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A History Of US Defense Spending Since FDR; And Where Obama And Romney Differ

Tyler Durden's picture


Presented with little comment, via Bloomberg Insider's Convention 2012 Issue; the history of military spending (which we discussed recently) and the $400bn divide between Obama and Romney's agenda.


Source: Bloomberg



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Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:16 | 2746602 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Where Obama And Romney Differ


Could start with the whole Marxist vs Capitalist thingy.


.....and I'm pretty sure that comment is gonna piss off just about everyone.


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:18 | 2746631 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I'm wondering how anybody could believe any estimate given by either of them!?!

Dumb fucking sheep!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:36 | 2746703 malikai
malikai's picture

What strikes me is how could we have spent 11.6% during the Korean war? Well, on second thought, maybe is was all that money we spent on the nuclear program making all those cool videos of south pacific islands being vaporized.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:55 | 2746769 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Defense spending as a percentage of GDP is one of the most useless statistics for measuring defense spending or any spending. One, it doesn't reference the increase in the money supply, it doesn't offset the growth in government spending, it doesn't include intelligence agencies, there is a laundry list of items that would skew the percentage much higher- especially if we calculated GDP properly- minue government spending!

Obama nor Romney are not in charge of spending- the CONGRESS is. They are in charge of starting and maintaining undeclared, unconstitutional wars for the benefit of murdering our children and the world's people. While industrialists and corporations use the huge profits to offset any increase in tax obligations. 

I really hate this kind of crap.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:04 | 2746797 AnonymousAnarchist
AnonymousAnarchist's picture

Agreed on the meaninglessness of GDP in determining what "defense" spending "should" be.

The embedded graphic also excludes "war funding" from the "defense" budget. Have not checked to see when the USG started doing this but it could mess up historical comparisons.  This graphic shows them both.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:52 | 2746958 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It doesn't appear to exclude war funding during the 1941-45 period.  Maybe they're trying to compare the apples with the 5.56X45s.  (Oranges are at least a fruit.)  There's nothing like a raft of bullshit nonsense to start the day, eh?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:45 | 2747149 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

You've not been paying close enough attention.  The current occupant of the White House has been spending money without authorization from CONGRESS for quite some time.  The most recent example is work for wellfare which he unilaterally is ignoring.  Our real problem is that our CONGRESS does not have the balls to do anything about it.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:47 | 2747158 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

CONGRESS has lower approval rating than white house


CONGRESS hold the purse strings.


CONGRESS passed bank bailouts.


any questions?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:59 | 2747199 Buzz Fuzzel
Buzz Fuzzel's picture

Like I said CONGRESS does not have the balls to do anything about it.  What we need is a good old fashioned Coup d'etat.  What we are likely  to get is a French Revolution since we have not Washingtons, Adams or Jeffersons in our current political leadership.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 14:15 | 2747279 monad
Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:10 | 2747034 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Those weren't nukes, it was Jon Corzine.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:08 | 2746812 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

is the phrase "4% GDP growth" an oxymoron or just an oxymormon?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:20 | 2746638 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Capitalism died long ago.  You didn't get the memo?  The choices bfore you are:



a) The devil you know

b) The devil you know, but white. 

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:26 | 2746660 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Sorry, but I don't know what race has to do with this choice.  That's not even in the equation, as far as I'm concerned.  Neither choice is what I want, but race will have nothing to do with my decision.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:34 | 2746697 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



You brought it must be a racist!!!


I sentence you to 3 years of watching Chris then have to translate the slurred words to the chalkboard.


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:40 | 2746720 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Ole "wiffle ball" will be out of the cable business soon enough.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:49 | 2747163 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

the choice is the devil you know (white)....or the devil you know (half white)

still whites win.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 17:40 | 2748008 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

No, no one wins.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 17:41 | 2748010 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Can he step in front of  tractor trailer doing 80 mph instead?

