to have only impacted Orbitz.

Rival travel sites Expedia Inc., Inc. and Travelocity, which is a unit of Sabre Holdings Corp., don't use a person's computer operating system when suggesting hotels, spokesmen said. Apple declined to comment.

Of course, now that Orbitz' "platform targetting" has been exposed, the company can say goodbye to its Mac user base. However, this will hardly be the last time that the "aspiration" consumer segment known as the Macerati is targeted:

Apple users already stand out as big spenders. Nearly half of retailers in a recent study by Forrester Research and said users of tablets—a large majority of which are iPads—tend to place bigger online orders than users of laptops or desktops. Shoppers on Apple devices like iPhones also outspend shoppers using Android or BlackBerry devices, accounting for half of all mobile purchases, according to International Business Machines, which tracks data from retailers.


Fashion site Rue La La pays close attention to iPhone and iPad users, who account for 75% of all of its mobile orders, said CEO Ben Fischman.

Which of course means one last thing: soon some journalist will discover that credit card companies targeted Mac users almost exclusively, and that the average Apple buyer is either to their neck in student loans (federally funded of course), or has $25,000 more in credit card debt than the guy next door running PC... and $50,000 more than the guy around the block still slaving under (a far more nimble version of) Linux.

Step aside class, gender and religion wars: here come the OS wars, or who can outspend everyone else, still have the "coolest gadgets", and merely live month to month.

But hey: if one must impress people one doesn't like, and whose operating systems one has no idea how to use, with stuff that makes one spend more money by default, so be it. One doesn't become an aspirational upper-class poseur by not having a Retina screen.


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Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:13 | 2560458 billsykes
billsykes's picture

they get their hardware off the same shelf. all they are is a design factory.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:16 | 2560464 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Good design is the difference between a usable tool and an unusable, unstable pile of shit, then.

Note that Apple pays a premium to pick up the first cuttings from silicone wafers.  Everyone else literally fights over the scraps from their table.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:06 | 2560591 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Apple uses  the same cpu's that pc's use. Intel, they're all cut from the same dies.The only custom chips are in their phones, no one else has access to those chips but Apple. No one fights over the scraps, there are none.

A wafer can only be cut once, all cuttings, are 1st cuttings.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:18 | 2560144 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

Divorce cleaned me out so throughly so I probably won't see another real vacation until I'm urinating in a gel-pack diaper, which should be years after the coming collapse and violence. Here's a tip for you younger ZHers--NEVER marry the daughter of a family law judge.


I do however, work in a sea of soybean fueled, Prius driving, NPR guzzling, skiny jeans wearing, newsboy hat owning, Mac user wanktards.  The TV industry is rife with these icompetent clowns, and they have absolutely no clue--whatsoever--of what is going on and the societal terrors that may soon come.  They live in a myopic, distracted, arrogant haze, their noses buried in their iPads and they squeal and smirk with faggotty abandon. They are incapable of making a decision about anything, which leaves us in visual effects having to clean up their goddamn mess. So yes, they're stupid enough to overpay for anything trendy.


I however, pefer to spend my money on guns and guitar gear. Shoot straight and sound huge, all Mac free.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:46 | 2560231 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

"faggotty abandon"


Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:47 | 2560235 BigMike
BigMike's picture

+10. LOL'ed. I have an iPhone and I think it's been money well spent. I hate faggots who wear newsboy hats and tell me deficits are no problem because krugman et al. said so.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:42 | 2560768 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

i know!  when will the faggots wearing newsboy hats shut up about the deficits being no problem and get back to deconstructing musical theater where they belong?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:05 | 2561165 Seer
Seer's picture

Well, I don't feel threatened by "faggots," or by "newsboy hats" for that matter.  Deficits, on the other hand...  If I'm remembering correctly, I seem to recall Dick Cheney telling us (was this before Krugman?) that deficits didn't matter; and, I'm also thinking, despite the fact that one of his offspring has a "gay problem," that Dick Cheney isn't a faggot (nor has been seen wearing a newsboy hat).

Funny, the very high priests of tech that seem to create these "newsboy hat-wearing faggots" are idolized, while the underlings aren't.  Divide and conquer...

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:08 | 2560303 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You sure you just don't pretend that is the way they are to make yourself feel superior, due to your utter failure in every other aspect of your life?

Suggest you tell the bitch to pound sand, go buy a Macbook, and leave the US so she can't get at your money.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:59 | 2560429 Mr. Fix
Mr. Fix's picture

The fools you describe are obviously not Zero Hedge readers.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:32 | 2560574 kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

wow you sound like a champ

blogging about economic collapse from my 4 year old macbook

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 06:44 | 2560796 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

+1 Thanks for the laughs. But it's not what you use, but what you do with it, no? Our own WB7 uses a Mac I think. But yeah, none of this should come as a surprise to anyone remotely interested in computers. 


Apple users are about to be fleeced by the company they love (again). Apparently the new iphone 5 will have docking ports that will be incompatible with all the expensive peripherals and accessories they've been buying. It's the oldest trick in the book to rip off customers.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:16 | 2560820 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

I am determined linx user, but as I recall, about 20 years ago Apple had a lock on the graphics industry. Every print shop in town used Apple for graphics. It became embedded in their culture....

