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Inevitable Spiral Equity Collapse, Biderman's 'Better Early Than Late' Call To Sell Into Strength

Tyler Durden's picture


It's the end of deficit spending in Europe as we know it. That's how Charles Biderman, of TrimTabs, rightly describes the unwilling-to-compromise German's (perhaps heroic) attitude to their fellow European sovereigns. From his perspective, this forced austerity will mean slower growth and with that all chance that the European nations can 'grow/tax' their way out of this charade. He notes there is simply no way they can grow fast enough to be able to kick the can far enough down the road for it to matter. Pointing to his 'better early than late' calls on markets over the last 40 years, the man from Sausalito sees it as inevitable that the practical insistence on the elimination of deficit spending will force banks into bankruptcy, leading, as asset values are marked down, to a spiral collapse in equities. He then dismisses the simple-minded decoupling perspective as if no new Keynesian-inspired 'technology shift' occurs, US growth will be in the doldrums as European deleveraging drags global growth down with it. It's not all doom-and-gloom though as he ends on the upbeat notion that this collapse won't happen tomorrow, given balance sheet strength, although selling into rallies is the clear picture he is painting.

(h/t @ZH_Crown)


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Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:34 | 1967042 Atomizer
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Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:06 | 1967080 economics1996
economics1996's picture

He didn't say anything we haven't heard 100 times before.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:54 | 1967394 CPL
CPL's picture

He didn't say anything we weren't discussing a year and a half ago.  Between then and now the deficits in most countries have jumped 50-100%, the US has hit it's "debt ceiling" twice already, with the third this year coming on the 16th of December.


All we are seeing from this lad is the tiniest amount of contrition of the remote possibility that the concept of market backed capitalism is dead.  To a CEO of a third tier services market that pushes weight loss pills on hour long infomercials, my skepticism remains firmly in place.  Not because of the nature of Trim Tabs as a business, but to this man and many other business people over the age of 60, it is a completely taboo subject.


Their lives have always been Bullish, the concept of them being wrong as a herd just cannot be.  To this group, it's completely impossible that everything that they worked for will be destroyed because of central banks colluding and undermining their businesses with inflation, taxation and theft. 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:36 | 1967432 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Reverting to communism and barter is soooo appealing.  Let’s murder another 200 million while we are at it.  That purchasing power parity of $9 grand per year s so appealing.  Let’s all become communist and start murdering each other for a few decades.  WTF make the PPP $300 per year.  Who needs a house anyway?

Yea right.

What you fail to see is that capitalism works perfectly, if you let the bad guys go out of business.  When it collapses it will not be the end of capitalism but the rebirth of capitalism stronger than before.  Getting rid of corruption and misallocated resources is what capitalism is all about.  I will rejoice when it fails because that means all the bad guys will be getting their justice.

Communist thugs look at it as a opportunity for power.  I look at it as a opportunity to cleanse the air of all the thugs and bad guys.  If you have tattoos you might want to remove them before TSHTF.  Just saying.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:09 | 1967452 CPL
CPL's picture

I live in the sticks, own a farm and run engineering projects.  I've never even had a piercing.  My hair cuts run military style, over #3 and that's hippy hair.

Communism...barter...whatever.  You understand that money, fiat money is a relatively new idea.  Every attempt of it has failed.  Not one or two times, everytime.  And by everytime, I mean everytime through out all human history.  Voltarie famous for his quote: "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - zero." (Voltaire, 1694-1778).

Not making this up either, history has excellent examples of situations that were WAY better funded and under leveraged that collapsed overnight.  When people discuss the great depression of the US, they point to it as the model.  It's not.  All that we are watching is a herd of humans deeply in denial over their options.  They simply have to options left, so they pray, lie to one another, tap dance around the problem while it gets bigger and bigger.

Right now, we are talking leveraged markets in the 50x range.  Consumer debt to equity ratios that are 1:1.  Roughly 18% underemployment, 9% unemployment, 8% on welfare.  Things are not in great shape.  There are only two ways  way to repair the current system.

Interest rates must go to 37.4% for home loans and 67% for regular small/business loans to properly allow the credit collapse to happen, while not graceful, it will cease all ridiculious over leveraged positions.  Since that isn't going to happen, the darker path of Keynesian logic will be chosen.  Print, print, print.  Inflation is a bitch as well in this situation.

To attempt to moderate the spending cycles of credit the Kenysian MUST, not choses to, jack up interest rates.  Here's the problem at hand.  Nobody is.  The central bank interest rates go past 1% and all hell breaks loose on corporate and consumer debt.  So what is going to happen? 

Does that make people MORE or LESS causious with their capital?

Does gold and silver become the defacto standard for trade?  (probably not, I'm seeing oil take this role.  The FX currency trade versus the PM bloc, it's pretty easy to see who is winning.  Over a single three year span against S&P performance, they are up 150%


Market Capitalism with fractional reserve banking is literally asking for a poorly designed economic solution that self destructs, EVERYTIME.  When this all collapses, not if, when.  Capitalism will still be around.  Only the assholes that ran it to it's conclusion will be flat broke and busted.  The rest of us however I think will do just fine until they reboot the system and the "new" currencies are established. 


What those are, you and I have no clue as to the what they are?  I would hazard a guess someone has a couple of ideas though.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:22 | 1967464 economics1996
economics1996's picture

I think we both understand the problem perfectly and agree on the collapse.  We differ in our interpretation of capitalism.

To me capitalism is not a central bank and federal government sponsored cartels.  We have gone away from capitalism starting with Teddy Roosevelt and the Federal Reserve.  Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare, Department of Education, social justice, affirmative action, and so forth.  All these government interference in the free capitalist marketplace is the cause of the blow up, not capitalism.