It would be more merciful.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:48 | 2746743 11b40
11b40's picture

Maybe not your vote, FL Conservative, but to deny racism is running very deep in this election means you are either lying or really, really stupid.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:05 | 2746799 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

Hey GetZeeGold, here's that racist comment you were looking for!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:59 | 2746785 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

You did not get it, there is actually no difference, just like a lemon, why do you care if the car is blue or grey, the car is a lemon anyway.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:11 | 2746822 FL_Conservative
FL_Conservative's picture

You're wrong.  I "get it" very well.  Voters can choose between the crony that will pander to labor unions and the TBTF financials, or the crony that will do the bidding of the GOP establishment.  IMO the only difference is that the economy will improve more under the latter.  In either case, liberty and personal freedom will get the shaft.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:14 | 2747050 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"the economy will improve more under the latter."

Perhaps you meant to say "decline less", regardless, it is hairsplitting - a "brain cancer or heart cancer" type of choice.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:24 | 2747082 11b40
11b40's picture

Too funny.  You actually think Romney isn't butt buddies with the too big to fail bankers?

Here is a suggestion.  Check out this breaking news from Matt Taibbi in Rolling Stone, then get back to us.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:52 | 2747170 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Romney has 2 objectives....

1) derail little reform of Dodd Frank for good of wall st. (he is from private equity background)

2) get in more debt for war in Iran as welfare for oil  and military industrial complex (republican bread and butter)


He doesn't give a shit for you.

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 07:26 | 2747303 monad
monad's picture

Adolf Hitler would have loved Mormon. It is consistent with his beliefs and pogroms. Its as if Odessa switched tactics and infiltrated America... nah. Winston Churchill sure did flip though.

Gott Mit RMONEY 2052


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:34 | 2747106 Andre
Andre's picture

Race has one effect-

One has more teflon than the other.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:45 | 2746732 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

Capitalism is alive and well, unfortunately it is not free enterprise capitalism but corporate monopolism, crony capitalism and welfare statism. Spending on "defense" is social malinvestment of the worst sort, it produces negative returns and gaurantees increasing and eventually unsustainable debt. Whether we go to hell in a blue or red handbasket is really irrelevant.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:55 | 2747186 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

you know what they call that kind of capitalism when it is done in Europe????




yup, US is  a fascist country.

Sat, 09/01/2012 - 07:57 | 2754762 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Without wanting to make an argument for or against your comment,
Fascism in europe was gov slapping corporations in gov's ranks, according one party's plans.

What you are describing is corporations steering gov's course throgh campaign contributions and lobbyism.

How about Plutocracy?

Plenty of historic examples for that, including classic "democratic" Athens in it's imperial phase.

Plutocracy: the Rule of Finance/Money.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:26 | 2746659 john39
john39's picture

how can anyone believe there is any practical difference between the two?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:43 | 2746726 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Well, one of them wasn't groomed by Soviet Communists for 20+ years to be installed as President in order to undermine and collapse the United States of America.

This is NOT an endorsement of Mitt Romney.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:06 | 2746804 walküre
walküre's picture

George Soros is a big Obama supporter. How does that compute with the "Soviet Communist" thingy?

Banks have been the biggest WINNERS of the current administration. I didn't read that in the MANIFEST anywhere.

Obama must have studied a different MANIFEST if he really did.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:27 | 2746873 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Wall Street bankers financed the Russian Revolution-- it's fairly well documented. You obviously don't know much about the connection between the One World banking elite and communism.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:03 | 2747000 UGrev
UGrev's picture

The enemy of my enemy.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 17:36 | 2747999 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Socialism is all about spending other peoples money.  Every Marxist dictator worth his/her salt has a Swiss bank account.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:50 | 2746750 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Makes little difference which one is captain of the ship, one way or another it will run aground and the response we'll get once again is 'who could have predicted it?'

It really smells like we're back in the 2008 election again.

Further...anyone who buys that tripe about Romney 'fixing' anything is wasting their time. It'll be new 'hope and change' but it will never come.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:59 | 2746782 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

I think it smells a bit like 2004..

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 14:19 | 2747300 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

It does not matter who is the captain of this ship. Some one else set it on auto cruise to the destination demise.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:28 | 2746667 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture



Doesn't piss me off it's funny but also true since entitlement spending surpassed defense spending in 1974 .

