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Infographic - Are Guns And Ammo The New Gold?

Tyler Durden's picture


There are those who contend that when fiat dies, gold and precious metals will take its place. Then, a smaller subset out there, claims that it matters not who owns the gold or silver. All that matters is who is in charge of the lead. The following inforgraphic from may shed some much needed light on the topic, which as recent Thanksgiving record sales indicated, more and more people are starting to lock in on (and load).

Is Ammo The New Gold? Full Infographic


The threat of a U.S. double dip recession coupled with this summer's debt debacle in Washington - and the subsequent failure of the so-called "debt supercommittee" - has many ordinary Americans looking at gold as a safe store of value.  However, there's another commodity that historically has risen in price along with gold - and is potentially more useful in the event of a global crisis: Ammunition.


Some of the fear-based psychological reasons for gold's popularity in times of economic crisis appear to be similar to the reasons cited for purchasing guns and ammunition.  Michael Thompson, a small business owner from Virginia, had this to say about why he recently purchased 2,000 rounds of 223 ammunition to go with his growing collection of AR-15 assault rifles: "Since ARs are so well-known & widespread, quality ones don't really go down in value.  I don't trust what's going on in Washington and a reliable firearm that'll hold it's value plus ammo that I can always re-sell later if I don't use it up seems like as safe a place as any to put my money in these uncertain times."


One prominent factor which customers at cite as one of their primary reasons for stocking up on guns & ammo now is the uncertainty surrounding U.S. firearm regulations.  Many wonder if President Obama's official position on firearm regulation will change if he wins a second term. Others point to recent actions taken by President Obama's appointees in the EPA and the Department of Justice, citing the EPA's recently proposed ban on lead ammunition due to health concerns about the lead seeping into ground water supplies and the on-going debacle surrounding the Deparment of Justice's failed Fast & Furious sting operation.  Several states have also enacted anti-gun legislation recently, such as California expanding their controversial gun registry to now include purchasers of new rifles and shotguns.


Dustin Ramsey, a 28 year old self-proclaimed "realist" from Tennessee who says hunting and fishing are two of his favorite outdoor activities, counts the 5,000 rounds of 9mm ammunition he keeps on-hand as one of his investments along with gold coins: "I'm a hunter so I know I can use my guns & ammo to feed my family if something happens to our usual food supply and there's a run at our grocery store. Plus, it seems like somebody on Wall Street is always getting bailed out nowadays and my faith in the stock market has been gone for a long time. Look, I've seen what happens when times get tough and I figure I can always barter a popular caliber like 9mm for other supplies like I would with gold if push comes to shove. And if a crisis never materializes where I need my stash of ammo, I still love to shoot so those bullets won't go to waste. Given the uncertainty in our world, ammunition seems more practical to me than gold, whether there's an economic crisis or not."


Whatever their reason, Americans are purchasing firearms and ammunition in record numbers.  USA Today recently reported that the FBI experienced on Black Friday their single largest number of background check requests ever in a single day, smashing the previous record by 32%.  Background check requests are processed by the FBI according to federal law.  Gallop also reported that gun ownership is at an 18 year high, with 47% of Americans admitting to Gallop they own a gun.  These statistics coupled with customer feedback at indicate more Americans are taking advantage of their constitutional right to own a firearm - and are arming up in increasing large numbers.


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Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:18 | 2005132 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

No. But that did invent the Internet. "My God! Everyone is using it! And they tell people who they killed that day on it!" Thank God someone is in charge of that thing.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:59 | 2005445 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

does that "kevlar underwear" also "protect the nads" of those using their cases of depleted uranium tipped-weaponry as seating when riding in their military machines?

thought not.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:56 | 2005267's picture

Just use standard Level III body armor with chicken pot pie inserts.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:13 | 2005494 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

not sure why most here continue to ignore the biowarfare side of the MIC, given that it's advancing to doomsday status pretty rapidly.

If a no-kidding battle were to break out between an armed town of civilians and the military

IF a small town were under siege by "the military" you can rest assured a few passes from a low flying aircraft spraying whatever toxic soup they wanted to "observe the results" of, like the good little sociopaths they are, would sort said town of "resisters" out with relatively little effort or expense on their part.

remember "saddam and the kurds"?  since then every NATO country is aerosoled, daily.  that's pretty amazing coverage, with ZERO mention by most, be it govt. or "news" etc. - it's left to the blogs to report these things, individuals who observe, and want answers.

with the latest "bird flu plague" discovery by the freak who also specialised in HIV research - do the math folks!  that's what you love, the maths, right?

