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IIF's Dallara Warns Holdout Greek Bondholders Could Kill "Successful" Greek Deal

Tyler Durden's picture


To all those who stayed up until 6 am local time yesterday to hear Europe announce that the Greek deal is done, Europe is fixed, and that a pot of gold was found at the end of the rainbow, our condolences. Sorry, no isn't. Following up on our earlier post about the potential of UK-law bondholders to once again scuttle the deal, here comes none other than the IIF's Charles Dallara who basically says that the fate of Greece, the Euro, and the Eurozone, are in the hands of Greek creditors as we have been cautioning all along. And after all why on earth would hedge funds who just lost over 70% of their recoveries bear a grudge whatsoever...

From the BBC Newsnight interview to air at 10:30 pm tonight:

Jeremy Paxman: What is to stop someone like a hedge fund or someone who has bought Greek debt trying to trigger the insurance involved in a credit default swap?
Charles Dallara: Well there is nothing I am aware of, Jeremy, that will definitively stop  someone who wants to take such action and there is no iron clad guarantee...that individual investors may not contemplate counter-productive activity here. They have the rights they have the legal rights they have the market judgements to make.


Jeremy Paxman: If the insurance system worked they could recover perhaps 100% of the money they've lent the Greeks instead of something like 30%
Charles Dallara: Its not inconceivable.  If too many go in that direction though, the system breaks down, we will not have the successful conclusion of this deal and then where will they be?


Jeremy Paxman: The whole deal could still be held for ransom?

Charles Dallara: I don't eliminate that possbility.

Oops. Well, so much for that. And where Elliott is involved, Elliott wins.

Full clip after the jump:


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Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:25 | 2182004 SLOMO66
SLOMO66's picture


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:34 | 2182018 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Right at the top....13K and the historical 'effect' of psychological barriers:

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:34 | 2182040 SLOMO66
SLOMO66's picture

The market can only go up! The Media told me so....

If you see ANY red, it's an illusion!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:39 | 2182075 economics1996
economics1996's picture

You mean to tell me people do not like being shit on?


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:09 | 2182193 flacon
flacon's picture

> "If too many go in that direction though, the system breaks down "


If it looks like a Ponzi, talks like a Ponzi, and quacks like a Ponzi.... chances are... it's a Ponzi.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:17 | 2182232 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

It's one not two.  Poop doesn't 'trickle down'.  Well....somtimes I guess.  

Seriously....does it get any nuttier than having "faith" and "confidence" that private banksters, hedge funds, etc. are willing to unanimously cooperate in "shared sacrifice" for the greater good of European Union?

Yet....apparently, this is what is purported here.  The cycles make sense....the history outlined in the context of those cycles is often hard to believe....but yet virtually everyone does!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:17 | 2182273 ZackLo
ZackLo's picture

Are you serious? Someone needs to buy up some greek CDS and bonds and burn it all to the ground.

The politicians around the world will cry evil speculators but, we all know greece is bankrupt and they would be better off Collecting tax renevue going forward and running off that instead of pandering to the EU/ECB/IMF. If they hold out then they are holding the banks hostage not the people because it is all going to burn down anyway why not rip the bandaid off fast instead of pulling it slow and passing out just to wake up and try again?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:12 | 2182247 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:37 | 2182062 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture


"Well there is nothing I am aware of.."

 "Its not inconceivable."

"I don't eliminate that possbility."


Double negatives = as sure as hell


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:44 | 2182099 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Never underestimate the powers of hopium and denial.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:57 | 2182156 redpill
redpill's picture

I wouldn't stop myself from saying it's not unwise to never unremember that it's not an unlikely event these days.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:01 | 2182175 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Greek bondholders are fucking zombies holding on to nuclear sludge killing dead deals for dying nations!

So I'm making money on most fucked up Tuesday!! Let the morons keep jerking us and I'll take resultant profits! 

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:26 | 2182005 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Blame shift, bitchez! 

