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Here We Go Again: US $25 Million Away From Debt Ceiling Breach

Tyler Durden's picture


It's simply amazing how quickly the US managed to hit its debt target, pardon, debt ceiling all over again...And now the Social Security Fund pillaging begins anew until Congress signs off on the latest interim debt ceiling increase.


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Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:09 | 2036850 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Just print some funny money.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:12 | 2036858 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Go team USA.  

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:25 | 2036950 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."


-Barack Hussein Obama

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:25 | 2036960 J 457
J 457's picture

He'll re-use that same line this summer.

I was a believer, now I want a refund.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:46 | 2037048 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

WHO Taught Owe-Bummah To Read The Tele-Prompter So Well ???


I Wanna Finda Thata Guya...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:49 | 2037083 bernorange
bernorange's picture

I saw this well made video satirizing the debt limit farce just this morning:


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:59 | 2037132 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

They will be rehypothecating SS funds, and public pension funds, to keep the fiat debt ponz alive.  Think about if SHTF when these funds were on loan....

Aaand it's gone!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:01 | 2037148 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

You should make it clear that that quote above was Senator Obama.  I understand that it still was him but showing the difference illustrates what a lying hypocrite he really is.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:03 | 2037154 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

All politicians lie.  What's the big deal?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:15 | 2037195 Kayman
Kayman's picture

That all politicians lie is a big deal.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:28 | 2037249 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

But we know that, so it shouldn't be a big deal.  Known knowns, you know?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:41 | 2037294 Victorio
Victorio's picture

Dude, just because it's a known known doesn't mean it's not a big deal.  Incremental corruption and desensitization is a bitch... Wake the fuck up!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:43 | 2037301 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

So you expect them to tell the truth?  Is that what you expect?  You expect Obama to be truthful?  He is a politician.  They lie!  That is their profession....they are paid to lie.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:32 | 2037437 Victorio
Victorio's picture

No, not at all... 

Yes, lying has become their profession...

And yes, it is a big fucking deal...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:43 | 2037463 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

No, the big deal is what we are going to do about it.  Let them lie and act surprised?  That is what we should do?  Or should we put down the kid gloves and take action and stop caring about what they say?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:44 | 2037472 Victorio
Victorio's picture

Now yer talkin....

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 21:46 | 2037727 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



"Debt ceiling made of vapor soon evaporate into bottomless well of debt".


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:58 | 2038020 YBNguy
YBNguy's picture

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 04:41 | 2038462 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

psychopaths have souls?


proof that man evolved from monkeys: survival and dominance > heart and soul


US will get more debt....war is always financed by debt.


If Iranian economic sanctions "diplomacy" doesn't work out, we will have war. short TUR. While China is winning an ally in the middle east. Dumbass US corporations who sold out America for short term profits. Be prepared for Chinese rule.




Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:47 | 2038099 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Funny stuff big Ching Ching.

Kind of like Mitt Romney's winning by.... 6 votes? Or 150, whatever.

A nation that simply guzzles this kind of money every second, burning it up on some far-away mil. occupation. 

But patterns are repeating faster and faster. If the whole hand-wringing drama is to begin again, watch for an August 2011 like down spike, overall.




Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:46 | 2037311 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

That makes no sense at all. With that logic, because we know there's a war in the Middle East, and a lot of sabre-rattling is being done by all parties involved with the Iran debacle, it's no big deal?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:09 | 2037386 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I am not saying someone should not be proactive.  I am saying that you should not be surprised.  Look.....

Oh my god did you guys know that we might go to war with Iran and troops are being deployed to Israel?  Oh my god!  Who would have thought?!

You are surprised we are warmongering?  Really? 

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:05 | 2037766 wretch
wretch's picture

Who the fuck says they're surprised?  It sucks, it makes sense, it's no surprise and it's a big deal.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:37 | 2037975 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

Mr. good musicians, some people are just so idealistic they can not accept a reality of our modern political system. All politicians lie. The bigger question is how often and how far off from the truth are they?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:34 | 2038529 Last_2_Sense
Last_2_Sense's picture

Every time their lips move, and generally 180 degrees. 

