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India Joins Asian Dollar Exclusion Zone, Will Transact With Iran In Rupees
Two weeks ago we wrote a post that should have made it all too clear that while the US and Europe continue to pretend that all is well, and they are, somehow, solvent, Asia has been smelling the coffee. To wit: "For anyone wondering how the abandonment of the dollar reserve status would look like we have a Hollow Men reference: not with a bang, but a whimper... Or in this case a whole series of bilateral agreements that quietly seeks to remove the US currency as an intermediate. Such as these: "World's Second (China) And Third Largest (Japan) Economies To Bypass Dollar, Engage In Direct Currency Trade", "China, Russia Drop Dollar In Bilateral Trade", "China And Iran To Bypass Dollar, Plan Oil Barter System", "India and Japan sign new $15bn currency swap agreement", and now this: "Iran, Russia Replace Dollar With Rial, Ruble in Trade, Fars Says."" Today we add the latest country to join the Asian dollar exclusion zone: "India and Iran have agreed to settle some of their $12 billion annual oil trade in rupees, a government source said on Friday, resorting to the restricted currency after more than a year of payment problems in the face of fresh, tougher U.S. sanctions." To summarize: Japan, China, Russia, India and Iran: the countries which together account for the bulk of the world's productivity and combined are among the biggest explorers and producers of energy. And now they all have partial bilateral arrangements, and all of which will very likely expand their bilateral arrangements to multilateral, courtesy of Obama's foreign relations stance which by pushing the countries into a corner has forced them to find alternative, USD-exclusive, arrangements. But yes, aside from all of the above, the dollar still is the reserve currency... if only in which to make calculations of how many imaginary money one pays in exchange for imaginary 'developed world' collateral.
On India's induction into the dollar unluck club, from Reuters.
An Indian delegation has been in Tehran this week discussing options for payment and the source said the decision to pay in rupees was made after a meeting there.
"The Central Bank of Iran will open an account with an Indian bank for receiving payment and settling its import," the source, who has direct knowledge of the matter, said, adding the new system will start "soon".
The source did not specify the name of the Indian bank. But other sources have said that Iran could open an account with India's UCO Bank as it does not have any interests in the United States.
Who's this India country anyway?
India, the world's fourth-largest oil consumer, relies on Iran for about 12 percent of its imports or 350,000-400,000 barrels per day (bpd) and is Tehran's second-biggest oil client after China. But Washington has snapped tighter financial sanctions on Iran and wants Asia, Tehran's biggest oil market, to cut imports in a bid to pressure the Islamic nation to rein in its nuclear ambitions, which it suspects are aimed at making weapons.
And, oh yes, we forgot Turkey -the (lately very pissed off) gateway to Europe.
Turkey and Iran said on Thursday they want to increase financial transfers and that work is underway to strengthen banking ties.
When the dollar fails, and currency are devalued, barter begins:
India Trade Secretary Rahul Khullar said this week that the Indian delegation to Iran would work around the U.S. sanctions to protect oil supplies and promote Indian exports.
The government source said Iran has agreed to step up imports from India which added up to some $2.7 billion in 2010/11 and including oilmeal, rice and tea.
"This will cushion them (Iran) to some extent from exchange rate volatility," the source said.
Ironically, and as has been stated here many times before, by enacting the proposed sanctions and embargo, the US, but mostly Europe is doing nothing but shooting itself in the foot, as it opens up a brand new pathway of not only outright defiance, and thus political brownie points domestically for the likes of China, of the US, but it will allow the "Asian dollar exclusion zone" to buy even more crude, at cheaper prices, while in the process it is forced to build closer monetary relations with its neighboring countries, relations that rely less and less on the world's increasingly less relevant reserve currency.
Asian support for U.S. sanctions is vital since the region buys more than half of Iran's daily crude exports. The European Union has agreed in principle to halting Iranian crude imports and could finalise the ban on Jan. 23.
China, Iran's biggest crude customer, has rejected the U.S. sanctions as overstepping the mark and defended its extensive imports from the second-biggest oil producer in OPEC.
Necessity may be the mother of all dollar-exclusive invention, but Obama is surely the father of necessity.
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Considering the fact that nobody on this thread even has access to Iran's currency, let alone wants to buy something that depreciates at a rate of 2% per day against USD, this article is funny at best.
Indian Rupee? Really?
A good chance exists that things will turn around. Very bad that US television media is so intentional in what they are producing. How can one not conclude that an elite agenda against the US citizen is taking place? Hope that change from Obama's elitism results in the prosecution of all whom openly participate in such treasonous acts. The way of least resistance is a return to the rule of law. Remeber the late 60's? What if the entire world participates? Listen for new music to sound as if it contains something more meaningful than the sounds and lyrics - something yet unrealized but sensed by many like minds. When the secret is heard in the hearts of the many the tide will have turned against the elites and their rational group-think intentions.
The Costa Concordia 'turned around' just before finally bottoming too.
I agree that an elite agenda against the US citizen is taking place. I don't agree that there's any hope for defeating their plans to scuttle the USA, as an essential stage towards their beloved dream of a totalitarian world government, ruling over a vastly reduced global population.
The kind of proactive violent 'offense is the best defense' actions that would be required by at least 10% of the population, are simply beyond the MSM brainwashed, prescription drugged and fluoride-passivised people of the West.
When times are urgent even the poor won't waste their time. They awaken and challenge anything that attempts to put them into a stupor. They remain constellated and driven by a sense of purpose which had not been known before. A spontaneous arising within society appears.. The sense of meaning in life becomes pleasurably contagious and gets expressed through music hot heard before. At this time millions and more are poised to find this new sense of meaning.
Nobody is responsible for these types of social events. They originate out of the inability of those in power that are too blinded by deleterious human qualities to act responsibly and are resolved by a sense of purpose ignited in the many that oppose TPTB.
Events will run their course. If anyone, those in power or those that oppose them, think they can willfully and knowingly work what is coming out by design...well this kind of situation does not play out according to any known rules. It necessarily requires the discovery of a new, you might say higher, understanding than what is or has been available to our current thinking. Globalism has set the world in search of an answer to a question that has not yet formed.
On the far side of the horizon the events soon to pass may be seen as something good. Then again the horizon may just vanish. As those two possibilities become clouded in the pain of living a common answer to a question, that arises from a new perspective, will unfold.