If we had capitalism, limited federal government, none of this blow up would be happening.  The problems are the parasites in the federal government and the central banks.  When it implodes these institutions will be wiped out as we know them today.  It would not be that preposterous to see the United States break up into several countries.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:45 | 1967476 redpill
redpill's picture

What has dawned on the Greeks is what is slowly dawning on the rest of the Western world.  We are going down.  The only question is whether we force the bankers to go down with us or let them become our oligarchs.  We can either go through the dark time and re-emerge a free people, or we can allow the bankers to turn us into tightly fenced milking cows that do nothing but eat, shit, and pay interest, perpetually.  I'll take option A, gladly.  But it's not easy to get people to wake up enough to make that choice.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:26 | 1967507 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

from 500bc  (oh excuse me, we can't say bc anymore because it irritates certain parties) , oh i mean 500 bce till now, the greeks have come a long way..........

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 15:35 | 1968000 eureka
eureka's picture

RE: "the unwilling-to-compromise German's (perhaps heroic) attitude to their fellow European sovereigns"

NOTA BENE:  The only EU sovereign "unwilling" to fiscal restraint is: UK. 

UK - the appendix to US - hence my term the USUKs - is "unwilling" precisely because it has a 1000% debt to GDP ratio and London is home to the world's biggest scumbag bankster hedegefunds and oligarchs, which and whom EU wants to regulate and restrict.

Let it be clear and known then - that it is the ANGLO-JEWISH METHOD - also false known as the Anglo-Saxon ditto - and its USUK bankster-mafia which:

A) rigged the world with garbage paper - and

B) is "unwilling" to enforce regimes of fiscal restraint - as in US Fed monetizing and bailouts

Continental EU will win - USUKs will fail.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:06 | 1967746 trav7777
trav7777's picture

oil is not going to unpeak no matter what we do with this stupid credit system.

You people need to wrap your heads around that.  The credit effects are a SYMPTOM, not a cause.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:24 | 1967466 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Very very well said all around CPL.


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:16 | 1967493 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

ok cpl. 


what if they said enough. and allowed it to colllapse. what scenerio do you see in such a situation?   another words, which would be worse?  the deflationary collapse or weimar?

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:47 | 1967550 CPL
CPL's picture

That's the central problem of Keynesian design.  It has outlets to work off the steam and pressure in the system, it's interest rates.


A general consensus of the situation regarding interest rates hasn't even been approached.  You know how the fractional reserve with central banking dealt with these issues before Clinton.  They jacked up interest rates.  Depending on what age we all are, if sentient during the 80's and 90's, it wasn't unheard of to obtain a bank loan for 45% with GREAT credit.  For home loans they ran from 12-23% depending on the week literally.  People saved hard for a large down payment on a home.  It was better business to save money than borrow.


Deflation to a guy like me, is a good thing.  I save my money.  However we are given the option in a deflationary cycle to really put the screws to anyone that owes money.  The forces people, businesses and governments to smarten up and consider purchases.  I can accept that interest rates would be in the 1-5% range on savings, but my pile of money will be worth something at the end of the day


Inflation, to a guy like me, is a bad thing as I save my money.  So to capitalize in that situation, it is in my best interests to pull every ounce of credit tied to me and max it out.  We can see what happens with that.  Credit dries up, locks down and freezes everything from credit card companies to LIBOR.  Right now it's the reason all the US, Asian and Euro banks are constantly re-capitalizing.  It's literally 'free' money.  That situation puts me in jeopardy because I've over extended myself with leverage I really didn't need to use in the first place.  Like people that use their margin for long trades, all that needs to happen is margin call. 


What we are all looking at here is a broken system run to it's logical conclusion.  If the TPTB want to use fractional reserve lending with Fiat under Keynesian practices then they have to use the tools available to manage it.  The longer they wait, the higher the interest rates have to be.  When the model hits 1:1, as in the only way to salvage the scraps from the system is to move interest rates to 100%, that's when the engine stops working.


Every time they print it pushes up the ratio, every extra dollar of liquidity in the system leveraged which needs more money to re leverage the carry trade.  Rinse and repeat.  Over and over and over again.  We all know that this has been the process for the last 30 years, it's in the last 3.5 years that it has become awful, yet we aren't using the tools as prescribed by the originator of the Keynesian theory and design.


If I build a car without brakes how many do you think I could sell? 


To be honest, it doesn't matter.  What I can promise you though I will not have any repeat customers unless the customer has a four leaf clover shoved up their ass and blessed by the almighty. 


This is the situation we are in.  No brakes in the financial system and everyone riding in that system is starting to notice the car is a out of control.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 13:11 | 1967609 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

the question is not, "what will be the most important good?", that is obviously oil, the question is,"which good will trade for oil?"


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:09 | 1967755 trav7777
trav7777's picture

again, no amount of credit bullshit is going to resurrect Cantarell or any other oil field that is in terminal decline.

Just get over it, get over your stupid savings and your stupid expectations of money "making money" by the pure magic of growth.  Get over your idiotic capitalism vs socialism false dilemmas.  NONE of it matters.

Nature is at the plate now.  The count is 3-1. 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:15 | 1967763 CPL
CPL's picture

Trav, you might be an asshole, but you don't sugar coat.  I would have to completely agree, even as much as it pisses me off.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:15 | 1967490 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

The Question is HOW to make sure that the wealthy don't capture the government.

And frankly to thnk the wealthy and powerful Won't try and capture the guv is naive.

So is thinking you an Cut the guv down to nothng and Still have a free market. Nature abors a vacuum.

The Wealthy will ALWAYS attempt to use their $ to control and capture a economy and guv.

The true question is how to have a guv that will protect We The People over the monopolistic tendencies of the ultra-wealthy.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:32 | 1967525 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

well what did john adams say?   without Christianity involved in its highest levels , this sort of government will not work.......... 


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."


it is the only way to make such a democratic republic work.  if a man does not fear God, then why should he fear any of us?   this type of system requires constant vigilence by its citizens. this part and parcel is called citizenship. for many, the "freedoms" we have enjoyed have been mistaken to be excuses to live their own lives within their own little bubbles . the masonic idea of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness is nonsense....