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:18 | 2037209's picture

An accurate portrayal of the hypocrisy of Senator Obama turned President Obama is the big deal. The man said that raising the debt ceiling was a failure of leadership when he wasn't the top dog. Now he is top dog and he will lead by yet again raising the debt ceiling. "All politicians lie," is fine but it's good to have the details.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:29 | 2037252 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Everything he says is a lie.  Counting his lies is like counting sand.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:51 | 2037332's picture are the days of our lives.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:27 | 2037562 Lndmvr
Lndmvr's picture

The hourglass is glued to the table.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:00 | 2037888 optimator
optimator's picture

giver yourself a break, it's much easier to count his truths!

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:21 | 2038055 gtb
gtb's picture

Still waiting for the first one...

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 01:09 | 2038139 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

He admitted to doing coke, didn't he?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 04:04 | 2038339 boattrash
boattrash's picture

It was probably meth, and another lie.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:54 | 2038543 Havana White
Havana White's picture

He didn't want Bush appearing cooler.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:49 | 2037323 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

Moreover, he asked for the extension of time, then withdrew the extension.  Why?  Because when Congress was going to grant the extension, it would've required Congress to be "in session", not "in recess".  So he withdrew his extension request so he could steal more Congressional power.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:50 | 2037459 redpill
redpill's picture

Not that Congress really minds having their power stolen, that way they can do even less and it gives them more time to collect on perks and bribery payments.  Congress has been happily giving away its responsibilities for a very long time.  Perhaps most notably in the Federal Reserve act of 1913 and the Second Liberty Bond Act of 1917.  Those two pieces of legislation essentialy resulted in the abdication of their budget responsibilities to the President, and in doing so sent the executive branch the message that they are free to create and spend as much money as they would like.  The resulting inevitable slow downward spiral began then, and we're getting pretty close to the bottom, kids.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:42 | 2038094 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes, all they do now is punt on first down. Pretty much staying out of that war thing too. The executive branch and the "regulatory" agencies have grown to size and power never imagined and never intended by our founders. Pretty common history story though

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:52 | 2038109 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Yeah, haven't noticed much gold-backed issuance of late (not that they're good for it, mind you).


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:52 | 2037487 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Lying is one thing - breaking a sworn oath to abide by and defend the Constitution is another thing alltogether.  

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:57 | 2037495 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Which President hasn't done that?  What politician hasn't done that?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 04:57 | 2038509 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

A Politician's job is to bend the constitution and other laws for the governed temporarily to achieve the objectives of the power elites. That's why they have a big lying contest they call "election campaigns" to find out America's best liars who can lie with a straight face and maintain popularity.


ALL presidents drop in popularity once they take power and carry out the orders from the ruling elite.  Obama's owners told him to bail them out and mask inflation by colonizing another oil producer to back up the freshly printed dollars.



Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:47 | 2038101 Drunken Monkey
Drunken Monkey's picture

Actually it's not, you are either a man of your word or you are not.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:56 | 2038545 Havana White
Havana White's picture



Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:54 | 2037488 Elwood P Suggins
Elwood P Suggins's picture

To lie you forgot to add cheat and steal.  Those are the 3 things politicians do best.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:23 | 2037552 Dr.Vannostrand
Dr.Vannostrand's picture


I don't want to be hostile
And I don't want to be dismal
But I don't want to rot in
An apathetic existance

See, I want to believe you
And I wanted to trust you
And I want to have faith to
Put away the dagger

But you lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
And yet I tolerate you

You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
And yet I tolerate you

Veil of virtue hung to hide your method
While I smileing and laughing and dance
And sing and praise your glory
Shroud of virtue hung to mask your stigma
As I smile and laugh and dance
And sing your glory
While you

Lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
How can I tolerate you?

You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
How can I tolerate?

Our guilt, our blame
I've been far too sympathetic
Our blood, our fault
I've been far too sympathetic

I am not innocent
You are not innocent
No one is innocent

You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal

You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal

You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal

You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal
You lie, cheat and steal

I will no longer tolerate you
Even if I must go down beside you
I must go down beside you
No one is innocent

Tool - Intolerance


Fri, 01/06/2012 - 01:06 | 2038131 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture


Thieves and Liars!

Murderers, hypocrites and bastards!


Hey! Thanks for nothing!

Morals in the dust

Two-faced, lying fucking hypocrites.

no trust.


   Thieves and Liars!

   Inside, outside, which side? We don't know!

   My side, your side, their side? You don't know!

   Which side are they? Which side are they?