I once thought this kind of thing would surely take place when Ansley Dunbar, the drummer for the Mother's of Invention, took a job as an auto salesperson. I was younger then.
Guess it had to wait a little longer.
99x2... What a crock of bull shit!
Mao said it best... "Power comes from the barrel of a gun".
If you believe the over fed, over medicated, brain dead US citizens are going to get off their asses and rise up against a government that is continuing to feed their vices, then you are a total moron.
If... IF... US Citizens get hungry they might 'do something'... but it will probably be the wrong thing... They will put in power some fucking lunatic similar to Hitler, Mao, Stalin, etc, and then when the smoke clears and they are standing in the ruins they will not have a clue what happened to them.
...and, what the hell does some drummer from some rock band that few have ever heard of have to do with anything? Is he selling Chinese cars?
History shows that the hungry generally don't have the enegy, that they continue to just deteriorate until they drop.
Perhaps some Donner Pass incidents, but no, usually only those who are charged up to do It, do It.
Snidley is correct: the guy's got a pretty good batting average going!
To further the point, if being hungry were such an effective strategy then I'd figure that modern armies would use such a strategy.
Time to pull all the news of this momentous Friday together....Sprott, China, India, Oil, Iran, Navy, USD ....and SILVER - a perfect storm brewing up to herald the collapse of the Anglo-Merican era.
As of mid 2011, world governments collectively held less than 100m oz of silver, as opposed to 1 billion oz of gold. It's physically impossible at this point for them to radically alter that ratio. The Chinese are buying hand it over fist, but their motives and their history of silver useage are entirely at odds with those of the west. Funny how the Chi-coms have turned out to be much more the free traders than the misnomed 'free world.' As economic heft tilts towards the East, so too will the GSR tilt in the direction of where it has traditionally been in India, East Asia, and Africa - 10:1...the west has no more silver to dump onto markets...and the era of demonitized silver is drawing to a close. Only the paper ponzi separates them from the end now.
This means the ability of governments and their puppetmasters to manipulate AUG has dwindled to the point that only one delivery failure and the whole corrupt superstructure of Anglo-American dominance will be swept away. As USD ascendancy fades away monetized silver will act in a manner parallel to it's well known anti-bacterial properties - to cleanse and sterilize the festering wound of the Krony-Kapitalist-Kleptocracy and return us to an era of abundance and prosperity via free competition between gold and silver. It's bedtime for PONZO!
Sprott+Jim Willie = Clayton Moore&Jay Silverheels...in the best bedtime story ever, for big boys&girls! It no longer matters where the price of silver goes in terms of fiat...in the end it will prove to be not so much wealth creator, or even preserver, as the catalyst to a return to economic sanity. Bad Guys everywhere are quaking under their sheets!
*Clap* Well said all around Joyful.
ori
+1. Thanx for that Joyful.
Things are starting to add up... lots of dominoes lining up... and it gets harder and harder to believe we will get to the end of this auspicious year of 2012 without some major paradime shifts.
(mis-spell was purposeful)
"(mis-spell was purposeful)"
+ 20 cents.
snort, ohh good..
Nicely put.
Bad guys are shitting sharp bricks.
Lost me at "...Anglo-Merican era." Never was nothing but a Ashkanazi-Kazaria-Sabbabtean thing.
Agreed, and I thank you for yur witnessing....I find that the attention span here is such that one must pick a topic of interest and stick with it for the duration of one's post, or all kinds of silliness begins to hit the fan...tonite I chose silver, and spoke in code so that the arrow would hit home without the usual idiotic deflection. I'm number 4 on yur greens.
Here's to the day us oldsters can hang up the spurs an yu younguns ride out shootin from both barrels! HIGH HO SILVER!
Excellent observations Joyful...
...and to think. At the time of the US Revloutionary War the Spanish silver dollar was the most respected and widely circulated currency among Americans and Chinese.
In fact, when passing through customs in Shanghai during the 1920s the customs agents took note of how much of each currency businessmen and tourists were carrying. Spanish silver dollars were known as 'Mex'. As in 'I have 280 US and 210 Mex'. Spanish silver dollars were known as Mex throughout SE Asia and elsewhere. And, the first US coin mintage was based on the popularity of the Mex or Spanish silver dollar.
Central banks will rue the day they dumped their silver reserves.
Interesting times we live in.
Sprott should stop plane travel for the foreseeable future. The announcement didn't really hurt his existing PSLV shareholders, either. Check-it:
1/20 close: 13.90.
1/13 close: 14.27.
His announcement may have goosed the silver market, and then the premium dropped. Slow fucking clap for Mr. Sprott. His is the only paper game I (probably naively) play.
This is an act of war.
I warmly recommend to President Obama an immediate military action against Iran (preferrably using strategic "carpet" bombing and "depleted uranium" ammunition for maximum damage), along with a painful but necessary crackdown on all anarchist, communist and anti-American organizations in the U.S. territory (such as "Veterans For Peace", "Food Not Bombs" or "Ron Paul" supporters).
These organizations are indeed a threat to the very essence of the American way of life and American strategic interests, and this makes actions against them 100% compatible with the First Amendment.
i hope you didnt drive home from the bar tonite.
"Thank you, please come again."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxb59m3bREU&feature=related
How come to not using Dollars? It's an assault on American sovereingty.
Hammy's assult on the English language is an insult to Americans and Brits.
There, fixed that for ya...
Pavlov's Dog says "what"?
Mitt, is that you?
ZH,ers still dont get it.
They have every intentions to collapse the current currencies. The powers that be will NEVER allow the loss of control.
Think Global chess.
Where are our Naval forces?
What countries does the US/NATO currently occupy?
What countries has US/NATO have had direct/indirect regime change?
...it's about one country and one country only. The goal is to establish peace with it ...and that shall be a false peace that shall be broken. It's not about the U.S. and surely The Fight Club knows the players behind the global market target zero, the wings of the Black Swan have blown into the global market delusion, in defense of that one country. The timing is prophetic and it does not matter if you do not think it is, ''they'' do and so do the enemies standing apposed to mercy. The whole thing is built upon the power of deception and all nations are fallen as a result. Israel is the burdensome stone and it is the target the deception defines. When you see it upon the alter of sacrifice a few years from now, and you will, be ready to witness judgment. Think masonic chess, lol. Played by the Pharoah, host for the god(s) of Egypt, now among all nations and Israel.
