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How Germans Feel About More European Bailouts

Tyler Durden's picture


In summary, this is how Germans feel about continued ongoing bailouts of Germany's liquid(ity) crack-addicted neighbors:

As Spiegel confirms, "I think it is almost futile" by a mile, and most notably the lead is getting bigger and bigger, as we predicted a year ago, as the various liabilities, open and contingent (up to an including the €1-2 billion in daily TARGET2 of liability transfer to keep the periphery buying Germany products), are being increasingly more appreciated by Fritz Sechspack. It is in this context that we urge everyone to take any and all pronouncements by Mario Monti that Germany has caved with a bushel of salt, as unless Merkel is resigned to, well, resign, it just ain't gonna happen (as the market realized once again late last week).

And probably just as important is the fact that unlike the rest of the world which is spending like a drunken sailor, it is only the Germans who realize, perhaps courtesy of their all too recent past, that there just isn't such a thing as a free lunch. Because the one question the respondents felt most strongly about was whether as a result of the Euro crisis, are you concerned about significant inflation in daily life. The vast majority, or 69% responded with Yes. Of course, they are right, and at this point it is just a matter of time, because all else equal, just the popping of the €720+ billion unsustainable Bundesbank imbalance bubble will lead to runaway inflation as explained last week.

It will be interesting to watch the developments of all these response series in time, as Germany gets dragged ever deeper into Europe's growing economic depression, and as those who currently find no reason to worry about their jobs, a whopping 64% of them, start in fact worrying about their jobs, and projecting their fears, and anger at unemployment on, you guessed it, all their European neighbors.

One query which saw overwhelming support, not surprisingly, was whether Europe should create a centralized European authority, which has strict control over Europe's fiscal future, aka a central-planner, one which is implicitly German. 74% of Germans are in favor. So far so good. We wonder, however, how Spain, Italy, and France would respond to a question asking them if they are ready to cede their own sovereignty to a German uber-state. If history is any indication, not very favorably.

Full survey here.


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Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:11 | 2596203 financial apoca...
financial apocalyptic contagion's picture


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:15 | 2596206 i-dog
i-dog's picture

... b-b-b-but 41% still want to continue the Ponzi!!!!!

Exactly how much fluoride is in German water anyway?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:19 | 2596221 cossack55
cossack55's picture

In Germany they put fluoride in beer. No one drinks the water,

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:27 | 2596237 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Are these the same 41% who support Obama?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:53 | 2596400 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

90% of German media is lying and brainwashing Germans, particularly the government TV chains.
People are not (yet) aware of what's happening to them.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:32 | 2596441 reload
reload's picture

Agree 100%

Spent a couple of days last week in Germany, eyes take on a glazed look when `Eurocrisis` enters the conversation.

Most dont want to know the details, they think `the government will fix it`

I only met one person (an airline pilot) with any degree of engagement in the subject. His view (wildly different from my own) is that fiscal union will fix it!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:43 | 2596461 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Yes, but most Americans don't know they have a Debt = 22% Global GDP. You need to talk to educated people who iknow the inside tracik. Only the few know the inside track

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:43 | 2596463 OttoMBMP
OttoMBMP's picture

The half educated are the worst.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:34 | 2596444 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

That makes more sense as I'm shocked so many Germans still support this mess.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:19 | 2596579 ghenny
ghenny's picture

Obama saved you fools from your buddy George Bush and his borrow and spend binge with unpaid for drugs for seniors and two wars on the credit card along with no supervision of the banksters and real estate crooks. Sure Clinton got rid of Glass Stegal but the trade-off was supervision and it did not happen under Bush/Cheney/Greenspan.  Of course all this started with Reagan and his huge budge deficits to pay for a mega arms buildup while cutting taxes in a way that Eisenhower would have considered criminal.  David Stockman can tell you all about that. He can also tell you all about the crony deals done to benefit the Bush/Cheney family friends in the arms and oil business.

 Every study shows we are better off economically under Democratic Presidents but you loons still vote for the Republican bozos who don't understand economics or understand how to cheat the "free enterprise" system which they hate because they hate meritocracy and are the masters of "crony capitalism".  I will take plenty of criticism of the Democrats ref Public Labor Unions and crooked public works projects but at least most of the time they tax us to pay for their baloney.  The Republicans just borrow and cut taxes. Clinton left us with surpluses as far as the eye could see and that loser business failure dady/Rainwater supported Bush squandered it all like he did all that Saudi Bin Laden money that paid for his playing at being an oil man (that of course is why he got the Bin Ladens out of the country and never took out Osama).