   Out of which side of their mouth do you suppose that it came?


   You're like a great big fucking gun, just waiting to get squeeeezed.


Greed: Corporate Erection

Classical Rejection

Geriatric buttfucks...with dissimilating minds


  You're like a big hit of acid, just waiting to be taken!

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:44 | 2038095 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

and molest assistants

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:30 | 2037256 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

all yourz SS and pensions are belong to us! muaahhahah

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:34 | 2037272 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Obviously we have way too much money.  I think we should invade someone.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:50 | 2038001 economics1996
economics1996's picture


Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:01 | 2038512 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Canada is just US experiment in socialized medicine.


US would never invade ex-british colonial territories due to arrangements. UK followed US into Iraq remember? Canadians still worship the Queen. British empire is not done yet.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:41 | 2038533 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I'm glad someone has the balls to call out Canada for being the malignant cancer, threatening to metastasize, and spread to the rest of the globe that it is.

A government that, by and large, listens to the people that pay its salary?

A government that has maintained (or increased) the RIGHTS of its citizens in the wake of the disastrous culling of RIGHTS of the citizenry (capping it off with ObaMao's signing of the 2012 NDAA) in Amerika?

Beer Stores run by government?

Health care available to all, whether they can pay, without the threat of bankruptcy being imposed on them?

Gravy....on French Fries? Montreal?


Canada is a serious threat. It must be deal with.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:50 | 2038537 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

LOL but sure Canada is not as bad as the "Euro-Elites threathening to enslave the US Serfs into a new NeoFeudalism" ? (got that from Ahmexxal, so it must be right)

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 10:04 | 2038920 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

A government that, by and large, listens to the people that pay its salary?

Their salaries are "paid" (contributed) by citizens with debt instruments issued by a private central bank.

As a corporate (law) citizen, you have NO "rights" -- you have "liberties".  Constitutional (natural) law enumerates "rights".


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:31 | 2037259 valley chick
valley chick's picture

don't know if the gov ever replaced the FERS money they took in the spring of 2011.  That is why i opted to pull out before they took the taxes and penalty and be done with it.  About that time I found ZH and was a lurker for a while.  Still in the learning curve as I am not savvy on some of the financial language.  I can't thank you all enough.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:24 | 2037557 Dr.Vannostrand
Dr.Vannostrand's picture

You are not alone.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 06:16 | 2038554 IronShield
IronShield's picture

Yep, did the same (and I was a 6-fig kinda guy).  Took the tax hit, bought physical, and moved to the Far East.  Not looking back and having a great time here.  There was an article a while back about intellectual migration.  That is happening NOW.  Don't know if I will ever go back...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:10 | 2037173 Argos
Argos's picture

Great video.  I'd laugh if it wasn't so true.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:50 | 2037090 markmotive
markmotive's picture

It's criminal just how many people out there just don't 'get it'.

Some of the ignorance displayed by the comments on this Debt Crisis article are shameful:

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:58 | 2037138 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

many of them "get it" literally in the form of government payouts, favors, consulting contracts, bailouts, social engineering programs, grants, special solar WH funding etc, etc.

ask planned parenthood or the unions or acorn or the blue states if they "get it"

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:08 | 2037164 Elijah Craig 18
Elijah Craig 18's picture


Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:07 | 2038516 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

What is there to get?


debt ceiling is all political talk. Politicians trying to get some face time on TV before elections.


when elites say we are going to war, we will have war and we will have debt to finance the war. Elites who own America have most to lose by not going to war.


Iran, you are it!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:55 | 2037351 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

Yeah ask , the dozens of military machine contractors such as Haliburton if they get it.  you partisan cunt.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:47 | 2038098 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny thing about corruption, it has no political philosophy

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:58 | 2037356 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Most of the "blue states" citizens pay more in taxes than they receive back from the Feds in benefits.  It's because several of the biggest states are blue, and the populations there have inflated salaries, so they pay more in taxes.

The states that are most dependent on Federal transfer payments are low-population rural states.  One big army base in S. Bumblefuck can cost a lot.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:50 | 2037620 chet
chet's picture

It's true.  Red states tend to get more from the feds than blue states.  Within states, rural red areas get more than they pay in, while blue metro areas get less.  The biggest welfare state in the country is Alaska.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:06 | 2037769 nmewn
nmewn's picture



The motion on the table is the states keep the taxes collected within their borders for their own use and not send them to DC at all.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:31 | 2037820 bobert
bobert's picture

Aye Matee......I love it.

