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Infographic - Are Guns And Ammo The New Gold?

Tyler Durden's picture


There are those who contend that when fiat dies, gold and precious metals will take its place. Then, a smaller subset out there, claims that it matters not who owns the gold or silver. All that matters is who is in charge of the lead. The following inforgraphic from may shed some much needed light on the topic, which as recent Thanksgiving record sales indicated, more and more people are starting to lock in on (and load).

Is Ammo The New Gold? Full Infographic


The threat of a U.S. double dip recession coupled with this summer's debt debacle in Washington - and the subsequent failure of the so-called "debt supercommittee" - has many ordinary Americans looking at gold as a safe store of value.  However, there's another commodity that historically has risen in price along with gold - and is potentially more useful in the event of a global crisis: Ammunition.


Some of the fear-based psychological reasons for gold's popularity in times of economic crisis appear to be similar to the reasons cited for purchasing guns and ammunition.  Michael Thompson, a small business owner from Virginia, had this to say about why he recently purchased 2,000 rounds of 223 ammunition to go with his growing collection of AR-15 assault rifles: "Since ARs are so well-known & widespread, quality ones don't really go down in value.  I don't trust what's going on in Washington and a reliable firearm that'll hold it's value plus ammo that I can always re-sell later if I don't use it up seems like as safe a place as any to put my money in these uncertain times."


One prominent factor which customers at cite as one of their primary reasons for stocking up on guns & ammo now is the uncertainty surrounding U.S. firearm regulations.  Many wonder if President Obama's official position on firearm regulation will change if he wins a second term. Others point to recent actions taken by President Obama's appointees in the EPA and the Department of Justice, citing the EPA's recently proposed ban on lead ammunition due to health concerns about the lead seeping into ground water supplies and the on-going debacle surrounding the Deparment of Justice's failed Fast & Furious sting operation.  Several states have also enacted anti-gun legislation recently, such as California expanding their controversial gun registry to now include purchasers of new rifles and shotguns.


Dustin Ramsey, a 28 year old self-proclaimed "realist" from Tennessee who says hunting and fishing are two of his favorite outdoor activities, counts the 5,000 rounds of 9mm ammunition he keeps on-hand as one of his investments along with gold coins: "I'm a hunter so I know I can use my guns & ammo to feed my family if something happens to our usual food supply and there's a run at our grocery store. Plus, it seems like somebody on Wall Street is always getting bailed out nowadays and my faith in the stock market has been gone for a long time. Look, I've seen what happens when times get tough and I figure I can always barter a popular caliber like 9mm for other supplies like I would with gold if push comes to shove. And if a crisis never materializes where I need my stash of ammo, I still love to shoot so those bullets won't go to waste. Given the uncertainty in our world, ammunition seems more practical to me than gold, whether there's an economic crisis or not."


Whatever their reason, Americans are purchasing firearms and ammunition in record numbers.  USA Today recently reported that the FBI experienced on Black Friday their single largest number of background check requests ever in a single day, smashing the previous record by 32%.  Background check requests are processed by the FBI according to federal law.  Gallop also reported that gun ownership is at an 18 year high, with 47% of Americans admitting to Gallop they own a gun.  These statistics coupled with customer feedback at indicate more Americans are taking advantage of their constitutional right to own a firearm - and are arming up in increasing large numbers.


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Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:23 | 2004326 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:28 | 2004345 ratso
ratso's picture

You're trading on fear, paranoia and racisim at this point.  Booo.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:31 | 2004350 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

No, just on logic

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:40 | 2004385 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Yugoslavia, it happens.  Importing third world people by the millions will probably not end well for us. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004438 iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Who has good deals on some .223?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:58 | 2004494 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

Cabelas, Sportsmans Guide.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:07 | 2004535 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I'm buying! I'm buying! What's the ticker symbol?!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:13 | 2004577 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Weed: Portable, durable, divisible, fungible and a store of value!  

Guns and ammos?  Okay, but ever tried firing a pistol while high?  No?  Oh, you're missing out! 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:21 | 2004612 fuu
fuu's picture

There is an error in the infographic.

"Official US unemployment has risen from 8.6% in the fourth quarter of 1999(a 30-year low) to 4.1%."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:49 | 2004746 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

That's not an error! That's AMAZINGLY GOOD NEWS.


Hardy har har.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:19 | 2005139 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture


Monkey With A Gun






Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:30 | 2005371 Mauibrad
Mauibrad's picture

Guns and Grub, Bitchez.  Gold's a distant 3rd.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:43 | 2005618 John Bigboote
John Bigboote's picture

I am personally going to have access to some incremental discretionary funds in a month or so.

Am I gonna buy equities? Fuck that!

US dollars? Hell no!

PMs - got that.

Food - ditto.

No. I'm gonna buy a shit load more of .223! Bitchez!