Sun, 12/25/2011 - 21:34 | 2010877's picture

Right. We're winning in Afghanistan with germ warfare. Oh. wait a minute, we're not. But it's more likely that the US would use germ warfare in the US because then the troops could know that they're indiscriminately killing Americans including their friends and family. Oh wait, that doesn't seem to follow either.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:35 | 2004963 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture


Give me a break with the DARPA shit.  That is a black hole where dollars go to die, all the military advances come from the large defense contractors who have Generals on their payroll and engineers that actually design and produce a product.  My God, you think a marginalized Army thinktank that dreams up fairy tales actually produces cutting edge deployable technology?  Please stick to something you understand.  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:20 | 2005141 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

It's called "http". The "p" stands for protocol.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:00 | 2005282's picture

Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, OM, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA (born 8 June 1955[1]), also known as "TimBL", is a British computer scientist, MIT professor and the inventor of the World Wide Web. He made a proposal for an information management system in March 1989[2] and on 25 December 1990, with the help of Robert Cailliau and a young student at CERN, he implemented the first successful communication between a Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) client and server via the Internet.[3]

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:24 | 2006151 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

he created a "protocol"--one which everyone now uses. Tell me something...what does the word "protocol" mean? I define it as "a military term for addressing one's superior." In other words "i just don't go up to the guy with all that shiny stuff and say what's up brother." I speak to the General with "an appropriate connoting respect." For example "i salute him." I would regard such a thing as a "protocol" as a universal form of communication (we all are using it here of course) as potentially very important and potentially dangerous--for example "there is a lack of protocol in Mr. Berners-Lee protocol." So while i agree "he made a proposal for an information management system in march 1989" your only reference is to a government organization called CERN. Interestingly I heard he had created this "protocol" because he enjoyed computer games and wanted to create a system whereby "gamers" could communicate with each other. He probably "didn't even know what he was doing when he did it" when he invented it. I could be wrong of course. More importantly YOU have invented the World Wide Web my friend. I am not joking either when i say "keep participating." People talking to each other is the first step towards conflict resolution.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:30 | 2005184 pupton
pupton's picture

I am quite familiar with:

and in particular:

The shit they are working on would blow your mind.

They are developing technologies that seem on the surface to be impossible, but could add tremendously to military capability.  Of course, most ideas never make it past the embryonic/seedling phase, but some are successful.  These projects are not just a "black hole" for money.  Where do you guys think the "internet" was developed?  (Hint: it wasn't Al Gore's basement) Stealth?  And probably lots of stuff we don't even know about yet...I'd say the Military gets more bang for their buck out of DARPA than almost anything else when you look at the capabilities they have achieved.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:45 | 2005236 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Part of my resume: Director Of Technology Strategy for United Tecnologies (UTX). If you know who they are...

I might have forgotten more than you'll ever know about DARPA programs and high technology in general.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:44 | 2005620 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

ORI is not stupid.

He's just urban.

In his culture, from what he can see -- it makes sense to say "The feds will always have overwhelmingly better weapons than the people do."

Come to the New World, ORI.



Fri, 12/23/2011 - 16:40 | 2008180 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture


Old Regional Indian says: Dude, just google G20 protest, microwave crowd control.


Or just google Darpa Microwave beam Weapon+crowd control

Educate yourself.



I have a Master's in Engineer and expertise in electromagnetics. This weapon is easy to defeat. 

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 16:59 | 2008228 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Francis: "I have a Master's in Engineer and expertise in electromagnetics. This weapon is easy to defeat."

Morpheus: "Show Me"

Spell it out then. Links. Whatever.
While you are at do you hide from thermal cams?
What material is used?



Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:08 | 2006004 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

People still hold those weapons and joysticks.  Those people can still bleed out.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:37 | 2004689 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture



Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:43 | 2004714 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

"Guns make you stupid, not safe. They give you a false sense of power. To beat the real threat, you have to think waaaaay outside the box."