It is amazing how much I have learned recently about Political Zionism. And I have also learned that there are MANY outspoken Jews who completely denounce political Zionism as pure evil. They know what's going on. And then there is:
Do you think I am speaking of Muslims? Some extremist Muslims DO have these goals and beliefs, but I was actually listing those of Political Zionism.
I grew up my whole life being told to support Israel, as that is what good Christians do. I now realize that I, and those who taught this, have been deceived. I am not generalizing or condemning an entire category of people with this post. I try to look at people on an individual basis. As MLK said, content of character is all that matters in the end.
I don't hate ANYONE....but I DO hate how zionism has achieved such a stranglehold over literally EVERYTHING in America, and virtually NO ONE knows about it due to our propaganda media, the ADL, SPLC, and the ACLU. It's been a couple of years since the "hate crimes" law was passed....I have almost forgotten about it. Silly me....I used to think that the group driving that law was the homosexual movement. I was wrong....
The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion Explained
http://www.threeworldwars.com/protocols.htm
The Protocols of Zion - Fraud or Genuine?
There have been many attempts to discount The Protocols as a fraud, and the fact remains that there is no documentary proof that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are what they say they are. Allegations of forgery and fraud have dogged their public history. However, despite many opinions to the contrary, the documents have never been categorically proved to be fraudulent. Besides, why would an anonymous document be forged? See The Protocols - a Neocon Manifesto. (with thanks to an anonymous emailer, identified only as 'An American').
Joyful, im a fan
if fair value exists as a free market mechanism 5 to 1 slv to gld, shame its not a free market
Japan, China, Russia, India and Iran: the countries which together account for the bulk of the world's productivity and combined are among the biggest explorers and producers of energy. And now they all have partial bilateral arrangements, and all of which will very likely expand their bilateral arrangements to multilateral, courtesy of Obama's foreign relations stance which by pushing the countries into a corner has forced them to find alternative, USD-exclusive, arrangements.
As I have mentioned here, here, and elsewhere, I believe this is way more than meets the eye, certainly way more than reported in American media (which is pretty much zero).
Three major nuclear powers in Asia are telling Obama "FUCK OFF", ignoring his sanctions, buying oil from Iran in their respective currencies, bypassing the USD.
I believe "three major nuclear powers in Asia" is significant. While no overt nuclear threat has been made, the inferred threat is about as real as it gets.
Many here want to see the end of American imperialism in the middle east.
Ok, this might be what does it. China alone can sink the US dollar by dumping $2 tillion in treasuries they hold. Japan is in that group too, and if Japan chose to dump their treasuries along with China, it's pretty much the end of USD world reserve currency status.
Even without that, merely taking that much oil out of US dollar control would be the beginning of the end of the petrodollar.
I suspect Obama wasn't anticipating a development like this when he brazenly told everyone he wanted sanctions & embargo of Iran, foolishly believing everyone would play along, and now it's backfired in a far more horrible way than he can imagine, motivating three major Asian nuclear powers to team up against him and against the USD.
Fortunately Europe is smart enough to see the handwriting on the wall and back off their embargo plans.
America, not so much.
But then bullies tend to be that way. Ignoring the quiet guy who comes along ...and beats the shit out of them.
I always try to think beyond Puppet in Chief to his bankster handlers who told him to emit such a decree....what is THEIR strategy here? I think it is one more straw piled on that will be raison d' etre for commencing the war....eventually.
Financial bullying is ALWAYS used as a precursor for war....history is replete with such chess moves. Ask Zbiggy!
Bamster is many htings dumb is not one of them and neither are his handlers. Once is curious, twice is a problem three time is enemy action.. We are at approximately 2,376,321 occurences..
This points to increasing nationalism; a constriction of once broad loose agreements in better times.
It will be interesting to see what the PIIGS do; they can't get it all from Libya.
If EURO problems persist, it may still float the dollar for a while.
Dollar has taken a breather but so have EURO fears and the VIX.
The U.S. is losing it's influence, and China will be happy to take the oil and our place.
what does this do to WTO? They seem totally helpless these globalist bureaucrats of Geneva.
It's a subtle game, and China will play it in a subtle way. It's a pusher/junkie relationship, the pusher (China) doesn't want the junkie (US) to die just yet. And the junkie is useful because he's the enforcer, keeping the streets open to let the pusher expand his business. A long, slow death of the junkie is called for, giving enough time for the pusher to find plenty of more new junkies to take his place. A mad scramble in other neighborhoods (Africa, S. America, Mid East) to set up the new junkies.
Thank you, agree.
never seen nothing like this. must be time to escape
the end result will be a world devided into several economic zones each with its regional currency and closed borders for outsiders. I can imagine north american+UK zone, south-american zone, china-asian zone and european zone
India buys Iran oil; won’t ask US-sanctions waiver
India continues to buy crude oil from Iran as it accepts only sanctions imposed by the United Nations and not by any countries, Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai said Tuesday.
Finally, Armageddon.
r u losing hope in boredom?
With China and India now printing (check their stock inexes)? And inflation denial the new trend for 2012 (refer to fudged PMI and CPI from early Jan onward) as oil stays bid. Brazil went nuts buying USD in the early 90s. End yr 2011 India/China/middle east were buying up USDs like no tomorrow. Proof? the manical PboC and Chinese gov just tore a hole into their famed FX reserves, same with India. Inflation will hit Asia hard next mth and companies/individuals will start buying up USDs again.
Judging China's economy by their stock index. Every Chinese will laugh at you. Keep trolling
he didn't judge china's economy by its stock index there
how long have you had this problem?
Slewie keeps it real
i know a lot of chinese who live in shanghai and here...lets just say that they know their goverment has lost the plot, your subprime has already started - wenzhou city, and your cb has started printing. also butnut, the USD buy up is to hedge against a fake currency : the Yuan. No the judgement is the effort to juice stocks by debasing the CNY. You can,t see that you shouldn't be trading in the markets.
major problem brewing in China...real bad.