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:16 | 2560146 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

"Which of course means one last thing: soon some journalist will discover that credit card companies targeted Mac users almost exclusively, and that the average Apple buyer is either to their neck in student loans (federally funded of course), or has $25,000 more in credit card debt than the guy next door running PC... and $50,000 more than the guy around the block still slaving under (a far more nimble version of) Linux."




they make more money.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:15 | 2560623 piliage
piliage's picture

Here is what I see in my line of work.

1) The communications and marketing people all have apple

2) The engineers, researchers, and C-suite generally have PCs

3) upper management still mostly use blackberry (corporate standard)

4) XP is still the most popular OS by far, at least from our hard login data.


Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:16 | 2560148 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

The only people more annoying than red sox fans are apple users.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:35 | 2560185 Mercury
Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:49 | 2560241 toomanyfakecons...
toomanyfakeconservatives's picture

In Boston, they are one in the same.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:30 | 2560176 stock trout
stock trout's picture

Maybe this explains why I see so many Motel 6 and Walmart ads on my PC running Windows Vista.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:01 | 2560536 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Thanks for the laugh! Most of what people regard as funny around here doesn't do it for me. Funny thing a sense of humor is.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:32 | 2560184 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Shit, ZH has degenarated into OS wars. 


Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:55 | 2560249 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Herr Saft-Gamma

The site was solid w/ traders for about 4 months (over 3 years ago) and it always happens w/ blogs the...mouth breathers took over & those w/ expensive time went else where because it was not worth filtering through the crap to find anything worth while - sorry TD....Fight Club

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:47 | 2560770 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

some truth to what you say but the articles are still quite good. 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:55 | 2561119 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture


And it wasn't me that -1 you.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:09 | 2560309 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Why the sarc tag?  This is bullshit of the utmost degree.  The world is falling apart around us, and Tyler thought it would be a good idea to introduce a fucking bullshit wedge issue.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:25 | 2560475 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Who doesn't have time for a good nerd fight?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:33 | 2560495 tmosley
tmosley's picture

We MAKE time by taking away from productive activities.

Thanks Tyler.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:05 | 2560541 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

We understand the urgency but I'm sure most of us have given ample warning and information to all who would listen and even to some who would rather not.  What's on your mind?  What world riddle can we solve tonight which hasn't had the proper thread?  Tonight, its nerd fights on my $600 sexbox and gale force winds on my balcony. I love a parade.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:35 | 2560189 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

I see plenty macboys with "faggotty abandon" as silencer so aptly put it but i think it has more to do with people suffering from upgrade syndrome, invented by the car industry, now pushed hard(est) by apple. Nothing gets old fast like stupid people wanting the newest shit all the time. My white little critter has served me for 10 years and the only thing i had to do was to change a fan and do some dust busting and i intend to use it until it dies.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:48 | 2560239 bullwinkle
bullwinkle's picture

Macs -  Computers for Dummies.

Consider a Formula 1 team.  From CAD/CAM to CFD do you think they're running Macs?

If any team did, they would be showing up trying to qualify a wheelbarrow.

The world runs on Windows and manages their music libary on Macs.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:50 | 2560771 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

that's liberry

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:48 | 2560240 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Bootcamp bytchez!

...or Fusion.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:49 | 2560243 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Of course, because we save so much money in support and repairs over the years.


Why are we having a Mac vs. PC thread like this is fucking /b/?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:57 | 2560264 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Cause they are "doing a show".........

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 21:59 | 2560271 SolidSnake961
SolidSnake961's picture

hahahaha this is so damn funny!! this is why i dont own any apple products

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:05 | 2560295 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

It's like the Dems vs. the Reps argument here... meh, they're all shitty.

Unfortunately, just like our two party system, I have to use both at work and at home... so much for choice.

So, despite the bullshit PC vs. Mac banter which has already filled up 1/2 of the fooking blogs on the interweb, this article was worthwhile.  If I ever am inclined to use Orbitz I'll only do so from the PC...

Thanks TD!!!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:08 | 2560306 walcott
walcott's picture

Mac = enlightenment

PC's really suck big time. Perhaps the only absolute truth.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:11 | 2560315 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It's not that Mac is so great, it's just that everyone else sucks.

I get annoyed with my Macs on a fairly regular basis, but they work.  Unlike the PCs I have had in my life, which included several that I built myself, and those that I ran Linux on.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:31 | 2560572 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

OSX is just a custom port of BSD Unix. The CPU's on Macs & Windows machines are nearly all Intel 8086 family clones, They use the same memory, the same memory bus, northbridge,southtbridge etc.

its splitting fucking hairs. once a Mac was a mile from a pc, but now they are so similar, its like fighting over politics, 2 parties, essentially the same, beholden to the same interests, lying to the world. Choose the one that resonates and live in your dream world.

99% of the computers sold today are only used for web surfing.Does the OS or hardware really matter?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:23 | 2561222 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It does when one gets a bunch of viruses, and is forced to run AV software 100% of the time, reducing performance.  It does when one is filled with bloatware that hurts performance.  It does when one doesn't sandbox operations, making total system lockups more likely than single application crashes.

