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How The FAZ-Mobile Promises To Lose 99.6% Of Your Money Even If The Market Crashes By 60%

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Three years ago, when it first became largely adopted by the mass investing population as a hedge to a collapsing market, the 3x levered ETF known as the Direxion Daily Financial Bear 3X Shares, or FAZ in short, was the hottest thing since sliced bread. Subsequently, it has transitioned form being an object of affection to one of infinite scorn, hatred and outright homicidal urges, for one simple reason: it, like many of its other levered bearish peers, is anything but a way to profit from a collapsing market. In fact, as a recent proxy filing by Direxion indicates, it is virtually impossible to make money in the long-term using FAZ... or medium-term... or, as many would say, even intraday as well. The reason for this is simple: while nobody gets the true inner workings of these inverse x-levered ETFs, certainly not the "experts" who post three times a day on Seeking Alpha, one thing everyone should understand is what the following table straight from Direxion is saying: namely that even if the market collapses by 60%, one could lose up to 96.1% of their entire investment in the FAZ, if for some ungoldy reason, annualized vol surges to 100%. Because, you know, vol only occasionally rises when the S&P plunges by more than half. The same is applicable on any time frame: in essence the FAZ only works if the two massively contradictory Venn diagrams overlap: a market plunge and not rise in vol. Uhm, maybe they should have disclosed that a little bit sooner...

This Direxion explains as follows, just so readers can do a text search in their favorite "short" ETF to confirm that it is nothing but another disguised instrument designed to lose money no matter what the market does:

Over time, the cumulative percentage increase or decrease in the value of the Fund’s portfolio may diverge significantly from the cumulative percentage increase or decrease in the multiple of the return of the Fund’s underlying index due to the compounding effect of losses and gains on the returns of the Fund. It also is expected that the Fund’s use of leverage will cause the Fund to underperform the compounded inverse return of three times its benchmark in a trendless or flat market.

 

The effect of compounding becomes more pronounced on the Fund’s performance as the Index experiences volatility. The Index’s volatility rate is a statistical measure of the magnitude of fluctuations in the returns of the Index. The table below provides examples of how Index volatility could affect the Fund’s performance. The chart shows estimated Fund returns for a number of combinations of performance and volatility over a one-year period. As shown below, this Fund, or any other 3X Bear Fund, would be expected to lose 31.3% (as shown in Table 1 below) if its Index provided no return over a one year period during which the Index experienced annualized volatility of 25%.

 

If the Index’s annualized volatility were to rise to 75%, the hypothetical loss for a one year period for the Fund widens to approximately 96.6%. At higher ranges of volatility, there is a chance of a near complete loss of value even if the Index is flat. For instance, if the Index’s annualized volatility is 100%, the Fund would be expected to lose approximately 100% of its value, even if the cumulative Index return for the year was only 0%.

With that table in mind, perhaps the next table is far more palatable: it shows the "performance" of the FAZ-mobile... straight to the poorhouse.

We dread to even calculate what an investment of $100 on January 1 2009 would be worth today.

And here are some other pearls of brilliance from the Direxion proxy:

Shorting Risk — The Fund may engage in short sales designed to earn the Fund a profit from the decline in the price of particular securities, baskets of securities or indices. However, there is a risk that the Fund will experience a loss as a result of engaging in these short sales.

Mmhmm, you go long an inverse leveraged ETF which guarantees to lose you money in the long-run, yet the fund, which works by synthetic and actual shorting, warns you of risk associated with... shorting?

But the kicker undoubtedly is:

Income and capital gain distributions you receive from the Fund are subject to federal income taxes and may also be subject to state and local taxes. Distributions for this Fund may be significantly higher than those of most exchange-traded funds.

Oh, something tells us the likelihood of FAZ being the source of actual taxable income, and thus having to worry a whole lot about this particular risk factor, is not all that high.