I'm for descaling (simplifying) just about everywhere!

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 01:52 | 2038190 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Great. Now we have to build how many fences?

No, I'm not the -1.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:50 | 2038538 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Good fences make good neighbors ;-)

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 05:56 | 2038547 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

the motion is practically the same as the repeal of the 17th amendment - one of the key messages of the Tea Party

are you aware of this?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 08:02 | 2038608 nmewn
nmewn's picture

The repeal of the seventeenth would be a very good thing. The popular vote for federal representation comes via the house.

Its called the Peoples House for this reason.

Today, the states have no representation at the federal level. For example, highway funds (extorted by the feds, from the individual states) are routinely held hostage by the feds to enforce its will. This can be called bribery or coercion...but its clearly wrong.

In this example, in essence, what the fed is telling the individual states is...we are willing to let your citizens be injured or die on the highways of your state until you submit to our will. And we don't care if it is your citizens tax money that are being witheld from going back to repair your roads.

Its a pretty callous way of doing business in my estimation.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:14 | 2037397 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I paid cash for something at one of those self check out kiosks the other day, and the first option on the touchscreen was to pay with one's government electronic debit card (I assume this is SNAP plus a bunch of other federal AND state programs, in the form of an assistance credidt card).

It wasn't the 2nd option, or the third option, or the fourth.

It was conspicuously the 1st option.

But I don't have one of those preloaded unicorn cards, and chose to pay with post-taxed fiat.

20 cents of each dolla' dolla' bill, y'all, transacting courtesy of Uncle Sugar, Big Brother & The Pyramid Eye, ya dig?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:37 | 2037448 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture
Food stamps? But destroying the family is the number one priority of any government, especially the left of centre.

Families are self governing - no need for the state.
Self disciplining- no need for police and social workers.
Economically stable - no need for welfare and benefits.
Produce educated children - schools can't become the centre of the world.
Have traditional conservative values: i.e, want to keep what they earn to spend it themselves on their children's futures, thus resent high taxation to waste on other people.

The family is the enemy of the state, so the state, a traditionally socialist establishment does everything to destroy it. 

The family is also the prime contributor in tax to the state, so it's a curious relationship where neither want the other to exist but one side is dependent upon it.

That's where the democratic deficit lies: the family has no control over how it's money is wasted by the state. "The family is the enemy of the state. Until the family is destroyed the state cannot take power fully."
Friedrich Engels,  Karl Marx's collaborator.   i'll be corrected i hope if thats wrong.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 02:02 | 2038229 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Sure, and those who are born to narcotic-addicted and/or narcissistic rage-a-holics be damned.

Sophistry is for people much less intelligent than I know you to be, Duke.


Fri, 01/06/2012 - 09:34 | 2038767 LoneCapitalist
LoneCapitalist's picture

Those born to narcotic addicts are damned. Its not the roll of gov. to help them. Its the roll of private citizens.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:15 | 2037190 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:35 | 2037274 CPL
CPL's picture


Did it seem like a hoard of spam bots that love everything about getting ass raped financially?  seekingalpha and lots of sites end up with the bot swarm when opinion needs to be shifted.


We even get it on here if you hadn't noticed.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:38 | 2037284 CPL
CPL's picture

Yeah the article got botted.


Notice how none of the troll accounts have pictures in the forum?  That's a good way to tell.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:52 | 2037486 constitutionalist
constitutionalist's picture

I want to find the guy who wrote it for him...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:14 | 2037400 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Hang him with his own words

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:44 | 2037471 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."


