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How Europe Has Evolved From A Democracy To A Bankocracy And Why Austerity Will Lead To Chaos

Tyler Durden's picture




 

In one of the clearest (and most optically pleasing) discussions of recent months, David McWiliams (of Punk Economics) succinctly explains how Europe has evolved from a democracy to a bankocracy, the implications of which lead to austerity for the people and a Franco-German imposition (the 'fiscal compact') that can only lead to social unrest and chaos. In this brief (and expertly illustrated) video, the Irish economist clarifies Europe's 'dirty little secret' where economic policy is being run almost exclusively for the banks which, as we see in Greece and Ireland, means the political elite are becoming more and more detached from the people. The terror of the r-word (referendum) looms large as McWilliams analogizes the two ways out of a debt crisis (squeeze the debtor or forgive the debtor) with the catholic and protestant perspectives on sin and forgiveness. While falling short of calling for governments to go full-Keynesian (everyone knows you never go full-Keynesian), he (focusing on the problems of the current hopeful solution) summarizes the fiscal union as envisaged by France and Germany (which actually penalizes countries that are in trouble, rather than help them) as not a friendly-union but a vindictive strait-jacket put in place to help banks, not countries. It comes as no surprise to him that the price of Gold (and Bunds) is firm as the 'example' that Greece is likely to set (or face extreme social upheaval) will domino-like stumble across the other troubled nations and as he points "we have been warned". Our view remains that austerity works if countries manage to cut expenses while keeping a balance. Alas, the balance is out of skew due to 30 years of runaway full-Keynesianism, which leads indeed to the problems that McWilliams so well espouses.

 

 

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Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:53 | 2126830 JeremyWS
JeremyWS's picture

right.... ok.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:06 | 2126844 Future Tense
Future Tense's picture

It's crazy this same thing is coming to Japan.  The pattern is simple now and can be extrapolated out over every country.  Good discussion with charts here on Greece vs. Portugal vs. Japan (who's up next):

http://www.ftense.com/2012/01/shorting-japanese-government-bonds.html

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:47 | 2126977 knight99
knight99's picture

Tyler,

Could you clarify one thing

1. Is Germany stance still to control Greek finances or is that off the table.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:37 | 2127095 flacon
flacon's picture

That video is Keynesian propaganda. What we really need is aliens to bail out the central banks and loan us more money at interest, now THAT is a solution we can all live with, until the star ship Enterprise comes to save us. / I'm being sarcastic

 

Fuck this shit economics! The Austrian way is the ONLY way - full reserve banking, no "borrow-and-spend", personal austerity (savings), and an end to global and national governance. 

 

At least he gets some things right, like letting the banks share the blame (although he labels this as the "Catholic" approach, vs, the protestant approach of "too big to fail"- I don't think the pope or Martin Luther have anything to do with the crisis, but he does).

 

"OWE NO MAN ANYTING." ~ THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:19 | 2127338 dcb
dcb's picture

yes and no, everyone who p[osts on here seems to forget keynes advocated ton save in good times, and only looks at the spending side. I don't get this, but it really is a 1/2 truth you see all over this site.

In fact both were right.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:10 | 2127605 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

europe has been a bankocracy since the fall of Rome.
The House of Medici, the House of Bardi. Those were folowed by the Fugger banking mafia which continues to this day:

http://www.fuggerbank.de/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugger

The Fugger bankers are responsible for europe's (and the world's) endless wars.
Spain was so much in debt that most of the gold and silver looted from the new world ended up in the Vatican and in the Fugger vaults.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:54 | 2127708 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Austerity fails if you do not liquidate the debt.  Keeping the debt on the books, taxing the public to pay the debt, only prolongs the pain.  The solution is complete liquidation, and shrinking governments, massive lay off of government workers, and returning to realistic levels of government not exceeding 25% of the GDP.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:05 | 2127732 economics1996
economics1996's picture

The Keynesian “Paradox of thrift” argument is bull shit. 

The economy does BETTER if people save, real savings, because they forgo consumption by savings, and with REAL savings interest rate decline, signaling capital users to invest and build new production facilities, like iron ore mines, oil production, and higher level capital projects.

This is not the same thing as the government artificial printing money to lower interest rate because if consumers continue to consume, and capital users continue to consume the same basket of resources at the same time you ALWAYS get the boom, and then the bust.  This ALWAYS happens because sooner or later you run out of resources, not enough consumers, not enough capital producers, and when that day comes you get the bust.  Think housing bubble. 

You need the interaction of savers, capital users, consumers, interest rates, demand for money, and TIME to separate the different consumption patters for a successful, bubble free economy.

Sorry to say but this video is a example of the fairy tales that are passed on to people that are simply false and lead to massive economic blunders decade after decade.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:18 | 2127769 economics1996
economics1996's picture

The “Animal Spirits” argument is bull shit.

People are rational. 

Germany is correct.  Government needs to shrink.  Government should NEVER be more than 25% of the GDP.  The correct equation for GDP would be Y = C + I –G +lNXl not the current 1934 version which claims government is a equal contributor to the GDP.

When the economy is bad the government needs to spend LESS.  Government produces nothing.  Government takes resources from the productive sector of the economy and redistributes the recourses.  So if government does not produce anything, and causes economic injustice and inefficiency, why on God Earth would we want more government spending in a recession?

The “smoothing” transfer payments is a bull shit argument as well.

It may be socially desirable but taking money from Peter to pay Paul does nothing for GDP growth, it just makes politicians feel important and justified.

Real easy to prove that government spending is a negative, and when it is removed the economy improves.  Look at the US GDP 1944 to 1948, when government spending peaked out, and when it was removed.  When government spending was removed the economy exploded. 

Apparently the Germans are the only one that understands economics in the EU.

This video has so much Keynesian bull shit in it it makes me very disappointed in Tyler that he would waste space posting it.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 01:22 | 2127999 flacon
flacon's picture

Both of your comments are right on! 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 05:27 | 2128163 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

In 1958, to avoid SEC fines Fugger changed name to Fukker, and in 1978 Bardi and Fugger merged into a still secret bank that dominates illegal (shark loan) lending and is called Furdi or (South Italy and Sicily) Farti.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 13:23 | 2128715 Thingumbob
Thingumbob's picture

While you do show more acuity about the European history of banking than most, you should realize the the bankers themselves are merely the vehicle to implement a policy directed from above. Today the conglomerate known as the Inter Alpha group is the vehicle for the geopolitical policy centered in the City of London and onlty secondarily Wall Street. The policy is an inbred visceral hatred of the British Empire for sovereign nations pursuing industrial and agricultural progress and growth. That is precisely why the Queen's consort Prince Phillip heads the WWF and intones that he wants to be reincarnated as a deadly virus to rid the world of excess population. Hitler and the Fuggers were mere pikers by comparison...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 02:46 | 2128068 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

"everyone...seems to forget Keynes advocated ton save in good times

...it really is a 1/2 truth"

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Treatise on Money, 1931

"On my theory it is a large volume of saving which does not lead to a correspondingly large investment (not one which does) which is the root of the trouble."   later..."There is, indeed, no possibility of intelligent foresight designed to equate savings and investment..."

Keynes then goes on to argue the opposite in the General Theory:

Saving and investment are not only equal but "merely different aspects of the same thing."

"In the aggregate the excess of income over consumption which we call saving, cannot differ from the addition to capital equipment which we call investment...Saving, in fact, is a mere residual. The decisions to consume and the decisions to invest between them determine incomes."

The quote above illustrates Keynes backward looking causation.

"Saving is the act of the individual consumer and consists in the negative act of refraining from spending the whole of his current income on consumption."

 

He railed against personal saving, even giving one of his few listed "reasons for saving" as Miserliness.

For personal gain,  he attempted to develop a system by which consumption and "investment"

(defined as the positive act of spending "merely a different aspect of the same thing" savings(or new fiat))

could be justified by politicians, beyond what could be taxed with representation.

 

 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:36 | 2129087 GovtMediaLiars
GovtMediaLiars's picture

That's because it doesn't matter one whit what Keynes, or anyone else for that matter, said or says. 
It is, however, of the upmost importance to pay very close attention to what "Keynesians" actually DO, here in the real world.