Get the picture?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:09 | 2560307 Zone1
Zone1's picture

It just shows how stupid Mac users are.  You don't get Starwood/HHonors/etc points for hotel stays booked on Orbitz.  I'm a PC user and use Orbitz to find what is the best hotel / airline fare then book directly.  So you Mac users can suck my dick as a chill out at the St. Regis Princeville for free.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:54 | 2560773 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

all of that for free or just the dick sucking?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:11 | 2560318 walcott
walcott's picture

PC's = soviet technology.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:18 | 2560329 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

And...that meme that Steve "Hey look I bought someone's goddamn liver" Jobs Machines are the only way to go in TV/Film production is utter horseshit. That's for the worms in editorial that can't tell a story in a coherent fashion and the aforementioned wanktards running around the lots in their golf carts while listening to Coldplay in their sissy white earbuds.

We render some gnarly shit on these Chernobyl powered windows boxes, and to have same furnace under the hood with an Apple machine would be staggeringly cost prohibitive, not to mention the OS would have a little goddamn smiley face welcoming you into its sassy, plaid shirt, horn rimmed glasses, three day stubble embrace.

I'm no windows evangelist, I think Gates is a eugenicist creep and his product is snorting NSA cock snot just as wantonly as Facebook and Google, but shit the bed, folks, at least the hardware doesn't cost a goddamn fortune.

I fuckig hate iTunes, too. I DO enjoy a good 1911, Bulliet Bourbon and a porterhouse the size of my alimony obligations.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:59 | 2560603 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Fuck, Silencer.  I laughed so hard at that one I think I bruised a kidney.  +1000

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:15 | 2560337 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

This is the sort of ongoing disagreement that ultimately led to Rodney King's demise.

I guess we just can't all get along.

* posting through tears *


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:58 | 2560776 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

he had me at render some gnarly shit.  the chernobyl reference was gravy.

no one here is overcompensating for self doubt are they?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:17 | 2560342 walcott
walcott's picture

PC stands for peoples computer. Can't get more totalitarian government issue than that.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:13 | 2560551 Matt
Matt's picture

Personal Computer. Meaning one person using one computer. As opposed to a bunch of dumb terminals connected to a central server.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:25 | 2560352 nonsense75
nonsense75's picture

As a 4th generational native Californian and a computer savvy one at that, someone whose first computer was an Apple greenscreen at the age of 4, someone who is quite proud of my education, level of tolerance, compassion, etc. --- I'm going to be quite frank with everyone.

I want to punch every last smug UGLY self appointed rockstar hipster who attends the sick cult of Apple worship in the same way the stinky "nonmaterliastic FREELOADING flowerchildren" voting majority were devoted to the sick cult of Lennon worship.  These waste of flesh and oxygen @$$fucks are useless polisci major flunkies who barely know the origin of not their nationality but their friggin species with his neathandral nose in the air walking around with Mac on his person.  The girls are not so bad, the pricks on the other hand need a knucklesandwich like their lives depended on it.  They're all insulin resistant, greasy, bi-sexual, BORING @$$ f*cks with horrible, pitiful taste in entertainment- in as much so that they must have 10-20 eyesight and be legally deaf.  

If I need an upgrade, I will run to Japan to find a superior product that will meet MY needs.  Because that's what marketing is, bringing the service to meet your needs in exchange for currency.  There's a reason why these methed out Perez Hilton wannabes never got accepted into basketweaving courses, let alone business classes.  You actually have to get your fat head out of your wide ass to understand something outside of yourself, which is the organic DEMAND of the demographics you need to sell your goods to. 

I don't want your stupid Iphone that has no Sirius.  I don't text.  I hate texting.  I write emails and call people.  

As a matter of fact, I'll take a product made by Sony or Nokia any day and I will have a Korean repair my stuff before my eyes go blind for three days by looking at the Bitter know nothing but charge everything Geek Squad Apple cultist receptor.

Don't get me wrong.  I AM willing to spend the money.  I am willing to do the dirty work, I set up my first computer in college and yes it was just a tad harder than Ikea.  

But my shit needs to work above all else or somebody dies. Hmmmkay?  

I hate the miserable gay hipster good for nothing buzzkill pukes.  I hate them.   

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:53 | 2560416 billsykes
billsykes's picture

you forgot devil tongue, tattoo'ed, waxed moustache neckbearded hipsters with nose rings,big glasses ,rickets and canes. 

It's actually so bad every second person looks like this,how many tattoo parlors, bars, and coffee shops can support this? what's the saturation rate when everyone looks like this?  And why is it that humans seek conformity even within their own peer group so bad?

- I also think it might be me getting older, there is no way in hell I would hire anyone that looks remotely like this, it looks like they are slaves or lower class. On women this look is even worse, tatooed up fatish betty pages with tits the consistency of  watery half full bags of mushroom soup. 

I watched that pearl jam documentary a while ago, and it stuck me how few if any tattoo's were around.  Things were better in the 90's. HA ha if you agree you are getting old. ha ha.


Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:23 | 2560358 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

If Apple is so great, why didn't they use them to put a man on the moon... Oh wait!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:28 | 2560484 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

Apple hit Newton on the head and started the whole program.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:26 | 2560369 malek
malek's picture

Apple users are willing to pay more for basically the same service.
Tell us something new.

I believed the ease-of-use advantage until I used my sisters Mac for a while, 4 years ago. How the f**k do I access the context menu on a Mac?
Has Apple nowadays also finally allowed their standard mouse to have a second button for "right-clicking"?