-Barack Hussein Obama


2012 Campaign slogan possibilities:

#1 "You ain't seen nothing yet

#2 "Vote for me... I'll try to do better on the BACK 9"


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:22 | 2037795 JR
JR's picture

Live Without Working – Vote Democrat


Vote Yourself a Living – Vote Democrat


When You Print Money

You Don’t Need Customers

Support the Fed


Can a Maniacal Desire for Destruction

Create a New World? Yes. Vote War Party

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:40 | 2037030 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture


Rules like the debt ceiling are human constructs that do not exist in the real world. In reality, there is no limit to what America can borrow for the following reasons:

  •  China: Because of their inferior appetite for domestic consumption, the Chinese rely heavily on hearty Americans to consume their vast exports. Consequently they must continue to buy our debt to finance this consumption or their export economy will implode.
  • Quantitative Easing: The Federal Reserve Bank of the United States of America is an active player in the domestic bond market, and is able to purchase large quantities of debt in order to drive down yields and allow our government to borrow more cheaply.
  • Keynesian Multipliers: The government can use credit to finance fiscal stimulus programs that increase GDP according to the Investment-Savings Curve:

          GDP Growth = Consumer Spending + Investment(interest rate) + Government Spending + Net Exports

I apologise for spoiling your doomer orgy with logic and facts, but someone has to tell the truth.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:54 | 2037113 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

take a look at the USDX over the last ten years.  The evident loss of purchasing power of dollar holders is nothing less than a tax that enriches the rich and robs the middle class.  So, what were you saying agiain about human constructs when people can't eat real food any longer.  MMM cat food, yummee

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:52 | 2038004 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Y = C + I -G + NX.  fixed it for you MDB.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:54 | 2037117 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Halarious, aren't things like Quantitative Easing, Keynesian Multipliers, and GDP all human constructs as well?  Too funny.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:13 | 2037185 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I think Keynes claimed that QE and his multipliers were a gift from God. As for GDP, well, I don't think it qualifies as a construct, as it's too incoherent to even be considered a complete abstraction. I think one would have to refer to it as an enigma.

At least that's what I was told by the footballer who my daughter's singing coach.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:09 | 2037387 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture

Better not lose another Drone ..


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:32 | 2037438 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture


The captain is the consumer…the consumers determine precisely what should be produced, in what quality, and in what quantities…They are merciless egoistic bosses, full of whims and fancies, changeable and unpredictable. For them nothing counts other than their own satisfaction…In their capacity as buyers and consumers they are hard-hearted and callous, without consideration for other people…Capitalists…can only preserve and increase their wealth by filling best the orders of the consumers… In the conduct of their business affairs they must be unfeeling and stony-hearted because the consumers, their bosses, are themselves unfeeling and stony-hearted.

Ludwig von Mises

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 02:11 | 2038241 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

I can't believe you morons buy that tripe.


a) people buy stupid shit all the time (pet rocks, SUVs, Greek bonds, and facial surgery come to mind)

b) if their whims are 'unpredictable' how do the the capitalists know 'what should be produced' again? (logic: kind of important in reasoning)

c) if you want to feel some stony-hearted callousness, sit on hold because they're laying off the people in bangalore who answer phones


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:54 | 2037492 constitutionalist
constitutionalist's picture

ive seen god a few times, and he doesnt give gifts


Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:55 | 2038118 Drunken Monkey
Drunken Monkey's picture

It's a "she", and you'r right, bloody expensive... But worth every penny :->


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:26 | 2037232 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

No, they’re not. These methodologies are derived from empirical properties of the natural world, such as:

  • Increased spending leads to increased prosperity
  • Economic experts are able to allocate capital more efficiently and objectively than ordinary people


These theories are empirically verifiable by the fact that the Chinese continue to buy our debt, and interest rates remain low regardless of the size of the budget.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:27 | 2037247 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

If CNBC replaced Cramer wth MDB,  99% of the viewers would think MDB is speaking without hyper-irony.  

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:43 | 2037305 thatthingcanfly
thatthingcanfly's picture


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:56 | 2038014 economics1996
economics1996's picture

MDB Savings leads to investment which results in capital investments, prosperity.


Not the same thing as printing and spending, something Keynes never understood.

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 02:18 | 2038249 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

You're confusing Keynes (give money to people, to generate aggregate demand, and only in a depression) with monetarists (give money to banks, anytime they drop the ball or the market tanks...basically what we've seen since 2008).

Q: how much of the gov transfer payments and benefits end up in poor people's bank accounts?

Welfare supports corporations.

Foodstamps support farmers.

But if you want to talk about how we should have nationalized AIG, GS, BAC, C, etc ad nauseam

and restructured them out of existence (instead of hand them hundreds of billions), I'm all ears.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:28 | 2037250 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Until they don't.