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:46 | 2127483 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Indeed, isn't the "transfers" to "help" people a big part of the vote buying that caused the budget expansion which brings us to this point?  Its easy to give away other people's money, but ask them to pay for all the fun is political suicide. And national suicide. Did this guy never hear of Greece? How does one help them? Or all of Europe? Is there that much money on the world?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 00:09 | 2127874 Thomas
Thomas's picture

"That video is Keynesian propaganda." Copy-paste saved me keystrokes.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:18 | 2128221 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

ANY TING? FLACON (16:37)

LET ME TELL YOU SOME TING!

Are you Protestant?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 09:39 | 2128295 Fiatfan
Fiatfan's picture

"OWE NO MAN ANYTING." ~ THE CHRISTIAN BIBLE

Where is that quote located in The Christian Bible?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:33 | 2129079 dark_matter
dark_matter's picture

Romans 13:8 - Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:45 | 2127300 johnu1978
johnu1978's picture

Germany doesn't seek to control Greece only to liberate it from the international banking cartel.

 

-John
Support the Attack on Bank of America's Achille's Heel
http://www.piratemyfilm.com/projects/311

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 10:00 | 2128314 trilliontroll
Sun, 02/05/2012 - 06:01 | 2128178 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Really funny how the PIFGIS suddenly want solidarity and transfers from Germany. Where were the transfer from the booming PIFGIS from 1998-2005 when Germany was not doing well?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:30 | 2126931 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

OK ok so let me get this straight.. the governments of the World have been assuming private debt as public debt for the past 3-4 years so far so good, they are now broke because their total debts grew by about 20%-50%, the question no1 is asking is where did the Governments got the PREVIOUS 80% of their debts from?! And the answer is simple Socialism! For the past 3-4 Decades the governments have been growing their debt load almost exclusively(99% of it) to pay for social spending for the past 3-4 years ONLY they have been assuming private debt of the banks and corporations too. So this New Debt is only the Straw that broke the Camels Back not the actual load that is (Socialism), that did the sovereigns in!!! Eureka!

 

PS. If you take this further down this thinking path, you can even assign 50% of this new corporate and bank debt to the people too who wanted to live like millionaires on a Joe the Plumber wage, and the only mistake the banks made was to actually lend to those deadbeats who now protest austerity

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:11 | 2127131 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Governments have beenrunning their economies ob deficit-financing for decades - how do you think the US paid for Vietnam ?  How do you think Americans got away with being under-taxed the more they earned ? How do you think  Corporations got away with paying so little tax with wonders like an 1120 DISC Corporation ?  Why are Profits such as large share of GDP yet Corporations pay so little tax that Ordinary Workers pay so much ? Maybe Mitt Romney has the answer.

The fact is most Western countries are much much poorer than Consumers think and have been turned into Consumer-Rabbits being fattened up for slaughter. The whole gospel is Consumerism and that is not what the US was built on. It has been hi-jacked by interest groups that simply want to fleece Voters

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:56 | 2127222 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

"Why are Profits such as large share of GDP yet Corporations pay so little tax" - maybe because corporations don't get Free Healthcare, retirement benefits, child support, unemployment benefits, public schooling etc. I think corporations already pay more than their fair share for what they get in return, corporations should only ever be liable to their shareholders, customers and employees and be environment neutral, government should never come into play only the courts(if need be)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:03 | 2127232 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture

 

 

Pal you need to lay off the grass. 

Every community pays big time for a company to 'move in'  Every hear of tax credits. etc.The average community LOOSES money on the relocation of corporations to their communities.\

Check your position, it has more holes than Albert Hall.

BY THE WAY..I just googled PLUTOCRACY and Rand Paul comes up:

Rand Paul Explains His Support For Plutocracy: ‘There Are No Poor…We All Work For Rich People’

"Last night, Kentucky elected Rand Paul (R-KY), the son of Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), to the U.S. Senate. Speaking to CNN’s Wolf Blitzer, Paul announced his intention to do anything it takes to shield the privileged rich and corporate America. Asked if he would end the $830 billion, unpaid-for Bush tax cuts to the rich and return tax rates for the wealthiest bracket to Clinton-era levels, Paul snapped and said such a move would cause a “second great depression” and declared that “anybody who proposes such a policy really is, I think, unfit to be making decisions.”

What the heck is with this guy?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:49 | 2127303 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

They're all fucked up in their minds, 40 years of indoctrination must leave some damage to the brain and their way of thinking, and then add on top of it all those paid advisors shaping his mind every day.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:04 | 2127723 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The average community LOOSES money on the relocation of corporations to their communities.\

That must be why Detroit and Newark are so wealthy now that the corporations have fled those cities

 

You must really have blind faith if you think stealing money from the upper middle class to fund the police and welfare state will help anyone but the oligarchs

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:15 | 2127757 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Since you're apparently ignorant of it...

Asked if he would end the $830 billion, unpaid-for Bush tax cuts to the rich and return tax rates for the wealthiest bracket to Clinton-era levels, Paul snapped and said such a move would cause a “second great depression”

Is merely Rand Paul upholding a tenet of Austrian economics: taxes on the rich are counterproductive (destructive) for the entire economy. The minor premise is that the rich are the major drivers of job creation, capital investment, and of course spending. If you accept the minor premise, the argument is true for the simple reason that higher taxes translates to less wealth available for job creation and capital investment.

Rand Paul accepts the minor premise. The problem is that the new rich are drivers of labor misallocation/job destruction and capital misallocation/destruction, though it is still true that they account for the vast majority of private spending.

Much more importantly, the entire argument is a moot point. Instituting a 100% tax or a 0% tax on "the rich" would create absolutely no significant benefits for the rest of the country. In the best-case scenario we would be able to stop monetizing debt for all of a few months or so. In the worst case, the wealth is vaporized along with any incentive to become rich (this is in fact an observed phenomenon, when an additional $N in income will bump someone into the highest tax bracket, that person will often forego said additional income in order maintain a lower tax rate).

We are long, long past the point where tax revenue mattered vis government spending. The argument is a farcical and pathetic attempt at promoting class warfare, which, coming from ThinkProgress, is ... utterly unsurprising.

If they wish to argue about "unpaid-for" liabilities (of which there are anywhere from $61  to $119 trillion dollars' worth), why not start with the military, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, or anything else they would rather die than see cut by a single penny. $830 billion is a droplet compared to the ocean of entitlements that are the golden calf of braindead Neo-Marxist class warmongers.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:46 | 2129339 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

The $830 billion is over 10 years, not one. Basically, it would cut the annual deficit by 5% when the budget needs to be cut by 50%

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:09 | 2127239 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yeap. Fiat allows governments to finance welfare and warfare. So they do. Take fiat away.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:42 | 2127478 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

Actually Vietnam was paid for through inflation and don't forget that it was a Guns Vs Butter approach. The Great Society under Johnson was in full swing by 1968 when he decided not to serve a second term. look at US budgets . 1960 Defense was 50% of the budget and entitlements were less than 25%. Today they are reversed.  Cradle to grave socialism practiced by the western democracies is the root cause of our fiscal ills.  Politicians will act in there own self interest and after years of the New Deal, Great Society and Bush's compassionate socialism, we are at the logical end.  Too many people on the governemet teat expected something for little put in. 47 million on food stamps, 66 million on social security. a labor participation rate of 63.7% and the dems all to willing to know take more form the producers to give to those that take.

 

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 21:32 | 2127551 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

So here's a question for you. Could we have paid for Vietnam and the Great Society without the Federal Reserve?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:01 | 2127724 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

no

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:52 | 2126988 Floordawg
Floordawg's picture

"Europe has evolved from a democracy to a bankocracy"

A minor note, but I would suggest "Devolved." Are we not men? We are Devo!

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:01 | 2127725 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

EU was never a democracy. They were a bureacracy, run by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 07:28 | 2128225 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

right on , sun.

nice butt floss, too.

The bureaucratic take-over, the Brussels bouncers for the Franco-German banks, is

there for everybody to see, with the crisis. The crisis might even destroy the Union.

I hope so, because it's beginning to stink.

 

check Youtube for any talk by Nigel Farage.