In other words: anyone who believes that market may go up or collapse, with vol exploding, should probably consder not going long the FAZ. Or any other levered ETF, all of which effectively guarantee to lose most if not all of your capital. Because apparently America never learned its lesson with synthetic CDOs in the aftermath of Abacus et al.

 

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Sun, 12/25/2011 - 21:49 | 2010894 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

but i bought calls and i lost my whole investment again... Long Teddy options -  http://hedge.ly/gFWVSm

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:12 | 2011017 trav7777
trav7777's picture

even the 2x ETFs were only good for a sustained, one-way market move.  Anything else and they eat your "investment"

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:05 | 2011118 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

You mean ... like this ... ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAKsMnAM8vk

Regards,

Cooter

Tue, 12/27/2011 - 05:10 | 2012864 cn21713
cn21713's picture

 

The flaw is very simple math.

It becomes obvious if you simulate an index starting at $100 and a -3X of that index starting at $100.   To exadurate and draw out the difference, just simulate what happens if the index goes from $100 to $90 one day and then back to $100 the next.   The same thing happens if the index goes from $100 to $110 and then back to $100.

Start: Index 100 | -3X 100

Day 1: Index 90 | -3X 130 (10/100 = 0.1 x 3 = 0.3 x 100 = +30)

Day 2: Index 100 | -3X 86.66 (-10/90 = -0.1111 x 3 = -0.3333 x 130 = -43.3333)

And it's gone!  The index made it back to where it started but -3X did not.

... OR ....

Start: Index 100 | -3X 100

Day 1: Index 110 | -3X 70 (-10/100 = -0.1 x 3 = -0.3 x 100 = -30)

Day 2: Index 100 | -3X 89.09 (-10/110 = -0.0909 x 3 = -0.2727 x 70 = +19.09)

And it's gone!  The index made it back to where it started but -3X did not.

There is a positive compounding that occurs when the market moves the same direction in two consecutive days.  But that positive compounding would be at best a function of the natural log (continuous compounding).   While the decay illustrated above is an exponential function.  If you know math or computer science the 'big O', or order of magnitude of an exponential function will always overwhelm a natural log over time.

 

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:25 | 2011138 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

FUCKED UP BEYOND BELIEF! I'll SELL MY FAZ WHEN IT GOES EXPONENTIAL LIKE IT DID FOR ME BACK IN 08. OR I'LL LOSE 96% OH WELL.......MERRY FUCKING XMAS!

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 12:24 | 2011798 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Tylers:

Thank you for this post. Myself and other who, in the past, have criticized these ETFs get downgraded, cursed at, called noobs etc.

Yet I could see firsthand how these ETFs just eat money and fail to perform. I executed some perfectly-timed trades in FAZ, DZZ, and ZSL (gold and silver shorts) on strong down days, but the returns simply weren't there for the massive risk in these funds. And the Tylers are absolutely correct, if you hold even short-term, capital evaporates in these funds.

These funds generate fees and are for bank delta one desks, they fucking suck for real traders. If you want to short equities or commodities, trade the e-mini, get cheap SPY puts, get puts on the VXX, or trade the /gc etc. on the commodity side. All of these can be very nice trades if you gauge market direction correctly.

As for the haters, go ahead and hit that down arrow. I'm up nicely for the year, including with my dividend payers. Fuck your inverse 3x garbage, it's utter shit, stop posting about it because no one cares.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 13:48 | 2011918 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Nice job pointing out the math.  It is hard to believe that ETF's get funded while guaranteeing to lose money.  And nobody follows the other side of the contracts.

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 16:50 | 2012156 Thisson
Thisson's picture

It's supposed to be a hedging vehicle for institutional traders.  That means that if you're losing money on FAZ, you're supposed to be making money on something else.  If this doesn't describe you, you shouldn't be trading it (duh!).  It's all in the prospectus, in plain English.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 21:53 | 2010901 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Double your iq or no money back? Ok... Sounds good to me....

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 21:58 | 2010905 a10fjet
a10fjet's picture

piss! i bought 500 bucks of FAZ a month ago, its doin alright, cuz the market is pretty much flat right now.

whatever i have my silver...