If it pisses people off it's just because they don't really understand that Marxist's whine about defense spending but do plenty of it themselve's just in a different way it's then called the people's army.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:19 | 2746849 TrulyStupid
TrulyStupid's picture

There is a diffference in the impact of defense vs entitlement spending.

Firstly, if the entitlements are funded by exsiting or increased taxation, the budget is balanced and the money pushed down to the bottom of the economic pyramid and filters back upwards... priming the pump. Whens defense spending, a lot of which is spent overseas and written off on unproductive enterprises, is not funded (by increased tax revenues) the deficit balloons. When military spending is put on steroids and simultaneously taxes are cut.. as has been the trend since 2001... the deficit balloons, interest rates are manipulated downward, real productivity drops and bankruptcy looms.

Both parties are on the same train and no amount of red herring bullshit can alter the economic consequences of the accumulated debt.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:29 | 2746674 surf0766
surf0766's picture

Anti-colonial marxist theology  vs capitalism

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:45 | 2746735 11b40
11b40's picture

Which one is the Capitalist?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:48 | 2746744 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

clearly the one who wins the house on the capitol

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:47 | 2746741 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

curious on the military spending and tax rates of any falling empire. Bet they go in one direction

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 14:09 | 2747238 monad
monad's picture

The diff is the waffle pattern they make on your face. 

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:12 | 2746604 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hey Tyler here is one for you. CNBC claims that China not Wallstreet caused the financial crisis.


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:19 | 2746624 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Those damn irresponsible Chinese savers are to blame. A pox on their house.

So............when do we leave the brown skins alone and start bombing the yellow skins?

<Ya gotta read the entire (short) article. It is hilarious.>


The study from the Erasmus Research Institute of Management says the saving frenzy of the Chinese created the cheap money, which fueled the U.S. housing bubble and its collapse.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:21 | 2746644 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Uhm, why would we do that? Wouldn't they fight back?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:29 | 2746672 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Gotta destroy some infrastructure so we can build it back up.

Only this time it is America's turn to be the bombee.

<Taking the PONZI to stage two in 3.....2.....>

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:24 | 2746654 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I wish I could be paid to simply make shit up....

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:29 | 2746671 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

poetic ...given that shit use to be the world's fuel and probably will be again

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:32 | 2746681 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Mrs Cog has a solar oven.

Ain't that the shit? :)

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:48 | 2746742 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I'm in the process of building a solar dehydrator right now. Well, as soon as I get my ass off this chair and back in the garage. Solar power is great for very low-tech uses.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:51 | 2746756 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny how all other forms of life use the sun. Wonder if they think we're retarded.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:06 | 2746806 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

My garden laughs at me everytime I water and weed it. :)

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 20:33 | 2748378 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Dog's attitude:  "You feed me and take care of me, you must be a God!"

Cat's attitude: "You feed me and take care of me, I must be a God!"

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:55 | 2746770 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I need to get my ass in gear on projects like that. I've been reading up on areas where I can utilize solar power and not expend a great deal of money, but haven't motivated myself to do it.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:03 | 2746792 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

If you haven't already, start with a greenhouse.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:19 | 2746847 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

somebody hates early germination

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:26 | 2746869 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

No they just hate you.

Haters gonna hate.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:30 | 2747086 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

but I believe in free love. I believe we should pay our way for everything but not love. At least that's what my elected prosecutor says. And does this mean your negative vote means they hate you or they hate you saying they hate me? This is getting spastica  

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 16:00 | 2747692 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Actually, I hated myself.


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:19 | 2748102 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I abuse myself too but the form it takes is more connected with "love" than hate

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:55 | 2746970 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Robotrolls who junk just to get their rocks off.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:34 | 2746686 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You can...My sister's ex live in girl friend's best friends mom earns $100,000 a month sitting on the toilet while smoking a cigarette and drinking  Boones Farm at her computer.  All you have to do is go to this web site...

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:49 | 2746749 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Biting sarcasm +1

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:32 | 2746684 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

not only did those commie bastards start saving their own money, they stopped buying our toilet paper. Clearly an act of war  

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:05 | 2746800 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"they stopped buying our toilet paper."