Reality is painful mf
I don't need to know anybody in the US. I just know Occupy movements are growing bigger and bigger no matter how hard the Government or MSM trying to distract the public from the upcoming unrest. The civil revolution like Ron Paul will eventually unveil the greatest truth about USD to the world. It's going to be an epic year for the US regarding the coming collapse of the Dollar. The time of change is coming soon
As I had stated in the past pertaining to people calling Bernanke stupid, it's all about deception. If you telegraph what you're wanting to do then it's got ZERO chance as there will be forces acting against it/you.
Your last bullet point it true, but not necessarily as a result of the ones above it. This is a scramble for the last of the resources, but, unfortunately, the big rats, when get the cheese, eat it; the cheese won't survive, and neither will most of earth's human population: there's something to be said about the various religious stories, I think that they were just priming us for the eventual outcome, and maybe also daring us to do something about it (mixed messages, deception... how can you hold the notion of birth control on one hand and "go forth and multiply" on the other?).
Every nation is involved in the infinite growth on a finite planet Ponzi. The fucking music IS going to stop.
go to the middle east and large areas of Asia they all hedge with USDs, they simply do not trust their corrupt govs.
Troll, have a rest.
what if s/he is not a troll?
what would that make you?
relax a-hole. look why defend BS. the market doesn't care, ALL govs are crap, some worst than others. Ok the FED f*ck around with money supply, but at least the USD is a free floating rate. the CNY is joke, fixed lower on a good day forcing traders to sell USD. where does the cash go? your 'party' then directs it into stocks. you have negative real interest rates!!! so your crap goverment keeps the speculation going via property and equities buying.
there you go...now go protest or something
They all hedge in uncorrupted USD, that's what you want to say? If you say so I believe.
Maybe they want to bypass USD just for one purpose (for now) which is not to allow US to control their trade transactions and disrupt their economies at will of US gov?
it's a complex situ, E_U
with carry trades, FX fluctuations, derivatives, and the races to the bottom, a boatload of money is hedged in a shitload of ways
i'm not sure there is a monolithic, unified "they" who are all hedged into this or all wanting to see that
we have the G7 and the G20 and the GWhizzz, global "free trade" agreements, all kinds of regional and continental groups, UN committees, development and delivery contracts, and if you want your share in pounds or francs or yen or soybeans or PMs or racehorses at the close of business today, who really gives a fuk?
there is a constant clusterfuk of mere mortals trying to figure out what to do about damned near everything damned near all the time. just fuking around w/ the rules and enforcing them is what? maybe 20% of world GDP? whatever that means
and, as far as i can tell, everything is totally experimental, all the time, anyway
especially economics
and all the reports about it are totally fudged and the variance from truth can be capitalized into new credit L0L!!!
other than that, we all pretty much depend on the sun and the moon and the stars, motherNature and the Food Chain and the "engines" of transformation of energies
we take way too much credit for how good we do since we really don't do too much compared to what is happening or has happened without us. we take vast planetary, solar, and galactic systems for granted generally, and when we're enjoying the heat from the fire with our feet up, if we think about it, we're not entirely sure how that tree did that, either
peace
The system is meant to be complex, so we trust the "experts". Meanwhile we measure fiat vs fiat which gives us a relative strength measure and forget about PMs.
We do take for granted our freedoms, and while we watch ESPN or DWTS our politicians builid a prison around us.
i think we also need to recognize that the complexity is apparently/really/or both increasing as we develop "information technology" capacity
and, our ability to "control" it, at least in conventional terms, may be decreasing simply b/c we have these digital capacities doing the exponential and we're on the phone in grocery trying to decide what to get for dinner and do we need fuking cottage cheese
and one of these digital capacities of asymptotic incredulity is fiat legal tender/negative value debt system which may be branching into legal-financial complexity faster than you can say: where's my bong?
i'm pretty sure most of our politicians have no idea why it hasn't blown/imploded (choose one, both, or all three, b/c it doesn't matter why) any more than we do or wtf will happen next any more than we do. actually, we probably know more about it than they do. gerald ford couln't even hit a golf ball & practically killed somebody every time he teed it up! but that was in the 70's and he'd pardoned nixon! it was like russian roulette with the prez firing white bullets into a gallery of totally-lost taxpaying citizens. fate determined the sacrifial victim
now, things have "evolved": we now have a system using random number generators and retirement funds and most golfing is classified
I agree, but I think the technology works to our disadvantage as it allows the fraud and corruption to become larger and more widespread. It also gives many an air of superiority over past generations as they claim "this time it will be different". Many also discount The Founers as outdated but they went to great lengths to protect us from tyranny.
I wonder if many in the Tea Party didn't go in with good intentions but were then informed of the cold reality - if the printing stops so does the economy and they would take the blame. The only reason this ponzi hasn't collasped on itself is because everybody has a CB and everyone is printing in unison, and, as I mentioned above because we have allowed them to compare fiat vs fiat rather than gold. If not, we'd have gone "Weimar" long ago.
I think many of them understand to well what is going on (When the healthcare bill passed one senator made a slip and stated it took us a long time to get control of the people) and also realize the can kicking is coming to a close. They fear openly printing because of food prices and they fear war because of gas prices; either will wake the sheeple. With the recent legislation being passed I think they are moving from a soft takeover (debt) to a hard take over with martial law.
"just fuking around w/ the rules and enforcing them is what? maybe 20% of world GDP? "
The entropy component?
Anyway, nice collection of words from ya!
This is so true. The last time I was in Syria, I accidentally exchanged too many US dollars for Syrian pounds to purchase a flight out. When I went back (only 15 minutes later), the dude said NO WAY.
http://www.youtube.com/user/peacsees?feature=watch#p/u/3/BkyX824YWGI
sad day, happy tune
India, Russia, China... you notice how these countries are all increasing their gold reserves as fast as possible.
Sounds like a plan-
1. Decouple from the dollar, negotiating bilateral trade agreements between themselves in their own currencies.
2. Use all dollar reserves to buy physical assets in the USA and other US-aligned nations, thus sending the dollars home.
3. Simultaneously announce gold/silver backing for each of their currencies, at rates that massively devalue the dollar per the corrupt COMEX gold-dollar price fix.
4. No '???', just profit and win.
Shhh....don't tell the sheeple! They must never hear about this in the MSM!
1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. Yes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triffin_dilemma
Bharat naaach!
No:
Necessity is the mother of invention! Obama is the father of the bastard who slept with invention and gave us lethargy, ignorance and Congress!