And then from a technical viewpoint (and for booting Windows on it) I considered buying a MacBook Pro some 3 years ago - until I compared it with a Dell business laptop and realized Apple is 50% more expensive then a top of the line Dell.

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:47 | 2560404 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

This is my experience.   Apple was a superior product a few years ago, but now it is just priced like a superior product.   On a pure economic basis,  Apple products are a waste of money.

I will give Apple this:   if you are a 20-something single hipster passing a few hours in a coffee shop, you much more likely to end up eventually bedding the hottie at the next table if you are sporting Apple products.  They are hipper and sexier, two traits which have no basis in anything rational or scientific.   If you are a single, horny guy, that extra slice of the "I got laid today" probability distribution is worth real money.  

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:55 | 2560419 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Right click support was added years ago, before I even switched to Mac.  Now you don't even need a third party mouse.

And you go ahead and buy your cheap PC, and replace it in two years.  I still have the first Mac I ever bought, and it works, despite having been through a house fire and being soaked down with water by firemen (I have two functioning Macs that went through that, none were destroyed by that fire).  I tried switching back to PC right after the fire, when I thought "surely those computers didn't survive" and didn't even bother checking.  Fucking unusable.  Complete and utter shit.  Like switching from a Ferrari to a Ford Pinto with no engine, and one hole in the floor that you are supposed to stick your leg through to propel yourself along, not even matching up to the Flintstone's two holes for each person model.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:20 | 2560561 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Right. Its a false argument its not which os or hardware is better, its whether its better to lead a virtual existence or a real one.

Reality or electronic fantasy? Choose your time wisely on a long enough time line the survival rate is zero.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:44 | 2561293 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The problem isn't the hardware, it is the hideous malformed bloat that affects PCs during their lifetime.  When I switched my PC over to Linux, it worked FAIRLY well, certainly much better than it did on Windoze.  Of course, it took me a month to track down everything I needed to get it working, but this was before Ubuntu and other user friendly Linux flavors made their appearance.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:15 | 2560616 malek
malek's picture

As I hinted towards in my previous post, I bought a Dell laptop Latitude D830 more than 3 years ago. I use it every day including heavily for my job.

Still running strong as I hadn't been stingy at processor selection, never had a problem, and since I read and tested that you can even (unofficially) upgrade it to 8 GB RAM, it might still stay in service when I cannot postpone the upgrade to a 64-bit Windows any longer.

Yeah, and five years ago I once tried to configure email on the iMac my sister had talked my mother into buying, by setting up IMAP. Fucking unusable, that was exactly the result I then encountered with some disbelief on one of those fantastic Apple products. In all fairness I have to admit those were the only two bad experiences I had with Apple, on the two occasions that I tried to use for a while or configure one.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:12 | 2560619 malek
malek's picture


Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:31 | 2560375 walcott
walcott's picture

MAC = In The Evening by Led Zeppelin

PC = Mrs. Brown by Hermans Hermits

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:35 | 2560386 caimen garou
caimen garou's picture

he,he,he obama's plan is working he,he,he!

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:41 | 2560393 Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Staying at a pricey East coast hi-rise hotel that has formerly forced Internet users to login via secure password involving weekly access code change -
This visit using an iPad just logged on - no security - BUT
There was a brief flash of an Apple ad
And then Access Granted.
Tried a PC. Login was same old shit - PC password hell.
Happy w/ Mac since 1985

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:42 | 2560395 killallthefiat
killallthefiat's picture

Lots of negatives for those indicting Mac users.  These readers of ZeroHedge must not only be Mac users but among the 90% of traders that have money to spare (i.e. losing traders).

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:48 | 2560406 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

F U, macs rock.

the mac is proof that free enterprise and competitve markets are the superior economic construct for liberal democracies. the mac commands a higher price based on intangibles (design, usability) and perception (quality, status), and the market meets that price. there is value created beyond the cost of parts and labor. if the market rewards a product/maker despite a higher pricepoint, then a real free-marketeer should (must) applaud that product/maker as a true example of success in/of the free enterprise system (and capitalism to some large degree). 

tyler's tone here is somewhat marxist - how dare some clever capitalist charge a premium beyond the cost of materials and labor!?  only souless bourgoise consumers would frivolously spend more than the real cost of the product!  apple is exploiting it's out-sourced off-shored workforce and profitting unfairly! (this last point may well be true... perhaps union organizers should abandon wisconsin and 'occupy' china, where workers perhaps need such organization to secure dignity/rights, as american labor did a century ago).

or maybe the author is just prejudiced against the cool kids...



Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:51 | 2560411 SolidSnake961
SolidSnake961's picture

tyler is only implying that paying more for something when there is no need is a capitalist society with free markets, the market would theoretically be smart enough to know that it shouldnt overpay but pay only the amount above the cost that would generate a reasonable profit for the producer to keep them in the business

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 22:56 | 2560425 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, too bad we don't have a free market, huh?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:00 | 2560434 SolidSnake961
SolidSnake961's picture

and that is why ZH exists haha

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:27 | 2560471 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

"capitalist society with free markets, the market would theoretically be smart enough to know that it shouldnt overpay..."



first of all, 'overpay' is subjective, not objective. if macs were crap and charging a premium, then they would have been out-of-business decades ago. but no, apple is conquering evermore markets with evermore 'killer' products... methinks your opinion of a mac's value is a minority opinion, somewhat contrary to the will of the marketplace, no?

secondly, who/what is forcing people to buy macs?  is the market for computers somehow unfair/rigged?  seems to me that the computer market is one of the most competitive product markets around these days.  apple's success is free will in action, not some "imperfect market" fluke.

so consumers are idiots?  perhaps, but there's nothing unfair/illegal/corrupt about that...

or are you saying that only mac buyers are stupid/uneducated?  really??