He's called the German, I mean, Troika control of Greece as Naziism, which it is.

They're all trying to enforce the Protestant thing on us, even the French.

It shows you, you can take the religion out of the people, but not out of their mindsets.

Protestant mindsets are good for slaves.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 21:54 | 2127598 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

What a piece of shit video THAT turned out to be. No clue as to the real probelm, or the real solution (hint: there is none except default, you stupid Irish/English/whatever prick).

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:09 | 2127634 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

How Europe Has Evolved From A Democracy To A Bankocracy

And Why Austerity Will Lead To Chaos

 

first of all, could you please clarify what you mean by " Europe "? 

Does this include England and the financial centre of London? 

 

Europe has always been a "Bankocracy" the Banks or treasury has always been at the very base of

any political or economic power of any nation, and a nation starts to decline, when its Banks are Bankrupt.

No change there for anyone until this very moment of time in the history of this world.

Banks have always stood at the base of any Trades between Nations or Empires especially since the Holy Roman Empire,

and at least since the 15th century Renaissance when the Medici Family came to power with Cosimo de 'Medici and his sons who transformed not only the Holy Roman Empire that had lasted for a 1000 years, but also left their powerful imprint on the cultural and economic developement of the entire world.

As you know the Holy Roman Empire was very much the beginning of what we know today as "Europe".

even though "some opponents of Europe" would rather have a Europe divided than a Europe divided. ( No doubt:)

(Margaret Thatcher and David Cameron would love to rebuilt the Berlin Wall and "Iron Curtain" again)

secondly:

Anyone who has ever run a business or traded or lived on this planet beyond infancy knows full well, that you can not borrow money from your friends and trading-partners and receive goods and services without paying for them and if you borrow money, you will have to pay it back or else you will be put before justice and end up in Jail, on the Gallows or deported to the penal colonies in the Americas or even to Australia.

You can not just expect free money and never pay it back ! You can not just keep spending like before, if you or your trades have run out of money, because you will only get deeper into debt and in the end fall prey to Loan-sharks.

So that is where Austerity comes in. You spend a little less and save a little more and make do with the minimum,

and you try to pay down your Debts, from the little you have got left over.

Because if you keep on spending and getting deeper into Debt, you and your Family will be enslaved to the banks for generations, and to avoid being enslaved for all time to come,the only way out is Austerity or War against the Opressors

or loansharks, which will be just as harsh as Austerity, or worse.

 

Anyway, I don't agree with you there Tyler,

Austerity is the only way out of Debt and  anyone who ever had their own business would know that,

except for those public listed companies, that have been "bailed out" by their respective Governments

and central banks at great Peril to their financial and economic financial power, well being and even sovereignty.

So there Tyler, I thing you are talking bullshit !

A little Austerity does wonders,

but taking on ever more Debt and causing more and more currency devaluation (by QE) will only lead to inevitable financial ruin, war and finally bankruptsy and breakdown. All that is what we are witnessing presently.

Some is still to come in the near future.

Maybe it is time to try some moderation and for those Nations that are in Debt at over 100% of GDP,

maybe a little Austerity would be not such a bad thing, considering the alternative ?

but of course you know that Tyler, you are just trying to piss me off, because I am German and I love Angela Merkel,

because she is the only one left with any Integrity, while everyone else is waiting for free money and the next bailout.

but who is gonna pay ?

 The Germans ? The Chinese ? The Australians ? We are already paying through the Nose for

Fuel and Energy Prices sky high Interest Rates, huge Cost of Living Inflation (CPI)

so what more do you want us to pay ?

 

My Finances are in Order.

I make sure I dont spent more than I make and all my Debt is paid off.

How did I achive that? By cutting down my costs of living and all other expenses,

and changing my Lifestyle, to be more economic, a little more frugal a little more Austere.

From a greedy unhappy constipated consumer addict, wasting a lot and wanting always more,

I managed to change my Lifestyle around to doing  the things I like and living a Life that actually

makes me happy , without all the consumer-shit I never really needed or wanted to buy anyway.

What I am saying is:

Austerity is not such a bad thing, it can be actually a good thing.

Ask any Athlete or Sports - Champion, Artists that excelled like Rembrand, Mozart,

Salvadore Dali, Da Vinci, Michaelangelo, even the Medicis , all throughout history

these People were Ascetics and they used Austerity and amazing Discipline

to achieve what they accomplished.

So No Tyler, your argument does not stand, it has been proven to be false,

Austerity is a good thing, it can even be healthy,

most people are too fat anyway, and losing a few pounds wont hurt them.

If George Soros is so worried about too much Austerity in Europe,

he could always return the billions of GBP he stole from the Bank of England,

when he almost sent the whole british economy broke...

fucking dickhead George Sorros, give back the money you stole!

but I would'nt hold my breath....

Anyway, Not My Problem!

You work it out !

So fuck off, no really - I mean it:

go fuck yourselves you british imperial wankers !

wr;)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:30 | 2127645 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

SwineHella Merdekel is the only one left in the world with integrity? You love SwineHella Merdekel? Who the fuck are you? His sad pathetic husband? You teutonic imperialist swine. How about mentioning the role of the German Fugger banking mafia in the mess we have been living in for the past 500 years?

http://interactive.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/mill-1-timeline-fu...

 

Jakob Fugger II (1459-1525)

Fugger held the contract for managing the pope's money and collecting cash for the remission of sins, and he bankrolled Charles V's election as Holy Roman Emperor, which involved bribes of sums three times the annual revenue of Florence.

 

Seems to me you are defending the banking elite:

the only way out is Austerity or War against the Opressors

or loansharks, which will be just as harsh as Austerity, or worse.

This is total bullshit. War against the Opressors is the only way. Unless you like being a serf and want to have the boot stamped on your face forever.  

Your whole rant reeks of hipocrisy.  You want Greece to pay up on a debt IMPOSED upon them.  Yet, the burden placed upon the greek people is EVEN WORSE THAN THE 1919 TREATY OF VERSAILLES

 

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:41 | 2127686 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Ahmeexnal  

go fuck yourselve you little momo swine

jealousy is a curse,

go back under that rock you crawled out from

and keep on masturbating over the Union Jack !

while I will take All your money

and push you out of the EU !

who the fuck are you anyway,

you really sound and look like a idiotic  fucking cockroack,

don't waste my time, unless you want to pay me

for therapy and education sessions.

wr;)


Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:49 | 2127697 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Your mask has fallen off, you cryptorchidic fool.

 

while I will take All your money

and push you out of the EU !

We all know that was the plan.  But the world will side with the oppressed, not with the oppressors.

The days of the power elite are numbered.  The blade shall fall swiftly, and your mind will have 13 seconds of bliss, detached from your body.

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:59 | 2127722 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

But the world will side with the oppressed

well Ahmeexnal, that sounds like wishful thinking to me

and does not exactly reflect reality...

unless you live in Kuku-land..

you should get out more Ahmeexnal,

theres a real world out there !

beyond the Land of free handouts

and never-ending hopium...

you should open your eyes some time ,

unless you are afraid of reality ?

wr;)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:44 | 2127831 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

The days of the power elite are numbered and the blade shall fall swiftly...

well Ahmeexnal, that again sounds like wishful thinking to me

and again does not exactly reflect reality...

you see, the last time that happened in Europe was during

the french Revolution when they stormed the Bastille in Paris

on the morning of 14 July 1789.

The blade fell swiftly and through the ranks rose a certain Napoleon Bonaparte,

who soon invaded anyone and killed anyone who dared to protest or oppose him.

He came across the Rhein and forced young germans into military service and

introduced conscription and enslaved and killed those who opposed him.

Napoleon stole all the wealth and treasures from those he invaded and in return

imposed countless rules and heavy Taxes, there were even Window Taxes and countless Property Taxes,

while he also confiscated all the Property and Wealth of every town and Monastry he came across.

Gone was the spirit of the french Revolution

gone were the dreams of Equality, Freedom and Justice for all the oppressed and all the People !

 

On the 2nd December 1804 at Notre Dame de Paris Napoleon crowned himself Emperor Napoleon I

and then crowned Joséphine Empress. Napoleon was the biggest Oppressor Europe has ever known.