I had to hold the beer in my mouth for almost a minute while the crippling laughter subsided; these moments are nearly half the reason I read this site.  :-)

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:40 | 2746920 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You're drinking a bit early, aren't you?  I try to wait to afternoon.

The commie TP was something to behold.  It was really not much different than using your finger;  the finger normally pierced the TP.  But, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on one's state of mind, it more often than not was unavailable.  Until one has experienced commie TP, one still does not really appreciate western civilization as we know it and what the end will be like.

Western TP was reserved for the wealthy elites.  

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:12 | 2747045 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"I try to wait to afternoon."  I usually do, too, friend; here in Taiwan, it's an hour past midnight.  :-)

As for the TP, (I really thought the guy was refering to UST), but I finally made it west-east across China last year, and I agree that market competition results in better products for the consumer, tissues fairly included.  The Thailand ass-sprayer still trumps all, hands down.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:03 | 2747002 ZeroHour
ZeroHour's picture

2 thumbs up for the George Carlin reference.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 14:11 | 2747254 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture
George Carlin -"Who Really Controls America"

Boy did he get it right - miss the dude!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:12 | 2746605 Capitalist
Capitalist's picture

They will need that military when the martial law executive order comes through.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:21 | 2746646 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

That order was issued on 09-11-2001.

But what's the sense in telling us when we good ants are perfectly happy to blindly carry on?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:14 | 2746609 WeAreJellyfish
WeAreJellyfish's picture


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:30 | 2746679 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

holy shit, how much cocaine do you snort?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:35 | 2746701 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Looks like all of it all the time. :)

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:36 | 2746706 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Apparently not enough, since he's still coherent enough to turn on the computer and navigate to this site.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:29 | 2746613 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

A trillion here, a trillion there.

Before you know it you're talking real money.

<Actually it's all fake....but what do I know?>

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:14 | 2746615 cooperbry
cooperbry's picture

Yeah, well, I'm still not voting for Obama !

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:18 | 2746630 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Wow......who's gonna pay for your house and gas? What about your shovel ready job?


Where as all the hope gone?


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:23 | 2746652 prains
prains's picture

neither clowns are going to fix anything


this is about which 20 corporations are going to get all the graft and which 100 congressmen are going to get better stock options

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:28 | 2746666 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Ryan is stoked on his stock options.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:24 | 2746655 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Bishop Romney is going to fix everything!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:44 | 2746728 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Anyone hear the Convention yea and nay votes on the (brand new) proecedural rules making sure Ron Paul would have all his numbers taken away? Interesting tape.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 17:58 | 2748050 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



"Bishop Romney is going to fix everything!"


Including the election?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:30 | 2746620 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Wait a minute I thought Romney was the conservative?  I am confused. < sarc off >

Better buy some more silver, gold, and lead on this dip just in case.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:16 | 2746622 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I only wish romney was planning to pay for all that himself. Maggot.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:17 | 2746628 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I assume the DHS behemoth doesn't count as a defense expenditure....if not , where is that line item hidden away....??

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:43 | 2746724 jay28elle
jay28elle's picture

good point, rainman.  And how about DHS orders of the 750 gazillion rounds of ammo, all the new drones, and not to leave out the DOJs weapons to the Mexican drug cartels.  Oh, scratch that last point.. I forgot that these are to be used against Americans and innocent Mexicans.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:20 | 2746634 chistletoe
chistletoe's picture

seems to me that the numbers used as the defense department budget do not really tell any more of the honest story than the numbers coming out of BLS these days .... ssems to me that you ought to add in all the "emergency approrpriations" every year for the continuing  wars of aggression and occupation in the middle east, and then most or all of the TSA budget, the CIA budget, the off-the-books NSA budget ... and the VA buget, and the nuclear weapons component of the department of energy, and then all of the pensions for all the people retired from those occupations formerly .... taken altogether its about twice the amount you are reporting here .... and its really an obscene amount of money and manpower, when you really get down to it, its embarrasing how little they accomplish with it ....