As an individual defense against a military or swat team coming after you, civilian weapons will be useless. But armed with the element of surprise and prior planning they can go a long way toward upsetting an already unstable federal apple cart, especially if one or more attackers are smart enough to bypass the police and military and focus on the real targets.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:57 | 2004794 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

dude, the military has whole complexes under -ground; nuclear weapons, and drones to kill you from the sky. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:09 | 2005315's picture

If you were in the military and were ordered to attack civilians would you not consider the possibility that your family back home was also in danger of being attacked? How many troops would high-tail it back home to help defend their children, wives, parents, siblings and friends?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:46 | 2005409 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i'd kill'm all except the hot bitches. you're not really thinking like an 18 year old brain washed kid.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:51 | 2005419 lemonobrien
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:43 | 2005619's picture

You're not thinking at all.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:03 | 2005692 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i have a "liberated" mind.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:25 | 2005902 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Before the wall fell in Germany, General Jarazelski was running Poland.  He was under pressure to use the Polish army against the people.  Jarazelski knew the Polish army would always side with the public.  He quickly realized that was not an option. 

I do not feel that confident about America.  The unionized cops, fireman, fed agents, etc etc want to keep their perks.  They will shoot you in a heartbeat.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:45 | 2006197 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Exactly. The moral automatons who comprise the US' police forces routinely use violence against people who are doing nothing but smoking or injecting the 'wrong' kind of plant. How often do their fellow sheep complain if someone is locked in a cage for years for some act that brings harm to no one?

Can you see this crop of Americans resisting the governemnt? Shit, because they can vote, they think they are the government!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:55 | 2004782 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Sure, you can't beat "them" when they are sending heavy weapons for YOU specifically.  But it's not hard to shoot someone who is off duty.  Or to blow up an ammunition factory.  Or to kill a couple of oil pipeline guards, then blow the line.  Or blow up five bridges to cut the country in half.  Etc etc.

I don't know why you think that anything less than anti-tank guns are worth having.

The real point of having guns is that military guys recognize the impossibility of occupying an armed populace.  A rifle behind every blade of grass means that the occupying forces have to live in their tanks, and all their supply lines have to be armored and protected.  This is impossible outside of a few urban areas.  In a country the size of the US?  Fagitaboutit.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:26 | 2005167 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

"The fiercest serpent may be overcome by a swarm of ants." 

Yamamoto Isoroku
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:34 | 2006048 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

This is one of the reasons that the govt. is gathering data about us.  Do you think this site is not monitored?  I think you may be roughly aware of the size of the NSA's budget?  Why do you think the Feds need to print all that money?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:18 | 2004895 H Reardon
H Reardon's picture

So, ORI your comments seem to say "If slavery and tyranny is inevitable, relax and enjoy it". That kind of thinking just isn't very American. I realize India has demonstrated how EXEPTIONAL it is many, many times, but that kind of attitude doesn't sit well with Americans.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:30 | 2004950 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

If you really read the comment, first one, I said preperation needs to be waaaaay outside the box.

I train my whole self, not just my trigger finger. Nothign about lyign back and enjoying it.

More like learn to create your own Capuera. Before. Not during. see?


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:42 | 2005005 H Reardon
H Reardon's picture

All your spiritual hokus pokus is just fine with me. But don't forget an old Amerikan proverb: power flows out of the end of a gun barrel, no matter how small the barrel.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:09 | 2005110 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You are thinking of Mao.

"Political power flows out of the barrel of a gun."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:38 | 2005208 H Reardon
H Reardon's picture

Yes, ofcourse.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:41 | 2005221 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

I thought it was from Chairman mao's Red book.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:32 | 2005923 Freddie
Freddie's picture

With all due respect my friend - we have a population totally brainwashed 24x7 by TV.  The oligarchs have endless contingency plans.  See Civil War 1.  The fight to end slavery - yeah right.  It had little to do with ending slavery.

How many hundreds of thousands died for nothing?  It was for northern/european bankers could grab the wealth of the south.

