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How To Hide Your Gold: A Bloomberg Primer
A world insolvency crisis, a Thermidorian reaction in Egypt, a hard landing in China, the first non-PIIGS nationalized bank... The world is on fire yet despite all of the above (or rather due to) what is the topic of one of the most commented articles on Bloomberg over the past week? Why how to hide one's gold. Bloomberg's Ben Steverman writes: "If you’re looking for a safe place to put your investments, Chad Venzke has a suggestion: Dig a hole in the
ground four feet deep, pack gold and silver in a piece of plastic PVC pipe, seal it, and bury it. Venzke is hardly the only investor who wants his precious metals nearby at all times. A pound of gold worth about $24,000 can easily fit in a pocket; how to protect it is a decision that carries expensive consequences. Do-it-yourself investors who don't trust banks must find creative storage options, whether burying gold in the yard, submerging it in a koi pond, stashing it behind air-conditioning ducts, or placing it under carpets." Indeed, as Venezuela is about to reclaim possession of its tons of gold from UK vaults, even as the Dutch central bank proudly admit to hiding its own gold in precisely the same venues that are no longer good enough even for Chavez, the topic of where one should hide their physical is rapidly becoming a very incendiary. One thing is certain: among the hard core "physical" community, the idea of storing it in the same banking system that would be insolvent once the fiat status quo collapses, is verboten anathema. So what are the options?
[T]here are growing piles of precious metals in, under, or near American homes. From mid-2010 to mid-2011, U.S. investors bought up more than 100 tonnes of physical gold coins and bars, up from 15.2 tonnes in 2007, according to the World Gold Council. (A tonne, or metric ton, is 1,000 kilograms.) Worldwide bar and coin demand rose 37 percent during the mid-2010 to mid-2011 period, according to the Council, even as demand from exchange-traded funds backed by physical gold, and similar products, fell 84 percent.
The notion of keeping one’s gold in a safety deposit box—inside the banks many gold aficionados find so untrustworthy—is anathema to many gold bugs. Venzke, who predicts "runaway inflation" and a crisis leading to a "new form of currency within this decade," worries that the boxes won't be accessible if banks shut down in a crisis. "How are you supposed to get your stuff out of there?" he asks.
For those storing gold and silver in or around their home, the most immediate danger isn’t a crisis or a dip in metal prices. It’s theft. The FBI, which tallies the theft of precious metals and jewelry in one category, says $1.6 billion was stolen in 2010, up 51 percent from 2005. Just 4.2 percent of the lost loot was recovered last year.
Metal detectors are a big worry. Basic detectors can find metal on the surface or in the first 12 inches to 14 inches below ground, depending on soil conditions, says Louis Mahnken Jr., a sales representative for Kellyco Metal Detectors in Winter Springs, Fla. That’s why Venzke advises burying it at least four feet deep. There are online debates about the best way to frustrate such thieves, including using scrap metal as decoys or hiding metal by covering it underground with asbestos or mirrors.
Metal owners also use the "hiding in plain sight" maneuver. According to dealers, some customers buy 100-oz. silver bars, paint them black, and use them as doorstops. That's foolish, says Steven Ellsworth, a coin dealer in Clifton, Va., who teaches security classes for the American Numismatic Assn.
Safes can certainly deter thieves. Yet an inexpensive fire safe may be exactly the wrong place to put your valuables. Richard Krasilovsky, president of Empire Safe, calls such safes "handy carrying cases for burglars." A fire safe is designed to protect papers from fire, not from intruders, says Ryan Smith, a senior product manager at SentrySafe. "It wouldn’t be wise to put any more than $20,000 of valuables in our products," he says.
Yet, as many of the more pragmatic survivalists have pointed out, in a game of rock, gold or lead, it is the latter that usually wins:
[W]hether gold is buried, put in a safe, or hidden under your bed, there’s nothing to stop a determined person with a gun from making you show them where you put it. That’s why it’s important no one ever know you have gold in the first place. Krasilovsky’s company will deliver safes in the middle of the night, installing them where no one, including a contractor, is likely to stumble across them.
"People have to be extraordinarily secretive," Krasilovsky says. This secrecy keeps away not only thieves but also prying relatives and the tax man. "One of the benefits of owning precious metals is nobody knows you own it," Venzke says. "It’s the most private investment you can make."
Unless, of course, you feel compelled to post youtube videos sharing insights about where to stash your gold.
So, without posting videos of their personal explots in this matter, we querry Zero Hedge readers, many of whom are certainly not in the pro-fiat camp, to share their perspectives on what in their view is the best storage place for the one true currency.
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sold it all to raise cash. didnt get reciepts.
The tax man makes the rules of taxation. That is why we all hate the tax man.
I would recommend EVERYONE keep reciepts the chose to lose them should it be to your advantage. However, if the rules are written such that not having them costs you more, you have them.
Regards,
Cooter
We also hate him because he assumes we are guilty of something, no pesky innocent until proven guilty with the IRS. Also when his laser-like focus comes upon you the burden of proof of your innocence is on you and what constitutes proof to the taxman is so onerous most will just end up paying to get out from under. That is where I am now. If I could afford a lawyer and take it to court the IRS would be laughed out of any judges chambers on the first day, but the IRS knows just who can and who cannot afford to go to court with them. That is why the vast majority of audits are on lower to middle class taxpayers with out of court settlements and time payments. The rich rarely have any issues with the IRS.