Nice article, but you may want to use a period now and again.
That last paragraph was a doozie!
L0L!!! tyler doesn't like periods when he's drinking; they interfere w/ the thought pyramids cascading or something
i only use them when necessary, myself, but i don't use them in a different way
i wondered what tyler was trying to say: what necessity has prez0 brought into the world?
(i want to write this upside down!)
the necessity for us to remove him! Hahaha!
I am all out of optimism slewie.
remove or replace, lather, rinse, repeat.
"good intentions" are at every level of the political food chain. Raping and pillaging in the name of the common good.
At this point I would be happier if I could remove the bombastic ahole ruining my mothers HOA!
i hear that! those CC&Rs are bad moon rising
and may we always rape and pillage in the name of cumming good!
We had in made after Nixon took us off the gold standard for good; we printed funny looking paper and people actually gave us real shit for it in return yet we managed to fuck it all up due to greed and are about to take down ourselves and most of Europe as well. Once the "System" is gone that is it because it's the System that gave us power and that power will be gone once a new System is created. All the trillions wasted on "defense" and we are going to be taken down by people rejecting our paper money lol. Got Gold?
OOPS!
Economic Asymmetrical Warfare........this is what it looks like.
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
India has a backbone in there somewhere! Telling the empire to shove it's FRN is a great first step.Mahatma Gandhi
This is EXCELLENT news.
A great day.
Which agreement will be the tipping point? How many have we seen over the past 6 months. With another debt ceiling increase and no cuts, the downgrade can't be far behind. Then more agreements.
I agree. As a quasi "ally" of US, for India to throw in the towel is very disconcerting. The question becomes, if all trades are done via local currency exchanges, the world will come to grips with the fact that since there is so much trade between nations, having to encumber each trade in a matrix of currency exchanges will lead all the nations of the world back to where we started from: gold or silver or some energy unit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ay7B0YmdpIc&list=FLAKm67FDnhP66lz_kGMAUBQ...
IMO the swing vote was Japan cozying up to China. India has in modern times been closer to Russia than the USA, in fact the USA made it a point in the cold war to alienate India.
Is anyone holding the master list of these deals? It would be interesting to see some graphical on it. Also what percentage of global trade is now being done without the dollar.
Bingo.
I'm looking, but the IMF is not the easiest site to navigate. According to China Daily, RMB settlement has only totaled about half a trillion USD since 2009.
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2012-01/11/content_14424164.htm
That's a good start. With all the brainpower on this site... Someone knows where to get it.
The IMF. They are the keepers of the international trading data. If you want it, that's where to find it. But be prepared to do a lot of grunt work.
I'll give it a shot..
Good strategic blocking move from China, Russia and India. Otherwise, Israel/USA would be already at war with Iran with dangerous consequences to everybody. The only problem is that if Americans vote for some warmongering idiot to become the next president, we will be in trouble. The kind who thinks chess is for pussies...
India doesn't use Swiss Francs or Norwegian Kronas to settle their trade do they? According to the idiotic Dollar bear theory once countries stop settling trade using invoices denominated in Dollars the Greenback will goto zero.
Why then aren't the Swiss Franc or the Krona going to zero? After all China or Russia or Brazil aren't using them to settle their trade LOL
All nations require foreigners who wish to do business inside their boarders to do so in their own currencies. Hence if there is any attempt to sell toyotas in the US or Switzerland then the vehicles must be sold in US$ or Swiss Francs (or Euros) and the money converted at the boards when it exits. This is also true of bonds. The US$ was used for the purposes of conversion and denomination as a convenience, not a necessity.
But the times they are a'changin'...
"convenience, not a necessity."
All who enter here and believe in the almighty US dollar and it's inviolable reserve currency status: READ THOSE WORDS SLOWLY, CAREFULLY, AND LET THEM SINK IN.
Becoz Swiss and Norway do not have any outside debt .. Norway infact has one of the highest GDP/capita due to plenty of oil and Swiss has one of the highest amount of Gold and is the Headoffice of many multinational companies due to good legal system.
steve.stuart
Swiss has one of the highest amount of Gold and is the Headoffice of many multinational companies due to good legal system.
With less than 2000 Metric tons, I would not call that a wad for a soverign nationof their stature. Per capita yes it is, but total not so much as they sold off the vast majority of their holdings.
Good legal system, or just because they used to be a place of security, and privacy (which we promptly screwed up).As they gave into our blackmail routines.
The world is weary of the US$ harness. Major players are making bi-lateral arrangements which help them slip out of the harness. This gives secondary and tertiary players courage to make these same arrangemtns. Right now you have the 2nd and 3rd largest economies (Japan, China) as well as India and Russia making monthly news on this theme.
Let us not forget that South America also has started a continental bilateral arrangement in 2010. Europe also have been working with Russia and Chinese toward using the Euro, etc.
So, this is not some flash in the pan thing. Let us also remember that these bilateral trade systems must start small to provide the infrastrusture to do the deals. But once established and exercised there is no real cost to scaling these systems. So, growth is not at all limited to incremental advances.
I do believe the major and seconary players are moving in the direction of pushing the US$ to the side. They are leveraging the 75% of the world economy which is not based in the USA and those nations mutual interests in reducing the power if the US in their affairs.
Over time the US$ will only be used where there is advantage to do so, and in my thinking that would be used by the people who actually DO have capital (vs those who print money) to export the remaining industries, intellectual property and raw materials out of the USA. This will be seen in part as an uncontrolled falling of the value of the dollar and news of waves of foreign acquisitions of US owned corporations.
The USA will drop to its real economy reality which is as a second world nation, albeit the top of the American (No/So) continents economies but much more a resource based economy exporting food while its people struggle to survive.
Downwardly Moble Countries = DoMoCo's
I will blame Israel for this ... their lobby and paid zionist US senators & congress men have ruined our country.
Amen. Now that's a cause the world should unite around.
http://www.youtube.com/user/zionget
http://www.youtube.com/user/drdduke
I don't know why, but this news really got me into thinking to buy more Au or Ag-even more than last months price drop.
It will be interesting to see what effect this announcement by India/Iran has (or has had) on Au/Ag prices, depending on when the big buyers /sellers got the news.