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 14:51 | 2012010 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

I'm sure your comment is missing the <sarc> flag but RTF article..

 

"Mmhmm, you go long an inverse leveraged ETF which guarantees to lose you money in the long-run"

 

one month doesn't qualify as 'long-run', unless if you a HFT

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 21:59 | 2010907 zebrasquid
zebrasquid's picture

near term puts on XLF is the better way to go, by far.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 12:25 | 2011801 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Yes.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:00 | 2010908 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Creative WS way to steal more of your money. Gotta love 'm.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:00 | 2010909 a10fjet
a10fjet's picture

I didnt read the whole thing but I know it follows -3x percentage return on Russell 1000 RGS Financial Services http://www.google.com/finance?cid=4527048

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:02 | 2010912 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Most people get junked when they caution the FAZnatics about holding long term.

Can you short FAZ?

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:00 | 2010990 Bullish Bear
Bullish Bear's picture

Yes, if you long FAS

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:10 | 2011013 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Did you even read the article?

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:05 | 2011573 CPL
CPL's picture

It's called leveraged decay and this is an exit and entry point spreadsheet for FA and FAS.  Feel free to use, it's public domain as far as I'm concerned.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlcjUXwfgidwcHFtbnlFVFNzcHJ...

 

I have this now as an algo module for Eclipse Trade.  I cannot stress enough that people understand when the market is doing nothing and it's volitity is crazy you lose money, when the market is up, you lose money, when it is down, you lose money.

 

You trade in 10k blocks, which get filled instantly.  But you do not hold longer than 10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes.  But when trading in 10k blocks single penny movements become the bread and butter.  You NEED an algo to play skip rope with them with a tight stop.  It's like momentum plays except done in five minutes.

 

YOU NEVER WRITE OPTIONS on these ever, and by that, I mean NEVER.

YOU NEVER go to the bathroom with an open trade with them.

 

If you are trading the x3ETF's, they are not how you are going to become a millionare.  I have watched lots of people get very baddly hurt by these.  Myself in included.  Worst loss in a single day I've had is 280k, took months to make it back which means cash flow was zero.  Worst place for a trader to be is trapped in a trade.  Leveraged ETF's give you an hour to consider all options before losing your shirt.  

 

So I am slightly more conservative than Tyler, I don't even believe they should be held through intraday.  Take your profit and run when you can.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 13:19 | 2011875 tj3
tj3's picture

Maybe one day I will. Thanks for trying to be good in this season of loving .

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 14:05 | 2011943 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Funny, these etf's are to be used with five minute charts. Whatever. The prospectus tells you it's a losing proposition, that's why they call it x DAILY.

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 18:03 | 2012255 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

Thanks for this info. I have also gotten burned with this, through my own ignorance, no doubt.

I don't know if I'm able to trade the way you're describing, but hopefully it can pay off.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:12 | 2011580 CPL
CPL's picture

An ETF gradually loses its value over due to its fees, taxes and other expenses. Because an ETF is a managed portfolio, some more actively managed than others, it costs money to run it, as opposed to holding a stock.

The "up 10% down 10%" type of decay only applies to leveraged ETFs. For a market that goes up 10% and then down 10% next day, it most certainly is NOT a flat market. In fact it's down 1%, so a non leveraged ETF will track that market movement perfectly, that is before fees. A perfect 3X leveraged ETF however, will go down to 91 (first up 30% to 130, then down 30% to 91, assuming the 10% moves happened on different days as ETFs do not re-balance intra day) losing an extra 8%.

ETF decay is unrelated to long term market trends, and happens constantly whether the market is going up or down.

 

Essentially its a mutual fund on crack with intense micro management on a market basket with the worst hedge on the planet, the market equitites themselves.

 

If you picked up FAS in 2009 on March 9th instead of some piece of shit like LVS.  YOu would have noted that you only gained a 300% return.  Versus a shit pile like LVS or even AXL returned around 21000%.