You know, it's actually pretty easy to rid yourself of the parasitic IRS.
But first, trivia: did you know not a dime of your federal income tax payment goes to the government? The IRS is a private collection agency for the Federal Reserve. Your tax payments go to the Federal Reserve banks. When you sign a W4, or file a 1040, you are entering into a contract with the IRS to volunteer your tax payment. The contact expires after a year, which is why you need to fill one out anew every year.
Go to YouTube and seek out "bill thornton show me the law". Learn.
For complete salvation, go to:
http://1215.org
If the IRS ever comes after you legally, you open a court of record in state court in your sovereign capacity and challenge the jurisdiction of the IRS. They will not be able to overcome your challenge and will be forced to drop their case. The knowledge is at the above link, but you must be committed to learning.
There is another remedy in the Errant Sovereign's Handbook. Seek it out. It's easy to find.
I am Chumbawamba,
Um hunh, and do you Chumba know how many honest men and women are in our prison system for no better reason than they honestly do not think the IRS is a legitimate operation of government? Every person that ever went into a courtroom refusing to accept the authority of the IRS has ended up in jail. I usually respect your posts, but I fear the above is not one of your all time golden hits. Still, I do not down arrow for opinion alone.
It was stolen.
As a useful diversion against metal detectors, take a [heavy] nail gun and waste a few strings into the ground, especially where a wood fence line is or may have been. Nothing like wasting time digging to deter wouldbees.
You're much better off salting with non-ferrous metal, since metal detectors can discriminate between ferrous and non-ferrous (gold, or brass or aluminum.)
So instead of nails, chunks of copper pipe, old brass and old aluminum cans would work better.
Also, metal detectors usually have terrible shielding on top of the search coil. So if the path of least resistant in the search puts metal above the coil, such as burying the cache below a metal fence gate, for example, it can really screw with the sensitivity.
With the caveat that most people don't have a back yard full of junk metal crap.
Regards,
Cooter
gold teef, bitchez!
What? Did you get a C- in ebonics PAF? We all know it is TEEFS. Unless you mean to refer to a single TEEF. Nothing personal, just trying to help.
This is so stupid, just buy a safe with a trigger that goes on when you enter a specific code into your safe. This will turn on a force field around you and your safe while it ignites fire everywhere outside of it.
Bet you that my force field is better than yours.
Best post
Mine doesn't have a force field. Too complicated. I just use a simple plain old Claymore.
I have a Claymore also attached to my front and rear bumbers, just in case I get caught driving when TSHTF.
Semper Fi.....
My Grandfather used to hide silver coins in the chest freezer. And yes, nobody knew he had them until after he died. My Uncle has them now. I'm not sure where he has them stashed. Hopefully, not in a safe deposit box.
Check his chest freezer the next time you go over for a visit.
-Chumblez.
terrible boating accident... Took guns ammo and gold... :(
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matt 6:19-20...
Thanks. Matthew is my favorite book. I forgot about that one.
But you don't have to worry about rust destroying your gold...
Question - Why is an Illuminati avatar quoting scriptures in such a way as to discourage PM ownership? Feel free to talk amongst yourselves.
many people dont know this, but Jesus counseled people to buy gold from him.. tax free transaction, zero risk of theft or government confiscation...
"Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich... As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." rev 3:17-21
Hmmm. Using scripture to scare people is not nice. Thanks for answering my question. Did anyone tell you its not Halloween for another 21 days?
If anyone is interested, take a gander at Luke 4:3-13, for a demonstration of how Satan used scripture, taken out of context, to tempt Jesus.
People, adults, who seriously believe in the easter bunny, santa claus, the tooth fairy, leprechauns, astrology, and ghosts, any or all of them you take to be silly at best, possibly nuts, and yet with infallible self righteous seriousness quote the bible and claim there is this invisible god dude running the whole enchilada from some throne in a place you call heaven, and you really think others should take you seriously? By the way, if you are right and that book is filled with bizarre facts of how the universe really operates then I have to say I STILL have no intention of being a follower of the sick fucks described in the bible.
Boilerman - this is God talking. I want to roast the rich fucks in hell, and you want to boil them. Since we have a common goal, can't we all just get along?
JTK, do you know what the punishment is for impersonating god? And do I have to point out that while you (if indeed you are you) have had the power to roast those bastards in hell for some 6,000 years (since the Earth was created according to your most ardent followers) I on the other hand can only WISH for roasting or boiling, and I am getting pretty YOUdamned tired of waiting. Get off your lazy ass and fix this shit already OK?
I'm workin on it. Problem is that its a pretty "target-rich" environment, and I wouldn't want to hurt ANY of the "non-boilables," many of whom have close relationships with the "boilables." You know, its a "tares and the wheat" kind of thing. You're gonna have to trust me on this one a little longer. When it finally comes, it will be memorable barbeque for the eons. You might want to talk to me in the near future about that abestos suit you and everyone else is gonna need- I don't believe I have your request in yet. A geiger counter comes free with every suit.
