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An Improbable Fireside Chat

Tyler Durden's picture





 

By Mark Grant, an American Citizen

A Fireside Chat

Picture a fireside, stone around the hearth, Christmas logs of sometime past, a blazing fire and embers glowing beneath them. Imagine a simple room, wood panels and the glow that is reflected from the light that danced upon their lacquered finish. There sat a man next to the fire who was not the Pastor of some church nor some litigator stirring the listeners for re-election but a man speaking to the country and for the betterment of the nation. This man was neither a saint nor a person enshrined with excessive humility and while an American, he stood for those higher principles upon which the foundation of this country rested. He had been elected and while it can honestly be said that he inherited the problems and was not their creator; he knew that the task at hand would be his greatest accomplishment or his worst failure. Yet he was not afraid; he hearkened to the task because he would give his hallowed spirit to overcome what must be defeated. He knew he would persevere because he must and that the demands of this nation’s forefathers had called him to the task at hand.

There were TV cameras, there were always TV cameras, and there were carefully placed microphones and yet he ignored them all as the time had come to have an honest word with the American people. We had come so far, lost so many lives and now it was a different kind of battle that must be undertaken to hold the nation intact. The President, not this President, but one that is needed, was filled with purpose and the stern look of a man with a mission defined as he began his words in the evening of that fateful day.

“I come to you tonight not as your President but as a member of your extended family. The time has come for a serious chat and I fear the lateness of the hour and I apologize for not arriving sooner as the need is great but I am here now and so we must sit down and take stock of the nation. The United States did not get so far, did not become what it is, just because of our armies or the might of its sword. The country is rooted in principles and the Rule of Law that we have rested upon since 1776 and it is because of our foundation that we have been able to flourish. We are a country of people that have chosen to live here and while we cannot be proud of each and every act; we can certainly be proud of most of them and of the inhabitants from across the world that have chosen to reside in America.

Tonight we face a difficult task because, just as in any household in our country that has lived beyond its means; the country has lived beyond its means. The reality is that the nation, just like any family, only has so many resources and only has so much income and that the debts of the country must be constrained by what we can afford. I am here to tell you this evening that we have overspent, over indulged our desires and that we must walk back from the brink before we step into some abyss that overwhelms us. Our debt has passed more than one hundred percent of the yearly income of the country and we have headed down a path strewn with thorns that can no longer be ignored as it is tearing our clothing as we move forward in time. Further we have lost some of the purpose of the United States as while we must help those citizens in need, we cannot afford, any longer, to subsidize those people that do not want to work or wish to live upon the earnings of others. This may be the way of some countries but it is not the spirit of this country and so we must backtrack from social policies that encourage it.

We have $14.3 Trillion in income and we now have a debt that is more than $15 Trillion and this is not sustainable. Because the numbers are so large and because I wish no confusion for anyone; allow me to present this in another way. If the income of your family is $40,000.00 and you have debts of $50,000.00 then you know that some changes must be made and quickly and that is exactly the circumstances we find ourselves in tonight. We have over spent, over promised and we cannot deliver without quite real consequences for the nation that would eventually shatter the American dream and lead to the destabilization of the country and that I will not allow. We must cut back and while it may be painful and while not everyone will agree on the measures that I propose I am sure that we can find enough common ground to proceed with the task at hand not as Republicans and not as Democrats but as members of a common family that has made some mistakes in judgment. I propose a twenty percent minimum tax rate for all corporations in America and then the deductions in place can be utilized for the difference between the twenty percent rate and the highest rate of thirty-five percent. I propose that Social Security, for people under forty, be trimmed back but with appropriate tax incentives for those that invest soundly and their savings will be rewarded by these new tax breaks. I also propose a cut-back in in Medicare that does not affect our older citizens but is also applied to those under forty with tax breaks for their buying and maintaining private health insurance. It is a major change in the social structure of America no doubt but one that must be made to bring the country back to financial health because the country cannot survive without sound fiscal policies legislated for the nation.

Next I want to address with you the issue of oil and of the country’s energy needs. We should all be conscious of the environment and of being responsible when drilling for oil or natural gas and America needs to do her best to preserve her resources and use them with careful thought for this generation and for the next generation. I begin with these points so it is clear that we have obligations but I also state with absolute certainty and regardless of any mistakes made that we can no longer afford to reward those nations with our energy dollars that wish to overthrow the fundamental principles of the United States. We can no longer allow for the capital of this country to be invested where terrorists and others who seek to bring us harm reside. We have the resources, we have the technology and I intend to propose to Congress a new set of laws that will end our contribution to any nation that seeks America’s demise, is involved with terrorism or is not a member in good standing of the world’s community.

I also address the social crumbling of this country’s foundation tonight which is to ask when being successful became a pariah in the nation’s thinking. The United States was founded upon the principles of success, upon hard work, upon striving to accomplish our goals and when did we lose this most basic of premises is unknown to me but it is one we must re-establish for the good of our country and of our children. I applaud the man or woman who takes the initiative, makes the hard choices and works diligently to provide a better life for himself and his family and I am in the stands cheering as he passes by and marches upon his own two strong legs. I am in the crowd of admirers and I will not allow for him to be degraded by anyone whether he works on Wall Street or Main Street or whether the invention of some new idea has granted him riches that others have not attained. What is great about this country is that success can be achieved, can be attained and this is one of the cornerstones upon which America rests. Here are the real heroes of this country and deriding these people, so much lately a part of our national fiber, is a disease that has infected this nation and one that I intend to move both Heaven and Earth to try and cure. Horatio Alger and the like were always the rock of the United States and the current spirit in the land to look down upon those that have achieved some success will no longer be tolerated in my presence and I envision  the day when not in yours either.