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 04:30 | 2006598 Mauibrad
Mauibrad's picture

Excellent Interview with Col. Lawrence Wilkerson 12 22 2011 on Present National Security Affairs 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:37 | 2004681 pupton
pupton's picture

I'd love to believe you, but doesn't weed lose quality/potency/value with age?  Bullets properly stored may last 50 years or more.  Gold and silver will last indefinitely.

Along your line of thinking though, I did buy some "store of value" bottles of booze (Jim Beam).  I figure alcohol will be in demand and hard to find after SHTF.  It will never go bad, if nothing else I will want to personally drink it, plus it could be used as a bribe, barter, bomb, etc.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:44 | 2004719 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

And as soon as you sell some weed (or booze) to someone and folks find out you have it, you will need a way to defend it.

Weed will last for at least a few years if properly dried/cured/preserved.  Using super critical fiuid extraction, probably longer.

Just ordered more cases of .22, .40, .223 and .308.  Oh and more reloading supplies.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:01 | 2004816 pupton
pupton's picture

I have several ways to defend me.  I need more "trigger pullers" in my family though.  Kids will be capable some day, but too young now.  It's good to have a like minded neighbor or family nearby to help control things and watch your back IF SHTF.  Brother in law across the street in my case, plus nephew.  I got .223, .40S&W, .380, .280, 7.62, .22LR, 12ga, lots of all of it.  I have a nice hoard of the 22LR because it is damn cheap, easy to shoot (for women/kids) and quiet yet lethal if well-placed. 

All of you guys may want to check before buying.  They have very competitive prices!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:25 | 2004923 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Don't be so quick to rule out the usefulness of those little tykes. They make great carriers of suicide bombs, come in handy for clearing mine fields, and in a pinch can be used to test foods for various toxins and poisons............just to name a few.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:33 | 2005196 JPM Hater001
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We are sick and twisted here.  Not cruel.

These actions are only approved for enemy combatant children.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:17 | 2005336 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Look, I understand your sentiment, however I really do think it would be wise to, at the very least, make provision for the unregulated use of step-kids, adopted children and neighbor kids. Make it part of no child left behind in the next round of budgetary hearings.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:50 | 2005238 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

Weed is a horrible investment unless you are a feigning pothead. For one, it will probably be legalized soon and lose a lot of its value. It's not going to last forever at the bottom of the ocean like precious metals, and fails the durability test. Ammo might be the only thing better than metals. Food and water aren't really investments since you will most likely consume them :) and ammo isn't really either even though having it is a necessity.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:40 | 2005392 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Weed is always a good investment.  Believe me, when society breaks down the cost of alchol will go very hi as the addicts will pay anything.

Fortunately Weed is only habit forming and not addicting.  So those unable to find booze will happily trade some manual labor, or stand gaurd, for a joint or two.

Todays markup is absurd.  So actually, according to your theory once legal those with the skills to grow will have a huge advantage in the early days of the market.

Now how to explain it to my Sunday School class the Church that's another question.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:48 | 2006085 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

You can grow weed, but you can't grow PMs or ammo.

Seeds, bitchez.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:39 | 2009392 Jekyll On The Island
Jekyll On The Island's picture


RULE #2  - The person with the gun can take the Gold away from the frist guy.

RULE #3  - The person with the gun can take the Weed away from the "WEED" guy!

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived    - GOOGLE IT!!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:25 | 2005547 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture



Abiotic Oil said:

And as soon as you sell some weed (or booze) to someone and folks find out you have it, you will need a way to defend it.


Same will apply to all those selling small amounts of their gold and silver for the necessities of life when TSHTF.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:59 | 2005277 Franktastic
Franktastic's picture

Get an alcohol still and a shit load of ass wipe...very valuable indeed.


I roll of ass wipe for one once of gold...unless u turn ur gold into a spoon to wipe with. heh

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:21 | 2004903 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

A pistol? We did entire live fire exercise while high as a kite! And I ain't talking "all firin in the same direction" either! You've never seen the movie Platoon have you...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:50 | 2005034 Dugald
Dugald's picture

At last, an explanation as to Friendly Fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:50 | 2005414 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Friendly Fire... *see Blue Force Situational Awareness.

Don't worry, they will have transponders to identify each other, only us enemy combata...err, Red Forc... err, American Citizens will be targeted under Continuity of Government.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 15:37 | 2009385 Jekyll On The Island
Jekyll On The Island's picture


RULE #2  - The person with the gun can take the Gold away from the frist guy.

RULE #3  - The person with the gun can take the Weed away from the "WEED" guy!

Violence is the supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived    - GOOGLE IT!!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:34 | 2004673 X. Kurt OSis
X. Kurt OSis's picture

Cheaper Than Dirt always has a good deal on non-reloadable 223.  I have no intention of handloading in that caliber so it makes sense to me.  I bought 500 rounds of Russian made, so far no misfires.  They'll make quarter of an inch sized holes in things regardless of what the cartridge is made of.

If you don't mind stripper clips, they usually have NATO rounds on the cheap too. 