It's all because of hedge funds now.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:36 | 2182053 redpill
redpill's picture

Precisely.  Everything would be fine if the bondholders would just bend over and not object to being raped.  Silly bondholers.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:41 | 2182087 economics1996
economics1996's picture

"Precisely.  Everything would be fine if the bondholders would just bend over and not object to being raped.  Silly bondholers."


While the central bank gets paid.  Who do thise fucking capitalist pigs think they are?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:48 | 2182107 redpill
redpill's picture

Fascist pigs perhaps, capitalism left the building a long time ago.  Unless you meant the bondholders, who are naive and not entirely blameless victims for thinking capitalism still existed.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:34 | 2182185 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Precisely. There is no capitalism anymore. Fascism at best more at Rigged Ponzi Casino. More importantly, economics1996 should be renamed moronics1996racist. 

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:26 | 2182302 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

" Who do thise fucking capitalist pigs think they are?"



Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:03 | 2182188 So Sue Me
So Sue Me's picture

The bondholders should have remembered that historically, Greeks like ass rape.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:08 | 2182216 redpill
redpill's picture

Since Greece is the first one to go, I suppose one could feel some degree of sympathy.  By the time it gets to US Treasuries, my sympathy will be gone.


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:28 | 2182006 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Playing out perfectly... operation robo-kill enters its first phase.   Thanks Dallara, let the world know how the whole deal is being held hostage.  

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 18:03 | 2182434 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

Fuck em...they can call this what it is...a DEFAULT...or they can kiss my ass.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:27 | 2182010 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

You mean people who saw the credit crisis coming don't want to take a 99% haircut? Shocker.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:39 | 2182078 Augustus
Augustus's picture

It is the people who were aware of the Greek credit problems and decided to reap a fee for insuring the repayment by Greece who now want to hold the whole deal hostage.  If the CDS were paid out now, then those who wrote the insurance could easily agree to the PSI.  It is only the insurers who stand in the way of the resolution.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:28 | 2182013 oogs66
oogs66's picture

Even Obama sticks by the deals he negotiates - for at least 24 hours

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:28 | 2182015 SnobGobbler
SnobGobbler's picture

First banker out first wins!! trigger them damn CDS and break its back!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:51 | 2182131 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

Ye Olde Prisoners Dillema.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:05 | 2182200 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

The game theory one or the "shit I dropped the soap one". I believe the outcome will be the same.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:11 | 2182016 Mercury
Mercury's picture

 The whole deal could still be held for ransom?

...or not. 

Yesterday's one-time, emergency, law-busting cramdown is today's precedent.  Think Chrysler, "fair share" and  a wand waving over a hastilly convened press conference.

(enter stage Left:  Sovereign Debt Czar)

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:29 | 2182020 flyonmywall
flyonmywall's picture

So this whole thing is a giant ramp job. Nice one. Remind me to thank Lloyd for that one.


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:29 | 2182021 Kaiser Sousa
Kaiser Sousa's picture

this shit is just plain fucking stupid...

make it stop...please make it stop....

Icleand Bitchez....Iceland you fucking Greek bitchez.................

for crying out loud.....................

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:32 | 2182033 john39
john39's picture

apparently the more vocal and awake people need to "retire" their corrupted and coopted government before they follow Iceland's lead.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:58 | 2182164 Ayreos
Ayreos's picture

Greece is too dependent on imports to do that. Not surprising that between being raped and being hungry they would choose the first option.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:02 | 2182183 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Just keep the pressure on until she says yes, right?  It doesn't matter how many times someone says no when you're a banker.  They are eventually going to get effed.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:30 | 2182023 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Where's my Broker?! WHERE'S MY #@$*&% BROKER!!!!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:29 | 2182318 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

"Where's my Broker?! WHERE'S MY #@$*&% BROKER!!!!


Probably at "Happy Hour" by now....laughing with the other big shots how the market went up again today.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:31 | 2182028 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Gold certainly isn't buying the "Greek Fix"...

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:31 | 2182029 SLOMO66
SLOMO66's picture

Quick! Somebody manufacture a rumor!!! Just choose a time tested template- 

1) China to the rescue!