My guess is they will try to pit some group against another.  The people are so passive in the uSA.  As long as they keep getting free stuff.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:36 | 2006178 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

what "wealth"? The South was totally destroyed by the Civil War. There was barely a tree left standing in Virginia when it was done. Amazingly "World War I" followed that. And even more amazingly "World War II"! I think i hear ya and see where you're coming from kiddo, but the Civil War was not fought "so the bankers could get all sorts of free stuff." It has been said of the Civil War that "family feuds are always the bloddiest." But as i just said and as actually happened "Europe followed up the Civil War with World War I and World War II." I find it interesting that "Europeans wanted to create a Union" after those conflicts. Perhaps if the goal was to create a more just a peaceful place instead with for example a "greater reverence for the rule of law" instead of "rule of the lawless"? Anywho...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:37 | 2004982 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Tell that to the perhaps ~25,000 Afghan and Pakastani combatants that have succeeded in pinning down ~$70B of high-tech US military expenditures per year.  On average costing more than ~$10M each to remove from the battlefield.  And I could argue they do not have ideal foilage for an insurgency.  Further, the way they treat their women probably makes them easier to be seen as an unsympathetic enemy by the US military.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:53 | 2005424 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

if we was serious, we'd just kill them all... release a deadly bio/virus; after the country has been isolated.


no people no war.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:26 | 2005557 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"they" are serious, always have been. . .

folk should research biowarfare, and dig deep - here's a relatively easy site to get you started:

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:01 | 2005239 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

"Guns make you stupid, not safe. They give you a false sense of power. To beat the real threat, you have to think waaaaay outside the box."


"If you have to fire a shot, you've already lost." - Me

I'm sure I stole that subconciously from somewhere.

The master soldiers have a saying:
I dare not be the host but prefer to be the guest.
I dare not advance an inch but prefer to retreat a foot.

This is called marching without moving,
rolling up a sleeve without baring an arm,
capturing a foe without a battlefront,
arming yourself without weapons.

There is no disaster greater than attacking and finding no enemy.
Doing so will cost you your treasure.
Thus it is that when opposing forces meet,
victory will go to those who take no delight in the situation.


In Aikido, so I've heard...the idea is that if you attack are actually going against the "wishes" of the universe basically (You have already lost etc.) When you defend, you are showing the attacker the error of their ways. And are completely "in the right".

Ponder that my fellow Americans (and humans!).



Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:30 | 2005570 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

excellent post! 

the most important "prep" is your mind. . .

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:39 | 2006184 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture


Fri, 12/23/2011 - 03:00 | 2006568 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

In Aikido, so I've heard...the idea is that if you attack are actually going against the "wishes" of the universe basically (You have already lost etc.) When you defend, you are showing the attacker the error of their ways. And are completely "in the right".

This is actually confirmed in "game theory".  After thousands of computer simulations (I think at McGill University in Canada) of opposing sides initiating or responding to conflicts, the one strategy that wins most is where A. You do not attack first, but B. Once attacked, never fail to respond to the attack.  This is probably why deep down everybody wants to think that they are justified in starting the fight -"I didn't start it, he did, I'm just responding to his aggression."

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 17:19 | 2008266 KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Very cool.


On another related note...

I love how the media continually trots out "valid reasons" for the "war" against Iraq etc.
It's like mass psychological programming for the US public. To make them feel "ok" with conflict.

There is actually no "universal" justification for these movements of our troops. None.
The US govt. is relentlessly attacking and cannot ever actually be "right".
Wrong moves are being made continually with odd (sick?) motivations.
This shows you the mentality of those making the moves.
Stop making the wrong moves...and get into being actually right.

Going against "the universe" has repercussions. And always turns out badly.

This goes for China, Russia and all the other anti-human governments out there too.
Lots of whirlwind reaping coming up shortly.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:03 | 2005295 Franktastic
Franktastic's picture

Most wars are won with small fire arms....

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:37 | 2005766 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

"Guns make you stupid, not safe. They give you a false sense of power. To beat the real threat, you have to think waaaaay outside the box."


You got lots of red arrows for that,ORI; thanks for having the balls to write it.

Americans are putting waaaay too much faith in their guns. All those guns out there are far more likely to turn mere chaos into bloody chaos, neighbor firing at neighbor, than to offer protection against "the bad guys".

The constitutional "right to bear arms" had originally something to do with ordinary Joe being equal to a gentleman, who used to have a monopoly on bearing arms as a civilian.

The idea that private guns or even private militias are a match to night-raiding troopers, drones and helicopter gunships is laughable.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:41 | 2006190 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

That is certainly true, but only if they know where you are and they attack first.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 23:26 | 2006294 Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

They know from their databases where the "troublemakers" are. They will attack first, to disarm all who refuse to hand in their weapons, after martial law has made them illegal.