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:55 | 1967576 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Thats why people have to keep the pressure up on the current ganrenous tax code -- not just sound money. The tax code serves the rich/corporation and domesticates the poor, a bastardization of christian teachings.

Romney is able to throw around $10,000 bets because he pays 11% effective taxation. The typical citizen may have every domestic need met, with a tax credit for this, deduction for that, but the system makes sure they average $10,000 in net worth heading into retirement.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:02 | 1967449 IamMarla
IamMarla's picture

well said CPL

it is hard for the soft underbelly of those who had little creativity and no innovation and made literally a killing stealing and selling snake oil to the barely conscious masses. Most of these boys are on their knees wondering what happened.

Its OK there is plenty of room in the pasture.

Germany will not do a reply of the early 20th century again as I have said before. Germans are not willing to be reamed and the rich know there is a fine line in Deutschland between distaste and murder look into the radicals of the late 70's in the Bundesrepublik.... That psycho just got paroled (-D 

I am Marla's total indifference.

games have to end


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:12 | 1967457 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Letting the bad guys go bankrupt would include the central banks, bloated governments, and the elites on Wall Street.  Capitalism is what you want.  It is a wonderful disinfectant.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:09 | 1967487 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

germany won't do it again because they have totally been brainwashed and feminized......from the germanic  tribes that faced off against the roman legions and held them to a stand still to the pussies that are living there now.......its a long way they have come.  when you consider the history of the germanic peoples all the way back to roman times, one can surmise a tremendous prejudice by the world against them, it seems.....strange , no?  for example. what a problem it must have been for the mixed race romans to look toward the rhine and see all of those white, blue eyed, blond haired and free men running around without a owner........from the day they were discovered by the romans, even perhaps before during ancient times as these tribes spread out across this area, coming from the mesopotamia and the levante, i suggest , it has always been a problem for some. this problem continues to this very day. 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:11 | 1967760 trav7777
trav7777's picture


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 19:32 | 1968491 IamMarla
IamMarla's picture

So you took a great deal of (American) history at school that is very nice for you. Are you still paying for your higher education? I am not.

You forget that the Teutonic peoples (from the far north and more related to the Scandinavian tribes) were only one group and those who held off the Romans were the Goths, Swabian, Alleman, and Germanian tribes (all of whom are not as blond) many of which were the Vanals who sacked Rome and did not pillage or harm the people.

A little side note to your mesopotamia reference Farsi (Persian) and German have a startling number of words that are pronounced the same and have the same meaning.

Further Europeans are mixed every place you go unless you get up near the Arctic circle where no body wants to hang out all on a daily basis unless they are allergic to warm weather.

and I like Clint Eastwood


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 17:33 | 1968268 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

THe one thing is: Absent major technology productivity. This is the only caveat in Gold  case. It is a not very likely but it is a logical one. You can not grow by exports, you can not continue to kick the can. The only way our is massive productivity gains, hence technology. Watch material sciences, there are a lot of new applications coming from there, but It will still be too late in my opinion. 

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:09 | 1967083 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Nein. Since the Luftwaffe, the Kriegsmarine, and the Waffen-SS are no more, nothing can be enforced. There will be no "austerity". They are printing now, will continue to do so, and the collapse will come via hyperinflation...and/or Iran War black swan.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:22 | 1967100 johnu78
johnu78's picture

What the hell are you talking about?


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 02:44 | 1967268 Michael
Michael's picture

I really don't like being considered collateral of the federal government.

After the collapse, could we please have abolished, The Act of 1871?

I know it's just a legalese determination of who I really am, but I'd like to, for what few decades are left of my life, live knowing I am owned by no one.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:38 | 1967297 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Micheal, being owned or otherwise is a matter of the mind, if no-one owns you, or rather "thinks' they do, how does it matter? Born free mate...



Sun, 12/11/2011 - 13:35 | 1967671 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Then you must ditch the GF, your dog (dogs own their "owners"), your cellphone, your facebook, your kakhis, your ....

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:06 | 1967403 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

If I want to get out of my vehichle I will just roll down the window.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:26 | 1967104 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Unfortunately, inevitably, those who were chasing stock prices up to these levels (and maybe higher) are the least likely to think time to sell is anytime soon. Cognitive biases also play against momentum buyers.

As a marginally "conscientious" investor, I refuse to participate in an auction where prices are being bid up and down completely independently of the value of the underlying asset even if I'm certain I can make a buck or two "flipping" the asset in the process. I looked up in the game theory terminology, but couldn't find a term for an auction where participants do not know the object of the auction.


Fuck market liquidity-rationalizers.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:15 | 1967154 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

I looked up in the game theory terminology, but couldn't find a term for an auction where participants do not know the object of the auction.


Try looking up 'ponzi' or 'pyramid scheme'. :D

On a more serious note, the equity markets are tangential to the actual game going on.  Game theory is applicable in terms of the currency wars / default chicken being played.  The two-actor game between the ECB and the Fed is remarkable because neither can afford the other's currency to implode.  So you get Timmay taking the red-eye over to Sarkozy's pub twice a week essentially to protect the USD debasement, which is necessary to prevent a 25% pullback in US Stocks and a crushing blow to GDP from a ballooning trade deficit.  Euro has the same problem, but they're on the other end of the teeter-totter and cannot afford the bag-holding banks (and, oh yeah, China) to face-plant on the toxic debt they show on their balance sheets.  The whole thing is built on quicksand and the sock puppets are engaged in a staring contest (well, Sark-puppet is prolly sipping a $1000 bordeaux).

OK, I'm off my soapbox...



Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:00 | 1967184 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Or Jon Corzine could just steal your money from your trading account?  Blatent THEFT by the house has now entered the casino, you get up to take a piss and the dealer rakes your chips.  Fuck that.

GM Bondholders should have been the wake up call for everyone to leave the table, but now they will just take your money like a thief in the night.  Poof it's gone......

I want to know how South Park is frontrunning this shit. 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:17 | 1967282 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Art Trumps All

The one thing the Illuminatti will never have is a muse on their shoulder.  look at how fast Jack London ran away from Bohemia!