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:19 | 2746635 fuu
fuu's picture

I finally found a song for you Tyler:

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:21 | 2746640 prains
prains's picture

this is romneys pitch telling all the grifters they'll be able to back up thier trucks to the door and he'll help throw the money in, "if you think Obamney's been throwin around the cash, you ain't seen nutin yet fellas" _ mittens

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:21 | 2746642 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Real US military spending is not $650 billion in 2013 as shown in the graph but $994.3 billion.

"While everyone knows that the defense budget is large -- even in the numbers that the public sees as the formally admitted figures by the Department of Defense -- the truth is that when one scratches beneath the bureaucratic veneer, national security spending is much larger, nearly double the amount US citizens are told."

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:05 | 2746802 Lord Blankcheck
Lord Blankcheck's picture

What ever happened to the $2.3 trillion Rumsfeld said the DOD could not account for in 2001?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:21 | 2746854 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

I'm sorry, but you've answered your own question.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:15 | 2747054 Lord Blankcheck
Lord Blankcheck's picture

It  was a rhetorical question.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:21 | 2746645 jjsilver
jjsilver's picture

There is no difference, only the appearance (illusion) of one. These puppets strings are pulled by the same master

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:22 | 2746648 dudebum
dudebum's picture

Hallelujah for something that at least bears a passing resemblance to a fact-based commentary on the candidates positions.*


*Unlike 95% of what I hear in the mm.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:24 | 2746651 Morrotzo
Morrotzo's picture

"Chinese Saving frenzy"=not having 5 grand on your credit cards, not having a giant mortgage payment on your underwater house for the next 30 years, not having 10 grand on your car, not having 20 grand on your student loans for your Mestizo Bisexual Taco-Bending Bachelor's degree. Saving 20 percent of your money is not a bad thing. Being gigantically in debt with a completely unsellable house IS.



Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:40 | 2746716 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The chinese made us borrow that money! It's not our fault! I didn't want this expansive lifestyle, it was forced on me!  /s

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:23 | 2746653 billwilson
billwilson's picture

After all it makes perfect sense to borrow ALL the money spent on defense from your biggest potential enemies - China et al.

FIRST - slash defense by 50%, then we can talk about medicare etc.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:39 | 2746715 adr
adr's picture

Slash Medicaid, Food Stamps, Unemployment, SS Disability, and Welfare first. You might need some of that defense money to put down the ghetto riots.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:42 | 2746722 XitSam
XitSam's picture

The DHS and over a billion rounds of 9mm hollow points are not on the defense budget.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:08 | 2746814 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I think they are .40 S&W.  9mm doesn't cut it if the proles are wearing body armor.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:23 | 2746862 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Why slash defense when you can borrow that money from your (inevitably future) enemies?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 17:53 | 2748035 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Please get a clue.  50% of the defense budget wouldn't cover the bill for food stamps and welfare.  Medicare is a $100 trillion unfunded liability.  Fix Medicare first!  Then everything else will be easy.


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:28 | 2746668 ultraticum
ultraticum's picture

Tyler, thanks for pointing out the first real difference between the two bankster man-children.  Voting for either is an affirmation of your slavery to the status quo.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:26 | 2746871 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Agreed, big time.  I don't accept the 'lesser of evils' as a mandate for presidency because I am strictly anti-fascist. As fascism goes, though, spending levels can be quantified; thanks Tyler for a graphic, even if it is these scarcely meaningful projections.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:29 | 2746669 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Why call it defense spending really, when was the last time we used our troops in self defense. Sure, I grant some operations after 9/11 wereclearly in our defense, and I am sure we are greatful for them. On the other hand, what passes for our defense now is more likley to involve empire building and operations in the interests of globalization and corporations needs.

We all know the "war is a racket" quote, it is clearly true at this point. We spend the same as the next 24 countries combined, there is no credible threat other than economic and the military is pretty piss poor at making over the US economy into a competitive economy, quite the opposite, it's bloated spending drags us down.

I am for defense, I am a veteran who volunteered in war time, even though that war was total BS. Note to self, when young the mind can't grasp that the bigger powers are liars. Young folks take note!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:37 | 2746709 adr
adr's picture

Well we can only hope that our military comes to the country's aid when Obamas DHS force is unleashed on the unsuspecting population.