I drive a Ford, so I hate all Chevy & Dodge people!!  I am an irrational cro-mag who confuses brands with tribal loyalty instincts!!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:18 | 2560759 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

in a capitalist society with free markets, the market would theoretically be smart enough to know that it shouldnt overpay


That is simply not human nature and will never be the behaviour of the woefully stupid masses, regardless of how the pseudoscientific nosnense of classical economics or Mises's idiotic praxeology would have it.

Wed, 06/27/2012 - 22:08 | 2567132 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

"the mac commands a higher price based on intangibles (design, usability) and perception (quality, status), and the market meets that price"

ROTFLOA. Hence the reason why Orbitz has decided to charge Mac users an additional 20-30% because of your appreciation for those "intangibles."

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:09 | 2560451 billsykes
billsykes's picture

as a desktop- it is dog slow in terms of productivity. I tried when xp was around to get into osx and really use it- tried off and on for 2 yrs.

It is not as good for business use.

things like :

-the file explorer sucks
-cannot delete files by highlighting and pressing delete button
-offfice for mac sucks.
-safari saving pdf's when just opening them on a website to view them.
-all the little stuff that tries to phone home- need little snich
-slow with 1 button mouse.
-mouse and just moving around in general seems and for me is slower.
-safari as a browser.
-more hidden security issues
-hitting enter when a file is highlighted, is like F2 in windows- which is retarded.

-like os in itouch





Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:30 | 2560491 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Why the fuck would anyone buy an operating system?

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:36 | 2560498 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Some of us don't have hours to configure our systems, or weeks to learn how.  Might as well ask "why the fuck would anyone pay to have their oil changed".

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:37 | 2560500 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

You could spend two nights in a nice hotel for the price of a new version of Winbloze.

You could spend a whole week at one for the price of a new Mac.

Learn Linux, afford a vacation.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:45 | 2561297 tmosley
tmosley's picture

How many hours does it take to learn Linux?  During that time, I earn enough to live for a year in South America.  Not. Worth. My. Time.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:18 | 2572181 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Obviously you are not speaking from experience.

I started with Linux with Redhat 3.0. It was brutal. Days and days of effort to even get the Xserver config settings right so I could get a graphical UI. But nowadays, you would probably be surprised how similar most Linux distributions are to Macs. You could not live for more than a few days on the time to "learn" linux, since what you are really learning is the user interface, and it is very similar to the MAC UI in any event.

But hey, I'm not going to interfere with your right to spend more than you need to. I notice many people buy very expensive cars as well, even though one can spend far less in the pursuit of getting from point A to point B.


Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:31 | 2560492 ThaBigPerm
ThaBigPerm's picture

Meh.  Use both at work.  They both piss me off when they crash.  And they both crash from time to time.  PCs at home, since I can custom build them to my specs for a fraction of the cost, and it's the same hardware nowadays anyway.  Won't buy "name brand" PCs either, since all they do is put off-the-shelf parts in a case and slap on a premium for the name and support i'd never use (since I would always figure it out before they would anyway).  Mac OS is good for non-power users or those who don't like to open the hood.  The machine, however, is just the world's most expensive dongle.  Not bad, mind you; just that it functions as a dongle for the Mac OS.  Personally, I'm not into the hand-holding and bottom-wiping feel of their OS.  But I can use 'em.  And do.,2587/?ref=auto,14299/

Mon, 06/25/2012 - 23:49 | 2560516 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Actually every OS sucks. They also each have their advantages. But every one of them are flawed.   There are serious drawbacks to each.   Given that each OS by anyone will be replaced, as code is imperfect and advances are made, it's hard to say which one is better or worse except for regarding certain specific segments.

I'm sure those that code on Linux/Unix can deal with some of the problems themselves, however there are some limitations.  The plus side is you can user a lesser spec machine.  The OS is basically customizable.  PC under the hood, just running different OS.  Thus you still have the flexibility of the pc architecture.  Highest total configurability.  Cheapest option.   Like with Windows, you can build a PC, and load it with this.  If you've never used a computer, you probably shouldn't start here.

Windows is highly targeted by viruses/malware/exploits.  It has numerous, frustrating bugs.  Can suck up a lot of resources when a new version comes out, but in a few years this is gone as tech surpasses it.  Win 7 doesn't present a problem in this regard to anyone with a decent computer the last 4-5 years as even Aero Glass can be turned off and actually is better than Vista.  It costs a good deal for businesses, but usually can be found for about $100 for home users.   Generally supported for a decent time as I believe xp was going to be shut off but was extended.  Win 7 is the best they've had, though they never delivered on the promise of the moon as much was cut out in Vista and this.  Highest compatibility.  This is what your games were made to play on.   Windows quirks and crashes, though Win 7 is much better, occur and are widely screen of death.  Like with Linux/Unix you can build your PC to your choice, taste, and budget.   Or you can buy one.  If you buy one it's way cheaper and more powerful than a mac.  If you build it yourself you can make it even cheaper than that and/or more powerful.   Building your own computer is always superior to buying one pre-made, especially a mac. 