 

Do NOT confuse x3ETFs with equitites, the misunderstanding is fatal to most retail and professional investors alike.

 

Want to hold something?  Gold, silver, oil and I put coal on my list this weekend.  Looks like coal as a product, if reading the news across the planet is in short supply.

 

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 19:49 | 2012384 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

What's the best way to hold oil? USO sucks, some recommend USL, looking for better ideas.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 22:35 | 2012568 beachdude
beachdude's picture

BNO, UCO, DIG.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 04:57 | 2011449 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

I dont think its out there anymore, but you used to be able to find inventory to short a bit of time ago. Some funds that found the 'irregularity' of 3x funds (both short and long pairs) going to zero in the long run (before their subsequerent R/Ss) were actively shorting the FAS/FAZ or what have you and making out on it farily well. The problem was the borrows which were quite expensive as no broker would lend out their levered ETFs and so you had to call a desk and specifically ask for a fill, and most of the time, you got a horrible $1+ each way of spread (whereas the market (though no size) had a $0.01 spread!) killing your profits right off the get go.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 07:42 | 2011515 lewy14
lewy14's picture

I ran some data a while back which confirmed the killer trade was to short both FAS and FAZ at the same time. This guaranteed the long term win while minimizing drawdown no matter which way the underlying market moved.

Needless to say, retail shmucks like me have no access to this trade. If I could get it and hold it a year I'd probably take the dollar spread; I'd have to run some sims... bigger risk is forced buy in.

I'm sure somebody (authorized participants) are doing this trade. It's free money.

Embedded theta, |3!4+<|-|ez

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:14 | 2011582 CPL
CPL's picture

Yup.

 

Short bursting trading patterns using an Algo are the only way to trade them, if at all.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:07 | 2010915 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

in essence the FAZ only works if the two massively contradictory Venn diagrams overlap: a market plunge and not rise in vol. Uhm, maybe they should have disclosed that a little bit sooner...

POW!

BaM!!

BOOM!!!

BITCHEZ!!!!

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:09 | 2010918 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Shorting both FAZ and FAS simultaneously result in profits due to diminishing returns. Basically, Direxion don't do good.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:41 | 2011179 Willzyx
Willzyx's picture

Finra effectively put a stop to that by raising margin requirements on leveraged ETF's.  You need to post 60% of the value to short a long ETF and 90% to short an inverse ETF.  Since you can't leverage the trade, ROi is crushed.  Factor in trading costs to rebalace the portfolio daily and taxes on short term capital gains (watch out for wash sales) you'd be lucky to crank out 1% or 2% return.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 05:01 | 2011451 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Yes, posted about this above, however you are wrong in assuming Direxion didn't do good. They actually did very very good off their introduction of the 3Xs that they filed subsequent requests to have new vehicles up and running but it never made it past the SEC (or whoever the first regulatory agent is in verifying the docs).

Direxion makes money daily on every single one of their ETFs. They dont care about the direction the market goes, and the more volatility (and volume), the better for them. 

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:15 | 2010922 HD
HD's picture

I did very well this year trading SDS...  Not sure why anyone would hold these ETFs as an "investment" though.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:23 | 2010931 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

It's not so much about holding it for an investment as it is the thought of sitting on a lotto ticket. Except it just does not seem to work this way as this article explains.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:00 | 2011569 Bob
Bob's picture

It's a rare situation that bucks the longterm trend of value deterioration.  TZA, their triple inverse Russell 2000, gained 100% the week in August that Congress was playing with default.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:16 | 2010924 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

I had a good run with HOU and HDD here in 2009 - these are 2x Canadian ETFs which track spot oil and CAD/USD. However I only used them short-term and dumped them once I had hit my targets. Never want to touch 2x, 3x, nx anything. They be toxic I tell ya, toxic.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:28 | 2010938 gmak
gmak's picture

It appears that most if not all of Direxion inverse leveraged funds have this volatility quirk. That means that one is pretty much guaranteed to lose money if long (or using calls). 