Of course our military will be at a disadvantage since they will not have a couple hundred million hollow point rounds at their disposal.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:57 | 2746777 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

The US military exists for one reason: To protect the financial interests of a few very rich and very powerful people.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:13 | 2746831 11b40
11b40's picture

Roger that, Jack.

For many of us, our personal experience in the military some 40 odd years ago turned us into permanent skeptics.  The bitter taste of deception lingers long.  The memory of the waste, the loss, & the futility can't be erased.

Just wait until all the ME war vets get home and the reality sets in over the coming decades.  Our longest war is going to leave a lot of cynics in it's wake.  Who knows waht the repurcussions will be for the country.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:31 | 2746889 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

11b40, My son-in-law is one of those new Middle East war vets. He got called up from his Army reserve status and retrained as part of a new combat unit. His new unit then deloyed to Iraq to escort convoys at the height of the fighting. His vehicle was blown up twice and his convoys were regularly attacked by road side bombs or AK-47 and RPG fire.

A number of his comrades were killed, several right before his eyes.

Now he is out of the Army and home for sevreal years. He has brain injury from the explosions, not crippling, but a problem. And the dreaded Post traumatic stress disorder. This comes from from the hundreds of days on the road waiting for the bomb or the attack, the stress of wating builds up, once the attack happens it is almost a relief.

He has yet to figure out how badly he was used, and I have not expressed that opinion. This was his experience, not mine, so he will have to come to terms with it.

Too many lies were told so the establishment could get their war on Iraq. It is not the elites who paid any price for it, it is always the patriotic young guy who thought he was doing his duty to his fellow citizens. Jesus, how dumb we can be when young!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:22 | 2747137 11b40
11b40's picture

Jack, you have my profound sympathy, and I wish your family the very best possible outcome.

The mental toll that these troops are going through cannot be explained, only experienced.  In Viet Nam, the tour was for a year.  Very few did more than one tour, and then it was almost always voluntary.  Now, with these guys facing 3rd, 4th, and even 5th deployments, the damage inflicted on them is literally mind blowing.

The fear and depression that must be overcome on a daily basis equate to a continous internal battle.  Imagine waking up every morning wondering if you would live to see tomorrow.  Think how it must feel to ride those roads waiting for the next ambush or IED, while that knot in your stomach gets bigger and bigger.  What every combat soldier soon learns is how random violent events are, and no matter how good you are, fate can come to visit.  You know in your gut that if you stay long enough, your rondezvous with fate will arrive.  That knowledge brings depression and anger.  The survivors come home with it, and it has to go somewhere.  It may be the common drug/alcohol manisfestation, or divorce, or an inability to blend back in, or even suicide.

The true criminals among us are the vermin that pass for leadership.  The ones who sell us out to needless war.  War for profit.  I have been, and would go again if truly needed...but have told my son hell no, don't you go, because these latest military adventures are criminal.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:16 | 2746838 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"some operations after 9/11 wereclearly in our defense. . ."

Which ones were those?  I missed them.  I must not have been paying attention or watching the MSM.

"I am a veteran who volunteered in war time, even though that war was total BS."

Stupid is as stupid does.  Why did you volunteer if you knew it was wrong?  To be able to get duty in Germany instead of the rice paddies of SE Asia?  If so, why do you call yourself a "veteran"?  Veteran of the bier halls?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:42 | 2746921 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

You have a serious problem in reading comprehension. Do you want to know if I dodged NAM?  I am all to familar with the deal at the time, a 3 year enlistment in exhange for a European deployment.

Sorry to burst your angry bubble, but that was not my service, and that was the Army, not my service. Beer Halls? No.

Stupid is as stupid does. And what do you expect from a 17 year old kid who was heavily indoctrinated in America's Right?

Since you know all about it, you reveal your combat record and I'll reveal mine. Hint, was I ever shot at? Yes, I have been shot at with the intent to kill. So what?  Plenty of men can say that. Sorry, if I have another life, I will run to Canada and spare myself 6 years of bullshit from the military and bullshit from malcontents like you!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:47 | 2746939 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Oh FeralSerf, Are you telling me President George Bush did not defend America after 9/11? He most certainly did. Plenty of dead Taliban can testify to that. Though Mr. Bush dodged NAM by going into the Texas Air National Guard, and then going AWOL, that does not mean he wasn't a commander in chief that the people elected twice!