In cardiology, often interpretation of an EKG based on finding the P wave or "cherchez le P" (Look for the P wave)
Now I suspect, currency realignments like this will better understood if one can "Cherchez le Gold"
"It will be interesting to see what effect this announcement by India/Iran has (or has had) on Au/Ag prices, depending on when the big buyers /sellers got the news."
none. dow up 300 points on monday. greece solved again. bennie printing. 'recovery' on the way.
stocks go up. shorts and hedge go down. it must be.
so I wonder, is Bernanke huddled in the corner of his office hugging himself, rocking back and forth and muttering prayers of mercy to his false eco gods?
or
is he kneeling before a holographic image of Darth Bilderberg and reporting that "all is proceeding according to plan"?
to be a fly on the wall in the halls of power...
Nope. The Bernanke is counting his Krugerrands!
i personally really don't understand what motivates bernake. greenspan loved the attention and getting to be a little j-boy wall street gibbitzer. he loved that crap about what hand he held his briefcase in. obama loves the power and the revenge. geithner loves the money, he knows he's useless. but what drives bernake?
We are on the same wave length. If you consider Libyan foreign exchange reserves were higher than those of Canada, makes you realise why the "revol-invasion" took place last year. Looking at the table I wonder why the new currency can't be "chindirujas" [Ch-ind-i-ru-ja].
Does anyone ever get the feeling those of us in the US could experience an 'overnight' collapse? Just bang out of nowhere? And our politicians never seen it coming? I wouldn't be surprised if the collapse of the US is a 1 week event. There's probably a bunch of crooks busy filling their money bags as I type this.
48 hours
That is what I am so concerned about. If it is a gradual grinding down I can adapt and prepare, but if not, well that really sucks. Money bags? They are loading up their armored cars!
Calm down a bit. What you need to understand is that most of what you've got, you don't need. Most of what you have isn't worth keeping, and definitely not worth the effort to "protect".
You are a slave to what you've been told to want, you are a slave to being afraid of losing your "stuff", the stuff you don't really need, but are prepared to die to protect.
They've got you by the short and curlies simply because you have accepted their underlying premise that "somehow this whole system is worthwhile". There isn't anything better, we're the best bullshit that is accepted without question.
Wake up to this fact and you can control your withdrawal, and plan your escape.
"Nowheremanifesto FTW!!"
http://duckman.pettho.com/characters/beagleb.html
http://coa.inducks.org/story.php?c=W+WDC+134-02
Comix never lie....at least, not like politicians
Does anyone ever get the feeling those of us in the US could experience an 'overnight' collapse?
Yes, I've been saying that all along. USD collapse would be sudden, catching everyone off guard
...except insiders of course, who would have their dollars shorts in place ready to profit on the collapse ...just like they did in the subprime collapse. And yes we're talking major US banks. They have no loyalty to America.
People seem to forget the only thing propping up USD now is being the worldwide oil trading currency ...kept there by US military force.
Suddenly the game has radically changed. Russia China & India announcing (at more or less the same time) they're ignoring Obama's Iran sanctions, buying Iranian oil in their respective currencies, thumbing their noses at Obama, implying "go ahead asshole, send your military after *us* and see what happens, we have all the nukes we need to take care of you".
And it's just the beginning. Other oil exporting nations have been wanting to get away from USD dominance. They see Russia China & India successfully cutting USD out of the picture, and they'll be asking "where can we sign up".
Americans foolishly / arrogantly think nobody would play the thermonuclear card.
I suspect Americans are about to find out differently. This Russia / China / India combined action has thermonuclear written all over it.
...except insiders of course, who would have their dollars shorts in place ready to profit on the collapse ...just like they did in the subprime collapse. And yes we're talking major US banks. They have no loyalty to America.
People seem to forget the only thing propping up USD now is being the worldwide oil trading currency ...kept there by US military force.
***************
What sense would it make to short a collapsed currency?
Get paid in what exactly?
More worthless paper? or do you mean a "hedge" such as gold against a collapse? because if the USD collapses-they "all" collapse-
There is no US military force holding the the USD up as an "oil trading currency"
Countries are free to choose whatever currency they wish to trade oil for-
anybody on this blog ever work for - bear stearns, lehman brothers, merril lynch, citigroup (ok, they didn't go to zero, but if you worked there, tell me about your 401k's), gm, fannie mae, freddie mac, gmac. i missed a few. oh - countrywide. washington mutual? i was at one of them and in the know. most people around me didn't believe me and got burnt. burnt bad. think it's not going to happen again? what changed? mf global? responsible management at the highest levels? come on. oh. aig. oops. it's different this time? bennie and timmie and big bad bama have fixed things? not to mention sarkozy and merkel.
how did they manage to do all of that? it's a fking miracle i tell you!
rsnoble... First an extended bank holiday... Followed by stringent currency controls, price controls, excise taxes, etc... Followed by more gutting of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution... Followed by enormous growth in gray/black markets. Already, in this area, flea/farmers markets are booming while shopping centers are dropping like flies.
Now is not a good time to have exposure to counter party risk.
Got PMs in your possession?
Problem-Reaction-Solution.
Decide what you want to do.
Crash the system - create the Problem
Media management of problem - control the Reaction
Once the sheeple beg you to save them...... - impose (final?) Solution
Simples!
On April 13, 2010, the Strategy, Policy and Review Department of the IMF published a comprehensive report[6] examining these aforementioned problems as well as other world reserve currency considerations, recommending that the world adopt a global currency called the "Bancor" and that a global central bank be established to administer such a currency. In this report, the current issues with having a national global reserve currency are addressed. The merits, difficulties and effectiveness of establishing a multi-currency reserve system are weighed against that of the SDRs, or "basket currency" strategy, and those of establishing this new "global reserve currency." A new multilateral framework and 'multi-polar system' for managing capital flows and national debts is also called for, but the IMF cautions that it prefers a gradual shift to this new framework, rather than a sudden change.
You think TPTB have'nt gamed out the above scenario?
Why do you think they are all on a gold, silver and energy buying craze while they sell paperbacked like its out of fashion?
Really, wanna bet some gold on that?
In a speech delivered in March 2009 entitled "Reform the International Monetary System", Zhou Xiaochuan, the governor of the People's Bank of China called Keynes's bancor approach "farsighted" and proposed the adoption of International Monetary Fund (IMF) Special Drawing Rights (SDRs) as a global reserve currency.