The times in the short run will no doubt be difficult and the choices facing us will not be easy. Many alternatives will be presented and many programs offered and not everyone will agree with what the Congress ultimately decides but choose we must and so we will as I ask for your endurance and support during these difficult moments in our history. What I can assure you, what I can promise you, is that we shall come through this and emerge as a better and stronger country where each man and woman can rest calmly at night knowing that his and her future and the futures of their children will be safer given the difficult choices that we will make in the next few months and then implement to help insure the success of the nation.”

I ask that you join me in my own personal hopes and prayers that someday soon, from someone, we are all able to hear the essence of this speech.

 


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Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Using the State to extort the individuals within its borders via taxation, under the threat of confiscation of property and/or freedom, to further your political and social agenda, is unacceptable.

If you want to pay for another individual's retirement or medical benefits, go for it. Forcing others to do the same flies in the face of what it should mean to be American.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:24 | Link to Comment I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

well i went to the bank yestereday got some gold coins sold them and bought some YELP Stock with the proceeds. I'm bullish now on the future, they haven't profited yet but they are going to

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:42 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Good boy.  You're excused from the FuckEeeMeAh Camp

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment MagicHandPuppet
MagicHandPuppet's picture

What a bunch of do-gooder tripe this article is. There is no collective solution... Especially one where I or any other non-gubbment-employee or free-shit recipient is supposed to feel any ownership of this stupid government's debt or problems. Let them default and inflate. Nothing can stop it. Using taxes as part of the solution is just immoral.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I got teary eye...really...Until he still wanted corporate taxes at 20%.

STOP TAXING PEOPLE.  IT ONLY ENCOURAGES SPENDING.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Mark Grant is a well-intentioned dumbass.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

I was going to post separately how this "article" is complete horseshit but decided you say it much more diplomatically.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:14 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Correct.  Here we are at the edge of the "abyss" and STILL he doesn't manange to think outside the box on tax policy?

How about this:  Reduce spending to 2006 levels and freeze them there for 5 years.  Repeal the 16th amendment and the income tax and replace it with a nationwide consumption tax with offsets for the very poor.  Get rid of corporate taxes because eventually they get passed on to the consumer/shareholder anyway (they don't make the CEO's bonuses any smaller, that's for sure).

Do these simple things and at the end of the 5 years the United States would seeing economic growth the likes of which Timmy Geithner and the Bernanke don't even believe is possible anymore.

And to the title of the post, it actually ISN'T improbable at all.  Politicians say this exact same sort of crap all the time.  His energy policy paragraph has basically been the same speech on energy policy that the last 3-4 Presidents has given.  The problem with commodities like oil is that you either have them or you don't.  No amount of rhetoric is going to make it magically appear.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 13:16 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

Fuck that shit.  NOTHING can fix this rotting, corrupt corpse except a complete reset.  Abolish the federal gov and go back to individual states.  If they want to have a military cooperation agreement, and cross-border trade agreement -- fine.

The federal gov is so far out of control it boggles the mind.  Enough is enough.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

Oh my poor dear boy Mark, don't you know our once great country is now hopelessly gone to that bad night. The USA has entered the abyss and all we can hope for is putting some of it back together, if there's anything left after the complete and total worldwide economic collapse. 

Got Popcorn?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment longdong silver
longdong silver's picture

how about that Brietbart murder, Deffinitly should NOT have had supper with those white pony tailed liberals huh...?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:43 | Link to Comment CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

That's right. He broke bread w Ayers and his cop-killing RedJew wife. Musta been that slow-acting luminous poison.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:04 | Link to Comment withnmeans
withnmeans's picture

Hmmmm, Tyler Durden for President?  I don't know him personally, but some of his writings make common sense. Lets put him at the podium and hear what he has to say, maybe put Rick Santelli as Vice.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

complete and total worldwide economic collapse

Is there a way to use Noetics to bring this about. Perhaps a worldwide day of prayer?

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:13 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

If you want to get perfectly technical about the national debt, that 15.3 trillion in debt belongs to The Corporation of the United States of America, not the American people.

We the people protected ourselves from a runaway federal government and its un-sustainable buildup of debt by passing The Act of 1871, making the Federal government a corporation unto itself, thus absolving the non-corporate entity's, sovereign people of the USA, from being responsible to pay the Federal corporate debt.

This short film explains a lot about it;

UNITED STATES is a Corporation - There are Two Constitutions - Sovereignty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVsMUpPgdT0   

It's a sword that cuts both ways.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 02:52 | Link to Comment groundedkiwi
groundedkiwi's picture

somewhere i rememer reading that corporations are now people .

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:37 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

They are persons, not people, big difference.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 06:30 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

If that fairy-tale helps you sleep better, keep telling it to yourself. It still won't stop Caesar from rendering unto himself that of yours which you won't give, willingly or not.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 12:48 | Link to Comment lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

If you want to get perfectly technical about the national debt, that 15.3 trillion in debt belongs to The Corporation of the United States of America, not the American people. wow !  i learn the most amazing info on ZEROHEDGE.   This rabbit hole is so deep.   Thanks, Michael .....

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

lynn:  haven't seen you in a LONG time babe..... hope you are well.................. I'm still out here in the trenches learning from ZH every day too

CHEERS

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 22:22 | Link to Comment Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

lynn:  haven't seen you in a LONG time babe..... hope you are well.................. I'm still out here in the trenches learning from ZH every day too

CHEERS

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Yes, they are going to make a great deal of money and that was a very wise decision on your part.