 

The days of the power elite had just begun and the blades fell swiftly alright !

They fell swiftly and cut deep into the heart of the french revolution itself,

killing the very promise of Equality, Freedom and Justice for all

cutting into the ravaged enslaved body and spirit of all the enslaved and Oppressed People.

The french revolution had failed, and a new Tyrant had fooled the World,

crowning himself Emperor.

and the days of the power elite had only just begun...

wr;)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 00:31 | 2127916 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Your nonsense shows how far down the slope the german people have come.

From being one of the great peoples of europe/world TPTB have diluted them to a bunch of rambling softies.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 01:23 | 2128004 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Big Duke : how far down the slope have the german people come ?

is that why they are hanging out for more free handouts from Germany

and some more trillion Euros of LTRO for the ESM, the EFSF IMF and ECB

with all the other ponzi-socialists waiting for a German handout to save you?

It's obvious, that you (the US / UK) can Not save themselves,

so you want Europe to pay up...

and when you say Europe, you really mean Germany,

because England or the UK is really the 51st state of

that bankrupt british colony of North America.

Goldman Sachs is a Hedgefund that bet heavily on a Greek default with CDS.

let them get the Haircut they deserved a long time ago,

right across their Vampire Vulture Neck.

When you say banks, you really mean Hedgefunds,

because they are going to be fucked if there is a disorderly default,

and I hope thet there will be.

As a german I will not pay one more Euro for

that failed UK/US economic model of MF-Global 40:1 leverage fame !

 

More Debt from more Debt, what shit is that ?

The US is bankrupt as is the UK.

on the other side of the coin:

China and Germany and Australia, Russia and the Middle East

are the only ones making any money and have any business left.

 

All the US has is an overprized Apple

and a failed banking system propt up by the Fed

all the UK has left is the financial ponzi scheme they call theLondon mile

and hopium for the upcoming Olympics that will pile on even more UK Debt

so who are the great People of Europe ?

Do you think Germans really give a fuck ?

not our problem, all that shit started in the US

so let them fix it.

wr;)


 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 07:39 | 2128228 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

I have a maxim for you, Weisse man.

I think German citizens should work hard, consume, fist their wives and die.

They really should not get on ZH and tell us about Cosimo De Medici and the ROman

Empire.

Germans are a pure product of the Protestant view of life. There's not much separating

Germans from the ENglish or the Americans right now as far as political economics is concerned.

Their oligarchs all think that we should pay for the mistakes of their banks.

Sorry, Weiss man. All your efforts are wasted.

Life doesn't work that way.

Luckily, we no longer go to war for such things.

Now we have the EU, so that we can go on in eternity, bickering like gentlemen.

Good day

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:11 | 2128239 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

I have a maxim for you fiddy pence :

go fuck yourself !

wr;)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:21 | 2128246 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

NICE.

YOU'LL GET TIRED of this soon.

everybody else is, already.

 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:33 | 2128252 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

I will give Germans some credit.

 

As you seem to show, Germans are probably the only nation that believes

its own government's bullshit about lazy them, and holy us. (you're being manipulated)

All your theories are designed to explain that world view. That's why it's hard

to make sense of them.

 

Your government is corrupt and is controlled by your corrupt, bankrupt banks

who would rather destroy the Union than admit guilt.

There's that religion thing again.

have a nice day.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:54 | 2129575 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

fiddy pence, for the benefit of your education: quite the contrary !

the German government has actually tried to keep the European Central Bank (ECB) independent

 

EU Law actually prohibits the European Central Bank (ECB) from getting involved in political and sovereign Government fiscal policy which means :

No buying sovereign Government Bonds from any debt ridden Eurozone Countries,(including Greece)

no political involvement by the European Central Bank (ECB)

in any of the EURO-Zones sovereign fiscal policies

and No free Hand-outs or bail-outs by the European Central Bank (ECB).

The ECB is actually not allowed by EU Law to interfere in EU Countries sovereign

Government economic policy.

Now the IMF (what actually happened to DSK?) and Tim Geitner

has done anything and everything to try and infiltrate the ECB and install Goldman Sachs Stooges

like that Idiot GS-Monti to undermine the European Central Bank (ECB) and to undermine the EU strong mandate

for the the European Central Bank (ECB) independence. Why does Tim Geitner spent so much time lobbying Berlin?

Christine Lagarde, who by the way is jewish, replaced Dominique Strauss-Kahn (obviously DSK did not comply

with US policy) and Mario Monti of "former" and most probably "present" Goldman Sachs complicity became head of

the  European Central Bank (ECB) Bravo Tim Geitner !

Well, at least that Idiot David Cameron lend him an ear, to try his best (or worst) to fuck up  and undermine or corrupt the  European Central Bank (ECB)  mandate to remain independent.

Institutions like the IMF, the EFSF and now the ESM are there to keep the Economy "stable" if that is at all still possible with all the US/UK interference, and taking care of bailouts and Debt payouts and Loans to sovereign nations and Governments is NOT ,was Never the mandate of the European Central Bank (ECB) !

European Union laws and agreements forbids such an over-reach or breach of the  European Central Bank ECB's mandate !

Thats what the European Financial Stability Fund and the European Stability Mechanism (ESM)

were created for:  to keep the European Central Bank (ECB) completely independent of any Government.

Obama, Tim Geitner and Christine Lagarde and now Mario Monti are all complicit in trying to undermine the European Central Bank (ECB's) mandate of fierce independence, and make it more or exactly like the US FED Bernanke's led US Federal reserve Central Bank,and thereby bugger their Neighbours, in their case : The whole fucking World!

The US FED Central Bank has a 2 mandates:

1) to keep fiscal stability via the manipulation of Interest rates,Debt Auctions ZIRP,TWIST,

2)  to promote Jobs Growth and economic growth by buying its own bonds (POMO) TWIST,even even actively taking over and bailing out companies that are TBTF or Trainwrecks like Lehmann or AIG and lately again MF-Global etc...

Now the European Union agreement forbids the European Central Bank (ECB) from getting politically directly involved in the political and Government handling of fiscal economic policy,like QE or Bail-outs or devaluing its currency by increasing the Money supply as the US does. Keep in mind that the USD is actually the benchmark Reserve Currency for the entire world, or at least that's what it was meant to be !

But Bernank and Tim Geitner and Obama have been trying to do this one thing:

Keep the Exchange-Rate of the USD at rock-bottom versus all other currencies to make it easier to export and underbid every country,especially Germany while keeping the Euro proped up so the chinese dont buy too much german Products and more US exports.

However this is not working, except for Apple Computers which have gotten a bit cheaper all around the world.

But when it comes to Cars or manufacturing, the US is falling behind.

What would you rather drive as a nouveau - riche Chinese:

A Mercedes, BMW, Porsche , Ferrari, lamborghini, Toyota, or a Ford ?

anyway fiddy pence,

this is no longer a matter of wether I am German

or Russian, or Chinese or (God forbid) American.

This has gone way beyond any nationality, race, creed or religion.

This is ALL about POWER.

Political and Economic POWER

Thats all.

and by the way, I am a roman catholic

as most of southern Germans still are last time I checked,

but I don't really see where religion or your "guilt" comes in on all of this.

you can't just stick Labels on me, or entire countries fiddy pence,

If you wanna figure ou this world, you got to travel a bit,

learn another language, learn about another culture

look at people, talk to people, live with people,

know their fears, hopes and dreams,

(don't just invade other countries and try to create the world according to some pre-concieved Idea

to instill some concept of your limited understanding or the outmoded Imperial british colonial system

on those other cultures and nations who have survived and been the basis of knowledge for millenia )

Perhaps then you maybe realize what this is all about.

It is about the Elite trying to rule the masses by

creating division and confusion, to keep ruling

and enslaving the dividet.

This is not about me German Roman Catholic

and you American, protestant, muslim or jewish.

It is not about that at all.

This is all about the Power and the Money !

It is all about fear of death and fuck everyone else,

as long as we are o.k. Jack or whatever your name might be.

so think, fiddy pence think !

besides that, I don't really give a fuck,

ws;)

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 07:11 | 2145070 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

Well, if Germany keeps its constitution which says it cannot allow the ECB to print money, then good.