2) New IMF 9 trillion super deluxe bailout fund!

3) Think happy thoughts...?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:53 | 2182142 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture



Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:31 | 2182032 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

If the Elliott hedge fund is involved, then this is going to be one messy default.  


From the wiki on Elliott Management Corporation:


A small portion of Elliott's distressed securities trading has been in sovereign debt, most recently Argentina and Congo-Brazzaville. Elliott is well-known for its investment in the distressed debt of Peru. In 1995, Elliott bought $20 million face value of defaulted Peruvian bank debt. After extensive and costly litigation and numerous attempts by Elliott to settle, the Court awarded $58 million to Elliott, including past due interest. More recently, Elliott's efforts to enforce judgments against Congo-Brazzaville totaling more than $100 million in defaulted bank debt have contributed to exposing corruption in the country.[12] Elliott states that it only targets countries that can afford to pay, but have decided not to, and has emphasized its efforts to root out corruption in countries like the Republic of Congo.[4]


So, the questions is: can Greece afford to pay, but has decided not to?  

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:33 | 2182035 Marge N. Callz
Marge N. Callz's picture

But, but, but the IIF is supposed to have the support and backing of all the private sector bond holders right???  I think I will start a new career as a representative for the needs of unicorns.  I won't actually do anything but as long as I get paid in gumdrops and smiles I'll be happy.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:33 | 2182037 vote_libertaria...
vote_libertarian_party's picture

Nice big asterisk there.


"Most of the groups THAT I AM IN COMMUNICATION WITH support the deal"


What percent are you in communication with?  95%?  80%?  50%?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:05 | 2182197 Acet
Acet's picture

Well, he has discussed with his family and they support the deal.

He's also talked to his underlings at the IIF and they also support the deal.

Last but not least he's discussed it with himself in front of a mirror and as it turns out, all of "Me", "Myself" and "I" agree with the deal.

The Greek deal will be a success and Europe is saved!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:36 | 2182039 Physicist
Physicist's picture

He says, "They'll put their shoulder to the wheel to pull this together."

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:36 | 2182060 non_anon
non_anon's picture

grindstones not what they used to be

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:34 | 2182041 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

What I find amusing is that the headlines and news pimps keep calling this a "deal", when in reality, nothing has been agreed upon by all parties involved. I call it wishful thinking. I can't do anything but stand here like a slack-jawed moron and wonder at the absurdity of it all.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:39 | 2182073 surf0766
surf0766's picture

They are optimistic. They are leaders. They have seen the Secret.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:34 | 2182042 Scalaris
Scalaris's picture

You get a CDS! Eveybody gets a CDS!


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:35 | 2182049 falak pema
falak pema's picture

kill those HF shill to the last drop...they deserve it, the scavengers.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:55 | 2182070 CONners
CONners's picture

Who do you want to kill to the last drop?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:35 | 2182050 kito
kito's picture

just think, all of those evil hedge fund managers would be responsible for the end of the world....its bad enough they arent liked now.............just think of their reputation after the world implodes...............thats some heavy burden to be carrying...........

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:39 | 2182077 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Maybe Phil Falcone can make his comeback here?  Got greek debt Phil?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:18 | 2182276 hyperbole2000
hyperbole2000's picture

The hedgefunds are simple dung beetles cleaning up the dietrius deposited by the true predators. The predators being CDS issuing banks who collected fees for insurance with incompetent and negligent, most likely criminal, actuarial risk management.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:36 | 2182052 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Before this global collapse is finished, the (fiscal sanity) holdouts will be tarred and feathered in the name of maintaining the PONZI can kicking.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:44 | 2182097 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Those who threaten to hold out will be able to leverage a higher percentage to maintain the Illusion. Of course there is always the possibility that some will be too greedy or that those taking a bigger hit will object. The bottom line is you can be sure that "some are more equal than others"

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:46 | 2182108 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Exactly, any person or entity that stands on rule of law to the detriment of this ponzi will be lucky to get tar and feathers. 