They can create Brittney like a bowl full of jelllo, but they can't create Jimi!  They can't create Lennon, or Dylan, or Willie!

The greatest question about science fiction is how does science fiction create possible science concepts?

We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of the dreams

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 07:35 | 1967327 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

and sometimes art is all we have left.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:31 | 1967339 machineh
machineh's picture

Then they designate it as "entartete Kunst" and arrest you as a "dissident intellectual."

See no evil, comrade. Stick to safe elephant and donkey graphics in red white 'n blue.

Two parties, one bright future! ;-)

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:37 | 1967380 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

I have the impression that they are more interested in wearing powdered wigs and commandeering the future Mozarts for their "enrichessment culturelle".

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:16 | 1967488 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

"our society is run by insane people for insane objectives.  I think we're being run by maniacs for manical ends and i think I'm liable to be put away for expressing it.  That's what's insane about it".  John Lennon.

Well we know now he was shot under pretenses that a crazy man from Hawaii thought he was Holden Cauldfield from the Catcher in the Rye.  Peter Tosh who was calling bullshit on this whole system was also shot.  

"To have the truth in your possession you can be found guilty, sentenced to death".  Tosh.


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 13:16 | 1967624 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

mr marley too. 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:15 | 1967766 trav7777
trav7777's picture doesn't.

That's the thing you downing effected people don't get.  The scientists are MORE creative than you are.  They come up with shit you can't even grasp nor comprehend and your stupid little "imagination" or whatever you think you're good as as a conceit to cover for your inadequacy in math isn't the indispensible portion of the creative process.

Jimi Hendrix isn't a pile of shit in the overall scheme of things, nor are all the self-important artists in the history of the world.  People like Orville and Wilbur Wright piss on them.

Art trumps nothing...go paint me a fucking oil well.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:16 | 1967492 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Found something good and just wanted to share it.

NO I'm not one of these obnoxious pest that post links to my own blog. This is legit and I opine worth checking out.


If nothing else at least some thoughts to ponder till the Tylers wake up?


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:17 | 1967495 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Found something good and just wanted to share it.

NO I'm not one of these obnoxious pest that post links to my own blog. This is legit and I opine worth checking out.


If nothing else at least some thoughts to ponder till the Tylers wake up?


Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:52 | 1967051 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



The Euro now stands for...........

European Union of Remorseful Overspenders

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:59 | 1967074 JenkinsLane
JenkinsLane's picture

Amen brother.

UK government debt was approximately £350bn in 1997, was approximately £850bn in 2010 and is projected to hit £1500 bn around April 2016 and that's *with*



Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:38 | 1967179 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

So in real terms, is that an increase or decrease?

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:19 | 1967285 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:52 | 1967233 Hansel
Hansel's picture

But money is backed by government debt, so that means you are richer...?  I don't understand the whole gov't debt - austerity - currency debate.  In this system the only people that have money first got it from the Fed/Euro/BoE because the central banks are the only ones that create money, and they only made the money to buy gov't debt.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 02:10 | 1967244 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



Allow me to help eliminate your confusion.     Austerity abruptly imposed in a debt-based monetary system is akin to removing heroin from a pipette addict on his last legs.

Obviously severe austerity in such a system is suicidal.   Therefore severe austerity will not happen - at least not in the degree necessary to balance the books.   Austerity enough for political purposes, yes.   But not make-a-difference austerity.

Bottomline to what comes next:    a particular and diverse group of people is about to get screwed out of pretty much everything they've worked for in lieu of austerity.   I think you can deduce what group that is by now.



Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:20 | 1967287 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

the herion junkies

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:36 | 1967343 machineh
machineh's picture

"Sire, the masses have no bread!"

"Then let them shoot junk. They'll never notice! And it'll drive economic recovery in Afghanistan!"

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:33 | 1967340 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Well said
Half of th EZ thinks it's only like giving up smoking - and that the heroine addicts are the "over 7% budgeters"

Funnily, balancing budgets will be easier for the Italians and others than for the Germans. We will see...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:27 | 1967508 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Hansel that is correct.

Print the money .

Buy the gov debt (freddie and fannie)

Now the fed is the EVIL national overload and landlord to boot.

Print the money.


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:31 | 1967376 blueridgeviews
blueridgeviews's picture

I'm not so sure they are remorseful.

Scared that they are near the end of the road as they know it is more likely.

The big players are probably singing "it's the end of the road as we know it and I feel fine."

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:07 | 1967747 11b40
11b40's picture

The big players are probably singing "it's the end of the road as we know it and I feel fine."

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:34 | 1967385 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Yes, it won't be long before they descend to our standard of living.  Gloat! Gloat!

What gets me is that we Americans are mad at our system for funneling all of our hard-earned savings to the likes of MF Global and the TBTFs by a corrupt legislature, so that we have to helplessly stand by and watch our standard of living sink to the level of rural Chinese. But at the same time, the Europeans, who, truth be told, have a relatively much higher standard of living than we do because somehow their tax-dollars get funneled back into public expenditures that help everyone rather than pay for black-ops, Gitmo, 50,000 bases all over the solar system, a new war every two years, extraordinary rendition, waterboarding, airport skanners for babies that cause skin cancer, military drones to spy on American citizens, consultant fees to gut the constitution, etc, etc, etc--this is something we simply cannot tolerate. Bizarre.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:40 | 1967052 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Lorenz attractor.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:41 | 1967053 kito
kito's picture

It's the end of deficit spending in Europe as we know it.

.....would that be "officially" or "unofficially"?......................

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:29 | 1967108 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

They are taking deficit-spending to a whole new level: if it's broken, don't fix it, break it some more ... if it's not broken, then what the hell are you waiting for?

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:39 | 1967119 Seer
Seer's picture

There's a meeting on this next week, to discuss whether any declaration of the notion is official or not.