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:43 | 2004712 RobD
RobD's picture

One ding I have heard on the steel casings is that they are hard on extractors so if you are shooting a lot of steel you might want to get some spar extractors. I have a bunch of steel cased .223 also but I only shoot brass right now, the steel is for when the SHTF and the brass is for practice.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:58 | 2004800 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

The other ding on those is that they use some pretty crappy surplus powder that fouls barrels a lot faster than you might be used to.  Some things are just too cheap, if you figure total cost of ownership (cleaning and barrel wear) - they're not so cheap anymore.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:30 | 2005182 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Not a big deal. Clean your guns after every shooting session.

Don't be lazy..take them apart fully.

Break Free CLP...use it liberally and it will protect.
Also, look up Ballistol in liquid form. It neutralizes corrosive ammo residue.

AR-15's suck for cleaning. I detest them..especially for their caliber.
A good AK variant or FAL variant (really anything in .308) is a much better deal.

If you are a lazy gun cleaner and really want .223...get a Ruger Mini-14. Spray down with carb cleaner after every session and oil up with Break Free. You don't even have to take it apart. Just take it out of the stock and hold it by the barrel.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:19 | 2006274 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

I like my mini, but it is a bit of a toy.It is very accurate, reliable, and good for close work.And as you point out, it is easy to clean.... but hard on brass.I really prefer 30-06 bolt actions for serious fun.My 03a3 smith corona is a particularly hard ass style gun...very accurate,easy to clean and rugged enough to use as a club or spear...and remain undamaged.

   I wish I had a HK G3.Aside from being chambered in 308, it is a good rifle.

I am one of "those" who really like the 30-06 over 308.The modern high energy loadings from Hornady and others result in serious muzzle energy with concomitant usefulness at range.

 Good luck and best wishes!

 PS.I am also an Elmer Keith fan.That should explain a lot....

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 16:46 | 2008198 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

I had a stainless scoped Mini-14. Did sell it though. It was not as accurate as my friends old Mini-14 with factory side fold stock (exact A-Team model). Why? Never bothered to find out as I bought a nice AK next. One of the most perfect rifle concepts ever made. Dead simple, powerful, compact. Mine shot *really* well. Definetely a weapon you can trust.

The Mini-14  construction is why I suggested it to the lazy ;)
Hose that sucker down with carb cleaner and be done with it.
If that's your style (for lack of a nicer term).

My friend had a 30-06 bolt action with a Douglas Air Gauged barrel. We shot it from a sandbag on a table in the center of the dining room. Opened the window and fired at a target way in the "back 40". The muzzle blast was pretty intense indoors. It made dishes and stuff fall down in the kitchen nearby.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:42 | 2005009 X. Kurt OSis
X. Kurt OSis's picture

I've pretty much gotten accustomed to loading up on spare everything for my AR's.  Between upper parts, lower parts, bolt carrier group parts and everyother fucking thing... I must have three complete spare uppers at this point, if fully assembled.

And to the point about additional fouling, I honestly haven't noticed that yet, though I always think of fouling as a result of the quality of the jacket, not the powder.  

I will say that I bought a case of NATO green tips and cleaning seemed particularly difficult that day.  Again based on my experience, thoroughly cleaning AR15's is a bitch no matter what you are shooting.  I have actually started getting paranoid about just that fact.  If the shit does hit the fan, you all would be wise to stock pile Rem Oil and Hoppe's No. 9... and a fuck-load of patches. 

Among the pro's for the AR style rifles are that they are easy to take apart and put back together.  Among the con's is that in order to make them easy to take apart and reassemble, AR's are a fucking mess of springs and pins that need constant upkeep and replacement.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:47 | 2005244 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Russian ammo is dirty, makes smoke, and misfires.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:47 | 2005950 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

For a second there, I thought you were talking about ARs, not ammunition.  At least AK's fire while dirty and very rarely misfire.

You may have "clean" ammunition, but it won't fire through your dirty rifle.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:48 | 2006204 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Don't you love Wolf?

Sometimes, you even get brass- and nickle-plated primers in the same box!  Bonus!

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 00:45 | 2006452 ThrivingAdmistC...
ThrivingAdmistCollapse's picture

Yeah, I've gots to stock up on some of that.  It would make for fine trading currency when the economic collapse happens!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:58 | 2004495 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

walmart 100 rounds 40$

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:01 | 2004503 Chuck Norris
Chuck Norris's picture

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:49 | 2004748 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture (great deal on .223 68gr match and .308 FMJ from PRVI right now)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:02 | 2004505 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Guns and Gold will fold. I speak as a military man with some experience regarding the guns.

What they have... most personal stashes are pea-shooters in comparison. Firearms are a poor defence in todays world. Ultrasonics, X-Rays, Microwave Dishes, lasers, death metal.....

Guns make you stupid, not safe. They give you a false sense of power. To beat the real threat, you have to think waaaaay outside the box.