The worldwide ponzi is coming apart but so very many individual actors from Charles here to your son in law the stock broker,  the friendly local retiree simply counting on 8% returns, the overpaid government worker all of them will do anything to keep it afloat.  Marx's class war is coming but will be different from the one he envisioned or maybe not so different..

Do not count on rule of law, start to plan for scenarios that leave rule of law behind.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:36 | 2182054 non_anon
non_anon's picture


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 21:53 | 2183094 grovernors
grovernors's picture

Beans, bullets, bullion and belief before bedlam because busy bees breed better babies bitchez.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:36 | 2182057 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"There are going to be a lot of people coming together in the coming weeks to pull this together"


 We are going to have to hear about this everyday for weeks still. If they expend this amount of energy and resources spent on such a little country, what is the hell are they gonna do when it's us?


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:49 | 2182121 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Call in UN peace-keeping troops.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:54 | 2182146 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I feel sorry for those poor fellas. They'll simply be target practice.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:03 | 2182192 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Those blue helmets will stand out like a clay pigeon.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:37 | 2182063 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Jeremy Paxman: "If the insurance system worked they could recover perhaps 100% of the money they've lent the Greeks..."

This a major assumption that is not valid. AIG (cough...cough)

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:01 | 2182179 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Insurers will notice they have enough to pay out 3% of the claims and use/lose all their money.  Can anyone say litigation please?  

"The deal was phony, the terms were phony, the country was phony, their bonds were phony.  We aren't paying anything to you other crooks.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:37 | 2182064 surf0766
surf0766's picture

So there never was a successful deal. Dam no golf this week

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:38 | 2182067 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

Eh... they got their bump on the Dow, that should medicate the sheeple for another week or two

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:22 | 2182293 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

NEVER CAN HAVE A DOWN MONDAY.  That is the rule.  As someone just might Sell.  People worry over the weekend so you have to keep the Market Up on Monday at all costs.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:40 | 2182081 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I maintain that actually having a real greek deal is bad for any future auctions of U.S. debt.  Hence, there will never be a deal.  Once the E.Z. is settled, the world may actually pay attention to the mother of all insolvencies.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:41 | 2182086 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

If the ponzi system breaks down, then where will they be?

Well in a much better world, of course, in which the monetary system isn't built on a gigantic paper ponzi that's destroying the wealth of the world by misallocating resources and causing those resources to flow into unproductive areas, such as into the government's hands.

The sooner the ponzi ends, the better. The bigger the ponzi gets, the more painful the bursting of the fiat bubble will be.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:47 | 2182116 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

There is no misallocation of resources: resources go where US citizens want them to go, that is themselves.

Resources go to the most efficient consumers ever, ensuring they are consumed once for good.

And no bright future coming on, you dont build a bright future on less and less resources.

US citizens, stealing the present was not enough, now we are stealing your future.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:18 | 2182277 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

I'm pretty sure I can't wave a magic wand and get resources to go where I want, so no, US citizens can't get resources to go wherever they want. I would like a lot of resources but wishful thinking isn't quite going to do it.

The misallocation is caused by the government controlling the price of money through interest rates, therefore borrowing from future prosperity in order to over consume today and destroying the savings and capital that would have been used in order to consume in the future. Also, the government prints currency, which is misallocating resources because that newly printed currency steals its value from currency already in existence and then the government goes on to squander those resources by pooring them into unproductive areas.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:41 | 2182091 Tuffmug
Tuffmug's picture

Hmmm?? Door # 1 - trigger the CDS for 100% or Door #2 - get fucked in the ass by a very large Greek Jabba the Hut???

Monty, I'm taking Door #1!!


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:45 | 2182105 shushup
shushup's picture

"Coming Weeks" ??? Did he say "weeks" ????? guess it was not a done deal.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:46 | 2182106 Joebloinvestor
Joebloinvestor's picture

I should fucking hope the "under UK law bondholders" would throw a big ass spanner in the works.