Interest rates can remain low as long as the Fed can print.  Unfortunately, it will be less expensive to wipe my ass with a dollar bill and than a square of Charmin by then.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:34 | 2037263 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit, your "theories" work so long as supply chains and energy is infinite and the flux of energy, in particular, can continue to increase exponentially in the closed system that your "theories" are currently confined to.

Moreover, increased "spending" leads to lots of other nasty things too, like hyperinflation and the working poor.

Please don't try to be serious, you are much better as a satirist.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:18 | 2037406 peekcrackers
peekcrackers's picture


well said +1

"Moreover, increased "spending" leads to lots of other nasty things too, like hyperinflation and the working poor"

I'm not sure these days you can use "working" and "poor " together .. I think it has become Slave and and homless

keynesian economics and Its bubble blowing theories can Blow me :-)

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:01 | 2037368 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

ABSURD - the empirically verifiablility MUST BE TIME BOUNDED - like Bernie Madoff's investment scheme when income & value no longer exceed disbursement there is collapse - ALSO empirically not confuse value with construct...'experts' aside - value always asserts itself & when the diachotomy between perceived & actual value become apparent - the experts will need to accept the consequences of their 'allocation'

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:22 | 2037416 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture


Would you give some advice to all your Fed buddies. Have them chill 1 pint of water over night, then load 1 cup of sea salt into the 1 pint of water. Then guzzle the one pint quickly, before this act is done, make sure they have there exhaust pointed at and see how many of your "Economic experts" spray out.   

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:05 | 2037158 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Ok, this is greatly improved over your earlier attempt. You've got logical explanations filled with conventional wisdom, equations, and no expense was spared by going the extra mile with the bullet points and formatting.


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:08 | 2037167 Elijah Craig 18
Elijah Craig 18's picture

Green arrow for the schtick MDB...big fan.

Unfortunately for all of us, human constructs like Keynesian economics-- and debt ceilings --don't exist in the real world either.

Fixed your formula for you...

GDP Implosion = Debt Based Consumer Spending + Investment(real negative interest rates) + Government Deficit Spending + Negative Net Exports.

I appologize but Doom is back on.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:49 | 2037483 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture



I 'd like to say a big well done to everyone today for their mature dialogue with MDB.

It means he has to try harder and put more angst in there.... lets hear the real pain of a 'value investor' in these doomy days.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:51 | 2037316 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture



"The government can use credit to finance fiscal stimulus programs that increase GDP according to theInvestment-Savings Curve:"


The government has created non-productive GDP with this act for the most part. Also increased federal and state level employment is grown with debt upon debt. Productive tax paying business is being smashed under the weight of the monster.

Small to mid cap business that produce these job's are seeing tighter margin's and increased cost of doing business. This alway's freezes expantion, which limit's hiring and in most cases creates un-employment.   

Keynesian need to wake up MDB


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:53 | 2037340 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Unfortunately, the only true aspect of your statement was

human constructs that do not exist in the real world

There are always constraints, boundaries, & limitations no matter if or when HUMANS recognize excesses - each one of the variables depicted in the equation are all absolute, bounded & exist in time...none are capable of approaching infinity without extraordinary negative consequences...if you are truly vested in speaking the truth you would need to be more objective - 1.) Past performance is not indicative of future results; The Chinese may rely on American consumption, however, no behavior remains intact forever - there is a lifecycle to everything - do not confuse the past as a law...2.) QE - if merely printing paper were enough to support a currency your statement would be true, however as history indicates, all financial systems are limited to the most basic element of any transaction; value earned for value received...once participants determine that the enumerated value is inconsistent prices exponentiate..i.e. hyperinflation...again History supports the veracity of my statement - 3) Keynesian Multipliers - when credit & its costs exceeds the potential increase to a government's GDP - i.e. inverts the Investment-Savings Curve - The multiplier produces negative returns & destroys true economic capacity & efficiencies by diverting capital to less prudent uses -

In summary - you would not know the truth if it slapped you in the FACE - but be aware that truth will assert itself -

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:28 | 2037811 JR
JR's picture

Bill Sardi asks in America’s Wealth Eroding: What does Mr. Paul mean when he says this is what happens when "a country destroys its money" and "destroys or eliminates the middle class." What does that mean in dollars and cents?”