And in the right hands, a .177 is gun enough anyways. ;-)



Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:08 | 2004542 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

stupid comment as always gupta.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:10 | 2004555 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

ORI? Who knew! "that seems far from a peace loving buddhay guy" ORI.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:22 | 2004616 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I did my time disabledvet. 12 years to be precise. Left me witha partial shift of hearing and a crazy perspective on life. 


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:26 | 2004629 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

That sounds about right. It is no use my dear Indian friend. America is a young country, you have to let them go through this to catch up...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:32 | 2004960 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:53 | 2005043 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

India has a navy?  ;-)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:34 | 2004676 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

It only took "basic training" for that to happen to me. And I graduated! (to Airborne School and from there to the Ranger Indoctrination Program. Initials RIP...I always like that.)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:46 | 2004734 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I was a Naval Officer and felt like a big leech on the system. Totally useless make-work. But training shows you what the human is capable of, eh? 


A ranger..... you know exactly what I'm talking about. I feel parts of my mind are lying strewn about on parade grounds and decks and cabins and ward rooms and "situations".


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:25 | 2004924 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Sure weapons are for comfort and peice of mind. Like insurance. When raiders come to my house, if ever, they will be greeted with some boom boom. You can just stand there and shake your dick at them. Good luck with that plan.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:36 | 2004978 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You have a "plan Shake Dick at People"?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:43 | 2006062 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i thought that was funny!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:57 | 2005058 Dugald
Dugald's picture

Get your Shit Together son.....

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:17 | 2004599 clymer
clymer's picture

ORI - I think most people know that a bunch of rifles and shot guns are no match against military grade ordinance and foreign troops (paid for with our own tax dollars - yes, it's planned).

But to help defend yourself against what will assuredly be a massive crime wave.

I don't think anyone here is dumb enough to think we are actually arming for an insurrection, and expect to be victorious. The only way that would happen is if the military and government was split, and most chose the side of the people and constitution to whom they swore an oath.

Let's all just focus on getting through this peacefully, and planning for the worst.



Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:26 | 2004640 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Fair enough Clymer. But as Lao Tzu said, no claw of a tiger in a jungle, nor tip of a spear in a battlefield can or will find one who is in the tao.

That is where I'm putting my efforts.

Guns are a force multiplier. They are also a stupidity multiplier. Ask anyone who has been in an actual battle situation.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:38 | 2004691 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

You know Lao Tzu?!!! You're moving WAY UP on my list.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:21 | 2004878 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



If you Pakistanis come again into our country and shoot up our parliment, just once more, or come into our country and shoot up our financial district, just one more time, then I promise you this, after the next time...we...we will...we will be very very angry.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:24 | 2004920 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well, touche.

Each of the quoted incidents: CIA+MOSSAD+ISI

And I'm sure RAW is muck-raking there too. 

And it's all a damn shame.

And the same lot control both sides anyways.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:27 | 2004934 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture




Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:58 | 2005068 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

The CIA controls Mossad and ISI? How? Wait wait! Please tell me..."with MIND MARTIANS." I love that term. "we're on the move!" plus "they're green! Favorite color!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:29 | 2005178 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

ISI was established with CIA funds and expertise.I'm not so sure about Mossad.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:51 | 2006215 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Mossad's the trigger finger of the CIA.

It's just that they have to steal passports to forge them, the CIA just makes 'em up.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:47 | 2004735 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

It always amazes how former military/intelligence dudes end up thoroughly philosophical, at least the more profound ones do. And none of that arm-chair bullshit philosophy either but actual authenticity.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:13 | 2004876 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

You should read Patton's biography.  That man was a genius.  During my time in the military I really liked just about all the generals I met, can't say the same for the colonels.  You have to be smart and savvy to become a general, it is very difficult to do.  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:34 | 2004967 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Another great one was General Smedley Butler who wrote "War is a Racket"

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:39 | 2005598 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Patton was a prick. Damn near got the old man killed for NO good reason in the bulge.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:17 | 2005877 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Georgie murdered a lot of his own men to get his hard ons. (personal medals)  He was a 1% asshole.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:46 | 2006078 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

from where i'm sitting all those who have served their country...and are currently serving i might add..appear to be about "1 percent." May I ask what your view on winning is if you believe such a reality is in fact true?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:53 | 2004761 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i'm actually a daoist. I've been thinking about this gun shit. I have a family, kid, and the wife hates it, and the kid is way too young to teach; so... i'd have to hide it; also, i live in a city: san francisco. fairly peaceful. crime is in oakland. and the only reason i'd get a weapon would be for protection.

truth is, if it gets as bad as everyone on zerohedge suspects; i'm just leaving. i'll use the silver to get out, and the gold to settle down. I've already found a couple of spots in fuck'n-nowhere land. the only problem i have is getting out, and it's not that much of a problem; a weapon makes it impossible to travel internationally; or way more difficult.

i've lived over seas, and my wife is imported; so, i could give a fuck if you niggas wanna burn your house down; I'll come back after and rebuild.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:03 | 2004822 UGrev
UGrev's picture

What.. you think we're gonna let you back in? and i dont' mean that in the literal sense of you entering/returning to America. Society has a funny way of excluding people who didn't pull their weight. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:10 | 2004853 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

yeah, you're probably right. so, i probably won't come back. who cares. I'm free.


as for pulling weight... shit, I gots a job. I'm one of the smart ones that can count and read.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:11 | 2004865 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I don't think you caught the meaning regarding "weight pulling."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:26 | 2004932 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

now i know i won't come back. fuck manual labor; unless it's on my farm and for my own profit.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:01 | 2005070 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

If he had understood it, Missy, he wouldn't have written what he did.