Otherwise, you and me have to quit thinking about power and start thinking about

how to survive.

The powerful will do what they do, without worrying about who dies of starvation.

The problem is the fact that we've mostly left the land and gone to the city to earn paper money

and that makes us vulnerable to monetary policy and financial shenanigans.

The people who are losing in this game have to withdraw and go back to the land, or die.

There should be more discussion of how to NOT be a victim of this system, because it's not going

away soon.

By the way, the only reason that the Greek economy is suffering now, that pensioners and minimum-wage

workers are starving is that the German government needs to show Greek suffering, in order to convince

the German people to fund Greece and in that way, fund their own bankrupt banks, like Douchebank.

Just follow the money.

Fri, 02/10/2012 - 20:56 | 2148267 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Good to see this banter continuing.

Rose - you do give a fuck, so dont pretend.

the germans have big egos like their women have big tits.

in my youth in a campsite in france the brits and the germans got together because they drank the most beer, while the rest of the campsite looked on.

i think it is good that the germans want to balance the books and see GOldman take a haircut....

seig heil

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:54 | 2126831 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Kingdom of Heaven (2005)    (<=good movie 02:24:24)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320661/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320661/quotes
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0320661/plotsummary

Kingdom of Heaven Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oO6pCRe3pM (2:39)

@0:54:57,
Sybilla: I was watching you today. You’ve been given a patch of dirt, and it seems... you will build a new Jerusalem here.
Balian of Ibelin: It is my land. Who would I be if I did not try to make it better?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 21:30 | 2127548 Manchu9Inf
Manchu9Inf's picture

Kingdom of Heaven was not a good movie, and was hardly historically accurate!  The Templars were not the murdous band of knights as portrayed in the movie.  More liberal hollywood drivel.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:06 | 2127620 Goldilocks
Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:48 | 2129111 falak pema
falak pema's picture

..GO suck a bug...

I wonder that that means. Fascinating.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 07:08 | 2128213 falak pema
falak pema's picture

You should read this if you think that Kingdom of Heaven was too hard on Templars. I really pull out the plugs on those who sang "god wills it" and "we will clean out the Holy land". Ethnic cleansers later turned into WS type banker shills who got their come uppance in 1307; by those who had annointed them as "soldier-monks", the Pope and King!

Templars are the precursors of ethnic cleansers in western civilization. So read this :

http://www.falakpema.com/buythebook.html

If you want to rant more on this theme! 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:38 | 2128254 RECISION
RECISION's picture

The Templars were not the murdous band of knights as portrayed in the movie.

 Well, for sure a movie takes some artistic license with chronology or characters etc...

But no, they pretty much were a bunch of murderous thugs.

From the Baltic to the Med, they cleared and converted with the sword.

For the glory of god of course... (that makes it all right)

And lands and loot - it's good to be RICH.

 

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 02:53 | 2129940 foofoojin
foofoojin's picture

WOW WOW WOW! You Found some primary documents concerning the Templars?  LINK PLEASE! I had an easier time hunting down who got paid what with the Luissiana Purchase then Primary Documents concerning the templars. do share.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:57 | 2126839 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

What Europe needs is coup d'états to take back their country from the banks coup d'états.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:19 | 2126907 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

coup de grâce ?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:40 | 2126964 falak pema
falak pema's picture

that's awesome and two handled...

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:02 | 2127004 SilverIsKing
SilverIsKing's picture

Did you mean to say that Europe should take back their country?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:33 | 2127061 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Of course. I think the only ones that can do the job the faster while spilling the less blood is the military.

1. Deploy the military in the capital and around ``Wall Street``.

2. Send cops squads to arrest bankers at their homes. Treat them like you treat drug dealers. If they resist or their bodyguard tries to protect them, SHOOT THEM LIKE MAD DOGS.

3. Put the big banks into bankruptcy.

4. Defaults on the debt.

5. New election.

6. Problem solved.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 00:28 | 2127908 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Gee Whiz... I go away for a few hours & when I come back I find that EUROPE is a COUNTRY...

Anything else happen while I was gone?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:58 | 2126850 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Why waste time with all this?  The banks control the governments (for now).  Wake me up when the supply lines start getting cut.  Then shit gets real and maybe, just maybe, people start being honest about risk, who really benefitted from it, and the real cost of creating captial without adding any real value.  History rythmes, for damn sure.  Hedge accordingly.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:58 | 2126851 agent default
agent default's picture

Austerity will lead to revolution and the breakup of the EU.  Good riddance.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:50 | 2126984 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Austerity DOES, in fact, lead to chaos...

I have been behaving rather 'austere' for the past few months... Finally, it got the better of me last week & I went to a strip club and blew over $500 on drinks & a couple of champagne room dances... I don't remember driving home...

I'm LUCKY to be telling this story...

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:25 | 2127052 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

EXACTLY! "free market capitalism truly at work here people!" everything else is a slogan! in other words "in order to have true free market capitalism we must have people both capable of telling the truth AND WHO IN FACT DO TELL THE TRUTH." By this simple measure "the system must collapse" since...and as well all now know from MF Global "property rights are non-existent when people are incapable of both truth and truth telling"...the "current iteration doensn't have that much longer to live." I've been forced to push back the "true day of the Apocalypse" ("you mean i have to tell the truth when i raise that right hand? PHUCK THAT!") due to what i call "the Madoff Effect." Namely "i didn't know you could Ponzi that big for that long!" Still! We are at the "There's Something About (Greece)" moment...it has all the makings (going on forever, claims of solutions, solutions never come, name calling, "okay fine, i'll sleep with you") of "an actual ending." Still..."it ain't over 'till its over"...(we can only hope of course.) and of course "if this sounds ridiculous just remember equities, treasuries, commodities (and egos) are all moving up here."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ck1N1I-LzWc
and now..."its your turn to make sense of it all" because that's how we play around here.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 14:59 | 2126853 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Asseertion of hegemony rarely comes to help the dominated.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:00 | 2126854 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

We face the same situation in the U.S., and the bailouts proved our State representatives wanted a Bankocracy versus Democracy.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:00 | 2126855 Wolferl
Wolferl's picture

McWiliams is a stupid nationalistic moron. On the the one hand he blames France and Germany for all the bad luck of Ireland. On the other hand he is strongly opposed to any regulation and a proper taxation of big international banks and corperations in Ireland to get them there.  

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:08 | 2126879 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Proper taxation? No such thing.

End the Fed. End the State.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:13 | 2126892 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Like most eCONomists, he never addresses the issue of energy.  Forgive all the debt you want, welcome to a world without growth or the ability to continue to exponentially expand the flux of energy (which is required for growth).  Add to that shortages of numerous elements in the proper oxidation states to sustain growth.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.  People really do not understand exponential equations and what that implies (in numerous areas) for growth.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:32 | 2126933 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Some suggested better phrasing:

Economics rejects the concept that demand can differ from consumption.  In the world of economics, if there is demand, price will rise, more product will be produced to capture that price rise, and that increased demand is consumed.  Consumption must always equal demand.  In the world of economics, there is no point in having two different words for the same thing.

Where it all falls apart is when that is not true.  When demand for oil CANNOT be met, at ANY price, the world of economics falls apart.  When demand exceeds consumption, regardless of price, things get ugly.

It's happening now.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:22 | 2127035 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"It's happening now."

-------------------------------

 

Depends where you are.  My point is that there are going to be a lot of other things that will become problems before Oil is a real problem.  Oil is just going to get expensive for everyone using fiat to purchase it.  The lack of understanding exponential equations is apparent in the junks I am getting in one post, but then the agreement in another that says basically the same thing.  Paper-pushers can fuck themselves, know the value of your labor?  Got Physical?  You fucking better.  Junk away morons, how many dollars to fill those tanks now, compared to say even 2005?  To steal a phrase from another ZHer - bloody pods.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 21:39 | 2127571 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Do you think a society that uses gold as money needs exponential growth?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:48 | 2126979 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

He falls to easily for the trappings of The Paradox of Thrift fallacy.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:01 | 2126860 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Seeing this hand writing on a board made me think... did Christianity made the left hand ``bad`` (right side of God, writing with the left hand is forbidden, wipe yourself with the left hand, left hand is dirty...) because the muslims were writing from left to right forcing them to write with the left hand?