Dude, we gotta meet.
My name is Jesus and I counsel you to buy gold for me.
Or, wait...
What do you mean my pills? Took 'em last 4 days I think.
Its ok, Zippy. You can go back to bed now.
woooops-
More New Testament
"And they entered the house and saw The Boy with Maryam his mother, and they fell and worshiped him and opened their treasures and offered him gifts: gold, myrrh, and frankincense." Matthew 2:11
Because the Illuminati are benevolent.
stock your lair with cases of 7.62 x 39 and several AKs
therein lies the truth the way and the light
Dave 1.1
Community is the greatest asset anyone can every invest in ... I am all over that like stink on shit. I love my little community up here in AK for exactly this reason. On this note, Anchorage is rough, but the small towns in AK are a wonderful experience.
I need to get a PT job to pay for my divorce (prior to my reolocation - I am set once I am paid up). Once I get a handle on this, with winter coming up, I pland to read and start donating time to local businesses for web site development/marketing. I just want to horse trade for fishing/hunting. Already got a local venue picked out to solicit business, just need to get the extra pay coming in the door.
I had my ducks in a row before this but my ex shot 'em!
Regards,
Cooter
“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matt 6:19-20
Excellent taken in context of what HE meant.
How about the casting of your Bread onto the waters in seven portions ,that it may return to you.
"In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has." Proverbs 21:20
There is only one truly safe place to hide your valuables.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngBtoylIVM
Are you suggesting that I hide my gold up your ass?
He's encouraging hoarding. It's hard to manipulate a market with high liquidity. That doesn't mean you shouldn't hoard PMs but if everybody does it that's not good for you if you're holding. They are trying their damnest to crash and burn PMs.
Correction: "they" are trying to hold a beach ball underwater a specific sea level while the tide comes rolling in to maintain the status quo. When the beach ball cuts loose, its going to be a show!
My PMs will revalue on my balance sheet when the system goes tits up. If the system doesn't go tits up, I got a job and I will do OK. PMs are insurance against collapse for the little guy.
I don't expect (or want) to get paid on this adventure, but I must get paid if I am going to survive certain outcomes.
Regards,
Cooter
If 'everybody' is hoarding gold then it means people are accepting it as a store of value. Sounds good to me.
http://www.survivalblog.com/storage-spaces/
Page down and learn how to properly hide your cache. Metal detectors and equipment can still find some of these, so plan accordingly.
how does someone give the above a -1? Fuck I hate people.
Well, if you want to know...
You can stash stuff the way the homeless vets say they cache items
Step 1. Go to a bakery and get 4 or 5 two gallon icing buckets...for free!
Step 2. Put precious items in 1 bucket, seal with duct tape, bury in ground.
Step 3. Find 3 or 4 dead small animals ( roadkill), put 1 in each of remaining bucket, add hand full of washers, and some water. Duct tape REAL GOOD, bury in ground around bucket #1.
If some poor sucker digs one of the BAD buckets, espeasally after 2or 3 months, I don't think hell be looking any other buckets....
They also use the bad buckets for people or things who piss them off...
Yeah, these guys play rough, too rough for me to think about getting on their BAD side...
FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY!
Well, that's one they use...
A wise man once told me that when digging a hole most people stop when they find a dead horse. Ok, so it was about hiding a body but it applies to PMs too.
So, dig a hole, put in PM, cover with dead things. A horse would cover a lot of PM.
You can buy containers that appear to be cans of soda or household products.
My favorite is the can of Scotch Guard. Bottom unsrews. Fill with packing foam so your coins don't jingle.
Multiple locations in geographically separate areas all under immediate control. The odds of someone getting one stash are pretty low if it's hidden correctly, the odds of hitting even half of them are infintesimal. This works in most situations, even if you have to get out of dodge, assuming one of the other places is a destination.
Either have more than one safe, one of which is well hidden, or if you only have one, PMs don't go there.
It helps to look poor or like there's nothing valuable, my bet is crooks would be far more likely to try to force open a safe in a $2M house with a ferrari in the driveway than they would dig with a shovel under a single-wide.
Oh, and silver is much harder to hide than gold, that shit is bulky.
I hide mine at YOUR house!
Use a diversion safe as well.
If one is going to bury PMs in their yard, and I don't recommend this, use a post hole digger and dig a LOT of holes... place various metal junk in the holes and refill with dirt.
Anyone looking for PMs would have to spend a lot of time and effort to find a bunch of junk metal. Perhaps they would get discouraged cause using a post hole digger isn't light labor.
Just a thought.
In the movies, the bad guys always make their victims do the digging, the final hole being a grave. Although I'm not the violent type, I think shooting the fuckers until they're completely dead is the best solution.
In your childtrn's rooms among their shit. Bad guys dont look there. If you dont hasn't kids who's room to hide your gold, then buy a couple for cover.
Good idea until your children find them and give to friends...
"Oh, THOSE silly yellow coins, Daddy? The nice man at the shop gave me ice creams for them"
I'm home and unemployed...24 hour security now with AR-15...actually, no safe needed.