These no-goods will be there for us to target practice with.

EDIT: Oh, I see he has posted to your comment with a typical banker mentality -- gimme mine, and EFF YOU.

What I say still stands.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:33 | 2005197 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Just wow! Good to see you in these parts, always.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:24 | 2005339 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

you guys are just retards. never been nowhere, can't speak a foreign language, really don't know how to live off the land; just all up in dat ass on some power trip. Shit, you think you gonna tag some banker ass... all you are is pissed off. well. pissed off don't get you shit; except jail maybe.


All this gun talk is macho bullshit about you're poor and gonna get some when the world goes BANG!

this is why it's better to leave. let the retards kill themselves, enslave the rest.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:40 | 2005390 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i gots one for ya... "Ruby Ridge"

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:54 | 2005428 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I am going to try but you are right, I am probably a retard for doing this.

Here is UGrev's post to you:

"What.. you think we're gonna let you back in? and i dont' mean that in the literal sense of you entering/returning to America. Society has a funny way of excluding people who didn't pull their weight."

Let's focus on this: "you think we're going to let you back in?"

He said this was not literal. If not literal, then what?

If everyone teams up together to tear it down and rebuild after you leave, then you come back once the work is done, did you "pull your weight?"

I have been "helped" before. It is a wonderful feeling, confusing, then humbling, then you just get all warm and grateful and stuff. Later, I have been in a position to help. That is also a wonderful feeling and it connects me back to the times when I was helped, those good feelings. Working together multiplies these feelings in the group. You bond. It is called community.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:12 | 2005486 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

you need to get educated...

see the weathermen, ask the hippies; what happened... four dead in Ohio... and then what, "free love baby"

you can't win, you're foder as best, probably target practice til the government turns on itself and they destroy themselves.

you want real revolution. quit. drop out, stop paying taxes (don't tell no one though cause they'll tell big brother); starve the beast slowly. use the Tao, let it kill itself.

watch this long ass documentary, 4 parts...


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:27 | 2005910 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

It's the tribal instinct surfacing.  All humans are born with it.  A few reject it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:06 | 2006240 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

There's a term for this it's called "Carpetbaggers", apolgies if it's been brought up below. It's a term coined after the American Civil War.  It makes no difference if your a 1800's yankee or a 20th century exile. The meaning is the same..If what actually goes down as many suspect here, the same fate will await the latter day "Confederate" as back then.

Sadly the ones that actually put one's life, livleyhood, family etc on the line are the one's that often (should I say always) wear the brunt of the pain. The ones that makes the actual sacrafices are usually supplemented by the people that come after. I agree MsCreant about the warm and fuzzy feelings - the fact is we are still getting screwed and warm fuzzy feelings recieved by donating time to the Food Bank or Builders for Humanity are just masking issues that should be addressed by our elected leaders.

There will be a community once all have a comon purpose....question is will come down from goodwill or necessity. I'm thinking the latter.



Fri, 12/23/2011 - 01:47 | 2006514 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

dp baby.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 01:49 | 2006515 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

first, I'm from Mississippi, so i knows about carpet baggers.

second, are you people stupid... if it comes to total civil war, China, Russia, and Mexico will invade and inslave your ass. That would be a complete meltdown.

and you're just stupid, all this nationalism, community crap is Nazi propaganda. 

and if you put your family in harms way, you're an idiot and your genetics deserve to get wiped off the earth.

I learned a lot from being a white slave master; pump the ghettoes full of guns and drugs and watch the niggas wipe themselves out. More economical, less police needed to control the ghetto.

play the game like a chess master, let them move, you stay still; they'll just kill themselves cause their egos demand that they something. thats how you win.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 11:07 | 2007029 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Well said.  And Merry Christmas. 

And Merry Christmas to all my punch-drunk friends at ZH.  Including the Newbies.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 17:15 | 2009495 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Hope yours is Merry as well!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:38 | 2005212 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture

As Adams said...

"may your chains set lightly, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen"

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:02 | 2005086 Dugald
Dugald's picture

You GOTS a the world a favour and stay put!!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:19 | 2005343 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

yeah, making money and buying gold; and if needed, food, shelter, ammo, etc... just paper.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:38 | 2004986 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

remember ori


the bamboo is my friend 

because it conceals nothing inside of it


the water is my teacher

because it is crystal clear.....