Or am I just making stuff up in my insane mind with bunny ears?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:02 | 2126862 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Catholicism, Max Weber, Marx... a little something for everyone. Wheeew!

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:19 | 2126906 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Not one mention of Goldman Sachs. Not one mention of Iceland.

Seems to me that this guy wants a EU superstate.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:22 | 2126915 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I got that feeling too.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:22 | 2126913 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Being of the Catholic persuasion , I'm all for the debt forgiveness. Let the bankers feel some pain for their crazy lending policies.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:47 | 2126926 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

It's amazing how fast the ponzi effect erases all rationality!  May I inject some rationality? Good luck Europea' .

Update: Europes kleptocratic " Garden Gnomes" , are going to fix Greece in a few hours. /sarc

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:27 | 2126930 The Beam
The Beam's picture

I like Punk Economics. It has somethings I could disagree with slightly... but on the right course.

It is basically what the people of Zero Hedge have been saying. The way to get a strong economy isn't by taxing people to death, but by getting production out of them and increasing your GDP.

We all know the vast majority of the debt that is pushed on the people is NOT their debt, but that of the banks. ... the debt the governments took over because HEAVEN FORBID a bank fails.

I would like to hear actual places of disagreement. My actual place of disagreement is that German doesn't want to include France in on it. German put up with France only because of the AAA rating. Now, if German could saddle the French with the majority of the bailing out, but reap most of the benefits.... does anybody in their right mind thing Germany wouldn't do it?

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:38 | 2127189 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

framing this arguement nationallisticly is false.  It should remain in the context of borrower/lender and its only by accident that the german nation has a higher degree of productivity and savings that they can be the lender.  The mistake is that even the germans may have lent immaginary fiat credits that are not supported suffiently by reserves and this is where the suggestiion of lender responsibility is correct.  The lenders and not the taxpayers should take the hit.  Banks defaulting a problem??  The laws and regulators should have beeen in place to prevent over lending and poor due dillegence by lenders loanding money to dead beats.

Taxing people to death is not going to solve anything and will likely further destroy the economy, this part I agree with.  Buuuutt............Those spared the finnancial destruction, lets call them the smart money or survivors can move in afterwards and bayonet the wounded and strip the bodies.  Maybe call them carpet baggers.   Any similar historical finnancial event(s) has this bargain hunting aspect occuring after the collapse.  This is also where the nationalistic slant of the presentation is wrong as there wiill be few ordinary germans or french coming down to greece to pick up a bargain.   Furthermore at the same time as saying don't kill people with taxation the entitlement spigot has to be turned off and other market distorting laws so that the market can set the price for goods and services.   An example of this is the outrageous cost of dental work in my country because the insurance policies of those with dental insurance don't argue the costs, where someone like my self is better off flying to another country and becoming dental tourist.   The government borrowed because there are too many entitlement programs and big government generally.   Easy credit drives speculative bubbles.   Prudence and frugality use to be virtues but when people and governments can borrow and spend unrestrained sums, wisdom has been pushed under the bus. 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 07:25 | 2128224 mind_imminst
mind_imminst's picture

Some, maybe most of the debt is bank debt, but decades of cushy social programs, astonomical minimum wages, and even government laundry service (in France anyway) which could not be supported by national GDP's also led to unsustainable debts, and the people supported it all the way. What is needed is some financial/math education. Banks should take a hit, but the people have got to understand the consequences. They have to take a hard look at how much value they produce and how much government (or social programs) their output can support.

What I am afraid will happen is that the turmoil will lead to referenda and the people will be convinced to print money. They will vote in hyperinflation. When they try to force the banks to take a hit (which would lead to bankrupcies of most of the large international banks), the banks and the FED and the technocrats will do what they always do - say it will be the end of the world. Then they will suggest more austerity, which the people will reject. Then they will all hail the Keynsian god and money printing will commence. I suppose Germany might put up a small fight to reject printing, but most of Europe will vote for it. The Germans will get sucked into the black hole of hyperinflation again.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:36 | 2128234 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

ok, ok  (mindimminst 6:25)

some governments waste too much money on champagne,

but I think you're right about the astronomical minimum wage.

that'll bankrupt any country. Can't let the poor get their heads above water.

 

It's like the joke by Chris Rock:

Boss says to employee: that's the minimum wage. I'd pay you less, but it would be illegal.

 

you can't say that people are to blame for wanting universal health care, education and a pension.

What the fuck are we? slaves?

If governments spend too much, there's nothing you or I can do about it. That's the vote-buying

democracy at work.

 

A society is a complex web of co-operation, and that's broken when the rich want

to soak the poor, which is the tendency of the rich. Look at the last 200 years of history.

Laws are created, from time to time, to protect us from our overlords, because when

the slavery gets too much, all kinds of shit breaks out.

Unfortunately, those who kiss rich butt have short memories, and no bookshelves.

And you trot out the Keynse= Devil equation, and you think you've done your day's work.

The socialist, autocratic Keynesianism thing is not called COmmunism anymore.

It's being used by the right wing now to pay for the rich's lifestyle.

Any talk of the lazy people living off the Germans is just more of the same bullshit.

open your eyes, betch

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:33 | 2126946 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

OT: Struggling spanish homeowners who bought on the top will be delighted. Economy minister De Guindos promises that his "reforms" WILL BRING HOUSE PRICES DOWN. Lol!

http://www.elpais.com/articulo/english/Reforms/will/lead/to/lower/house/...

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:45 | 2127203 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

LOL! Yeah, well house prices probably will come down! If he can claim some credit for it because of his "reforms"; what a clever Politician!

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:44 | 2126970 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

none of this will end until oil production falls dramatically and puts globalization into the shitter

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:50 | 2126986 Zola
Zola's picture

basically he says the government should pay more...we need more government, more spending !! Blablabla... YOu only need default , clenses the banks and cut  govt spending and taxes... He should read ZH more...

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:52 | 2126989 Timmay
Timmay's picture

This really isn't hard, blow it all up and start over. Everyone goes back to Zero.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:35 | 2127067 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I agree, the time has long passed since we could have actually prosecuted the fucking fraud.  Back to zero with only the value of your labor and physical assets you and your employees can defend.  Fucking bring it.  It will happen anyway MINA grows more volitile by the day, then Euroland and the rest of the western world follows.  New Zealand looks better every day and they are happy to accept PMs for land and citizenship.  Already looked into it.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:54 | 2127380 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I knew you had it in you.! Nice post! +1

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:09 | 2128236 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

yup, timmay (14:52)

you heard of the book, Debt, the first 5000 years (the author was on Keiser, I think)?

jubilee is what happened regularly.

I think it's written in the Talmud. every seven years, the books are wiped clean, because

they saw that the downside, austerity, brought on some crazy shit like revolt, refusal to work, and

so on. So, the rich lenders lost some money. they're loaded anyway. they need bodies to do their bidding.

 

We haven't tried that refusal to work thing yet. Regular strikes will do fine.

 

This is the first time that the money men are trying to change the course of human

history by refusing to allow for a debt jubilee. We'll see soon what the answer 

will be to that.

Speaking of debt breaks, that's what Germany got after WW2, and they STILL owe money

for all the theft they committed across Europe. In fact, Germany owes more money to

Greece than vice versa.

La croix newspaper has a story by Richl, a historian , about that. So, Germany has to get off its

high horse.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 15:55 | 2126992 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Life, especially politics, is a relative game : Looking at the distorted Euro prism, as First world goes into self destruct spiral, is a partial picture; the nexus is in DC/WS, the heart of current Empire. Ripple effects and nipple defects, don't lead us to where the heart beats, white oligarchical hunter- black heart.

Don't wait for the meltdown to start, prepare before in mind and heart; as an avalanche leaves you no time to react; ask the Greeks, tomorrow all those others who think Ipads and Iphones are the icons of civilization, in Spain and Italy. We are in tsunami mode once the can kicking peters out or Armageddon starts to point its sinister nose. 

Today the fight in first world is those who defend the real economy against those who pump the ponzi bubble. Cause and effect. Where does the ripple start is the meat of the question. Who sets the tone and who is in reactive mode. Follow that trail along the money line and you'll find the truth, what little there is.