Should be good to hold the markets up for another week...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:23 | 1967288 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

are these meetings about the next meeting or is there every really a meeting about anything other than meeting about meeting, because if they want to save some money they should quit having all of these meetngs

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:47 | 1967391 chubbar
chubbar's picture

I'm confused by reading all these comments about austerity and/or the results of the ECB meeting being without result. You guys did see what came out of that meeting, right? The ECB agreed to:

a) provide an UNLIMITED amount of debt financing to eurozone banks for a period of THREE YEARS, and

 b) accept lower-quality collateral as security for the loans it makes to banks.

Doesn't that look like commercial banks now have the ability to monetize euro bonds with the direct backing of the ECB? Isn't this similar to our primary dealers buying treasuries with money supplied by the FED?


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:00 | 1967400 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

correct - EZ commercial banks super-stuffed with EuroBonds are from now OK as a crisis resolution mechanism, thanks to the whole EZ agreeing and the UK's dash to have the City of London's financial companies excempted from EU "strong supervision" slapped down.

this means now the EZ functions as an inner core in financial matters - expect nationalizations and/or forced recapitalizations, perhaps a Tobin Tax, etc. etc. EZ wants them "stodgy" and will apply state force to make them so.

It is similar only in part with the Primary Dealer deal in the US - the mechanics are the same while the structure of the banking systems is quite different.

The only oulier and strange dog in the equation is Deutsche Bank - I have no clue there, perhaps a forced spin-off?

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:34 | 1967806 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Since John Corzine likes long complex analogies to
How much leverage he used while stacking REPoS againt REVERSE REPOS to segargated accounts go up in smoke while he got free finacing from the FED , yet maintains his no expert.

Heres my analogy as to what really happened.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:49 | 1967560 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Theres probably a meeting for search party to find the next JohnCorzine,,

Do we see a pattern here? Enron , Aig, MF global.)

Heres the pattern. At least the one followed by JC Flowers.

1) buy a company. (shell)

2) replace all AUDIt People, chief risk people, and internal controls people.

3) place your best friend as CEO

4). Buy insurance from JC Flowers that the place burns to the ground.

5)set fire to the building and call the rating agency to explain building is fire.

6)while the building is on fire , have J C Flowers and Private
Equity deliver a truck load of boxes labeled Euro Soverign Debt which is the toxic shit , and it into the fire.

7). From getaway jet, on a laptop,
Change the fine print in the prospectus of MF Global to

"match book Accounting"
Shorts = Longs
Repos = reverse Repos

Free financing the the FED.
In case of liquidty trap;

What is yours in now ours, or the boards.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:37 | 1967344 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I see it more as a beuty contest.
Austerity is like dieting
Some are fatter then others,
not all have to diet the same to win the contest...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:01 | 1967398 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Definition: Austerity=wealth transfer from poor/middleclass to ultra-rich via reallocation of Federal Expenditures toward interest expense, given that the principal can never be touched plus increased taxes on  poor/middleclass who do not have access to secret, untraceable offshore tax-havens.

Here's how it works.  Money that was previously paid into programs that directly or indirectly benefit the non-ultrawealthy are instead directed to increased payments of interest on the perpetual debt which can never be reduced. This interest flows directly to the ultra-wealthy who then use the City of London to stash it away in secret offshore tax-havens which currently have a sequestered sum of $20 trillion.

Thus, we have shown

Theorem: DWR = -DW99.999%ers  where DWR is the change in wealth for the ultra-rich and DW99.999%ers represents the change in wealth of everyone else.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:19 | 1967401 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

oh, for Pete's sake! I am talking about austerity in the EZ.

the Ultra-Rich? It's an American Obsession. Yes, there are a few "Oligarchs", and yes, some of them profit from the through.

But the real "winners" in the contest of "shearing the US sheep" are not single persons, it's whole industries and "greater interests". Mostly unfettered corporate interests, really. Greater Idiocies require Committees or Boards of Directors.

For example the Military-Industrial Complex, that gives lots of jobs and convinces daily the US that you need weapons for the next 100 wars, now! And keeps you scared, so that you need some 400m private firearms on top of the biggest army/navy the world ever had.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:20 | 1967416 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Or the "Tax Complex" that gives lots of highly paid jobs just to fill out tax forms, profit from dodges, etc.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:21 | 1967417 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Or the "Housing Complex", that tries to convince you that you have to buy a house (just the shame of renting, uh), now, and it has to have four times more space that what you really need. Now. Don't save for it, idiot. Buy now, pay later.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:21 | 1967419 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Or the "Food Complex", that tries to stuff you (literally) with decreasing quality and increasing quantities.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:22 | 1967422 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Or the "Food Complex", that tries to stuff you (literally) with decreasing quality and increasing quantities.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:32 | 1967521 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

The 'Food Complex' got you so bothered that you had to post about it in duplicate, eh Ghordius?

As I said to you before ZH is US-centric which means they're interpretation of events in Europe come in the form of a market 'capitalist' perspective. For most of them, the historic perspective/relevance is nil. Myopic market analysis is relevant, no doubt, but also limited in scope.

MIC, 'Food Complex, Sports Industry etc etc will all persist under the current monetary set-up. Don't expect change anytime soon.

Mon, 12/12/2011 - 04:20 | 1969324 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

perhaps I was hungry

yes, I agree

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:27 | 1967426 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

And to come back to arms, armies and navies.

 - The US spends half the military budget of the world.

 - Twice as much as the next twelve militaries of the planet - of which half are allies.

 - Has 90% of the privately held weapons of this mudball.

And the most scared population of all.

Panicked, scared, tense, convinced "someone is there to get them", hyperventilating, popping pills to calm down. Why?

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:01 | 1967448 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

I'm not scared. Well...I guess I am.
I'm scared that the Washington Empire will continue to grow.
I'm scared that the rising police state will reach a level that I cannot tolerate.
I'm scared that if I act in defense of freedom and liberty, I will be killed by the police state.
I'm scared that my family will be targeted by the police state after I'm gone.
I am convinced that 'someone is there to get me, but unfortunately, it's the Washington Empire.