Was this always the case? I seem to remember many of them ramping up in 2008. Have they changed the financial structures used to recreate the performance?

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:29 | 2010941 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

doesn't get more "jewish" than this kosher scam.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:36 | 2010946 HUGE_Gamma
HUGE_Gamma's picture

its a cheap gimmick for etrade babies

 

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:35 | 2010952 CreativeDestructor
CreativeDestructor's picture

well, it sounds like if you short FAZ then you are almost guaranteed to make money? hello!!!

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:46 | 2010970 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Except most people have known this for years, and there are no shares to borrow.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:43 | 2010957 jackinrichmond
jackinrichmond's picture

TVIX is another mystery..

it goes negative when the markets shoot up half a point (as it should), but when the markets totally reverse course and plummet a full point (in the same day !), TVIX stays negative..  

heads they win, tails you lose.  it used to be a good volatility indicator, but now i don't know what it is, so i stopped following it..

i wonder if it is being controlled by something other than volatility..

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:19 | 2011586 CPL
CPL's picture

My suspicion is it's been a script tied to nothing but a random number generator set in limits.

 

I personally don't think people have been involved in the markets for 7 years.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:53 | 2010977 dirtydroog
dirtydroog's picture

Isn't this the case with anything that's leveraged though? Unfortunately these ETFs are some people's only means to trade their market views. Time to run some Brownian Bridge simulations...

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 22:56 | 2010985 ShoeShineBoy
ShoeShineBoy's picture

sounds like buying puts on FAZ as a market collapse hedge is the sure way to make money

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 17:56 | 2012246 JuicedGamma
JuicedGamma's picture

Spreads are wide and the vol is priced to gouge.  It won't work.  Save your money and time.

 

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:05 | 2011000 radicall
radicall's picture

USO and VXX  another one of these.. contango will kill you.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:10 | 2011012 DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

They should get rid of all this ETF bullshit.

Get back to straightforward trading with straightforward, transparent rules.

Obfuscation serves the elite.  It's impossible to understand the shit that's peddled these days - but that's how they want it to be, isn't it?

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:59 | 2011631 SmoothCoolSmoke
SmoothCoolSmoke's picture

I'dbe fine withthat, if the gov't would let you short, or buy puts with your 401k.  But they won't!  So inverse ETFs are the only way to hedge your a 401 K.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 20:01 | 2012402 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

That really sucks - up here in Canada you're allowed to buy puts in your retirement savings plan.

Tue, 12/27/2011 - 16:02 | 2014440 Aeon the Terrible
Aeon the Terrible's picture

Can you roll out the funds from the 401k to a rollover without leaving your job or stopping your contribution? All the 401k from previous jobs are in one rollover IRA in which I trade options (and equities).

 

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:24 | 2011030 KevinH
KevinH's picture

FAS and FAZ going to 0 is simple mathematics. Just look at the following. Assume that FAS/FAZ tracks SnP, and not the SnP financial component.

Edit: The excel didn't copy correctly, but this should do the trick:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/707/28465139.jpg/

As you can see, SnP is unchanged after 9 days, but both fas and faz are down huge.

Only way for FAS or FAZ, or any of the 2x/3x ETFs to go up in value in the long run is if the market goes straight up or straight down. Any kind of swing sideways and these etfs lose money. An idea I had a while ago was to double short FAS and FAZ, and just hold for 1 year and make money on the decay. The idea still works but only problem is you need a broker that is willing to lend you these shares for that long, and enough capital.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:32 | 2011039 Travis Bickel
Travis Bickel's picture

Huh, I bought FAZ on 9//27 for $56.01 and sold on 10/04 for $80.01. That kind of worked out okay. Seriously.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 19:40 | 2012375 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Depends on the nature of the price movement. In your case it sounds like you made about 24/56 * 100 = 43%. That would make sense if for every trading day the underlying asset return was < 0.