THOSE WHO DEFEND BUBBLE ECONOMICS ARE THE ENEMIES OF THE PEOPLE, NOT THOSE WHO TRY AND REDRESS THE REAL ECONOMY. If Euro zone is controlled by the Oligarchs of Anglo construct it is doomed. Like the Empire. 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:28 | 2127060 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"as long as Europe collapses first." Other than that i totally agree.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:28 | 2127273 falak pema
falak pema's picture

like that Costa Concordia captain. 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:04 | 2127010 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i'm just trolololling for gold and silver currencies in more states, BiCheZ!

States seek currencies made of silver and gold | Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee

carry on!

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:10 | 2127635 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Welcome back to SHITSVILLE! I think the world of you, Slewie!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 00:35 | 2127920 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Indeed. And we love you too YC.

U r the glue that binds us together.

Never forget.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:07 | 2127016 non_anon
non_anon's picture

pretty good, except it seemed to imply that gov spending can take up where private spending decreases

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:08 | 2127019 resurger
resurger's picture

Nice post

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:20 | 2127037 W10321303
W10321303's picture

If you read or have read the 'Arms of Krupp' then you know what the ultimate outcome of Corporate Syndicalism or 'monopulation' or psychopathic economics is. The real question is who has the greatest capcity to create the 'ultimate' demagogue. Is it Germany? Does Germany have zombie robot TV and radio stars who get mi$$ions to rant vial lies and hatred on a daily basis? Is it Germany that has millions of avid devoted watchers and listeners who 'lap up' the poison, like Pavlov's Dogs? Anyway, when you have time I recommend the latest issue of Rolling Stone and the description of America's favorite corporatist ZOMBIES.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:38 | 2127190 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

We'll have state-sponsored and protected monopolies here soon. And when that's not enough wage, price and capital controls. Finally we'll all sleep in company housing and shop at company stores. 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:44 | 2127084 Alcuin Bramerton
Alcuin Bramerton's picture

The board changes. The Great Game moves against the Feds.

http://is.gd/Z2YQ1T

http://is.gd/9KemeE

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:49 | 2127487 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

How to Train Your Dragon (2010)   (98 min)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0892769/

How to Train Your Dragon Official Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUhygdAZIw (2:31)

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 16:47 | 2127087 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Greece shouldn't accept the German deal otherwise this is what they gonna have :

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120203-40531.html

Bestiality brothels spur call for animal sex ban
Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:06 | 2127117 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Good Lord. I half expected to see an "April fools" on the bottom of that article.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:18 | 2127146 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

People are weird. Especially when it comes to sex. And if they are German.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:54 | 2127217 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

"And if they are German". You have led a very sheltered life; and done very little reading; which may be just as well. Your parochial conclusion is absurd.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:00 | 2127229 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Dude. That was sarcasm. Chill out.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 09:00 | 2128264 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

cannibalism anyone?

Oh, that's what Germany's doing to Greece.

I think they're enjoying it a bit too much.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:08 | 2127122 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Wankocracy.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:25 | 2127159 RECISION
RECISION's picture

lets just go straight to - BANKRUPTCY

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:35 | 2127185 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Klepto-Wankocracy.....woooo

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:14 | 2127138 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Here kitty kitty

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:39 | 2127176 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Anthem of the Global Bankokracy

-by CE (Excuses to Tammy Wynette)

 

Sometimes its hard to be a citizen
Giving all your love to the bank
You'll have bad times
And it'll have good times
Doing things that you don't understand
But if you love it you'll forgive it
Even though it's hard to understand
And if you love it
Oh be proud of it
'Cause after all it's just a Bank


Stand by your BANK!

Stand by your BANK!

Keep on giving all that you can!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:42 | 2128255 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

\m/ \m/

you rock, son

 

 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 17:36 | 2127187 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

I don't recall bailing out Boston.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:04 | 2127234 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Another good Farage rant but this time they pulled the plug on him: http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20120202-40495.html

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:09 | 2127242 oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

"Our view remains that austerity works if countries manage to cut expenses while keeping a balance. Alas, the balance is out of skew due to 30 years of runaway full-Keynesianism, which leads indeed to the problems that McWilliams so well espouses."

 

The word "if" does not limit outcomes, it expands them to infinity.  You just make a stupid statement then add an "if".

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 18:57 | 2127316 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

If governments stop spending, the parasite economy will collapse.

The real economy collapsed after 9/11, and hasn't been heard from since.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:11 | 2127332 RiotActing
RiotActing's picture

How is this any different for us here in the US? The fucking joke of the whole thing is we are way more in debt than the Europe is...

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:21 | 2127341 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

Entertaining video, but Dave conveniently omits that there just ain't such thing as a free lunch.  Never has, never will.

You want less austerity and greater transfer payments to countries in dire straits?  Sure thing, buddy.  It'll only cost you your sovereignty.  That was the price the colonies paid when forming good ole U.S. of A. (aftger a few iterations) so that they could benefit in times like the cited Boston example.

Germans would have to be blithering idiots to fund reckless, profligate regimes without a 'hard' fiscal union.  Absent such a union, just get on with it and default.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 22:33 | 2127668 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Your opinion: "Not worth a Continental" (look it up...it'll do you some good)

Germans DO fund "reckless, profligate regimes"...like Deutsche Bank.

Who is more profligate...the fool...or the fool that lends to him?


Sun, 02/05/2012 - 00:27 | 2127909 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

My opinion:  the fool who borrows irresponsibly is, by definition, more profligate.  Perhaps I'm from a different era, but I still subscribe to the notion that people and their governments should be held accountable for their decisions and actions.

Entities like Deutsche Bank are just enterprising crack dealers providing supply to meet demand.  The root cause isn't the crack dealer - it's the oblivious, lazy, Greek fuck on the street who believes in an inalienable right to work 25 years at above-market wages + benefits before retiring on the Government's teet.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 08:55 | 2128261 fiddy pence haf...
fiddy pence haff pound's picture

Excursionist,

Why is the borrower the fool?

Everybody knows where free money comes from. It comes from the guy who lends and then

forgets to ask for it back, or otherwise cannot collect.

 

When you call Greeks lazy, overpaid fucks, are you assuming that the Greek worker

sets his own wage? In fact, every Greek is trained in Economics and sets his own wage

and believes that it is fair. @sarc.

It's actually supply and demand , as you argue, against yourself.

 

I wonder if you're gonna go to the Hague for Obama's and Bush's war crimes. WHat do you

mean the 'people should be held accountable'?

Just because you can type on a computer , you think that you control your fate?

and your government's behaviour?

wake up

Douche-bank and all the big banks are creating money on a computer screen, and are allowed

to do so by corrupt governments who don't care about Economic reality. So, pay up, buddy.

"enterprising" bubble merchants. ass.

pay for the shadow banking market. it's only 500 trillion dollars worth.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 15:07 | 2129030 Excursionist
Excursionist's picture

Since you asked for clarification on people being held accountable:  if a populace opts to live beyond its means for decades, then one way or another, said population will have to eventually pay the bill.  This comes from debt slavery or a drastic reduction in purchasing power.  Both outcomes lead to the same place - imploded living standards.  Crying to rich Aunt Angie in Berlin is an attempt to avoid accountability and only delays the bill's due date.

I categorically reject two notions you and your ilk attempt to propagate:

  1. A populace is not in control of its fortunes and is victimized by 'elites'.  The ONLY way this currently happens in the U.S. and euro-zone is by the general populace allowing it to happen.  How?  By remaining tuned out and for the most part ignorant of the needle-moving issues impacting their lives.  Joe and Jane Sixpack would rather come home from work and watch the latest about Kim Kardashian's divorce than reading up on how their miscreant Representative is voting in Congress.  So you know what?  Fuck Joe and fuck Jane.  They deserve whatever Matrix-like existence they lead (there's that inconvenient concept of accountability again).
  2. If seemingly 'free money' is available, then people should get theirs while they can.  Where to begin with this?  For starters, there's no such thing as free money.  There's always a reckoning.  Also, this philosophy is akin to that of animals (i.e., there's no tomorrow, so let me get mine today).  I piss on this.  If you really believe this, then you'd excel in a subsidized housing project somewhere in Compton.  Good luck to you.
Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:22 | 2127344 svendthrift
svendthrift's picture

I sincerely hope that far-far-far-far right governments are the ultimate consequence of this.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:10 | 2127745 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

Zeig Heil!