Don't you see it? The temptation to hang on to your weapons will be huge. It will turn all these good citizens into lawbreakers overnight. Exactly what they need to let everybody live in fear. This is the way all police states maintain "order".

ORI is right that guns make you stupid. Like the military, you start thinking that all problems can be solved with the force of arms.

Sat, 12/24/2011 - 00:15 | 2006573 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Not all problems can be solved by force of arms, but there are a lot of innocent people now pushing up dasies who would have been well served by being armed.  Guns are tools, and don't mean much without the right attitude and toughness of mind. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:42 | 2005782 balanced
balanced's picture

I agree ORI, no rebels/insurgents with small arms have ever been able to fend off an army with superior weaponry. Oh wait.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:41 | 2006191 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

How come only ORI only says he agrees with me...DV...and not any of rest of you? I feel hurt here people. Show me a little love...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:02 | 2005843 kinganuthin
kinganuthin's picture

So youre going to protect a micro dish with a .177?  Great.  Do you know how the Colonials got cannons since they were not being manufactured in the 13 colonies? 
Seeing how long it took the governemnt to deal with Goat herders, I aint worried.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:10 | 2004558 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Best deals I find are (free shipping) and  Also, has a good selection and price on incendiary, tracer, etc, and they're good people.  I've dealt with Ammunitiontogo quite a bit, and they're easy to work with as well.  I'll pick up a box every now and then at Cabelas, but only because I'm driving by, plus tax and prices aren't all that good, but your mileage may vary.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:52 | 2004981 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Thumbs up for ammunitiontogo. They also have the best selection of "specialty" ammo, although if you didn't stock up on the really good stuff (wink, wink) a year or so ago then you will have to settle for the novelties; which are cool but impractical for realistic defense purposes. They also nearly always have the best price on milspec .223 ammo, such as the ever so popular SS109.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:15 | 2004590 sessinpo
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:23 | 2004625 WarriorClass
WarriorClass's picture

$299- 1,000 Rounds.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:26 | 2004642 EvlTheCat
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:31 | 2004664 pupton
pupton's picture

I have found to usually be the best online source if you're buying buy the case:

Occassionally they have a really nice clearance sale on my ammo.  I picked up a case of the TAP Personal Defense linked above for $15 and change a box about two weeks ago.  Now it looks like it's $17+

Stock up now.  They will not get any cheaper, or easier to get than they are today.  And you may not yet be on some watch list for buying in bulk today.  I believe shelf life if properly stored +plus utility = barter and resale and inflation hedge value later.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:41 | 2004705 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

Wolf Classic Military (Russian made) .223 are dirt cheap and very decent ammo. 1000 rounds for around $200 online, some with free shipping. My AK eats them like candy. Over 750 rounds so far without a single misfire or jam.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:43 | 2004717 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Palmetto State Armory has XM193 for $5.49/20

You're not going to find it any cheaper...  even from wholesalers.  Enjoy.

Just be sure you have the right chambered gun for 5.56 ;)

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:48 | 2005025 Agent P
Agent P's picture

That's a great price.  Thanks for the link.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:22 | 2005148 chunga
chunga's picture

Timing of this post is too funny. Just got back from the local shop. 1,000 rds XM193 to add to the stack. AKs eat anything but I like XM193.

This place here is great. Loose pack 0f 1,000 62 gr. M855 green tips at $329

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:58 | 2004801 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Try ammoman or cheaperthandirt web sites.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:13 | 2004877 hivekiller
hivekiller's picture

Cheaper than Dirt

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:33 | 2004964 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

also try


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:16 | 2005337 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

"Who has good deals on some .223?"

@ iDealMeat, Go with the PMC.  Use it all the time, great value.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 19:14 | 2005717 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Ammo to go

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 21:29 | 2006037 joshua10
Fri, 12/23/2011 - 00:50 | 2006462 Real Money Wins
Real Money Wins's picture

Online Site "Cheaper than Dirt"

2000 rounds on 5.56 Nato/.223 rounds for $632.00

1000 Rounds of .223 Remington for $309.79

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:01 | 2005072 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004421 ratso
ratso's picture

No logic and a great deal of ignorance.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | 2004450 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Thoughts for the Day:

“I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts.” - Will Rogers (as tweeted by ZH)

“An armed society is a polite society.” – writer Robert Heinlein

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:55 | 2004479 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

If the Brits had guns those riots wouldn't have lasted so long.  Intstead of chasing the looters around with bats, the looters would have stayed in the streets.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:05 | 2004524 Manthong
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:39 | 2004697 clymer
clymer's picture

Ratso you would appear to like collecting red down mods

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:48 | 2005413 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Well, Ratso said the diarist was trading on racism. So he deserves red down mods.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:05 | 2004516 strannick
strannick's picture

"No logic and a good deal of ignorance."