Obama did take out Osama and inherited a once in a century meltdown and kept us afloat in the teeth of Republican obstruction.  8.2 % unemployment is not good but its a whole lot better than 10 or 11% or higher which is what the Bush screw ups gave us.  Without the balance sheets expansions and the deficit financing we would have 25% core unemployment, especilly since the Republicans refuse to allow the rich to be taxed even though they have taken home the lions share of all income and wealth generated in the last 20 years while for the most part skimming it by financial manipulaton rather than truly earning it.  

I know a lot of those turkeys because I grew up with them and I am a member of the privileged patrician class.  Most of them are cheats and crooks to the core who feel entitled and don't give a f.... about ordinary Americans.  In fact they feel they have a hereditary right to live better for the next upteenth generations.  Go figure.  In my view they are the true traitors in this country since they troll for wealth around the world and outsource American jobs whenever they can to stay on top. Then they scream when a Berni Madoff fleeces them by offering them new ways to cheat the system that are too good to be true and expect the feds to bail them out.

I know how they use corporate transfer pricing to avoid paying taxes and stash cash in offshore accounts and purchase politicians to write loopholes to contribute nothing to the general well being. I know how they use asset stripping to hollow out viable companis and pretend they are business builders.  Romney is a prime example. He never came across a struggling company he did not figure out how screw out of their cashflow like Gordon Geko. He never created a product or a valuable service that would benefit ordinary people and now he is helping his sons to do the same.  HIs father George would be horrified.  Sure the Democrats help the Unions but its small potatoes compared to these guys.

What I fault Obama for is he has not prosecuted the banksters and other corporate crooks on a scale needed because he is trying to be a moderate.  He did not fight for a single payer healthcare sysem because he deludes himself that healthcare can use market forces to bring down costs. No chance.  His plan, Romney's plan and Ryans plan are ridled with corrupt crony protections for healthcare oligopolies and yes I know all about that too since I played in that space for awhile in my career.  You ain't seen nothing until you observe health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and crooked medical supply companies and Medicare mills with crooked doctors and their business handlers rip off schemes.    They are epic.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 16:47 | 2596753 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

The great thing about red/blue politics is how comforting it is for humans to have clear, straightforward explanations they can believe in and teams they can root for. 

So no matter how obvious the truth is they wil remain untroubled by the evidence and keep saying things like "Well, at least my guy is better than those other bastards, and he would be even better if he would stop trying to compromise with those lousy evil bastards."

I think I actually like this about humans.  It's actually kind of sweet and innocent. 

I mean -- it's how the monsters are controlling us, and it's how they are feeding us to the furnace, and it's why they think of us as food animals -- but it's still kind of sweet.


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 17:24 | 2596841 theTribster
theTribster's picture

You think Obama didn't go after the banksters because of his moderate approach? What you don't understand is that pitting the republicans against the democrats make us weak, there is NO difference at all. Obama is doing what he is told, as wll Mittens if he gets elected. The policies and regulations are dictated by oligarchs and corporations - and Obama, Clinton, Bush and Mittens suck thier dicks to get to manipulate the public into thinking they have power. Can you imageine, seriously, if Bush had really had power and control? They used him perfectly, playing on his stupidity to get away wars, corporate favoritism and even rigging the election(s). The only thing that bothered nitwit Gore was he didn't think of it or (more likely) wasn't able to pull it off because of Bush's brother being Governor.

You are being manipulated into believing that there is a difference between the parties and they have different agenda's, they don't really. It should be obvious especially after Obama came in and codefied everything George Bush had done within a couple months that there is no difference. Clinton was much more republican than democrat just as Bush was more Democrat in a lot of ways, look at the size of gubmint under Bush! Obama is a moderate, he lies to both sides of the aisle, in fact I've never seen a President lie as much as this guy and get away with it time and time again. He makes Clinton look like an amateur when it comes to lying and beling slick.