However, as some are pointing out here - let's say you had a combination of positive and negative returns. If the movements were extreme enough (volatility?) you could end up with a negative return even though the market moved in a negative direction.

You did the right thing - used it short term. Like I said before I also used it short-term. However if the underlying asset return is volatile enough, you could get completely wiped out.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:27 | 2011046 DannyTX
DannyTX's picture

I just wish I could understand the damn Direxion explanation.  I’ve been sitting on QID for a few months.  It has done almost to the 1/10% 2X double the QQQ direction every day.  I was up a little, now down a little.  Now I read this shit.  Sure as I get out it will go to 440 like it did after Lehmanville. 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 04:52 | 2011445 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

The percentages are what fuck you.  Let's say it starts at a price of $100/share.  Day one, market up 3%, QID down 6%, or $6. New price $94/share.  Day two, market moves down 3%, QID up 6%.  6% of 94 is $5.64, price is now $99.64...  I hope you see where I'm going with this. the losses are almost always greater than the gains in the long run (esp when ole bernanke doesn't want to let the market drop).

Sell that shit.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 09:23 | 2011589 CPL
CPL's picture

Don't, it's pointless arguing with ignorance. 

I've had this same conversation on ETF's, Mutual funds and RRSP/401k for years.  People want to BELIEVE that there is something unique about their situation that math will ignore.  Just look at every central bank and government; denial, denial, denial and not a penny to make.  Since TPTB preach awesome animal spirits instead of pragmatism, the followers of the "church" will continue to throw money hand over fist at the problem.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 13:10 | 2011867 algol_dog
algol_dog's picture

I don't know why people have such a hard time with the concept of these X's ETF's. This knowledge has been out for years and everyone should know by now that you don't use these for investment strategies. They're made for hedging and long/short scenarios or to daytrade when markets are trending definitively. I have used them and profited nicely when used this way.

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 23:40 | 2011072 centerline
centerline's picture

There used to be a FAZ/FAS loss-o-meter awhile back.  Was pretty funny.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:12 | 2011127 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Is it not just much easier to short BAC C and WFC directly. Why mess with ETFs we know so little about. 

But, I have tried FAZ in the past....and lost.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:17 | 2011132 throwthebumsout
throwthebumsout's picture

I trade the triple ETFs a lot.  They work as advertized.  In this market you take the money and run.  A couple of days is a long term trade.  If you sit there for a year and the market goes up or down and ends back in the same place, they will lose a little. I am up 45% this year on my entire account and never full invested.  Use them like they are designed and make money.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:27 | 2011148 ravens9111
ravens9111's picture

buy Puts and you can't lose in the long run? wonder when the next reverse split is on TZA? just keep rolling those Puts over every three months?

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:20 | 2011261 Aeon the Terrible
Aeon the Terrible's picture

That was my initial reaction. Will monitor moving forward, lol.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:29 | 2011153 medicalstudent
medicalstudent's picture

buy in the morning, sell at 1400h or so.

 

what is the big deal.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:30 | 2011155 medicalstudent
medicalstudent's picture

shit look at zsl.

 

it was at 20 when silver spot was 35.

 

now its 14 something at spot of 29.

 

this shit decays to zero.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 00:49 | 2011198 DannyTX
DannyTX's picture

OK--I'm in Dupeville.  QQQ was 55.31 on 1-03-11, closed at 56.08 on 12-23, call it $1.00 gain. 

QID was $56.35 1-3-11, closed $44.78 on 12-23, call it $12.00 loss.  On an annualized return one would expect QID to be down $2.00 instead of $12.00. 

Shit----I've only been in QID a few months.  I'm going to gamble on a Q1 crash via Eurozone.  I will watch it closely daily and look for an exit. 