 Sounds like the academic ivory tower that spawns the bloated bureaucracies and corrupt political mileau that Obama thrives in, and Ron Paul wants to abolish. Unfortunately for America, the Goldman Sachs and JPMorgans wont be as ready to shell out millions for the Paul campaign as they did and will do for lackey Obama

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:12 | 2004571 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I hear "the CIA has gone from Cubicle Country to a more Open Space design" as well.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:43 | 2006193 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

why all the negativity here? that was joke people!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:12 | 2004573 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

If every Jewish and anti-Nazi family in Germany had possessed a Mauser rifle, twenty rounds AND THE WILL TO USE IT, Adolf Hitler would have been an obscure footnote to the history of the Weimar Republic. -- Aaron Zelman. (Founder Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership)

Nuff said I think...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:22 | 2004615 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Wow. That guy has a deep sociological understanding.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:47 | 2004699 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



If every Jewish and anti-Nazi family in Germany had possessed a Mauser rifle, twenty rounds AND THE WILL TO USE IT...

See Switzerland.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:54 | 2004769 aerojet
aerojet's picture

Maybe, maybe not.  The Swiss were really lucky.  That, and the Nazis sent a lot of gold there to be kept safe by all those big mountains.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:31 | 2005190 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Nobody messes with the bankers. lol

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:37 | 2005383 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture

Hedgeless is correct. The Swiss do not rely on good luck, they depend on good planning, and make the best use of their terrain.

Every male citizen is a soldier, even some of the women.
For generations, they have taxed themselves to provide the best Civil Defense on the planet. Their Republic has lasted more than 720 years, and they seem determined to keep it.

A very good example for the U.S. to follow.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:55 | 2006220 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Unfortunately... the Swiss have been hollowed out from within. When their bigger banks went multi-national, they were then subject to the threats of the anglo bankers. Hence the endless raft of reports of more and more data sharing agreements with the US.

Switzerland is probably not much more of a safe haven than... Belgium.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:58 | 2004802 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

That's why the cheese of the swiss has so many holes in it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:45 | 2006199 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

really? I'll believe anything if it makes me laugh!

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:27 | 2005365 squidward
squidward's picture

The Swiss also have bombshelters and food storage for all citizens.  They have made themselves too costly to invade in a conventional war with a fraction of the military spending as a % of GDP.  Several million dug-in alpen snipers makes for a formatable foe.  And while we spend billions on overpriced weapons systems their citizens have places to hide in case of a nuclear meltdown.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 18:36 | 2005591 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

and yet, the lovely Alps & their inhabitants are not immune to the global spraying:

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:55 | 2005044 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:32 | 2004666 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

The Weimar government banned private ownership and pretty much anyone found owning a weapon during all of the street fighting in the early 20's was summarily shot by both Communists and Freikorps alike. 

Nobody really wanted private weapon ownership in Germany.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:43 | 2005013 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

That is really a stupid comment.  It's like saying if I had only known the light at the end of the tunnel was a train, I would have gotten out of the way.  

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:56 | 2005055 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Knowing the chances of it being a train could prove helpful.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:10 | 2004862 WTFx10
WTFx10's picture

The same thing the government wants most of us to ignore.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:26 | 2005163 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

You can't eat ammo.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:23 | 2005355's picture

It can be force fed.

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 00:07 | 2006379 Cistercian
Cistercian's picture

But ammo will provide food in the right hands.Turkey, deer, rabbit, etc.My grandfathers fed the family and friends by hunting in the last depression.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:34 | 2004355 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Racism? How's that?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | 2004466 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

@econ1996  FROM YOUR LINK:

Why Most Serial Killers Are White Men
Buried beneath mounds of sociological data, certain quantities hole up waiting to be unearthed. Requiring a bit of digging to expose, La Griffe, with analytical shovel in hand, reveals the criminality distributions for white, black and Hispanic men. From these he proposes two recipes for reducing the black-to-white incarceration ratio. Volume 9, Number 2, May 2007

I suppose that it's Obama's caucasian ancestry that predisposes him to his own particular brand of mass murder and genocide.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:14 | 2004585 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"I just give 'em name, rank and serial number."