Apple.  Users who want to have their hand held (which is ok, it's a segment that needs serving).  OS always looks better than the competition.  Generally stable OS.  The aspects that work, work well most of the time.  They tend to be superior and work in a fashion that Windows wishes it could at least initially....most of the time.  The closed configuration system increases reliability and ability to deliver on promised features. All comes at a price, both figuratively and literally.  Pay way more for old tech.   Without the Apple label the tech is worth 1/3-1/2 the price.  When an i7 PC is lower priced than a core2duo apple as a norm was, well you don't get what you pay for.  One mouse button, as in ONE mouse button....good luck opening tabs/new windows without a keyboard in your hand too...probably the biggest limiting user based functional factor of Apple.  OS is incompatible with tons of software/games.  QT plays on PC, good luck getting many of the PC encoded files playing on a mac.   Games? Need special version, of which many do not and will not exist.   If you know jack shit about computers, this is what is easiest.  Very user friendly if you stay within the lines, but cannot cross outside them without major problems.  Very trendy, especially by the people that think it does everything.   Upgrade path is limited.  Can't build a mac out of parts.  Which is pretty funny since the apple II basically was made out of standardized parts. 

People choose for their tastes.  But Apple is definitely the crowd (and obviously not everyone) whose computer users are lass saavy and tech slow.  They're the type usually that doesn't understand tech, their options within the tech, and since they choose someone to make all the decisions for them and they'll pay the additional cost, it makes a whole lot of sense that Apple users would be targeted to waste money. 

They can't be bothered with learning certain things, and thus are less likely to 'shop around' or even want to fiddle with various options.   Just hold their hand until the purchase and they'll press the button to do it.    Obviously not everyone is in this boat, but the vast, vast majority of Apple users are indeed every word of this.  

Within the predatory nature of our system as it in a sense always was, and how it is that to the extreme in today's ponzi, it's with no surprise that someone finally figured out to take advantage of the segment that doesn't question or seek answers to anything within the simplified view of the mac experience. 

What should people take from the learning of the Apple targeted price gouging?  Simple.  If the product you use is one that is made easy for the simple minded herd following crowd (not that YOU specifically fall into that category), then expect that segment to be highly targeted for for such price segmenting.  I agree with others it seems like a charging different people different prices for the same type thing illegality.  But let's face it, a million other things worse are done each day in the ponzi, good luck getting this fixed.  You will be targeted as those around you set the climate for such 'opportunities'.



Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:10 | 2560548 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

I wish they would use the Zip codes to price things. I live in the poorest postal code in Canada. If I used an Apple they wouldn't believe it.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:15 | 2560553 mt paul
mt paul's picture

do Mac users

get higher quality porn too...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:51 | 2560744 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Mac users are higher quality people. Period.

this is a Microshite article, reverse snobbery, Marxlism (snarky jealousy) in the IT space

the under-achievers are dissing the over-achievers

Gates & Bulmer are pathetic from every angle

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:58 | 2560748 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Mac users know nothing about IT. They can't handle a PC. That's why they need a Mac. Mac vs PC is like Tai-Bo versus three rounds in the mma cage. The soccer moms will all go to the former, but we all know where the pros hang out.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:50 | 2561315 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's like saying owners of maintenence free cars know nothing about car maintenence, as if that were a bad thing.

Why would normal people want to get into an MMA cage?  Only idiots do that.  If I want to fight, I will come the ZH.  I won't fight with my PC.  That isn't very satisfying at all.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:20 | 2572301 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

LOL. Perhaps you missed the main point of the article: you "higher quality people" are willing to pay more than others for the same exact thing. I know that the word stupid is worn out and perhaps overdone, but what other word could one use for a person willing to pay more for a given item than anyone else?

This is one case where the empirical evidence backs-up my anecdotal perceptions.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:05 | 2560751 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Do soccer moms watch porn?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 00:39 | 2560582 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

In this Mac vs PC acquisition discussion, I believe the tradeoffs are acquisition cost vs overall cost of ownership as well as acquisition cost versus benefit.  The same consumer analysis is applied to automobiles, underware, housing, and hotel rooms. 

To paraphrase Michael Burry, the Mac embodies short term pain for long term gain, while the PC embodies short term gain for long term pain.  

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:54 | 2560746 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

In this Mac vs PC acquisition discussion, I believe the tradeoffs are acquisition cost vs overall cost of ownership as well as acquisition cost versus benefit.

Can you upgrade a Mac? I rest my case.

To paraphrase Michael Burry, the Mac embodies short term pain for long term gain, while the PC embodies short term gain for long term pain. 

Only for ignorant soccer moms and former high-school jocks who don't know a bit from a byte i.e. 90% of the population.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:14 | 2560969 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

Can you upgrade a Mac? I rest my case.

Working memory and hard drives can be upgraded internally, and externally displays, storage, network adaptors, language specific keyboards etc. can be added. Please note that the various languages are supported in one version of the OS and keyboard support and display language can be selected by each user.  Linux can also be installed as an alternate OS.   It is not clear to me what case you hope to rest here.