 

You might also wish to leverage up a bit on that slam dunk bet with some margin...in fact, it might be prudent to take out a second on your parents' home and buy more YELP.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:39 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Salt N Pepa push It (Original)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YleXlgHI1oM (3:28)

The Offspring Come Out And Play (Keep Em Seperated)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFwkv14u3b4 (3:19)

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:13 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

The times in the short run will no doubt be difficult and the choices facing us will not be easy

 

Remember the golden choice. Or, he who has the gold, has choices.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 06:33 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

He who has the muscle has the choices ... The smart ones with the gold always make sure some of it buys the muscle. You think that whole feudal lord-vassal structure was a one way assertion of power?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Taking a page from the Icelandic book, "How to start over - Telling the banks to fuck themselves" would be a huge great start for any president.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

The desparate need for the rooting out of the criminal element in the top tiers of our society being hopelessly missing from this tripe, aside from the thin concession that maybe some things that have gone on are things not to be proud of. Also, no mention of where the replacement energy is to come from that fuels this Revelation on the Road to Galilee. I guess it's the old patriotic "drill baby drill" meme (not that we shouldn't do that, only that we're kidding ourselves if we think that is enough).  I worry about our species.  

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

NED BABY, i missed you!, where you been?

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment AbruptlyKawaii
AbruptlyKawaii's picture

you always gota watch mutha fukers around u

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:24 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Before a leader can succeed there must be a public willing to listen. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Not just willing, but capable--the real problem.               Milestones

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:27 | Link to Comment cherry picker
cherry picker's picture

This speach will never be heard in my lifetime as there are very few individuals in the political sector except for possibly Ron Paul who has the guts to make a speach like that.

There are just too many who are still sucking on the tit of government and more are fighting over whatever milk may be left.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:45 | Link to Comment ihedgemyhedges
ihedgemyhedges's picture

2 points cherry picker:

First, it's spelled "speech", not "speach".

Secondly, I prefer the tit of AbruptlyKawaii's avatar a few posts above rather than the government tit..........but that's just a personal choice.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:05 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You swallowed that horseshit? Please America, study your history! 

The same assholes that have us here and now had us back then. Guess what? We had a government before the Constitution and the Convention was a coup d'tat that benefitted all the merchants and speculators in debt paper. They even gave us a central bank- up yours Alexander Hamilton.

When Americans gathered and striked, they sent the Pinkerton's, the sheriff and the army to kill us- then they took over the movement and put it in house.

They tortured the Constitution, perpetrated genocide against the native american, made debt slaves and indentured servants out of every immigrant group and when they succeeded, they brought in new groups to abuse. 

They made heroes out of tyrants- Lincoln, FDR, Wilson, and every president since. They filled our heads with crap and called it education. They turned the Executive into a monarch and the Congress into his whore, while the Supremes sang backup. They destroyed the Bill of Rights and then unleashed terrorism on us. Killing almost 3000 good americans in NY.

The history of the US is the history of every nation on Earth that have suffered at the hands of the elites- and they did it with our cheers and fanfare.

The only speech I ever want to hear is the one where they destroy government once and for all- because it is the only way we will ever be free.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:34 | Link to Comment American34
American34's picture

Wow what you say is for the most part crap. Government is here to stay period. If there is one government in the world there has to be others. Any group of people sharing resources for self defense, aka GOVERNMENT, is going to easily conquer any individuals not working together for self defense. This really is common sense. Individuals do not defeat armies. It is not the idea of government that is wrong, it is what we have come to know as government. The idea is pretty simple, people pool together resources that are to be used for the common good. Thats all there is too it, that is government. UNFORTUNATELY, what we know of as government is the opposite, a very small group of people controlling the vast majority of society's resources working for their own benefit. THAT is the problem.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 08:47 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Well, perhaps you can make the intellectual jump and connect your own dots. Read you next to last sentance again and again. Now, where do you see any different systems that have not fallen prey to that problem. 

You do not do the same thing over and over if it doesn't work. That is insanity, by definition.

Next, shed the ridiculous self defense argument. First, prove that little jewel. Second, who is going to cross an ocean to attack us and maintain an armed presence in the face of a completely armed citizenry? No one. Third, how could any nation on earth compete with an economic juggernaut that doesn't have to pay for a government? They won't, so they join the party, just to keep up. Fourth, one word: Afganistan. Second word: Vietnam. Defeated America. Stop buying the banker BS.

Anarcho capitalism and the liberty based society that would evolve IS the best possible future. People just need to remove the religion of government from their minds and see a different reality. While we have always had social organization, we have not always had government. Slavery is a state of mind- there is no way for a ruling minority to maintain it in the face of resolute opposition.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 09:16 | Link to Comment uniman
uniman's picture

I think it would help if you were to be slightly more careful with your defintions.  IMHO, there's nothing wrong with "pool(ing) together resources that are to be used for the common good" so long as the participants are doing so voluntarily.  The act of sharing resources does not spawn a new government.

The essence of government is that they are organizations which use force and fraud to control "their" f/a/r/m/ /a/n/i/m/a/l/s/  "citizens".  I suppose you're right that snuffing this evil out, world-wide, would be like erasing religion or amway or animal brothels.  No matter how hard you piss on any of this, there's always going to be at least a few whack jobs building DHS shrines and trying to re-enact the good ole days.

It's very conceivable that people can organize alternative systems of organization that are not coercive.  These new forms of organization could certainly defend themselves individually and in concert with others.  The big governments in today's world are doomed and I will cheer their passing.  The fragments that still live after the Great Demise, like Terminator's robo-hand, will be much more amenable to control than the beast which spawned them.

Not only are the present forms of government incorrigably abusive but they also have a territorial fetish.  This part _can_ be disposed of.  Because if you're not using a natural resource, you can't just lay claim to it.  Well, go ahead and lay claim, but good luck holding it.  Nobody has any moral obligation to refrain from taking it. 