I don't think that's what you meant about Americans being scared, but that's where I'm at.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 16:24 | 1968130 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Ultimately, cui bono? You say corporate interests. Is there ultimately any real difference between that and an oligarchy? Aren't the corps just acting as pass-throughs for the wealth they confiscate? Consider TBTF banks.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:26 | 1967788 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes, austerity is the backside of the compound interest function where the usurer ends up coming and physically taking the ground under your feet in the land your forefathers built.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:47 | 1967060 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Why would Mitt bet 10k on stage?

I'm an average American! I have 10k to piss away on a pointless bet. Just a run of the mill American.


Go get em Ron!

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:59 | 1967135 saiybat
saiybat's picture

The average American is on government assistance.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:04 | 1967142 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Does that include 10k in chips to las Vegas Sands?


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:24 | 1967289 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


vegas baby!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:38 | 1967345 machineh
machineh's picture

How do you build your IRA up to $10,000?

Start with $50,000! I'M IN!!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 07:49 | 1967329 supafuckinmingster
supafuckinmingster's picture

The average bum is on assistance...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:14 | 1967283 FlyPaper
FlyPaper's picture

Because:  Mitt is trying to make Perry put his money where his mouth is and it was a challenge to his integrity on this comments.   Perry didn't hold up very well.

And yes: GO RON!   The fact that he's there brining up very real issues is a great service to Americans.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:46 | 1967478 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Good point. I think he may regret the large number. He should have done a charity bet to give the dems less ammo.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:38 | 1967298 dolph9
dolph9's picture

Is there anybody out there who still thinks that one of these jokers is preferable to the Kenyan socialist in chief?

We're fucked.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:37 | 1967342 Thadeous
Thadeous's picture

If you don't think Ron Paul is better than Obama, I feel sorry for you.


Unless you were only in reference to Mitt/Perry, in that case "carry on".

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 15:46 | 1968026 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Ron Paul should win Iowa-unless the disease of the Penetecosal Zio-"Christians" has rotted the foundations of that great State (the State of my origin) Today's sorry pathetic state of Christianity -as evidenced by the nutcake Evangelicals  -really exemplifies the sorry state and decay of this once great nation. In a time when we really need moral. responsible intelligent Christians to act as an offset agaisnt the moral decay and degeneracy of the Sodomites and Gomorites - today's 'Christians" are no better at all. Imagine, Rick Perry lecturing Newt and fatihfulness and morality last night. What a joke. The likely true story on Rick perry probably  came out when a guy named  Robbert Morrow put out a full page add on Perry in the Austin Observer in Austin a couple of months ago about Rick Perry's sexcapades. Got a little coverage around the country, but for the most part was ignored. The elitists want sex perverts in the White House. They can be controlled. They probably have a video Newt having sex with a dog or something  -that may be why  he's so slavishly loyal to israel and the banksters  -they own him. Same for the cokehead sex perverts Clinton, Bush and Obama. 

Sorry folks, but that's the way of the world.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:47 | 1967062 prains
prains's picture

The collapse may not happen tomorrow but a triple by pass sure as hell will

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:25 | 1967290 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

the patient is dead and you want to do a triple bypass

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:11 | 1967334 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Insurance will pay for it, so why not?

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:48 | 1967064 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Had a few drinkees before going on your webcam on your little Sausalito balcony overlooking the Bay?

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:34 | 1967102 jomama
jomama's picture

it was a gorgeous evening, er, morning in marin. 

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:23 | 1967103 Flocking swans
Flocking swans's picture

...."better early than late" ....

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:33 | 1967114 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

He should've said: better early late than late late

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:54 | 1967067 xela2200
xela2200's picture

"rightly describes the unwilling-to-compromise German's attitude to their fellow European sovereigns"

Germany is NOT the bad guy here. The father land is the only thing keeping the Euro alive.

Took Chile a decade (1970s) to find the way. Germany did it twice in the 20th century, and they will do it again. When they emerge out this mess, they will be one of the top dogs.

Japan tried the keyne's way, and it still struggling.

Austerity --> Only a stupid politician can make fiscal responsibility sound like some sort of illness.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:38 | 1967117 i-dog
i-dog's picture

  "Only a stupid politician can make fiscal responsibility sound like some sort of illness."

+1. Nice touch!

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:42 | 1967124 Seer
Seer's picture

"Germany is NOT the bad guy here. The father land is the only thing keeping the Euro alive."

I'm confused.  Is this or is this not a bad thing?

I thought people here didn't condone the Euro.  If that's the case, then why should people applaud Germany for being the entity that's keeping it together?

Sounds more like a goat than a hero...  Sold too many BMWs on credit...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:07 | 1967204 TK7936
TK7936's picture

In Austrian Economics its the BMW that equals wealth not the credit. As for the Euro, as long as it doesn't hyper-inflate there is no need to get rid of it. Same goes for any currency. If the Euro would crash 50 % against the dollar it would still be as valuable as the D Mark was at its best times. So ALOT of shit has to hit the eurofan before it stops turning.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:27 | 1967291 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

fiat has no intrinsic value

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:08 | 1967205 economicminor
economicminor's picture

Except as I read it, Germany provided the cheap lending that enabled the Piigs to over spend. This was done to benefit Germany because without the cheap loans, the Piigs wouldn't have bought so many German products and then the Germans wouldn't have had the growth in industry.  So Germany used Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy to benefit German producers and as a way of recirculating the profits made from such. A very good deal for Germany until the insolvency showed up..

The US is in a similar situation. Only ours was not even profits but just a wildly out of control printing press run by the FED and its friends.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:46 | 1967228 TK7936
TK7936's picture

It sounds like a scheme but it isnt. German Banks didnt supply credit more or less than other countries. All Banks supplied Sub prime Credit all over the world. Also there is no control over how the credit is invested, I bought a french car financed by a spanish bank. A Greek might as well have bought a Toyota financed from Comerzbank. There is no auto alocate back to Germany Feature. If there were all the credit might a well just stay in the german economy, there is no reason to export it.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 02:21 | 1967254 Seer
Seer's picture

Somebody gets it!