Sure, tell everybody on a blog how you hide it...Like Barnum said, there's one born every minute.
The most obvious answer is :
nunya phukin bizness
I hide mine under my mattress. I keep a spare key under the doormat and I'm going on vacation next week.
Really.
Oh and here is my mother's maiden name, my SS#, and a list of my fears.
I keep mine in the Rhinoceros...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7LrMoLba0c
Funny how nobody ever has to worry about "hiding" AAPL, LULU, or CMG stock.
Owning gold is a pain in the ass. I'd just keep it in a safe deposit box with a small community bank or something, buried under some important papers.
I love how you are absolutely ignorant of any and all history.
Not to put a target on my back, but I did what Robo suggested; I researched a local bank (www.bankregdata.com - note the page limit in the upper left corner tracked by IP) that had a solid balance sheet (1+ Billion in assets), opened a safe deposit box, and stuffed that fucker.
There is a point in society where folks have to accept their plans to "win" are compromised by government; government makes the rules, enforces the rules, and you pretty much cant win when government decides to stuff your colon open like a xmas turkey. When banks can loot safe deposit boxes with abandon, realize what else is going on across the board; its game over. Unless you are always 100% cash at a local coin dealer for all transactions, you could be on a list. All those recent actions against citizens who are "terrorists" are just precedents for you and extorting your resources to fund the machine. Should government want to coerce the situation by force, they can simply put the hammer down on all sales and demand reciepts of purchase (so they can tax) and assume a really low value in absense of. The tax man is hated for a reason; you cant avoid the tax man.
When government wants to confiscate, there will be no out. So vote accordingly. And get a safe deposit box at a good bank.
And you still owe me a response Robo.
Regards,
Cooter
EDIT: Robo, my question is here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/paulsons-biggest-fund-cut-half#comment-1752233
You need to read this CrazyCooter.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4832471&page=1
Sheesh. No wonder you guy like guns - that's fckg dsgusting Hulk.
gmail me at my name freebird for blog link.
Hey Do, give me a chance - still haven't unpacked from Lima ;)
Yes
Hey Do, give me a chance - still haven't unpacked from Lima ;)
No
Hey Do, give me a chance - still haven't unpacked from Lima ;)
Maybe so..
Lol, negated the ability to edit...
Is this ZH telling me to get PM security advice from ABC Good Morning America?
Is this the SAME ABC Good Morning American telling me to buy gold?
Think carefully before responding.
Regards,
Cooter
But Cooter, that ABC article higlights a serious abuse of powwer... That was the point no
When the government opts to confiscate, through taxation, through whatever, PMs will not be a safe haven.
Roll with me here. I am 100% face value on this topic. I put a lot of time thinking about this and I would love to hear a counter argument I haven't considered. Please be constructive and detailed in rebuttals (for my benefit if no one else's). To compliment that request, spare me the go-fuck-yourself +1 seeking arrogant crap.
Ok, scenario on ...
Lets say you bought some gold at X price. Things go south and a few years later gold is 42x (i.e. 42 times what you paid for it). You gold was safe hidden in your house (taped to the bottom of a copper hot water pipe in your basement wrapped in the crazy aluminum insulated foil tape stuff).
You go to sell it, because you need cash to pay off your house and your 30 acres of land. Pay day!
When you go to sell, the tax man is now present, by coercive force of the government. The rule is now you must PROVE you bought at a price to avoid taxation, otherwise the price is assumed to by .25x. For the sake of this scenario, you are not going to get a guy down the street to pay 42x without covering his tax ass and having proof of purchase (which puts you on the tax hook). Maybe in barter, but the tax problem doesn't go away; the receiver still has to sit until the tax demand dissolves.
Let us say the tax demand is 65% of profits.
Government doesn't need PHYSICAL position of your bullion; they only need LEGAL authority over your finances (and thus your life). That legal authority exists today. The result is that you can not sell your gold and claim your profits without the tax man being involved.
This is what will happen, if it happens. So this crazy shit about putting your gold in the septic tank (best idea ever - non-corrosive retrieval cord from a receptacle that can not get pumped) to cheat the government is complete non-sense. The government owns your ass, so stop pretending otherwise. It owns your ass by virtue of food access, security, energy distribution, highways, taxation, and pretty much every other aspect of your life. Unless you are REALLY living in the bush, providing 100% of your calories, 100% of your security, and 100% of your product inputs (guns/ammo/clothing/etc) you are on the hook for government services. If not directly, then indirectly by virtue of your community.
Stop pretending you are a John Wayne solo bad ass and accept you are a team member who is part of a team that lives or perishes with the team.
That is the problem with folks who think they are outside the system; you are not. Trust me, I live in a small town in rural Alaska many miles from the nearest other town. The local foot ball team has to raise money (outside the school budget) to play another team; they have to take a boat to compete with the next town. Suck it up asshole, the government has you by the fucking balls and no amount of bravado changes that reality.
Assuming this "worst" outcome, the only way this pays off is in a total recapitulation of the government (revolution - whatever). You may grow old and die with your savings lost in that situation.