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:32 | Link to Comment The Andy
The Andy's picture

What a piece of shit. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:32 | Link to Comment Jason T
Jason T's picture

...Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.  And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

 

Fogive the worlds debts... put the system through bankrupcty and reorganize.  The temptation is the printing of money, it's a deal with the devil, the fathe of lies.  Soon enough, we'll all realize our currency, like the germans did in Nov of 1923, is a lie.  

 

The answer is in the lord's prayer.  There, I said it.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:42 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

This ^

And those of you think I am a Holy Roller and think badly can shove it. America was founded with people who put their names on paper knowing that King George the III will come and kill them all together or one by one like dogs.

We did well until about the Nixon years when we were taken off the Gold Standard.

I don't know about you, but that is one speech I will not hear in this life time.

I take matters into my own hands.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:56 | Link to Comment AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

For those who own the dept it will NOT kill them to forgive some or all of it. But many who are in dept, it will kill to repay. Yes; They should have not borrowed, but also true is that it should have not been lent. Both side have gone to far. Does there have to be blood? In the end, the result will be the same.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

No qualifiers necessary.  Say what's on your mind, Hoon.  We're all friends here.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:09 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all [these things] must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these [are] the beginning of sorrows.

Matthew 24

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

You forgot the Corruption.

Unfortunately, then, it's gazing into the fire, and realizing that the rest is all moot.

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:36 | Link to Comment tankster
tankster's picture

John Galt on coke.:p

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:40 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

The Rule of Law was not estabished in 1776.  The Magna Carta was executed in 1215.

But then again, it's either 714, 420 or after 5 somewhere now, isn't it?
So this is what we've become. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:43 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Magna Carta was forced into existence by a People who refused to be enslaved anymore.

If you look hard enough, somewhere in our current Government we are no longer free.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:47 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

LOL
Somewhere we are no longer free?
I'd make it more like; "Say the magic word of where we are yet free and win a $100."

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

An excellent view of how far America, the land of the once free and now home of the slave, has sunk:

Illegal Everything - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBiJB8YuDBQ

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 09:24 | Link to Comment uniman
uniman's picture

Reminds me of my last visit to Walden Pond. Sign, sign, everywhere a sign... No parking. No dogs (ha! dogs can read!). No swimming. No fishing.  No fireworks.  No alcohol!  No glass containers.  No shit sherlock.  No guns.  No nudity.  No freedom.  And no, no, no... don't even think about building a cabin in the woods!

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 05:54 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The space between my ears is under my control and no one else's.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:52 | Link to Comment Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Are you sure about that?

Physiological effects have been observed in a human subject in response to stimulation of the skin with weak electromagnetic fields that are pulsed with certain frequencies near 1/2 Hz or 2.4 Hz, such as to excite a sensory resonance. Many computer monitors and TV tubes, when displaying pulsed images, emit pulsed electromagnetic fields of sufficient amplitudes to cause such excitation. It is therefore possible to manipulate the nervous system of a subject by pulsing images displayed on a nearby computer monitor or TV set. For the latter, the image pulsing may be imbedded in the program material, or it may be overlaid by modulating a video stream, either as an RF signal or as a video signal. The image displayed on a computer monitor may be pulsed effectively by a simple computer program. For certain monitors, pulsed electromagnetic fields capable of exciting sensory resonances in nearby subjects may be generated even as the displayed images are pulsed with subliminal intensity.

United States Patent 6,506,148
Filed: June 1, 2001

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:57 | Link to Comment Antipodeus
Antipodeus's picture

Oh puhleeze, HS ... the Magna Carta ("Great Charter") was forced on King John by barons, etc. who objected to his ability to rape, pillage & plunder more than they could.  The 'People' had very little to do with it.  But it WAS a start in restricting the power of the monarch.

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:35 | Link to Comment bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

As you say, "... forced on King John by barons ... "

It is funny that, shortly after signing, Magna Carta was declared 'null and void' by the Vatican Pope - the chief 'international law' authority in Western Europe at the time ...

Because of the legal principle that, contracts forced by coercion, are not valid ... and the King was forced to sign Magna Carta at swordpoint, ha!

There are some wonderful pro-human-rights words in the Magna Carta ... along with a few ugly phrases as well ... but the King's 'consent' there was a little dodgy.

Magna Carta 39: « No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals ... »

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 08:59 | Link to Comment Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The problem is that people get confused by the words: Free man. That was a description of the wealthy and landed merchant or prince. Just as Aristotle wanted democracy "for the elites" with a slave class assumed. Freedom is an illusion, the great desire of the people, serviced with rhetoric and lacking any substance.

If we were truly free, we could own property without outside claims. We could travel without restriction. We could live without violations of our person and privacy. We could use real money. 

Laws are the webs of our prison. Woven by elite arachnids, keeping us live long enough to savor our blood. Freedom is all around us, we just can't reach it, being caught in the web. We have confused the sight of it, with the reality.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 09:32 | Link to Comment uniman
uniman's picture

You rock man! Yes, we all live in a big cage.  It's very big but it still has boundaries and we're not allowed out of it.  That's a cage in my book.  Somehow I'm reminded of apartheid.   I want one of the ZH trolls to tell me how my requirement to have a passport and get visas in order to travel differs from apartheid.  At the time, all the right-thinkers were so appalled by that but where are they now?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:44 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The Amish build " solid" fire places.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:45 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

Yes, but half that bitch is OUTSIDE !!!

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:04 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Oh those. little tiny things for the English to be able to lift by themselves.

The fireplaces I remember goes back to Williamsburg where a Kitchen staff of 20 can feed 100 people over two of them.

I moved a woodstove once. Boss asked "How strong do you feel?" I said not until I get the steak and taters with beer.

It got moved. 500+ pounds divided by two people. Whew.

It's easier to hoist a passed out fat college co ed who won a drinking game because all the thin friends passed out first.