When even the (communist's) are Keynesians what hope is there for the current system?
we won't be allowed to keep our PM's! they want to impoverish everyone. can't have pockets of middle class pleebs carrying PM's around!
CI... Before China or the other BRICS will go along with SDRs they will demand a much larger place at the IMF table than the US and West is willing to give them.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the East to buy into SDRs in a big way.
Besides, the BIS has a very low opinion of the IMF and the BIS has a lot to say about what happens to the world financial system. They are not known as 'The Bank of International Settlements' for no reason.
Where is the logic in US foreign policy regarding ME?! They are supporting Saudi Arabia for god's sake! The country where 15 out of 19 hijackers of 9/11 came from! NONE came from Iran. They got even more fubar oppressive "government" than in Iran but USA happily sells them latest weapons technology, including state-of-the-art attack helicopters and jet fighters. Just like to Iran before 1979...
It's our oil. The deal was sealed years ago. Our oil for their defense. It's the unofficial official US policy (I can't even begin to understand where to put quotes in that statement.)
The American dollar is not only a price inflation tax on the American people but also on the people of the nations of the world whose central bank holds the American dollar as a reserve asset and also use the American dollar in trade with other nations.
must watch lindsey williams!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13gwAqOOxgg&feature=player_detailpage
KING DOLLAR
Once you believe in peak oil, all this just falls into place.A great vid on this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBiTnBwSWc
Excellent vid, thanks.
Hmmm, this sounds almost exactly what Dr. Albert Bartlett said 10 years ago in his presentation on "Arithmetic, Population and Energy"
What I would like to see, is a military alliance between Russia China India and Iran, if any1 gets attacked it's War!
China and India have strong economical reasons for not letting Iran get taken over by the Usrael, Russia strong political motivations, at least they could agree to some level of mutual support without triggering an all out world war, or park a few Russian and Chinese war ships in Iranian ports to scare off an initial US agression
Those are scary times when you have to look to countries like Russia and China to protect world peace
What I would like to see, is a military alliance between Russia China India and Iran, if any1 gets attacked it's War!
I believe that's exactly what's happening
...and I believe they're skipping right over the conventional war opiton, going straight to the thermonuclear option.
geezer... wiki Shanghai Cooperation Organization...
The Wiki link is old and needs updating but you will get the drift...
Here's an oldie but a goodie from Henry CK Liu... "USD hegemony"
http://henryckliu.com/page2.html
Paper money is like dram-drinking, it relieves for a moment by deceitful sensation, but gradually diminishes the natural heat, and leaves the body worse than it found it. Were not this the case, and could money be made of paper at pleasure, every sovereign in Europe would be as rich as he pleased. But the truth is, that it is a bubble and the attempt vanity. Nature has provided the proper materials for money: gold and silver, and any attempt of ours to rival her is ridiculous….
http://mises.org/daily/2942
They've tried this before. The last time, the Indian Prime Minister lost her job in fairly short order. If he's lucky, that's all that will happen to Mr. Singh. God help this miserable little space-rock we live on.
Off the subject - Greece's creditors leave Athens with no deal. From Reuters:
"http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/21/us-greece-idUSL6E8CL02J2012012..."
So it won't matter shortly what currency you use.
Next media propaganda talking point: Hindu extremist hate u for your freedoms
Scary Hindu's, the only warning you have will be mushroom clouds on the horizon... Hilarious.
No, it'll be even worse. Indian call centers will suddenly shut down and customer service will disappear for the 18 whomptillion defective Chinese products America needs for its survival. Check and mate, bitchez.
If they don't want our shitty irredeemable dollar for trade then there's really no reason for them to keep buying our shitty irredeemable debt which is denominated in those shitty irredeemable dollars. What a ponzi joke our money is. If it was redemptive in gold like it is supposed to be they would be beating down our doors to business. I guess Newt and Mitt and Obama are going to have to start dropping bombs again. They are so proud to have a currency backed exclusively by bombs and bullets.
Bilateral agreements independent of the reserve currency? That's like saying we agree to trade as long as we agree that money is a product of perception. Seriously, i ask all sef aware sentient beings: what do you believe when all your guides usher you to the grinder? And then say cool, you survived the mash.
FRNs are toilet paper and the world knows it.
The last grain of sand has fallen.
The oppressor’s Faustian bargain has ended.
Freedom and harmony is within grasping distance.
If we are bold enough to take it.
If our eyes are clear enough to see it.
If we are healthy enough to refuse aid to the vile impostors and usurpers already underfoot.
The illusions have faded like frost beneath the sun of understanding. And below for all to see are shackles and falsity and libel and rot. Thievery and corruption and grift. Instruments, unspeakable, to apply every torment possible to man and nature alike.
The silent sea of dead, yearns for a voice. “Honor us”, they say.
“That we haven’t died for profit, material comforts and the like”
“That we do not lie under the cornerstone of a global prison complex”
“For all will join us but it is better to do so with purpose surpassing idleness, vanity and diversions”
The demons fear such minds as ours. Their finely honed art is playing fiddle and whispering incantations to compel a miserable St. Vitus’ Dance upon all who listen. Resolve to dance to grace instead.
Our nature is not theirs. They have caused us to forget and we have abided.
But Lo! I see a lovingly-prepared tome beneath the Yggdrasil tree and it contains no empty promises or calls for docile slavery. It defers to no church, calls for no rituals and makes no demands on behalf of worm-eaten impotence.
Virtue is the path home and unconditional love and acceptance of self is the blade that ensures our safety on the perilous trek. Beware the brigands wielding fear, for they seek your inheritance. They know there is no road for them.
Their journey has completed and ours has begun. Take heart, fellows and love. This is the rightful foundation on which we shall replace their system.
http://culturalrespawning.wordpress.com/
What's inflation rate in India - "officially" 11? I bet it's more! Would INDIA prefer to pay in dollars or in the currency that they can print? Iran is in such a situation, they're willing to sell oil for ANY currency. The buyers of iranian oil have all the leverage. But Iran can't sell @ a discount and not to "lose their face." So they sell in Rupee, which is like selling @10% discount.
CPI has been running 18-20% since past 18-24 months. Indian govt. publishes WPI inflation which includes prices of hundreds of products , some of which does not exist anymore ... well alomost.