Bush, as we all know, we too stupid to lie, he let his cabinet and other party members do that for him. George was likely the dumbest president in history while Obama is the most dishonest. They are all treasonous, the last several Presidents and Congress for even longer, of the highest order no less - the kind of treason that in the 40s and 50s got you killed. Outsourcing of American jobs, when done intentionally is criminal, and the democrats have managed to export more jobs than we could ever sustain losing - and their not done yet!

Politics happens in the back room behind closed doors with corporations and money men driving the process. The politicians have given up working for the people, they endorse this new model of gubmint where they are their own little business entity selling access to the highest bidders. If you win you get to write the laws and the regulations while the sponsoring politicians don't even take the time to read them! When they are able to get the documents to read that is. Our system is a joke and to suggest that one candidate is any better than the other is ridiculous, dangerous and it perpetuates the belief that there is a fundamental difference between the parties - like we have a real choice!

BTW, keep in mind that George Bush's Medicare Part D will bankrupt the government faster than any otehr two programs combined - that's right Medicaid, SS or the other parts of Medicare. George, not that he sucked biog Pharma dick or anything, decided to put in a non-negotiation clause into the law - meaning the Pharam's can charge whatever they want and the gubmint has to pay it. My understanding is that the Pharma industry uses this capability like a throttle to help them manipualte earnings when needed (Google has a similar capability with ads). Is that a Republican thing to do? certainly not the entitlement just the law of non-negotiation.

As I write this post I realize how much I hate both parties. While I dislike Obama immensely, I actually think Congress is the biggest problem because of the level of corruption that has evolved over the lifetime careers of people like John (Worthless Piece of Shit) McCain and the dozens of other lifers. These are the primary people that have colluded to destroy the country just so they can personally benefit. There are situations where a congressmen has sold a vote that led to 10s of millions of dollars for a fucking golf game at some bullshit high end course! These guys are pin heads, from the President all the way down through his administration and into both parties of Congress. The Supreme Court is obviously a complete joke, everyone has written them off as bought and paid (because they are).

Obama saved us from Bush. Wow, he couldn't codify Bush's actions regarding the war or the financial situation fast enough, how about the Patriot act and other nefarious bills that are definitely "in the spirit" of Mr Bush and the other idiots in his cabinet. Look at how he handled the UN, nobody believed that America could find anybody more brash then the previous nitwit but, Obama did consistent with the Bush doctrine regarding ferners. It goes on and on, Obama is a continuation of George Bush who was a cpontinuation of Clinton atc. The ultimate policy, the one we don't know about, is what drives all of this poiticians and it is managed by people that are unelected and hide in the background.

Wkae up and realize that both parties are evil and in the end want the power and control such that the people are nothing more than debt slaves lucky to have an under paying job and service their debts! What's more likely is multiple part time jobs - you'll get the benefits from the gubmint as a by-product of the increased taxes due to the coming austerity (actually alreadu here, increased is the better term). How about services? Soon the gubmint will be using the recently endorsed tax-stick to manage our lives.

Everything will be controlled through these new taxes that will be coming fast and furious (Sorry) you can bet. You want to drive a big SUV, that's fine we'll just penalize you on your taxes. I guess, you can look at cigarettes as the model for this new form of "good for us" taxation where the gubmint can dictate with taxation what we can and cannot enjoy. You like soda, too bad that will cost you. How will they know you ask? Well, I assume everybody here alreasy knows that answer. This is whats coming regardless of the President or the party he comes from, the ability to steal more of our wealth thru taxes is coming but under the guise of "good for us" (I guess everything is afterall).

OK, nuff rambling on that. Let's hope enough people wake up soon so we can actually turn things around, right now there is a still a majority that clings to the current paradigm - a societal paradigm shift is what's required, something the normalcy bias works hard to prevent. How do we accomplish such a task? I do what I can by waking up family and friends, telling them to do the same - pay it forward. Help! Let's work to make this happen, have the discussion - bring up the issues, see what people are thinking.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 22:49 | 2597586 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture


In Germany they put fluoride in beer.


You're showing your ingorance. German beer is the purest you can get. Look it up. I know, I lived there for many years.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:16 | 2596332 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I submit that it's closer to 95%.  The 54% only think that it is almost futile.  So their thinking could be wrong and in any event they aren't very sure.

I am Chumbawamba.