What's really funny to me is everyone is concerned about acquiring anything from pot stoves all the way to the widowmaker Dutch oVen/cooking combos and forget all about the easier firepit western grid that can be tied to a saddle.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:44 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

Can you say "one termer" ???

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:02 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Can you say "second termer"??

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:07 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

One termer does not do it.

Big spending prick living large via 747 on date nights to NYC while stacking and totally inconvenience the Airspace in 10 states.

Do you realize that the 747 is viewed by our Far Eastern Enemies who are enraged at the symbol of excess and luxury?

He managed to spend the money in all the free world on credit in a few short years.

I rather have FDR back confiscating Gold. At least then we can still do something about it. /snark.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 06:39 | Link to Comment The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Let' see what you say when he is still doing it in 2018 ...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Who's supposed to be giving this speech?
Obama, Romney or Santorum?

Ah, makes no difference, Knukles.  It's all bullshit anyhow.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:59 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Robert Palmer - Simply Irresistible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrGw_cOgwa8 (4:29)

Santana ~ Black Magic Woman with sensational belly dancer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDLLXUaqZxg (5:18)

Chris De Burgh LADY IN RED
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItfyoMvJnx0 (4:24)

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 GFood tune! Robert Palmer,

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:11 | Link to Comment Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Sweet - Love is like Oxygen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRVwcPTnug8 (6:58)

Styx - Too Much Time On My Hands
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs (4:33)

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:17 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Jesus,  Maybe I missed your point.  Are you posting your favorite music artists here on this thread?  If so,  you have horrible taste in music. 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 10:25 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I kno right?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:06 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

We will deal with it after it has become a full blown emergency, its just what we have become...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:15 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

We will slap an infected Band-Aid on it after it was begun to fester....

 

Another post, FIXED!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

And so the bottom 80%, after having been massively screwed for the few past decades is told to enjoy a solo journey pursuing happiness on their own in the most unequal society (after the UK) and at a time when social mobility is practically dead.

As your retirement age equals your death age, as your falling wages will never be able to afford private health insurance, and as we judge if your investments are "sound", dear Americans, go F@ck yourself!!!

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Here's the complete description of all of my sympathy:

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:52 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 And so Mr. New England  disappears?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 21:52 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

This sounds like what Ron Paul says

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Meet the Fockers BoB. You aren't in the circle of trust yet!

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:08 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I hated each and everyone of those damn F movies....

Grrr...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:00 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

This is pretty much the frank "talk" I wish Nobama would have with the country when he is reelected with nothing to lose (politically).  I have had this exact discussion with many (dismissed out-of-hand most of the time) people over the past 4+ years. Will it come to pass?  I sincerely doubt it.  This country has magnificent flaws that will probably require generations to correct.  America has lost her way.  I have not given up hope, however.

 

This country is an ideal. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:33 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

This is sort of the conversation I have with crazy christians who say that the world we live in might not be great but those who make it bad will get thier punishment in the afterlife.

I tell them. Why do you think it is ok to allow those willing to cause harm to humanity to live in luxury, while you suffer? Why will you allow your children to live in a world left in worse shape because of your inaction? Because of a belief that the immoral will be punished by God?

I ask you, isn't the greatest sin of all to squander the gift of this world God created for you? To allow harm to come to the creation of God that will be here long beyond your time?

Those who are causing harm to not believe what you do. To them their actions are not sin. They use your belief to steal from you. To them you are the ignorant fool. If God gave you life and this planet, he gave it to you to make it better and to protect the divine law you are to live by. For you to allow evil to violate the divine law of your belief is a far greater sin.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:18 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

If this world is the best their god can do, that's pathetic.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:54 | Link to Comment Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Pie In the Sky When You Die.


+10 here and now points.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:28 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Amen, adr.  I am tired of turning the other cheek.  I try to explain to stupid people what is really going on here and their eyes just glaze over.  We are now in the same situation that is described by those  living in the middle 18 century just prior to our revolution.  I love my country and can no longer stand by and listen to all the multiculturalists who want to divide us into separate groups.  It's time to stand up and make a difference. I do not allow anyone to describe themselves as a minority at any public forum I attend, and after these meetings conclude, I usually draw a good number of foreigners that appreciate the fact that I recognize them as equal sovereign Americans.  Why do we allow our parasitic elected officials to continue to play their political game of division?

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 04:28 | Link to Comment modest_proposal
modest_proposal's picture

"religion is the opium of the masses"  In this case, opium to anesthatize for the proctological extraction of all wealth, and forcible replacement with recycled toxic assets.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 07:08 | Link to Comment eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

Ok.adr, most of us here know what the problem is, what do you suggest we do about it?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

Otay, this topic shoulda been titled "The Unpossible Fireside Chat..." or the "The Mental Masturbation Day Dream"

"The United States was founded upon the principles of success, upon hard work..."

Didn't Marc Faber tell us Americans to knuckle down and work harder not too long ago? Really? FUCK YOU -  I been working non stop for decades as a toolmaker. I made the parts that made everything else plus BOOKU: components for cruise missiles, bradleys, apaches, spy satellites, submarines, firearm prototypes, top notch medical implants, monstrous dies and molds... I am no better than a slave, I got nothing to show for all that labor because my masters have sucked the marrow from my bones and use my WORK to subjugate the rest of the planet. WOW.

OK, I am tired. 20 hours of sleep this week, 3rd shift OT, just got home from a 17 hour shift. Fuck this. I will attempt to chill out.

http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=torrentinfo&tid=293036

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"I am no better than a slave"  Well, the path to freedom starts with realization of serfdom or slavery.  It particularly sucks that you have been a serf in the service of the military industial complex, as the products of your labor have been used to murder innocent people much of the world over.  I suppose that tragedy is compounded by your labor then also being taxed, which you complied to pay, for the enablement of the mobilization of the war machine around the world.  Good luck freeing yourself, but until then, you remain an enemy of humanity.