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:02 | 2005083 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

So what's that make the "bamboozle" then?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:24 | 2004916 Mad Marv
Mad Marv's picture

Right - you do the best you can with what you have.  To NOT prepare is folly. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:26 | 2006155 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

That's it, right there. It strikes me as irresponsible to not be prepared to take care of yourself and your family, for a minimum of a month (longer is better), if there should be some kind of disruption to the supply chain. If you have the means to prepare, and you don't, it is simply placing all faith in a system that is so much more fragile than most people appreciate.

Back in 2008 there was a minor disruption in the gas supply chain in the southeast, and struck some heavily populated areas like Atlanta pretty hard. Stations were out of gas, and cars lined up when they saw a tanker pull into a gas station. This was a minor disruption that lasted less than a month, but it was interesting to observe the change in behavior in people in a very short time period. I'm grateful I witnessed it, because it was that event that opened my eyes to the fact that the system is truly fragile, and we just take it for granted that the wheels are always going to turn. If you have the means, you would be wise to be prepared to survive at least a short term disruption.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 00:49 | 2006459 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The powers tat be will control the food, electricity and information.  The masses are easily control by the lies on TV.   Kirschner in Argentina took over the newsprint (paper) company and is attacking any opposition press.  Argentina has been ground into the dirt with 60+ years of socialism.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:30 | 2004952 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

I am SO glad our forfathers didn't feel the same when faced with the powerful and experienced British military! We'd be eating crumpets and having afternoon tea still.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:23 | 2006148 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Instead of Big Macs and fries?

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 12:09 | 2007199 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Hey brother - I am not throwing in the towel.  I am just trying to anticipate what might happen.  I would guess 97% of Americans have no clue how much people gave up and suffered to separate from the English.  The Revolutionary war was not some little skirmish.

They will try to control food, electricity, information, etc.  The public cares about HD TV brainwashing, beer and govt free stuff.  Still about 30% supported spliting from England back in the day.   The rule by the English sucked but it is probably less oppressive than what we have today.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:58 | 2005983 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Small arms and boots on the ground are what win wars.  Are you kidding me?  Resistance does too work.  As long as the civilian population supports it, the occupying force doesn't stand a chance in the long run.

Some folks on here sound like the loyalists.  How could we ever fight the British?!  They have the strongest military on the planet...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:27 | 2006157 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The problem is... the civilian population won't support resistance; at least, not yet. And maybe not ever.

There have been a lot of failed revolutions over the years.

Physical resistance is useless until we wake enough people up... at which point, it won't be necessary because we can just vote the bastards out.

Assuming they still let us vote, that is...

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:49 | 2006980 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Entire states would revolt depending on the actions taken by the feds.  I have zero confidence in voting at the federal level too.  People who still do are definitely not awake.  It's a selection, not an election.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:18 | 2004604 Blano
Blano's picture

Our Regional Idiot would be a much more appropriate name for you.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:04 | 2004696 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

How 'bout Chicken Little then?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:06 | 2005098 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I thought that was the name of that Rooster guy there? Or is that "Chicken Hawk"?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:21 | 2005146 fuu
fuu's picture

Foghorn Leghorn?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:50 | 2006089 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

My bad. Foghorn Leghorn it is. Interesting name. Would it be wrong to name your child "Foghorn Leghorn"?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:29 | 2006166 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I genuinely don't know. Why don't you try it, and get back to us when you've found out?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:25 | 2004635 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

I guess this explains why third-worlders armed largely with small arms and home-made explosives have done so poorly agains the US in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.



Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:40 | 2004669 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Well, the vietnamese third worlders defeated the US, so drop that from the list.

Was Iraq a victory? Leaving with your tail between your legs after a disaster of a campaign from first shot to last whimper? Cuuntless lives and wealth and history destroyed, Only remaining presence a 30 Billion dollar fortress and a puppet PM? 

And Afghanistan, winning? Do you follow the news, read outside the msm? The Army is only guarding routs. Drug routes and fields and pipeline routes. No winning I'm afraid.

The rest is a set up for the next soon to be failing mis-adventure.

Look where Guns got America. Seriously. Wild West, Yee haw, bang bang, you dead. I shot the Sherriffffffff..... now policing the world. 


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:42 | 2004707 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I hate to agree with that. Tell me ORI...what is you'e expertise in the world of economics? How are we doing there?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:55 | 2004781 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Just general awareness DV. I wrote about it, check it out if called.





Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:08 | 2005104 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I'm afraid of the blue words. What do those do?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:12 | 2005118 nihilist
nihilist's picture

You should be it's nothing but horseshit!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:12 | 2005119 nihilist
nihilist's picture

You should be it's nothing but horseshit!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:52 | 2005648 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

You fuktard, AWARENESS IS LOCK AND LOAD. It is not shits and giggles over growing "love and forgiveness" bullshit. Love can't pay the bills and protect you from harm.  Just ask all the collateral damage dead peeps all over the world.

If you want the perp walk into the gas chamber, be my guest. JUst be AWARE of what you are doing.