P.S. I don't think the Germans fluoridate their drinking water but they do Zyklon-B their shower water.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:57 | 2596683 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

And Americans do send the cavalry in to slaughter indians.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 19:13 | 2597136 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

And bombers to firestorm a German city,

And bombers to kill 100,000 Nihonjin in one tenth of a second,

To turn them into shadows

Burned onto walls,

And Union soldiers to kill 10,000 Confederates in the time it takes

For a man to run half a mile.

Maybe we should all compare sins.

Do you mean that we are all the same?

We are not.

Americans wanted to be liked.  They believed that they were the good guys.

And therein lies all the difference.

The Wehrmacht never gave away a chocolate bar,

Or caught a flower that a French girl threw.

We will all end up being

What we believe, and hope, that we are.


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:28 | 2596241 anarchitect
anarchitect's picture

Perhaps, but what about the roughly E750 billion owed to Germany under TARGET2?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:24 | 2596510 redguard
redguard's picture

That's AMAZING! The average German knows what futile means. Try that pole in the states.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:14 | 2596208 Ancona
Ancona's picture

All your euros are belong to PIIGS.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:15 | 2596330 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Correction, its PFIIGS now, pronounced figs, the p is silent in this case.

Or you can combine the p and the f into one sound, a skill found abundantly

in New England...

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:29 | 2596358 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Appropriately, there are many "pf" German words, such as pfund and pfister, as in "Vee vill pfund you vith our pfisters!"

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:46 | 2596382 ZeroAvatar
ZeroAvatar's picture

They 'rove you rong time'.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:03 | 2596398 Geronimo66
Geronimo66's picture

PIGGS? What about SOCGEN 800 billion derivative portfolio post credit crisis they could not get rid from even in 2011. Do not know on to day. Anyway nice 1000 billion ESM.

I hope Germany holds her stance firmly and especially Netherlands will take it as rolemodel. We send our PM Rutten to the summit urging him NOT to make any arrangements before the forthcoming elections. A shame the sucker had weak knees.

EU the Dutch have enough to do with their own economy the forth coming days. So clean up your own mess. Good luck!

There is no use in pumping more money into this by eg bailouts. Infact there is not enough money so stop burning please. There is a sliding tendence by the general public regarding EU funding.

EU economy is deteriorated. Let us not deteriorate society.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:14 | 2596212 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture
"How Germans Feel About More European Bailouts"

Proposterous premise. Germans don't feel.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:30 | 2596244 economics9698
economics9698's picture

"Proposterous premise. Germans don't feel. "


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:35 | 2596252 veyron
veyron's picture

They certainly don't feel up little boys ...

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:54 | 2596286 Alpo for Granny
Alpo for Granny's picture

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmnnnnn! You got knocked the fuck out Marchbanks!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:59 | 2596294 Colonial Intent
Colonial Intent's picture


George bernard shaw?

Philistines, the lot o ya!

Tho what he said about germans was not nice so he kinda deserved it.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:05 | 2596311 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Philistines, the lot o ya!

I got knocked the fuck out. And shit.

Tue, 07/10/2012 - 03:34 | 2601307 Gene'sMom
Gene'sMom's picture

Where did I fail in my raising of you?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:53 | 2596282 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Ah Gene, you are so far off-base. You must do much more research

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:15 | 2596215 sampo
sampo's picture

Monti and Rajoy are both scapegoating Finland for the recent developments in their bond yields

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:17 | 2596218 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Too bad they did not include "We should invade Poland ASAP"

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:07 | 2596319 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Or maybe they could invade Afganistan and Iraq, Libya, and Syria to put Saudi Fundamentalists in control of Secular States ? Maybe Germany doesn't get paid by Saudis quite like US Politicians - Hail Carlyle Group

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:23 | 2596346 optimator
optimator's picture

Believe it or not, that radio station at Gleiwitz is still there.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:38 | 2596450 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I understand they play "Lili Marlene" 24/7.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 19:17 | 2597144 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

The weirdest feeling in the world

was hearing that very same song,

but in a different language,

coming from the trenches

on the other side

of No Man's Land.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:21 | 2596226 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Italy and the other pigs are broke and can therefore afford to go for broke. Regardless of what the German people think Germany sees the Euro as her last chance to reassert her empire and will therefore oblige. One more lie, one more trick and all this for just one more day.