Really, people, what fucking good is wealth if you can't spend it?  And what good is being able to produce shit if people can't afford it?

Can't push on a string.

If you read some actual comments coming from BMW it's already looking to see its production drop off.  If they were to state otherwise they'd lose all credibility.

Sub prime leases...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 07:53 | 1967330 supafuckinmingster
supafuckinmingster's picture

"So Germany used Greece, Spain, Portugal and Italy to benefit German producers and as a way of recirculating the profits made from such. "


Don't forget Ireland it that.......the basked case of european basket cases.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:54 | 1967354 Kalevi
Kalevi's picture

To add to your post, which I agree with completely, how many people actually OWN their Beemers and Merc's?

Credit, most of us are guilty, a lot Beemers on the books of banks.

Thankfully so, I'm better off then most, no income tax, renting a house for 400$ month and no plans what so ever to buy a house with the current bloated prices, a fully paid ranch where I can grow enough food to survive but no way it is to generate any cash for all the trappings we need today.

My only sin is the biggest baddest truck ever come from GM, on credit...

But you can't be all good, sometimes just living is the reward even if it means ridiculous economical decisions.

When my immigrant parents, not to USA, decided they wanted a house, they could not afford the prices in the area, they moved and bought a piece of crap, worked hard and improved until they could afford to buy what they wanted.

My dear ex wife did not have their common sence and "forced" me to buy a house that almost ruined us, power of pussy!

Never under estimate that!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:07 | 1967146 saiybat
saiybat's picture

Maybe by 2050 within a few decades nearly half of all Germans are going to be over the age of 65. They don't have a chance considering most of their money goes to taxes and government pensions that they will never collect on.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:30 | 1967292 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

that's true for every first world country

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:16 | 1967160 ipud
ipud's picture

When all else fails, embezzle

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 06:49 | 1967319 hourglass86
hourglass86's picture

Why people forget the Marshall Plan which actually gave Germany free money to rebuild its economy?

Germany is taking over Europe. Nuff said.


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:46 | 1967349 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

The Marshall Plan? Do you have any clue WHY Germany got a Marshall instead of a Morgenthau? Those were the options.

I'll give you a hint: Stalin was an Ally at that time...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 16:41 | 1968170 TK7936
TK7936's picture

Seriously ? The Marshal Plan wasnt free, it was a credit and Germany paid it back plus interest.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:58 | 1967069 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Coral your horses and shore up your water supply. Make sure your guns are loaded and have plenty of ammunition. This shit is about to get seriously deep. Prepare yourselves, because no one else is going to do it for you.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:48 | 1967190 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

People will be trading an oz of gold for a bag of potatoes.  It's happened before, and will happen again (soon).  Get your food storage and make plans for a survival garden now.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:12 | 1967207 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

This may be wasted effort but what exactly above leads you to issue this statement..  We have been hearing the exact same thing for years..  Europe has not begun to seriously print yet, it will collapse before they print, no, no it won't..

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:32 | 1967293 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

the dude likes his potatoes, so get ready for some potatoes               

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 12:23 | 1967504 flattrader
flattrader's picture

re: potatoes

My friend's born in Russia aged grandmother over-planted potatoes every year.  One spring I asked her, "Why so many rows?"

Essentialy, she explained that when the cossacks come through with their horses and burn the farm, the potatoes usually survive.

Substitute cossacks for Red Army, White Army, Germans...etc...and you get the picture.

Words to live by.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:09 | 1967363 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Food gardens are never a wasted effort.  You get exercise and better quality food.

If you're smart you can reach some level of self-sufficiency. 

This is the most hysterical thing I've seen.  Guy buys a house with an inground pool that he can't afford to renovate.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:35 | 1967473 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

To the people who "red" flagged the oz of gold for a bag of potatoes, read the book "When Money Dies".  It's an eye opening account of Europe post WW1.  Middle class and "wealthy" people were trading every item they owned for food in Germany and Austria.  Gold watches for a bag of potatoes, grand pianos for a sack of flour......  It was crazy.  The farmers became the keepers of the gate of life.  The urban "rich" were screwed with no ability to produce food. 

Fast froward to today, most Americans live in metro areas, with little or no ability to produce their own food.  The assumption that Walmart and Safeway will be open 24/7 to satisfy their every need with a credit card or EBT swipe.  That won't work in an economic collapse. Your (our, I own pms) gold and silver will work, but what will it buy?  Will you be able to buy the whole cow for an oz of gold, or will it buy you a five lb. roast?  Let history be a guide, buy food now while it is cheap and can be purchased with paper.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:57 | 1967070 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

He looks tired.

Most of us probably do too.

End-of-Empire things... unwanted and needless lies, I suspect, does such a thing.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:56 | 1967357 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Alaric led the Visigoths through the Salarian Gate, which was opened from the inside.  Rome was sacked.  The rhyme and rhythm of history senor Cabreado.  All must pay attention to its beat.  Many of the modern day gates have been opened, the sack has been under way for some time.  The sack did not start with a big bang, but minor events.  After all it only takes a couple of pounds of pressure to pull a trigger.  The trigger was pulled some time ago.  Look to the minor events, the camels nose under the tent.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 22:58 | 1967071 Boilermaker
Boilermaker's picture

So, once again, everyone knows it's fucked...eventually....sometime in the near future....but they gun the shit out of the equities higher anyway.

Why the hell would anyone (without the exact script) play this stupid ass game again?

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:55 | 1967195 Seer
Seer's picture

It's the only game that those who control the game know.

The secret is that they'll keep it going for as long as they can.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:33 | 1967294 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

and it's sexy.   we're all about to die but we keep survivin'!  we're survivers, ya'll!

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:04 | 1967073 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

this Tuesday marks the beginning of the end.