Your past military experience is pure brain washed bullshit. You have been conned and still have the hangover, thereof.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:55 | 2005050 Ag1761
Ag1761's picture

How are we doing there


I think US should stick to guns.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:11 | 2005117 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Why? Our interest rates have not only never been lower but they are the lowest in the world. I mean "even the most advanced minds on the planet" can't explain it. Should I be worried?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:52 | 2005423 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture

Look beyond what you consider an "advanced mind."

There are multitudes of minds that graphically explain the interest rate "plank" the UAssA is walking.

ZeroH has plenty of references, pull head out of MSM sand pile.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:59 | 2006103 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I've searched in vain for someone to explain the bond market to me on the "MSM." Or anywhere else for that matter! Having said that i know this really cool guy and "he stayed long the market" (the treasury market that would be) and outperformed both your gold and your silver hands down this year. And yet the MSM does not report this! They would rather i day trade my puny savings away on something i neither care about nor have (much) of. That deficit and those interest rates are supporting a massive war effort. If i were... "the enemy"...i would want to destroy that. As such would it be wrong for it to be said "if all the Banks on the Planet failed but interest rates stayed near zero across the curve" that that would be a good thing? I would argue "if your plan is to keep an entire country together absolutely low to zero interest rates are preferable." And we all know this here because of a nation called "Greece" yes, yes?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:44 | 2004721 pupton
pupton's picture

He was being sarcastic dummy.  I believe his point was that indigenous populations with the same small arms Americans are hoarding can win a war of attrition against an apparently far more powerful occupying force.  The reason is, like they said in the movie "Red Dawn"  - "BECAUSE WE LIVE HERE!" (BANG.)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:33 | 2005928 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

That didn't work very well for the Native Americans.  What makes you think there won't be another technology gap?

Influenza can kill you no matter how well armed you are.  If you don't have the PTB's medicine, you and most of your companions are dead.  End of story.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:55 | 2004758 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Dead on with the Vietnamese who always love to remind US visitors that they(the US) lost the war.

The Afghani's are suffocating them as we speak.

I can only explain Iraq with countless expletives and explosions.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:25 | 2004925 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Your comments are misguided but have some truth to them.  If you polled most of the people in the US you would find most do not support these police and bullying actions which are meant to safeguard the elite's business interests, not the interests of the US citizens.  The military-industrial complex has carefully maneuvered to ensure that war is one of America's top exports.  Why should the US have a defense budget of $1T when the next closest, China, only spends $150 B?  There's a lot of money in war and the political insiders and TBTF banks know it.  Follow the dollars ORI, you're smarter than your last few comments make you appear.  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:14 | 2005121 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

But the "banks have failed." seems like a bad strategy if that was "their plan."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:56 | 2005665 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Holy fuck, DV, they fail and then grab more power. Ain't ya figured that out yet?

Create the problem, take out your competition and replace the system with your new improved system. UNderstand what history has taught you, not what you make up in your limited mind.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:07 | 2006002 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I guess it depends on the definition of failed.  If the banks walk away owning everything and the majority of the precious metals, did they really fail?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:07 | 2006122 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

plus "the government owns everything" when the bank fails. In other words "Socialism has succeeded" not when the government...does whatever it does...but when the financial system collapses. Of course we still gotta eat, gotta smoke, gotta get a job, yada yada yada. Where is even the free thought or free thinking? "Successful private banks allow your mind to wander." JP Morgan (the man) had this awesome private library. I still does i believe. I think you can go visit it...hang out in "his library" "his books"...spin "his Globe"! Imagine that! "Being JP Morgan the Man for a moment"! I understand everyone's..."abstract expressionism" here...but it seems filled with an enormous amount of emotion...and an equal amount of "this is all i really need to know" kinda stuff. Put yourself in someone else's shoes...if only for a moment...and ask yourself..."what would i do"..."what would i say." You'd wanna say something really "cool" wouldn't you. Something "people would remember and talk about for ages."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:33 | 2006175 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The 'banks' may have failed, but their executives, shareholders and bondholders didn't. They're all doing very nicely.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 14:46 | 2007834 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It goes ona nd on. What about Clintron, UN and NATO in Bosnia and Serbia.  What was the purpose there?  Was it the drug pipeline from Afghanistan that goes the through the Balkans to Europe or a supposed oil pipeline.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:27 | 2004935 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