 

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:20 | 2011258 Aeon the Terrible
Aeon the Terrible's picture

Yep, thanks Tyler.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 04:40 | 2011441 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

QID was the nail in the coffin for me and stocks.  Last year, when first starting my adventures into the markets, my contrarian perspective was duped by a well placed article in... don't laugh, marketwatch.  The author was screaming about the financial markets getting ready to implode at any second and recommended using Inverse ETFs as the way to win.  I bought in, and kept waiting for the down days (shortly after QE started...) which never came and kept eating my position alive.  Live and learn, then buy gold.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 21:56 | 2012532 ucsbcanuck
ucsbcanuck's picture

Why not buy puts on the Eurozone directly via banks and index ETFs which are optionable e.g.

Spain

EWP

STD

BBVA

Italy

EWI

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:05 | 2011229 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

Pretty funny, 'Made in China' ...

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:18 | 2011256 Aeon the Terrible
Aeon the Terrible's picture

So this trade is almost purely betting on other peoples buying during a big drop right? A number of people know FAZ and when the get nervous they buy it up hoping to have some good short exposure? I feel so sheepish after reading this given that I previously held this ETF. (Then again it was short term and I sold at a small loss after being down like 30% at one point ouch...). But then again, isn't everything traded on the margin and isn't the underlying value irrelevant since only hope and fear move things these days? Either way, I'm glad I dumped this ETF prior to reading this. Puts seem to work out much better if I need some short exposure.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 01:45 | 2011288 merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

I've been waiting a long time for ZH to slander those cocksuckers at Seeking Alpha; those pompous windbag shitheads can't go a whole week without completely contradicting themselves.  I was surprised to see it on the list of 'Zero Hedge Reads:" because I won't read that trash.  And now it's not on the list... did I imagine, or was it deleted?  Minyanville is some more shit.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 03:20 | 2011375 Coldfire
Coldfire's picture

Lottery tickets for a draw that never comes.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 04:24 | 2011434 Scirocco
Scirocco's picture

If the fucker just trends down, just sell long dated out of the money calls on it... Given the volatility, you will get a high premium, looks like a nice trade eh.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 05:05 | 2011453 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

2 words: tail risk.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 07:13 | 2011511 Buyemall
Buyemall's picture

faz looks promising tue wed ....

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 07:48 | 2011521 dcb
dcb's picture

I have played with these with success, but never as a longer holding, and only on the double inverse funds, plus as part of a long short starategy and trading the long opposite. It's very hard, and both need to be charted, with the invesrs3e funds needing to be updated.

my biggest problem in fact comes with the sand p, because it opens for charting purposes at yesterdays close whle the inverse fund actually opens up or down. this leads to large erros in trendlines if a week open lower. the inverse funds has a much higher "opening" than the regular stock.

I would like to know what people the data says on the regular (non leveraged inverse funds.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 07:49 | 2011523 dcb
dcb's picture

tbt really says it all.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 10:23 | 2011654 Mach1513
Mach1513's picture

Came back from the dead - six figure account loss - with these things in 2009. Bought long and short pairs simultaniously, waited for market to take a directional move, then closed the losing position, let the gaining position ride til it reversed and sold as soon as it stalled or reversed. Came all the way back from the dead - then my broker stopped executing my on-line trades. Said they were too risky for an IRA acount. It was for my own good!

You do have to stay glued to your monitor - can blow up fast.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 12:58 | 2011828 DannyTX
DannyTX's picture

My gut has been wrong side out ever since reading this last night.  How did I not know this crap?  I've been trading over twenty years.  I used to be NASD licensed.  I guess the typical man here----didn't read the directions//prospectus.  Actually I glanced over it quickly.  However, my trade entry was based simply on charts and past performance under certain circumstances. 

I'm still going to give this a closely monitored few weeks.  The "predicted" first few weeks should bring me back to break even or even on the plus side.  If the market moves sideways for a few weeks, or if Bernankenstein pumps a bazillion dollars into Europe, I am bailing out and licking my wounds. 