These ECB fucks don't care about any rules of law or precedents.

They are just looking forward to the next meeting at a 5 star hotel and room service.

They should pass a rule that every "emergency" meeting to resolve the same fucking problem triggers a 50% haircut in their compensation.

Let them eat sandwiches out of a bag and meet in a courtyard.


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:49 | 2182122 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

We are now in Week 8 of the seemingly never ending rise of the /ES.

If it closes green again this week, it will tie the record for consecutive weeks rising as far back as my charts go (20 years).

This is beyond ridiculous.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:52 | 2182138 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

this is like Tantalus reaching for the fruit only to be forever disappointed

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:56 | 2182151 SLOMO66
SLOMO66's picture

Did you hear? The only way is UP! :D


Bernanke's wallet has predicted the future... IT'S OVERWHELMINGLY GREEN!...

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:00 | 2182173 Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Where is robotrader? He should be out here gloating. Boy it sure climbed a wall of worry this time.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:52 | 2182139 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Pay those private bondholders off under the table and lets get on it.

Spain now please.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:55 | 2182149 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Does the concept of triggering a credit default swap scare the pale vibrating fellow?

hedgies will trigger CDS when they know the game is over and their clients are coming for them.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:56 | 2182152 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

Which would YOU prefer, 30% or 100% (or more)? Duh?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:56 | 2182153 Aliblahblah
Aliblahblah's picture

It's estimated that Hedge Funds only own about 5 Billion in Greek Debt.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:57 | 2182159 Augury Therat
Augury Therat's picture

A Sisyphean task.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 16:57 | 2182161 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I'm disappointed in today's end of day ramp. It's been quite... limp.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:07 | 2182208 bobola
bobola's picture

The standoff continues.

The bond holdouts may be secretly paid by Greek unions to tank their country, as that seems to be their goal.......

Why not use the 'Bernanke solution' and just give the private bond holders their profits and charge the tax payers..??  

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:08 | 2182214 Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

Is this organized crime, or disorganized crime?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:09 | 2182224 redpill
redpill's picture

Organized crime, disorganized default

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:08 | 2182219 mktsrmanipulated
mktsrmanipulated's picture

I love it maybe we should forward this to CNBC.... i sat around this am listening to Erin Burnet, that Cee U Next Tuesday, stae over and over how the Greek deal was done.....FN joke...remember Blodgett....Dorfman...and the guys who have been charged with mkt manipulation....tell me why the puppets at CNBC arent included in these charges.....WTF ...u wanna know why if the mkt goes up then nooone gets hurt...what a fn joke...its still the way the Steve leisman and Joe Kernan commercials are a a joke they couldnt trade their way out of a paper the old saying those who can do those who cant teach/report




Tue, 02/21/2012 - 21:03 | 2182971 bdc63
bdc63's picture

Uhm .... Erin Burnet doesn't work for CNBC anymore.  She moved to CNN about 6 months ago.  Has her own hour long prime time show, so she hasn't even spoken in public about the Greek debt deal yet.

Wanna try again?

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:13 | 2182246 mktsrmanipulated
mktsrmanipulated's picture

just called cnbc to tell them how irresponsible they are and told them about this report and they hung up on me....they dont want to air anything bad what a fucking joke...everyone should call


201 735 2622 ask for the news desk...the girls names was the cheese....

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:16 | 2182264 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I feel like Gomer Pile on the Andy Griffin show.  Suprise, Suprise, Suprise.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:16 | 2182265 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

What I have yet to hear anyone say is that they take a 70% haircut now, and in a year they take another 70% hair cut or about 90% total.  Why in the bleeps name would they ever go along with this?  LTRO is going to have to be awefully huge to twist those arms.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:16 | 2182268 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

According to the ISDA, Greece is not a default. JPM, GS, BAC, C and WFC run the ISDA. Gee, imagine that. Esp considering there the ones that sold the insurance.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:17 | 2182272 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Oh and btw..........I want a check for all my stupid stock picks over the past couple years while they're at it.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:19 | 2182278 iamtheeggman wh...
iamtheeggman whooooooooooooo's picture

All caterers will remain on standby.


Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:24 | 2182303 tiwimon
tiwimon's picture


"Jeremy Paxman: What is to stop someone like a hedge fund or someone who has bought Greek debt trying to trigger the insurance involved in a credit default swap?
Charles Dallara: Well there is nothing I am aware of, Jeremy, that will definitively stop  someone who wants to take such action and there is no iron clad guarantee...that individual investors may not contemplate counter-productive activity here. They have the rights they have the legal rights they have the market judgements to make.



This whole CDS and the question of what/when/how/where its triggered is pure horse hockey. No way on gods green earth do the folks who took out the CDS not have it spelled out in precise/clear terms of exact details of what triggers CDS payout and waiting for some organization who manages CDS to be the end all, be all, say all of when exactly a default has happened is pure horse puck. These folks put the capital D in Details and I find it hard to believe they did not spell out clearly in the contracts specifically in D.E.T.A.I.L. what it would be triggered by, what the payouts are and a haircut of any kind, especially deep into the double digits would be a default and trigger to me.


/course what do I know, other than running a car into a bridge piling and is 66% smaller is declared salvage, sounds like it would trigger some insurance yeah? 

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 17:40 | 2182363 whoisjohngalt11
whoisjohngalt11's picture

So is every one going to be NICE and just stand in line??? is that what happens , no one has the balls to demand full payment?? If i were your representative wouldn't you demand it or has the whole world been cowed into submission???

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 18:10 | 2182452 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture! even the tone in this assholes voice rings true to the prophetic strong delusion. This guy sounds like a father that just slaughtered his Son like a China (PIIGS) Pig and is sad that everyone can see that he's full of shit and needs to take another dump in the PIIGS pen.

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 18:12 | 2182462 willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

Somewhere near Atlanta GA a tap dancing Bob Prechter is tapping down Peachtree Blvd in endless concentric fibonacci induced Elliott Waves screaming laugh at me will they - EVEN A BROKEN CLOCK IS CORRECT TWICE A DAY!!!! DIE BITCHEZ DIE!!!! And the dance continues...perhaps a little Ozo & some plates to toss at the fireplace tonight!

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 19:43 | 2182686 Au Shucks
Au Shucks's picture

So, essentially the bond holders have the opportunity in front of them right now to bring down the whole global ponzi by seeking their CDS rights?  Sorry, that sounds like a wonderful thing, but this has been worked through already for that eventuality.  Greece won't bring the global ponzi cartel to their knees, but it would sure be a nice kick in the balls as the opening throw

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 21:25 | 2183022 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Point re Elliott....they sit on the EMEA, which is the regional body at ISDA that determines whether or not a default event has occured.  Others on EMEA who might have a vested interest different from the big banks are DE Shaw and, maybe, Citadel.  How the vote is taken, I do not know.

Point re law....what law?  As numerous bailouts have demonstrated over the last few years, laws can be changed on a whim and grandfathered as needed by those with the power to change them.  If Greece can insert CACs well after the fact, what is to prevent them from first canvassing bondholders, then making the CAC hurdle whatever number it needs to be?

Point re means of coercion....just a quote from recent history, made by a conveninetly temporary "public servant":  "I'll sick the IRS on you and every single on of your investors!"

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 21:37 | 2183057 tpbeta2
tpbeta2's picture

Link now goes to the whole interview. BBC has updated

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 22:11 | 2183120 GCT
GCT's picture

I don't get it.  The EU screws all the investors by doing illegal bond swaps because they can change the rules at will.  Well except for the bonds under british law and they expect them to bow to their will.  What a fricking farce, I wish I had a british bond CDS would be the way to go!  Screw the ECB.  I would take my chances on getting more then they are offering.

That dick in the interview is wearing more money in clothing then most make in three months these days, easy for him to say they all agree.  Easy for him to say well that would screw up the deal and that would not be right as we need to basically look at the big picture, cry me a river please.

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