If you had a brain ORI then you should remember that we were winning in vietnam and especially after the tet offensive.  It was the cowardly democrats, as they are today, that prevent us from completing the task because it's just not fair that us evil americans have overwhelming amount of force to annihilate anyone we want.  If the US never saved Afghanistan from the Soviet Union then we never would have heard of al qaeda.  It is because of democrats/liberals/solcialists/progressives that don't let america defend itself.  Instead they want to farm out our security to those buffoons at the UN who think the USA is the problem in the world and not these piss ant dictators that they all seem to be in bed with.  President of France Jacque Chirac was good friends with saddam hussein, but wouldn't do the right thing by supporting our effort to get rid of Hussein.  Saddam not Obama. the oil food program that the UN promoted was actually a way for saddam to acquire weapons and ammo that he was prohibited from having from the first gulf war. What did American troops find strewn about in Iraq?  French weapons that were dated after the ban. Each of these wars you speak of were all hampered by the politics of the left. Have you heard any of the outrage from the antiwar left about 3 new wars that we have engaged in only to give the muslim brotherhood control over Egypt who was an ally, not a perfect one but still an ally. Where is Cindy Sheehan and code pink and protesting illegal wars? It only happens when there is a republican at the helm.  You are ignorant as can be.  Merry Christmas!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:32 | 2005925 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the reviews on your history book aren't so good

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:22 | 2006280 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

two words "Pentagon Papers" ...


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:28 | 2004936 Thadeous
Thadeous's picture

If you think criminals will give up guns, you're wrong.

If you think citizens of America are better off being unarmed while criminals are still armed, you're stupid.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:23 | 2005537 fuu
fuu's picture

You should stop watching American Westerns and equating it them to the truth.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:31 | 2004665 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You speak as a military man or an idiot?  I can't tell which one.  When I start seeing our troops carrying microwave rifles instead of M4s, then I might start to pay attention. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:37 | 2004686 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Dude, just google G20 protest, microwave crowd control.


Or just google Darpa Microwave beam Weapon+crowd control

Educate yourself.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:56 | 2004764 pupton
pupton's picture

I know about the microwave weapons.  They are no secret.  The US Military has been developing lots of "non-lethal" weapons for crowd control.  It is scary.  They have sonic weapons, lasers, foams, things that make you shit yourself, and microwaves that cook your from the inside.  But the M4 is their weapon of choice and oppression.  It is was lets the public know who is "in charge". 

If a no-kidding battle were to break out between an armed town of civilians and the military I suspect there would be lots of bloodshed on both sides, but mostly civilian, and it would be "the shot heard round the world"...per the US Revolution, as millions of freedom loving Americans took up arms to join their fellow Americans.  All bets would be off.  Then the man would have to impose a communications blackout and martial law.  There are over 100,000,000 armed Americans, and only 1% of them are uniformed military.  You would also have to weigh the role of state and local SWAT and law enforcement.  A standoff between state and Federal could also be in the cards before any armed conflict with civilians.  Would governors activate the National Guard to defend their states from the Marine's, etc. 

Odds are none of this happens, but it would not be pretty if it did.  With each additional increment of Federal tyranny the odds of a conflict of some kind go up just a little.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:59 | 2004808 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

So you see pupton, multiplying weapons on both sides only increases the odds of a conflgaration happening, does nto diminish them. The quote abotu a polite society being an armed one is about inter-people society, not government Vs. People.

I'm an optimistic realist, a really tough place to be! ;-)


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:10 | 2004860 pupton
pupton's picture

ORI perhaps you are just more of a pacifist, I'm not sure.  But I think many here on ZH would agree with the following words of wisdom:

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson (a fellow Virginian, God bless him)

THAT, my friend, is why we have a Second Amendment.  The federal government has been on a campaign to make us more afraid of them, especially since 911.  We have to prepare to resist physically, though we would definitely prefer a non-violent return of our liberty. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:16 | 2004888 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

I am a pacifist and explosives in all forms are just a sign of the times.

I'm trying to add to the silence by subtracting from the noise.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:52 | 2005261 nihilist
nihilist's picture

And yet you've done the opposite, go figure.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:17 | 2005510 DRT RD
DRT RD's picture

I respect your views but feel it is important to remember that if it wasn't for war, pacificst wouldnt be needed.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:00 | 2005989 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

When Jefferson wrote that, the people could legally have any weapon that the government had.  That is no longer the case, by a long shot.  Why do you think that is?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:25 | 2006152 wisefool
wisefool's picture

If you ever have to stand tall against the typical puke they call an IRS agent you will say: "But her face"

Tax collectors are douchebags, and do not know anything about law. They do know about weapons, but see "butter face."

NonViolence. Ron Paul 2012. Think it Through.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:18 | 2004894 ali-ali-al-qomfri
ali-ali-al-qomfri's picture

Darpa just announced a joint venture with Monsanto to make UPFJ’s “Ultra Pop (corn) Flak Jackets” available and are currently in test mode with warmed butter, garlic and other flavours. The UPFJ is capable of absorbing the microwave energy in the ultra fucking ridiculous spectrum allowing for genetic mutations to form almost immediately. Warning operators must rotate 360 degrees for 2 minutes, in order to absorb the micro-energy more evenly (thus cooking all the kernals) when being blasted with microwaves if they expect to survive the episode. (caution; limited to one time use, butter and salt not included)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:35 | 2004969 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Didn't DARPA come up with the kevlar underwear to protect the nads from IED blasts?  That is about the pinnacle of their accomplishments.   

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