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:47 | 2006203 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

why would that get an up arrow? that is definitely NOT funny. I did hear it at a bar though and it made laugh.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:22 | 2004617 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

You've got to be kidding.  If there is a "racism" issue with regard to murder, it is the sedulously unreported race war going on for decades, resulting in huge imbalances of violent race crime, to wit: blacks are overwhelmingly more likely to assault, murder and rape whites than vice-versa. 


Either you know this already and are just flinging dust in everyone's eyes, or you are ignorant of basics and wasting our time with irrelevancies.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:53 | 2004765 MobBarley
MobBarley's picture

The prisons are full of black men who have commited multiple homocides.

The appelation 'serial killer' was invented by some Judith psychology major afraid of her ex husband.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:25 | 2005359's picture

Ron Paul says that the US justice system unfairly targets blacks.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:59 | 2005276 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Obama is a pussy.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 20:48 | 2005954 navy62802
navy62802's picture

So, answer me this. Is it racist to own guns and purchase gold?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:44 | 2004401 Badabing
Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:12 | 2004569 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

In most states, yes.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:16 | 2004592 Badabing
Badabing's picture

Cool Thanx

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:41 | 2004703 X. Kurt OSis
X. Kurt OSis's picture

Not in my stupid state.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:07 | 2005310 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Time to move out of California. I don't care if the weather is nice.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | 2004460 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Racisim, not racism.

Must be a raci simulator or something.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:12 | 2004564 scratch_en_sniff
scratch_en_sniff's picture

ouch, it always helps to be correct when pontificating mosley. Jesus Christ, sort it out.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:18 | 2004891 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Helps even more to understand the difference between "pontification" and "sardonic humor".  I was pointing out that the guy couldn't even spell racism by positing a premise where he used the correct spelling of a word that didn't exist.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:29 | 2004945 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

You know it's raysiss

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:11 | 2005115 scratch_en_sniff
scratch_en_sniff's picture

Stop talking out of your hole.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:51 | 2005257 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You mad, homey?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:39 | 2004364 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



 The development and manifestations of a very polite new society......................

"How much for the mocha latte?"

"That'll be four .45 ACP, two 9MM, and one 00 12 gauge."

"Hmmmmm.   Do you have change for a .30-06 by any chance?"

"Sure, no prob.   Do you mind .22lr's?"

"That's fine.  Hollowpoints would be great, thanks."


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:40 | 2004383 duo
duo's picture

ammo has 3 of the 4 criteria for money, per Aristotle.  The only thing ammo ISN'T, is divisible.

Compact, consistent (if not fired), and durable

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004412 Momauguin Joe
Momauguin Joe's picture

A case of ammo is divisible into boxes of ammo. A box is further divisible into individual rounds. One box equals 20 rounds of .223 or 50 rounds of 9mm, etc...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:42 | 2004709 boattrash
boattrash's picture

He's thinking of Barney in Mayberry, only being issued one bullet.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:04 | 2005301 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Most rounds can be fragmented even smaller with the right target and delivery velocity.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:50 | 2004415 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

[A]mmo has 3 of the 4 criteria for money, per Aristotle.  The only thing ammo ISN'T, is divisible.

Thus why PM trumps guns, however marginally.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:47 | 2004419 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Its not gonna' work as money.  Its too easy to make empty cartridges and you don't know till it doesn't fire. I've loaded thousands of rounds and if its done properly, which is easy, an empty cartridge cannot be distinguished from one with powder.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:49 | 2004427 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Maybe reloading supplies would serve, but so would chocolate, antibiotics, and toilet paper. Commodities are commodities are commodities.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:53 | 2004469 Momauguin Joe
Momauguin Joe's picture

Regarding the problems with reloads, this is all the more reason for factory loaded ammo to command premium value for trade or barter.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:16 | 2004594 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Reloaders can often make better, more accurate, and more powerful  ammo then the majority of factory rounds.  If I were out of powder and primers Id rather have a box of rifle ammo from a decent reloader then factory.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:48 | 2004742 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Absolutely, hand loads or factory rounds will remove the back of a head equally, but the hand loads will take out the eye first.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:52 | 2005420 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