Says Sardi: “It means the American people are aggregately losing the value of their banked money at the rate of $16,881 per second, $970,904 per minute, $58,254,253 per hour, $1.398 billion per day, or $510,304,260,000 per year (that’s $510 billion!). That is the most conservative figure, based upon a 7% rate of inflation. The erosion of American wealth could be as high as $780 billion/year if a higher 10% inflation rate is employed. …

As for the inflation rate, Sardi explains the current inflation ruse:

“The federal government says the rate of inflation is around 3%. However, the real rate of inflation is not the 3% figure government provides (government calculations don’t include the cost of fuel or food, for example). According to ShadowStats economist John Williams (, who reverts back to ways the government calculated the rate of inflation in 1990 and 1980, Americans are losing 7% to 10% of purchasing power of their banked money annually.

“Using the 7% figure, that comes to a $510 billion erosion of saved money per year. Using the 10% inflation rate, Americans are losing $780 billion of their banked money via inflation per year.

“In just 5 years $8.505 trillion in aggregate banked wealth will diminish to as little as $4.250 trillion in purchasing power using the 10% inflation estimate. John Williams shows savers who deposited $100 in banked money in 2006 would need $160 today to buy the same amount of goods and services as 5 years ago.”

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 00:04 | 2037974 Element
Element's picture

Rules like the debt ceiling are human constructs that do not exist in the real world. In reality, there is no limit to what America can borrow for the following reasons:


heh ... I just realised who you are with that line ... Marshall Auerback ... give it up Marshall, you'll sucker no one with your MMT fiat money fantasy-whirld here, back to New Deal 2.0 with you, and it looks like you haven't posted over there since mid-July 2011... what's up? ... no one buying the fantasy of endless printing and borrowing? ... but it all makes so much sense!

Or was August 2nd 2011 debt-ceiling circus a-bridge-too-far, even for the MMT bots?

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 01:48 | 2038199 nachtliche
nachtliche's picture

derp of course the debt ceiling is a human construct. it was puprosefully put there to try to enforce some sort of fiscal responsibility, which has failed misterably. 

you have yourself ingredients for a time bomb there. China trades for dollars, we export dollars, that's about it. Once QE is out of control, the dollar will be debased to a point where others will want it less and less, and china will be looking to export for something of value, not dollars, to other countries. I apologise for spoiling your fallacy that everything is just hunky dory and the US can just continue piling on debt with no concequences... such willful ignorance. 

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 07:30 | 2038590 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Well, we're waiting...speak some truth...

Okay, I'll go first:  "ALL things MUST pass!"

Fri, 01/06/2012 - 03:31 | 2038314 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Don't worry! Paul "war with extraterrestrials is the path to our economic salvation" Krugman sodomized his byline in the NYT with the cutest quib of quill on pulp ever claiming it's not real debt, " ... because we owe it to ourselves ...". Gotz to luv that guy! Swear to Buddah on a stack of Tikis: the Krud has gotz the Cramster hands down, bunz up and kneeling!

When was the last time those K-Street Johns we pay as bit actors on CSPAN  wrote a budget ...  Dubby's 7th year (just guessing)?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:09 | 2037388 unclebill
unclebill's picture

They don't even need to print anything anymore.....remember ink and BS cost funny money....Therrefore Solution is....010101010101010010101100101101001010101010101

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:53 | 2037627 dragoneyes74
dragoneyes74's picture

Do we have to raise the debt ceiling for Bernanke to do QE3?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:28 | 2037949 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Not after the creation of the new "Federal Reserve Thousand Year Reichbonds."

Problem solved.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 21:26 | 2037683 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hope & Change.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:16 | 2037922 LiquidityandLunacy
LiquidityandLunacy's picture

Anyone wanna take a guess as to when the US printing happens, putting Japan on deathwatch due to the yen rising to the moon before falling?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:10 | 2036855 digitlman
digitlman's picture

$25 mill is afternoon away?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:10 | 2036867 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

just 24 minutes away...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:12 | 2036877 Irish66
Irish66's picture

I used it to buy BAC and make you a millionaire, congrats

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:16 | 2036910 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

henceforth today will be known as "buffet bailout" day

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:22 | 2037229's picture

Does that mean that I should go back to extending my food budget by hitting all the happy hours with complimentary buffets like I did in college?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:53 | 2037343 Kali
Kali's picture

I know lots of people who are doing this that aren't in college.  I did the same thing in college, didn't pay for any food for months at a time.  Drank way too much tho.......,

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:08 | 2037906 optimator
optimator's picture

Remember how salty the food was.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:16 | 2036862 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

$25 million?  One more Obama vacation and the roof is on fire.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:21 | 2036939 Manthong
Manthong's picture

$25mm won't pay the gas for the next Obama foreign schmooze junket. 