My conclusion, with this in mind, is that the government doesn't need to rape safe deposit boxes, which by the way means drilling every one of them across the USA to access the contents. On that note, thinking independently, do you realize how many incriminating photos of present and former congress-folks will show up along with god knows what else?
The risk is not necessary; Congress just needs to pass some IRS tax laws and its done. If you don't play along, per the new rules, government will own your ass and throw you in jail (or work camps) if you fail to comply with whatever rules they pass.
Get over yourself and accept this. Your best options are (1) high tail it to a community you can believe in and needs you and (2) vote for leader(s) who wont whore your ass out.
Seeking constructive input tot he contrary!
Regards,
Cooter
P.S. The only exception I see to this is a states rights issue where states establish a role of PM money as legal tender; that fucks up the IRS. But I am not a lawyer and I sense that issue is far more complicated than it seems. My old man (former auditor for the State of Texas Railroad Commission won a long running fight with the IRS - he was damn proud - that tells me I don't wanna fuck with those bastards).
R U Hi CC ???
"Seeking constructive input to the contrary!"
This IRS rule would amount to an unconstitutional <I>ex post facto</i> law (FWIW).
I think the gov't. would hesitate to enact such a tax, knowing that it would be something that some constitutionalists would interpret such a measure as de-legitimizing the gov't. and justifying disobedience--and more.
They can, and have, siezed citizens' gold. 1933, FDR, look it up. Yes, they paid the full 'going' paper rate for it... and then devalued the dollar by 69%. So it was like an immediate, 69% tax.
Of course, it was different then - gold was money, but most people carried currency rather than specie, so all the government had to do was seize the banks' vaults' contents, and bing! They had at least 95% of citizens' gold.
It would be a lot harder today. And, in my opinion, unnecessary, for the same reason - most of the gold is already in the system, and winkling the remaining amounts out of their citizens would involve a lot of work and gunfire.
I am pointing out that no one told me this is a complete and total bull shit fantasy on ZH. Now is your chance to tell me (1) its BS and (2) here is why.
In absence of a good rebuttal, get a safe deposit box at a well funded bank and chill out.
Regards,
Cooter
CAVEAT: I keep 25% of my goodies (ag/au mix) external, just because I am paranoid. I fear the tax man, I don't fear anything else.
There is a way, but this is not the arena to discuss it...
100% correct. If the government has a hold over your person (physical body) or your family's, they can enforce their rules (whatever those might be). Your stash will be worthless if you can't get to it, and exchange it for whatever you like to get for it. Look at the example of the jews who put their gold and valuables in swiss vaults before the second world war, but remained in europe.
So.. you either overthrow the oppressive government, or you get the hell out of there, live in a place where the long arm doesn't reach. There is NO alternative. Handguns won't help because divided they'll just pick you off one by one.
At some point in the near future (after the next "incident") travelling will be prohibited, save for those that are "inside" the system. You won't make it to that vault if not. Are you inside their system? Part of their intended future? Can you make them think that you are?
You'll be labelled a criminal http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-313
or terrorist http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/10/08/homeland-security-moves-forwar...
And then they'll just take you out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqgJM35yL-E
"Invisible" is the best short term defence, if you can't change the USA from the police state it's now becoming. Sorry for the down to earth dismissal of fantasies that precious metals alone will guarantee your wealth, or even survival. For this "fungible money" to have any value in your society, you need to go on the offence, against forces that plot against you (which is not a fantasy), or become part of another group of individuals (outside of N-America), and pledge your allegiance there. Or become part of the "system" of course.
Things are moving faster now.. tick tock
Sort of what s/he said ...
Folks, the reality is that "money" is not about the people, it is about a "decree" of a government. The illusion that this "property" is "yours" is an illusion. This notion that land is yours is an illusion; the land is the property of any body that can tax the land into oblivion.
When I was Tea Party in Texas, this was the central theme of Medina. That fucking scum bag Beck hung her out to dry. If you can't own your land, free and clear, without incessant taxes you are a serf. Prepare accordingly.
I do think there is a peaceful path forward. OWS is the same thing that the Tea Party was on the right. I hope that 80% of American can come together and realize they need to bring fraud to justice. This is our path forward. The money changers must be cast out. The working folks of this nation must be allowed to carry on.
Regards,
Cooter
quite the head-shaker, that article - yet, I'll admit to not being surprised, sigh.
Local coin dealers can be great, but I like coin shows. We have six a year in driving distance. Sometimes with 100 or 200 tables. Buy some from each of a few dealers for cash. If you ant to buy a monster box (500 silver 1 oz) then buy $5000 gold at a few tables and trade for the box. No $10,000 cash reporting.
I agree to a point in that FDR did confiscate, or at least render the regular citizen unable to "hoard" or own precious metals in quantities greater than acceptable to the bean counters in government ( unless you're a coin collector or close personal friend of the President ).
That being said, eventually that changed and the public was once again able to own those items once more.
Sure it took many years, but the point is my kids and grandchildren will have a sizable amount of money ( or whatever passes for money ) in the distant future.
So, even if that were to happen, there is still reasons to own physical, keep it off the grid, and out of your banks greasy mitts.