As an aside, there is a key and relevant difference between a slave and a serf: the serf is physically unrestrained from abandoning his serfdom and seeking life elsewhere and otherwise; thus the serf has greater moral responsibility for his actions, and while he opts to remain in serfdom, he is morally culpable for the products of his labor.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:10 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

You are not a Serf in the Military, you are essentially a "Weapon" that can be directed as a individual or unit by an Officer who is authorized to send you to your potential death.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:40 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Good point.  Therefore, the moment the free individual signs on as a recruit is the moment where all moral culpability for future actions is instantly accepted.  Obviously, many of the people signing up are not aware of what their future actions will constitute, but that is another moral failure because there is no valid excuse today to not have full foreknowledge of the impending atrocities in which one will participate by joining the military, prior to such enlistment.

I've heard the Uniform Code of Military Justice paraphrased as 'if you did it, you're guilty'.  Regardless, by my estimation, if a person deliberately enters a conflict as a combatant, particularly when traveling to a foreign country to do so, and then kills a noncombatant local resident, by any means, that person is a murderer.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

Wrong, a serf was not allowed to leave the lord's land, we was attached to it.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:44 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"we was attached to it."  Apparently, you still are.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:41 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

In 2003 I stopped working on parts that kill. I told my various employers I refuse. I will not look at those prints, I will not touch those components, I will not advise on set-up, operation or trouble shooting. I have too much blood on my hands.

Back in the day, it was just too twisted; in one machine I would be running parts that save people's lives and the machine adjacent, parts that kill.

I am gonna play hookie for a couple days. I have contracted Chicken Pox for the fifth time.

Edit: In retrospect, maybe it was the "Shock and Awe" buzz phrase that turned me off. To summarize unwarranted destruction into a sound bite...

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

I'm with you bro.

30 years experience as a CNC machinist and now $13/hr as a precision diamond tip tooling insert maker. I did get a 30% increase in pay in the past year because my current employer senses I'm going to go John Galt again and add to my 7 years of sabbaticals in those past 30 years. 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:02 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

Solidarity.

Hey those inserts you working on - lathe, mill, micromill, PCD form tools?

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:18 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

All types PCD and carbide, many for GM production and we're going gang busters, I assume because of the looming Iran war stockpiling cutting tools. They've even identified my company important to national defense and has us fill out quarterly reports for them. I refuse to do overtime for them.

Now if the war doesn't happen and government motors channel stuffing stops, who knows, I'm still at the top of the food chain in tooling.

My house is paid off and I can last a year or more if I get laid off.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:20 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

Right on, things were way busy from September to January, Medtronic is one of our big customers. February started to slow down tho. March onward might be slower yet. IDK - funemployment sounds good to me lately. LOL

Anyhow, been reading up lately on using horizontally oriented Wire EDM with oil based dielectric to run PCD form tools. Faster turn around but the surface finish isn't as good as grinding so the longevity of the tool is slightly shorter.

Been doing Wire EDM for the past twenty years, got tired of mills and lathes. I do have fond memories of the Matsuura Twin Spindles though.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:38 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

I used to work for Pall Corporation 6 years ago running their centrally computer controlled $20 million dollar duel Mitsubishi horizontal Fastems crane fed beast with a pallet washing machine. Sometimes by myself. They paid me $15.20/hr. In my second year anniversary there, I walked up to the supervisors office and demanded $5 more/hr on a Friday afternoon or I quit. In two weeks they said? I said no, right now. I said I don't give a rats ass about the companies 3% raise policy, do whatever it takes to make it happen or I quit. I walked out that same day and a couple weeks later both supervisors were fired and the place was in chaos. It was a very nice 5 year sabbatical.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 02:00 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

Sweet. I have a lot of respect for Mitsubishi. I am running SZ, QA and FA Mitsubishi Wire machines these days - they are awesome iron. Need something within ±.00005" on the first shot? No sweat. Old school AGIE 50, 100 and 200 are real good too. Fanuc and Makino are OK. Charmilles are terrible, one step above Japax.

I like Wire work because its slow, methodical and accurate. No 3,000 IPM rapids and 15g accelerations. Cleaning up after coworker mill crashes was a drag...

Sorry to say, time for sleep. I plan on being unconscious for ~18 hrs until futures open up tomorrow.

Props

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:16 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

The horizontal Mitsubishi's I was running had identical 400 pot tool changers each. 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 15:56 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

Seriously, anyone who runs a 400 ATC horizontal mill with a massive pallet array deserves a minimum of 30 bux an hour. Doing real work on high value capital equipment should be rewarded - not surrendered to CEOs and bureaucracy. I have yet to meet a shop owner that I can respect; they are all slimy crooks running scam after scam on customers, vendors, suppliers, taxes and employees.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:12 | Link to Comment acetinker
acetinker's picture

Unless you can get the discharged particles down to sub-micron size they'll never last as long as ground tools.  I run a lot of PEEK30 (30% carbon fiber) and have a couple dozen used sumi inserts.  Wanna do a real-world test?

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 15:50 | Link to Comment HyperLazy
HyperLazy's picture

Yer right and no experimentation is necessary. Over the years I have tried all sorts of things to make superior parts, sadly there are limits.