If the Euro succeeds in surviving we can all be sure that the resultant system will be a horrific brew and a horrible brood.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:25 | 2596232 flight77
flight77's picture

Before the implementation Germany exported 42% to the EU countries.
Now, the quote is barely 35%. The EU is a sheer nightmare and everything but the basis of a german empire.
The imperialists are sitting in the City of London.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:32 | 2596245 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

You say:

The imperialists are sitting in the City of London.

The article says:

We wonder, however, how Spain, Italy, and France would respond to a question asking them if they are ready to cede their own sovereignty to a German uber-state. If history is any indication, not very favorably.

Only one of you is right.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:51 | 2596277 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Yes but it is Shadow Banking run from The City rather than onshore funds

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:21 | 2596227 flight77
flight77's picture

The Spiegel has long ago lost its credibility. These numbers are a joke. I don´t know anyone who is not afraid about his savings.
People are either angry or fatalist. The basic feeling is: "It stinks. No trust to politicians."

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:26 | 2596235 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

You know, for US citizens, the group is all and they tend to hang out with people of the group...

Quite easy not to know anyone who is not afraid about her savings...

US citizenism at work.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:40 | 2596369 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

"Der Spiegel" is the embodiment of German MSM. It has the highest circulation of any news weekly in Germany around 933000) and is 25.5% owned by the Bertelsmann Group, which is an international media corporation (no 8 worldwide). Source: German Wikipedia entry.
ZH readers should digest that before reaching any conclusions, and ZH should be wary of acting as their mouthpiece.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 16:33 | 2596726 smiler03
smiler03's picture

So you're saying that ZH should never quote:



Chicago Tribune

Financial Times

The Economist

etc etc etc

Mon, 07/09/2012 - 04:34 | 2598061 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Running a survey is not the same as attributing a quote.

Tell me, are you pimping for the MSM??

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:25 | 2596230 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Saving the Euro would be a pyrrhic victory at best for the Germans...

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:25 | 2596233 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I'd imagine the Germans feel about the same way as US citizens.  Pretty much helpless as their gov't does whatever the fuck they want. At least from what I can tell the German courts sound like they might give a rats ass about the constitution.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:26 | 2596236 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

When an expansion scheme reachs the stage of saturation, people at the top of the scheme usually feel rather helpless...

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:50 | 2596276 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Americans are happy. They elected a Messiah in 2008 and will re-elect him in 2012 to bring CHANGE !

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 16:27 | 2596717 shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

He's gonna get it like the other Messiah.

PS: Don't wait for rolling rocks or the Ascension.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:27 | 2596239 mick68
mick68's picture

Reasons people in Europe aren't concerned about the economy:

1)Ignorance of the facts.

2)Are part of the corruption.

3)Have never seen a depression, believe everything will always work out fine.

Italy is finally starting its austerity, albeit slowly, and already there are protests and threats. Wait until 2013 when the plan kicks in hard. Germany will soon find herself deeply affected as other EU countries start making big changes that will inevitably affect Germany's bottom line.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:32 | 2596357 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

4) Short memories

5) Revisionist history

6) Too much inherently destructive American culture

7) LOIC of guilt pointed at the Germans

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:33 | 2596249 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Do you agree that sleeping with dogs will infest your bed with fleas ??

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:44 | 2596253 goforgin
goforgin's picture

Then answer for EU is to get rid of Germany and their National Socialist policies that essentially work like a tax, but without any momentary velocity, for the rest of the Europeans. It's a cancer on Europe: a giant squid sucking out gold teeth out of dead Europeans.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:48 | 2596272 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

If Germany had National Socialist policies everyone would be in clover. It is probably National Socialism that will be the end-result with import controls and self-sufficiency in Europe shutting out Asia. Germany has been suckered into funding a Ponzi Scheme inside Europe for US geopolitical gain - to prop up Greece and Italy and Spain as NATO allies - despite their only resource being low-cost labour with low productivity, now vastly overpriced compared to China. Just look at how Italian shoes and leather goods are being destroyed by China and Spanish agriculture by North Africa.