Only for ignorant soccer moms and former high-school jocks who don't know a bit from a byte i.e. 90% of the population.


We are in agreement that the Mac is an appropriate solution for 90% of the population, although I must say that I do not view people who elect not to have Windows operating systems as a hobby as ignorant. 


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:01 | 2560605 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

no worries, there will be an app out by tomorrow that disguises what type of computer you use

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 01:04 | 2560608 CrawdadMan
CrawdadMan's picture

Here comes the iSheeple. If you have used a PC for at least a year and you aren't a monkey, then one shouldn't still be complaining about why their PCs crash. 

I was 6 years old when I started using the Amiga 4000; mastered it in 2 years.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 02:13 | 2560661 The Onion Of Tw...
The Onion Of Twickenham's picture

How do us Linux desktop users rate? We really are the 1%


Personally I hate 5 star hotels. Too claustrophobic - you can't fart without calling down to reception. Give me a clean 3 or 4 star with internet, an iron and a coffee maker in my room.


No porters. No interpreter. No taxi.
You carried your own burden and very soon
your symptoms of creeping privilege disappeared.

Seamus Heaney.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 02:21 | 2560664 dreadnaught
dreadnaught's picture



Tue, 06/26/2012 - 03:23 | 2560699 Me_Myself_and_I
Me_Myself_and_I's picture

I hate deaf dumb and blind use of statistics and predictive analytics.

Throwing entire masses of people into tracks like these just pisses them off.

There's a much better way to use predictive analytics, but these tools are being put into the hands of dimwits.

Look at Facebook.. it's becoming a desert as people get fed up with all the forced 'gotcha' change to your page/profile/timeline, hacked accounts, merciless ad-spam etc and are expressing their disdain by going dormant.

And just what the hell ever happened to the old internet?  The one that wooed you, enticed you, invited you, wrapped its big arms around you and made you feel like the guy with the golden ticket to a world of unlimited music, porn, and hookups?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 03:28 | 2560703 DoolieDoink
DoolieDoink's picture

Hardly surprising

Apple users are exstatic to over pay for their computers, so they for sure will over pay for just about anything that has a cute logo !

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:49 | 2560742 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Apple is cheap at the price

by the time you've paid for your 5th Norton security package, which doesn't work and grinds your laptop/PC to a near-halt, because Microshite are such garbage they can't write smooth running bug and virus free software (like Apple) you're being taxed through the nose for your MS stupidity

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 15:42 | 2562624 malek
malek's picture

You need to update your preconceptions a little.

If anything you are showing that a few people exist outside Apple sphere who like to overpay too.
All the others use Microsoft antivirus "MS Security Essentials" for free.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 03:34 | 2560707 Floodmaster
Floodmaster's picture

Mac users are the dumbest people on earth.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:46 | 2560740 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

no dipshit, that's Microshite users ...a community of village idiots who can't talk to each other because they're bug-ridden OS has crashed for the 3rd time today

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 03:50 | 2560714 pufferfish
pufferfish's picture

I've been using macs since the early 90's. I built my entire business around their reliability & compatibility. The simple fact that Avid (Digidesign), Pro Tools & Logic Audio only supported Mac OS for TDM initially was testament.

They had always been more expensive, I believed at that time that I was paying for rigour in terms of engineering (soft & hardware). Now the pro user base like myself has been shunned in favour of iProducts & telephones. The 'free market' saw to that.

There are many mac users like me.

I think you'll find however, If you are using the internet without 'protection' expect to get something you didn't (couldn't) bargain for.

Perhaps thats the real issue here.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:10 | 2560722 OhOh
OhOh's picture

Surely the vacation site has a algo which adds 10% to all mac queries. If not, silly buggers.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:44 | 2560738 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the extra price of running Microshite is the huge taxes in extra security (which do not work), extra downtime post blue screen of death and smacking your MS garbage laptop/PC because it's got its 3rd virus today and not a fix in sight from Gates & Bulmer (Garbage) HQ

MS users are born stupid buying the crap... Orbitz are having to fleece Mac users to try to equalise the handicap of all the village idiots running on Microgarbage

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:49 | 2560743 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

That's why serious gamers, hackers and all-round cpmuter nerds choose the Mac over the PC every time.[/sarcasm]

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:25 | 2561026 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

the reason gamers choose Microshite is because it's the biggest platform for games and they're all 12 year old boys ...grown ups like DJ's, graphic designers and anybody with some working cells between their ears choose Apple

the reason hackers choose Microshite is because it's the most unstable, insecure and hackable OS around

Nerds choose Microshite because there's soooo much work to be done ...Apple runs puuuuurfectly smoothly bug/virus free, no constant need for meddlers sticking their fingers in the dyke of garbage sinking/drowning (in bug world) software 

Microshite users really are dicks


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:20 | 2561217 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

Your ignorance is beyond description. Were you one of Stevie Jobs gay lovers? Was it YOU that gave him AIDS? You seem to have a lot of repressed anger, probably resulting from deep seated guilt. Seek professional help before it is too late.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 10:01 | 2561341 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

the reason gamers choose Microshite is because it's the biggest platform for games

The reason for x is x. jesus Christ you are fuckign dumb. The reason the PC is the platfrom of choice for both games and gamers is that the Mac is an underpowered piece of crap that is simply is too weak to run the latest games.

grown ups like DJ's, graphic designers and anybody with some working cells between their ears choose Apple

That's because most DJ's are just as clueless about computers as anyone. They want off-the-shelf idiot-proof products. No Mac will ever match a contemporary customised PC in terms of performance. Ever. And graphic designers. Get out of here. Tell me why Steve Jobs's Pixar use Intel PC's running Linux and Windows and not his own precious Apples! Because they are pieces of underpowered crap produced for Sally soccer mom. Oh the irony.

the reason hackers choose Microshite is because it's the most unstable, insecure and hackable OS around

That doesn't even make sense.