Wire EDM'd carbide or PCD won't last as long as ground, this is true. The PCD Wire EDMing stumbling block is the diamond itself which doesn't conduct electrons as easily as the binder material so the surface is uneven where as the violence of grinding will knock down the high spots. The catch-22 of Wire EDMing carbide: to get the smoother surface finishes requires a high open voltage which draws cobalt (carried by protons) out of the matrix and induces cracks. I have had carbide chip or splinter and even violently shatter on occasion.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:51 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

"add to my 7 years of sabbaticals"

I also believe in taking incremental advances on my retirement.  You won't find a year without stamps in my passport.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:37 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Hi Michael,  I have read many of your posts and I find it interesting that you are a machinist.  I started reading zerohedge about 2+ years ago and I assumed you were a trader or a person with banking knowledge.  What do you read that gave you the knowledge that you show in your posts?  I am interested in expanding my knowledge base and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:34 | Link to Comment Michael
Michael's picture

All you have to remember is the TV people and government employees were as they always were, are, and always will be your enemy trying to steal money from you, and you'll be fine.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:04 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

improbable?

 

Rush caves to the 30 year old student whom he called a slut

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/03/03/a_statement_from_rush

 

in reference to her desire for taxpayers to pay for her  $3,000 per law degree co-ed  condom need

http://cs.pn/x9W1jI

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:11 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Rush is an inflamed cunt.  He is so much "part of the problem" that it is physically painful to even view his drug-addled face.  Hypocrite defined.

 

What kind of a mental weakling would pump $400 MILLION into that ass-raping SOB is beyond me.

 

R U smellin' what I'm steppin" in?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:17 | Link to Comment Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

He should've arranged a beer date.  We know she puts out.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:43 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

I'm with Rush on this one.

Karl Marx himself would belly laugh at a selfish 30 year old woman who can pay $45,000/yr tuition to go to an elite law school but demands that everyone else subsidize her unprotected sex while there is 25% black unemployment, 40% youth unemployment, and a record 46 million on food stamps. Maybe she needs to go to a cheaper public university, or get the boyfriends and parents to help her out with the $3000/yr she demands. Instead of laying pipe, maybe she should insist on more Keystone pipelines to offset the cost of operating her 530 BMW and the Spring Break airfare to Cancun.  

Maybe Bill Maher really meant her when he said: "I think she's a cunt who needs to be hate-raped." 

 

Bang Dai Ho: Friend say he banged Georgetown Ho. Terrible! American Doctor say to amputate dick. Chinese Doctor say no need amputate...  fall off 3 days!

 

 

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:41 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Agreed, gwar5,  I was personally insulted by this child of privilege that got some air time to SUCK up to her ideological masters of which she obviously is looking to become a player.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 04:38 | Link to Comment modest_proposal
modest_proposal's picture

wow. and I guess you have 11 rugrats at home?

 

don't suppose you actually read what she testified on, did you? her testimony was about her roommate's struggles to get medically necessary hormones (which also happened to be contracteptive) on a student policy at Georgetown (a catholic school). Since Georgetown had 'moral objections' to any scrip that could cause contraception, the waivering/exemption/whatever process took so long that the roommate lost an ovary.

 

so, now what were those gender-based sexual slurs you were throwing around?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:07 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

BK!, MOTHERfuckers!!!!!!!!  OK.  That's out of my system........

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:14 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

no!  come back!

shane!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:27 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Dude!!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

They shot ole yeller...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I'm not joking HULK. I still cry when Ole' yellar dies!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Hulk
Hulk's picture

For me, its when Bambi's mom dies that gets me all choked up, and thats why I only shoot Bucks!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:00 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

No Comment.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:12 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Kinda ironic when kids run in from the movie Bambi one winter night saying Bambi's Mom got kilt... WAAAAAA

I point to their food on the table consisting of Deer Meat.

That is Bambi's mom keeping you fed.

And we wonder why the kids are damaged.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

A couple of final thoughts: no longer will we allow private parties to regulate our currency. I am asking for the immediate transfer of the Fed's functions to the Treasury and the Fed abolished. We will also end the ability of money to corrupt our politicians. Necessary actions will be taken to remedy this situation, even if it takes a Constitutional amendment. We must have honest decisions made by our elected representatives.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:09 | Link to Comment eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

We love our Santa, don't we?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:10 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this is very well done and i accept it in the spirit in which mark sat down, here

with himself

so, thanks!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:12 | Link to Comment Convolved Man
Convolved Man's picture

The fireside chat would look just awesome in streaming HD on an iPad3.

Woud there be any Corporate America product placements, or just the "paid for by TBTF banks and friends of Wall Street" in fine print at the end?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:12 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

It won't happen folks. The only significant canidate willing to 'man up' and LEAD this country toward sanity is Ron Paul. The others, and specifically obama the dumbass 'progressive' wetdream as realized in practice, hates this nation and desires nothing more than to fulfill his mission, which is to terminate the concepts died for by men who smash him, intellectually, morally, ethically, and just in good ole' common decency. His bitch punk sociopath ass needs to load a syringe and go out alone, by his own hand.

Cowards like him though prefer to not go out alone, they prefer company, and we are it.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:21 | Link to Comment adr
adr's picture

The president who makes that speech will be assaninated by the international banking clan the next morning. It would then be up to the people to either take the forced technocrat rule, or head to Washington and NYC with the intent to kill anyone in a suit.

We either live with tyranny or let the streets run red with blood. There is no other choice.

Hyper-Inflation has begun. Prices have risen on many items 20% or more since Jan 1, 2012. There is no sign of it stopping. Input costs are through the roof and corporate profits are falling. The only thing the Wall Street sector knows is raising prices or reducing labor to increase revenue.

The health care industry is increasing costs with reckless abandon. Hospitals do not care about personal solvency, they will decimate the finances of anyone who enters. Even if the treatment required minimal labor and $100 worth of materials, the hospital will charge $8000 to scam insurance payments.

The corruption of our society runs too deep for it to be saved. I wish there was another option, but only a deep purge and reset can fix our problems. After the purge and the deaths of millions a speech like the one posted here could be spoken.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Blasphemer!  (hands over ears)  Amerika is Great!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!!  Amerika is GREAT!!!!! 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

VH?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Long story.