So hide it wherever, it's all psyops, do thieves or the taxmen think you still have it even if they had sales receipts from online dealers. They walk into the house and hold a gun or warrant up to you, well you, glassy eyed and smelling of your alcohol of choice, take a swig before you answer the door. Have a trash can overflowing with empty beer cans, and make sure you got a crack pipe sittin on your desk. Just incoherently mumble and ask if you can borrow a twenty from them cause you're really hurting here.
Hello, robo,
How are you...
1. People don't worry about hiding stocks because there paper, and paper won't be worth much in the near future...
2. You are right about one thing, holding on to your PM's is a pain, espeassally when you have institutions like the British government cutting open safety deposit boxes and confiscating gold from law abiding citizens without said citizens being charged with a crime...
And if holding gold is a bad idea, robo, then why do all debts to the IMF and BIS have to be repayed in gold....
Well?
No banks are safe. If comes time you need it, you won't be able to get.
Owning gold is a pain in the ass.
*******
Yes it is and what's a bigger pain in the ass is "having" to own it-
Robo... anybody admitting to owning that shit should be mighty embarassed. Like caught fingering their prostse in public.
So they hide the fucking statements.
How are our investments doing, honey?
Oh, just grand, doll babes, just fucking grand. (and then to change the topic real quick) Hey, now about that blow job you been twanting to give me...
In a milk carton!
then there are shares of gold mining companies.
then there are shares of gold mining companies.
Also there is a thing called nationalization.
I see that some of you keep yours behind the mirror in other dimensions.
So, you don't think Narnia is safe?
The lion will take care of it.
I believe it was Jeff Cooper who pointed out: "owning a gun doesn't make you armed, anymore than owning a piano makes you a musician".
The best policy is to appear to have no money and no guns.
"The best policy is to appear to have no money and no guns."
Sun Tzu couldn't have said it better.
In the horse shit pile.
Just hide the gold around your neck in a little bag. And also have another fake bag of gold around your neck, to give to people who know about you gold bag and try to steal it.
Under the fluffy insulation in the atic.
Put all your PM's into low earth orbit. Will be able to climb the mountains of fiat paper to get them back before this is all over.
depends how much gold you got - buy a used car, stuff it into the engine (cylinders, oil pan, etc.) and dont drive it.
What's a PM??
In physical form it is a means to maintain ones wealth in the face of currency debasement.
In paper form it is a means to cleanse ones ass after defecation.
Precious metal
The answer in one acronym: GPS.
No, not the automobile kind, one of the aircraft or vessel types that displays longitude, latitude and altitude. Find extremely remote places in the boonies, bury your stash 1 to 3 meters deep in extremely well sealed pipes or containers, then write down the coordinates in some other misleading format (a series of telephone numbers, a series of social-security numbers, a series of car VIN numbers, a series of insurance policy numbers, whatever works for you - and write the digits in reverse order too, and/or offset the digits by the first n primes, or whatever you will surely remember but nobody else could ever guess).
Leave half the information required to find your loot with one trusted friend, or better yet arrange for the information to be delivered upon your death. Arrange for another trusted friend to get the other half of the information required to find your loot upon your death. Neither should know or expect anything before then, and most importantly neither should know each other, or even know of each other.
Trust no one... because you can't in the world of today, no matter how much you think you can.
Out of sight, out of mind WORKS. Corporations most certainly do not work. Individual humans rarely work, and cannot be depended upon to work.
Those boonies may end up being as a strip mining coal area.
If the shit REALLY hits the fan, GPS will stop working. It relies on a web of satellites funded by the military... of course, it could be operational for a number of years until the satellites stop working. But for all I know, the satellites might rely on regular transmitted adjustments from the earth to stay accurate.
Anyone know any different?
GPS is a key strategic asset for the military. Hard to believe they would let it fail
"GPS Shutdown" means turning off the C/A signal used by the civil community, but leaving
the encrypted P(Y) codes on the L1 and L2 carriers turned on for military (and other authorized users) uninterrupted.
A long time ago it was necessary for military receiver to use the C/A code in the process of acquiring P(Y) signals. This is no longer the case... And the new M-codes on launched beginning in 2005 contribute to making this "easier".
Here are two ways around that. First, choose some visible, but completely non-obvious markers. For example, this could be a certain shape or color rock "exactly 10 meters south" of your stash (or perhaps with initials carved in). You can always find the general location within 100 meters or so via non-GPS means, then search for your non-obvious marker, then pace some number of meters in some specific direction, and you have located your stash. To be ultra safe, have 3 or 4 markers, just in case one gets moved or destroyed somehow.
If all else fails, there are still old-style "benchmarks" (if I remember the terms correctly) that were placed in the ground decades ago. Given that and some basic survey equipment, you can locate your stash.
But congrats - everyone SHOULD think of ways "my plan might go wrong" and prepare a couple alternate ways to find their stash. Just be absolutely certain none of these ways looks suspicious in any way, and never put the markers directly over your stash. Digging 3 meters down everywhere within 100 meters of any location in the desert is an enormous, impractical undertaking!