The whole essence of low wage, low-productivity nations has been destroyed by Euro-Welfarism. It is about as daft as extending Us Social Security and Food Stamps to Mexico


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:53 | 2596279 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It is probably National Socialism that will be the end-result with import controls and self-sufficiency in Europe shutting out Asia.


Self sufficiency in Europe shutting out Asia?

How will a zone of the world that depends so much from imports be able of self sufficiency?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:06 | 2596314 magpie
magpie's picture

You either expand the zone or lower living standards. 

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:10 | 2596323 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah, tough alternative.

Option 2:

Living standards depend on the environment. You know, it is somehow hard and in all cases a waste to try to lower living standards when living in a royal suite.

Option 1: Europe has already a global reach. European supply lines already dip everywhere.

Going to be tough years.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:18 | 2596339 magpie
magpie's picture

2) You can still live in the suite, but all of your belongings and the furniture have been pawned already, also the management is actually holding you hostage.

1) I don't know if this worldwide participation in Eurozonism is very effective and/or voluntary.


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:11 | 2596324 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

EU + Russia = Mackinder Plan

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:19 | 2596343 magpie
magpie's picture

How's the Club Med plan going...

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 13:48 | 2596467 Byte Me
Byte Me's picture

How's the Club Med plan going...

Fine. You can even retire at 53 in some places.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:55 | 2596289 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

It is probably National Socialism that will be the end-result with import controls and self-sufficiency in Europe shutting out Asia.

EU or not that, that was one of the major goals anyway. The idea that we could keep away the monstrosity that is Chimerica just by binding together in a trade union was comic to begin with.

Chimerica consumes all.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:38 | 2596256 risk-reward
risk-reward's picture

What's with the voting today?  When I click an up arrow BOTH the up and down arrows get a vote.......

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:43 | 2596263 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Positive-negative reinforcement feedback loop. Everyones a winner (and loser). What could be more fair in this fucked up world.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:40 | 2596259 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"Germany must fight to save the Euro" = Don't you dare take away my hassle-free uber-cheap vacations to those lovely mediterranean debtor nations or I'll hold my breath 'til I turn blue!!!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:44 | 2596264 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

So you think Club Med offers cheap vacations ? You are super dim ! You understand NOTHING about the Euro. It has made Cklub Med areas of Europe TOO EXPENSIVE - people go to Croatia or Turkey to get away from Euro prices. You clearly have no idea of the costs in Euroland. 75% Germans do not want a European State but that is the only way these politicians are heading.......

The Euro has made Southern Europe UNCOMPETITIVE which is why they cannot sell cheap vacations

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 16:37 | 2596734 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Hear Hear!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:41 | 2596260 TrainWreck1
TrainWreck1's picture

"ALMOST futile"???



Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:46 | 2596267 deez nutz
deez nutz's picture


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 11:50 | 2596275 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Socialist shuffle devolves into the fascist foxtrot.

"Lock & load" just might take the place of the mudshark in your mythology.

The navel gazing lamp is lit.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:04 | 2596306 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

this euro party needs to get raided!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:06 | 2596308 aleph0
aleph0's picture



A) ... don't believe Polls

B) ... are the real  Germans all in France ? :

Frankreich: Grande Finale

 The French fund manager Carmignac lashes out with full-page political Ads in Paris. "Why should they (the Germans) agree to a contribution to the financing of a retirement age of 60 years for France, when they have raised her own retirement age to 67 years?"

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:05 | 2596310 magpie
magpie's picture

The Euro will be defended to the last taxpayer - if that means forced mortgages for the Dutch and 60 % VAT for the Finns, bring it on.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:16 | 2596334 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

The same thing is happening in  the US. California is running staggering deficits and voted to build the high=speed rail ... to get Federal bailout money!

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:33 | 2596362 JR
JR's picture

If the German polls are anything like here, they are really loaded to support the Establishment’s veiled purposes. This poll, then, may barely scratch Fritz Sechspack’s opposition to singlehandedly bailing out Europe.

The main thing you can go by is Der Spiegel itself. It knows how to sell news magazines by playing to the real feelings of its readers; it doesn’t need a poll to maintain its image. There’s no other reason Spiegel Online would come out to acknowledge the people are upset and have drawn the line unless they think it’s imperative to save their reputation.

IOW, you can tell more about what’s going on from your enemies than your friends.