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:30 | 2127347 Reptil
Reptil's picture

I'm missing here how the debt will be solved. Yes, he mentions austerity as opposed to bank defaults. It's indeed going to be default (the banks creating "wealth" in the form of risky debt loans, that they KNEW woulld never settled because the borrowing governments were corrupt and now INSOLVENT, or, and this is NOT mentioned; INFLATION (masked as austerity) for the taxpayers of ALL european nations (the old printing press). Believe it or not, that idea of PRINT TILL YOU DROP is now proposed as the least painful measure here in the Netherlands. (how about shooting yourself in the face with a euro shotgun?)
The "german" issue is not correct: it's not the german people that are behind this idea, to keep Greece (and the other PIGGS) on a leash..

That leverage in a bear market can work opposite of wealth creation that too is not explained or mentioned: The FACT that none of the debt can, realistically, be paid back, austerity or not. Of course he's right that austerity on a country's economy and thus people (workforce) is like taking the shovel from someone who's dug a hole for himself. More debt is digging a deeper hole. Instead this video proposes MORE debt, without settlement as a solution. Despite the earlier mention of DEFAULT.
FAIL

The only solution that does not change the wealth of the participants (by confusing liabillity between private banks and public government accounts) inside the system, is to have the BANKS THAT LEND IN THE FIRST PLACE DEFAULT.

But something so obvious as what happened in Ireland, is bound to remain invisible for an irish economist. Instead.... blame the germans (and not the english... noo never the english...)

 

meh

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:29 | 2127349 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

The video is contradicting with its solution.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:34 | 2127355 Reptil
Reptil's picture

EXACTLY
he proposes more debt more spending to get out of the austerity trap. Despite the mention of default at the beginning of the video this is never further worked out or presented as the solution it so obviously is.

In fact he then goes on that a greek default can cause a domino effect. ... ...well duh.. if you default it must be a clean sweep across the board, otherwise it's moving water (or piss) from one leaky bucket to another.

fail.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:37 | 2127360 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

yep, total fail.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:37 | 2127359 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Just came back from 2 month visit in Europe, all is well and booming!

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:38 | 2127361 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

lol

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:48 | 2127372 Reptil
Reptil's picture

And that is the beauty of this scam.

I'm in the Netherlands, and despite that everyone's almost used up their last savings and christmas bonus to continue their lavish lifestyle, it looks like a booming economy.
Actually... it is.

But it is already being siphoned off, the slow drain of wealth in the form of a currency that brought so much ease to trade has been CAPTURED by the bureaucrats and their bank masters. Incompetent professional politicians, specialised in elboing their way up in a bull market are now being replaced by technocrats since these can fill out the banker's orders with much greater efficiency. The descisions to do so are always taken in a time when the effects of these descisions are not directly in effect YET. By seperation in time most are fooled into thinking cause and effect are seperate.

EUROPE HAS BEEN DECAPITATED. THE HEAD THAT WAS DEMOCRATIC CHECKS AND BALANCES HAS BEEN REPLACED BY AN IMAGE OF LIABILLITY. WE HAVE BEEN SABOTAGED !

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:47 | 2127369 nicxios
nicxios's picture

http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1708/174/Read_Between_The_Lines:_Hollywood_Mogul_Buys_2,600_Acres_Of_Farmland;_Moving_To_New_Zealand.html

 

<quote>"James Cameron, the Hollywood producer responsible for blockbuster films like Terminator, Titanic and Avatar, is reportedly preparing to exit stage left. Cameron has successfully applied to buy 1,067 hectares (2,636 acres) of farmland in New Zealand. In an application filed with the New Zealand Overseas Investment Office, Cameron says he and his family “intend to reside indefinitely in New Zealand and are acquiring the property to reside on and operate as a working farm.”</quote>

Those who can are making a run for it.


Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:47 | 2127371 Dermasolarapate...
Dermasolarapaterraphatrima's picture

Let the Hoi Poloi vote..makes them feel as if they have a voice in something.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 19:48 | 2127374 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Greek default will be a non-event. Mark my words.

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:00 | 2127387 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 A bunch of F..king " CONE HEADS" sitting around  " sTONe  Henge " ... 

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 20:01 | 2127389 Hondo
Hondo's picture

Agree this is Kyenes in full bloom...nothing was mentined of who will take the hit (I'm ok with wiping out bank equity and management)..and it was not mentioned on how to stop this from happening again...stop lending to the people past the point of what income can support (I understand there was bank fraud but there was fraud at the individual level also).  I'm OK with full reserve banking...slower growth but more stable growth with only the top quartile of ideas getting funding....not clicks for chicks....

Keynesian ideas are bankrupt...as governments (with people demanding) will only practice the spending side of the equation.  Things will get worse and people will only change after the catastrophic event happens....they will demand it

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 06:29 | 2127429 Kevlar Akubra
Kevlar Akubra's picture

The blue planet is running on cash

Which is fine when we all have a stash

But once it's all gone

It doesn't take long

Before shops close and people are bashed

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:11 | 2127730 chindit13
chindit13's picture

*previous post migrated to more appropriate article*

Sat, 02/04/2012 - 23:21 | 2127779 Fiat Money
Fiat Money's picture

Oh, for ______'s sake....  PRINTING UP 'money' and GIVING it to FAILED, BANRUPT, INSOLVENT banksters.... and/or  TAXING the working stiffs, and REDISTRIBUTING that govt extorted taxpayer money UP to the same banksters....  IS NOT  "KEYNSIAN" economics !!!!!

   YOU CAN NOT DISPROVE Keynsian economics, because of a little historical event - you may have heard of it?? - called WWII. 

   On the eve of December 7, 1941, America was IN THE THROES OF DEPRESSION, which is to say the financial/economic system was OUT OF WHACK, which means to say the PRODUCTIVE parts of the economy were NOT PRODUCING at full tilt, because another sector of society (the elites) CLAIMED that the rest of society OWED THEM "debt" MONEY.

 HOWEVER, the day AFTER Pearl Harbor, Dec. 8,  suddenly America started UNLEASHING TORRENTS of BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDING - you know, to FINANCE the WAR EFFORT.

  WAS THERE A POT OF GOLD SITTING THERE, that the nation's "leaders" had IGNORED the day before, that suddenly became available to FUND BIG GOVT SPENDING????  

No.... THE POTENTIAL to ENGAGE ALL American workers in FULL PRODUCTION (wartime production producing literally armies of tanks, trucks, guns, ammunition, oil, gas, hospitals, bases, etc.), WAS THERE ALL ALONG - but due to FINANCIAL INCOMPETENCE (and/or PREDATORY, PARASITIC, SABOTAGE economics) it had NOT been put into use.  

     Indeed, in this little event called "WWII" America's industrial output SKYROCKETED - AS  millions of her "prime" worker men were effectively taken OUT of the workforce as soldiers! 

The difference between pre-Pearl and post-Pearl economics & production??

#1. - MOTIVATION

#2. STRICT REGULATION of the FINANCIAL SECTOR -  "hoarding" "excess profits" and tax-avoidance were SEEN AS UNPATRIOTIC !!  (and VERY HIGH marginal tax rates for top incomes)

     GIVING MONEY ("bailouts") to PARASITIC, INFLATIONARY,  "economic hit men" bankers IS NOT, NOT, NOT "Keynsian" economics !! 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 00:59 | 2127959 dogismyth
dogismyth's picture

Why isn't ZH putting the robosigning settlement slated for Feb.6 up for discussion?  This will likely propel the remaining indices above their 2011 highs.

I suspect they will massage this issue until they catch more people short.  But ultimately it will be decided in favor the the TBTF banks.

Amazing the silence on this big issue since it essentially legalizes fraud but only if you have clout.

Maybe we'll hear some more about it after-the-fact.  Where's the outrage ZH?

 

http://webofdebt.wordpress.com/2012/02/04/why-the-ags-must-not-settle-ro...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!