Pretty Milf
We actually wrapped them tightly in tin foil and painted them to look like a standard brick, than built a planter out the back door 3 high and 11 round, in a "U" shape, put dirt inside the planter and a small plant :) it's in a place on the patio where it won't get stepped on or kicked, we water the plant and see it every day, as do guests who have NEVER even looked twice.
Invest in metal detectors...
Complicating considerations...
1. Gold shouldn't be hidden so well it's hard to get to when you need it.
2. It shouldn't be hidden in large quantities, because you probably won't need it all at once, just a little at a time. if you keep going back to the same place over and over again, someone is bound to notice.
3. Dispersing one's hiding places also makes it less likely that all one's gold will get kyped at once. Another advantage is that if someone decides it will be good fun to torture you with a hot road flare until you tell them where your gold is, you only have to tell him/her abut one of your stashes. Then you can dig up some of the rest to pay the doctor.
4. The downside to lots of hiding spots is that you might forget some of them, and that you increase the liklihood that someone else will find some of your gold.
5.Aside from such practical considerations, there is the Big Thief to worry about, the government. If you purchased your gold through some traceable transaction, eventually the Confiscation Police will be asking you where your gold is. If you can't account for it, then it's off to Club Fed for your 700 calorie a day gulag slimming and toning exercises. A lot of good your gold will do you then.
6. Once people know you have gold, and that you are willing to exchange it for food and other neccessary items, the prices you will be charged will approximate your desperation. Sure, I can sell you a loaf of bread.. that will be one krugerand, (or five), please! So, it will be stolen from you, one way or another.
It might be best to lay up one's treasures somewhere else entirely....high, and out of reach, as it were...
Brink's Salt Lake City
Via Mat Miami
First State Depository
Cube Global Storage Canada
Brink's Hong Kong
Via Mat New York
Via Mat Frankfurt
Via Mat Zurich
etc:
http://everhedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/silver-and-gold-vault-storage-opti...
http://goldsilver.com/article/the-benefits-of-a-segregated-gold-vault-ac...
Unkle Knukles Home Precious Metals Storage Faciltiy Thing.
You'll even get a bonafide reciept from me..
Brink's Salt Lake City
Via Mat Miami
First State Depository
Cube Global Storage Canada
Brink's Hong Kong
Via Mat New York
Via Mat Frankfurt
Via Mat Zurich
etc:
http://everhedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/silver-and-gold-vault-storage-opti...
http://goldsilver.com/article/the-benefits-of-a-segregated-gold-vault-ac...
The paranoid voice tells me not to post here but in the interest of trying to give a good suggestion these are my 2 hiding places:
1) in the oven; I bet no thief has ever looked there for anything, not even for a pot roast
2) behind the pots in the cupboard
Lots of distracting metal and who looks there for places to hide valuables. Also, a good idea is to put it in small a fire resistant boxes.
Here's a new one. Inside a fire extinguisher, with tightly packed cushioning to prevent noise if shaken. Few thieves or gov't. agents would think to look inside one--or know how to do so safely.
I recently learned that home fire extinguishers can be decommissioned (for safe disposal) by SLOWLY unscrewing the plastic top until the nitrogen inside starts to hiss out. Just let it hiss until it's all gone, then undo all the way and shake out the powder.
However, the narrow necks on these devices means they will accept only fractional gold coins--small fractions. (But that's another reason why thieves won't look there.)
If they didn't they will now.You've just educated them .You don't think they don't read this blog ? ?
If you live in the country and you want ultimate security for the _long term_ part of your gold stock, open the valve to your septic tank and drop it in. This will keep you from selling it until it's absolutely necessary, and will deter all but the most determined thieves.
Right, till you go on vacation or otherwise out of the country for a bit and the tank overflows so your house sitter has to call a septic service to come empty it. Or you just forgot you put it down there till you see the truck driving away. Though if it were in a container too large to get sucked up the cleanout pipe it would stay pretty secure I guess. Just as long as it is not one of those fiberglass tanks shaped like a submarine, those are known to pop out of the ground and float away in floods. This is the best suggestion so far, but it is still not perfect. I think I would have it rigged so that there was a discreet line secured near the cleanout hole you could catch with a hook, no way am I going into one of those tanks to feel around for a cache.
First off, I hide my lead in little brass casings........
If I was so inclined. In a limestone cliff where Diamondback Rattlers like come out of their dens in the cracks and sun. even kinda hard to make an additional deposit........... gotta be on your toes, especially on a hot day when they get an attitude.
Hide?! Silence is golden and has a silver lining.
While I agree with getting your PMs out of harms way, Shokdee's answer is of course the easiest and probably by far the most effective.
Dont brag about your shit. Keep your stupid mouth shut.
Informing people about how they can protect themselved with the barberous relic is one thing. Telling the guy you have 150lbs. of Pamp Suisse bars in your nightstand is quite another.
Youd be amazed how many people slip in this regard and place themselves in the worst of situations.
I'm a bit surprised how many people spilled the beans here. All the FBI (or a decent hacker) has to do is illegally look up your IP address and they've got your gold.
Me too. But I'm sure we're all using proxy servers to hide our true IP.
Or, they put a gun, or supeana, to Tyler's head and get your email address, and track you down from there. You didn't use your real addy when you signed up, did you?
stupid double post
HAHAHAHA! Then they'll think I hide my gold in Bulgaria!