Fact is he was dead wrong to go into Iraq, he was dead right to go after the terror network in Afghanistan, he should have left after making them pay a price.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:06 | 2747009 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Are you trying to claim the Taliban were a threat to America and/or the Taliban had something to do with 9/11?  If so, you haven't learned much since you were 17 years young and stupid.

What "terrorist network in Afghanistan"?  The "terrorist network" that stopped the flow of desperately needed heroin to America's heartland?

George Bush did not defend America after 9/11 -- there I said it.  If you believe otherwise, you're hopeless.  He sucked as much wealth out of the middle class as he and his co-conspirators could and transferred it to his friends and superiors.  He and his crew were responsible for the deaths of over a million innocent people.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:20 | 2747064 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Taliban did not conduct 9/11, totally agree. But they did provide the safe haven for the terrorist network. They even offered to turn Osama over if the USA produced evidence that he was involved in 9/11. That is clear proof Taliban had some measure of control over him and his network.

One might ask why Germany was not bombed, Hamburg was where the plot was hatched and perfected. One might ask why the terrorrists walked right past pass port control and immigration when several were on the terrorrist watch list. One might wonder at the FBI's lack of interests in the Middle Eastern Flight School men. I could go on and on.

The US intelligence and police forces were worse than useless on 9/11.


Bush did attack Taliban in retaliation for their harboring Osama and his friends. That was okay by me. Iraq was a criminal enterprise, just like NAM was a criminal enterprise.

And stop picking on 17 year olds, like you were a god dam genious at 17?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 14:17 | 2747287 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You don't really believe that Osama did 9/11, do you?   That the conspiracy theory of all conspiracy theories.  It's more accurate to call it a "conspiracy hypothesis" though.

Osama had neither the means nor the opportunity to commit that terrorist act.  Means and opportunity of that operation were/are restricted to the American and Israeli government black-op forces.  They did it because no one else could do it.  Pilots giving command of their aircraft to terrorists with box cutters  that didn't get on the flight manifest ?  No pilots that I know would have ever done such a thing.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:00 | 2748053 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Dude you are way off. Everyone was told back before 9-11 that the smart thing to do in the event of a hijack was to COOPERATE with the hijackers and let the negotiators resolve things. Some stuck to that approach even after they knew that these assholes were going to suicide the plane using it as a weapon!

And oh yes, a fucking passenger jet can so bring down an entire sky scraper, especially the twers because of the high temperatures that the jet fuel reached and the aluminum coating put on the supports that acted like metal tender and caught fire melting the supports.

Jesus H Christ, you 9-11 Truthers have really drank the leftist Bullshit Kool Aid.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:01 | 2748057 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

You are exactly right.

We should have gone  in and killed as many al Qaeda as possible, removed the Taliban and then left the bastards to rebuild on their own dime and blood.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 18:30 | 2748062 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Dan Rather is that you???  Don't you remember how your staff fabricated the AWOL documents?  Remember how they were proven more fake than Obama's birth certificate?

History will show that it was correct to go into Iraq.  No nukes, yes true.  But recall that with Saddam in power the US maintained a huge military presence in Saudi Arabia while Saddam shot at us virtually every day, all the while using the UN's Food for Oil program to hold power.  Saddam said before his execution that he would have redeveloped his nuclear capability the moment we were gone, that he made it seem like he still had them to keep the Iranians guessing.  Is the Middle East now a zone of peace, no.  Is it better than it was, yes.  Did it serve our long term interests, yes.  Did we pay a lot for that, absolutely.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:28 | 2746670 BattlegroundEur...
BattlegroundEurope2011's picture

All that spending and ppl in the rest of the world still hate the US. Go figure.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:16 | 2747057 Metalredneck
Metalredneck's picture

We are all just jealous of your freedoms.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:37 | 2746690 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Romney will need a strong dollar to fund the MIC like that.  Good luck explaining to Americans stocks had to get cut in half to protect us from the axis of evil.