I guess one thing that doesn't make sense is that under the scenarios shown you would think the share value would end up being ZERO at some point in time no matter what.  There could be face ripping spikes up, but QID ever seeing 440 again---I doubt it.  It just looks like that given enough time that sooner or later, whether it is one year or ten years, the share value for these piles of shit funds would be ZERO.  How does the SEC allow this shit to exist???

 

 

 

 

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 13:20 | 2011877 The_Emperor
The_Emperor's picture

The best trade is if you are bullish you short the bear ETF (short FAZ) ... if you're bearish you short the bull ETF (FAS).

P.S. Shorting both ETF (FAZ and FAS) is not a guaranteed way to make you money (plus you have borrowing fees from your broker and they can close one of the legs of the trade at anytime).

 

The Imperatore

www.theimperatore.blogspot.com

 

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 13:39 | 2011898 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

"Daily Investment Vehicle" 

Lets get this straight.... You are in the "markets",  you are doing business with known criminals,  you are suprised to find that they are trying to take your money at an even faster pace?

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 21:36 | 2012512 ThrivingAdmistC...
ThrivingAdmistCollapse's picture

Better the criminals in the market than the street thug criminals after the economic collapse.

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 14:24 | 2011964 SKY85hawk
SKY85hawk's picture

Haven't you heard that buy and hold is dead?

Look at the chart with Bollinger bands enabled.

             FAS   &    FAZ trade in opposite directions.

10/04  B 51.00

10/27  S 80.75     B 36.87

11/23  B 48.69     S 54.83

12/07  S 68.30     B 37.34

12/19                  S 44.65

Buy low and sell Hi

Keep it Simple!

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 15:04 | 2012034 Newager23
Newager23's picture

FAZ, like the other 2X or 3X ETFs, is a highly risky investment and should only be used for two purposes. First, for very short trading periods of only a few days, and second in concert with a Leap Option.

The Leap option is used to catch the scenario when it will pay off in a big way. If you get a prolonged crash in the market, say 30 or 60 days of a straight down crash, then these options will pay off huge. Thus, if you use this strategy for insurance against a crash, say to protect a portfolio of gold mining stocks, then it is a good insurance play.

I do this every year to protect my gold mining stocks, and this year I had significant capitial gains from my options on FAZ. And these gains were in a year when we had a significant downturn in financials, but not a crash. If we would have had 30 day crash, these options would have exploded.

www.goldsilverdata.com (for those who invest in gold and silver mining stocks)

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 17:49 | 2012240 The_Emperor
The_Emperor's picture

A leap option on a 3x levereged ETF ? That's going to be very expensive, high maturity + high implied vol.

You should buy the Leap on the XLF, the vol is lower, so it will be cheaper.

 

The Imperatore

www.theimperatore.blogspot.com

 

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 23:19 | 2012618 covert
covert's picture

followed by a too big to fail bailout?

http://covert.mypressonline.com

 

Tue, 12/27/2011 - 04:01 | 2012807 vato poco
vato poco's picture

To the Tylers -

Many MANY thanks for this post. We all scramble to  make a buck these days, and I do what I can with the (rigged) markets. (Doing the opposite of what Whitney Tilson is doing, and what Goldman *says* they're doing seems to be working well, lately.) I usually make more than I lose - often with the help of ZH and the commenters - but while I'm not exactly a babe in the woods, I'm well aware there's a helluva lot I don't know. (Say, for example, just exactly how toxic 3X ETF's are.) I'm embarrassed to admit I've dabbled with FAS/FAZ in the past, thankfully for very short-term holds - but even though I knew these weren't quality investments, and only to be bought in times of "greater fool" opportunities, I had no *real* idea of what I was dealing with: a ticking time bomb laced with deadly neurotoxins.

I'll bet I'm not the only one. But I won't be doing it ever again, thanks to y'all.

I would assume this one post alone will save hundreds if not thousands of people like me thousands if not millions of dollars. Marc Faber & Kyle Bass posts are great, and by all means keep 'em coming, but this is the Post of the year, as far as I'm concerned. Grateful donation coming this week.

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