This shrinks the pool of non-US wealth available for the US money-printing to dilute to the benefit of the US government. It means that as the money-printing continues, the Fed will be forced to "expand its balance sheet" (a polite term for monetizing the debt) at a faster pace. It means that hyper-inflation will come even sooner because the effects of money printing will be harder and harder to "sequester" and "sterilize".
I like the constitution, but I hate the leaders. Bunch of friggin psychopaths. When people finally wake up in this country to these creeps, it is going to be an episode of "While you were away" with a really screwed up and hosed house.
If you are a baby boomer, please do something ethical for once in your miserable life and oppose this crap!! Because eventually the youth will tire of you and your wicked ways and throw you under the bus, but hey, you reap what you sow.
If you are a baby boomer, please do something ethical for once in your miserable life and oppose this crap!!
SFB
Retired? This is likely my guess. Probably hit a nerve. Boomers love to rationalize anything anyone could possibly imagine without really using sound reasoning and evidence, and my guess is that this retard whom responded to me is part of the problem I describe above.
Hope you have bought gold and silver, because you are not getting paid boomer!
I believe the U.S. will eventually attempt to unite Canada and Mexico to a shared currency and completely eliminate all trade barriers.
How dare India and Iran turn so un-patriotic by discontinuing dolars!!?
http://www.aintmymedia.com/
Or in this case a whole series of bilateral agreements that quietly seeks to remove the US currency as an intermediate
***************
I know I'll be junked off the board for this-but-
Oil is traded every day in currencies that do not include the USD as an intermediate-
Unless there was "some" law or some regulation that bars USD/world currency swaps-what the hell good would it do to impose some "rule that oil has to be sold in USD's?
Think about this-
If there was such a rule-what would stop Iran or "any" country from immediately going to the currency counter and swapping those USD's for whatever they wanted?
What possible effect would such a law have-when free swap/exchange trade exists amongst all currencies-
Would that not castrate this "myth of rule" that all oil must be sold in USD's?
There is no such rule.
That's why America uses military force to keep oil exporting nations pricing their oil in US dollars, like Iraq and Lybia for example.
But I don't think that military threat is going to work this time in Iran, with Russia China & India firmly on their side.
It might just lead to a big showdown. We'll have to wait and see.
Yes-Oil is priced in USD's as a world benchmark price-
If the Euros wanted to purchase Oil-they would simply buy that oil in Euro dollars at the current EUR/USD exchange rate-
What those oil exporting countries do with the currency they trade oil for is up to them-
I'm sure that whatever currencies they hold in reserves are all hedged somehow-
Major commodities are priced in USD and yes countries are "free" to purchase oil in any currency they want--"free" like being free to cross a busy street blindfolded. Central banks buy and hold USD at least equivalent to imports to prevent hyperinflation of their currencies.
I thought the debate as to whether or not commodities pricing in dollars results in dollar hegemony ended decades ago. I am seeing some arguing against it again but they are all hard core deflationists like Mike Shedlock. If their is a USD hegemony(and there is) then their deflationist theories fall apart.
Dollar hegemony will end at some point but it is a difficult thing to accomplish. Getting out from under a currency hegemony takes alot of time and risk but it is something that must be done. Eventually, the currency hegemon, in this case the U.S. takes advantage of the hegemony by printing at will. This is why QE in the U.S. is different than years of QE in Japan and why the U.S. is not Japan.
If their is a USD hegemony(and there is) then their deflationist theories fall apart.
*******************
The dollar is a senior currency-a reserve that's all-
Dollars-in fact any senior currency has little to do with deflation-
How can a paper currency deflate?
They just print them and once printed-they are always "somewhere"
Deflation comes from the contraction in credit/lending ie: un-payable debt-
Printing paper currency can somewhat offset/counter deflation like we've seen but when the credit market is leveraged to the currency market at 30 or more to 1 then I don't think the deflation theory falls apart at all-
so the usa forced everyone to choose sides over iran. in one step the usa loses 2/3 of the world population and half the world's gdp for love of israel and empire. so sanctions on iran result in an isolated usa dollar and a very vulnerable israel. something really stupid is in the works because these situations hava always called for the vanquished to do something really stupid.
Second biggest shock to the FX market post the Swissy unpeg of last year???
Working Paper No. 12/22: Surges Author/Editor: Ghosh, Atish R. ; Kim, Jun Il ; Qureshi, Mahvash Saeed ; Zalduendo, Juan Summary: This paper examines why surges in capital flows to emerging market economies (EMEs) occur, and what determines the allocation of capital across countries during such surge episodes. We use two different methodologies to identify surges in EMEs over 1980-2009, differentiating between those mainly caused by changes in the country's external liabilities (reflecting the investment decisions of foreigners), and those caused by changes in its assets (reflecting the decisions of residents). Global factors-including US interest rates and risk aversion¡-are key to determining whether a surge will occur, but domestic factors such as the country's external financing needs (as implied by an intertemporal optimizing model of the current account) and structural characteristics also matter, which explains why not all EMEs experience surges. Conditional on a surge occurring, moreover, the magnitude of the capital inflow depends largely on domestic factors including the country's external financing needs, and the exchange rate regime. Finally, while similar factors explain asset- and liability-driven surges, the latter are more sensitive to global factors and contagion.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/cat/longres.aspx?sk=25664.0
Working Paper No. 12/23: Are Rating Agencies Powerful? An Investigation into the Impact and Accuracy of Sovereign Ratings Author/Editor: Kiff, John ; Nowak, Sylwia Barbara ; Schumacher, Liliana Summary: We find that Credit Rating Agencies (CRA)’s opinions have an impact in the cost of funding of sovereign issuers and consequently ratings are a concern for financial stability. While ratings produced by the major CRAs perform reasonably well when it comes to rank ordering default risk among sovereigns, there is evidence of rating stability failure during the recent global financial crisis. These failures suggest that ratings should incorporate the obligor’s resilience to stress scenarios. The empirical evidence also supports: (i) reform initiatives to reduce the impact of CRAs’ certification services; (ii) more stringent validation requirements for ratings if they are to be used in capital regulations; and (iii) more transparency with regard to the quantitative parameters used in the rating process.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/cat/longres.aspx?sk=25665.0