EZ collapse will follow the timeline for the discovery of the Higgs Boson.


2012 will be a year of very frequent Sigma 6+ events caused by LHC, and the Higgs field interrupting this world history. 


Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:28 | 1967107 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Pretty odd that we are that advanced to build stuff like that and discover those type things.......but we can't figure out how to all get along.  We also invented bombs that will destroy ourselves and a bunch of stupid crazy bastards are in control of all of them.  We are getting way ahead of ourselves.  Better forgot about life on some distant planet when you have children starving in your own neighborhood.

At times like these im just really disgusted to be a human.  What a joke of a race.  It would be interested to meet alien races just to see if they're also a  bunch of fucking morons.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 02:03 | 1967241 island
island's picture

I'm with you.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 05:07 | 1967310 delacroix
delacroix's picture

you've met their offspring, the sociopaths. no emotional connection, to humanity

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:39 | 1967436 Incubus
Incubus's picture

I'm not a sociopath, but I think humanity is too callous.  Your average joe is what made me a misanthrope--not some smug elitist tool.


The "average joe" is self-serving and enables the upper crust.  The average joe is a selfish sonuvabitch.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 11:42 | 1967475 GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

By and large, the people who invent the bombs and build the accelerators can get along just fine; they do it in grad school with people from around the world all the time.

It's the people who want to deny science that really stack the bodies.


Mon, 12/12/2011 - 01:20 | 1969177 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I find it ironic that the LHC looks like a stained glass church window.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:01 | 1967075 navy62802
navy62802's picture

This time, it is for real. Within the next four months, the money in your pocket will be worthless. If you do not heed the warnings now, you will be thrown out to pasture with everyone else.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:14 | 1967088 flacon
flacon's picture

Death can be violent.... I would keep a supply of fiat money (preferably denominated in ONE CENT or NICKEL coins) if possible. You never know how long it will be before they add more zero's to the paper notes... it could be a while in order to make those silver hoarders give it up. 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:29 | 1967168 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

yep. gives the values of coins at current melt rates.

I think a natural ratio will reemerge between copper, silver and gold.  Modern coinage will retain value in the future.  Nickels are a great deal!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:52 | 1967193 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Kyle Bass bought a million dollars worth of nickels.  They are 75% copper and 25% nickel.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:10 | 1967200 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

is that the composition they've "always" been? DUH. yes...looked it up, same since 1946; "value 12/9/11 = $0.0526885 

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 13:08 | 1967599 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

And they come in convenient $100 boxes!   Well, they're heavy, but they make a great doorstop! 

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:32 | 1967109 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

If you can't afford to make arrangements like me, you can make plans instead.  Have someone you don't like that has things you need?  For instance im mortal enemies with some asshole that fucked me over really bad in the past that raises cows. Little does he know that there really my cows and he's just taking care of them for me.  Until the time comes.  Gota do what you gota do.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:41 | 1967121 Flocking swans
Flocking swans's picture

Good luck w/ that....but you do know: "what we do with rustlers around here" ...

If he got more head of cattle than you... he prob. got bigger guns than you too.... and a rope.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:00 | 1967138 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Cow sitter.


This cracks me up.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 15:27 | 1967969 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

Cattle rustlers get hung in Texas. Almost as bad as stealing a man's horse. Ask Rick Perry.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:34 | 1967115 Flocking swans
Flocking swans's picture

1. What money in my pocket?

2. Will the sheep: "be thrown out to pasture"....Or, slowly be lead down the chute to the slaughterhouse?...

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 00:06 | 1967144 navy62802
navy62802's picture

There will be nothing slow with what's about to happen. People are going to wake up one day to a world that is completely changed. There will be instant bank runs. Gas will skyrocket to $10 a gallon literally overnight. Citizens of the US just don't comprehend how bad things could get over here. It is best to be prepared. Because when people are slammed with something that they don't see coming, it can get very bad very fast.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:40 | 1967299 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

and silver is still $30/oz!


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 14:48 | 1967852 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

It kind of reminds me of when gold was $500/oz.  Silver is the "blue light" special, thanks to the manipulators.  Take advantage of the sale while you can, but buy two years of food first. 

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:11 | 1967084 doggis
doggis's picture

can anyone say TOP TICK. "i dont expect an equity collapse anytime soon - strong corporate balance sheets yada yada yada", translates to me that the drop is right in front of us - directly! we had strong balance sheets in 08 also, or it can be argued.


ahhh and charles, what is with the strong balance sheets, plenty of cash propoganda ~ what about commenting on the record corporate debt that is tied to that 'plenty of cash' . And i wonder what non financial corporations have been buying derivative revenue, and playing the derivative game instead of cap ex spending


biderman is one of the good guys, seeking information and transparency from following the money in a corporate world that is cloaked in fraud and opacity, and i respect him tremendously, but his market timing is less than timely ~ which is why i say TOP TICK!!!! time to short the market martha!

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 01:25 | 1967216 knukles
knukles's picture

Gotta tel 'ya I was at a luncheon last Wednesday sitting ata table with a few equity manager types... and thought that I was in an alternative universe.  Same horeshit equity manager pabulum; earnings, cash flows, debt levels, foreign exchange exposure, offshore cash hoardes, efective tax rate, yada yada yada..
The only thnig they didn't address until I brought it up was discount  rates.  At what rate will all this good news be discounted?  If any one of a bazillion things happens, discount rates rise, stock prioces decline., etc. was my point.
But NOPE.  Rates have nowhere to go but down......

Thses folks are living in an imaginary world, even by standard discounted cash flow analysis methodologies.
They're delusional.
But then again, if an equity manager, are going to talk book.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 03:45 | 1967301 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

which is why all cbs tied their discount rates as one


one ring to rule them all

one ring to bind them

one ring to bring them all

and in the darkness bind them

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 08:47 | 1967352 machineh
machineh's picture

"One percent for the one percenters!" 

Let the masses eat penalty rates ...

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 23:11 | 1967085 kito
kito's picture

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