Der Speigel is on the Establishment side, like Time Magazine. For example, if the NY Times finally came out and said the government has gone too far with its security checks, you know that means the people’s feelings are running high and the Times, to appear it’s really a fair news source, is catering to them with their headlines to sell newsprint and legitimacy.

Today’s case is’s airing of Robert Hardaway’s opinion piece on The War on Baby Boomers which should be titled: The War on Savers.  The whole thing is about savers. Hardaway has the figures on how someone who’d retired a number of years ago could keep his nest egg going and how it is now. It’s a hair raiser.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 12:51 | 2596394 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

That's exactly correct. See my and other comment further up re Spiegel as the incarnation of German MSM. The cited poll results are just a lukewarm sop to growing publIc outrage. Just check the online comments section to any German national online newspaper for the real sentiment - they have only just begun censoring those.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:02 | 2596482 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

It would be very interesting to see a demographic breakout of these poll numbers.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:03 | 2596484 chalcedonite
chalcedonite's picture

Stupid survey and comments.  There is so much we don't know and we are never willing to take the mote out of our own eye.  John V. Denson discusses the world-changing events that happened between January and June 1919: disastrous decisions that resulted in creating a platform for Hitler to rise in Germany, the Second World War, and beyond.


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:11 | 2596497 chalcedonite
chalcedonite's picture

This survey stinks because democracy stinks.  We really just have despicable leaders telling despicable lies ... manipulating votes...  and then giving despicable orders in the name of the people that participated in twisted despicable surveys.

 "Strangely...or not...B?sescu's chief rival in government, Prime Minister Ponta, held a press conference today at which he announced that his new "special adviser on security and economic strategy matters" would be none other than retired US General Wesley Clark (!!!), who had a rather different view of the Kosovo situation.

Interestingly enough, as a Romanian publication reports about the seemingly strange new partnership between Clark and Ponta:

Currently Clark is on the board of directors at BNK Petroleum, an oil company of which George Soros acquired a 20 percent stake through his investment fund Quantum Partners LP. While serving as a NATO commander during the conflict in Kosovo, Clark hit the headlines when the commander of the British forces disobeyed his order to open fire on Russian forces massed in front of Pristina. “I am not going to start World War III,” said the British commander. Wesley Clark was removed from the NATO command before the end of his mandate....:

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 14:18 | 2596504 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

69% are concerned about significant inflation, but only

47% believe it will impact their pension!!

That means at least 22% need to better understand the correlation between an imploding bond market and their pension plan, and the 31% who aren't concerned about significant inflation should be even MORE concerned then about significant deflation!    Bottom line 100% should be worried about their pensions.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:00 | 2596567 gratefultraveller
gratefultraveller's picture

Spiegel Online is basically a dog and pony show, you can't trust what most journalists are saying (not even the "facts" they write about). Thankfully many people are waking up to that as day-to-day reality is getting far to ugly to further ignore it.

If you want to get an idea about how people really feel, read the comments in the forum, linked under many articles. Five years ago 98% of the comments used to be pro status quo, with the odd dissenter. Nowadays that ratio has reversed.

Btw, said forum is heavily censored, for many blatantly manipulating articles no forum thread is opened.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:24 | 2596601 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture


Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:09 | 2596580 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

Forget all abou this rubbish: Germans will in the end always agree for a ''European' solution. It means, that they will give advantage to "others". Why: it's the "Erblast"! You will never understand that being not German ( I am not German). Therefore, they will carry it on their shoulders, bis zum bitteren Ende! That is and will always (unfortunately) be their destiny. The Germans (politicians) are not able to open up a new chapter and close the old books.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:27 | 2596607 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

Disagree. May be true for old farts like Schmid, Steinbrock and Screwbli, accompanied in spirit by Kohl in his wheelchair and diapers. Not true for the younger generation whom they are trying to indoctrinate.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:11 | 2596583 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Here's an idea: Germany gives the EU the Bundesbank in exchange for leaving the EU free and clear.

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:38 | 2596636 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

Shall we have a beer together?

Sun, 07/08/2012 - 15:45 | 2596650 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

I thought "strong" leaders such as Bush never care abount pools

Mon, 07/23/2012 - 10:07 | 2642330 Remington IV
Remington IV's picture

The 41% are the Obama lovers

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