If there is one thing America needs it is their free monies.

Besides, the UST needs a weak dollar to pay the existing debt and the Fed wants a weak dollar because they print that shit for free and could give a fuck.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:35 | 2746699 adr
adr's picture

Like defense spending matters with $100 trillion or more in unfunded welfare liabilities.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:55 | 2746768 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

A .27 cent bullet (defense spending) goes a long ways at reducing the $100 Trillion dollar liabilities if every .27 cent bullet can single handedly eliminate a person that represents a $100,000 liability.

So, actually, defense spending is "investing" in America's future!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:21 | 2746855 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to convert the nation's food supply to ethanol and burn it in a fleet of 5mpg, monster pickup trucks and thereby starve all those little buggers before they even get into kindergarten?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:41 | 2746922 pasttense
pasttense's picture

Didn't you ever read about this? In the Vietnam war it took tens of thousands of bullets for each kill.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:59 | 2746772 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

at this mathematical point, all spending matters

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:30 | 2746886 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Morally, too.  And that includes taxes paid to terrorist regimes.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:36 | 2746702 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture


     First off, it should read US Offense Spending....and as for Mitt and Barack:  can u say Mirror Image!

     Buy physical gold and Silver...while still available.


Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:38 | 2746710 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

We are piss poor Empire if you ask me.  Historically, Empires would pillage foreign lands in order to reap the spoils (and pay for their expenses).  Junkers, I am not an imperialist, I do not condone the actions.  But if you choose the path, do it right...

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:52 | 2746762 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I think youre speaking about the profound incompetence that plagues America now.  We cant even be a decent bad guy now.  We suck at being good and we suck at being bad.  The one thing we are good at is sucking at everything.

Go merica! Fuck yeah!

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:38 | 2746712 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

This article would be far more interesting if the chart included lines for Ron Paul's proposed defense spending in comparison to the two clowns presented.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:40 | 2746717 Cranios
Cranios's picture

So, we have a President who has used executive orders to actually invalidate laws that were duly passed by the Congress and signed by past Presidents.

Then, we have Romney.

If some of you guys really think there is no difference between a guy who believes in the rule of law (Romney) and Barack Obama (who believes in whatever he can get away with doing), then you must be smoking something.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:13 | 2746829 Overfed
Overfed's picture

That same Ro-money who had the rules changed on the spot in order to shut out Ron Paul at the RNC? He believes in the rule of law? Surely you jest.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:43 | 2746927 pasttense
pasttense's picture

What are you talking about? Romney has already made clear he is going to use executive orders to kill Obamacare.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 13:16 | 2747056 11b40
11b40's picture

Bush perfected that practice.  Just do a very small ammount of reserch.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:43 | 2746727 FiatFapper
FiatFapper's picture

100k troops @ $11.25billion pa = $112,500 per year per soldier


Private (E1) $17,892 (Pay for Private (E1) will be slightly lower for the first four months of service.)


Sceptical of those that exaggerate a million times.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:01 | 2746788 jay28elle
jay28elle's picture

are you suggesting a E1 is only costing us 18k per year?  with total comp, plus training, housing, feeding, transportation, etc, not to mention that not all soldiers are E1. 100k-ish may not be too much of a stretch. 

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:30 | 2746885 walküre
walküre's picture

That's a little more than the cost of one inmate at a Federal prison to the taxpayer.

FYI. The inmate gets paid nothing.

Do judges who throw everyone and their dog into prisons own shares in corporations who build and maintain prisons?

You fucking bet your bottom Dollar they do.

America, i$n't it great?

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 11:46 | 2746736 Sofa King Confused
Sofa King Confused's picture

I for one, am completely tired of all this BS....fake market... PM's fake pricing... all corrupt lying govts...fake debt...fake money....fake claims leading to wars or invasions....lying MSM.... lying from financial news channels.....illegal income taxes..... illegal property taxes....being a slave to the system and bankers.....corrupt corporations....especially Monsatan... Fuck It


If there is an alien by chance reading this please come and take me off this fucking planet

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 12:34 | 2746895 YouAreBliss
YouAreBliss's picture

LMAO!!!!  With you brother!!

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