 

I'm a fan.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:33 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Herein lies the problem with ctrl+v.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:39 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Relatively small problem compared with 'Ctrl+P', no?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

Hospitals have to charge some people 8000 dollars for a hundred dollars of work because the true cost is 95 dollars and medicaid pays fifty. Medicare pays 90. A huge number of people dont pay anything at all and have no assets which can be taken from them to enforce payment.

That one in a hundred patient that is forced to cough up the full amount or go bankrupt is the only reason most hospitals can run in the black.

Look at ROE in the hospital setting. It is average at best. No excess profits here. Of course in another country that hundred dollar service can be done just as well for 60 bucks, but they dont suffer from regulatory and liability concerns and dont require huge overhead to deal with a hundred different insurance plans each with totally different payment requirements that change every few months.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:48 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Paradigm shift, bitchez.

A couple weeks ago, I had an ear infection; I went to the small ear-nose-throat clinic downtown where one old doctor carries on the work his father did.  I don't have health insurance here in Taiwan, so for my ten minutes or so of attention and including the meds issued on site, I paid full price: NT$280, or about US$9.50.  Good treatment, too; I recovered in a couple days.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 04:51 | Link to Comment modest_proposal
modest_proposal's picture

which fully explains why top 1% incomes are stuffed with doctors and insurance execs. right? and I know hospital docs are 'underpaid' relative to their private sector counterparts. right...

 

So, let's enumerate the health care profiteering that goes on in hospitals - every hospital has to have full-body cabinet MRIs right (after excessing their now-obsolete claustrophobia-inducing lie-down MRIs...), and CT scanners, and.. and... medical device industry has stimulated and is massively profiting from artifical demand for excessive diagnostics. Similarly, over-prescription of bumper-profit pharmaceuticals in hospitals is rampant. apparently noo one in hospitals actually knows how to write a bill or run collections from insurance companies - they regularly multiply-bill primary and secondary insurers, and let the insurers and patients sort it out - a practice that fully occupies armies of adjusters and billing clerks on all sides of the sick care industry. Oh - and let's not forget malpractice insurance and the medical liability industry.

 

Every hospital is a river of profits for everyone that can find a teet to hook on to. Just none of it goes on the books of the actual hospitals. And all of it comes out of the pockets of those that actually pay out. Go look up Humana or Blue Cross Mid-Atlantic's SEC filings with bonus information. It would make me sick. If I could afford to even think about being sick.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:35 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

True enough, but how in the hell else to survive in this 'fundamentalist free market"? Capitalism sure does suck huh?

Maybe we should have some banksters and their pimps design a better way.....

Oh, wait.

Sorry.

I forgot that I was posting on ZH.

So now what?

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:14 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

100 dollars?

That is just for the Butterfly that prevents the vampires from sticking you over and over and over again.

A good ER Visit for a bad gut (Diagnosis, full of shit) will see you at least 6000 dollars all done. Provided you are not admitted.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 01:51 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

It's over, and it is only a matter of time until our municipal employees realize, here in Illinois, that our state gov't has lied to them and underfunded their pension funds because, in the end, it was all about public sector union campaign donations and political promises that were never to be.  I never understood why supposed rational people didn't listen to that little voice in their head that said "if it sounds too good to be true, then it is.  

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 11:15 | Link to Comment ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Where have you seen 20% increases over the span of 2 months? We're talking 120% pro-rata... your point is a necessary one, but the numbers scare me.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:24 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I feel this giant SYFY " LOve Glove" , closing all over us! Let's tell it like it is BITCHEZ!

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

So why is it that people under forty are the only ones who have to have their social security benefits cut, yet still pay higher SS taxes with a higher threshold than the older people.

Selfish old bastards are not willing to share the burden I guess.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:31 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

death panels Hugo, shall be the great equalizer

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:38 | Link to Comment Hugo Chavez
Hugo Chavez's picture

They cant come soon enough. The elderly are going to become the most reviled demographic, because it is clear they have no intention of sharing in the sacrifice.

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:52 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

Euthanasia coaster, old bitchez.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_Coaster

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:03 | Link to Comment lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

HC

How do they share in the sacrifice? Most are broke, have been forced into the systems of SocSec and Medicare and are OLD.

Not like they can sell themselves in the sex trade.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 03:00 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

Hi Hugo,  I have lived a very conservative existence my entire life, and if you live in my neck of the woods...

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 23:36 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Funny.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 00:15 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Wait a while, selfish old bastards are being buried every day. The local Police is getting tired of herding traffic around the twice daily funerals now.

Sun, 03/04/2012 - 02:01 | Link to Comment ClassicalLib17
ClassicalLib17's picture

The same goes for you, hungry seagull.  What the fuck have you done to contribute to our country, other than live in your parents basement and use their computer service?

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:27 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

"I come to you tonight" BANG

Sorry, the story ends there. Once the puppet masters get the advance copy of this speech the call will go out. My guess it will be the camera man, maybe the Philippine butler or colonel musturd with a candle stick. 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:30 | Link to Comment goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

Can somebody here explain why it is unsustainable to have $50k of debt serviced by $40k of income a year?  Last time I checked, $50k of debt at today's long term rates costs $2.5k a year to "run in place", i.e., to be sustainable.  That leaves me $37.5k a year to spend on other things.

I doubt anybody hearing this fireside chat would get past the "imagine you make $40k a year and have $50 of debt" without laughing at the idea that this is "unsustainable."  The average American makes that much and easily qualifies for three times that amoun of mortgage debtt --- on a fully amortized 30 year basis for Christ's sake.  

 

Sat, 03/03/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

"Qualifies"  There's the fly.

 

 

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