Hand loads from an experienced loader are always preferable. I've worn out a chrony testing both my stuff and factory stuff, and mine is better. Period. Moreover, I can polish the brass and a rube won't know it is not a factory load. Ammo will never be currency. It might be a decent store of wealth, but it will never be a good currency.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:48 | 2005248 Fedaykinx
Fedaykinx's picture

pick random round, put it into bullet puller, whack it, look inside.  or just attempt to fire it, i suppose.


i highly recommend having a press and dies for the caliber of weapons you possess.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:49 | 2004745 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

um...  doesn't the powder have mass?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:54 | 2005427 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

I loaded a bunch of 9 mm last night with 4 grains of powder each.

Go pick up something that weighs 4 grains.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:55 | 2004774 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

If you have a powder scale, a .223 squib round will be about 20gr light.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:55 | 2004779 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You could fill the cases with sand...

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 16:19 | 2005133 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Since I don't do compressed loads, of course I can tell if there's powder in a cartridge.  Shake it, maybe by your ear.  Duh.  Why would anyone not look at the primer to see if there's a dent?  Primers are so cheap it's hard to imagine a cheaper source of fakes.  If it's got brass and a bullet - that's most of the cost anyway already.  I don't get that line of reasoning.  You didn't think the gunpowder was the expensive part, did you?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 17:59 | 2005448 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

You're right that empty rounds are not much cheaper than loaded ones, but if a banker-type personality can pass off empty rounds, they'll do so. Moreover, the gov't will make the competing "currency" worthless by passing around millions of empty rounds. Its not a secure medium. It can't be as its manufactured just like dollars. Gold and silver are just about the only fair mediums of exchange that i can see. Give me another.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 15:46 | 2005022 jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Don't forget readily recognizable and accepted around the World

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:17 | 2004597 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Sounds expensive. Plus it weighs on the pocket. I just give 'em cash. And some change if I have it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:28 | 2004649 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

During extreme situations such as hyperinflation, we only need reference history.  Germany is a notable example.  For those who served in the US military in Germany, we all remember getting our ration cards to buy booze and cigarettes.  The ration cards were instituted originally because during the occupation packs of cigarettes and Jack Daniels were used as a medium exchange.  Also, the price of these goods on the "economy" were higher than US soldiers could buy them for at the PX and Commisary, hence the ration cards.  After the East fell, there was another brief spell of the same thing.  I remember a story about cans of sardines also being used as currency, and some fellow opening the can, which had gone bad.  He thought it ironic, because it wasn't about the value of the can, but that it was serving as a quasi currency, and he would have been better off not opening it, and to use it for trade.

Funny things happen when currencies break down and go away, until another currency is accepted by the society.  Cigarettes are hoarded by people who never smoked, bottles of whiskey buy safe passage and warmth.  To think otherwise flies in the face of evidence and memory of history.  Ammunition is just another one of those products.  It's pretty shelf stable - I've shot ammo from the world war, the first one 10 years ago or so, and it was fine. 

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:58 | 2004799 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Can "trust" be a currency then? "someone you confide in"? I've been told "that's one of the most powerful currencies in the world"...yet I cannot find a place to buy it.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:49 | 2004747 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

That thar's funny, I dun't care who you are.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 22:51 | 2006210 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

there does indeed seem to be a "lakc of protocol" with the HTT Protocol this evening. I think we might be setting a record for viewership people! GREAT JOB!

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:18 | 2006901 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

In the future, the 22 long will be the new currency. 

Fri, 12/23/2011 - 10:58 | 2006981 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

Hard to fake a .22 round (or any other rimfire).

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:38 | 2004375 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

You can make a case for the fear and paranoia but racism?

WTF M_D_B...oh, wait...ratso.

Scuez me while I cling to my guns and religion...and gold...and 50 gallon drum of gasoline...and generator...and 20 sacks of flower, sugar, beans, pasta, salt, chicken and beef boullion, dried mushrooms, spices, yeast, and maryjane production facility and wait for Mars to attack.

Yeah, I said Mars.


Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:43 | 2004398 divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Holder is playing the race card with critics of his deadly "Fast and Furious" failed gun control initiative, so why not?

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 13:51 | 2004444 GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

Only free men are armed.

Thu, 12/22/2011 - 14:19 | 2004606 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

And something tells me "the Bible isn't part of the GOSPLAN" either.

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