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:22 | 2560727 Floodmaster
Floodmaster's picture

Don't forget to password protect your computer when small children and mac users are visiting.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:40 | 2560736 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

can you password protect Microshite?

..surely the most insecure, bug-ridden, virus contaminated piece of global software (shit) ever to walk the IT space in history

that'll be iSpace actually because Apple define it, Microshite just crib it

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:16 | 2561202 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

You are aware that Microsoft's market share ABSOLUTELY DWARFS Apple's right? Well........maybe not based on the level of awareness you have demonstrated thus far. Sigh...............

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:31 | 2560731 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

"..because it appears, empirically, that Mac users are perfectly ok with spending more than they have to for virtually anything.."

Really, no kidding?!!

Well this Apple-muncher would like to advise Orbitz where they can stick their heads ..and their business

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:34 | 2560732 SoundMoney45
SoundMoney45's picture

On Zerohedge, we read a quite a bit regarding free market benefits over central planning.  Does anyone else see the humor in the comments attacking free market choices in the personal computer space?  

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:45 | 2560739 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Supporting the free market does not mean taking a liking to the choices of the mob. There is nothing ironic to see here. Move along.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:44 | 2560737 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Three words: NO RIGHT CLICK.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 04:47 | 2560741 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Macs are for people who have never seen the inside of a computer.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:27 | 2561039 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

correct dickhed

coz Apples work faultlessly... Microshite not a day goes by you're not thumping the garbage has broken down or seized up again


Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:10 | 2561180 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

I didn't realize that crapple fanboys could be so crass and illiterate. I guess money can't buy class or mental acuity. How sad for you.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:55 | 2561325 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Really?  Then why do I like them so much?  I built two of my first three computers, and used to build them in high school for Computer Science and Drafting classes.  When I got to college, I thught Linux would be neato, but it really just ate up all my spare time.  Then I bought a friend's used PowerMac, and that shit just worked.  I only looked back for a few minutes after a house fire, and said *NOPE*.

I would take a five year old Mac over a new PC any day of the week.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 05:26 | 2560762 BeerGoggles
BeerGoggles's picture

Does this mean that Linux users can get cheper rates?

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 01:55 | 2572377 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

This would be the logical conclusion. It's great to have folks like tmosley who are happy to subsidize everyone else ;-)

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 06:36 | 2560794 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

I bought mine before Windows 7. The web browsers on XP constantly crashed (let's face it XP is a shitty OS) and I got fed up. That being said as long as Microsoft makes stable OS's I'll buy their cheaper products and will not be using Orbitz to look for travel packages.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:16 | 2560812 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

That’s logical since they payed much more for a Mac than they would get the same in PC for far less. But since right-clicking and all is much to complicated for the MAC user they rather spend more. Mac users are usually technical incapable people.

Having said that I agree that MS suckz! I know many people who had a PC but changed it for a Mac trough all the MS program fuck upz. A technical PC guy can deal with that but not many people can.

Find me an hacker on a MAC and I’ll (maybe) change my mind.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 07:34 | 2560838 RECISION
RECISION's picture


What a load of pretentious wanking on this subject.

People buy what they want, and what works for them.

And yet out roll the Tools and Trolls criticizing.

Fuck off.

I have my own bitches about Apple, but if people love it in enough numbers to make Apple the biggest Co. in the world, then shut the fuck up and go and do your own thing.   

You have no need to comment in the first place - and if most of the world disagrees with you, then there is a better than average chance the problem lies with you.

Get a life...

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:17 | 2560988 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"...if most of the world disagrees with you, then there is a better than average chance the problem lies with you."

I haven't heard that childish notion spoken in a few years.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:18 | 2560991 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

You have no need to comment in the first place - and if most of the world disagrees with you, then there is a better than average chance the problem lies with you.

So Lada Gaga and Stephanie Meyer are great artists as opposed to Beethoven and Dostoevsky, Christians have the monopoly on truth with their religion, statism is the way to go, and I should follow the answers of the majority in an IQ test. Did I miss anything?

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:28 | 2561014 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Or since the majority of Americans "own" debt it's wrong to aspire to be debt free.

One could go on and on.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:13 | 2561187 RECISION
RECISION's picture

If One can't stop Oneself...

Pretentious tosser!

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 09:57 | 2561334 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The actual numbers.  People don't really like that shit.  Just a few teeny-boppers. 

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 10:22 | 2561416 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

The truth of a proposition has no dependency ont he number of persosn believing it to be true. Nwo fuck off you halfwit.

Tue, 06/26/2012 - 08:22 | 2561007 Gloppie
Gloppie's picture

Bleaarch windoozie...

I run Ubuntu on a Mac Book pro, I'm free, fast, and kewl :c)



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