I'm a bit surprised how many people spilled the beans here. All the FBI (or a decent hacker) has to do is illegally look up your IP address and they've got your gold.
Yeah, but they still have to past 900rpm....................and that's a bitch.(if you have any)
Some folks have gotten the 900rpm treatment for simply being at thje wrong address,and entering uninvited.
confiscate? lol
i will opt out
www.bullionvault.com
www.bullionvault.com
No workee,unless you have a LOT of metals, or just want repayment in frns.
READ the fine print, not any better than MOST ETF's.
All these So called phys storage folks, are taking folks to the cleaners, unless you are loaded.
Make sure to read the entire Contracts, before thinking you own PM'so if they go belly up, your not considered a principal.(hello Lawsuit).
There is no freaking way the government will have enough workers to search every house or every post on Internet to find gold and silver in houses or condos or cars or back yeards....... Just keep your pm safe from burglaries. By keeping it away from banks, you did your part protecting your self from government. And if you start hearing or reading about government searching houses for pm, then act accordingly by having back up plan. which is crazy to even think that could happen
Also government can get you when you sell your gold to undercover. just to think about something. If it gets really bad, then i don't think gold or silver will buy you food. Guns will do that.
I've decided to diversify my stash between GoldMoney, "In plain sight" where noone in their right mind would ever store anything of value (ever) and "Whoops, it fell overboard. Again. It's like third time this month. Maybe I'm developing Parkinsons? *shrug*" Just to be on the safe side I also developed a decoy stash that's not so hard to find and maintains enought value as to appear real.
One word: magnets.
A few quick notes from a former burglar-alarm salesman - hey, I was young & hungry - who once had a cop in the family.
1) Everybody above is right: If you keep your mouth SHUT, no one knows to go looking for it.The first rule of Gold Club is You do not talk about Gold Club.
2) The *second* rule of Gold Club is, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT GOLD CLUB.
3) The former cop in the family agrees: "We catch about 80% of the dirtbags because they brag about it."
4) If you're robbed by some random jerkoff looking for a cheap score, *Do Not Hide Your Metals in The Master Bedroom!!* a) that's where they look first b) there are some crews - including a famous one in Phoenix - who broke/cut windows (Thus no sensor triggered) into high-end master bedrooms, and burgled ONLY the MB. ALWAYS lots of jewels, TV's and guns in an MB. Never even went into the rest of the house. Why? Because *Nobody has a motion sensor in the MB*, that's why.
5) If they DO go into the house, they WILL look in the freezer, toilets and dump the bookshelves. So forget about those.
6) If they're Pros with a lot of time or with the USG, they WILL find your goodies. Period. So if you're worried about that, I suggest you read J.J. Luna and start getting creative and invisible. WWJPM do? WWTDD? Step 1 would be, "Create a corporate/LLC facade(s) that can't be connected to you. Then hide your goodies under the cover of that shield."
Best of luck to all.
I agree with Cooter and maybe we're both crazy but my biggest fear is and always has been the United States government. I took all of my gold bullion overseas and it is in a safe deposit box in a bank. What I have bought since has been only Double Eagles and St. Gaudens. I will take them too next year if the laws are not changed to stop me. Just remember to fill out the government form that you are taking more then $10,000 dollars out of the country.
No gold dealer in Hong Kong, Singapore etc will care what passport I have. If they do my foreign born non US citizen wife will be selling them.
Why hasnt anyone adressed the irony of popping something that came from a hole into another hole? Also the assumption that gold is worth anything at all is purely fiduciary, and has little base. In case of a complete (financial) apocalypse i would rather have drugs and sigarretes; inelastic and always in demand.
"dust in the wind, all we are is dust in the wind"
so true, so true (putting my lighter in the air with a hundred thousand other space tards)
Why hasnt anyone adressed the irony of popping something that came from a hole into another hole? Also the assumption that gold is worth anything at all is purely fiduciary, and has little base. In case of a complete (financial) apocalypse i would rather have drugs and sigarretes; inelastic and always in demand.
A gold bug told me something similar. He said attach your gold to the wall under the sink in the kitchen or bathroom and cut a piece of dry wall to put over it.
The gold at Fort Knox is protected by some of the tightest security in the world, but what if there's nothing there to guard at all? Brad and his team investigate a rumor that some think could damage the American economy.
http://www.history.com/shows/brad-meltzers-decoded/videos/playlists/seas...
many interior doors are hollow, you can cut a slot in the top of them an inch wide and 4 in long. you can put itms in bags or something attaching the bags to fish hooks on fish line dropping them down in the door from the top. tie the line at the top.
How to hide your gold:
Invest in duct tape.
well, silver you could dissolve in nitric acid and store it in a pond in your backyard. Be sure to prevent children & animals from falling in. You could dissolve your gold in Aqua Regia and store it in a flask on a shelf. (hint: don't drink it!) ... might be a little hard to spend, but it would likely be safe.
I shove them up my butt. Then when I'm arrested and interrogated, I can poop them out and say to the interrogator, "There's plenty more where that came from if you get me out of here!"