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:38 | 2037283 Rainman
Rainman's picture

it'll pay for 1,562,500 of those $16 muffins tho

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:58 | 2037358 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

What the hell were in those $16 muffins? Organically raised blueberries which were picked by PhDs?

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:37 | 2037594 zebra
zebra's picture

Obama: " Hi Honey, did you pack the inkjet printer in my luggage?"

Michelle: "yes, and extra ink catridges too."


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:38 | 2037595 zebra
zebra's picture

Obama: " Hi Honey, did you pack the inkjet printer in my luggage?"

Michelle: "yes, and extra ink catridges too."


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:10 | 2036863 licutis
licutis's picture

it is amazing how well the propaganda machine is working. Nothing of this in the news anywhere, $25MM will go fast.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:12 | 2036879 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

"news"  ha we don't have "news."  journalism is dead

the media exists to promote the left

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:32 | 2037000 George the baby...
George the baby crusher's picture

So the media is controlled by leftists!  This is indeed a place of learning.  I always thought that the media was controlled by coperations, you know, money!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:40 | 2037041 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Here, I thought it was controlled by the CIA, you know, power!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:31 | 2037260's picture

If the CIA ran the media we might have more reporting that Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapon or a nuclear weapons program. We might also get wider confirmation that "blowback" leads to terrorism rather than a hatred of our freedoms.

Strangely enough the CIA (or some faction within it) seems to be one of the more truthful government agencies these days. The world turned upside down.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:01 | 2037365 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

That is true and extremely frightening.  This link is to a former NSA guy who claims we are well on our way to E German type fascism.  The spooks have a clearer picture of where we are heading and are starting to leak some truth..

"Former senior NSA official Thomas Drake gave an impassioned and angry speech about the degeneration of America from a free society into a fascist police state at the 2011 Sam Adams Award on November 21, 2011." Free North Carolina

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 23:34 | 2037969 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Check out the embedded video in the link at NakedCapitalism:


Lawyer representing Thomas Drake in his ordeal with Obamma's justice department. Listen to the labes affixed to her by the Bush administration and Thomas Drake by the Obamma administration and it gives new meaning to the NDAA, Obamma just signed into law. Think of whistleblowers being detained, tortured or even murdered.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:05 | 2037157 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Amazing how the Left is always the ones kicking corporate and right wing ass for their own pleasure. If it weren't for the dirty hippies we wouldn't be where we are today.  

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:57 | 2037354 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, you silly divide-and-conqueror, you!

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 22:38 | 2037832 pods
pods's picture

The dichotomy is strong with this one!


Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:34 | 2037014 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"the media exists to promote the theft" -  fixed it for you.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 19:48 | 2037480 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

The nature of most plural entities is to line their own pockets at the expense of as many people as possible... The media get a lot of eyeballs... Lucky them...

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 17:41 | 2037046 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

in what bizzero universe does corporate control of the media constitute a left wing activity?

Like many, you have been suckered into thinking that all government largess is socialist. It isnt.

government largess that goes to the PEOPLE is socialism, but government largess that goes to CORPORATIONS is crony capitalism.

learn the difference and stop being such a puppet of the crony corporations who rely on just such misunderstandings

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:27 | 2037246's picture

Progressive and conservative (as they are popularly understood) are two faces of the oligarchy. They each get plenty of play in the media.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:00 | 2037146 licutis
licutis's picture

I use to believe it was leftists then i figured out they play both sides against each other for maximum control.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:22 | 2037549 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

 NOTW777-Then Dont ever drag your neo con ass into one our Blue states.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:24 | 2037237's picture

Ron Paul should make a point of bringing this up in the weekend debate. Unfolding events make the best endorsement for his campaign.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 18:59 | 2037362 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Especially when they've all been predicted by him years in advance, thank C-SPAN.

Thu, 01/05/2012 - 20:25 | 2037556 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

I would like Ron Paul to elaborate more on his exterme pro-life stance. If he wasnt so lazy eyed in that regard he would be amuch more electable person.

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